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  #301  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:38 AM
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Here's another rumor from a Xavier board. I would call it sort of bad news.



"And another thing, Xavier has already been approached by the Catholic 7 and while the UNIVERSITY didn't say no, they have said a very definite maybe[. Not yes, but maybe. Also, I'm told Dayton was not involved and that Xavier is the most appealing of the A10 catholics to be involved. Butler, VCU, St. Louis and believe it or not, Creighton.

The thought that maybe retaining the all-catholic aspect would mean that X, St. L, St. Joseph and or LaSuck (but only if they play all league games in the Palestra or the big hockey/basketball arena) Duquesne, too, If that happens Dayton, too. So from the A10--Slu, X, Day, St. J, LaS, Duq.and yes, Fordham if they play all league games in the arena where the A10 tourney will be this year. That's a 14-team league divided East and West.
I left St. Bonaventure out because there is no nearby gym of suitable size for them. What would occur is an 18-game schedule, 12 in your own division and six in the East. It would be a helluva TV package to offer: Markets in St.L., Chicago-Milwaukee, Cinti Dayton, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York Washington-Baltimore, Providence-Boston.....No more TWC, ESPN all the way, or CBS-Sports and CBS national. da** sight more money than BrunoMcG A10."
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  #302  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Here's another rumor from a Xavier board. I would call it sort of bad news.



"And another thing, Xavier has already been approached by the Catholic 7 and while the UNIVERSITY didn't say no, they have said a very definite maybe[. Not yes, but maybe. Also, I'm told Dayton was not involved and that Xavier is the most appealing of the A10 catholics to be involved. Butler, VCU, St. Louis and believe it or not, Creighton.

The thought that maybe retaining the all-catholic aspect would mean that X, St. L, St. Joseph and or LaSuck (but only if they play all league games in the Palestra or the big hockey/basketball arena) Duquesne, too, If that happens Dayton, too. So from the A10--Slu, X, Day, St. J, LaS, Duq.and yes, Fordham if they play all league games in the arena where the A10 tourney will be this year. That's a 14-team league divided East and West.
I left St. Bonaventure out because there is no nearby gym of suitable size for them. What would occur is an 18-game schedule, 12 in your own division and six in the East. It would be a helluva TV package to offer: Markets in St.L., Chicago-Milwaukee, Cinti Dayton, Pittsburgh, Philly, New York Washington-Baltimore, Providence-Boston.....No more TWC, ESPN all the way, or CBS-Sports and CBS national. da** sight more money than BrunoMcG A10."
I would call it Bull****.

Fordham a part of any deal?

That is like Wright State adding BCS football and joining the Big 10 next season.
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  #303  
Old 01-22-2013, 01:45 PM
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They don't need Fordham. They already have St John's and Seton Hall in the NYC area.
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  #304  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:09 AM
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http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...z-3-point-shot


From Andy Katz's blog this morning:

3. The Big East's departing seven Catholic, non-FBS schools are working on an exit plan, a television deal (sources continue to say Fox has an inside track) and ultimately a commissioner. The current commish who would be a fit is the West Coast Conference's Jamie Zaninovich. He has managed a private-school conference well of late and worked at Princeton, so he is not foreign to the Northeast. He had to deal with expansion in adding BYU and, next season, Pacific. Zaninovich already has contacts in the television industry and credibility within the NCAA tournament selection committee as a member. The committee might need to be lobbied to ensure an automatic berth once the league is formed.

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  #305  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
. . . The committee might need to be lobbied to ensure an automatic berth once the league is formed.

The only scenario where the automatic NCAA bid would be an issue would be a lesser school winning the conference tourney - this league is built for multiple at-large bids.

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  #306  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM
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Here is a mention of the C7 candidates as they relate to one another and the existing C7 schools in women's soccer. This piece also still carries VCU as a potential suitor for the C7 but, although nothing is ever certain, indications are VCU isn't in the running anymore.

I wish they had included women's basketball and volleyball, our stronger sports, and not just soccer.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/...ts/catholic-7/
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Here is a mention of the C7 candidates as they relate to one another and the existing C7 schools in women's soccer. This piece also still carries VCU as a potential suitor for the C7 but, although nothing is ever certain, indications are VCU isn't in the running anymore.

