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  #201  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:49 PM
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not reading tea leaves here, but:
if Jalen wants a trip to the NCAA,
if that is what he wants why go to Memphis
when he can stay right here?

with covid making international unsure,
he might love staying here and
helping the recruits and transfers
become something here, after this
past season....

anything is possible, seems to me...
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  #202  
Old 04-09-2021, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
not reading tea leaves here, but:
if Jalen wants a trip to the NCAA,
if that is what he wants why go to Memphis
when he can stay right here?

with covid making international unsure,
he might love staying here and
helping the recruits and transfers
become something here, after this
past season....

anything is possible, seems to me...
Memphis had no seniors this past season so they most likely have the nucleus of the team that was one of, if not the very last out of NCAA tournament returning and PG was their biggest weakness. Memphis is his home town and the school he wanted to play for but didn't want him 4 years ago. The coach is a long time friend and mentor.

Dayton was one of if not the last team in the NIT. Flyers are most likely losing 3/5 of their starting lineup if Jalen would choose to stay. The 2021-2022 Dayton Flyers are one huge question mark.
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  #203  
Old 04-09-2021, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Memphis had no seniors this past season so they most likely have the nucleus of the team that was one of, if not the very last out of NCAA tournament returning and PG was their biggest weakness. Memphis is his home town and the school he wanted to play for but didn't want him 4 years ago. The coach is a long time friend and mentor.

Dayton was one of if not the last team in the NIT. Flyers are most likely losing 3/5 of their starting lineup if Jalen would choose to stay. The 2021-2022 Dayton Flyers are one huge question mark.
Memphis did not graduate anyone, but 3 of their starters transferred along with some bench players.
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  #204  
Old 04-09-2021, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Boroflyerfan01 View Post
Memphis did not graduate anyone, but 3 of their starters transferred along with some bench players.
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Okay, didn't know that. That does change things as far as Jalen going to his hometown school. But I'll bet before this is over, he enters his name for the NBA draft.
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  #205  
Old 04-09-2021, 06:15 PM
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his role would not be 35 plus minutes
a game.. it would be to polish and mentor
the young guns coming in...

why would we lose 3/5 players, are you
guessing? they would have a very good
mentor, and he could rid the taste
of this past year out of everyone's mouth..

a good motivator is always: REDEMPTION

it would have to be approved by CAG,
and he would have an idea how the team
would think of it, but not impossible...
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  #206  
Old 04-09-2021, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
his role would not be 35 plus minutes
a game.. it would be to polish and mentor
the young guns coming in...

why would we lose 3/5 players, are you
guessing? they would have a very good
mentor, and he could rid the taste
of this past year out of everyone's mouth..

a good motivator is always: REDEMPTION

it would have to be approved by CAG,
and he would have an idea how the team
would think of it, but not impossible...
Jordy, Rodney and Ibi. And if you think Jalen and someone else is staying, I got some swamp land for sale at a great price.

When are you going to learn to trust me? I had to talk you down in your hopes that Obi would return last year and save you deep disappointment.

And one other thing, Jalen is a basketball PLAYER. Not a basketball TEACHER.

Last edited by Smitty10; 04-09-2021 at 06:45 PM..
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  #207  
Old 04-09-2021, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Jordy, Rodney and Ibi. And if you think Jalen and someone else is staying, I got some swamp land for sale at a great price.

When are you going to learn to trust me? I had to talk you down in your hopes that Obi would return last year and save you deep disappointment.

And one other thing, Jalen is a basketball PLAYER. Not a basketball TEACHER.
you did not have to talk me down,
it was simply wishing... stop patting
yourself on the back..

now then, I never have said Jalen
and someone else.. I'm pondering Jalen
you just write
we were the last team invited to the
NIT... that could be a motivator right there..

until it is not possible, it is possible...
makes sense to me:
instead of going to Memphis,
stay here instead and help...

his NBA draft potential is not impossible,
but it took a major hit this year... I would
suggest if you think Jalen will be drafted
I have some swamp land to sell you..

Last edited by steverino015; 04-09-2021 at 07:00 PM..
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  #208  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:02 PM
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staying could help build his potential
NBA draft stock up... there are reasons
one might stay, is all I am saying...

not out of the question IMO
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  #209  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, didn't know that. That does change things as far as Jalen going to his hometown school. But I'll bet before this is over, he enters his name for the NBA draft.
I thought there is a grace period to withdraw that decision unless he hired an agent. So it's almost a given that he enters the daft. Nothing to lose.

An agent has connections that will get him a good look if not drafted. Roberts seemed to have an agent that helped him devise alternate pathways.

Jalen has to get looks. It didn't help that he was the leader in the clubhouse going into this
twisted basketball season. And then had Bones run away with the POY. Jason needs another stage than NCAA.
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  #210  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:08 PM
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when can recruits begin practicing?
1 more scholarship available for a
transfer...

