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06-16-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
So you’d be ok with ud leaving for the horizon and getting a 15/16 seed every year?
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That’s exactly how I took his post - NOT!! Our schedule and our conference has been good enough to get us comfortably in probably every year for the past 15 if we had produced. Just one common thread when it didn’t happen.
PS - I think you are some of the hubris he may have been referring to
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Last edited by Marysville Flyer; 06-16-2019 at 08:12 PM..
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06-16-2019, 08:24 PM
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The schedule has been put together in the past giving UD the chance for signature wins. Some years they get them, some years they do not. In '06-'07, Dayton played at Pitt and at UNC in back to back games, lost both by 30. The next year they got Pitt at home and won by 25. Last year they had Butler, Virginia, Oklahoma, Auburn, and Miss. St., but they are supposed to play more?!?!?
Yeah, I wish UD could have a great home schedule but then there is reality. Also. I'm sure UD would get more for a buy game than Presbyterian, and that may play into the big boys not wanting to play either, but that won't help the home schedule. I'm grateful for the work Neil does and I'm hopeful some of Grant's connections might get a good home game now and then.
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06-16-2019, 09:02 PM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
So you’d be ok with ud leaving for the horizon and getting a 15/16 seed every year?
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That’s not what TXFlyerFan said.
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06-16-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62
It's only a small handfull of posters. And given their history,it will continue. Same song different day does get a bit old though.
Thankfully most posters realize the real world situation and understand that we have a capable staff. Past OOC schedules have been effective in the RPI era, no reason to doubt that will remain the case as the landscape of Dance qualification changes.
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Are we going to be able to put together an OOC schedule as we did in the past? I haven't had problems with past schedules, but am a little concerned about going forward. I just don't see it as a same song different day.
For instance, for the 2016-2017 season there were complaints when we scheduled a D2 team after not being able to land a 4th H/H series to go along with an ESPN tourney and neutral game in Chicago. For this coming season we the ESPN tourney and a neutral game in Chicago, but as of today do not have any H/H series agreements. Not being able to a H/H series last offseason put us in a bit of a hole to for this coming season.
I'll take the blueprint from the past, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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06-17-2019, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I have acknowledged p5 reluctance countless times, so play the next best willing opponent. There are plenty of good, willing non-p5 opponents.
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Originally Posted by ud2
Chris posted in Pride + that a certain Mountain West team, that I will not name, complained of having the same problem that we have, so I think the obvious question then is why don't we just establish a permanent or nearly-permanent home and home series with this team?
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Originally Posted by ud2
And I have literally never once advocated for playing at Duke or at a similar blue blood opponent. I am advocating for home and homes with teams that we have a reasonable chance of defeating.
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Originally Posted by ud2
We likely can not get premier opponents, but the next best option, beating 2 of them, one at home and one away, would IMO certainly, at a minimum, likely move us up at least 2 seed lines. It would depend on how good the opponents were. We will never get there though if we do not try.
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UD2,
You say many things that we are all aware of in how to boost SOS numbers...
You can't keep arguing what needs to happen without the realistic means to make it happen. From all accounts...the teams that UD needs to schedule and would like to schedule want nothing. Teams that we want and have made financial offers to don't want the game. Teams that you say we need to schedule H-H with and are teams that we would "reasonably" beat don't want to come here. Please show me "plenty of good and willing non-P5 opponents" that want to schedule a H/H. There have been plenty of posts on the boards that indicate who UD has approached and their answer on whether or not they will play. Solid mids don't want to come here and take an L and they don't want the 50/50 risk of taking one on their own court to a UD squad whose A10 SOS doesn't help them. IF UD was a lock to bust the entire A10 up each year, then those tides may change.
We all know there is a scheduling problem. However that problem is the NCAA landscape, not the ability of UD staff to build a schedule to your liking with a team that has underperformed on the regular.
No one knows for certain, sans Chris and the big money folks, on what UD is actually trying to do. To throw out absolutes isn't fair to the argument and to make statements that say "likely, certainly, at a minimum, and back to likely" are in now way measurable or attainable. It is like saying something works half of the time fifty percent of the time.
Everyone on the board would like some big name schedule. Our schedules have done nothing to keep us out of anything. The past decade of UD basketball is a favorable and lucky E8 run away from being on no ones national radar. The program has done just enough to bring new fans on board and increase the yearly expectations of veteran fans, while clouding the reasonableness of some of them. Yes, I have high expectations of UD basketball and want them to do better. I am sick of going to A10 tournaments each year only to get sent packing. Until we dominate these so called "inferior" A10 programs, we are nothing more than where we should be...in the A10 hoping for the best.
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06-17-2019, 07:55 AM
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Great post, there is no doubt UD will work hard to put the program in a better position and conference. I believe they are doing all they can to accomplish that. The number one thing during this time is to win and win Big. The model and I posted this years ago has always been Gonzaga. Clearly we want a better conference but to get that done dominate your conference , get a coach who will stay long time . We have that In Anthony, now can he coach us to high level, we will find out this year with a loaded team. But we complain about P5 won’t play us??? Gonzaga just got paid the highest compliment. North Carolina is going to Spokane to play them. Think about that, they are going across the country , risking a loss to them because they have become and sustained a National Presence in a really bad conference. Kanas State just signed to Play St Louis. So the next couple of years are very important to UD. TV contracts start to expire and realignment will take shape once again. Don’t buy the bull that we can’t get anyone to come to UD, with our 80mill renovation, fan base and financial backing we need to make a huge splash this year and the door is open in Maui. We would get immediate National attention beating the likes of MSU or Kansas.
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06-17-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye
Great post, there is no doubt UD will work hard to put the program in a better position and conference. I believe they are doing all they can to accomplish that. The number one thing during this time is to win and win Big. The model and I posted this years ago has always been Gonzaga. Clearly we want a better conference but to get that done dominate your conference , get a coach who will stay long time . We have that In Anthony, now can he coach us to high level, we will find out this year with a loaded team. But we complain about P5 won’t play us??? Gonzaga just got paid the highest compliment. North Carolina is going to Spokane to play them. Think about that, they are going across the country , risking a loss to them because they have become and sustained a National Presence in a really bad conference. Kanas State just signed to Play St Louis. So the next couple of years are very important to UD. TV contracts start to expire and realignment will take shape once again. Don’t buy the bull that we can’t get anyone to come to UD, with our 80mill renovation, fan base and financial backing we need to make a huge splash this year and the door is open in Maui. We would get immediate National attention beating the likes of MSU or Kansas.
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Flybye, this is spot on. We have checked (double checked) all the boxes except delivering a long term head coach who can consistently deliver conference championships and deep NCAA runs. It's the missing link. And, if we can't schedule quality non-con opponents, then we need to do some serious damage in the NCAA Tournament on a consistent basis. Winning cures everything.
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06-17-2019, 10:01 AM
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I'm excited about the possibilities of Maui Thanksgiving week ... but IMO we need to level set ourselves ... a successful Maui is ... win the first game (get into the winners bracket), then win, in total, 2 out of the 3 games.