I wish they had included women's basketball and volleyball, our stronger sports, and not just soccer.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/...ts/catholic-7/
With Packers not in Super Bowl must be a slow sports day in Milwaukee for the Tribune to print a fairly random story.

If I'm UD I take exception to this: "It does not seem like Marquette’s women’s soccer team will be tested against any of the other teams that are likely to join the Catholic 7 conference, either. Butler, Virginia Commonwealth, Gonzaga, Xavier, Saint Louis, Dayton and Creighton have all been discussed as likely additions to the conference, but none of those teams even made it to the NCAA tournament." Typical comment when there's little research behind it. Women's soccer made the NCAA tournament in '10 and '11 and led nation in scoring avg in '12. To say that wouldn't be a test for anyone is bogus.

Maybe this is the first of a 3-part series and they will next write about volleyball and basketball. Don't count on it if it paints Marquette as puny.
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  #308  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:19 AM
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They are still bitter from UD beating Marquette in the NCAA tourney. Id almost rate Marquette sycophants worse than XU fans. I mean that.
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  #309  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:53 AM
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also remember this in 2008 (we were there) Chris Wright soared over their defender and scored . . . it was AWESOME.

"Rob Lowery scored a career-high 21 points last night and Dayton used its depth and quickness to beat No. 15 Marquette, 89-75, in the final of the Chicago Invitational Challenge in Hoffman Estates, Ill.

The Flyers' 6-0 start is their best since they won the first nine games in 2003-04.

Marquette (5-1) was beaten at its own fast-paced game."
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  #310  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:15 PM
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Lately the tea leaves say VCU is not currently under consideration for a birth in the C7. I assume that is the case, although many still think VCU is in the running. VCU posters are all over the fan boards promoting their school.

Over on the Providence boards I found this interesting recent interview with VCU's AD in which he says flat out that football at VCU is "just a matter of time" or words to that effect. I am assuming that unless the VCU administration backed away from that statement it would just about do it for their C7 chances.

http://vcuathletics.com/video/football.flv
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
I wish they had included women's basketball and volleyball, our stronger sports, and not just soccer.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/...ts/catholic-7/
Oh how soon they forget! Women's soccer has the most long-term success in the NCAA of these sports.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer View Post
Oh how soon they forget! Women's soccer has the most long-term success in the NCAA of these sports.
Well, obviously you are right. In fact, didn't we miss the NCAA last year on a game decided by penalty kicks? Darn close, as I recall.

But the article only mentioned last year, and soccer missed the NCAA's last year. Volleyball and basketball, if memory serves me, made the NCAA's.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:53 PM
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Chris Wright vs Marquette's Acker

Remember this?

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  #314  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:14 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Lately the tea leaves say VCU is not currently under consideration for a birth in the C7. . .

I didn't even know VCU was pregnant!

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  #315  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:59 AM
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All that Havoc, perhaps,.......but NO. It should have read, "a berth" in the C7."
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:53 PM
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Seems as though the current Big East is negotiating a one year tv deal for next year including all of the C7 schools. The hope that the C7 could get off the ground this Fall was always a slim one, but this, if factual, indicates it will be a certain 2014 start for the new conference.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4881
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  #317  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 PM
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This more or less confirms what the Jersey Guy reported yesterday. The Catholic 7 are included in the 1 year tv deal for the football/basketball Big East and so, logically, the new conference won't gat off the ground until Fall, 2014.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...-with-cbs-espn
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  #318  
Old 01-25-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
This more or less confirms what the Jersey Guy reported yesterday. The Catholic 7 are included in the 1 year tv deal for the football/basketball Big East and so, logically, the new conference won't gat off the ground until Fall, 2014.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...-with-cbs-espn
whats the next likely move to happen?

the new conference names a commish? a tv deal is announced?

seems like with us knowing the basketball schools are still tied to the BE until 2014...things might halt to a really slow grind.
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  #319  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:53 PM
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After the season,...

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
whats the next likely move to happen?

the new conference names a commish? a tv deal is announced?

seems like with us knowing the basketball schools are still tied to the BE until 2014...things might halt to a really slow grind.
I think the C7 will announce the naming of a commissioner as soon as they find one...which they will want to be ASAP. And I think the additional schools will be announced after the current season ends, i.e., after the NCAAs.