Last edited by steverino015; 04-09-2021 at 07:36 PM..
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  #211  
Old 04-10-2021, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
when can recruits begin practicing?
1 more scholarship available for a
transfer...
Not until they enroll, which I think is typically second summer session. But instruction is somewhat limited during the summer. They can get some individual instruction and weight room time, but I don't think there's any team practices or at least very limited. Real practice doesn't start until fall.
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  #212  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Not until they enroll, which I think is typically second summer session. But instruction is somewhat limited during the summer. They can get some individual instruction and weight room time, but I don't think there's any team practices or at least very limited. Real practice doesn't start until fall.
thanks TxFlyerFan!

we have 1 more available spot for
a transfer... still some on our
radar I would think...)
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  #213  
Old 04-10-2021, 10:24 AM
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If I were CAG, Iíd hold the last scholarship unless there is a player at the same level as Camara or Holmes wanting to join.

If they fill the last scholarship there will be no scholarships available for TWO years. Now, Iím sure someone will transfer out after next year but scholarships are at a premium right now given the current structure of players and their class. That premium demands premium talent...basic supply/demand.
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  #214  
Old 04-10-2021, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
If I were CAG, Iíd hold the last scholarship unless there is a player at the same level as Camara or Holmes wanting to join.

If they fill the last scholarship there will be no scholarships available for TWO years. Now, Iím sure someone will transfer out after next year but scholarships are at a premium right now given the current structure of players and their class. That premium demands premium talent...basic supply/demand.
We would have zero on paper for 2022, but there would three for 2023. If we can someone who can contribute next year, sign me up. The rest will work itself out.
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  #215  
Old 04-10-2021, 07:25 PM
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I doubt we will not have transfers every year moving forward. With the talent level increasing there will be guys that just don't get much playing time. Just the culling of the herd.
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  #216  
Old 04-15-2021, 10:13 PM
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BTW that D2 Transfer Parker Fox, in no surprise he went home and committed to Minnesota

Very happy we didn't wait and extremely excited to land Camara.
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  #217  
Old 04-16-2021, 09:08 AM
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Seth Lundy decides to withdraw from the portal and stay at PSU. Good thing AG didn't wait for him either:


https://victorybellrings.com/2021/04...ansfer-portal/
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  #218  
Old 04-16-2021, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Seth Lundy decides to withdraw from the portal and stay at PSU. Good thing AG didn't wait for him either:


https://victorybellrings.com/2021/04...ansfer-portal/
Doesn't seem to me, and THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, that AG waits for anybody. Seems like he goes after guys he wants and if they decide they want to come he takes them and if you haven't decided yet then you lost your opportunity.
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  #219  
Old 04-16-2021, 10:25 AM
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Summary of DATES (this is my understanding, correct me if I am incorrect):

04/30/21: Last Day of classes at University of Dayton before summer.
05/03/21 through 05/07/21: Exams.
End of May (usually 60 days prior to the NBA draft, date not published): Date deadline to declare for the NBA draft
06/22/21: NBA Draft lottery.
07/01/21: Last date to declare for transfer and take advantage of the ruling that transfers do not have to sit out one year.
07/01/21 thru 07/19/21: voluntary virtual non-physical activities like weight training.
07/19/21: Last date to withdraw from the NBA draft.
07/20/21 till school starts (08/23/21): Required summer athletic activities not to exceed 8 hours per week.
07/29/21: NBA draft
09/15 or first day of school (08/23/21): Begin out-of-season workouts.
October 2021 (42 days prior to first game): First pre-season practices.
November 2021: First games.
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  #220  
Old 04-16-2021, 10:29 AM
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CT hits the pointy thing on the round thing with the really hard thing. If you don't jump on board, you only have a chance until the seat is filled. I like that...a lot. The 2nd best option is better than a desperate option late in the recruiting cycle.
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  #221  
Old 04-16-2021, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Summary of DATES (this is my understanding, correct me if I am incorrect):

04/30/21: Last Day of classes at University of Dayton before summer.
05/03/21 through 05/07/21: Exams.
End of May (usually 60 days prior to the NBA draft, date not published): Date deadline to declare for the NBA draft
06/22/21: NBA Draft lottery.
07/01/21: Last date to declare for transfer and take advantage of the ruling that transfers do not have to sit out one year.
07/01/21 thru 07/19/21: voluntary virtual non-physical activities like weight training.
07/19/21: Last date to withdraw from the NBA draft.
07/20/21 till school starts (08/23/21): Required summer athletic activities not to exceed 8 hours per week.
07/29/21: NBA draft
09/15 or first day of school (08/23/21): Begin out-of-season workouts.
October 2021 (42 days prior to first game): First pre-season practices.
November 2021: First games.
NCAA passed the 1 time transfer rule yesterday. This date no longer applies as long as it is the first time an athlete is transferring to another 4 year institution.
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  #222  
Old 04-17-2021, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
NCAA passed the 1 time transfer rule yesterday. This date no longer applies as long as it is the first time an athlete is transferring to another 4 year institution.
M21eagle45: if the 07/01/21 date no longer applies then there is no longer any period or season for transferring? Does that mean that a transfer could occur at any time as long as there is a scholarship available and the student can get enrolled into classes? For instance, at this date, I just saw a guard from Oklahoma just put his name into the transfer portal.
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Old 04-17-2021, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
M21eagle45: if the 07/01/21 date no longer applies then there is no longer any period or season for transferring? Does that mean that a transfer could occur at any time as long as there is a scholarship available and the student can get enrolled into classes? For instance, at this date, I just saw a guard from Oklahoma just put his name into the transfer portal.
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I don't believe there has ever been a deadline to when a player must transfer by. As long as teams have open scholarships they could take them at any point in the year. If a player enrolled Aug 14 and classes start Aug 15 for the fall semester then under the old rules, they could start practicing with the team Aug 14 and be eligible to play the whole season the next year. If a player transferred after the Add/Drop class deadline, they would have to wait until the start of the next semester to enroll.