The fun will be watching how we compete with the big name colleges ... how do we compete in the limelight, how do we compete as a team, how do the transfers play on the court, how does Obi compete against national talent, what type of defense will we use ...
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06-17-2019, 10:12 AM
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Major
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I mean this as a positive and a change in our culture. Let’s not level set.We have done that far too long as a program. Anthony’s mindset is too win Championships. The staff and team and the fans should go to Maui with the full intent on winning it. As you review the rosters we are the deepest And most experience team other than MSU in that Tourney. Sure 2 and 1 would be good. 3 and O makes a bold statement over big time programs.OBI may be the most talented player in the Tourney . This group will be really good, they can do it.
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06-17-2019, 11:26 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by flybye
Great post, there is no doubt UD will work hard to put the program in a better position and conference. I believe they are doing all they can to accomplish that. The number one thing during this time is to win and win Big. The model and I posted this years ago has always been Gonzaga. Clearly we want a better conference but to get that done dominate your conference , get a coach who will stay long time . We have that In Anthony, now can he coach us to high level, we will find out this year with a loaded team. But we complain about P5 won’t play us??? Gonzaga just got paid the highest compliment. North Carolina is going to Spokane to play them. Think about that, they are going across the country , risking a loss to them because they have become and sustained a National Presence in a really bad conference. Kanas State just signed to Play St Louis. So the next couple of years are very important to UD. TV contracts start to expire and realignment will take shape once again. Don’t buy the bull that we can’t get anyone to come to UD, with our 80mill renovation, fan base and financial backing we need to make a huge splash this year and the door is open in Maui. We would get immediate National attention beating the likes of MSU or Kansas.
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Don't disagree with you but St. Louis certainly has not done enough to warrant them being able to dictate opponents. This is as much about recruiting battles and establishing the St Louis area for K-State as anything. I'm assuming K-State would be going there to play...
Last edited by steve; 06-18-2019 at 09:33 AM..
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06-17-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
New Mexico State
Buffalo
Belmont
Murray State
Utah State
Loyola Chicago
Posted via Mobile Device
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You can't be serious. THESE are the "good non-P5 teams," of which there are "plenty," that you covet?
All would be fine games. So let's look at the schedule sheets to see how many times they show up (assuming the sheets are valid).
https://basketballtravelers.com/docu...cheduling_.pdf
Nov 5-10: zero.
Nov 11-17: 1 (Murray State unless it's already been filled)
Nov 18-24: 1 (Murray State unless it's already been filled)
Nov 25-Dec 1: zero.
Dec 2-8: zero.
It's just not hard to imagine a scenario where 5 teams sounds like a lot. . . until you look at their fixed schedule and find out they're not available at any of the times we need to play them because of our fixed schedule.
Let's think about last year's schedule. You have from November 2nd to January 6th (first conference game). You can play 12 games (exempt counts as 1 but lasts 3-4 days). That's 61 total days, excluding holidays and finals week.
It's not terribly hard, all you have to do is:
1. Make sure it's not 3 days before or 3 days after another game
2. Make sure it's no more than 500 miles away (or add days)
3. Make sure it's not 3 days before or during finals week
4. Make sure it's at least 5 days before or after our exempt tournament
5. It's a good idea to have a woodshed game to warm up for the season.
With that criteria, every game accounts for about 4 days (~2 days before and ~2 after plus game day, accounting for overlaps). So 12 x 4 = 48 out of 61, but you have to subtract Christmas day, New Year's day, and finals week (plus Thanksgiving unless it's an exempt tournament) so 61 becomes 55. Subtract days for opening woodshed and you're close to 48 days fitting into a 50 day window. Easy??
AND each game you schedule automatically locks out other dates--so when you sign something for November 15, you automatically lock out November 12-18. So it's so easy to say "Murray State has the whole week of November 12-18 open, Neil is an idiot, why doesn't he schedule them??" Well that's because we had to get some stakes in the ground and we already had a game scheduled that week.
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06-17-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Don't disagree with you but St. Louis certainly has not done enough to warrant them being able to dictate opponents. This is as much about recruiting battles and establishing St Louis for K-State as anything. I'm assuming K-State would be going there to play...
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KState has THREE kids on their roster from St. Louis, including one of their best, if not the best, returning player in Sneed. A junior, a sophomore and a frosh.
SLU is getting Kstate at Chaifetz arena because Weber is winning the local recruiting battles and wants to 1) keep winning them and 2) give his recruits a game in front of local family and friends.
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06-17-2019, 01:27 PM
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Well then clearly the path to improving Dayton's non-con schedule is losing more local recruits.
http://www.monologuedb.com/comedic-m...bride-vizzini/
Last edited by Whacker; 06-17-2019 at 01:31 PM..
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06-17-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
You can't be serious. THESE are the "good non-P5 teams," of which there are "plenty," that you covet?
All would be fine games. So let's look at the schedule sheets to see how many times they show up (assuming the sheets are valid).
https://basketballtravelers.com/docu...cheduling_.pdf
Nov 5-10: zero.
Nov 11-17: 1 (Murray State unless it's already been filled)
Nov 18-24: 1 (Murray State unless it's already been filled)
Nov 25-Dec 1: zero.
Dec 2-8: zero.
It's just not hard to imagine a scenario where 5 teams sounds like a lot. . . until you look at their fixed schedule and find out they're not available at any of the times we need to play them because of our fixed schedule.
Let's think about last year's schedule. You have from November 2nd to January 6th (first conference game). You can play 12 games (exempt counts as 1 but lasts 3-4 days). That's 61 total days, excluding holidays and finals week.
It's not terribly hard, all you have to do is:
1. Make sure it's not 3 days before or 3 days after another game
2. Make sure it's no more than 500 miles away (or add days)
3. Make sure it's not 3 days before or during finals week
4. Make sure it's at least 5 days before or after our exempt tournament
5. It's a good idea to have a woodshed game to warm up for the season.
With that criteria, every game accounts for about 4 days (~2 days before and ~2 after plus game day, accounting for overlaps). So 12 x 4 = 48 out of 61, but you have to subtract Christmas day, New Year's day, and finals week (plus Thanksgiving unless it's an exempt tournament) so 61 becomes 55. Subtract days for opening woodshed and you're close to 48 days fitting into a 50 day window. Easy??
AND each game you schedule automatically locks out other dates--so when you sign something for November 15, you automatically lock out November 12-18. So it's so easy to say "Murray State has the whole week of November 12-18 open, Neil is an idiot, why doesn't he schedule them??" Well that's because we had to get some stakes in the ground and we already had a game scheduled that week.
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Don't disagree with any of that, you're arguing against a straw man or someone else on this thread
and for the record we can play 13 games
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06-17-2019, 02:41 PM
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I think UD administration has done a good job scheduling for the most part over the years. Our downfall has been in conference in play.
