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  #901  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Trump "reality":

Donald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTrump

Many countries in NATO, which we are expected to defend, are not only short of their current commitment of 2% (which is low), but are also delinquent for many years in payments that have not been made. Will they reimburse the U.S.?

Actual reality:

Peter Baker
‏@peterbakernyt

Once again, Trump has this wrong. The 2% spending target is not a current commitment but a goal set for 2024, still six years away. No one is "delinquent" or owes the US any payments.
The really real reality:

Europe has had the luxury of the US nuclear umbrella and overwhelming conventional forces for seven decades now. As a result, the rich Euro nations (Germany, France, Nordic) have abrogated their military responsibilities in favor of a radical expansion of the nanny state.

Leftists want to point to Euro democratic socialism as a model for the US. Won’t work, somebody has to be the adult and secure the nice house we all live in.
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  #902  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:50 PM
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The one and only time that NATO has invoked Article 5 of their charter is...wait for it...wait for it:

September 11, 2001

When NATO scrambled to the defense of our nation while it was under attack.
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  #903  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:41 PM
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Democrats Flip on NATO Stance Because Trump Is President

Hillarious. The Democrats have been against NATO and US troops in Europe since WWII. They wanted the money to be spent elsewhere saying we were paying too much for NATO. They thought our military presence there was instigating. Now the Democrats, since Trump is president, have reversed their stance.
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  #904  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:19 PM
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True, but....

Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
The really real reality:

Europe has had the luxury of the US nuclear umbrella and overwhelming conventional forces for seven decades now. As a result, the rich Euro nations (Germany, France, Nordic) have abrogated their military responsibilities in favor of a radical expansion of the nanny state.Leftists want to point to Euro democratic socialism as a model for the US. Won’t work, somebody has to be the adult and secure the nice house we all live in.
True, the President has all the facts on his side. But in no way does that guarantee that his/our point of view will prevail if the President delivers the message in a way that is insulting and offensive to our allies. Which is exactly what he's doing. The message is lost entirely because of Trump's rude, boorish delivery. The man exhibits no common sense. For that reason his message will be largely ignored.

If we expect allied leaders to head Trump's directives re NATO commitments, for example, they (leaders) must have their people behind them because meeting defense goals will be costly. The fact is that President Trump is despised in allied countries both in North America and in Europe. Indeed, there is great concern in the UK about his visit.

Just think about what I'm saying Trumpsters. The situation is this: The U.S. position re NATO is correct and delivering the message forcefully is long overdue. Credit President Trump. But the President's delivery of the message is so juvenile and offensive that everyone is furious with him (and us) to the point that the message will be largely ignored while the focus will be almost entirely on what a complete j@ckass the U.S. president is...and it's best that he be just ignored.

How's that scenario sound to you? Any Trumpster that thinks the President can keep up his act and expect to succeed with his important international objectives is delusional. Our allies, whose support we need in many areas, simply won't tolerate being treated badly.
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  #905  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:25 PM
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NATO countries are already paying more because of Trump. Trump stated the facts clearly. If you think that is rude, then you agree with our past whimps who did nothing about our trade imbalance and let our NATO allies pay little to our paying a lot. The truth sometimes hurts. We protect Germany - the Germany who is building a pipeline for Russia energy. Who is the fool here?
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  #906  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
But in no way does that guarantee that his/our point of view will prevail if the President delivers the message in a way that is insulting and offensive to our allies. Which is exactly what he's doing. The message is lost entirely because of Trump's rude, boorish delivery. The man exhibits no common sense. For that reason his message will be largely ignored.
This continuing and tiring type of narrative is what's really boorish. What has gotten us to this point is years and years of Presidents and US leaders being passive and "presidential,' permitting other NATO members to take advantage of us over and over again. The way the President is currently delivering his message is the only way things are going to change, which it looks like already has.

NATO leaders pledged their “unwavering commitment” to boost defense spending on Wednesday, following stern words from President Trump criticizing European leaders for spending too little.

The U.S. and European allies signed a declaration stating they are “committed to improving the balance of sharing the costs and responsibilities of alliance membership.”

The declaration comes after confrontational and testy discussions between Trump and other NATO leaders.
www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/11/trump-tangles-with-nato-leaders-in-testy-start-to-brussels-summit.html
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  #907  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Any Trumpster that thinks the President can keep up his act and expect to succeed with his important international objectives is delusional. Our allies, whose support we need in many areas, simply won't tolerate being treated badly.
He's not only going to keep up his "act," but he is also going to continue to succeed at every step he takes, which is what's best for America. It's too bad that the rabid anti-Trumpsters are so blind and delusional from the hatred of the man, that they are simply unable to comprehend reality from their nonsensical narratives.
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  #908  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
NATO countries are already paying more because of Trump. Trump stated the facts clearly. If you think that is rude, then you agree with our past whimps who did nothing about our trade imbalance and let our NATO allies pay little to our paying a lot. The truth sometimes hurts. We protect Germany - the Germany who is building a pipeline for Russia energy. Who is the fool here?
It boils down to common sense and having the intestinal fortitude to confront problems with honesty. If confronting other countries about shouldering their fair load is defined as "Treating them badly", you will never get anything done.

At every turn, UAC, Trump's direct approach to problem solving has frightened and concerned you.............until it bears fruit.

Having an open border whee we foot the bill for all the legal jibber-jabber and release illegals into the country for years (and then they don't show up to court) does not make any sense. Everyone knows it. Trump keeps hammering on it because it is a real problem that the Swamp is not eager to confront. Eventually, he will force the system to confront it's own ineffectiveness by continuing the battle.

Shouldering an inordinate percentage of the cost of NATO (as a percentage of GDP) without similar contributions from other NATO members is a problem that needs to be fixed. Common sense. Fix it. Confront it. European allies may wail and moan, but they know it is right and fair.
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  #909  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:45 PM
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Flat out wrong!

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
NATO countries are already paying more because of Trump. Trump stated the facts clearly. If you think that is rude, then you agree with our past whimps who did nothing about our trade imbalance and let our NATO allies pay little to our paying a lot. The truth sometimes hurts. We protect Germany - the Germany who is building a pipeline for Russia energy. Who is the fool here?
The increases are trivial. Germany is the big dog and is doing very little. You imply that delivering facts clearly requires rude, boorish behavior. You know better.

Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
This continuing and tiring type of narrative is what's really boorish. What has gotten us to this point is years and years of Presidents and US leaders being passive and "presidential,' permitting other NATO members to take advantage of us over and over again. The way the President is currently delivering his message is the only way things are going to change, which it looks like already has.

www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/11/trump-tangles-with-nato-leaders-in-testy-start-to-brussels-summit.html
The message being delivered is the right message...the delivery is 100% counterproductive. If you are a supervisor giving a poorly performing employee a negative review you want him/her to understand the issues, think about the issues and act accordingly. If the review is delivered in an insulting, offensive manner that ridicules the employee how effective do you think the meeting will be.? You guys are old enough to know better. Trump's message can be delivered clearly, forcefully, bluntly...without being rude and offensive

Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
He's not only going to keep up his "act," but he is also going to continue to succeed at every step he takes, which is what's best for America. It's too bad that the rabid anti-Trumpsters are so blind and delusional from the hatred of the man, that they are simply unable to comprehend reality from their nonsensical narratives.
Wishful thinking. Succeed at every step he takes? I hope that is correct. But, for sure, DJT's approach to trade is a huge step and the jury hasn't even convened much less rendered a verdict.

You guys seem to think that doing the right thing requires being rude and boorish. Ronald Reagan is one of the GOP heros...he knew what to do; he spoke clearly and plainly; his leadership resulted in an economic boom and increased military posture that is unprecedented; and he presided over the collapse of the Soviet Union. No screaming, no ridicule, no rude, boorish behavior. Indeed, a more polite, gentile, well-liked man that RR would hard to find. What Trump has so far accomplished isn't even in the same league with Reagan. You do not have to behave like an @sshole to get things done. And defending such behavior is, well....

You guys are comparing DJT with Obama who was surly a wimp. Forget Obama. If you want to make a comparison as regards both accomplishments and real progress look to Ronald Reagan...a polite, dignified gentleman who was liked and respected by allies and adversaries. Gentlemen, having the world dislike the President of the United States is not a good thing...and thinking that you have to behave the way Trump does to succeed is just plain dumb.

You guys know better!
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  #910  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:12 PM
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I wish Trump were more like Reagan (The Great Communicator) but that is not his style. Can he change his style, maybe, but I doubt it.

I like the fact that he is treating our allies like a 34 year old man living in the basement of Uncle Sam. Time to grow up and do your fair share.
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  #911  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Dow up another 100 this morning. Reuters, "Wall Street opened higher on Tuesday, boosted by PepsiCo's strong quarterly results and gains in energy shares." Hmm, no mention of the trade war or Trump.

The Trade War, Global Warming, Brexit, Trump's election, Russian Collusion. Are we seeing a trend here?
Dow currently down 175--does Trump get credit for that too?
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  #912  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Dow currently down 175--does Trump get credit for that too?
One thing we learned from the media and left between 2009-2016, anything negative that happens is 100% the fault of the previous president. Pay attention mr staff reporter
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  #913  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
The one and only time that NATO has invoked Article 5 of their charter is...wait for it...wait for it:

September 11, 2001

When NATO scrambled to the defense of our nation while it was under attack.
Thanks for the history lesson. Noted.

How many Germans went into Afghanistan the folllowing month?
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  #914  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:29 PM
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Eight British Generals/Admirals Defend Trump About NATO

Eight British Generals/Admirals Defend Trump About NATO

https://twitter.com/VeteransBritain/...41926413688832


NATO Secretary General Praises Trump For Leadership — Says He AGREES With Trump On Spending

http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/11/na...y-trump-media/

Trump is more popular than most NATO country leaders (who think they’re better than he is)

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...r-than-is.html
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
The one and only time that NATO has invoked Article 5 of their charter is...wait for it...wait for it:

September 11, 2001

When NATO scrambled to the defense of our nation while it was under attack.
To further buttress my point

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-donald-trump/

Also, Trump chided Germany (and other Euro opportunists) today for inking energy deals with Russia while relying on the US for protection from Russia.

The 34-year old basement dweller is an apt analogy.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
To further buttress my point

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-donald-trump/

Also, Trump chided Germany (and other Euro opportunists) today for inking energy deals with Russia while relying on the US for protection from Russia.

The 34-year old basement dweller is an apt analogy.
Are you telling me that windmills have not made Germany energy independent?
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  #917  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
To further buttress my point

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-donald-trump/

Also, Trump chided Germany (and other Euro opportunists) today for inking energy deals with Russia while relying on the US for protection from Russia.

The 34-year old basement dweller is an apt analogy.
What else is Germany supposed to do? They have no choice, correct?
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
To further buttress my point

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-donald-trump/

Also, Trump chided Germany (and other Euro opportunists) today for inking energy deals with Russia while relying on the US for protection from Russia.

The 34-year old basement dweller is an apt analogy.
Germany has no choice, there is no other affordable option aside from Russia.

https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-russi...mma/a-17529685


https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...d-fossil-fuels:


Despite the Energiewende, Germany remains heavily dependent on imports of fossil fuels, as its domestic resources are largely depleted or extraction too costly.



Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Are you telling me that windmills have not made Germany energy independent?
Actually looks like Germany is making big progress with renewable energy, they are getting 85% of their electricity from renewables, so they are doing what they can to be less energy dependent on foreign countries and fossil fuels.



https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/...e-4b4e17670627

Last edited by ud2; 07-12-2018 at 01:21 AM..
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Thanks for the history lesson. Noted.

How many Germans went into Afghanistan the folllowing month?
Adam Schiff
‏@RepAdamSchiff

NATO came to our defense after we were attacked on 9/11. Its members fought by our side in Afghanistan. NATO has kept the peace in Europe.

The question is not what good is NATO, but what’s wrong with a President that doesn’t recognize its immense value.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:52 AM
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  #921  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Actually looks like Germany is making big progress with renewable energy, they are getting 85% of their electricity from renewables, so they are doing what they can to be less energy dependent on foreign countries and fossil fuels.



https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/...e-4b4e17670627
I read an article about a year ago about the typical energy bill in Germany to cover the costs of windmill construction, etc.

I'm a supporter of green energy sources as long as they are economically viable. I would not be wanting to pay the energy bills that I have read about. I'll have to look for that article.

Edit: Here is something similar:

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...olds-pay-power

Since 1998, prices have risen 32% after inflation adjustment, while the real cost of energy dropped 21% after inflation adjustment. Their "renewables surcharge" is now 23% of their bill.

