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03-14-2017, 12:31 PM
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Major General
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So, that thing is a bundle of wheat?
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03-14-2017, 12:33 PM
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General
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Happy to hear the recap of their UL , Mich State and Okla State games.
On a positive note for WSU , 1 8 POINTVictory in the Missouri Valley. The remainder were ALL 15 points and up. With many being 20 POINT victories. That they didnt let down is somewhat impressive.
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03-14-2017, 12:50 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
In the early days of WSU (over 100 years ago), the football players earned money over the summer by shocking wheat. That is gathering up wheat stalks that have been cut, grouping them into shocks, and tying them together for the crew that would come in and thresh the wheat to separate the grain from the rest.
It is back-breaking hard labor in intense heat, so wheat shockers were considered some of the toughest and hardest working of all farm laborers.
When it was decided to give the football team a nickname, one person in the athletic department came up with WheatShockers. In modern language, wheat shockers has lost all meaning, so the common form of WheatShockers is now just Shockers. We get a lot of interesting comments when we play East Coast teams, since The Shocker has meaning there. There's also a WSU hand gesture for a "W", that's incredibly similar to the East Coast obscene gesture associated with The Shocker.
We used to have little old ladies waving big foam hand gestures with the words "Give 'Em The Shocker" and the hand gesture for the East Coast version of The Shocker.
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Cool story. We invented flight.
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03-14-2017, 01:17 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
Cool story. We invented flight.
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We build lots of planes.
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03-14-2017, 01:24 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
We build lots of planes.
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We have alien corpses.
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03-14-2017, 01:27 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
We build lots of planes.
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You're on the plains.
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03-14-2017, 01:57 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
We build lots of planes.
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We design a lot of aerospace technology here - Wright Patterson and the US Air Force Research Labs.
PS We also fly drones from near here that are in the skies around the world.
PPS We also develop aerospace 'stuff' no one has seen or heard about ... yet!
AND as was already posted we have those alien guys around here somewhere!
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03-14-2017, 02:02 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
We get a lot of interesting comments when we play East Coast teams, since The Shocker has meaning there. There's also a WSU hand gesture for a "W", that's incredibly similar to the East Coast obscene gesture associated with The Shocker.
We used to have little old ladies waving big foam hand gestures with the words "Give 'Em The Shocker" and the hand gesture for the East Coast version of The Shocker.
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So you're saying that you use the same sign language that UD fans signal to our fav team the _avior mouseketeers?
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03-14-2017, 03:28 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
In the early days of WSU (over 100 years ago), the football players earned money over the summer by shocking wheat. That is gathering up wheat stalks that have been cut, grouping them into shocks, and tying them together for the crew that would come in and thresh the wheat to separate the grain from the rest.
It is back-breaking hard labor in intense heat, so wheat shockers were considered some of the toughest and hardest working of all farm laborers.
When it was decided to give the football team a nickname, one person in the athletic department came up with WheatShockers. In modern language, wheat shockers has lost all meaning, so the common form of WheatShockers is now just Shockers. We get a lot of interesting comments when we play East Coast teams, since The Shocker has meaning there. There's also a WSU hand gesture for a "W", that's incredibly similar to the East Coast obscene gesture associated with The Shocker.
We used to have little old ladies waving big foam hand gestures with the words "Give 'Em The Shocker" and the hand gesture for the East Coast version of The Shocker.
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I grew up on the east coast in NJ but I just checked out Urban Dictionary and just learned something new.
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03-14-2017, 03:29 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
We design a lot of aerospace technology here - Wright Patterson and the US Air Force Research Labs.
PS We also fly drones from near here that are in the skies around the world.
PPS We also develop aerospace 'stuff' no one has seen or heard about ... yet!
AND as was already posted we have those alien guys around here somewhere!
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You also have some aviation museums that I would love to have a chance to visit one day.
We need to get regular games with you guys so I have an excuse to visit.
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03-14-2017, 03:38 PM
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General
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word is that UD tried, Wichita said no this past off season. Rumor or truth I don't know.
Wright Patt Air Force Museum is surprisingly free (government regulation, I can't believe the government would stand for such a thing)
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03-14-2017, 03:38 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
You also have some aviation museums that I would love to have a chance to visit one day.
We need to get regular games with you guys so I have an excuse to visit.
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Have your guy tweet our guy.
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03-14-2017, 03:39 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Tactics question. Does Dayton play mostly man to man or zone defense? If you play zone, what kind?
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03-14-2017, 03:45 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
Tactics question. Does Dayton play mostly man to man or zone defense? If you play zone, what kind?
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I bet you can count the number of possessions we played zone all season on 1 hand.
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03-14-2017, 03:47 PM
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Colonel
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And that hand is probably missing three fingers.
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03-14-2017, 03:52 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by CE80
I bet you can count the number of possessions we played zone all season on 1 hand.
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Excellent!
A quality zone has been an Achilles heel for WSU the past few years. It hasn't been as bad this year but our offense runs smoother against man to man.
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03-14-2017, 05:18 PM
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Wheatshock, the zone hasn't been good to us either. Do you guys ever employ a zone?
From our POV, I can't recall Archie ever really going to a zone for any measure of time over the past 5 years. I could be wrong about that. There are posters on here with better memories than mine.
But i will say that it's unlikely you'll see a zone on friday from us unless the Dayton coaching staff really digs deep into their bag of tricks.
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03-14-2017, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95
Wheatshock, the zone hasn't been good to us either. Do you guys ever employ a zone?
From our POV, I can't recall Archie ever really going to a zone for any measure of time over the past 5 years. I could be wrong about that. There are posters on here with better memories than mine.
But i will say that it's unlikely you'll see a zone on friday from us unless the Dayton coaching staff really digs deep into their bag of tricks.
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Archie toyed with playing a little zone early in the year, then gave up on it quickly. Did not recall seeing it all during A10 play.