With the move to the 20 game conference schedule, conference challenges, etc. and the fact that many of the other mid major/non power conferences have eroded over the last decade (Missouri Valley, CAA, etc.) there's not as many good teams available to schedule
Neil has a hard job scheduling now and I think you can make argument that scheduling outside the power conferences for a program in UD's position is one of the hardest challenges in sports
all this is against the backdrop of a declining A10
The scheduling reality of the Oliver Purnell, Brian Gregory eras or even the 5 years ago doesn't hold. As Ted Kissell said 13-14 years ago we're entering into a new reality
The A10 is on a clear path of decline. It seems like the opportunities for power conference teams to play series with UD is on the decline.
Assuming UD can't count on getting as many good wins in conference play and they won't be able to get Auburn, Arkansas, Vandy or even a good team outside the P5 like Saint Mary's to play series
My contention is that if you can't count on the A10 as much for quality wins and the OOC is going to get weaker with fewer power conference teams (No fault of UD or Neil) maybe it's time to think of playing a few more road/neutral games (Top 75 NET for road win/ Top 50 for neutral/ Top 25 for home)
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06-17-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Neil Sullivan spoke the other day and said we came close to having Boston College for the opening of the newly completed arena but it fell through. He went on to say that schools like those in the big10 are immediately committed to 25 of their 31 games by way of their conference schedule and TV games like the big10/acc challenge. Accordingly, he said our ability to schedule p5 schools is severely undermined.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
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51m
Source: Boston College and Saint Louis will start a home-and-home series next season in Chestnut Hill. Return game at Saint Louis in 20-21.
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06-17-2019, 02:52 PM
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SLU also just got a home and home with Kansas State....
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06-17-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
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51m
Source: Boston College and Saint Louis will start a home-and-home series next season in Chestnut Hill. Return game at Saint Louis in 20-21.
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So maybe once again it is the ugly Jesuit thing rearing its head.
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06-17-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
So maybe once again it is the ugly Jesuit thing rearing its head.
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Some I'm sure too is recruiting/exposure. Greater St. Louis has a lot of Catholic high schools and is pumping out a lot of D1 prospects
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06-17-2019, 04:32 PM
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Colonel
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Good for SLU, glad they are building a competitive program, we need more of this in the A10.
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06-17-2019, 04:37 PM
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It is the fans fault that no Big name schools want to come here. We created an environment they do not want to visit.
We need to all show up late, leave half the seats empty, and golf clap at best.
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06-17-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
51m
Source: Boston College and Saint Louis will start a home-and-home series next season in Chestnut Hill. Return game at Saint Louis in 20-21.
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This is good. The A-10 needs all of these it can get.
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06-18-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
. . . . The A10 is on a clear path of decline. It seems like the opportunities for power conference teams to play series with UD is on the decline.
Assuming UD can't count on getting as many good wins in conference play and they won't be able to get Auburn, Arkansas, Vandy or even a good team outside the P5 like Saint Mary's to play series
My contention is that if you can't count on the A10 as much for quality wins and the OOC is going to get weaker with fewer power conference teams (No fault of UD or Neil) maybe it's time to think of playing a few more road/neutral games (Top 75 NET for road win/ Top 50 for neutral/ Top 25 for home)
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Boston College and Saint Louis will start a home-and-home series next season in Chestnut Hill. Return game at Saint Louis in 20-21.
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Originally Posted by flybye
SLU also just got a home and home with Kansas State....
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Ok, clearly it's us against the world - The A10 is of no use - The NBE and the Jesuits are protecting their own - We have no other viable league options - I accept the challenge because . . .
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. We've got this.
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06-18-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
It is the fans fault that no Big name schools want to come here. We created an environment they do not want to visit.
We need to all show up late, leave half the seats empty, and golf clap at best.
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I know this was probably meant as a joke but it is so true. We want our cake and we want to eat it too. You can't have one of the best atmospheres in college sports and simultaneously complain that no P5 teams are man enough to come play in it. One begets the other.
For example, anyone out there think Chaifetz Arena is as daunting as UD Arena. Bueller?
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06-18-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
I know this was probably meant as a joke but it is so true. We want our cake and we want to eat it too. You can't have one of the best atmospheres in college sports and simultaneously complain that no P5 teams are man enough to come play in it. One begets the other.
For example, anyone out there think Chaifetz Arena is as daunting as UD Arena. Bueller?
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That's exactly what's wrong with college sports...it used to be about playing and trying to beat the best teams, now its about protecting your CFB playoff chances/Net.
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06-18-2019, 02:26 PM
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General of the Air Force
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The Flyer fan base can be pretty delusional about how tough a place UD Arena can be to play in and its affect on scheduling.
Over the last 10 years, the Flyers are 6-4 against the P5+. I am being generous in calling Creighton (1 win) of 10 years ago a P5+ team as well as Seton Hall (1 loss) 9 years ago. Over that same period the Flyers lost to 7 non P5 teams. So we have more losses against the non-P5 than wins against the P5+.
Anymore, I don't think the Arena game environment has anything to do with P5+ teams not playing the Flyers at home. If things are going to change, I think it will take the Flyers repeatedly making significant noise in the pre-conference tourney.
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06-18-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
The Flyer fan base can be pretty delusional about how tough a place UD Arena can be to play in and its affect on scheduling.
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It doesn't matter how tough it actually is, it matters how tough it is perceived.
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06-18-2019, 02:45 PM
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Improved yearly performance and success in exempt tournemants and the A-10, would be a plus in making playing the Flyers a good win for a P-5 team and not a bad loss should the Flyers prevail. We are not there yet.
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06-18-2019, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
It doesn't matter how tough it actually is, it matters how tough it is perceived.
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And I don't think either the reality or the perception of how tough of a place to play has anything to do with the P5 not scheduling the Flyers at UD Arena.
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06-18-2019, 04:09 PM
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2nd Lieutenant
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I hate to change the subject and all, but who are we actually scheduled to play next year?
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06-18-2019, 04:20 PM
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Colonel
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The difference between the best and the worst home court advantage is rarely more than 3 points and has far more to do with the skill of the home team than any off-the-court factors. Nobody isn't coming to UD Arena because they're scared of us sweater vests. If you think otherwise, you're completely delusional.
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06-18-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
The difference between the best and the worst home court advantage is rarely more than 3 points and has far more to do with the skill of the home team than any off-the-court factors. Nobody isn't coming to UD Arena because they're scared of us sweater vests. If you think otherwise, you're completely delusional.
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Totally agree, about 235 d1 teams are +/- within 1 point of our home court advantage, which is hardly significant. Our hca is not preventing us from getting anybody to play here.
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06-19-2019, 08:51 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by ud2
I have acknowledged p5 reluctance countless times, so play the next best willing opponent. There are plenty of good, willing non-p5 opponents.
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Give me specific teams. I will ask Neil personally about them.