Last edited by Fudd; 07-12-2018 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:57 AM
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AP reports that French President Macron says Trump didn’t threaten to leave NATO and denied President Donald Trump’s claim that NATO allies have agreed to boost defense spending beyond 2 percent of gross domestic product:

https://apnews.com/9146bbd8220a4af9a...source=Twitter

(You will have to scroll down)

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Old 07-12-2018, 10:05 AM
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
AP reports that French President Macron says Trump didn’t threaten to leave NATO and denied President Donald Trump’s claim that NATO allies have agreed to boost defense spending beyond 2 percent of gross domestic product:(You will have to scroll down)
This sounds like Trump was successful in helping out the USA again!
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:48 AM
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From The Wall Street Journal: Tax Law May Stimulate Economy Less Than Expected, or Maybe Not at All:

https://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2018...conomists-say/

Economists at the Federal Reserve now predict the GOP tax cuts may not boost the economy at all, instead just lavishing corporate shareholders with riches.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:17 AM
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:32 AM
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Trump keeps on Winning. Amazing what can be accomplished when you have a President with balls. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1K135H
Note the NATO Secretary General’s comment-“A clear message from President Trump is having a clear impact”.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:42 AM
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Balls and no brains

Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Trump keeps on Winning. Amazing what can be accomplished when you have a President with balls. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1K135H
Note the NATO Secretary General’s comment-“A clear message from President Trump is having a clear impact”.
The pictures showing the expressions on the faces of the U.S. ambassador to NATO, Sec of State Mike Pompeo and Chief of Staff Jack Kelly as the President blurts out one thing after another at the NATO meeting pretty much say it all. Trump does not consult with nor does he listen to his most senior advisors. When meeting with foreign leaders none of those closest to him know what's going to come out of his mouth.

Trumpsters will say. "Great", just what we need. Not! The issues facing a President, domestic and foreign, are exceedingly complex. The most intelligent, well informed President needs solid input from experts and he needs to pay attention to it.

Stream of consciousness blather just won't cut it. Today's WSJ opines that even when the President is right about something his out of control method of delivery adversely affects the message.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:03 PM
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Then why did the Sec Gen admit Trump was getting results? Yes, why don’t we just talk nice and continue to get screwed. That’s the ticket.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Yes, why don’t we just talk nice and continue to get screwed. That’s the ticket.
There you go, that's the way to do it. Play nice, bend over, and continue to let your country get screwed.......because you know, it looks better. Everybody knows, being "presidential" is far and away the most important part of being President. Substance and results mean nothing.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Stream of consciousness blather just won't cut it. Today's WSJ opines that even when the President is right about something his out of control method of delivery adversely affects the message.
If "adversely affects the message" = getting results then continue on with stream of consciousness blather!!
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:27 PM
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Think!

Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Then why did the Sec Gen admit Trump was getting results? Yes, why don’t we just talk nice and continue to get screwed. That’s the ticket.
Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
There you go, that's the way to do it. Play nice, bend over, and continue to let your country get screwed.......because you know, it looks better. Everybody knows, being "presidential" is far and away the most important part of being President. Substance and results mean nothing.
Originally Posted by cj View Post
If "adversely affects the message" = getting results then continue on with stream of consciousness blather!!
If all this is so well planned and thought out, why don't the President's senior advisors on his right and left have any idea what he's going to say? Indeed, why does he even have advisors....he doesn't listen to them.

A strong, forceful message consistently delivered is long overdue. What do we get? "You should increase defense spending to 2% of GDP immediately"....next day "You should increase your defense spending to 4% of GDP". The Sec of State, Natl Sec Advisor, NATO ambassador have no idea what the President is going to say.....and neither does the President. He's winging it entirely with little knowledge.

This approach is going to be just fine. Until it isn't. Clearly, no one will pay attention to an erratic message that changes every day. Trump will get away with this approach....until one day he doesn't. Ignorance is not a virtue guys.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:52 PM
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Sounds like Obama’s form over substance. He screwed everything up, but he sure sounded good doing it. UAC, liberalism is built on form over substance.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:58 PM
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This is what being tough gets you... Mexico now coming to the table to discuss deal that would require alleged asylum seekers to return to Mexico. And we know many of these folks aren’t really asylum seekers in the first place. https://hotair.com/headlines/archive...ration-border/
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
If all this is so well planned and thought out, why don't the President's senior advisors on his right and left have any idea what he's going to say? Indeed, why does he even have advisors....he doesn't listen to them.
How do you know this? You can come to this conclusion based on one snapshot? If so, that's pretty **** impressive. You are wasting your talents spending your time on an internet message board. MSNBC and CNN I'm sure would have interest in hiring a person with such an ability.

How do you know he doesn't listen to his advisors? Do you have some inside knowledge or connection that you're not telling us about? I mean, I'm sure it's not another one of those baseless opinion oriented accusations that usually end up being false. It sure doesn't sound the like a President, who by all indications of those around him and of Brett Kavanaugh, who all say he sought the advice of more experts and advisors, and did more research, of any recent past Presidents when making his SCOTUS decision.

This President seeks the advice of everyone around him, and outside of his administration, all of the time. But in the end he makes the final decision, and his strategy is his and his alone. His strategy with NATO worked, as the agreement with other members agreeing to contribute their fair share of defense spending. It worked, how he made it work is irrelevant.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The pictures showing the expressions on the faces of the U.S. ambassador to NATO, Sec of State Mike Pompeo and Chief of Staff Jack Kelly as the President blurts out one thing after another at the NATO meeting pretty much say it all. Trump does not consult with nor does he listen to his most senior advisors. When meeting with foreign leaders none of those closest to him know what's going to come out of his mouth.

Trumpsters will say. "Great", just what we need. Not! The issues facing a President, domestic and foreign, are exceedingly complex. The most intelligent, well informed President needs solid input from experts and he needs to pay attention to it.

Stream of consciousness blather just won't cut it. Today's WSJ opines that even when the President is right about something his out of control method of delivery adversely affects the message.
UAC, that is total speculation on your part, and you are entitled to your opinion. I'll give you mine, since I saw the same video clip. I think those others were thinking, man our President has guts. Finally someone strong enough to call it like it is and have our backs. I could never say those things, but I am glad he is.

Interesting that Obama and Bush were saying the same things, but never had the leadership to do it to those leaders' faces. If you want change, you have to confront.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Adam Schiff
‏@RepAdamSchiff

NATO came to our defense after we were attacked on 9/11. Its members fought by our side in Afghanistan. NATO has kept the peace in Europe.

The question is not what good is NATO, but what’s wrong with a President that doesn’t recognize its immense value.
My point is we (and most of the time, the Brits) do the heavy lifting for NATO. Germany wasn’t going into Afghanistan in October 2001. The application of Article 5 was largely symbolic. Kinda like a candlelight vigil.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ia_137488.html
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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Transparency

In a near tantrum just before the election Newt Gengrich said that Trump listens to no one, doesn't learn and doesn't care to learn.