Even if the new league does not start until Fall of 2014,...the new schools will have plenty to do in the way of prep, and they'll want/need as much time as possible to do it.
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  #320  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:52 AM
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The BE wants to keep the "Big East Conference" name, so it looks like the new C7 conference will have to come up with a new name.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...hool-keep-name


CROMWELL, Conn. -- Big East commissioner Mike Aresco says the conference is looking to add another school, and may sign a TV deal with multiple networks.

Aresco spoke at a local chamber of commerce breakfast in Middletown on Monday, and talked to reporters afterward.

Aresco says the Big East wants to keep its name as it rebrands, and wants to add one more school to give it 12 playing both football and basketball after Navy joins the league in 2015.

He says he believes the conference realignment picture may be settling down. He also said he hopes deals can be worked out to keep traditional conference rivalry games intact even after the so-called "Catholic Seven" schools leave the Big East to form their own basketball league.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:20 PM
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It also looks Aresco put to bed any conjecture that UConn might be allowed to participate in the BE Tourney this year...that ship has sailed.
http://www.courant.com/sports/colleg...,6559236.story
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:40 PM
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If they get any real money for this, then the tv guys are stupid. i understand we ar ultimately paying the royalties in our tv bills, but they could put australian rules football back on ESPN and it would be more enticing for me to watch.

"The Big East is adding Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Memphis, East Carolina, Tulane and Navy in 2015. UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida and Temple are left over from the old Big East, so the conference will be at 11 football schools in 2015."
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:36 PM
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For what its worth...I was in a class today at UDLLI moderated by Bucky Albers. Jack Pohl and Hutch Konnerman (ch. 2) were guests. They didn't get into specifics but all 3 felt that UD getting into a league with the C7 was not looking real good even if they go with 12 teams. Just a week ago Mike Hartsock (ch. 7) thought that if they went with 12 teams we would be in and Bucky didn't argue.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCFLYER View Post
For what its worth...I was in a class today at UDLLI moderated by Bucky Albers. Jack Pohl and Hutch Konnerman (ch. 2) were guests. They didn't get into specifics but all 3 felt that UD getting into a league with the C7 was not looking real good even if they go with 12 teams. Just a week ago Mike Hartsock (ch. 7) thought that if they went with 12 teams we would be in and Bucky didn't argue.
That blows.
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  #325  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCFLYER View Post
For what its worth...I was in a class today at UDLLI moderated by Bucky Albers. Jack Pohl and Hutch Konnerman (ch. 2) were guests. They didn't get into specifics but all 3 felt that UD getting into a league with the C7 was not looking real good even if they go with 12 teams. Just a week ago Mike Hartsock (ch. 7) thought that if they went with 12 teams we would be in and Bucky didn't argue.
A total bummer. I don't imagine you could find any better connected sources than those three, and if they aren't optimistic it's a real concern.

It's my feeling that if things had gotten off the ground quickly (2013) we may have had a better chance. In the early going it seemed the Eastern schools wanted a compact league that would minimize transportation costs and time spent away from the classroom for athletes. But when TV got involved I am sure market size suddenly trumped everything else and our advantages were put by the wayside.

Again, totally devastated by the report. I hope it isn't true.
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  #326  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCFLYER View Post
For what its worth...I was in a class today at UDLLI moderated by Bucky Albers. Jack Pohl and Hutch Konnerman (ch. 2) were guests. They didn't get into specifics but all 3 felt that UD getting into a league with the C7 was not looking real good even if they go with 12 teams. Just a week ago Mike Hartsock (ch. 7) thought that if they went with 12 teams we would be in and Bucky didn't argue.
Those guys are in the media. I would believe they are not in the loop.

So far admin has been tight lipped. The university usually plays their cards close to the vest.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Those guys are in the media. I would believe they are not in the loop.

So far admin has been tight lipped. The university usually plays their cards close to the vest.
agreed with this. this isn't to say the admin aren't chummy with the likes of bucky, pohl and others. i'm just not sure if they were to bring up whats going on, the admin would be willing to disclose anything more than just the usual we're open to the idea/our options/anything to help improve the program.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:13 PM
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Sure hope you're right.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:37 PM
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The longer this drags out the less favorable it is for us, IMHO.