With the new rule allowing a 1 time transfer to 4 year institution, a player can enroll Aug 14 and play this upcoming season. If he transfers mid semester, he would be able to start playing at the end of the first semester, similar to Mustapha.
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:00 AM
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has rockets chosen a
college yet?
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  #225  
Old 04-17-2021, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Doesn't seem to me, and THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, that AG waits for anybody. Seems like he goes after guys he wants and if they decide they want to come he takes them and if you haven't decided yet then you lost your opportunity.
Gosh, you are awfully opinionated!
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  #226  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:21 AM
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Wonder if Cohill leaving opens the door for Rocket Watts?

It seems Watts has his sights set higher--the most recent news has him talking with Kentucky--but I'll never count out Grant in a recruiting battle, especially for a transfer.

Watts has a ways to go to fulfill his recruiting potential, but he'd be a huge addition to what would be an incredible roster next year.
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  #227  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:29 AM
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I tend to think that nothing is happening in a vacuum. My guess is that Cohill made his decision after speaking with AG. I would bet that AG suggested that pastures may be greener somewhere else. I would also bet that AG has already had contact with someone who can accept the now available scholarship.
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  #228  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
I tend to think that nothing is happening in a vacuum. My guess is that Cohill made his decision after speaking with AG. I would bet that AG suggested that pastures may be greener somewhere else. I would also bet that AG has already had contact with someone who can accept the now available scholarship.
og my,
so we may hear about someone
say, by the end of next week perhaps?
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  #229  
Old 04-17-2021, 10:52 AM
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Fordham loses Soriano their best player to St. Johnís
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  #230  
Old 04-17-2021, 11:02 AM
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Speaking with another Flyer fan after hearing about Cohill. I asked so is it Tyty or Rocket, and the other fan brought up how Reid put off his decision a day before Cohill announced. Was an interesting point.

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  #231  
Old 04-17-2021, 11:07 AM
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I remember that!
intriguing, to say the least
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  #232  
Old 04-17-2021, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Fordham loses Soriano their best player to St. Johnís
Posted via Mobile Device
I can't say I have a memory of this big guy (6'11") Maybe because he played for Fordham. NY kid. I think it will be very interesting to see what transpires with this. Will he help the Johnnie's? Time will tell. I do feel badly for Fordham. Any decent player they recruit seems to end up somewhere else. We have discussed ad nauseum why Fordham is in the A1-10. Perennial bottom feeder and a place "coaches go to die." It would be great if they could turn things around in the Bronx, but highly unlikely. The new coach goes from the "penthouse (Nova) to the "outhouse" (Fordham). Enough said.
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  #233  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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PSU transfer Isaiah Brockington trimmed his list and UD isn't on it:

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...69248649826307
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  #234  
Old 05-04-2021, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
I can't say I have a memory of this big guy (6'11") Maybe because he played for Fordham. NY kid. I think it will be very interesting to see what transpires with this. Will he help the Johnnie's? Time will tell. I do feel badly for Fordham. Any decent player they recruit seems to end up somewhere else. We have discussed ad nauseum why Fordham is in the A1-10. Perennial bottom feeder and a place "coaches go to die." It would be great if they could turn things around in the Bronx, but highly unlikely. The new coach goes from the "penthouse (Nova) to the "outhouse" (Fordham). Enough said.
he's a good player... this past year as
a sophomore, he nearly averaged a
double/double... 10 pts/9 rebounds a game..
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  #235  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:42 PM
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Jalen just posted on his IG story: "gotta announcement for y'all later stay tuned"

Background picture was UD practice court.
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  #236  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:43 PM
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I wish Jalen the best no matter what he picks but is numbers could look amazing next year with adequate rest time and having guys underneath that can actually catch the ball.
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  #237  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:45 PM
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Boom?!!?
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  #238  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:51 PM
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  #239  
Old 05-04-2021, 04:33 PM
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Boom go ka-boom Good luck Clutch; wishing you the best.
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Old 05-04-2021, 05:02 PM
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best of luck Clutch...

now up to the plate: Ibi and
his decision, haven't heard of
any decision from him..
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  #241  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:20 PM
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Thanks for the memories, Clutch. Best of luck at the next level. Do us proud.
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  #242  
Old 06-06-2021, 10:41 AM
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I see that Tre Mitchell from Massachusetts has still not picked a school. He has announced his top six options. He is so good that schools are leaving a scholarship open for him.
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Old 06-06-2021, 01:30 PM
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so we're done then,
is that right? if nothing else changes
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Old 06-06-2021, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
so we're done then,
is that right? if nothing else changes
Correct - our roster is full / set for this coming school year.
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  #245  
Old 06-07-2021, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I see that Tre Mitchell from Massachusetts has still not picked a school. He has announced his top six options. He is so good that schools are leaving a scholarship open for him.
Posted via Mobile Device
Is it still possible that he is waiting on more NBA feedback?