Re my insights....it's time for transparency for fellow Priders. I owe it to you. Before selecting Pompeo to be Sec of State the President contacted me and offered me the job. I thought it over for a minute before respectfully declining because I knew the President would never pay attention to anything I'd say....just like you guys.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 07-12-2018 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1


John McCain: "President Trump’s performance at the NATO summit in Brussels was disappointing, yet ultimately unsurprising. There is little use in parsing the president’s misstatements and bluster, except to say that they are the words of one man."
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:55 PM
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
In a near tantrum just before the election Newt Gengrich said that Trump listens to no one, doesn't learn and doesn't care to learn.

Re my insights....it's time for transparency for fellow Priders. I owe it to you. Before selecting Pompeo to be Sec of State the President contacted me and offered me the job. I thought it over for a minute before respectfully declining because I knew the President would never pay attention to anything I'd say....just like you guys.
Have you heard Gingrich speak of Trump lately? He thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:39 PM
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NATO Sec Gen praises Trump’s leadership. Liberal heads must be exploding today. http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/11/na...y-trump-media/
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:42 PM
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rollo attempts a back-flip, with predictable results:

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Old 07-12-2018, 03:45 PM
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:44 PM
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Donald Trump gives an interview with Rupert Murdoch's UK newspaper The Sun in which he claims:

-- he outpolls Abraham Lincoln as president. [Narrator: there were no presidential polls in the 1860s]

-- the US GDP has doubled and tripled in the 18 months he has been in office [Narrator: it takes 20 years for the GDP to double; 30 years for it to triple]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/676653...t-us-deal-off/

Okay Mich, rollo, Clayton, cj, Monster...defend Trump's bold face lies.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:17 AM
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History Will Record

that President Trump made America Great Again and ranks up there with Sir Winston Churchill in terms of importance and effectiveness.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:35 AM
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My retirement account has gone up 40% since November 2016.
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  #948  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:44 AM
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A little history on the response of our NATO "allies" after 9/11: Glad they all had our back...right? With the exception of the Anglo-sphere, don't make me laugh.
https://www.steynonline.com/8731/bat...-non-republics
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:21 AM
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It sort of sounds like Trump is trying to get both Germany's Merkel and the UK's May defeated at their next election.

I was not aware that he had such dislike for those 2.

Trump sort of steamrolls his opponents, if you don't get on board with him and his plans, then you had better look out and watch your back, because he will be coming after you.

I would not want to cross him.

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Old 07-13-2018, 12:32 PM
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Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT


Trump is calling a taped interview that the Sun posted audio of “fake news”
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:44 PM
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Claytonflyerfan@Claytonflyerfan

ClaytonFlyerfan is calling anything Swampy says FAKE NEWS
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  #952  
Old 07-13-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Claytonflyerfan@Claytonflyerfan

ClaytonFlyerfan is calling anything Swampy says FAKE NEWS

You don’t find it extremely ridiculous that he calls an interview he did on tape is fake news?

How can it be fake if he said it and they recorded it?

Narrator: It can’t

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Old 07-13-2018, 06:46 PM
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/the-...-el-erian.html
Per CNBC US winning trade war and that’s why market continues to go up. Those in the know
Are aware of what’s really happening. This post is for UACflyer.
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  #954  
Old 07-13-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
This post is for UACflyer.
This post is for steve too.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:58 PM
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Hilarious!

Worth watching.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...fake_news.html:

Trump Refuses Question From CNN's Jim Acosta: "CNN Is Fake News"
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:08 AM
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Trump reality:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration. Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election?

Real Reality:

Ted Lieu
@tedlieu


Dear @realDonaldTrump: You are right the Russian attack occurred under Obama. But the attack was ordered by Putin to help elect you.

You can thank @FBI agents like Peter Strzok who set aside his personal views of you and did his job by not disclosing an ongoing investigation.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Trump reality:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration. Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election?

Real Reality:

Ted Lieu
@tedlieu


Dear @realDonaldTrump: You are right the Russian attack occurred under Obama. But the attack was ordered by Putin to help elect you.

You can thank @FBI agents like Peter Strzok who set aside his personal views of you and did his job by not disclosing an ongoing investigation.
Complete failure of the Obama Administration to address the Russia attacks. "Just stop that." Really?
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Trump Refuses Question From CNN's Jim Acosta: "CNN Is Fake News"
And of course Trump jumps on Twitter to brag about it:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


So funny! I just checked out Fake News CNN, for the first time in a long time (they are dying in the ratings), to see if they covered my takedown yesterday of Jim Acosta (actually a nice guy). They didn’t!

Only one problem, Donnie -- CNN did cover it:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1018132794386546688
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
And of course Trump jumps on Twitter to brag about it:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


So funny! I just checked out Fake News CNN, for the first time in a long time (they are dying in the ratings), to see if they covered my takedown yesterday of Jim Acosta (actually a nice guy). They didn’t!

Only one problem, Donnie -- CNN did cover it:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1018132794386546688
Who is Donnie?
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/the-...-el-erian.html
Per CNBC US winning trade war and that’s why market continues to go up. Those in the know
Are aware of what’s really happening. This post is for UACflyer.
The market is currently range bound, caught between the January high & February low. It could break either way, but this indicator seems to point to higher.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...ine-2018-07-13
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:06 PM
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Editorial from the former president of Georgia. Note the disparity between old NATO & new/aspiring NATO. The former have apparently forgotten about the menace of the Russian Bear; the latter have it permanently etched in their memories.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...zy-with-russia
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Editorial from the former president of Georgia. Note the disparity between old NATO & new/aspiring NATO. The former have apparently forgotten about the menace of the Russian Bear; the latter have it permanently etched in their memories.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...zy-with-russia
I somehow started wondering how the former Eastern Bloc countries are doing about 25 years later now, now that they are no longer behind the Iron Curtain. Countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc.

The citizenry really seems to still be adjusting to the change to capitalism, the switch was a major, major culture shock for many. Very surprisingly IMO, many want to go back to communism and feel that capitalism has made life worse.

Poland? and Hungary I think recently had the communist party there make election gains, that is a very frightening development.

Capitalism needs time to take hold and improve things, nothing happens overnight.

Last edited by ud2; 07-14-2018 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:12 PM
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OK Mich,....

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Complete failure of the Obama Administration to address the Russia attacks. "Just stop that." Really?
Your chance to observe the difference between Obama and Trump comes Monday.

For sure, Obama's "Now cut that out!" was ridiculous...Obama was no fool; but he was a wimp and Putin knew it.

In recent days we have witnessed Trump walk all over allies, using harsh, blunt language that was insulting. Trump's message re NATO spending was the right one and is likely to have effect. But you must admit that the message was delivered to allies, especially Germany, "with the gloves off".

On Friday the Deputy Attorney General presented the results of our investigation of Russian illegal meddling in the affairs of Western Democracies generally and the US specifically. Rosenstein's presentation was thorough, factual, specific...and identified the Russian government's strategic objective to undermine American democracy using illegal means. Rosenstein emphasized that the President had been fully briefed before leaving for Europe.