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
New Mexico State
Buffalo
Belmont
Murray State
Utah State
Loyola Chicago
Posted via Mobile Device
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Don't disagree with any of that, you're arguing against a straw man or someone else on this thread
and for the record we can play 13 games
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I love how you read the word "strawman" on a website once and now you think it applies whenever you get confused. I'm not arguing against a strawman. I'm arguing against you and ud2.
There are NOT "plenty" of good non-P5 teams, which is what ud2 said and Chris challenged ud2 to provide, and you then responded to.
I'm arguing that the 6 teams you listed in response to ud2's comments do not make up a "plenty" because, as I said and proved out, while it might look like a "plenty," given the shortness of time before conference play, it's extremely difficult to find a date for any 1 of those 6.
So "plenty" doesn't mean 5 or 10 in this circumstance, it means 25. 6 is plenty when you're looking for a barbeque restaurant within 1 mile. 6 is not plenty when you need to fill out a schedule with limited dates and many obstructions.
Yes, I'm aware that you didn't use the word "plenty" you just responded to Chris's challenge to provide them if there really are "plenty" of them. Lacking any context like "I agree there are not actually plenty, but here are 6 I'm interested in" it's logical to conclude that you were jumping on the "plenty" bandwagon with 6 off the top of your head.
And if you want to play more big name teams, I'll refer you back to my other post where last year we played Butler, Virginia, Mississippi State, Oklahoma, and Auburn. So maybe our problem is that we just need to win the games on our schedule.
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06-19-2019, 09:19 AM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by RuffReitrUD
I hate to change the subject and all, but who are we actually scheduled to play next year?
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Underrated comment
Posted via Mobile Device
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06-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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Some of you folks need to read Chris' latest Pride+ post on scheduling.
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06-19-2019, 01:35 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by Bigtimeflyersguy
Underrated comment
Posted via Mobile Device
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Not really. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see my latest iteration of the games we know at this point.
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06-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
A BBQ joint that doesn't sell hash is not a BBQ joint.
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Ahh, what kind if hash are you talking about?
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06-19-2019, 01:46 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
Not really. Scroll up a few posts and you'll see my latest iteration of the games we know at this point.
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A few posts! More like 75 posts. Ha!
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Mad Props to NorthwestFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-19-2019, 02:31 PM
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Colonel
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If UD draws VCU, SLU, URI, and DUQ again as part of their pod, that's potentially 4-5 quad 1 matchups. That's enough (plus Maui and Colorado) that 23, 24 to be safe, wins overall should be enough for an at-large. My sights are set higher, but that is a fine minimum.
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06-19-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
New Mexico State
Buffalo
Belmont
Murray State
Utah State
Loyola Chicago
Posted via Mobile Device
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I can confirm we approached several on your list and they said no.
Your next question is "well why not, they are in the same boat so they should want to play." Lets throw out date incompatibilities, travel issues book-ending other already-scheduled dates, final exam week, and various other completely above-bar reasons why a game cant get inked.
I think by and large a lot of these teams just dont understand the squeeze thats going on as well as they should and think the problem is less severe than it really is. If you dont crunch the data like UD does and go deep-six into the weeds to comprehend how the butter gets churned, you don't have much of an ability to create an escape strategy. Its the "you dont know what you dont know" conundrum. Its hard to solve problems when you fit that description.
Will Wade was one of the few guys in our circle that really "got it" and was willing to listen to UD and jump on board with what we are struggling to do. Unfortunately Wade is no longer in the A10 as an advocate and may ultimately be advocating for parole before its over.
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06-19-2019, 02:42 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by sheg
If UD draws VCU, SLU, URI, and DUQ again as part of their pod, that's potentially 4-5 quad 1 matchups. That's enough (plus Maui and Colorado) that 23, 24 to be safe, wins overall should be enough for an at-large. My sights are set higher, but that is a fine minimum.
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Agree. Overall firepower isn't a problem this year. Its just lackluster at home.
If trends hold SBU and Davidson will be at home. That's good for wins, but they are quad 2 games at home and likely could be quad 1 games on the road.
We can build our schedule around exempt tournaments as they are our best shot at P5 teams. But Maui is really special this year with all the great teams out there. We can't count on that level of tourny talent year after year. To duplicate SOS we'll have to find other ways.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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Mad Props to Wallage For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-19-2019, 02:44 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by CE80
I guess I have never been to a real BBQ joint because I had to do the google. I am more of a fan of Texas BBQ than southern/Carolina BBQ.
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As the Dixie Chicks might say, there's your trouble.
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06-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
As the Dixie Chicks might say, there's your trouble.
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I won't tell anyone else you are quoting the Dixie Chicks but considering they are from Texas, I think they may side more with me than you.
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06-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
A BBQ joint that doesn't sell hash is not a BBQ joint.
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Hash is mainly a SC thing. You rarely find it in NC's prolific BBQ places.
Posted via Mobile Device
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06-19-2019, 04:43 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I love how you read the word "strawman" on a website once and now you think it applies whenever you get confused. I'm not arguing against a strawman. I'm arguing against you and ud2.
There are NOT "plenty" of good non-P5 teams, which is what ud2 said and Chris challenged ud2 to provide, and you then responded to.
I'm arguing that the 6 teams you listed in response to ud2's comments do not make up a "plenty" because, as I said and proved out, while it might look like a "plenty," given the shortness of time before conference play, it's extremely difficult to find a date for any 1 of those 6.
So "plenty" doesn't mean 5 or 10 in this circumstance, it means 25. 6 is plenty when you're looking for a barbeque restaurant within 1 mile. 6 is not plenty when you need to fill out a schedule with limited dates and many obstructions.
Yes, I'm aware that you didn't use the word "plenty" you just responded to Chris's challenge to provide them if there really are "plenty" of them. Lacking any context like "I agree there are not actually plenty, but here are 6 I'm interested in" it's logical to conclude that you were jumping on the "plenty" bandwagon with 6 off the top of your head.
And if you want to play more big name teams, I'll refer you back to my other post where last year we played Butler, Virginia, Mississippi State, Oklahoma, and Auburn. So maybe our problem is that we just need to win the games on our schedule.
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I threw some names off of the top of my head on my phone when Chris said give me some names to ask about. Nothing more, nothing less
Did I use the word plenty? You admit I didn't then try to attribute to me anyways. I see some straw there but maybe that's just me
I said the schedule last year was great
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06-19-2019, 04:46 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Chris R
I can confirm we approached several on your list and they said no.
Your next question is "well why not, they are in the same boat so they should want to play." Lets throw out date incompatibilities, travel issues book-ending other already-scheduled dates, final exam week, and various other completely above-bar reasons why a game cant get inked.
I think by and large a lot of these teams just dont understand the squeeze thats going on as well as they should and think the problem is less severe than it really is. If you dont crunch the data like UD does and go deep-six into the weeds to comprehend how the butter gets churned, you don't have much of an ability to create an escape strategy. Its the "you dont know what you dont know" conundrum. Its hard to solve problems when you fit that description.