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03-14-2017, 05:45 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95
Wheatshock, the zone hasn't been good to us either. Do you guys ever employ a zone?
From our POV, I can't recall Archie ever really going to a zone for any measure of time over the past 5 years. I could be wrong about that. There are posters on here with better memories than mine.
But i will say that it's unlikely you'll see a zone on friday from us unless the Dayton coaching staff really digs deep into their bag of tricks.
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WSU under Marshall plays man to man 99.5% of the time. We do a fair amount of switching screens this year which we have not done in the past.
The few times we have experimented with zone have not been pretty.
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03-14-2017, 05:49 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Prediction- The first team to play zone, losses the game!
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03-14-2017, 05:59 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Prediction- The first team to play zone, losses the game!
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I'll bet with you on that if you take my bet. I'm betting the Flyers lose the opening tip.
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03-14-2017, 06:01 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I'll bet with you on that if you take my bet. I'm betting the Flyers lose the opening tip.
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I will bet you a beer, payable at the game. Oh wait, the NCAA Nazis won't allow beer sales. Surprising, as money hungry as they are.
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03-14-2017, 06:26 PM
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Major
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
Excellent!
A quality zone has been an Achilles heel for WSU the past few years. It hasn't been as bad this year but our offense runs smoother against man to man.
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Not ours...you haven't seen anything like UD's mano-a-mano (I hope you too understand Spannish...I used to live in El Paso Tx)
(Not counting UMass), UD is a champion among all the RPI teams (...not ranked better than 200). Beat that my friend. We are undefeated! ...well sort of.....
Touche !
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03-14-2017, 06:46 PM
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Brigadier General
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Thanks to UD90 for tempering his criticism of our guests. They seem genuinely....cool. I'm really looking forward to this game because I've mentioned your program specifically as a template for UD'so program. Hopefully both our programs progress to near-Gonzaga-status in the near future. You have a great program, no doubt. It's an honor to play a similarly successful program as ours.
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03-15-2017, 12:04 AM
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Just off the Jet
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Wichita has the National Institute for Aerospace Research. It's part of WSU's aeronautical engineering program. The NIAR is located in the former area arena, which held 12,000 for basketball. The facility is big enough that they can test some very large aerospace components.
Cessna, Beechcraft, and LearJet are almost exclusively and completely built in Wichita. Wichita also builds major components of Boeing planes. I believe it's 70% of 737's that are built in Wichita.
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03-15-2017, 12:26 AM
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Just off the Jet
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There's been too much "mine is bigger" going on between the Dayton and WSU fan bases. I'm just trying to enjoy a great ride to the season so far and I like to have fun interacting with fans, so here goes something completely different.
C - Shaq Morris - Has been known to take plays off from time to time. Sometimes it's entire games. Can have a tendency to become an on court observer instead of a participant. Seems to have overcome some of that lately. Has a habit of getting 14 minutes of court time due to foul trouble. It's hard to stop a 265-lb. body in motion. Also has a tendency to get at least 1 foul 30' from the basket.
PF - Rashard Kelly - Has a bad season shooting % from inside of 2'. Can dribble coast to coast on a steal, but if he has to stop and pass the ball, it's almost always a turnover. Lately he's been finishing at the basket, but he still loves dribbling down the court with a rebound.
SF - Zach Brown - Prompted Mark Adams (MVC TV color guy) to comment when Brown got pulled after an ill-advised shot: "But, Coach, I was wide open" - "Son, there is a reason why you were wide open".
SG - Conner Frankamp - Ungodly shooter and shot-creater out of HS. Nationally ranked as the #43 player in the nation out of HS. Absolutely and totally lost confidence in a year at KU as a deep bench player. Transferred to Wichita, his home town and struggled for a year. I mean STRUGGLED. Then he got moved to SG. At 6'1", that can be an issue. Struggled with confidence and the pressure of playing in his home town. Second half of this season he has been his HS self. If the pressure of an NCAA game overcomes his confidence, he might struggle.
PG - Landry Shamet - Not much to say about his weaknesses. He's a Fr and from time to time he shows the true lack of wisdom that seems to affect most Fr.
Bench C/PF - Darral Willis - Will fill the stat sheet when he's in. So will the guy he's supposed to be guarding.
Last edited by LongTimeShocker; 03-15-2017 at 12:29 AM..
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03-15-2017, 06:53 AM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
There's been too much "mine is bigger" going on between the Dayton and WSU fan bases. I'm just trying to enjoy a great ride to the season so far and I like to have fun interacting with fans, so here goes something completely different.
C - Shaq Morris - Has been known to take plays off from time to time. Sometimes it's entire games. Can have a tendency to become an on court observer instead of a participant. Seems to have overcome some of that lately. Has a habit of getting 14 minutes of court time due to foul trouble. It's hard to stop a 265-lb. body in motion. Also has a tendency to get at least 1 foul 30' from the basket.
SF - Zach Brown - Prompted Mark Adams (MVC TV color guy) to comment when Brown got pulled after an ill-advised shot: "But, Coach, I was wide open" - "Son, there is a reason why you were wide open"..
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Both of these could be about Kendall at times.
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03-15-2017, 07:42 AM
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Colonel
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What I take from this matchup is that both teams deserve a 6-7 seed, a shot at an overrated South Carolina type in the first round, and a legit shot at taking down a big time program to make the Sweet Sixteen. Bpth programs have the talent. Both programs have fan support equal to all but the biggest blue bloods.
Unfortunately, only one can win this game.
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03-15-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
Mark Adams (MVC TV color guy)
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Mark Adams is from Dayton and is a big Dayton fan. He used to host our local post game show before picking up the FT announcing job.
And he appropriately used that same line on a number of prior Dayton players.
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03-15-2017, 09:10 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by sheg
What I take from this matchup is that both teams deserve a 6-7 seed, a shot at an overrated South Carolina type in the first round, and a legit shot at taking down a big time program to make the Sweet Sixteen. Bpth programs have the talent. Both programs have fan support equal to all but the biggest blue bloods.