Considering Trump's harsh treatment of our allies one might expect him to blow a gasket when he confronts Putin, right? In the past Trump's remark that he "asked" Putin "if he did it" and Putin denied it..."And I believe him" makes Obama's "cut it out" look absolutely fierce.

In my opinion Trump missed a golden opportunity. He should have canceled the Putin meeting explaining in detail exactly why. It will be very interesting to observe the contrast between Trump's harsh treatment of our allies and his treatment of an arch enemy, Putin. Please report back re your impressions after Monday's meeting, Mich.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:27 AM
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Donald Trump’s thoughts on a US-UK free trade deal:

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Old 07-15-2018, 10:42 AM
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Huh!

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It sort of sounds like Trump is trying to get both Germany's Merkel and the UK's May defeated at their next election.

I was not aware that he had such dislike for those 2.

Trump sort of steamrolls his opponents, if you don't get on board with him and his plans, then you had better look out and watch your back, because he will be coming after you. (Unless he's afraid of you, e.g., Putin!)

I would not want to cross him.
Not only has Putin been "crossing" Trump....he's been running all over him....eating his lunch.

Putin's Russia for years has been engaging in illegal cyber attempts to cause havoc in the U.S. democratic system, for which there is incontrovertible proof. Not only does Trump not accept the proof, he simply asks Putin if it's true or not. Put says, "Of course not Donald, I would never do anything like that". Our President says, "OK, I believe you" and he drops the matter? Trump's handling of Putin makes Obama's "Cut it out" look fierce.

Trump's response to Rosenstein's blistering description of the indictment of Russians on Friday was...."Well, that happened while Obama was president and he didn't do anything....don't blame me".

Tomorrow may well be the biggest test of Trump's presidency to date. There has always been his peculiar admiration and treatment of Putin. Now the evidence is clear...Putin has been screwing the United States and Trump for a long time. We have the evidence. I cannot wait to see how Trump deals with Putin tomorrow. I'm hopeful that the President makes us proud. But I fear that Trump is not in Putin's league and that the outcome will result in an uproar in the U.S.

Trump may be afraid of Putin. Trump has demonstrated that he's not afraid of the "girls", Angela and Teresa, and other European leaders, ripping them to shreds for perceived mistreatment of the U.S. Everyone now knows that Putin's treatment of the U.S. is anything but "perceived" and is deserving of confrontation and rebuke in the extreme. Let's see if our President really does have the balls to stand up to Russia's Putin. I hope so.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 07-15-2018 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Not only has Putin been "crossing" Trump....he's been running all over him....eating his lunch.

Putin's Russia for years has been engaging in illegal cyber attempts to cause havoc in the U.S. democratic system, for which there is incontrovertible proof. Not only does Trump not accept the proof, he simply asks Putin if it's true or not. Put says, "Of course not Donald, I would never do anything like that". Our President says, "OK, I believe you" and he drops the matter? Trump's handling of Putin makes Obama's "Cut it out" look fierce.

Trump's response to Rosenstein's blistering description of the indictment of Russians on Friday was...."Well, that happened while Obama was president and he didn't do anything....don't blame me".

Tomorrow may well be the biggest test of Trump's presidency to date. There has always been his peculiar admiration and treatment of Putin. Now the evidence is clear...Putin has been screwing the United States and Trump for a long time. We have the evidence. I cannot wait to see how Trump deals with Putin tomorrow. I'm hopeful that the President makes us proud. But I fear that Trump is not in Putin's league and that the outcome will result in an uproar in the U.S.

Trump may be afraid of Putin. Trump has demonstrated that he's not afraid of the "girls", Angela and Teresa, and other European leaders, ripping them to shreds for perceived mistreatment of the U.S. Everyone now knows that Putin's treatment of the U.S. is anything but "perceived" and is deserving of confrontation and rebuke in the extreme. Let's see if our President really does have the balls to stand up to Russia's Putin.
It escapes me why folks think these cyber hacks are such a big deal. I am sure our CIA is attempting to hack Russian sites as well. Spies being spies. It has been that way forever. In my business I see attempted hacks every day - and we are not an important government/political site. No big deal. Just deal with it. The stupidity of Podesta to fall for a phishing scheme - a big part of what opened the floodgates - is not all that surprising either. Politicians are usually not very smart. However, the failure of the DCCC and DNC to not have adequate cyber security seems unfathomable. All of the above being said, nothing has yet been proven - just indictments. As they say, you can indict a ham sandwich.

I do have to say that I do not understand the reason for the Mueller indictments of the 12 Russians. He knows they will never come to trial, so why waste the time. I can only think it is either a bit of political theater to justify his existence, or somehow laying a predicate to go after some folks here in the USA for an as yet unknown crime.

We do know that were it not for somebody hacking the DNC, we would have never known that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary. Talk about rigging an election.

The most under-reported aspect of this whole "Russian attempt to affect our elections" is it is based on the assumption that Americans are so stupid to believe - and actually change their vote - based on stuff posted on Facebook or Twitter. God help us if that is true.

As to Putin eating Trump's lunch - Can you provide specific examples? Also, what specifically would you want Trump to say or do to Putin? If it is "cut out the hacking", then forget it because we do it as well.
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  #967  
Old 07-15-2018, 11:37 AM
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Obummer told Putin to cut it out, and coming from the Democratic Messiah you would have thought that would have done it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:07 PM
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Trump’s expert advice to Theresa May regarding Brexit: sue the EU:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...nt-s-eu-advice

Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 07-15-2018 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:24 PM
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It escapes you?

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
It escapes me why folks think these cyber hacks are such a big deal. I am sure our CIA is attempting to hack Russian sites as well. Spies being spies. It has been that way forever. In my business I see attempted hacks every day - and we are not an important government/political site. No big deal. Just deal with it. The stupidity of Podesta to fall for a phishing scheme - a big part of what opened the floodgates - is not all that surprising either. Politicians are usually not very smart. However, the failure of the DCCC and DNC to not have adequate cyber security seems unfathomable. All of the above being said, nothing has yet been proven - just indictments. As they say, you can indict a ham sandwich.

I do have to say that I do not understand the reason for the Mueller indictments of the 12 Russians. He knows they will never come to trial, so why waste the time. I can only think it is either a bit of political theater to justify his existence, or somehow laying a predicate to go after some folks here in the USA for an as yet unknown crime.

We do know that were it not for somebody hacking the DNC, we would have never known that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary. Talk about rigging an election.