Will Wade was one of the few guys in our circle that really "got it" and was willing to listen to UD and jump on board with what we are struggling to do. Unfortunately Wade is no longer in the A10 as an advocate and may ultimately be advocating for parole before its over.
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thanks for the info
All you can do is try, if they aren't game or can't make it work than them's the breaks
as Ted Kissell said we're in a new reality
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06-19-2019, 07:04 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
Jalapeno sausage is a requirement. Then you can add brisket, pulled pork, or chicken as a second meat. For sides, you can't usually go wrong with creamed corn, green beans, baked beans, potato salad, macaroni and cheese, or if the place has a good slaw, make sure you get some.
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Sounds like you’ve been to blacks recently
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06-19-2019, 08:33 PM
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2nd Lieutenant
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Can we just list the non conference opponents for next season, and then just end the thread? The crying about the schedule, and the grandstanding with some super nerdy stat gives me hives. We can leave the BBQ talk as is.
Last edited by RuffReitrUD; 06-19-2019 at 08:36 PM..
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06-19-2019, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Let's look at our last five NCAA seeds and results:
2009 won as an 11 seed
2014 went to Elite 8 as an 11 seed
2015 won as an 11 seed
2016 lost as a 7 seed
2017 lost as a 7 seed
We also won as a 12 seed in 1990 and lost as a 4 seed in 2003. Seeding can help, but not as much as some people think. Once you get in the tournament it's all about match ups. I would rather have a scheduling philosophy geared to getting us into the tournament than a higher risk philosophy that might get us a better seed but could also cost us a bid altogether. Once you're in, anything can happen.
See above real life examples.
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Could not disagree more.
We would have gotten better seeds had we played a better schedule in all of your examples.
Your expectations are WAY too low. All of the other top 25 revenue producing programs have much higher expectations.
Our scheduling philosophy is actually resulting in fewer bids, and playing a weaker schedule is actually riskier by providing fewer chances for good wins. An injury at a bad time or a bad game against one of our few good opponents completely screws up the entire season.
In addition, I believe that the team gets up for good opponents, I think we have a better chance of winning tough games than you think we do.
We have lost the opening game in exempt tournaments, and it has completely screwed up our schedule.
And with a coach like BG, who clearly struggled in league play, we should have played a tougher OOC in order to compensate for his A10 struggles.
And I totally disagree about seeds being not important, that is complete nonsense.
Matchups are important, but you are much more likely to get a good matchup with a better seed, and your odds of advancing are much better with a better seed.
Last edited by ud2; 06-19-2019 at 11:51 PM..
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06-19-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
Realistically, in order to get 2 more good wins you will need to schedule 4 more good opponents and hope you win half the games. Expecting a better winning percentage against good teams is just not realistic.
With that said, good luck finding four more good teams willing to schedule us home & home every year.
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Agree to disagree. I think we stand a good chance of winning both games, I think we win 1 of 2 at a minimum the large majority of the time. And winning 1 of 2 puts us in the same position that we are in now.
We are only worse off if we lose both.
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06-20-2019, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Give me specific teams. I will ask Neil personally about them.
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For starters:
New Mexico
Belmont
Western Kentucky
MTSU
Murray State
Harvard
Boise State
Vermont
Old Dominion
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Seton Hall
Butler
St. John's
Northeastern
College of Charleston
Northern Iowa
Buffalo
NKU
New Mexico State
BYU
Tulsa
Iona
Bucknell
Toledo
Nevada
SDSU
Utah State
UNLV
Montana
South Dakota State
ETSU
UConn
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 01:13 AM..
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06-20-2019, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Throw out the performance of the Top-5 seeds vs the bottom 5 seeds. Thats 1-5 and 12-16. Those seeds are irrelevant to Dayton because Dayton will never earn one of those seeds -- they arent in a good enough league to earn a Top-5 and not in a bad enough league to earn the lone automatic bid behind all at-large teams seeded 1-11. So those metrics mean nothing.
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Completely disagree...we could definitely get a 3 or 4 seed, a 1 or 2 is pushing it IMO.
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06-20-2019, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
It's absolutely amazing the hubris displayed by some posters on this board regarding scheduling. I cannot imagine why none of you are Athletic Directors because apparently, it's just a matter of scheduling teams you think should play us, whenever, wherever, without regard to the finances involved. Despite what has been repeatedly relayed regarding the difficulties, apparently it's easier than a Thanos snap to get it done.
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Then how comes many other non-p5 teams consistently land home and homes that we supposedly can not get?
And what about Temple and Xavier abusing us every year in terms of scheduling when we were all in the A10?
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06-20-2019, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
1. Make sure it's not 3 days before or 3 days after another game
2. Make sure it's no more than 500 miles away (or add days)
3. Make sure it's not 3 days before or during finals week
4. Make sure it's at least 5 days before or after our exempt tournament
5. It's a good idea to have a woodshed game to warm up for the season.
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I disagree with points 1, 2, and 4.
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06-20-2019, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I agree it would be interesting to look at the numbers but 1 buy game turned into an away game would not really have much of an impact upon the schedule and the scheduling difficulties.
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2 buy games turned into better games would definitely have an impact. One or 2 years of doing that may not have an impact, but 2 more better games every year for a decade straight would have an impact, especially if we won more than our fair share, I think that things would start to snowball.
I just don't get why we won't attempt this even once. How comes Temple and Xavier did this consistently in the A10? They should have had a harder time since they were better than us, yet they did it all the time. We have never done this.
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 02:05 AM..
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06-20-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
You are making it appear as if men's BB footing the bill is a fundamental construct. It isn't! Peer institutions having athletic programs as robust as ours do NOT have such an advantage....a cash cow like UD men's BB. That is a huge plus in our favor, not some sort of handicap that hampers scheduling flexibility.
The flow of money from men's BB provides UD options not enjoyed by similar high-mid-majors. Indeed, because of that we are better positioned to afford one or two fewer home games. I've always been puzzled by the notion that we are somehow locked in to a certain number of home games in order to pay the bills.
The bigger reward financially and otherwise is making the Dance regularly and doing well when we get there. To the extent that scheduling flexibility advances us toward that objective....great! That's what we want.
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I totally agree.
Amen!!!
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06-20-2019, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
I can hardly wait for the meltdown by many when this years home non con is announced, as I fear it will be the ugliest ever. Prove me wrong UD
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Yep, the lack of news on the schedule is very concerning IMO. We have heard almost nothing.
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06-20-2019, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Completely disagree...we could definitely get a 3 or 4 seed, a 1 or 2 is pushing it IMO.
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No precedent for this. You are biting into blue sky. We are not Xavier and nobody named Jameer Nelson or Delonte West works here.
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06-20-2019, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Agree to disagree. I think we stand a good chance of winning both games, I think we win 1 of 2 at a minimum the large majority of the time. And winning 1 of 2 puts us in the same position that we are in now.
We are only worse off if we lose both.
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That you think UD has a good chance to win both games is why opponents want to play neither game.
