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02-26-2013, 09:25 AM
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From St Louis media. It doesn't say anything new, but it confirms the 12 team scenario with two six team divisions.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...f7d7f89a4.html
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02-26-2013, 09:35 AM
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I'd say there was something huge there, he left providence out.
either that guy just broke the biggest story of the C7 since their original departure annoucement, or he's just copying Feinstein's story and not paying close attention. I'll go with the later.
thanks for the link, gotta figure something breaks officially by the final 4.
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02-26-2013, 09:48 AM
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The Chicago Tribune. Again, nothing new but this is from the perspective of DePaul's AD. If posted already, regrets.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,1818874.story
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02-27-2013, 04:07 PM
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FWIW from Jersey Guy:
With the Big East TV deal done, the C-7 and Big East are now working on a departure date for the C-7. Could be this summer, but most likely 2014.
As to likely members:
"The Catholic 7 plan will be to announce a departure date and then immediately add at least three teams to the conference–with Xavier, Butler and either Richmond, Dayton, Saint Louis or Creighton as the 10th team, with the eventual possibility that five of the six eventually being part of the group."
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5326
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02-27-2013, 05:06 PM
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How tight are we to X?
Could be crucial for us for the followi reason.
My feeling is that Xavier and Butler are "must haves" for the C7. All other schools mentioned would fit....but none are necessary to a C7+ that wants BB at the forefront and second to none.
If that is correct, if, when invited formally, X were to say, "OK, but we feel very strongly about UD....we want Dayton in"....seems to me that would carry considerable weight.
Now X knows it's "in". Why would they take such a position? Well, here's where "it's who you know" that counts. I have heard from the most reliable of sources that Dan Curran has a close relationship with the X president. Dan could simply play that card.
For X it doesn't matter. They are "in". So, if the UD-X relationship at the highest level really is as strong as I've heard....why wouldn't X oblige? What (sensible) reason would X have to not lobby hard for UD? It would cost them nothing.
And, if they did, to say that we'd owe them one would be an understatement.
This line of reasoning is based entirely on the premise that the C7+ plan requires X.....that X is a "must have" for the C7.
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02-27-2013, 05:14 PM
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I would rather believe UD does not need "X" to get in.
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02-27-2013, 05:18 PM
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Growth in stages....
Originally Posted by dcflyer
FWIW from Jersey Guy:
With the Big East TV deal done, the C-7 and Big East are now working on a departure date for the C-7. Could be this summer, but most likely 2014.
As to likely members:
"The Catholic 7 plan will be to announce a departure date and then immediately add at least three teams to the conference–with Xavier, Butler and either Richmond, Dayton, Saint Louis or Creighton as the 10th team, with the eventual possibility that five of the six eventually being part of the group."
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5326
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What sensible reason would the C7 have for first growing to ten teams, with the intention of growing to 12 later? This entire enterprise is a big deal for the C7 administrations.....no doubt they will be mighty glad when it's over....so get it over....decide on the size needed/wanted, and do it. Coming back for more later makes no sense to me.
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02-27-2013, 06:28 PM
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It seems that "jersey guy" is backing off just a wee bit from his blog of 2/21 where he "authoritatively" reported the 10th slot was between Creighten (promoted by Marquette) and Richmond (backed by G'town.) His earlier "report" was the cause of some angst here because of his supposed "in" with knowledgeable people; now he says it's a toss up among UD, SLU, Creighten and Richmond.
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02-27-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
So, if the UD-X relationship at the highest level really is as strong as I've heard....why wouldn't X oblige? What (sensible) reason would X have to not lobby hard for UD? It would cost them nothing.
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If Xavier were in the BE-7 and we were not it would give X a huge recruiting advantage over us.
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02-27-2013, 09:48 PM
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From the Chicago Tribune. Significant in that it says things are moving along quickly with the football/basketball divorce and there is still a possibility the new league could get underway this year........just a possibility, though. Also, the article says the league is going to 12 -- REPEAT -- 12 schools. Take that Jersey Mike, or whatever you call yourself.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,2929687.story
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02-27-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber
From the Chicago Tribune. Significant in that it says things are moving along quickly with the football/basketball divorce and there is still a possibility the new league could get underway this year........just a possibility, though. Also, the article says the league is going to 12 -- REPEAT -- 12 schools. Take that Jersey Mike, or whatever you call yourself.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,2929687.story
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Multiple people have now said 12 team league. Jersey guy is the only guy who is still saying possibly 10. Based on that, I think we can assume it will be a 12 team league.
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02-27-2013, 10:23 PM
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Yes, but,...