A few months ago all you seemed to hear from Thamel and others with a good track record was, X, UD and BU with SLU, Creighton, VCU and Gonzaga bringing up the rear. In the last few weeks that has changed.

I realize that no one except the C7 Presidents know what will eventually transpire. But the more that bidding by the tv networks proceeds the more I dislike what I am hearing. There's money here. The networks want eyeballs and they want hot schools (the "programs De Jour") that have curb appeal, recent NCAA success, and that the less-than-knlowledgable fan is likely to recognize and tune in to. Forget the fact that these schools are only a coach leaving away from returning to playing before 5K tepid fans while some replacement coach desperately struggles to get the ship back on it's meteoric course.

UD's advantages are subtle: we will always support our team even in down times, we are a natural travel partner for both X and Butler, we bring UD Arena one of the best venues in college basketball, and we are essentialy an old school, basketball-first program. Then there are the non-revenue sports which are very strong and getting stronger.

Don't get me wrong: the A10 is a great place to land if we crash. But I think we have undersold our product and had some bad timing too if we don't end up in the C7.

Last edited by bobber; 01-30-2013 at 09:50 AM..
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
A total bummer. I don't imagine you could find any better connected sources than those three, and if they aren't optimistic it's a real concern.


Again, totally devastated by the report. I hope it isn't true.
I have sources a lot higher up than local media slaps. The last thing UD would do right now is tell media guys their plans before things are official. My sources are still very optimistic.
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  #331  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I have sources a lot higher up than local media slaps. The last thing UD would do right now is tell media guys their plans before things are official. My sources are still very optimistic.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
The longer this drags out the less favorable it is for us, IMHO.
i can see why you think that...but with the tv meetings taking place the teams have to have been determined already. the tv people are going to want to know what markets they are getting before they offer any type of deal.

so if that reported deal from fox was actually offered, then they know which teams this conference is targeting. i guess its possible they laid out like 10 of them, and said we're debating among 3-4 teams for the final 1-2 spots, are you good with any of these we choose.

i would say thats unlikely considering the yrs/money they are committing. they're going to want to know who is in for good.
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  #333  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:32 AM
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A lot of people have to be involved...

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
i can see why you think that...but with the tv meetings taking place the teams have to have been determined already. the tv people are going to want to know what markets they are getting before they offer any type of deal.

so if that reported deal from fox was actually offered, then they know which teams this conference is targeting. i guess its possible they laid out like 10 of them, and said we're debating among 3-4 teams for the final 1-2 spots, are you good with any of these we choose.

i would say thats unlikely considering the yrs/money they are committing. they're going to want to know who is in for good.
When the president meets with a handful of people in the Oval Office on matters of national security......very shortly thereafter what was discussed has leaked out to the media.

Hard to believe that in the C7 discussed specific schools during meetings with the TV guys that the names of those schools would be known almost immediately.

That's just the way people are.

Further, it is considered very poor form to approach schools without giving the targeted conference(s) commissioner a courtesy "heads-up".
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
When the president meets with a handful of people in the Oval Office on matters of national security......very shortly thereafter what was discussed has leaked out to the media.
Sure - if the plan is to leak it out. If it's meant to be kept secret, it isn't leaked. (Usually.)
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  #335  
Old 01-30-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
When the president meets with a handful of people in the Oval Office on matters of national security......very shortly thereafter what was discussed has leaked out to the media.

Hard to believe that in the C7 discussed specific schools during meetings with the TV guys that the names of those schools would be known almost immediately.

That's just the way people are.

Further, it is considered very poor form to approach schools without giving the targeted conference(s) commissioner a courtesy "heads-up".
Was it leaked out that we were on our way to capture Bin Laden? Was it leaked out that for months we had been monitoring his hiding spot awaiting final confirmation and a plan for extraction? No. While the white house was talking about protests and video taps, was it leaked that Benghazi was a potential terreroist act? Yes, probably b/c somebody w/n the administration didn't like the direction the white house was taking and leaked out the real news so they could push their agenda.

This isn't a matter of national security, but similar rules apply. Why was the fox deal leaked? Pretty simply, the ADs of the C7 wanted ESPN, CBS, NBC and other potential suitors what they needed to bring to the table if they wanted to compete for TV rights.