Or, and I hope not, is he waiting to see if Tony Bergeron gets another job somewhere?
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  #246  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:20 AM
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Any word yet on where Lukas Frazier might land? I donít recall seeing where he announced his intentions.
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  #247  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:56 AM
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Lukas never posted much on social media. I think I have seen only a couple of pictures since he left the team and they had nothing to do with basketball. i don't recall he personally announced he was transferring.
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  #248  
Old 06-07-2021, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Lukas never posted much on social media. I think I have seen only a couple of pictures since he left the team and they had nothing to do with basketball. i don't recall he personally announced he was transferring.
He clearly stated his intention by entering the transfer portal.
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  #249  
Old 06-07-2021, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
He clearly stated his intention by entering the transfer portal.
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Which is precisely why I used the words PERSONALLY ANNOUNCE.
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  #250  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I see that Tre Mitchell from Massachusetts has still not picked a school. He has announced his top six options. He is so good that schools are leaving a scholarship open for him.
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I think he is good enough to go pro.
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  #251  
Old 06-13-2021, 10:12 PM
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From Jon Rothstein

Number of players in the transfer portal:
1,663

Number of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:
580 (35.1%)
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  #252  
Old 06-14-2021, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
From Jon Rothstein

Number of players in the transfer portal:
1,663

Number of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:
580 (35.1%)
If about 1/4 of the scholarship players leave their schools, 1663 is just about half the remaining active scholarship players from last year!

That’s astounding.
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  #253  
Old 06-14-2021, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
If about 1/4 of the scholarship players leave their schools, 1663 is just about half the remaining active scholarship players from last year!

Thatís astounding.
What happens if they are in the pool and are not picked up? Do they return to their previous team? And if they do, it seems like they might not be welcomed back. How does that work? For example, a guy like Luke Frazier, what happens to him?
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  #254  
Old 06-14-2021, 07:39 AM
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I read an article interviewing the UConn Women’s B-ball coach who is not a fan of the brave new transfer world and the portal. He estimates a third of those who enter the portal will not be picked up and will not have their college education paid for after that. If that is how it plays out, I think it will take 3-5 years, but maybe some of these kids will stop and think twice about looking for greener grass.
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  #255  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:53 AM
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This year with all the athletes able to opt for an extra year, and schools already under a financial crunch, many schools have no need to pick up the bottom feeders on the Transfer Portal.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
What happens if they are in the pool and are not picked up? Do they return to their previous team? And if they do, it seems like they might not be welcomed back. How does that work? For example, a guy like Luke Frazier, what happens to him?
They lose their scholarship and are no longer on the team. Itís as if they resigned their position. Thatís why they need to seriously think about the consequences.
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:10 AM
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In theory I guess the players whom have have not been picked up yet can always swallow their pride and drop down to a lower level of competition or play overseas or in a semi-pro league. On the flip side of players debating whether they should transfer or not, do you really want someone sticking around a program which they do not feel or want to be a part of? To be successful you pretty much have to be all in. Like stated above 3 to 5 years from now there will be some good data on how this new transfer thingy is working out for the players and schools.
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  #258  
Old 06-14-2021, 10:25 AM
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One big challenge of the new rules is academic eligibility. The new school must scramble to make sure the players is academically eligible this summer. When players check out of programs, they can check out of classes as well which can create an issue.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
They lose their scholarship and are no longer on the team. Itís as if they resigned their position. Thatís why they need to seriously think about the consequences.
Ouch! Thanks for a clarification.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:07 PM
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All this discussion today about the number of transfers who still have not formally announced the schools to which theyíre transferring reminds me of one of my late motherís favorite ďMom-ismsĒ: donít count your chickens before they hatch. I realize that each situation is different, but for the guys who thought they were ďbetter thanĒ their last program, this could be a real wake-up call that they have some work to do to play at the next level.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:46 PM
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We may not fully recognize how many guys have entered the transfer portal because they're looking to move down in competition. They would rather get playing time in the MEAC than sit the bench in the SEC. A guy would rather play in the Horizon than watch in the A10.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I read an article interviewing the UConn Women’s B-ball coach who is not a fan of the brave new transfer world and the portal. He estimates a third of those who enter the portal will not be picked up and will not have their college education paid for after that. If that is how it plays out, I think it will take 3-5 years, but maybe some of these kids will stop and think twice about looking for greener grass.
I wonder if there's an options strategy here, meaning the stock market version of the idea. When you are coming out of high school you have significant "time value". Volatility increases value, as a coach you can get a guy who MIGHT be a first round NBA pick (Obi). That option contract has value.

After a year, or 3 years, your volatility becomes small. We saw you play against DI competition, we know how good you are. You're not that good. That option contract has much lower value.

Maybe coaches would prefer, at the margin, to pick up a guy who is 6'3" with a dad who is 6'9", and hope for the best instead of picking up a guy who was only about the 4th best player at his A10 school. Sure you take an average team and win an extra game or 2 with that guy, but, that won't bring you glory. Only finding an Obi will bring you glory, and frankly, Chatman isn't that guy most likely. So they take the high school kid.
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  #263  
Old 06-14-2021, 03:50 PM
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I am so ready for practices to begin...

why am I feeling this roster isn't a
finished product yet... we're done
right?
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
I am so ready for practices to begin...

why am I feeling this roster isn't a
finished product yet... we're done
right?
Outside of any unforeseen or unfortunate events - the roster is done / locked down. What you see now - should be what you see in 150 days from now when they start playing games that matter again.
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  #265  
Old 06-14-2021, 06:12 PM
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I am excited with all the young freshman talent and transfers we have coming in joining the returnees in Koby Brea, Elijah Weaver, Zimi Nwokeji, Moulaye Sissoko, R.J. Blakney and Mustapha Amzil.