__________________
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06-20-2019, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Comparing scheduling today to what X or Temple did 10-15 years a go is ridiculous. It is a totally different environment. The end conclusion is still the same - the Flyer's scheduling is not the problem.
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Why weren't we doing the same thing as them? That is my question. They are still doing this now some of the time BTW, even after they left the A10 and moved on to better leagues.
This is still happening today even as we speak.
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 02:27 AM..
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06-20-2019, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma
The Fly: Thank you for posting this SOS (Strength if Schedule) list. My eye was caught by a grouping of teams on this list starting at 119 Connecticut, 120 Notre Dame, 121 Oregon State, 122 Colorado and 123 Vanderbilt. I wish to openly criticize these schools for scheduling too many cupcakes on their schedule and betting that their conference affiliation will get them into the NCAA. Each of these teams would have been welcome on the Dayton schedule and it would have been a positive for those teams to play Dayton because it would have raised their SOS.
In particular I wish to highlight Notre Dame’s position on this list as I always considered this fellow catholic school as a natural rival. A rival who played us in the past but no longer is willing to schedule Dayton.
DePaul at 183 and Miami of Ohio at 178 as natural rivals are also disgracing themselves and could have bettered their SOS by playing Dayton.
As natural rivals, Cincinnati at 59 and Xavier at 45 have reasonable SOS.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Other than UConn, UC, and Miami of Ohio, those teams do not need ooc games like we do. And UConn did play a 15/15 last year. And that is why UC keeps losing in the 1st round despite dominating the AAC, their ooc sos isn't great, and they do not get a good seed.
And I doubt that Miami has ever earned an at-large bid.
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 02:36 AM..
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06-20-2019, 02:40 AM
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UD2...
Why haven't you interjected in the Pride+ conversation? No rebuttal?
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06-20-2019, 08:06 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Good lord!! ud2 has 12 of the last 15 posts, If he can't win with logic he'll try beating you down with numbers.
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06-20-2019, 08:08 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by ud2
I disagree with points 1, 2, and 4.
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The players need rest. You can't break all those rules and run them out there and expect them to perform.
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06-20-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
UD2...
Why haven't you interjected in the Pride+ conversation? No rebuttal?
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I think the answer is self-evident.
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06-20-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62
Good lord!! ud2 has 12 of the last 15 posts, If he can't win with logic he'll try beating you down with numbers.
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And it's great that he is making points that he has never made before.
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06-20-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
No precedent for this. You are biting into blue sky. We are not Xavier and nobody named Jameer Nelson or Delonte West works here.
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With all due respect, this is really a completely ridiculous post.
Under Archie we maxed out at a 7 seed.
I ran the rpi wizard.
If we drop our 2 worst ooc games and replace them with 2 home and homes vs. #100, and win both, which IMO is very doable, we already jump 10 spots in the rankings, so IMO, that already drops us down to a 5 seed right there.
If we get lucky and have sort of a best case scenario and beat WKU at home and MTSU on the road, we jump up 20 spots in the rankings. How much is 20 spots worth? 4-5 seeds maybe. That drops us to a 3 seed. Maybe a 4 seed.
We are already there if we just tweak the schedule!
Granted everything is NET now, but things have not changed all that much IMO.
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 10:30 AM..
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06-20-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
UD2...
Why haven't you interjected in the Pride+ conversation? No rebuttal?
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I was on vacay the last week and a half, and besides, I already spend enough time on this thread correcting everybody.
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06-20-2019, 10:44 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by ud2
With all due respect, this is really a completely ridiculous post.
Under Archie we maxed out at a 7 seed.
I ran the rpi wizard.
If we drop our 2 worst ooc games and replace them with 2 home and homes vs. #100, and win both, which IMO is very doable, we already jump 10 spots in the rankings, so IMO, that already drops us down to a 5 seed right there.
If we get lucky and have sort of a best case scenario and beat WKU at home and MTSU on the road, we jump up 20 spots in the rankings. How much is 20 spots worth? 4-5 seeds maybe. That drops us to a 3 seed. Maybe a 4 seed.
We are already there if we just tweak the schedule!
Granted everything is NET now, but things have not changed all that much IMO.
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Moving up 10 spots in the rankings does not mean we jump 2 seeds. You are dealing with P5 AD's that are picking the teams. Maybe we move up 1, but unless we beat a Duke or Michigan St, those 2 wins won't move you 2 full seeds.
Remember, when RPI was the big thing, Missouri State in 2006 was number 21, which by your logic should have been a 6 seed totally missed the tourney. Colorado State in 15 missed at number 29 in the RPI. I believe the last year of RPI being the big thing, the Bonnies were left out and they were low to mid 30's. In a perfect world we move up 2 seeds. We are not in a perfect world.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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Last edited by m21eagle45; 06-20-2019 at 10:47 AM..
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06-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
For starters:
New Mexico Sure
Belmont Maybe
Western Kentucky Maybe
MTSU 2 for 1, wouldn't do H&H
Murray State Lost a lot, have to look at what they return. Would do 2 for 1, maybe a H&H
Harvard Yes, but they play in a gym as small or smaller than Fordham
Boise State Have a conference challenge starting with them next year
Vermont No, most years they are decent, but play them in a down year and they are an anchor
Old Dominion Sure
Temple Sure
South Florida Yes, but only to beat BG
UCF Yes, but they lost a lot
Seton Hall Of course, but I do not think NBE schools should be on this list
Butler See Seton Hall
St. John's See Seton Hall
Northeastern No
College of Charleston Maybe, but again they need to be projected to be pretty good
Northern Iowa Yes
Buffalo Maybe, see how they do under the new coach
NKU No
New Mexico State Yes, but their current coach is looking to move up ASAP so it is a risk
BYU Yes
Tulsa Yes
Iona No
Bucknell No
Toledo Maybe
Nevada See Boise State
SDSU See Boise State
Utah State See Boise State
UNLV See Boise State
Montana No
South Dakota State Maybe a 2 for 1, definitely not a H&H
ETSU 2 for 1
UConn Yes, but I do not see them wanting to play us
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You can't just look at even last couple years performance for some schools and say the next 2 years they will be good. You have to project out. Some of these teams on here are good once every 4 years when they are a team loaded with seniors. Others are not consistent year to year.
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06-20-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
Yes I do, our non-con SOS didn't keep us out of the tournament last year, not winning the games did. Plus that's cherry picking, why don't you add up all the years Neil's been scheduling (which by the way goes back to well before he was AD) , average it, and then tell me what the number is?
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Neil took over in September 2015, so maybe he is responsible for the 2016 schedule and forward.
Our Kenpom ncsos does not look all that great.
Kenpom ncsos rank:
2018-2019...114
2017-2018...118
2016-2017...77
Average: 309/3=103
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=69
Kenpom...ncsos...adjem...A10 rank
New A10
2019...3
2018...5
2017...2
Neil average: 10/3=3.33.
That is not bad, but we should be #1 every year.