Who's going to call the commissioner? There is no official commissionar or conference that could make such a call. Further more, there was a meeting regarding expansion (and you know **** well this was brought up as Agenda A) amongst all A-10 schools. Its likely the A10 commish and member schools have a pretty good idea of what the picture being drawn is going to look like well before the public knows. McGlade didn't get to her position w/o having connections. Even if no one from Georgetown, SJU, Marquette, etc... would field her calls, there's a pretty good chance someone at ESPN, NBC or CBS would field her calls letting her know what teams they discussed in their TV negotiations. If this is a 2014 things as indications seem to point to, the teams involved outside of the C7 probably don't want their names leaked until the season concludes. I'm guessing we start getting a pretty clear picture around the final 4.

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  #336  
Old 01-30-2013, 01:12 PM
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Yeah, but,...

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Was it leaked out that we were on our way to capture Bin Laden? Was it leaked out that for months we had been monitoring his hiding spot awaiting final confirmation and a plan for extraction? No. While the white house was talking about protests and video taps, was it leaked that Benghazi was a potential terreroist act? Yes, probably b/c somebody w/n the administration didn't like the direction the white house was taking and leaked out the real news so they could push their agenda.

This isn't a matter of national security, but similar rules apply. Why was the fox deal leaked? Pretty simply, the ADs of the C7 wanted ESPN, CBS, NBC and other potential suitors what they needed to bring to the table if they wanted to compete for TV rights.

Who's going to call the commissioner? There is no official commissionar or conference that could make such a call. Further more, there was a meeting regarding expansion (and you know **** well this was brought up as Agenda A) amongst all A-10 schools. Its likely the A10 commish and member schools have a pretty good idea of what the picture being drawn is going to look like well before the public knows. McGlade didn't get to her position w/o having connections. Even if no one from Georgetown, SJU, Marquette, etc... would field her calls, there's a pretty good chance someone at ESPN, NBC or CBS would field her calls letting her know what teams they discussed in their TV negotiations. If this is a 2014 things as indications seem to point to, the teams involved outside of the C7 probably don't want their names leaked until the season concludes. I'm guessing we start getting a pretty clear picture around the final 4.
Med, re the Bin Laden example, you'll recall the famous photo of the pres and his gang watching developments in the situation room. I'll bet that when Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden first walked into that room they did not know why they were there.

As regards the A10 meetings and the C7 meetings.....the infomation, while sensitive, does not involve exceptionally important matters. And those in the know include guys like the loud-mouthed Marquette AD. Then there are people in the A10 office and people at the TV networks.

For sure, the more people involved, the more likely that meaningful information will be revealed. And, as you remarked, Bernadette is very well connected...as are our own Dan and Tim. To the extent that specific schools are being discussed and the liklihood that they will be asked to join with the C7, I think our folks already know.

It's their job to know.

Re "what" Dan and Tim already know, and assuming UD wants to join with the C7, in my opinion the following scenarios are operative:

1. UD has been told that it will be invited to join the C7, in which case UD informs the C7 it will accept and just waits.

2. UD receives an indication that it will not be invited, or, UD is among a group of a few schools, only one or two of which will be invited. In this case, I think it's incumbent upon Dan/Tim to prepare and document a strong point-by-point case for the C7 detailing why/how the C7 league will benefit from, and needs, UD.

There is a lot at stake here...far more than just money, which itself is considerable. Dan and Tim cannot sit around and wait to be invited. They have to know if they are going to be invited...and if not, make the case for UD's inclusion.

To repeat what I believe SDF said: "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate".
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:33 PM
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All the NCAA games hosted by UD over the years (100+).......12,600/nite...the NCAA Play- in game for some 10 years.....now the First Four. All welcomed and appreciated by the local fans but obviously not by the rest of the USA. Over the last 15 years UD has done a great job of improving the performance/W-L records of their non-revenue teams.....built great non-rev facilities/venues....but when it comes time for the Catholic 7 to take that into consideration it does not mean SH*T outside of the Miami Valley. If it did the C7 would be jumping at the chance of adding UD to their proposed conference.