Originally Posted by Flyer69ers
I would rather believe UD does not need "X" to get in.
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Me too,.....but we may very well need help. And if we do, I'll take it from any source.
Originally Posted by longtimefan
If Xavier were in the BE-7 and we were not it would give X a huge recruiting advantage over us.
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I believe that X's recruiting advantage over UD is already so large that membership in the BE-7 would have little, if any, additional effect.
You may not agree, longtimer, but UD is not in X's "league"....which is why no one for a second questions whether or not the C7 will go after X. To create the superior BB conference the C7 wants they "need" X.....they do not need Dayton.
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02-27-2013, 10:29 PM
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have heard it multiple times that UD and X do not recruit the same players. Maybe one now and then but generally don't. UD don't go after prop 48 players or academically and character challenged recruits. But they do get what they want most of the time, and are quite luck to have an open ship available when the Crawfords and company come available.
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02-27-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Multiple people have now said 12 team league. Jersey guy is the only guy who is still saying possibly 10. Based on that, I think we can assume it will be a 12 team league.
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I think Jersey Mike should stick to something he's good at, like making Hoagies. When he starts spinning stories to boost readership on his blog, it is really sort of pathetic.
The Trib article I posted was written after talking with two C7 AD's. How in the world could they both be wrong about the league wanting twelve teams?
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02-28-2013, 08:47 AM
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bobber, a 12-team league makes sense, especially if the reporting is accurate (and granted, that is a BIG IF) that it would mean an extra $300K per school ($30 MM for "10" versus $40 MM for "12".) In addition, a 12-team Conference would allow more geographic balance with four Midwest additions and one from Virginia. While anything is possible, what would the rationale be for going to "10" initially if "12" is where you want to end up anyway? Maybe "jersey guy" gets his info from a "friend of a friend who knows somebody whose father sits next to a guy who..."
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02-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
If Xavier were in the BE-7 and we were not it would give X a huge recruiting advantage over us.
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They already have a huge recruiting advantage over us - winning in March, every year.
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02-28-2013, 02:56 PM
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Not a lot of news here, but it does appear that some things are getting close to being settled within the BE and that ND had considered staying with the C7 for everything but FB, but opted for the ACC instead.
http://www.courant.com/sports/colleg...,5702608.story
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02-28-2013, 04:41 PM
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Of course X has a recruiting advantage over us due to their postseason success, but we have been narrowing that gap. The turnover in coaches slowed our momentum somewhat, but once Archie gets rolling I think he will narrow the gap even more. However, if X is in the BE-7 and we are not it will be much more difficult to do so. It will give them even more of an advantage regardless of postseason success. If I were a recruit I would rather go to an NCAA team in the BE-7 than an NCAA team in a watered down A-10 - more exposure, more TV, more national recognition, more ESPN coverage.
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02-28-2013, 05:01 PM
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Did being in the Horrizon league....
Originally Posted by longtimefan
Of course X has a recruiting advantage over us due to their postseason success, but we have been narrowing that gap. The turnover in coaches slowed our momentum somewhat, but once Archie gets rolling I think he will narrow the gap even more. However, if X is in the BE-7 and we are not it will be much more difficult to do so. It will give them even more of an advantage regardless of postseason success. If I were a recruit I would rather go to an NCAA team in the BE-7 than an NCAA team in a watered down A-10 - more exposure, more TV, more national recognition, more ESPN coverage.
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.....hold Butler back? Was their recruiting affected? How about their post season prospects?.....their performance in the NCAAs?
In my opinion, the Butler experience proves that if you know what you're doing you'll be just fine no matter what....and if you don't, you won't.
I hope that UD winds up with the C7...and I'll be diappointed if we do not. Being in a severely depleated A10 will seem like a dismal fate, indeed.
However, removing the emotion,...there is as much reason to believe that Dayton in a weakened A10 will fare well, as there is to think that being a member of a new C7-based conference will result in a big improvement in our fortunes.
As I said, I hope we are included in the C7 league. But, having seen Georgetown play last night, there is no doubt in my mind that to compete in the C7 league UD will have to change just about everything in its business model for BB, or we'll be the " Fordham" of that league.
And, I'm see nothing that persuades me that the UD athletics administration will know how to go about making the necessary changes.
I hope I'm wrong...but, honestly, that's how I see it.
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02-28-2013, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
However, removing the emotion,...there is as much reason to believe that Dayton in a weakened A10 will fare well, as there is to think that being a member of a new C7-based conference will result in a big improvement in our fortunes.
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I agree.