2015...5
2014...8
Old A10 with Butler in 2013, Charlotte leaves the A10 after 2013
2013...13
Old A10 without Butler
2012...9
2011...8
2010...5
2009...11
2008...7
2007...10
2006...7
Charlotte joins the A10 in 2006
2005...11
2004...9
2003...4
2002...12
130/18 seasons=7.22
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06-20-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
How comes Temple and Xavier did this consistently in the A10? They should have had a harder time since they were better than us, yet they did it all the time.
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For the 100th time: because they weren't consistently 8-8 in conference, and their home court was not murder on other schools.
Originally Posted by ud2
I disagree with points 1, 2, and 4.
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Days between games (points 1 & 4) for _avier in 2012-2013, their last year in the league: 4, 4, 5 (which was after a tournament exactly as I said), 5, 3, 10 (presumably finals, exactly like I said), 3, 7, 3, 8 starts conference play. Odd, that's nearly exactly what I said.
You're going to put our team on the road to New Mexico with 2 days rest before or after another big game? Good luck keeping your job as AD.
Originally Posted by ud2
And what about Temple and Xavier abusing us every year in terms of scheduling when we were all in the A10?
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For the 101st time, because they didn't consistently finish 8-8 in conference.
Originally Posted by ud2
If we drop our 2 worst ooc games and replace them with 2 home and homes vs. #100, and win both, which IMO is very doable, we already jump 10 spots in the rankings, so IMO, that already drops us down to a 5 seed right there.
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Well that should be easy to do, call up UConn and tell them we will be playing them on November 6th as our first game of the season. That's how you drop one of the 2 lowest RPI weights. Easy-peasy. I trust UConn has the dates open that we need, and that we can identify exactly who our 2 lowest RPI games will be before the season starts (that we'll be dropping), right?
Good lord, your list of "plenty" might as well include B10 schools. UConn? St. John's? m21eagle45 did a pretty good job of narrowing your "plenty" down to about 10-12.
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06-20-2019, 01:58 PM
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Xavier flat out out recruited us in the past. Talking about schedule as their success component is like saying Duke or UK is good because of their schedule.
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06-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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A10 Releases the Pairings for this season:
Home: Davidson, Fordham, George Washington, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, UMass, Rhode Island, Saint Louis, VCU
Road: George Mason, La Salle, Richmond, Saint Joe's, Duquesne, UMass, Rhode Island, Saint Louis, VCU
Same Pod of 5 as last year
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06-20-2019, 02:13 PM
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OK folks some real news. Atlantic 10 pods just came out. Teams we play twice, Duquesne, Rhode Island, st. Louis, VCU, uMass
Home: Davidson, Fordham, GW, Saint Bonaventure
Away,
George mason,
LaSalle, Richmond, st. Joseph.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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06-20-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Neil took over in September 2015, so maybe he is responsible for the 2016 schedule and forward.
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He's been the man with the hands on the scheduling wheel for over a decade. Wabler entrusted him w/it because he knew how to crunch the data. When he took over as AD, there were time consideration concerns that he might not be able to do it anymore but he's just working the additional hours to stay out in front of it. Hes pretty passionate about it.
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06-20-2019, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
A10 Releases the Pairings for this season:
Home: Davidson, Fordham, George Washington, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, UMass, Rhode Island, Saint Louis, VCU
Road: George Mason, La Salle, Richmond, Saint Joe's, Duquesne, UMass, Rhode Island, Saint Louis, VCU
Same Pod of 5 as last year
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disappointing that Davidson couldn't be a H/H for UMass
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06-20-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I was on vacay the last week and a half, and besides, I already spend enough time on this thread correcting everybody.
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BS...
You aren't correcting anyone. The complete destruction of your argument is in Pride Plus.
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06-20-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
You can't just look at even last couple years performance for some schools and say the next 2 years they will be good. You have to project out. Some of these teams on here are good once every 4 years when they are a team loaded with seniors. Others are not consistent year to year.
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Sullivan utilizes 5yr aggregate averages of RPI/KenPom etc to position the most likely candidates for scheduling to avoid the one-hit wonders or very inconsistent opponents (14-17 one year, 22-10 the next, 15-15 the next, 25-9 the next).
Once a basic working list is developed, UD then looks at every roster to see what's coming back, were there any injuries, did they win or lose a lot of close games to skew the numbers, etc. Percentage of scoring and rebounding returning is calculated into best candidates as well.
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06-20-2019, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
The players need rest. You can't break all those rules and run them out there and expect them to perform.
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Disagree...I found multiple examples of only 3 days rest before an exempt tourney and 4-5 days rest after an exempt tourney.
And I found multiple examples of only 2 days rest between games.
I may agree to travel 500 miles only for weekend games, but 500 miles for a weekend game is reasonable IMO.
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06-20-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
BS...
You aren't correcting anyone. The complete destruction of your argument is in Pride Plus.
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Fair enough...but I have also asked several questions in this thread that always go unanswered. Such as, why did we not match what Temple and Xavier were doing when they were in the A10? This went on for years and years and years, and we sat there and did not change anything.
They have a lot more scheduling credibility than we do. The results speak for themselves.
Last edited by ud2; 06-20-2019 at 11:23 PM..
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06-21-2019, 04:35 AM
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Can this thread be closed or renamed "ud2 knows more than everyone"? I keep coming here hoping, I know I'm insane, that there is actual information about next year's schedule, only to find ud2 telling us again how the schedule should be done.
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06-21-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Fair enough...but I have also asked several questions in this thread that always go unanswered. Such as, why did we not match what Temple and Xavier were doing when they were in the A10? This went on for years and years and years, and we sat there and did not change anything.
They have a lot more scheduling credibility than we do. The results speak for themselves.
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I don't disagree with the issues in the past that have led to some of the situation that we are in today. However, that blame game does nothing to address the reality that we are faced with today in terms of scheduling.
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06-21-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Fair enough...but I have also asked several questions in this thread that always go unanswered. Such as, why did we not match what Temple and Xavier were doing when they were in the A10? This went on for years and years and years, and we sat there and did not change anything.
They have a lot more scheduling credibility than we do. The results speak for themselves.
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For the 102nd time: because they didn't go 8-8 in conference every year, so it was not embarrassing to the fans, committee, and players to lose to the 8th place team in the 9th best conference.
Temple was in the A10 from 1982 - 2013. Dayton overlapped them in 1995 - 2013. In that overlap time Temple has had 3 second round NBA draft picks, and a first round draft pick. We had none. 2 extra games of scheduling would have changed the Jimmy's and Joe's on the squad?
In the 12 years preceding UD joining the A10, Temple went to the NCAA tournament 11 times, including 3 Elite 8's, and only 2 (!!) first round losses.
Read that again, ud2. 11 times. 11 f****** times. You know what UD did in those preceding years from 84 - 94? Elite 8 (in 1984), first round loss (1985), first round loss (1990). When we joined the A10 we had not been to the NCAA for 5 years, but we HAD gone 32-82, including 9-39 in conference.
