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  #1  
Old 04-12-2023, 03:53 PM
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NIL, Portal & Season Tickets............

How do you feel?

This entire change in college hoops (all NCAA sports) makes me "sick"! Sure there are other things in life much more important then sports.....family, Faith, friends, etc. but sports for enjoyment is important too.

I've been rooting for the Flyers for over 60 years.

I have been rooting for players who wanted to be a Flyer at UD because of the school, campus, coaches, academics they could pursue, opponents they could play, etc. Now they are here for the $$$$$$. If they don't like the $$$$$ they choose their freshman year they will move on to another school and play right away. If they don't like the $$$$ their sophomore year they can move on, sit our a year, then play their final two years. Three schools in 5 years. I'VE ROOTED FOR ONE SCHOOL FOR SIXTY YEARS!!

I'm not so sure I want to invest my hard earned retirement income any longer for my 200 level season tickets to watch a "revolving door". Never thought that idea would EVER enter my mind.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-12-2023, 04:08 PM
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What else are you going to do to get out of the house in the winter in Dayton Ohio?
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Old 04-12-2023, 04:43 PM
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I think we really will not have a sense of how good/bad all of this is for fans until five years or so from now. It is all too new... it will sort itself out one way or another.
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2023, 04:53 PM
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PF66,

I'm not far behind you. What I like about the little pro sports I watch (NFL) and college are 2 completely different things. I liked the 'UD Family' atmosphere that existed for decades.

Most of that is gone now and not sure how much will rebound back. We are in serious discussions about last year being the last year we buy our tickets or make travel plans around where the Flyers are playing.

I'm not 100% there yet but have always been a fan of amateur sports. I know BB has been far from amateur for some time but UD was always on the right side of the equation. Competing by the new rules will spoil a lot of what I loved about following the team.

Life goes on and if we do drop our tix, someone else will be able to enjoy them for what UD BB brings to them.
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Old 04-12-2023, 05:01 PM
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While I agree with all of the above posts, I'm somewhere between Piqua and Marysville (figuratively speaking of course), with a little CJ sprinkled in as I'm a native Daytonian, UD alum, kids UD alums, and we'll all be in Dayton for the foreseeable future. It will take some time for the portal and NIL to sort itself out, and I expect changes to the current landscape. It's simply not sustainable. I'm on the back nine and my kids are on the front nine and to witness all the BS college sports has become is quite frankly...sad.
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Old 04-12-2023, 05:42 PM
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We’re moving south to Florida this summer. Even if we were staying in Ohio, we wouldn’t be renewing our season tickets. It’s just not the same anymore. There’s no team loyalty from the players which makes it easy for long-term season ticket holders like us to move on. I will always be a Flyer fan, but my passion for the program has changed significantly.
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2023, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
What else are you going to do to get out of the house in the winter in Dayton Ohio?
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THIS!

My wife and I actually arrived at several games right after the gates opened, 90 minutes before tip off. Not only do I get the pole position in the parking lot since I stay until the end unlike half you schmucks in blow outs, but we would walk 5000 or so steps around the arena before everyone else arrives. Added bonus, allowed us time to enjoy an extra beverage or two and sample a few different brews, sorta like a weekly wintertime indoor beer fest.
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2023, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
THIS!

My wife and I actually arrived at several games right after the gates opened, 90 minutes before tip off. Not only do I get the pole position in the parking lot since I stay until the end unlike half you schmucks in blow outs, but we would walk 5000 or so steps around the arena before everyone else arrives. Added bonus, allowed us time to enjoy an extra beverage or two and sample a few different brews, sorta like a weekly wintertime indoor beer fest.
That’s YOU taking MY parking spot! You ba$tard!!
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2023, 08:02 PM
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When we flew up to Ohio to watch the Flyers play, we went to early dinner at Pine Club, then got to the arena just after it opened. We were able to go all the way down to near the floor during shoot around, get some great photos of the players, and relax, plus, no traffic to fight and a great parking spot. If I lived there and had season tickets, I'd get there at gate opening every game.
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Old 04-12-2023, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post

I'm not so sure I want to invest my hard earned retirement income any longer for my 200 level season tickets to watch a "revolving door". Never thought that idea would EVER enter my mind.