The most under-reported aspect of this whole "Russian attempt to affect our elections" is it is based on the assumption that Americans are so stupid to believe - and actually change their vote - based on stuff posted on Facebook or Twitter. God help us if that is true.

As to Putin eating Trump's lunch - Can you provide specific examples? Also, what specifically would you want Trump to say or do to Putin? If it is "cut out the hacking", then forget it because we do it as well.
We have entered a new era of cyberwarfare. It's not Russian hacking of elections et al that's the threat. It's the vulnerability of our infrastructure that is the real peril. Even a backward country like NK has demonstrated that it can hurt us by way of its cyber capabilities. The countries of the world that are especially vulnerable are high tech Western countries that have become so dependent on the digital age that we created.

Cyber attacks pose an enormous threat to the West. There have been thousands of attempts to penetrate our electric grid and water supply facilities. Anything involving cyber penetration of American systems is a grave matter. Focusing on election meddling is superficial.

But, as regards Russian election meddling, are you suggesting that it should be ignored even though U.S. laws were broken? We would punish our own citizens for using the illegal means the Russians used....but because Putin's Russia did it it's OK....harmless. Yeah, right.

One last thing. Russia...Putin....is waging war against Western democratic systems. It's not just elections. Russia is weak and cannot compete on a level playing field. Therefore, Russia is doing anything and everything it can to cause unrest, distrust, dissatisfaction among people in Western countries re their governments. It would be reassuring to think America is strong enough to shrug that sort of thing off. One thing for sure, we won't shrug off attacks that damage our infrastructure. This is a very serious threat.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:57 PM
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What to do?

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
It escapes me why folks think these cyber hacks are such a big deal. I am sure our CIA is attempting to hack Russian sites as well. Spies being spies. It has been that way forever. In my business I see attempted hacks every day - and we are not an important government/political site. No big deal. Just deal with it. The stupidity of Podesta to fall for a phishing scheme - a big part of what opened the floodgates - is not all that surprising either. Politicians are usually not very smart. However, the failure of the DCCC and DNC to not have adequate cyber security seems unfathomable. All of the above being said, nothing has yet been proven - just indictments. As they say, you can indict a ham sandwich.

I do have to say that I do not understand the reason for the Mueller indictments of the 12 Russians. He knows they will never come to trial, so why waste the time. I can only think it is either a bit of political theater to justify his existence, or somehow laying a predicate to go after some folks here in the USA for an as yet unknown crime.

We do know that were it not for somebody hacking the DNC, we would have never known that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary. Talk about rigging an election.

The most under-reported aspect of this whole "Russian attempt to affect our elections" is it is based on the assumption that Americans are so stupid to believe - and actually change their vote - based on stuff posted on Facebook or Twitter. God help us if that is true.

As to Putin eating Trump's lunch - Can you provide specific examples? Also, what specifically would you want Trump to say or do to Putin? If it is "cut out the hacking", then forget it because we do it as well.
You're making it sound as if the US and Russia are equals. They are not. Russia is a weak country with a GDP about the size of Italy's, Spain's or Canada's. There are three US states with larger GDP's than Russia. That weakness gives the US enormous leverage.

Some facts: Russia is critically dependent on energy export...it sells nothing else. Europe is the primary customer. The US has one liquid natural gas export terminal. It's in TX, SD Flyer can confirm that. There are ~ 20 LNG terminals awaiting approval by the Energy Dept. Obama blocked them. Every cu ft of gas exported from the US to Europe is a cu ft of gas Russia does not sell to Europe.

What would I do? I'd say something like this: Vlad old pal, unless you "cut out" the cyber crap immediately, when I get home I'm going to approve construction of a new LNG terminal. And every time my intelligence people have even the slighted inkling of Russian cyber mischief I'll approve another one.

The US can bludgeon Russia's vital gas export business. That is a weapon. Additionally, unlike the old Soviet Union, Putin's Russia is closely linked to the West's financial system which the US controls. We can put the same squeeze on Russia that is crippling Iran.

Russia has nukes and nothing else. Economically and financially the US is positioned to cause Putin's Russia and the oligarchs great pain. We hold the cards....not Putin. Trunp can do a lot more than say "Cut it out".

The point is, we want Russia to stop its cyber attacks of all types. We can use our economic and financial power to make that happen.

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Old 07-15-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
We have entered a new era of cyberwarfare. It's not Russian hacking of elections et al that's the threat. It's the vulnerability of our infrastructure that is the real peril. Even a backward country like NK has demonstrated that it can hurt us by way of its cyber capabilities. The countries of the world that are especially vulnerable are high tech Western countries that have become so dependent on the digital age that we created.

Cyber attacks pose an enormous threat to the West. There have been thousands of attempts to penetrate our electric grid and water supply facilities. Anything involving cyber penetration of American systems is a grave matter. Focusing on election meddling is superficial.

But, as regards Russian election meddling, are you suggesting that it should be ignored even though U.S. laws were broken? We would punish our own citizens for using the illegal means the Russians used....but because Putin's Russia did it it's OK....harmless. Yeah, right.

One last thing. Russia...Putin....is waging war against Western democratic systems. It's not just elections. Russia is weak and cannot compete on a level playing field. Therefore, Russia is doing anything and everything it can to cause unrest, distrust, dissatisfaction among people in Western countries re their governments. It would be reassuring to think America is strong enough to shrug that sort of thing off. One thing for sure, we won't shrug off attacks that damage our infrastructure. This is a very serious threat.
What is this new era, and when did it start?
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:47 PM
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The Russians or whoever fished Podesta by sending an e-mail disguised as a Microsoft e-mail telling him to update his password. He fell for it. They used his password to break into the system.

This sounds like something a teenager could do.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:56 PM
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Huh?

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
What is this new era, and when did it start?
You're kidding, aren't you Jack?
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

Cyber attacks pose an enormous threat to the West. There have been thousands of attempts to penetrate our electric grid and water supply facilities. Anything involving cyber penetration of American systems is a grave matter. Focusing on election meddling is superficial.
UAC- I have been in the computer business for over 50 years. IMHOP - The problem is not that there are cyber penetration attempts. There always have been and always will be some of those - many with malevolent intent. If it is not the Russians, it could be the Iranians or the Chinese. The biggest problem is that we have so many systems that have security vulnerabilities. So many of our systems have some flavor of Microsoft software - operating systems or applications - with all the associated Microsoft holes and vulnerabilities. We have and can build better systems. I have seen them. My question is - why don't we demand better software and systems? That is where we need to put our efforts.