I think we will be flying under the radar and surprise a few people, especially in the A-10 Conference! The UD Arena will be rocking this season with the pent up energy!
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  #266  
Old 06-14-2021, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
They lose their scholarship and are no longer on the team. Itís as if they resigned their position. Thatís why they need to seriously think about the consequences.
While it isn't the same, this reminds me of when high school players were declaring for the draft that had absolutely no business doing so.

Combining an inflated view of self worth with bad advice from assorted hangers on leads to problems. I think the portal issue will eventually find its water level there is definitely going to be collateral damage on the path there.

I wouldn't be surprised if an enterprising coach at low major finds a way to build a strong season or two as a landing spot for some players that overplayed their hand but are good enough to legitimately contribute to a mid major.
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  #267  
Old 06-20-2021, 03:59 PM
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Tre Mitchell from Massachusetts signed with Texas on 06/19
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Old 06-20-2021, 05:36 PM
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Texas is another team where they're going to need nametags. Chris Beard left Texas Tech this offseason to become the head coach at Texas.
He has landed the following transfers ...
Tre Mitchell, UMass, 18 ppg, 7 rpg
Timmy Allen, Utah, 17-6-4
Dylan Disu, Vanderbilt, 15-9
Christian Bishop, Creighton, 11-6, 68% FG
Devin Askew, Kentucky, 6-3-3
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  #269  
Old 06-20-2021, 07:27 PM
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Probably a very good move for Mitchell. Beard is a good coach, who stands a good chance of making him NBA-ready.
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Old 06-20-2021, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
They lose their scholarship and are no longer on the team. Itís as if they resigned their position. Thatís why they need to seriously think about the consequences.
I'm guessing a majority of the ones still available didn't choose to go.
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Old 06-21-2021, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
They lose their scholarship and are no longer on the team. Itís as if they resigned their position. Thatís why they need to seriously think about the consequences.
I wonder how long it will take for the ďgrass is greenerĒ syndrome and itís consequences to hit home and the portal entries decline. I think itís a two-headed monster. There is the player who thinks heís better than his current coach. He wants a chance to play because he believes he is a super star in the making if he can get minutes. Or he gets upside down with his coach - which happens. Or he finds out heís not ready for the level he thought he was and wants to move ďdownĒ to find a better fit. Or a select few play above their current team and want a chance to compete in a conference with more top level talent. We all understand these guys want to play. Itís a question of risk versus reality and thatís a case-by-case analysis. The second head is the exterior influencers telling a kid heís not getting a fair shake at his current school for whatever reason. If you could eliminate this factor I think the portal would flatten out at a reasonable level. Iím pretty confident 99% of these people arenít saying, ď if you donít get picked up, Iíll pay your tuition to go to XYZ school/program.Ē

The NCAA has done a pretty good job putting out the recruiting process information for high school kids in all sports. They have to register. They know the grade requirements, etc. Parents have access to information if they need it. We know not everyone follows it, but itís out there. I would guess the NCAA will need to put out similar info and stats to help players understand the risks of entering the portal once the NCAA has some stats/ history. I just hope they also address the risks in material for these influencers. Everyone has an opinion and many freely expound it without any consequences. When a player no longer has a team to play ball AND no one is paying for his education, thatís life changing and not in a good way.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I wonder how long it will take for the ďgrass is greenerĒ syndrome and itís consequences to hit home and the portal entries decline. I think itís a two-headed monster. There is the player who thinks heís better than his current coach. He wants a chance to play because he believes he is a super star in the making if he can get minutes. Or he gets upside down with his coach - which happens. Or he finds out heís not ready for the level he thought he was and wants to move ďdownĒ to find a better fit. Or a select few play above their current team and want a chance to compete in a conference with more top level talent. We all understand these guys want to play. Itís a question of risk versus reality and thatís a case-by-case analysis. The second head is the exterior influencers telling a kid heís not getting a fair shake at his current school for whatever reason. If you could eliminate this factor I think the portal would flatten out at a reasonable level. Iím pretty confident 99% of these people arenít saying, ď if you donít get picked up, Iíll pay your tuition to go to XYZ school/program.Ē

The NCAA has done a pretty good job putting out the recruiting process information for high school kids in all sports. They have to register. They know the grade requirements, etc. Parents have access to information if they need it. We know not everyone follows it, but itís out there. I would guess the NCAA will need to put out similar info and stats to help players understand the risks of entering the portal once the NCAA has some stats/ history. I just hope they also address the risks in material for these influencers. Everyone has an opinion and many freely expound it without any consequences. When a player no longer has a team to play ball AND no one is paying for his education, thatís life changing and not in a good way.
There is minimal risk of entering the transfer portal. It doesn't make a kid "lose" their scholarship. Scholarships are for one year and renewable annually. Coaches are forcing some of these kids hands when it comes to entering the transfer portal which is likely the case for the majority of kids that do not find another home. Plenty of innocent kids out there.
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  #273  
Old 06-21-2021, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
There is minimal risk of entering the transfer portal. It doesn't make a kid "lose" their scholarship. Scholarships are for one year and renewable annually. Coaches are forcing some of these kids hands when it comes to entering the transfer portal which is likely the case for the majority of kids that do not find another home. Plenty of innocent kids out there.
Someone earlier stated that once a player enters the transfer portal, he is effectively "resigning" from the team. Is that true?