Thoughts?
Then don't.
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Old 04-12-2023, 09:34 PM
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Now you know what UK fans feel like.
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Old 04-12-2023, 09:36 PM
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Do you go to watch and root for the flyers or to root for a favorite player? I've had favorite players over many years, some who have had limited seasons, either to grades or being a jc player with only two years here. They played for the FLYERS, the team I came to see play. Even in bad years, I've seen good basketball, either by us or the opponents and that's what I came for. I've been following since the Tom Blackburn show, been to games in the fieldhouse, gone to Cincinnati and Louisville for away games, and saw good basketball. You can always move to the 400 level and save your money.
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Old 04-12-2023, 09:43 PM
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The nature of college sports is that kids come and go. It's faster now. At the end of the day I root primarily for the name on the front of the jersey and secondarily for the name on the back of the jersey. You are fooling yourself if you think the player from the 90s, 80s, 70s that made you truly care about them would have been less likely to transfer if it had been as easy as it is now.

It's easy for me to say because I don't live in the area but if I had season tickets I wouldn't be giving them up because of transfers. Now, I might be more likely to give them away for certain games during down years if I wasn't invested in specific players.

One could argue that decrying lack of loyalty with, well, lack of loyalty is a tad bit hypocritical.
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Old 04-13-2023, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
THIS!

My wife and I actually arrived at several games right after the gates opened, 90 minutes before tip off. Not only do I get the pole position in the parking lot since I stay until the end unlike half you schmucks in blow outs, but we would walk 5000 or so steps around the arena before everyone else arrives. Added bonus, allowed us time to enjoy an extra beverage or two and sample a few different brews, sorta like a weekly wintertime indoor beer fest.
If you stay till the end, how important is that pole position spot? everyone else is gone when you get to your car.
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Old 04-13-2023, 11:19 AM
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I have a favorite parking spot. I am usually going through the metal detectors while the National Anthem is going on. I get right out every time no problem, but I do walk a little further.
As for the players I find it funny that people want to chastise them for acting in their own self-interest. The past arrangement you are pinning for was always an illusion. The difference now is the players have some leverage and we the fans get a little more of a peak behind the curtains.
Sounds to me to me like people who want to move down will have a good opportunity to do so.
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Old 04-13-2023, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gem View Post
I have a favorite parking spot. I am usually going through the metal detectors while the National Anthem is going on. I get right out every time no problem, but I do walk a little further.
As for the players I find it funny that people want to chastise them for acting in their own self-interest. The past arrangement you are pinning for was always an illusion. The difference now is the players have some leverage and we the fans get a little more of a peak behind the curtains.
Sounds to me to me like people who want to move down will have a good opportunity to do so.
I for one have not chastised the players in any way nor have I read that in any responses to PF66's post. That's just projection and spin on your end. I'm glad they are getting even a small part of the huge pie they were mostly locked out of before.

That's a huge difference from not being as interested now that it is turning into the minor leagues for the NBA to a degree and will for sure inherit some of all that is wrong with pro sports - greed, play for self 1st etc.

For nearly 4 decades, UD was a destination for the players that came here. Why that was doesn't matter. For the most part, they played for the team and for the university and were committed to both. That's what made college BB better than any pro sport IMHO.

I feel the exact same way about the Olympics. I get no thrill watching Barkley trash talk as the Dream Team puts a 60+ point beat down on some other team. There is a reason that I and so many others can remember exactly where we were and who were when the miracle on ice happened.
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Old 04-13-2023, 01:15 PM
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[QUOTE=Marysville Flyer;731703]I

That's a huge difference from not being as interested now that it is turning into the minor leagues for the NBA to a degree and will for sure inherit some of all that is wrong with pro sports - greed, play for self 1st etc.