Unfortunately, only one can win this game.
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This is what really irks me. The NIT seems to be set up to match the P5 against others. So far both Richmond, Oakland, CSU Bakersfield and Boise St have succeeded on the road against P5 teams. Valpo and Monmouth did not. Would love to see UD, WSU, VCU and St. Mary's all matched up against P5 teams.
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03-15-2017, 09:26 AM
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03-15-2017, 10:40 AM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
Bench C/PF - Darral Willis - Will fill the stat sheet when he's in. So will the guy he's supposed to be guarding.
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Also averages 1.3 travelling calls per game.
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03-15-2017, 11:04 AM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by CE80
This is what really irks me. The NIT seems to be set up to match the P5 against others. So far both Richmond, Oakland, CSU Bakersfield and Boise St have succeeded on the road against P5 teams. Valpo and Monmouth did not. Would love to see UD, WSU, VCU and St. Mary's all matched up against P5 teams.
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Not pointed directly at you, CE80, but here is what irks me. Here is what people have been saying...
If the NCAA if two mid-majors are placed against each other, it's the P5 bias getting rid of any mid-majors that have a chance.
If the NCAA/NIT pits a P5 against a mid-major, it's the P5's way of getting rid of the mid-majors by beating up on them.
We can't have it both ways.
In the NCAA, ignore the first round 1 thru 5 vs 16 thru 12, as those are almost all P5/BE vs bottom 20 one-bid conferences. That leaves us the 6/11, 7/10, and 8/9 games. There are 4 of each, for a total of 12 games.
P5/BE vs P5/BE: 8/9, 8/9, 8/9, 8/9 (SetonHall), 7/10(Marq), 7/10, 6/11 (Prov), 6/11(Norwood),
Mid vs Mid: 7 (StMarys)/10(VCU), 7(Day)/10(WichSt)
P5/BE vs Mid: 6/11 ( URI), 6 (Cincy)/11
Maybe they could have found a way to send OkSt (10) to Salt Lake City, and send VCU (10) to Indianapolis to face Michigan. Unfortunately, URI is in Michigan's bracket, so that would be a 3rd round A10/A10 matchup, and they try to spread teams around. As well, if they attempt to swap OkSt with WichSt, OkSt would have a 3rd round matchup with KState.
Maybe you could swap URI (11) to Tulsa for Providence/USC (11), then move Providence/USC to Orlando in place of Norwoord U, but you cant move Norwood to face Creighton, or switch to KState, since they played Cincinnati this year.
It sucks, but when you get down to 7 thru 10 seeds, the top of the bracket (P5/BE) have been placed, so you have to fit in the rest of these P5's and better RPI 7-9 conferences teams with regards to seeding considerations.
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03-15-2017, 11:15 AM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Yes, because you've played and beat teams of that caliber since then, oh, wait...
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Don't be a d*ck to our guests. You're representing UD on here.
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03-15-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by UD90
AndShock,
That was a much less pompous way to introduce yourself than LongTimeShocker did to the board. Witchita State has our respect. We expect the same. We know they are very good against 30 of the 34 teams they've played.
I rather play any of the 8/9s than Witchita, but understand this Dayton team can beat anyone when they feel challenged. In one sense the disrespect the media is throwing is to our advantage.
Good luck. I expect a battle.
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I don't see anything pompous about his post at all. I actually really appreciate his take and rundown of his team. I think he was fair with his evaluation of all the players. It wasn't all rainbows and unicorns in his evaluation.
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03-15-2017, 11:43 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
Not pointed directly at you, CE80, but here is what irks me. Here is what people have been saying...
If the NCAA if two mid-majors are placed against each other, it's the P5 bias getting rid of any mid-majors that have a chance.
If the NCAA/NIT pits a P5 against a mid-major, it's the P5's way of getting rid of the mid-majors by beating up on them.
We can't have it both ways.
In the NCAA, ignore the first round 1 thru 5 vs 16 thru 12, as those are almost all P5/BE vs bottom 20 one-bid conferences. That leaves us the 6/11, 7/10, and 8/9 games. There are 4 of each, for a total of 12 games.
P5/BE vs P5/BE: 8/9, 8/9, 8/9, 8/9 (SetonHall), 7/10(Marq), 7/10, 6/11 (Prov), 6/11(Norwood),
Mid vs Mid: 7 (StMarys)/10(VCU), 7(Day)/10(WichSt)
P5/BE vs Mid: 6/11 (URI), 6 (Cincy)/11
Maybe they could have found a way to send OkSt (10) to Salt Lake City, and send VCU (10) to Indianapolis to face Michigan. Unfortunately, URI is in Michigan's bracket, so that would be a 3rd round A10/A10 matchup, and they try to spread teams around. As well, if they attempt to swap OkSt with WichSt, OkSt would have a 3rd round matchup with KState.
Maybe you could swap URI (11) to Tulsa for Providence/USC (11), then move Providence/USC to Orlando in place of Norwoord U, but you cant move Norwood to face Creighton, or switch to KState, since they played Cincinnati this year.
It sucks, but when you get down to 7 thru 10 seeds, the top of the bracket (P5/BE) have been placed, so you have to fit in the rest of these P5's and better RPI 7-9 conferences teams with regards to seeding considerations.
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I don't take offense at all because I do think of the other side of the WSU - UD matchup that guarantees one of them will continue but I truly do not believe that is at all the thought behind it. I am usually not a conspiracy theorist but I do believe there is thought behind the seeding so these types of matchups can be created. Sure, I have no way to prove it but I think it is too coincidental that the VCU-St Marys and UD-WSU matchups occurred.
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03-15-2017, 11:44 AM
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Colonel
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Thanks Figgie - I have the same feeling, just not as analytical. If they split on the 7/10 match ups to be P5 vs other, the others could be completely eliminated first round. The way it is guarantees a non-P5/BE team moving into the second round. So there is a second school of thought. I doubt the committee is really looking at that aspect though and is more inclined to keep repeat match ups from happening first as you stated.