What matters is trips to the NCAA which generates national recognition and tv ratings and the Flyers have not done that enough to influence anyone outside of Dayton,
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:41 PM
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While, ceterus paribus, I'd just as soon stay where we are, if they can get the type of dough that is being bandied about, sure I'd really want UD to be part of that new conference. However, to assume we are part of it or, conversely, not part of that new league at this point is just pointless. Nobody knows with any certainty what the deal is yet (i.e. who is/will be invited, what the structure will look like, what the broadcast rights are really worth, how the funds will get distributed, etc.); it's all conjecture. Everybody has an opinion, everybody has a source and, yet, nobody knows. So before we go off the rails thinking the worst and castigating everyone in sight, let's just "chill" and let things pan out. Getting our collective panties in a knot over this at this time is just silly.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
While, ceterus paribus, I'd just as soon stay where we are
But all other things are not equal. Even putting money aside, being in the new conference will help recruiting and will help us keep a good coach or hire a better coach when the situation presents itself. It will raise our national profile and help us get to where we want to be. Staying in an A-10 without Butler, Xavier, St Louis, Temple, Charlotte, possibly VCU and probably UMass is a depressing thought.
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  #340  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:31 PM
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Yes and no, Bat,...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
While, ceterus paribus, I'd just as soon stay where we are, if they can get the type of dough that is being bandied about, sure I'd really want UD to be part of that new conference. However, to assume we are part of it or, conversely, not part of that new league at this point is just pointless. Nobody knows with any certainty what the deal is yet (i.e. who is/will be invited, what the structure will look like, what the broadcast rights are really worth, how the funds will get distributed, etc.); it's all conjecture. Everybody has an opinion, everybody has a source and, yet, nobody knows. So before we go off the rails thinking the worst and castigating everyone in sight, let's just "chill" and let things pan out. Getting our collective panties in a knot over this at this time is just silly.
No one knows specific details. But, enough is known to conclude that for UD to be left out will be a very big hit, indeed.

Some things that are known to a pretty high degree of certainty:

1. The TV deal that the C7 will get will mean somewhere between $1 and $2 million more per team than the A10 deal....maybe more than that.

2. The new conference will be a 4-5 bid league with the likes of GU, VU, and MU from the C7,...and highly probable, the likes of XU and BU from the A10.

3. The new C7 league will be the best non-power conference by a wide margin....often better than one or more power conferences.

4. The A10, now as good or better than the C7, will be weakened significantly because its best teams are the ones likely to be added by the C7The A10 likely will drop from the #7 spot to the #9-#10 range. The A10 becomes a one bid league, two occassionally.

What will remain of the A10 won't be bad...out of 30+ Div 1 conferences the A10 still will likely be among the top 10. But the new C7 league will probably be a top 5 conference.

So, it may be silly to thrash around over specific details that cannot be known at this stage. But, what is known does not paint a pretty picture for those left out.

Seems to me about the only plan to salvage the A10 as a top-tier league might be for the four or five remaining schools that take BB very seriously to step up and force as best they can the weak sisters to start investing seriously in men's BB excellence. Does that sound likely? Not to me.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:42 PM
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It is just AMAZING what you guys have talked yourselves into..... You are like a bunch of old ladies with toooo much time on your hands. This thread has been going on for 3 weeks and there has been zero new concrete info after the second day. But the drivel keeps coming.
UD will be fine - if they are in - or if they are not! I believe that the UD pres is not going to just sell our soul for the almighty dollar....
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  #342  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
It is just AMAZING what you guys have talked yourselves into..... You are like a bunch of old ladies with toooo much time on your hands. This thread has been going on for 3 weeks and there has been zero new concrete info after the second day. But the drivel keeps coming.
UD will be fine - if they are in - or if they are not! I believe that the UD pres is not going to just sell our soul for the almighty dollar....
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste...
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  #343  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:54 PM
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You're right, Terry,...sort of,...

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
It is just AMAZING what you guys have talked yourselves into..... You are like a bunch of old ladies with toooo much time on your hands. This thread has been going on for 3 weeks and there has been zero new concrete info after the second day. But the drivel keeps coming.
UD will be fine - if they are in - or if they are not! I believe that the UD pres is not going to just sell our soul for the almighty dollar....
You have to be careful what you wish for. A case could be made that UD BB might shine brigher in a weaker A10. Butler did quite nicely in the Horrizon league.

The fact is, Dayton is not doing well in the A10 as it is. We're an average team, no better.