College football and basketball have always been a free minor league system for the NBA and NFL. There never was some pristine past of pure amateurism. Players have been getting paid all along. Academics shortcuts have been taken all along. UD has run a pretty clean program and are to be commended for that. I strongly suspect players from 50 and 60 years ago would have transferred more if they could have. I like college football and basketball in spite of the shenanigans that mostly go on behind the scenes. I like professional sports too even though I very much disagree with a lot of the things the pro leagues and owners and players do.
As for people giving up season tickets, it's your time and money so you get to decide how to spend it, but I suspect you may regret it.

As an aside, I was in 7th grade when the Miracle on Ice happened. There is a great 30 for 30 called "Of Miracles And Men." It tells the story from the Soviet perspective. It's well worth watching.
As a second aside, I just so happen to have a game used Viacheslov Fetisov stick. I got it when the Soviet team played the Cincinnati Stingers in an exhibition in 1978 or 79.

Last edited by The Gem; 04-13-2023 at 01:46 PM..
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Old 04-13-2023, 01:47 PM
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Gem,
Thanks for the recommendation. I would love to see things from the other side and will look that up and watch.

I haven't watched much college FB for many years now for the reasons you mentioned. I love the NFL which is my one pro sports addiction. NCAA BB and especially at UD had been isolated from what I hate about college FB for a long time. Now that it's sanctioned its becoming less and less attractive.

We've been going for 45 years though so the tug from that history is definitely shouting the 'I'll regret it' mantra and why we still haven't made that decision. On the other side, it's so easy to get good tickets to games and see all games on TV / Stream so following passionately is much easier than most of those 45 years.
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Old 04-25-2023, 02:08 PM
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Final thoughts...............

I guess I'm surprised that not more then 17 UDPriders have expressed an opinion in this thread. This topic, to me, is so much more important then all the rosters, starting line ups, who hustles, who doesn't, what CAG should do or not do, etc that we discuss forever.

I know the talking heads say that there will be adjustments to the NIL, Portal, etc....but I don't believe it. The Power 5 Leagues have received what they wanted......pay their players through the NIL (been doing it forever but now they are legal). The Power 5 will never allow us to revert back in any significant manner. With the big alumni based Power 5's having the NIL money (a player at U of Miami got $800,00 this past season) they will "buy" the best players out of HS or from the Portal pool.

I see that in a few years the Power 5's will take over March Madness (Power 5 leagues already get 8-10 teams selected) and that'll be the D-1 Tournament. The Dayton's of the world will become D-2 programs and play for a spot in the D-2 tournament. At that point I see the Flyers attendance falling off dramatically.

Hope I'm wrong. Let's go out and get that allusive "2020" National Championship while were still D-1
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Old 04-25-2023, 03:21 PM
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The sky is falling chant is belied by the recent Final Four. It included a 4 seed, two 5 seeds, and a 9 seed. Only one of the four teams was from a "P5" conference.

Yes, there is a lot of churn going on right now. It is unsettling and I'm not a fan. That said, there are still only 13 scholarship slots at each of the P5 schools. It was worse when UCLA could have 20 kids on scholarship and schools would bury a bunch of talent on the "freshman team".

I think all of this will settle down in the next few years. A recession and tighter monetary policy will slow down some of the excess cash sloshing around. Kids will realize that the grass isn't always greener. Of course, it will become even less about "going to school and getting a degree" than it already has. Most of these kids really don't care about UD as an institution. Season ticket holders will have to come to terms with that or turn in their tickets. Someone else will buy them, though.

From UD's perspective, NIL/portal only enhances the competitive advantage UD has over most of the A10. It's up to CAG to expoit that.
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Old 04-25-2023, 04:17 PM
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I totally get how people feel, especially if they have been following UD for longer that I have been alive. I understand how change is not always for the better and almost never without pain and adjustment.