It is a bummer to get WSU first game since they are a team I would be inclined to root for during the tourney if they weren't playing us.
This is an interesting matchup and a tough one for us. WSU has the roster to give us problems, but they also haven't been hit with a team that plays tough D and can run and gun with them.
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03-15-2017, 11:49 AM
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Just off the Jet
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Originally Posted by bhflyer5
Don't be a d*ck to our guests. You're representing UD on here.
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I didn't take any offense to the first couple of posts in response to mine. I've made similar posts on opponent message boards before - typically for tourney teams where there's little familiarity with WSU's players.
It's my experience that fans who are confident in their players and team come back with something like "We should match up really well. Glad to see we have an opponent that can give our guys a good game. Looking forward to watching the game. Thanks for the info".
Fans who lack confidence in their team or players, or who lack optimism in the outcome of the game are less receptive to information about the team they will be facing.
There are both types on all message boards.
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03-15-2017, 12:00 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
This is an interesting matchup and a tough one for us. WSU has the roster to give us problems, but they also haven't been hit with a team that plays tough D and can run and gun with them.
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The Shocks have seen tough D in the Valley especially from Illinios State so i'm not worried about that.
I'm much more concerned about how we handle your offense. I haven't seen much of the Flyers but from what I understand of your offense you play small and spread the floor with good shooters all over the place and that outside threat opens up space inside for your forwards. This forces the defense to pick their poison. Please correct me if i'm misunderstand your offensive system. The team from the MVC that this sounds like is Loyola-Chicago and their offense gave us fits at times so I am a bit concerned.
As far as matchups the player I foresee having his way with your defense is Shaq Morris. He's 6'8" 265lbs and a fellow his size has no business being as agile as he is. He is also a good passer and can make teams pay for doubling him. How you handle him will be the most intriguing matchup for me personally.
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03-15-2017, 12:09 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
As far as matchups the player I foresee having his way with your defense is Shaq Morris. He's 6'8" 265lbs and a fellow his size has no business being as agile as he is. He is also a good passer and can make teams pay for doubling him. How you handle him will be the most intriguing matchup for me personally.
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The Flyers had a big guy about 6' 11" and a bit heavier. We called him "Big Steve". Unfortunately we lost him last spring. RIP #5
That would of been a very good match up with your guy.
As our coach Archie says "Next man up". We will try to do the best we can against him.
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03-15-2017, 12:24 PM
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Just off the Jet
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
The Shocks have seen tough D in the Valley especially from Illinios State so i'm not worried about that.
I'm much more concerned about how we handle your offense. I haven't seen much of the Flyers but from what I understand of your offense you play small and spread the floor with good shooters all over the place and that outside threat opens up space inside for your forwards. This forces the defense to pick their poison. Please correct me if i'm misunderstand your offensive system. The team from the MVC that this sounds like is Loyola-Chicago and their offense gave us fits at times so I am a bit concerned.
As far as matchups the player I foresee having his way with your defense is Shaq Morris. He's 6'8" 265lbs and a fellow his size has no business being as agile as he is. He is also a good passer and can make teams pay for doubling him. How you handle him will be the most intriguing matchup for me personally.
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Stop Scoochie Smith and you win. The issue here is that teams have a very hard time doing that. See below.
https://www.facebook.com/CBSSports/v...4685898606773/
Will Wade: Who wants to guard Scoochie?! Can anyone guard Scoochie?! Who?!
VCU Player: Me!
Will Wade: You have 2 fouls! Anyone else?! Who can guard Scoochie?!
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03-15-2017, 12:31 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
In the NCAA, ignore the first round 1 thru 5 vs 16 thru 12, as those are almost all P5/BE vs bottom 20 one-bid conferences. That leaves us the 6/11, 7/10, and 8/9 games. There are 4 of each, for a total of 12 games.
P5/BE vs P5/BE: 8/9, 8/9, 8/9, 8/9 (SetonHall), 7/10(Marq), 7/10, 6/11 (Prov), 6/11(Norwood),
Mid vs Mid: 7 (StMarys)/10(VCU), 7(Day)/10(WichSt)
P5/BE vs Mid: 6/11 (URI), 6 (Cincy)/11
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Okay, you threw me there, because Cincy isn't P5 nor BE. But you meant to put Creighton I'm sure.
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03-15-2017, 12:33 PM
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I know the guy takes hits here and at times he bothers me too ... however I get the feeling in this one instance he seems to be an Archie fan AND he met Big Steve and came away impressed. He spoke his mind about #5 and the program. It was all good out of his mouth.
Heh! I will take what ever I can get from this guy.
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03-15-2017, 12:37 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by PFlyer
Stop Scoochie Smith and you win. The issue here is that teams have a very hard time doing that. See below.
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I would guess Zach Brown will be used to guard Scoochie. He's a 6'6" SF and is typically used on either the top scorer or to "cut the head off the snake" if its not the same guy.
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03-15-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
The Flyers had a big guy about 6' 11" and a bit heavier. We called him "Big Steve". Unfortunately we lost him last spring. RIP #5
That would of been a very good match up with your guy.
As our coach Archie says "Next man up". We will try to do the best we can against him.
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That was truly a heartbreaking story and yes it would have been quite the matchup. Its always very tragic to lose someone so young.
We very nearly lost a player to a previously unknown heart condition a few years back. He collapsed during fall practice and the team trainer saved his life with a defibrillator. He was lucky that it happened at school and not at home.
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03-15-2017, 12:47 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
In the NCAA, ignore the first round 1 thru 5 vs 16 thru 12, as those are almost all P5/BE vs bottom 20 one-bid conferences. That leaves us the 6/11, 7/10, and 8/9 games. There are 4 of each, for a total of 12 games.