Ideally, I'd like to wait several years to make the move to the c7 conference, so, in that sense, I am agreeing with rollo and others. On the other hand, an invitation right now to the c7 conference may be a one time offer, and I don't feel that UD can afford to turn down the offer.
I am of the opinion that UD can narrow the gap with X.
If I honestly thought that UD was not capable of competing in the c7 league, then I would be totally against moving to the c7 conference. Again, I see no reason why UD can't be similar to Butler, X, Gonzaga, etc.
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02-28-2013, 05:53 PM
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http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365
Big East Prez will meet in Atlanta
The Big East Presidents and Athletic Directors will meet in Atlanta on Friday to discuss the timing and the details of the break up with the Catholic 7 group of schools who announced their departure from the conference in December.
Last edited by Whacker; 02-28-2013 at 08:17 PM..
Reason: Please refrain from cutting and pasting entire articles
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02-28-2013, 05:58 PM
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If it's a 10 team league, and if they split into 2 divisions, I guess it would be:
east
georgetown
villanova
seton hall
providence
st. john's
west
depaul
marquette
butler
xavier
dayton or st. louis or creighton
If they don't split into divisions, then I guess Richmond becomes a viable 10th team.
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02-28-2013, 05:58 PM
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Looks like the Jersey Guy is at it again;
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365#more-5365
And from Providence: (nothing more than the above)
http://news.providencejournal.com/sp...n-chicago.html
My brother, a Seton Hall grad, emailed these stories to with the comment "I hear UD is lobbying hard to be included." I have no idea where he is hearing it from.
I see ud2 has already posted this above. I guess we were on the computer at the same time. Delete this if necessary.
Last edited by Bill McPeek; 02-28-2013 at 06:02 PM..
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02-28-2013, 05:59 PM
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02-28-2013, 06:12 PM
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As noted before (many times), IMO UD will be just fine no matter where we land. Perhaps the C7+ new league will be just as good as the Old Original BE, but there is no assurance of that going forward either. As far as our ability to compete, we should be able to hold our own...would we fit in institutionally with the newly formulated league....sure, would the extra dough from the BE contract (as reported) be beneficial to UD...sure...and that's why I am now all for joining their ranks. However, to assume we'd wither on the vine staying in the A-10 is a tad too maudlin IMHO. As UAC (and others) have pointed out, Butler didn't wither on the vine playing in the Horizon and Gonzaga hasn't been held back by playing in the WAC and even a depleted A-10 will be at least on a par with those two leagues.
As far as "X" is concerned, while I am more than ready to end our drought against them down at their place and I am envious of their past success, especially relative to our record over the past 25 years, I am not obsessed with them or what they're doing. IMO, we aren't that far away from being a nationally prominent program (and that should be our benchmark)...we need more depth at key positions, but given what AM has been able to accomplish thus far recruiting wise, another class or two should get us there.
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02-28-2013, 06:14 PM
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Catholic 7 to keep Big East name
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02-28-2013, 06:18 PM
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Katz saying next year will be 9 w C7+ butler and Xavier only. Then 12 w creighton, slu, and ud year after.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ording-sources
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02-28-2013, 06:19 PM
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so to set it straight from the numerous links posted in past few mins:
looking like an initial 9-10 team league next year
with more teams added in 2014
butler, x, dayton, slu, creighton all mentioned as being apart of the league to make a 12 team league eventually
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02-28-2013, 06:19 PM
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Last edited by ud2; 02-28-2013 at 06:24 PM..
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02-28-2013, 06:27 PM
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I will try to temper my exuberance until this is official, but adding Creighton, Dayton, and SLU is going to result in an unbalanced 12 team league with 7 in the west and 5 in the east. I guess if they don't split into 2 divisions, then this will not be a problem.
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02-28-2013, 06:28 PM
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tweet from dan wetzel:
@DanWetzel
Catholic 7 version of Big East starts in 13-14. Will add Butler, Xavier, Dayton and St. Louis. And if up to me, Siena over Creighton.
seems to be conflicting reports....but sounds like we're in the mix, one way or another.
EDIT: another tweet
@DanWetzel
C7 immediate goal is to get to nine next year (Butler, Xavier). Likely 12 by 14-15 but it could go faster, slower or even stop at nine
Last edited by FlyerFanatic08; 02-28-2013 at 06:37 PM..
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02-28-2013, 06:54 PM
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JUST saw it for myself on ESPN (TV): Dayton is IN!!!! C7 keep the Big East name and will immediately add Butler and Xavier for the beginning of the new league starting July 1, 2013. In 2014, league adds Creighton, SLU and DAYTON!!