However, with all due respect. NIL is not about the fans or the game experience. It is about letting people profit off their own name, image and likeness, which to me seems like the biggest no-brainer in the world. Imagine if you were driving through Dayton and saw a billboard advertising some product with your name and picture on it, but you didn't sign a deal to allow anyone to use your name or image, or if you were surfing the net and saw your picture in an internet add. Speaking only for myself, I would be going nuts and calling lawyers.

It sucks that it has and will continue to change the college sports experience for all of us but it just couldn't go any other way. I'll still root for whoever is wearing a Flyers' uni, for as long as they are wearing it.
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Old 04-25-2023, 04:26 PM
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I'm not convinced that there are enough Dayton Flyer fans out there to take the season tickets of the blue hairs as they no longer renew their season tickets.

Yeah, if 100 blue hairs don't renew this year, I'm sure there are 100 in the upper arena who will move down...but are there 100 non-season ticket holders out there to buy the now available tickets?? This year...maybe and probably. But what about 10 years from now.

FWIW, the UD grads in their 20s and 30s aren't as dedicated and passionate about UD hoops as those of us over 40...I'm amazed how many of my friends and family have 0 interest in FREE tickets, let alone a full season ticket package + a seat license.

Oh...and as the blue hairs go, so will a TON of their NIL money...which will be difficult to replace as well.

In other words, UD and My Team need to start winning NOW. And not look back. A few more seasons of 22-12 may devastate the program.
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Old 04-25-2023, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I'm not convinced that there are enough Dayton Flyer fans out there to take the season tickets of the blue hairs as they no longer renew their season tickets.

Yeah, if 100 blue hairs don't renew this year, I'm sure there are 100 in the upper arena who will move down...but are there 100 non-season ticket holders out there to buy the now available tickets?? This year...maybe and probably. But what about 10 years from now.

FWIW, the UD grads in their 20s and 30s aren't as dedicated and passionate about UD hoops as those of us over 40...I'm amazed how many of my friends and family have 0 interest in FREE tickets, let alone a full season ticket package + a seat license.

Oh...and as the blue hairs go, so will a TON of their NIL money...which will be difficult to replace as well.

In other words, UD and My Team need to start winning NOW. And not look back. A few more seasons of 22-12 may devastate the program.
This will be the case for everyone except the largest state schools and the Ivies which have bottomless pits of money and alumni. The rest are at risk.
And to your other point, young people today aren't even loyal to their own God given gender, let alone a basketball team . . .
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Old 04-26-2023, 11:23 AM
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My biggest fear is that college ball will start looking much more like the NBA. By that I mean a bunch of selfish "me players," and the actual game of basketball will largely dwindle due to the lack of chemistry we used to see in teams that played together for a long time. At that point, I'm done. I can hardly stomach watching the NBA and only do for players I enjoy, and it's been that way for years at this point. This is not a UD problem, but rather one that would turn me off to the game of basketball at a very high level.

The other scenario is that the program continues to under-perform. I'm not rooting against anyone, but AG needs to find another NCAA appearance very quickly or I'll be strongly considering putting my season ticket expenses to something my family feels provides a better return on investment. This is potentially a UD problem.

In either of these scenarios, I highly doubt we'd continue throwing thousands of dollars and many hours of life into our season tickets. It's just simply a decision where the time and financial investment has to be matched by the enjoyment and value we get out of it.
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Old 04-26-2023, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
My biggest fear is that college ball will start looking much more like the NBA. By that I mean a bunch of selfish "me players," and the actual game of basketball will largely dwindle due to the lack of chemistry we used to see in teams that played together for a long time. At that point, I'm done. I can hardly stomach watching the NBA and only do for players I enjoy, and it's been that way for years at this point. This is not a UD problem, but rather one that would turn me off to the game of basketball at a very high level.

The other scenario is that the program continues to under-perform. I'm not rooting against anyone, but AG needs to find another NCAA appearance very quickly or I'll be strongly considering putting my season ticket expenses to something my family feels provides a better return on investment. This is potentially a UD problem.