P5/BE vs P5/BE: 8/9, 8/9, 8/9, 8/9 (SetonHall), 7/10(Marq), 7/10, 6/11 (Prov), 6/11(Norwood),
Mid vs Mid: 7 (StMarys)/10(VCU), 7(Day)/10(WichSt)
P5/BE vs Mid: 6/11 (URI), 6 (Cincy)/11
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Okay, you threw me there, because Cincy isn't P5 nor BE. But you meant to put Creighton I'm sure.
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No, I meant Cincy. Cincy is the "Mid" in that matchup, being from the AAC. Their opponent is Kansas St (beating Wake last night). Creighton is URI's #6 matchup.
My listing of the P5 schools included BE since they got 7/10 into the field, but they are sort of in between the P5's and Mid's in certain people's minds.
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03-15-2017, 12:54 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Prediction- The first team to play zone, losses the game!
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Just wait: Miller's going to unleash the zone with a full court press chaser. UD fans won't know how to respond.
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03-15-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
No, I meant Cincy. Cincy is the "Mid" in that matchup, being from the AAC. Their opponent is Kansas St (beating Wake last night). Creighton is URI's #6 matchup.
My listing of the P5 schools included BE since they got 7/10 into the field, but they are sort of in between the P5's and Mid's in certain people's minds.
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Okay, got ya, I thought you were listing full matchups.
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03-15-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
The Shocks have seen tough D in the Valley especially from Illinios State so i'm not worried about that.
I'm much more concerned about how we handle your offense. I haven't seen much of the Flyers but from what I understand of your offense you play small and spread the floor with good shooters all over the place and that outside threat opens up space inside for your forwards. This forces the defense to pick their poison. Please correct me if i'm misunderstand your offensive system. The team from the MVC that this sounds like is Loyola-Chicago and their offense gave us fits at times so I am a bit concerned.
As far as matchups the player I foresee having his way with your defense is Shaq Morris. He's 6'8" 265lbs and a fellow his size has no business being as agile as he is. He is also a good passer and can make teams pay for doubling him. How you handle him will be the most intriguing matchup for me personally.
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The big athletic guy in the middle is what I am most worried about. We have had trouble at times getting boards when we needed them. Hopefully with Cunningham back (you should remember him from his Bradley days) we can get around that a bit.
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03-15-2017, 01:14 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
The big athletic guy in the middle is what I am most worried about. We have had trouble at times getting boards when we needed them. Hopefully with Cunningham back (you should remember him from his Bradley days) we can get around that a bit.
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I forgot Josh played against WSU previously.
First meeting - a 63-42 road loss - he was 2/6 for 10 pts and 4 rebounds.
Second meeting a 62-59 home loss - he was 2/9 (0/6 form 3) for 4 pts and 6 rebounds
He did not play in their game in the MVC tourney.
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03-15-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I forgot Josh played against WSU previously.
First meeting - a 63-42 road loss - he was 2/6 for 10 pts and 4 rebounds.
Second meeting a 62-59 home loss - he was 2/9 (0/6 form 3) for 4 pts and 6 rebounds
He did not play in their game in the MVC tourney.
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Wow I am surprised Josh took that many 3's.
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03-15-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
No, I meant Cincy. Cincy is the "Mid" in that matchup, being from the AAC. Their opponent is Kansas St (beating Wake last night). Creighton is URI's #6 matchup.
My listing of the P5 schools included BE since they got 7/10 into the field, but they are sort of in between the P5's and Mid's in certain people's minds.
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They've always been a power-conference in hoops in my mind. Every conference has its outliers. If UD ever gets into that conference it will make UD better. Some here it seem to think we'd improve the conference from the start, or worse, that the BE doesn't deserve UD at all. Definitely lacking in fair appraisal on this board..iyam..
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03-15-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
We probably couldn't get that last away/neutral game worked out with somebody this year. Either nobody wanted to give us a return game or the dates didn't work out. This has happened a couple times in the past because coach Marshall refuses to do buy games.
We had to schedule the extra home game against a DII school just to fill in the hole in the schedule since it was to late to get a D1 matchup.
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I do not understand what you mean by Marshall not wanting buy games? It looks like WSU plays at least a few buy games every year.
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03-15-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I do not understand what you mean by Marshall not wanting buy games? It looks like WSU plays at least a few buy games every year.
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I think he means WSU being paid to play. If you read their board, there is a huge debate on WSU going on the road as the team being paid to play the game.
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03-15-2017, 02:10 PM
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Question for WSU guest - we have played the whole year with players out or coming back not at 100%. Have you had players out during the season and how healthy are you right now? Thank you.
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03-15-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Wow I am surprised Josh took that many 3's.
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There was a reason they let him take that many 3s.
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03-15-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
Question for WSU guest - we have played the whole year with players out or coming back not at 100%. Have you had players out during the season and how healthy are you right now? Thank you.
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We haven't had a lot of injuries this year thankfully. *knocks on wood*
Shaq Morris (6'8" Jr C) was hobbled in a few games at the end of non conference play and ended up missing 2 or 3 games at the start of conference play.
Austin Reaves (6'5" Fr G) dislocated his shoulder against Michigan State in late November and again midway thru conference play. He has been less aggressive and less effective since the second dislocation. Austin has had shoulder issues for a long time and has had surgery on both shoulders in high school. He will likely need surgery again after the season.
Right now we are as close to 100% healthy as we are going to get. Having a week and a half off after the conference tournament certainly helps that. Coach Marshall did mention that there were some big league collisions among the big guys in practice last week so hopefully there's no fallout from that.
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03-15-2017, 06:43 PM
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I will also mention that our leading scorer, Markis McDuffie, had surgery late August to repair a torn meniscus. While he didn't miss games (he even played with the tear in a trip to Canada), it is fair to say that he took a while to recover all of his athleticism.
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03-15-2017, 07:47 PM
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Why are we humoring this crap? I mean, we are clearly already beat.