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02-28-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DaytonDecibelDungeon
No link but just saw it for myself on ESPN: Dayton is IN!!!! C7 keep the Big East name and will immediately add Butler and Xavier for the beginning of the new league starting July 1, 2013. In 2014, league adds Creighton, SLU and DAYTON!!
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link is above...
again i still want to hear them announce we're in. if they don't i'm still on pins and needles for maybe another year.
who's to say they don't just stop at 9? scary to think about
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02-28-2013, 07:04 PM
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I have to think FoxSports would not be happy with only a nine team league. That is only four games each Wednesday/Saturday to choose from. A twelve team league would give them six games each day and many more games over the course of a season.
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02-28-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I have to think FoxSports would not be happy with only a nine team league. That is only four games each Wednesday/Saturday to choose from. A twelve team league would give them six games each day and many more games over the course of a season.
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you would think...i hope thats the case.
i'd feel a lot more comfortable if they announce their intentions to add in 2014 when they announce butler/x
if not... on pins and needles for another year
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02-28-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
you would think...i hope thats the case.
i'd feel a lot more comfortable if they announce their intentions to add in 2014 when they announce butler/x
if not... on pins and needles for another year
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If I have to wait this out for another year I think I'll just go back and read all of rollo's posts stating how badly we will suck if we get into the BE-7. That way maybe I can convince myself I don't want to get in and I won't be so nervous.
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02-28-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I have to think FoxSports would not be happy with only a nine team league. That is only four games each Wednesday/Saturday to choose from. A twelve team league would give them six games each day and many more games over the course of a season.
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From what I read, Notre Dame was wanting to stay in the Big East until 2014... so they could be the magical "10th" team (since they are all sports but football) until 2014 when UD, SLU and Creighton join.
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02-28-2013, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
If I have to wait this out for another year I think I'll just go back and read all of rollo's posts stating how badly we will suck if we get into the BE-7. That way maybe I can convince myself I don't want to get in and I won't be so nervous.
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right?
even if they don't announce which teams...but that they're planning on bringing in more...i'll feel good.
but i dont think it makes sense to do that. might as well announce your intention of adding just like the BE did with temple and CUSA did with charlotte. even if its not right away
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02-28-2013, 07:19 PM
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that ESPN article must have been updated...
"While Butler, Xavier and, most likely, Creighton are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 12-team league."
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02-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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A lot can happen in a year. Thats a long wait. Contracts are made to be broken and handshakes are made to be forgotten. Wouldnt count any chickens until UD is actually painting a new league logo on the UD Arena floor. Until then paperwork only gets you so far.
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02-28-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
that ESPN article must have been updated...
"While Butler, Xavier and, most likely, Creighton are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 12-team league."
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The first time I read it it said it would be a 13-team league with Xavier, Butler, an unknown, and then Creighton, St Louis, and Dayton. Now it has deleted the unknown and says 12 teams???
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02-28-2013, 07:29 PM
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I think the "unknown" is accounting for the possibility that Notre Dame joins for one season, making a 10-team league, then departs. Three schools bring it up to 12 the following year.
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02-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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So it looks like 11 of the 12 schools will be Catholic, and all 12 will be private.
But but but...I thought those factors were irrelevant?!?
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02-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I will try to temper my exuberance until this is official, but adding Creighton, Dayton, and SLU is going to result in an unbalanced 12 team league with 7 in the west and 5 in the east. I guess if they don't split into 2 divisions, then this will not be a problem.
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I have heard that Marquette wants to keep home-and-homes with at least Georgetown and Villanova (can't remember where I heard that), so if they wanted to have divisions they might put Marquette in the East if Marquette wouldn't mind the travel. That would negate the necessity for an Eastern team ( Richmond), or as you say they might not have divisions.
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02-28-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I will try to temper my exuberance until this is official, but adding Creighton, Dayton, and SLU is going to result in an unbalanced 12 team league with 7 in the west and 5 in the east. I guess if they don't split into 2 divisions, then this will not be a problem.
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Basketball leagues seldom split into divisions any more.
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03-01-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg
I think the "unknown" is accounting for the possibility that Notre Dame joins for one season, making a 10-team league, then departs. Three schools bring it up to 12 the following year.
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exactly, but this is just 1 of the unknowns and you can be certain this trial baloon is offered in part to gauge ND's reaction. ND is currently in a limbo with a giant roadblock being B1G and their almost certain unfinished business. I've said all along....I hear Georgetown and Nova say they're finished with cozying up with footballers...I just don't believe them and anyone that does is setting themselves up to be ambushed. And that better be your mindset until they have no other options...that day doesn't come until B1G dust settles and ND lands somewhere and begins playing there.