In either of these scenarios, I highly doubt we'd continue throwing thousands of dollars and many hours of life into our season tickets. It's just simply a decision where the time and financial investment has to be matched by the enjoyment and value we get out of it.
I totally agree with your sentiments, but I think the problem is NIL in total. We don't have "our guys" anymore. We are not recruiting guys who want to be Flyers, or follow in the footsteps of the greats who played for UD. We are renting players, pure and simple. And, I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind the concept of "rooting for the name on the front of the jersey." At that point it is just a semi pro sport only worse in that every player is a free agent, every year. As for AG and DIV1 coaches in general, who would want that job going forward? Every year will be a rebuilding year since, on average, you will be losing 5+ players. And, let's not kid ourselves, NIL is still in it's infancy. As I have posted before, UD mens bball player payroll will be $2.5MM+ in less than 5 years. It only goes up from there.

Think about it, DaRon Holmes probably will make +-$1MM next year if he stays at UD. There isn't a single UD graduating senior who will make that in their first 5 years, regardless of how bright they are.

Unfortunately, UD has no choice but to play the game. Neil says money is no problem, but for how long? Take White-Allen for example - they have financially supported UD athletics for 75+? years. I have no clue how much they spend per year, but lets say its $500k. Next time Neil knocks on the door and says, hey, we need to have you support our players to the tune of, oh, lets say $2MM, how does that go over?? A lot of these family businesses don't pass their loyalties on like they do their money. I don't see how this doesn't end badly for the vast majority of teams out there.
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Old 04-27-2023, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
I totally agree with your sentiments, but I think the problem is NIL in total. We don't have "our guys" anymore. We are not recruiting guys who want to be Flyers, or follow in the footsteps of the greats who played for UD. We are renting players, pure and simple. And, I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind the concept of "rooting for the name on the front of the jersey." At that point it is just a semi pro sport only worse in that every player is a free agent, every year. As for AG and DIV1 coaches in general, who would want that job going forward? Every year will be a rebuilding year since, on average, you will be losing 5+ players. And, let's not kid ourselves, NIL is still in it's infancy. As I have posted before, UD mens bball player payroll will be $2.5MM+ in less than 5 years. It only goes up from there.

Think about it, DaRon Holmes probably will make +-$1MM next year if he stays at UD. There isn't a single UD graduating senior who will make that in their first 5 years, regardless of how bright they are.

Unfortunately, UD has no choice but to play the game. Neil says money is no problem, but for how long? Take White-Allen for example - they have financially supported UD athletics for 75+? years. I have no clue how much they spend per year, but lets say its $500k. Next time Neil knocks on the door and says, hey, we need to have you support our players to the tune of, oh, lets say $2MM, how does that go over?? A lot of these family businesses don't pass their loyalties on like they do their money. I don't see how this doesn't end badly for the vast majority of teams out there.
What is the other option? To continue to let programs, the NCAA, CBS, ESPN make billions off the talent of people who are not allowed to be paid for their talent. If NIL is renting players, what is not allowing them to be compensated at all? That is a rhetorical question, we all know what that is.
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Old 04-27-2023, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
What is the other option? To continue to let programs, the NCAA, CBS, ESPN make billions off the talent of people who are not allowed to be paid for their talent. If NIL is renting players, what is not allowing them to be compensated at all? That is a rhetorical question, we all know what that is.
There are multiple options.

1. Let the professional leagues build minor league systems like baseball has and players can choose to turn professional and get drafted into a minor league system or go to college.
2. Make players choose between NIL and scholarship money. If you choose NIL, then the school doesn't pay for your college.
3. Allow scholarship players to earn NIL but cap it, or ensure that it all goes into a pot and is spread throughout the entire team.
4. Cap it by year with the program, meaning players have to earn it by their play, rather than demanding it just to go somewhere.

You can also allow athletes to earn money unrelated to their sport, which I think the NCAA forbade until NIL came along.