Scholarships are indeed renewed yearly, but in reality it's pretty hard for a coach or school to "pull" a scholarship from a player absent misconduct. This is especially true for a counter sport like basketball, particularly when all of the scholarships are fully funded.

That said, does anyone understand the transfer system enough to comment on what the real risk is for a player? Not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know how it all works.
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  #274  
Old 06-21-2021, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
Someone earlier stated that once a player enters the transfer portal, he is effectively "resigning" from the team. Is that true?

Scholarships are indeed renewed yearly, but in reality it's pretty hard for a coach or school to "pull" a scholarship from a player absent misconduct. This is especially true for a counter sport like basketball, particularly when all of the scholarships are fully funded.

That said, does anyone understand the transfer system enough to comment on what the real risk is for a player? Not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know how it all works.
No, the player is not resigning from the team imo, he can always withdraw from the transfer portal and rejoin the team, that has happened, although I imagine that is awkward.

The coach can also give that player's scholarship to someone else as soon as that player enters the portal, so even if the player changed his mind and wanted to come back, there may no longer be a scholarship for him to come back to if the coach already gave his scholarship to someone else.
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  #275  
Old 06-21-2021, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The coach can also give that player's scholarship to someone else as soon as that player enters the portal, so even if the player changed his mind and wanted to come back, there may no longer be a scholarship for him.
So there's the risk. If I understand you correctly, by entering the portal, a player is essentially releasing his scholarship.

I think that's a pretty big risk. But then, I have no illusions about going to the League.
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Old 06-21-2021, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
So there's the risk. If I understand you correctly, by entering the portal, a player is essentially releasing his scholarship.

I think that's a pretty big risk. But then, I have no illusions about going to the League.
Yes, they are effectively releasing their scholarship by entering the portal, it is definitely a risk imo, this is a two way street in that the school can move on without them.

https://informedathlete.com/transfer...-consequences/:

Once an athlete submits their name for the NCAA Transfer Portal, itís possible that they will be removed from their team and will lose their scholarship at the end of the semester. They could lose that opportunity and not find a new one.

Also for Division I athletes, remember that once you tell your school you want to be entered in the Transfer Portal, they have the right to cancel your scholarship at the end of the semester or quarter, even if you were planning to finish out the current school year. If you are at a Division I program that hasnít started classes yet for this year (mostly west coast universities), telling them now that you want to be entered in the Transfer Portal before classes begin could mean that you wonít have your scholarship for this upcoming semester or quarter.
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Old 06-21-2021, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Tre Mitchell from Massachusetts signed with Texas on 06/19
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Good for us, bad for the league, good for the player.
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Old 06-21-2021, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
Someone earlier stated that once a player enters the transfer portal, he is effectively "resigning" from the team. Is that true?

Scholarships are indeed renewed yearly, but in reality it's pretty hard for a coach or school to "pull" a scholarship from a player absent misconduct. This is especially true for a counter sport like basketball, particularly when all of the scholarships are fully funded.
That's effectively what is happening, but entering the transfer portal doesn't automatically release a kid from their scholarship. If they choose to withdrawal from the portal it's the same renewal process as if they never entered. It's splitting hairs to be honest.

Scholarships are given out at the discretion of the coach/athletic department, so it's really not an issue to not renew one. There's also plenty of other ways to "open-up" a scholarship spot if they want to. And for the most part, kids don't want to stick around where they aren't wanted.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Scholarships are given out at the discretion of the coach/athletic department, so it's really not an issue to not renew one. There's also plenty of other ways to "open-up" a scholarship spot if they want to. And for the most part, kids don't want to stick around where they aren't wanted.
In my experience, admittedly limited, that's not the case. Unless there is player misconduct, or unless the athlete isn't living up to the conditions of the scholarship (missing practices, violating team rules, etc.) you really can't just take a player off scholarship because you want to or want to give it to someone else. The athlete can appeal to the NCAA and unless the school can show cause, the NCAA will side with the athlete. This is particularly hard to do for counter sports like basketball or women's volleyball, particularly when the scholarships are fully funded.

I realize that the relationship between athlete and school/coach/team would probably be forever poisoned. I also realize there are lots of ways (like perpetually riding the pine) to encourage an athlete to leave. It's not usually worth the pain for a school to try to get rid of an athlete just because.
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Old 06-21-2021, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
In my experience, admittedly limited, unless there is player misconduct, or unless the athlete isn't living up to the conditions of the scholarship (missing practices, violating team rules, etc.) you really can't just take a player off scholarship because you want to or want to give it to someone else. The athlete can appeal to the NCAA and unless the school can show cause, the NCAA will side with the athlete. This is particularly hard to do for counter sports like basketball or women's volleyball, particularly when the scholarships are fully funded.