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03-01-2013, 08:33 AM
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Something to think about; if, as reported elsewhere, the exit fee for leaving the A-10 within one year is $2 MM while the exit fee with a two year notice is $1 MM, any decision on whom to add from the A-10 for the 2014-15 season would need to be made soon. If the exit fee in the A-10 is the issue in not going immediately to a 12 team league, the decision has to be made now, otherwise it doesn't make sense to wait.
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03-01-2013, 08:41 AM
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$1,000,000 is pocket change compared to the long term financial ramifications of this deal.
In= $3,000,000 + per year.
Out= lucky to keep the $300,000 a year we currently are reported to get from TV deal, declining attendance over the long haul due to less high profile teams at arena, etc....
Does anyone really believe that Wabler and Curran are sitting around doing nothing? Their hands are tied, they can not speak until told to speak.
I still have faith
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03-01-2013, 08:45 AM
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I don't know why anyone would want Richmond over VCU
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03-01-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by oRed
exactly, but this is just 1 of the unknowns and you can be certain this trial baloon is offered in part to gauge ND's reaction. ND is currently in a limbo with a giant roadblock being B1G and their almost certain unfinished business. I've said all along....I hear Georgetown and Nova say they're finished with cozying up with footballers...I just don't believe them and anyone that does is setting themselves up to be ambushed. And that better be your mindset until they have no other options...that day doesn't come until B1G dust settles and ND lands somewhere and begins playing there.
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They may be finished cozying up with all the footballers - except Notre Dame. Everybody wants to cozy up with Notre Dame.
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03-01-2013, 09:19 AM
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Because VCU has been flirting with the idea of FBS football.
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03-01-2013, 09:28 AM
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saw where ND will be in one of the BEs next year before moving to the ACC in 2014-15.
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03-01-2013, 09:31 AM
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Because Richmond is a private school and VCU is public.
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03-01-2013, 09:36 AM
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There is little chance that Notre Dame joins this conference. Notre Dame prides itself in its vast array of olympic sports, sports they are generally top notch at. Their Olympic sports program is more typical with a large state school than most private schools. Heck some of the c7 (Marquette for one) don't even offer baseball (something ND is pretty good at). The ACC is a much better fit for ND's olympic sports than the new big east ever will be.
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03-01-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Does anyone really believe that Wabler and Curran are sitting around doing nothing? Their hands are tied, they can not speak until told to speak.
I still have faith
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I still have faith, as well. But... I will have even more faith when we are playing our conference tourney at MSG and our unis say "Big East".
I'm just hoping we make it to Barclays this year. Will be fun to hop back and forth from MSG to Barclays.
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03-01-2013, 09:49 AM
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still nothing new here ... all conjecture ... just coming from bigger name sources. Would not be surprised to see it all play out differently.... Remember all these "sources" are in the business of selling themselves...... and they are good at it!
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03-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford
There is little chance that Notre Dame joins this conference. Notre Dame prides itself in its vast array of olympic sports, sports they are generally top notch at. Their Olympic sports program is more typical with a large state school than most private schools. Heck some of the c7 (Marquette for one) don't even offer baseball (something ND is pretty good at). The ACC is a much better fit for ND's olympic sports than the new big east ever will be.
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just play along Medford...I agree...today ND is a good fit with ACC since they'll let them do whatever they want...not arguing that point. But this is a forward looking exercise...I don't believe the ACC will look the same 1 year from today with 4-5 teams leaving. Clemson & Florida State for sure and probably some of this group UNC, VaTech, Virgina & Miami. Destination...B1G, Big12 or SEC.
So what does ND do then? Recreate the Big East which would now be the ACC in name? Play basketball with the C7? Join Big12?
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03-01-2013, 10:57 AM
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ND is scheduled to join the ACC in 2014-15.
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03-01-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode
I don't know why anyone would want Richmond over VCU
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It's already been explained multiple times throughout this thread. Richmond is a better fit than VCU in nearly every category.
VCU = Wright State with better lipstick and a Final Four run. Nothing against Wright State, but they probably wouldn't fit well in the Catholic/Big East, either.
Last edited by FlyerGuyer; 03-01-2013 at 01:51 PM..
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03-01-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Because VCU has been flirting with the idea of FBS football.
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Large, public institutions tend to do that...
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03-20-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
The 5 are Dayton,X,Butler,VCU and St Louis joining the league
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Just curious, how did this work out for you?
It's ok, you weren't the only one who was adamant---and dead wrong.
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