I don't think there's an easy answer and probably given where the courts are at, they would frown upon capping/disallowing etc. They may not frown on revenue sharing, and probably wouldn't frown on choosing between NIL and a scholarship.
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Old 04-27-2023, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
There are multiple options.

1. Let the professional leagues build minor league systems like baseball has and players can choose to turn professional and get drafted into a minor league system or go to college.
2. Make players choose between NIL and scholarship money. If you choose NIL, then the school doesn't pay for your college.
3. Allow scholarship players to earn NIL but cap it, or ensure that it all goes into a pot and is spread throughout the entire team.
4. Cap it by year with the program, meaning players have to earn it by their play, rather than demanding it just to go somewhere.

You can also allow athletes to earn money unrelated to their sport, which I think the NCAA forbade until NIL came along.

I don't think there's an easy answer and probably given where the courts are at, they would frown upon capping/disallowing etc. They may not frown on revenue sharing, and probably wouldn't frown on choosing between NIL and a scholarship.
When you say things like "make players choose" and "allow players" that reveals the problem. You can't do that. The NCAA could tell schools you can't give athletic scholarships anymore but then there would literally be no reason to have an NCAA and the big school are going to say, nah, we want to do both.

You can't "allow" kids to profit of something that they 100% own (their own name, image and likeness), they have that right inherently. Capping it is impossible as this all happens via third parties on an open market. The schools are not and cannot be (which is not to say that they aren't) directly involved in this stuff. The whole theory is that if I want to play basketball at UD, and the Pine Club wants to pay me to be their spokesman, that has nothing to do with UD but is a private business paying a local figure to promote their business, in theory it has nothing to do with the school.

If there was a minor league basketball system as robust as what baseball has, I think college basketball would basically become mid level high school basketball. How much college baseball do you watch?
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Old 04-27-2023, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
When you say things like "make players choose" and "allow players" that reveals the problem. You can't do that. The NCAA could tell schools you can't give athletic scholarships anymore but then there would literally be no reason to have an NCAA and the big school are going to say, nah, we want to do both.

You can't "allow" kids to profit of something that they 100% own (their own name, image and likeness), they have that right inherently. Capping it is impossible as this all happens via third parties on an open market. The schools are not and cannot be (which is not to say that they aren't) directly involved in this stuff. The whole theory is that if I want to play basketball at UD, and the Pine Club wants to pay me to be their spokesman, that has nothing to do with UD but is a private business paying a local figure to promote their business, in theory it has nothing to do with the school.

If there was a minor league basketball system as robust as what baseball has, I think college basketball would basically become mid level high school basketball. How much college baseball do you watch?
None, which is where I'm trending on college basketball if it simply becomes a minor league pay system. I don't even watch professional baseball, when you have teams like the Padres signing over $1B in contracts to 4 players this offseason, while the 2nd highest player on the Reds payroll this year hasn't been on the team in 15 years.

But, to the extent that I want to watch paid professional athletes, then I'll watch the NBA. I would prefer college, but if teams are going to be filled by players who committed based on how much NIL money they can are offered, then that's really not what I'm into. It's not that I'm against players making money off their name, it's that I'm against the direction it's trending of players committing to teams based on how much NIL money they are promised.

Funny how until a few years ago, you could tell kids they couldn't make money off their NIL. Most people didn't have a problem with this, as between the scholarship, the gear, the stipend, etc, along with the opportunity made available by being offered that scholarship, it seemed a fair trade-off to most people. I'm sure not everyone agreed, and obviously, when it finally made it to court, the courts disagreed. But without some kind of framework, they may end up destroying the goose that laid the golden egg.

There needs to be some sort of framework implemented, that allows kids to make money, but can in no way be associated with signing with a team, etc. I don't know how to do that, but they need to figure it out. Livvy Dunne may make 7 figures a year, but it's not because she signed with LSU for gymnastics.
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Old 04-27-2023, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Funny how until a few years ago, you could tell kids they couldn't make money off their NIL.
Probably until CBB/NCAA money became truly obscene. I've read (can't think of where, could be mistaken), that the NCAA makes about $1B from the tournament. Add on the video game deals like NCAA Hoops 2K22, and the money becomes truly staggering.