I realize that the relationship between athlete and school/coach/team would probably be forever poisoned. I also realize there are lots of ways (like perpetually riding the pine) to encourage an athlete to leave. It's not usually worth the pain for a school to try to get rid of an athlete just because.
From the NCAA site.

"If a school plans to reduce or not renew a student-athlete’s aid, the school must notify the student-athlete in writing by July 1 and provide an opportunity to appeal. In most cases, coaches decide who receives a scholarship, the scholarship amount and whether it will be renewed."

https://www.ncaa.org/student-athlete...e/scholarships

Last edited by bcross; 06-21-2021 at 10:25 PM..
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  #281  
Old 06-21-2021, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
From the NCAA site.

"If a school plans to reduce or not renew a student-athleteís aid, the school must notify the student-athlete in writing by July 1 and provide an opportunity to appeal. In most cases, coaches decide who receives a scholarship, the scholarship amount and whether it will be renewed."

https://www.ncaa.org/student-athlete...e/scholarships
From the NCAA Division I manual Section 15.3.4, specifically 15.3.4.1 and 15.3.4.3:

15.3.5.1 Reduction, Cancellation or Nonrenewal Permitted. [A] Institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability may be reduced or canceled during the period of the award or reduced or not renewed for the following academic year or years of the student-athlete's five-year period of eligibility if the recipient: (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/11/94, 1/10/95, 1/9/96, 12/13/05, 9/11/07, 8/7/14, 1/17/15 effective 8/1/15, 6/19/18 effective 10/15/18)
(a) Renders himself or herself ineligible for intercollegiate competition;
(b) Fraudulently misrepresents any information on an application, letter of intent or financial aid agreement (see Bylaw
15.3.5.1.2);
(c) Engages in serious misconduct warranting substantial disciplinary penalty, as determined by the institution's regular
student disciplinary authority;
(d) Voluntarily (on his or her own initiative) withdraws from a sport at any time for personal reasons; however, the recipient's financial aid may not be awarded to another student-athlete in the academic term in which the aid is reduced or canceled;
(e) Violates a nonathletically related condition outlined in the financial aid agreement or violates a documented institutional rule or policy (e.g., academics policies or standards, athletics department or team rules or policies); or
(f) Provides written notification of transfer (see Bylaw 13.1.1.3) to the institution; however, the student-athleteís financial aid may not be reduced or canceled until the end of the regular academic term in which written notification of transfer is received. If a student-athlete provides written notification of transfer to the institution between regular academic terms (winter break, summer break) the institution may reduce or cancel the financial aid immediately.

15.3.5.3 Reduction or Nonrenewal Not Permitted -- After the Period of the Award. [A] If a student-athlete receives athletically related financial aid in the academic year of his or her initial full-time enrollment at the certifying institution, the following factors shall not be considered in the reduction or nonrenewal of such aid for the following academic year or years of the student-athlete's five-year period of eligibility: (Adopted: 1/17/15 effective 8/1/15)
(a) A student-athlete's athletics ability, performance or contribution to a team's success (e.g., financial aid contingent upon specified performance or playing a specific position);
(b) An injury, illness, or physical or mental medical condition; or
(c) Any other athletics reason.


http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/D121.pdf:

This to me says that you can't just drop an athlete without cause.
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  #282  
Old 06-22-2021, 10:24 AM
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Section 15.3.5 is for the power five conferences, which does have different rules. You'll notice in Section 15.3.4, which applies to the non-power five conferences, there is nothing prohibiting the non-renewal of scholarships for athletic reasons after the period of the award, which is one year in this case. I'm going to make a guess that most of the kids that do not find another home fall into this category.

Even with Section 15.3.5, nothing is stopping a coach from cutting a player from the team and forcing a kids hand. Stay at the school under scholarship but just be a student, or seek a transfer to place they can still do both.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports....art-of-sports/

Like I mentioned earlier, plenty of ways for a coach to "open-up" a scholarship spot if they want to.
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  #283  
Old 06-22-2021, 10:49 PM
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Players have scholarships revoked all the time because the university has a better player waiting. Look at what Cal did when was hired at Kentucky. Players won't talk about it because it shows they have reduced value to a program.

I guarantee that BG, AM and AG sat down with players and told them that they won't get much playing time next year and if they wanted PT to look elsewhere.
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Old 06-23-2021, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Players have scholarships revoked all the time because the university has a better player waiting. Look at what Cal did when was hired at Kentucky. Players won't talk about it because it shows they have reduced value to a program.

I guarantee that BG, AM and AG sat down with players and told them that they won't get much playing time next year and if they wanted PT to look elsewhere.

The two paragraphs seem the same but are very different. Ordinarily, in the second paragraph scenario, the coach says they will honor the scholarship if the player is determined to stay. In those circumstances, it is in the players best interest if they want to continue playing to "opt" to find a better fit.

I am sure the scenario in the 1st paragraph happens but think it is much less frequently.
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Old 06-23-2021, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
The two paragraphs seem the same but are very different. Ordinarily, in the second paragraph scenario, the coach says they will honor the scholarship if the player is determined to stay. In those circumstances, it is in the players best interest if they want to continue playing to "opt" to find a better fit.