I got this sense from their fans at The First Four when they came through. What a...
Shocker!
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03-15-2017, 08:32 PM
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I got a feeling they haven't seen toughness like Dayton will show them. I think it's the difference. These seniors will have four NCAA tourneys under their belt and that's a lot of experience. But it's the jimmies and joes not the x's and o's. So we'll see which team is more qualified to advance on Friday.
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03-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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I like all 4 seniors scored in double digits against VCU who is a tough interior team and we only lost the rebound battle by 2. We are going to need that type of game again on Friday to win. We won't win the offensive boards but we need to win the defensive rebound battle and get out and run.
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03-15-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
Why are we humoring this crap? I mean, we are clearly already beat.
I got this sense from their fans at The First Four when they came through. What a...
Shocker!
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OMG, this article about the Shockers actually says the real test comes in the round of 32.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...llas-slippers/
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03-15-2017, 09:36 PM
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Been reading this thread for a while. Went over to the WS thread. Generally very dismissive of the team and the fans. Lots of talk about the great second line of players, dominant front court, etc.
Anyone go look at that league? Yeesh. Look at the OOC results beyond the top two teams! Absolutely brutal. Yep, thrashing (or is it threshing?) that league is the stuff of legend. Illinois State? Illinois F@@king State? Really? That's #2? I'm sure those teams have some elite 6-10 players, and I'll bet the WS guys really have honed their skills in the heat of a close game. I just don't know how our guys will survive.
In spite of all this dynasty of domination, I suspect Archie will reluctantly load the guys up on the bus, and head to Indy. Heck our guys might even get there in time to start the game. Perhaps we might be motivated after a full week of talking heads buying into the WS juggernaut. Maybe, there might be a little motivation with Big Steve's mom in the house. We might even play a little defense. Who knows, our guys may not melt after their 4th STRAIGHT TRIP. Maybe WS will practice their game plan against Kentucky this week. Who knows, experience in this limelight might actually mean something in non MVC games.
Yep, we're over matched, not physical or deep enough, and waaaaaay over seeded.
We're going to beat them. Don't be shocked.
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03-15-2017, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
I got a feeling they haven't seen toughness like Dayton will show them. I think it's the difference. These seniors will have four NCAA tourneys under their belt and that's a lot of experience. But it's the jimmies and joes not the x's and o's. So we'll see which team is more qualified to advance on Friday.
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We don't have any Seniors in our rotation but we do have several Juniors that each have 5 to 6 games of NCAA experience so I feel confident WSU will not be overwhelmed.
I actually hate to see stuff like this. The publicity is good for WSU but the baseball player in me is superstitious enough to worry that we're being jinxed. Excuse me while I offer Jobu some rum and sacrifice a chicken.
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03-15-2017, 09:58 PM
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I just wanted to say thanks to the Shocker fans who have stopped by and given us good insight into your program. For the most part you have all taken the high road both on this site as well as your own when discussing the upcoming battle. After the game on Friday when you all get back home to Kansas on Saturday (read into that what you want!), please put some pressure on your AD and coach to toughen up the schedule and come visit us folks here in Dayton Ohio next December for the start of a yearly home and home series. Remember, your road loss here next year will still help out your RPI!
Good luck y'all!
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03-15-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
...please put some pressure on your AD and coach to toughen up the schedule and come visit us folks here in Dayton Ohio next December for the start of a yearly home and home series. Remember, your road loss here next year will still help out your RPI!
Good luck y'all!
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Watch the handshake line at the end of the game. That will be our best clue if a h/h can be arranged. I'd be delighted to see a good h/h start on the road next year. We've got ecerybody back (make of that what you will).
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03-15-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
. We've got ecerybody back (make of that what you will).
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We got Archie & staff (make of that what you will)
Checkmate
Last edited by ClaytonFlyerFan; 03-16-2017 at 12:02 AM..
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03-16-2017, 02:47 PM
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Another question...who were the fastest 2-3 teams you played this year? How does your team handle both offensively fast teams and how does WSU handle speed and active hands that apply defensive pressure? Not talking full court presses here. I'm talking aggressive defense in a half court set. Thanks.
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03-16-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
We got Archie & staff (make of that what you will)
Checkmate
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In Archie I trust, but also a year, maybe two ago when everyone was speculating about some job opening and if Archie was interested, I posted stats about Gregg Marshall and his credentials are better than Archie's. He's been around longer, but on most list I think he would be above Archie. Some exception if Archie has a tie to that particular school. Otherwise Marshallhas more chips right now.
One more reason to like this game. Would love for Archie to out-coach Marshall and win. Nothing like a head to head match up to prove your hypothisis. Of course WSU will discount it as we have more seniors, but take note, they aren't discounting anything right now. They are jumping on the media and Vegas bandwagon and riding it. I'm okay with that.
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03-16-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
Another question...who were the fastest 2-3 teams you played this year? How does your team handle both offensively fast teams and how does WSU handle speed and active hands that apply defensive pressure? Not talking full court presses here. I'm talking aggressive defense in a half court set. Thanks.
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As far as offensively fast teams I think of Oklahoma State and Loyola. Our young guards did not not handle OSU well at all. They did play well against Loyola during conference play.
For the defensive part of your question I would say OSU, Illinois State, and Loyola to a lesser extent. OSU has since changed their defense but against us they were extremely aggressive and again our guards did poorly although the big guys played well. We played ISU 3 times and struggled in the first game. Right after that game we switched up the guards and played very well in the 2 other games with ISU (we won by a combined total of 61) and the 2 games against Loyola.
Last edited by WheatShock; 03-16-2017 at 03:17 PM..
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03-16-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff
Maybe WS will practice their game plan against Kentucky this week.
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Somebody's wearing their WWECD (What Would Ed Cooley Do) bracelet while typing.