Better to protect ourselves than to "ask" the Russians or someone else not to hack our software.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
UAC- I have been in the computer business for over 50 years. IMHOP - The problem is not that there are cyber penetration attempts. There always have been and always will be some of those - many with malevolent intent. If it is not the Russians, it could be the Iranians or the Chinese. The biggest problem is that we have so many systems that have security vulnerabilities. So many of our systems have some flavor of Microsoft software - operating systems or applications - with all the associated Microsoft holes and vulnerabilities. We have and can build better systems. I have seen them. My question is - why don't we demand better software and systems? That is where we need to put our efforts.

Better to protect ourselves than to "ask" the Russians or someone else not to hack our software.
No matter how good the system, if you are fooled into giving your password, the system is compromised. They focus on people who are not computer savy.

It helps them if top secret information is being stored on a private server in the bathroom of a mom and pop computer store. If you do that so that your communications can't be tracked by oversight within our government, you are probably not trying to hide anything. If we find someone within the government who is doing that, we probably should not prosecute them, so that others will be encouraged to do that same thing and jeopardize national security.

All of you guys who have had an awakening to our vulnerabilities during this last election cycle probably agree that we should lay off people who were jeopardizing our national security so that those people can be politically protected.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:48 PM
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Agree with you both, but,...

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
UAC- I have been in the computer business for over 50 years. IMHOP - The problem is not that there are cyber penetration attempts. There always have been and always will be some of those - many with malevolent intent. If it is not the Russians, it could be the Iranians or the Chinese. The biggest problem is that we have so many systems that have security vulnerabilities. So many of our systems have some flavor of Microsoft software - operating systems or applications - with all the associated Microsoft holes and vulnerabilities. We have and can build better systems. I have seen them. My question is - why don't we demand better software and systems? That is where we need to put our efforts.

Better to protect ourselves than to "ask" the Russians or someone else not to hack our software.
Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
No matter how good the system, if you are fooled into giving your password, the system is compromised. They focus on people who are not computer savy.

It helps them if top secret information is being stored on a private server in the bathroom of a mom and pop computer store. If you do that so that your communications can't be tracked by oversight within our government, you are probably not trying to hide anything. If we find someone within the government who is doing that, we probably should not prosecute them, so that others will be encouraged to do that same thing and jeopardize national security.

All of you guys who have had an awakening to our vulnerabilities during this last election cycle probably agree that we should lay off people who were jeopardizing our national security so that those people can be politically protected.
While you are both right that in no way lessens our vulnerability.

69,....it doesn't matter if it's the Russians, Iranians or whomever. You make the point that we are extremely vulnerable. Pointing out what we should do in no way reduces the vulnerability.

Fudd, with essentially all workers using computers in the workplace there is no doubt whatsoever that some will be careless and some will be fooled. Knowing that in no way lessens our vulnerability.

It would be exceptionally naïve to think that at some point all companies, government agencies etc will have "hardened" computer systems....and it would be naïve to think that many tens of millions of workers will always be careful and never fooled.

The points you raise reinforce my point perfectly. Because of our exceptional dependence on the digital world we created, the U.S. is exceptionally vulnerable.

Former CIA director Leon Panetta said upon leaving the job that there will be a cyber-Pearl Harbor. Not whether...but when.

In the post-War but pre-cyber age the U.S. could maintain peace by having overwhelming conventional power that all adversaries knew they could not match. In the nuclear age mutual assured destruction kept nation states in line.

But the cyber age is entirely different. Grievous harm to us can be caused by actors other than nation states...and we may not even be able to determined who hit us.

Since we created this stuff, it seems to me we have the national brains to create counter weapons that are superior to others. Once very near the end of his term I vividly recall Obama saying something to the effect that no other country has our offensive or defensive cyber capability. I surely hope he's right. Knowing that the US can retaliate with devastating effect is our best defense and deterrent.

Pointing out what computer systems should be like and how people should be careful doesn't address the problem.

By the way, we don't "ask" the Russians....we tell the Russians....we threaten the Russians.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
No matter how good the system, if you are fooled into giving your password, the system is compromised. .
Not true. Really really dumb to get phished, but not necessarily compromising. Two-factor authentication is one way to combat this issue. Biometrics is another. There are also other methods which I will not share.

When I build systems and software, I assume users are going to do dumb things and code accordingly. Not only will users get phished for their password, they will try to use very simple passwords(like "password"), or write their password on a sticky and attach it to their monitor, or even share their password with a co-worker, or save it in their browser.

Now, I will agree there is no completely secure server. However, we can make our systems a heck of a lot more secure.

Making a system more secure from an outside attack is pretty easy. My biggest fear when building systems and software is an inside attack by a user with elevated privilege. Somebody within the organization needs admin priv. That is the person I really worry about and work really really hard to monitor.

And then there is the guy who wrote the random number generator for the lottery numbers. However, he also embedded a trojan horse in the code that popped out a unique winning number in certain rare situations. Voila, he was a winner! Every application I add to my server has the possibility of a trojan horse - or at least the ability to log information outside my organization. Yikes, another issue to worry about.

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Old 07-15-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
You're kidding, aren't you Jack?
Dead serious. I have no idea what you are saying by "a new era". Is it the last years of computerization, or are you implying something within the last few years?
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:48 AM
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Quantum change

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Dead serious. I have no idea what you are saying by "a new era". Is it the last years of computerization, or are you implying something within the last few years?
There has been a quantum change in the last ten years jack.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
There has been a quantum change in the last ten years jack.
The only quantum change is in the technology (internet) that allows Russian (or any other nationality) trolls to pose as US citizens on social media.

It's analogous to Xavier trolls who came to UDPride to mess with the conversation. Yes, they change the conversation, but people become savvy to their tactics, and it really does not change opinions. It's best not to get in a tizzy about it, because it is a fact of life now.

I'm of the opinion that the internet has an overall positive effect on government. As flawed as the conversation can be with the trolls, if you develop a descent filter for that stuff, the conversations can lead to development of important political understanding. The conversation can last for years on these sites. Very informative, if you know who is serious on both sides.

I also welcome Tweeting. We can stay in touch with candidates and politicians at every twist and turn of the news. There is a constant stream of information about what their position is that cannot be twisted by a dishonest media.

Voters can be very informed with minimal effort if they want to. That is good for Democracy, IMO.

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Old 07-16-2018, 08:06 AM
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For those of you who are not yet convinced that Trump is in Putin's pocket:

Donald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTrump


Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!

Or that Trump is getting played bigly by Putin:

Norah O'Donnell
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Looks like Putin will keep Trump waiting. He’s landing about 45 minutes late at 5:47 EST, just about the time he was supposed to be arriving at the Presidential Palace.