Why didn't we schedule like Temple?? It's a mystery why top schools don't want a bad loss on their record back when we were in the A10 with Temple?
Then from 1995 - 2013 (the overlap years) Temple went 204-84, a winning % of 0.701, in the A10. Their worst finish was 6-10 (first year after Cheyney) and 8-8 (Cheyney's last year). Dunphy won 11 or more conference games 6 of his 7 years at the end of their A10 affiliation.
During that same time Dayton went 157-131, a winning % of 0.545 in conference. Our worst finish was as bad or worse than Temple's worst finish 4 times, and our single best finish (12-4) was matched or exceeded by Temple 9 times in 19 years. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, 9 TIMES.
We finished with 9 or less wins 12 years out of 19. Temple finished with 10 wins or more 15 out of 19 years.
Why didn't we schedule like Temple??
During that overlap time we went to the NCAA 4 times and won 1 game. Temple went 12 times and won at least 1 game 7 times, including 2 Elite 8's.
Why won't these schools schedule us? I dunno, I guess we didn't ask them.
Last edited by Gazoo; 06-21-2019 at 09:55 AM..
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06-21-2019, 10:22 AM
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Good post, but small correction, second round loss in 1990.
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06-21-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
BS...
You aren't correcting anyone. The complete destruction of your argument is in Pride Plus.
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Hey, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but I was on vacation for the last week and a half and was unable to post almost the whole time.
And what about the unnamed Mountain West team that Chris said is annually looking for an opponent? That was never addressed either. Why don't we just play them every single year? That would be better than some subpar buy game. And I do not care that the A10-MW challenge starts next year, play them in addition to the challenge.
And I bet there are other teams, just like the unnamed team, that are annually looking for opponents. I simply do not believe this garbage that nobody will play us.
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06-21-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
Can this thread be closed or renamed "ud2 knows more than everyone"? I keep coming here hoping, I know I'm insane, that there is actual information about next year's schedule, only to find ud2 telling us again how the schedule should be done.
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Hey at least he only expresses he knows more than everyone about only 1 subject. I’ve never blocked anyone before but this soap box is beyond annoying especially when your mind is made up already despite lots of facts and alternate realities. 12 of 15 posts from the same guy saying the same thing? As Cris Carter would say - ‘Come on man!’
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06-21-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I don't disagree with the issues in the past that have led to some of the situation that we are in today. However, that blame game does nothing to address the reality that we are faced with today in terms of scheduling.
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And you act like this is some ancient problem from long ago that has since been fixed. This is still going on today/right now. I repeat: this is still a lingering, current problem that has never been fixed for crying out loud.
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06-21-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Disagree...I found multiple examples of only 3 days rest before an exempt tourney and 4-5 days rest after an exempt tourney.
And I found multiple examples of only 2 days rest between games.
I may agree to travel 500 miles only for weekend games, but 500 miles for a weekend game is reasonable IMO.
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In how many examples of those games in very close proximity to a Tier 1 exempt basketball tourney (either before the tourney or after) were also against NCAA at large caliber opponents. In guessing hardly any.
The question is not whether you scheduled a game close to a major profile exempt tourney of heavyweights. Its whether you threw your players a similar heavyweight game right before or after that exempt tourney in question. Hardly any CBB program would subject their players to such antics. You dont want to enter Maui with a 25pt loss with your confidence completely shot, or arrive back from Maui when players heads are blitzed from 3 games in 3 days and 10000 miles of travel and visions of palm trees and hula girls still in their heads so they can play Auburn who's at home resting starters while playing cupcakes and with 5 days rest. All the while catching up on classwork.
There are factors involved you consistently ignore. Even 19yr olds get tired. Rest is as important to physical performance as is training. That includes decompression of the mind. I've been to Maui five times. Each time, I didnt return from Maui in the cognitive sense until about 10 days after my return home. I didn't want to be at work. I wanted to be back at the beach so I put my mind there bc it was the next best thing.
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06-21-2019, 12:16 PM
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How or where does one subscribe to pride plus so they can get inside information on the supposed schedule that is already out there?
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06-21-2019, 12:18 PM
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A few years ago Buffalo came to the Arena and beat the Flyers like a rented mule only 2 days after the Maui trip. Lesson well learned.
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06-21-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd
How or where does one subscribe to pride plus so they can get inside information on the supposed schedule that is already out there?
Posted via Mobile Device
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Just click on the link in your post.
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06-23-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
You can't just look at even last couple years performance for some schools and say the next 2 years they will be good. You have to project out. Some of these teams on here are good once every 4 years when they are a team loaded with seniors. Others are not consistent year to year.
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If the situation is as desperate as Chris says it is, then I do not think that we can turn down any of the schools on my list or even offer 2 for 1's if we are coming up 1 or 2 games short with our schedule.
We may not have the luxury to be so picky. Especially if VCU leaves the A10.
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06-23-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
You keep enjoying the NIT. So we had 4 chances and needed to win 50% to get those 2 wins. Instead of playing with barely better than Vegas odds why not schedule more and increase your odds of winning two? Again...an IU team lost 12 of 13 and were still almost in. But I understand you only care about going to the arena, seeing friends, and leaving at the 8min left media timeout so you can beat traffic.
To everyone saying we can’t get them play a H/H. We don’t need to. Go on the road and don’t expect a return game.
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Yep, I am quickly coming around to agreeing with this line of thinking.
Once or twice a year we might have to abandon the demand for a home and home series and just start offering 1 way road games with no strings attached vs. beatable opponents.
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06-24-2019, 01:09 PM
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@DavidPJablonski
There should be another bit of Dayton non-conference scheduling news announced soon: a second neutral-court game. Probably not the @GemCityJam, but that Twitter account can dream. It would add dozens of followers.
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06-24-2019, 01:09 PM
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David Jablonski
Verified account @DavidPJablonski
1 hour ago
There should be another bit of Dayton non-conference scheduling news announced soon: a second neutral-court game. Probably not the @GemCityJam, but that Twitter account can dream. It would add dozens of followers.
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06-24-2019, 03:00 PM
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Major General
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06-24-2019, 03:17 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Jon Rothstein
Verified account
@JonRothstein
6m6 minutes ago
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Saint Mary's will face Dayton in a neutral site game in Phoenix on December 8, 2019, per release.
Good Game
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11 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to lhsgolf19 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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AC91 (06-24-2019), Bucketnight (06-24-2019), ClaytonFlyerFan (06-24-2019), Clear Prop (06-25-2019), Columbia Blue (06-24-2019), Jeff (06-24-2019), Lifelong Flyer Fan (06-24-2019), m21eagle45 (06-24-2019), mikeymo85 (06-24-2019), Muckem333 (06-24-2019), RuffReitrUD (06-24-2019) |
06-24-2019, 03:22 PM
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2nd Lieutenant
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to RuffReitrUD For This Totally Excellent Post:
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