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03-16-2017, 04:00 PM
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[QUOTE=CBB_Fan;496190]I will also mention that our leading scorer, Markis McDuffie, had surgery late August to repair a torn meniscus. While he didn't miss games (he even played with the tear in a trip to Canada), it is fair to say that he took a while to recover all of his athleticism.
CBB-fan: Since you brought up your Canada trip in August, tell us how you feel about your coach's blow-up behavior on that trip? What was your perception? What is the likelihood that Marshall could be gigged into act like that again and getting a technical foul. Getting a technical foul out of an opposing head coach has always been an unmentioned objective of student's some of whom would be considered part of the red scare.
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03-16-2017, 04:06 PM
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I ask the above question with a smile as we all know that Archie is one of the most intense coaches you will see on the sidelines. But, we have never seen Archie act up like Marshall did on that Canadian trip and then respond to the media after game like that?
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03-16-2017, 04:27 PM
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Just off the Jet
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[QUOTE=Buckleyma;496388]
Originally Posted by CBB_Fan
I will also mention that our leading scorer, Markis McDuffie, had surgery late August to repair a torn meniscus. While he didn't miss games (he even played with the tear in a trip to Canada), it is fair to say that he took a while to recover all of his athleticism.
CBB-fan: Since you brought up your Canada trip in August, tell us how you feel about your coach's blow-up behavior on that trip? What was your perception? What is the likelihood that Marshall could be gigged into act like that again and getting a technical foul. Getting a technical foul out of an opposing head coach has always been an unmentioned objective of student's some of whom would be considered part of the red scare.
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First of all, Marshall does not like losing. Picking up a technical was a semi regular occurrence when he was rebuilding our program and he was ejected from one game after picking up two technicals. We were bad on that Canada trip. I can't remember what we went but it was like 2-2 or 1-2 or something like that to teams who certainly weren't all-stars. We were losing the game he blew up in. I don't think he has received a technical in a normal game in 5+ years, maybe longer. Part of that is because we don't lose that much. In this specific instance, Marshall felt like his players were getting beat up and cheap shotted and the refs weren't doing anything about it. Combine that with the frustration of losing and you got that result. At the time it happened, I was extremely embarrassed and if you look at the ShockerNet thread from when it happened you would find much of the same sentiment. Since some time has passed, I still think it's a bad look but I'm not near as off put by it as I was. Should Gregg be doing stuff like that on a normal basis? Definitely not. I do think it ended up being a good bonding moment for the team and in the end it probably made us better. Probably got us banned from Canada in the process though.
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03-16-2017, 04:48 PM
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Academy Doolie
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[QUOTE=Buckleyma;496388]
Originally Posted by CBB_Fan
I will also mention that our leading scorer, Markis McDuffie, had surgery late August to repair a torn meniscus. While he didn't miss games (he even played with the tear in a trip to Canada), it is fair to say that he took a while to recover all of his athleticism.
CBB-fan: Since you brought up your Canada trip in August, tell us how you feel about your coach's blow-up behavior on that trip? What was your perception? What is the likelihood that Marshall could be gigged into act like that again and getting a technical foul. Getting a technical foul out of an opposing head coach has always been an unmentioned objective of student's some of whom would be considered part of the red scare.
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma
I ask the above question with a smile as we all know that Archie is one of the most intense coaches you will see on the sidelines. But, we have never seen Archie act up like Marshall did on that Canadian trip and then respond to the media after game like that?
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To add to what And Shock said about Canada there was A LOT of really hard fouls in that game. One of our centers ended up with a concussion and needed stitches early in the game and the hard fouls continued. The final straw was one of our forwards getting undercut on a rebound and going down hard with no call.
It wasn't the greatest look for Marshall or WSU but he didn't hit anybody and was standing up for his players so the whole thing really doesn't bother me that much. In the end I think it brought the team closer together and the players know their coach has their back. It reminds me of the way my high school baseball coach reacted when I got blown up at the plate with a late takeout slide twice in the same game, I would run through walls for that man.
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03-16-2017, 05:22 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
In Archie I trust, but also a year, maybe two ago when everyone was speculating about some job opening and if Archie was interested, I posted stats about Gregg Marshall and his credentials are better than Archie's. He's been around longer, but on most list I think he would be above Archie. Some exception if Archie has a tie to that particular school. Otherwise Marshallhas more chips right now.
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Becky, please do not let actual facts get in the way of my trash talking
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03-16-2017, 05:56 PM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Becky, please do not let actual facts get in the way of my trash talking
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Talk away
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03-16-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
In Archie I trust, but also a year, maybe two ago when everyone was speculating about some job opening and if Archie was interested, I posted stats about Gregg Marshall and his credentials are better than Archie's. He's been around longer, but on most list I think he would be above Archie. Some exception if Archie has a tie to that particular school. Otherwise Marshall has more chips right now.
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Agree. Gregg Marshall to Indiana!
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03-16-2017, 07:55 PM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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His son goes to WSU. His daughter is a junior in high school with one year left. But at that age I would think she could stay back in Wichita and live with family friends to finish???
So maybe it's time he goes to the next level. if not this year, then next and that helps use hang on to Archie a little longer????
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03-16-2017, 08:10 PM
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General of the Air Force
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I want Marshal to stay @ WSU. I want Archie to stay @ UD. Screw the big programs, the grass is not always greener on the other side as both these coaches are smart enough to figure out. Stay where your at, toughen up our conference affiliations (eliminate dead weight or form new power conference), schedule smarter OOC games, and keep dancing every March.
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03-16-2017, 08:17 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Should be a good game. Clearly Dayton is the underdog despite having the higher seed. But it's not like Dayton has no chance. Go Flyers!
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03-17-2017, 04:39 PM
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Major General
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No Matter What
Win or Lose This is a good game for both programs.
One of those games that the talking heads and sans experts discussed since that time on Sunday these 2 teams were matched up.
The fact that (unless it has changed) the A Level announcers for CBS is calling this game on CBS (no cable, no internet only feeds). Prime time.