Or that Fox News is nothing more than a propaganda arm for the Trump WH:

Trump-Putin summit could improve US-Russia relations -- And yes, that is a good thing:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...?ICID=ref_fark

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Old 07-16-2018, 08:35 AM
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Closing the circle @realDonaldTrump tweet blaming US and Mueller probe for bad relations with Moscow is retweeted by Lavrov’s foreign ministry saying:”we agree” - perfect propaganda tool for Russia
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:04 AM
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Trump to Finnish Pres Sauli Niinistö, per pool: "I enjoyed being with you a couple of days ago. NATO has, I think, never been stronger. It was a little bit tough at the beginning, but it turned out to be love. I appreciated your support." Does he think Finland is in NATO?
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:26 AM
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Fudd, please...

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
The only quantum change is in the technology (internet) that allows Russian (or any other nationality) trolls to pose as US citizens on social media.
Fudd, I'm NOT talking about trolls, social media, election meddling...I'm talking about threats to our national security, infrastructure, e.g., the electric grid, water supply, air traffic control, financial system, military systems, etc..

Why can't you understand that?
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
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Trump to Finnish Pres Sauli Niinistö, per pool: "I enjoyed being with you a couple of days ago. NATO has, I think, never been stronger. It was a little bit tough at the beginning, but it turned out to be love. I appreciated your support." Does he think Finland is in NATO?
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:34 AM
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Donald Trump is so amazing that he can simultaneously believe Putin that there was no Russian hacking while assuring his base that the Russian hacking was Obama's fault.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:40 AM
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Obama was so amazing he was president over 57 states, not 50!!
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
John Fugelsang
@JohnFugelsang

Donald Trump is so amazing that he can simultaneously believe Putin that there was no Russian hacking while assuring his base that the Russian hacking was Obama's fault.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:44 AM
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Mark Stone
@Stone_SkyNews

Very awkward body language... but @realDonaldTrump did offer Vladimir Putin a wink. @SkyNews

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/st...18652546756608
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:57 AM
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How soon the stupid forget 2012:



"As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.
“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev, who will hand over the presidency to Putin in May.
“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term.
“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ob...bility-russia/
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  #993  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:12 PM
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Renato Mariotti
‏@renato_mariotti

Putin’s government approves Trump’s attack on the Mueller investigation. Our poor relationship with Russia is due to their attack on us, not Mueller’s investigation of their attack.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:17 PM
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Julie Davis
@juliehdavis


Trump to Finnish Pres Sauli Niinistö, per pool: "I enjoyed being with you a couple of days ago. NATO has, I think, never been stronger. It was a little bit tough at the beginning, but it turned out to be love. I appreciated your support." Does he think Finland is in NATO?
A good journalist does his homework. First of all he never said Finland was in NATO, and secondly they are a partner country.

http://www.eata.ee/en/nato-2/nato-member-states/

On to your next failure......................
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  #996  
Old 07-16-2018, 02:15 PM
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And the reviews are in on Trump and Putin's summit:

John O. Brennan
@JohnBrennan


Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

Keith Boykin
@keithboykin


"You have been watching perhaps one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president at a summit in front of a Russian leader certainly than I've ever seen." - Anderson Cooper on Trump-Putin summit

Max Tani
@maxwelltani


Fox Business anchor Stuart Varney: "It was not a very forceful presentation from President Trump with Putin standing right next to him."

Fox's Neil Cavuto: "I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to maybe jet lag and time differences, but holy moly"..."disgusting", "That sets us back a lot."

John Dean
‏@JohnWDean


Wow. If you aren’t horrified by Trump’s performance at the Helsinki Putin/Trump press conference you don’t love our country. Trump is disgusting, only interested in himself not the American people. RESIGN MR. TRUMP, YOU ARE NOT AMERICA FIRST, YOU ARE TRUMP AND ONLY TRUMP!

Garry Kasparov
‏@Kasparov63


This disgrace will have serious repercussions on the ground. Putin now has a green light for more aggression. More trouble in ME to secure high oil prices, more hacking, etc.

Elizabeth Warren
‏@SenWarren


Once again, @realDonaldTrump takes to the international stage to embarrass America, undermine our institutions, weaken our alliances, & embrace a dictator. Russia interfered in our elections & attacked our democracy. Putin must be held accountable – not rewarded. Disgraceful.

Jeff Flake
‏@JeffFlake


I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.

Jeff Zeleny
‏@jeffzeleny


HELSINKI RECAP: With the world watching, President Trump stood at Vladimir Putin’s side and acknowledged more forcefully than ever before that he, the 45th American president, believes the Russian president more than the U-S intelligence community.

Ben Shapiro
‏@benshapiro


With that said, only Trump is the president - and his behavior today was self-serving and utterly grotesque.

Ryan Lizza
@RyanLizza


Everyone is numb and in shock. We can’t believe what we just witnessed, but for me it’s this simple: The President of the United States openly colluded with Putin to undermine our democracy.

Ian Sams
@IanSams


"It's like inviting a criminal to help you solve a crime they committed." That's a Republican ***FOX NEWS*** analyst reacting to Trump's suggestion that Putin will work with them on cybersecurity.

Michael Steele
@MichaelSteele


"My people came to me...they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this, I don't see any reason why it would be."
--Trump

That's how a press conference sounds when an Asset stands next to his Handler.

Bernie Sanders
@SenSanders


President Trump’s press conference with Putin was an embarrassing spectacle. Rather than make clear that interference in our elections is unacceptable, Trump instead accepted Putin’s denials and cast doubt on the conclusions of our intelligence community. This is not normal.

Bill Kristol
‏@BillKristol

Putin won. America lost.

Oliver Darcy
@oliverdarcy


Senior White House official to @jeffzeleny: "How bad was that?"

MJ Lee
@mj_lee


Former Defense Sec. Chuck Hagel says this sentence sums up Trump/Putin presser: “President Trump failed America today."

Michael O'Grady
@mog7546


'SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE'#GOP lawmaker alarmed by Trump-Putin press conference

Rep. #JustinAmash (R-MI), the first sitting GOP lawmaker to float the POSSIBILITY OF IMPEACHMENT


Pete Buttigieg
@PeteButtigieg


Today, friends of mine are risking their lives to serve the US Intelligence Community, as I once did. For the US president to say they are no more credible than the hostile foreign dictator standing next to him is a national security disaster. He must resign.

Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 07-16-2018 at 02:58 PM..
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  #997  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:29 PM
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  #998  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:37 PM
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The Way Trump and the GOP Deal With Russian Attacks Is ‘Textbook Treason’:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-wa...xtbook-treason
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:56 PM
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How do we know that the Russian meddling was officially sanctioned by Putin? It could have been some rogue Russian hackers.
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  #1000  
Old 07-16-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How do we know that the Russian meddling was officially sanctioned by Putin? It could have been some rogue Russian hackers.
Read the most recent indictment.
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