The advent of video games could well have been the straw that broke the camel's back, since player likenesses are directly used. It's pretty hard to say that someone shouldn't make money where their name and direct likeness are used to make money.

Like it or not, in today's hyper-media age, celebrity is their product. They should cash in where they can, like Ms. Dunne.
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Old 04-27-2023, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
Probably until CBB/NCAA money became truly obscene. I've read (can't think of where, could be mistaken), that the NCAA makes about $1B from the tournament. Add on the video game deals like NCAA Hoops 2K22, and the money becomes truly staggering.

The advent of video games could well have been the straw that broke the camel's back, since player likenesses are directly used. It's pretty hard to say that someone shouldn't make money where their name and direct likeness are used to make money.

Like it or not, in today's hyper-media age, celebrity is their product. They should cash in where they can, like Ms. Dunne.
I don't have any issues with them making money, I have issues with the pay to play aspect, which is what it's turning/turned into. When a kid eliminates schools, not based on playing/growth opportunity, but on NIL opportunity, that's not good. A kid from a B1G school that recently transferred, and the going price for signing was apparently over 350K. Kid hadn't done anything special at the other school, but that was the price to sign. And sign he did. It is what it is, but I won't ever agree that it's right.
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Old 04-28-2023, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I don't have any issues with them making money, I have issues with the pay to play aspect, which is what it's turning/turned into. When a kid eliminates schools, not based on playing/growth opportunity, but on NIL opportunity, that's not good. A kid from a B1G school that recently transferred, and the going price for signing was apparently over 350K. Kid hadn't done anything special at the other school, but that was the price to sign. And sign he did. It is what it is, but I won't ever agree that it's right.
There was never anyway for it not to turn into exactly what it is right now. It was obvious from day 1. There's no possible way to police it.
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Old 04-28-2023, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
None, which is where I'm trending on college basketball if it simply becomes a minor league pay system. I don't even watch professional baseball, when you have teams like the Padres signing over $1B in contracts to 4 players this offseason, while the 2nd highest player on the Reds payroll this year hasn't been on the team in 15 years.

But, to the extent that I want to watch paid professional athletes, then I'll watch the NBA. I would prefer college, but if teams are going to be filled by players who committed based on how much NIL money they can are offered, then that's really not what I'm into. It's not that I'm against players making money off their name, it's that I'm against the direction it's trending of players committing to teams based on how much NIL money they are promised.

Funny how until a few years ago, you could tell kids they couldn't make money off their NIL. Most people didn't have a problem with this, as between the scholarship, the gear, the stipend, etc, along with the opportunity made available by being offered that scholarship, it seemed a fair trade-off to most people. I'm sure not everyone agreed, and obviously, when it finally made it to court, the courts disagreed. But without some kind of framework, they may end up destroying the goose that laid the golden egg.

There needs to be some sort of framework implemented, that allows kids to make money, but can in no way be associated with signing with a team, etc. I don't know how to do that, but they need to figure it out. Livvy Dunne may make 7 figures a year, but it's not because she signed with LSU for gymnastics.
I don't disagree with a single thing you said, the question/problem is how do we get there within the confines of the law (within the confines of the edict of the US Supreme Court).

I had lunch with a buddy yesterday and all the pre NFL draft stuff was on and he turns to me and says: "what happens when kids who made $5M in college refuse to sign with the team that drafted them because they don't want to be part of a rebuild?" I said, "you mean like Eli Manning?" He said, "that's my point, Eli Manning could do that because his family has money but now it seems like alot more kids may be in the position." This is yet another issue that I hadn't even thought of. It seems like the problems are evident, the solutions are not.