I just wish this had been a regular season OOC home and away game. Don't even care who would have gone first. Both fan bases would enjoy.
As discussed within this forum .... pitting 2 non-P5 teams against each other in the round of 64 instead of having each of us battle some P5 school (not the blue bloods) is a tragedy.
See you on the other side of the game.
Go UD. Go Flyers.
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03-17-2017, 05:34 PM
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Major
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
His son goes to WSU. His daughter is a junior in high school with one year left. But at that age I would think she could stay back in Wichita and live with family friends to finish???
So maybe it's time he goes to the next level. if not this year, then next and that helps use hang on to Archie a little longer????
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He and his family are considering the rest of their lives. I think it is not a determining factor. IMHO.
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03-17-2017, 09:42 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Great game by both teams! Ya'll have one tenacious defense and had a great game plan. We needed someone other than the usual suspect to get past you.
Its a shame the committee hosed both teams by matching us up this early. I hope Gregg and Archie are able to work out some future matchups.
Tip of the hat to your seniors, they are outstanding.
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03-17-2017, 09:45 PM
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Colonel
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Hey Shocker Fan,
**** off. Take your patronizing **** to your own board and celebrate beating a better team. I hope Kentucky beats you by 45.
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03-17-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
Great game by both teams! Ya'll have one tenacious defense and had a great game plan. We needed someone other than the usual suspect to get past you.
Its a shame the committee hosed both teams by matching us up this early. I hope Gregg and Archie are able to work out some future matchups.
Tip of the hat to your seniors, they are outstanding.
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Congrats and good luck on Sunday. Game was tied heading into "winning time" - that's when Flyers usually excel. But Shockers clearly played better down the stretch.
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03-17-2017, 09:48 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by sheg
Hey Shocker Fan,
**** off. Take your patronizing **** to your own board and celebrate beating a better team. I hope Kentucky beats you by 45.
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Wow - we are all upset about losing the game, but let's be better fans than that.
The Shocker fans on our boards were polite all week - and he reached out to say good game.
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03-17-2017, 09:48 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by WheatShock
Great game by both teams! Ya'll have one tenacious defense and had a great game plan. We needed someone other than the usual suspect to get past you.
Its a shame the committee hosed both teams by matching us up this early. I hope Gregg and Archie are able to work out some future matchups.
Tip of the hat to your seniors, they are outstanding.
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Speaking of defense...
Best we've faced all year. Excellent halftime adjustment on Scooch. You completely shut down Cooke. The sequence late in the second half where we had like five shots from point blank and came up empty was the second half in microcosm.
Congrats & beat UK
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03-17-2017, 09:49 PM
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Or, Shegfan, you can be a good sport and wish WSU well. WSU is a good team and I hope they kick the snot out of UK
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03-17-2017, 09:58 PM
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Good luck to the Shockers. I hope you beat KY by 46, and go to the Final4. You earned this one today against a very good Dayton team.
Your guards will be seeing Scoochie and Kyle in their sleep, and your bigs will be wondering why Dayton had no bigs.
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03-17-2017, 10:02 PM
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Shegfan, what pathetic response by you to a well intended compliment to the Flyer effort. Embarrassed to have you in our fan base. Fortunately, you are a minority, as most Flyer fans are classy.
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03-17-2017, 10:05 PM
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Some strong language by sheg? Yes. But seriously. Celebrate on your own board is right. Or do we honestly think that WheatShock's post wasn't self-serving or rubbing salt in the wound at all? Really? Come over tomorrow. Or better yet after your game against UK. But not now.
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03-17-2017, 10:07 PM
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Bad form Sheg, really bad. But I agree about one thing, I thought we were the slightly better team. If anyone besides Scoochie shows up offensively we win the game.
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03-17-2017, 10:09 PM
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Let's stop being snowflakes. Win with class and lose with class. Dayton lost, period. Just thank the man and move on.
Good luck to the Shockers.
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03-17-2017, 10:15 PM
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Two plays where refs $/%00€#=) the pooch: Kyle, clean steal, WSU grabbed his arm, foul on Kyle.
Kyle, clean block with 2 on shot clock, foul on Kyle.
Come back tomorrow with your opinion on Flyers and how they played, Shocker Fan, right now I'm P! $$=).
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03-17-2017, 10:24 PM
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Kyle
The 2 calls on Kyle were really bad. Kyle makes terrific defensive plays and the ref bails out the offensive player. We may not have played well enough offensively to deserve the win, with CC3 and X not showing up, but anything can happen if the ref makes the correct call on those plays.
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03-17-2017, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
Two plays where refs $/%00€#=) the pooch: Kyle, clean steal, WSU grabbed his arm, foul on Kyle.
Kyle, clean block with 2 on shot clock, foul on Kyle.
Come back tomorrow with your opinion on Flyers and how they played, Shocker Fan, right now I'm P! $$=).
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As bad as the refs were, it was the rebounding that did the Flyers in, period. I think going back to the question the other day of which former Flyer you'd like to have, anyone who didn't say Ryan Perryman take a seat. This was as bad of an effort rebounding as you may ever see and it cost them the game.
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03-17-2017, 10:31 PM
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Great game. Hat's off to the Shockers. I thought we would win. I was wrong. Good luck against UK. Congratulations to our seniors too. I will miss them for sure
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03-17-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LongTimeShocker
Watch the handshake line at the end of the game. That will be our best clue if a h/h can be arranged. I'd be delighted to see a good h/h start on the road next year. We've got ecerybody back (make of that what you will).
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I posted this in the game thread but it looked like Marshall said to Archie "great ****ing game, we need to play this game every year."
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03-17-2017, 11:06 PM
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Academy Doolie
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
I posted this in the game thread but it looked like Marshall said to Archie "great ****ing game, we need to play this game every year."
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I hope so. It'll be a crying shame if we go 50 years again before the next meeting.
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