I am sure the scenario in the 1st paragraph happens but think it is much less frequently.
And my guess is that the only reason the 1st paragraph scenario happens less frequently is because most people get the hint in the 2nd paragraph scenario and leave. If they were "determined to stay", suddenly the paragraph 1 scenario would start to happen.
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Old 06-23-2021, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Players have scholarships revoked all the time because the university has a better player waiting. Look at what Cal did when was hired at Kentucky. Players won't talk about it because it shows they have reduced value to a program.

I guarantee that BG, AM and AG sat down with players and told them that they won't get much playing time next year and if they wanted PT to look elsewhere.
Your paragraphs are totally different. There's a way that Cal and guys like Saban can literally force players off teams and there's diplomatic ways the others can just not play a guy.
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Old 06-23-2021, 04:30 PM
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this is becoming quite the back and forth
discussion...

I always thought basketeball scholarships
were given annually... a player could decide
to transfer, go into the NBA draft... a coach
could have a one on one talk with a player,
explain next year's situation (playing time,etc)
and perhaps even help him find a college to
transfer to, does that happen...

a player's coach might make a couple calls
to other coaches about one of his players
and try and help find a good situation for
him...
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:57 AM
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At this point, on Instagram, I am seeing players withdrawal their entry in the NBA draft. Is there any rumor that a Dayton player might return to the Dayton basketball program as a player? I am just being hopeful that Crutcher might change his mind. I donít see any articles predicting that Crutcher would actually get drafted on draft day. I am seeing predictions that fewer US players will be signed overseas due to reduced revenues from ticket sales.
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Old 06-27-2021, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
At this point, on Instagram, I am seeing players withdrawal their entry in the NBA draft. Is there any rumor that a Dayton player might return to the Dayton basketball program as a player? I am just being hopeful that Crutcher might change his mind. I donít see any articles predicting that Crutcher would actually get drafted on draft day. I am seeing predictions that fewer US players will be signed overseas due to reduced revenues from ticket sales.
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Unless rules regarding a player singing with an agent are concerned, I donít think thereís any chance Crutcher can come back. IIRC, in his departure announcement, he mentioned signing with an agent, which would preclude him from playing D-I hoops again.
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  #290  
Old 06-27-2021, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Your paragraphs are totally different. There's a way that Cal and guys like Saban can literally force players off teams and there's diplomatic ways the others can just not play a guy.
I am fairly that both methods, "You are gone" and the more diplomatic ways "You might now get playing time" are used by almost all coaches.

I know of players that UD told to leave, but the school always presents a diplomatic face so you don't hear about players who are shown the door.
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Old 06-27-2021, 01:07 PM
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we gave been through this before....

unless someone knows something most
of us are not in on, no seniors are coming
back....
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Old 06-27-2021, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Unless rules regarding a player singing with an agent are concerned, I donít think thereís any chance Crutcher can come back. IIRC, in his departure announcement, he mentioned signing with an agent, which would preclude him from playing D-I hoops again.
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Rules changed a couple years back allowing players to sign NCAA certified agents and still return to school. Also allows players that go undrafted to return to school if they choose.
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Old 06-29-2021, 07:24 AM
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I see that once Dayton recruit who took a picture in UD arena with the Dayton head coach is now transferring from Maryland to Marquette. That is Darryl Morsell.
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Old 07-03-2021, 09:42 AM
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Kevin Obanor, 6í8Ē from Oral Robertís enters the transfer portal. This entry seems a little late but he must already have a suitor lined up. This guys performance in the NCAA shot his stock skyward.
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Old 07-10-2021, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Rules changed a couple years back allowing players to sign NCAA certified agents and still return to school. Also allows players that go undrafted to return to school if they choose.
Thanks for the clarification, bcross.
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  #296  
Old 07-12-2021, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Kevin Obanor, 6í8Ē from Oral Robertís enters the transfer portal. This entry seems a little late but he must already have a suitor lined up. This guys performance in the NCAA shot his stock skyward.
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Weird one now that we know Abmas is also returning.
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Old 07-13-2021, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Weird one now that we know Abmas is also returning.
I bet this has more to do with the school than the team. ORU is crazy conservative and some of their majors are barely accredited. If I was a student-athlete there and I had a chance to jump ship to a relatively normal school that didn't police my daily life like ORU I definitely would.
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  #298  
Old 07-13-2021, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan47 View Post
I bet this has more to do with the school than the team. ORU is crazy conservative and some of their majors are barely accredited. If I was a student-athlete there and I had a chance to jump ship to a relatively normal school that didn't police my daily life like ORU I definitely would.
Interesting. Come to think of it I think I read that Abmas is returning, but also may be entering the portal.

These two would start on almost any team in the country I imagine.
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:11 AM
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Looks as if Luke Frazier has landed at Ohio University. Hope he has a nice career there.
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:21 AM
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MN guard Marcus Carr, considered the #1 transfer is off to Texas. Chris Beard is loaded.

"Carr joins a transfer class that includes Timmy Allen (17.2 PPG at Utah), Tre Mitchell (18.8 PPG at UMass), Christian Bishop (11.0 PPG at Creighton), Dylan Disu (15.0 PPG at Vanderbilt) and former five-star recruit Devin Askew (6.5 PPG at Kentucky). Avery Benson, who played under Beard at Texas Tech, followed him to Austin."
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