To the point that you used to be able to tell kids they couldn't make money of their NIL, I will only say, there are lots of things, some worse than others, that we used to do in this country until a breaking point was reached and it just couldn't be justified any longer.
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Old 04-28-2023, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
I don't disagree with a single thing you said, the question/problem is how do we get there within the confines of the law (within the confines of the edict of the US Supreme Court).

I had lunch with a buddy yesterday and all the pre NFL draft stuff was on and he turns to me and says: "what happens when kids who made $5M in college refuse to sign with the team that drafted them because they don't want to be part of a rebuild?" I said, "you mean like Eli Manning?" He said, "that's my point, Eli Manning could do that because his family has money but now it seems like alot more kids may be in the position." This is yet another issue that I hadn't even thought of. It seems like the problems are evident, the solutions are not.

To the point that you used to be able to tell kids they couldn't make money of their NIL, I will only say, there are lots of things, some worse than others, that we used to do in this country until a breaking point was reached and it just couldn't be justified any longer.
I believe all of this is controlled and dictated within the collective bargaining agreements between the NFL and the Player's union. Courts have consistently upheld 'rules' within the CBA that would not be held up if attempted by private or public companies.

No person has a right to play in the NFL. If they chooses to play in the league, it will be under the rules and mandates of the CBA. I could see something similar working it's way down the pike in college if the universities and NCAA are willing to share more of the pie with the players.

Very few kids coming out of college will have the leverage the Manning family had no matter how much NIL they made in college. If they aren't on an NFL/NBA roster, their own personal NIL won't be worth all that much. They've got to be playing to be valuable to those with money. It's hand and glove.

Going forward, the players and universities need each other so I expect that to be the understanding both sides need to see for a leveling off with reason and control to occur.
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Old 04-28-2023, 12:59 PM
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Rumor is that the stud Manning kid going to TX is taking his grandfather's advice (Archie), and will not take NIL money till he is a starter. Altruistic, or holding out for a better deal?

Wonder what happens when he does not have a good freshman year and OSU or Alabama come knocking?
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Old 04-28-2023, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Rumor is that the stud Manning kid going to TX is taking his grandfather's advice (Archie), and will not take NIL money till he is a starter. Altruistic, or holding out for a better deal?

Wonder what happens when he does not have a good freshman year and OSU or Alabama come knocking?
Its easy to be altruistic when you have no need for money. My guess is he could never start in college and would still get drafted in the NFL based on genetics.
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Old 04-28-2023, 05:33 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Rumor is that the stud Manning kid going to TX is taking his grandfather's advice (Archie), and will not take NIL money till he is a starter. Altruistic, or holding out for a better deal?

Wonder what happens when he does not have a good freshman year and OSU or Alabama come knocking?
He's not going to be the starter this year, so not sure what that means re: not having a good freshman year. He may not even be the starter next year if Ewers stays for 3 years, unless he transfers.
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Old 04-28-2023, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
He's not going to be the starter this year, so not sure what that means re: not having a good freshman year. He may not even be the starter next year if Ewers stays for 3 years, unless he transfers.
My country here.... No way UT names Manning starter during spring. It's Ewers to lose and he transfers or goes pro after season (it is possible he is not starter at end of season too). With UT it is very very easy to have a good season as a nonstarter on August 1) Manning smart not to take UT NIL money... it is the worst of what NIL stands for and he can stay above it. I do see endorsements and freebees headed his way though.
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Old 04-28-2023, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kool-ade Flyer View Post
My country here.... No way UT names Manning starter during spring. It's Ewers to lose and he transfers or goes pro after season (it is possible he is not starter at end of season too). With UT it is very very easy to have a good season as a nonstarter on August 1) Manning smart not to take UT NIL money... it is the worst of what NIL stands for and he can stay above it. I do see endorsements and freebees headed his way though.
They won't name him starter unless Ewers falls flat on his face. In fact, Malik Murphy outplayed Manning during the spring and the Orange/White game, and he hadn't played in over two years. Not a knock on Manning, but he's got a lot to learn. I'd go so far as to say that Manning may in fact red shirt this season.
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