By assuming all the good things that will come our way in a C7-based conference we are assuming that somehow the level of UD BB will increase significantly. There are no guarantees that will happen. We may go from being average in the A10 conference to being in the bottom third of a stronger conference.

Nonetheless, having high expectations is a good thing, I suppose,..and normal. As longtimer points out, one can think of some solid advantages for Flyer BB and UD generally should we wind up with the C7 gang. Pride is a factor as well. No one likes the feeling of "not being good enough" to be included.
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  #344  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:44 PM
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C7 commissioner?

Seems as if a very high priority and one of the first things the C7 would do is to hire a commissioner,..even if on an interim basis. How can the seven schools function in a reasonably orderly and efficient fashion absent a single executive at the point?

Mike Tranghese would be a natural as an interim commissioner. He has been close to the C7 for two decades.....knows the ropes and would be invaluable helping them identify a permanent commissioner.

I wonder if perhaps not everything is a bed a roses among the C7. MU and DU do not have much of a history with the east coast five and are far away. Then there is the possibility that GU and VU both want to call the shots and are not in complete agreement as to who to "shoot".

VU and GU are an arrogant pair; and I'll bet look down their noses at the other five,....especially those unwashed mid-westerners.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:33 AM
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I don't put any credence in this Twit from the east saying there are rumors that ND is considering swithcing from the ACC to the C7. For one thing, ND would have to know for an absolute fact that the ACC is going to be seriously ravaged in the near future. And, secondly, the huge ACC exit fee would seem to be a real deterent.

But, one never knows, does one. All you have to do is consider TCU's abrupt pull out from the crumbling Big East, or SDSU, or BSU......I bet ND is in no hurry because they can get into the C7 any time they want. And then too, there's the olympic sports issue. I think ND wants a stronger conference for its non-revenue sports than the C7.

I just don't see it, but here it is.

https://twitter.com/StartTheFriars/s...34878792462337
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
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Why not, bobber? Everybody and their brother have heard "something" from any number of "reliable" sources, so why not this latest twist on the musical chairs game? What the hey, ND, go for it...or not.*

*It'd be great to see some sort of schematic depicting every configuration that's ever been cited as to what the new and improved BB Conference would look like. Ya know, something akin to the "NCAA Tourney Bracketology"; of course, it should be limited to only those from "reliable" sources within the past 60 days, otherwise there may not be enough space.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
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Last week I heard from a friend of a friend who allegedly knows someone "in the know" that the University Presidents want/voted for UD but that Fox wants VCU because of their market. It would be Creighton, St Louis, Xavier, Butler, and VCU instead of UD. Have no idea how reliable this is.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Why not, bobber? Everybody and their brother have heard "something" from any number of "reliable" sources, so why not this latest twist on the musical chairs game? What the hey, ND, go for it...or not.*

*It'd be great to see some sort of schematic depicting every configuration that's ever been cited as to what the new and improved BB Conference would look like. Ya know, something akin to the "NCAA Tourney Bracketology"; of course, it should be limited to only those from "reliable" sources within the past 60 days, otherwise there may not be enough space.
I realize it is getting carzy. If you guys want, I'll just stop posting what I find.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Last week I heard from a friend of a friend who allegedly knows someone "in the know" that the University Presidents want/voted for UD but that Fox wants VCU because of their market. It would be Creighton, St Louis, Xavier, Butler, and VCU instead of UD. Have no idea how reliable this is.
Seriously? Maybe for VCU's name recognition based on their Final Four, but for the TV market? For Richmond?

Richmond/Petersburg ranks #58.
Dayton ranks #64.
At that level, I can't believe it makes any difference.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets
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  #350  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
I realize it is getting carzy. If you guys want, I'll just stop posting what I find.
My vote is you keep posting, but preferably more good news than bad news.

Thanks for what you have posted to date.
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  #351  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
Seriously? Maybe for VCU's name recognition based on their Final Four, but for the TV market? For Richmond?

Richmond/Petersburg ranks #58.
Dayton ranks #64.
At that level, I can't believe it makes any difference.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets
On an unrelated note, I was curious about the largest market that has a legitimate complaint about not having a pro sports team.

The Raleigh-Durham market gets screwed in terms of professional sports. #27 TV market, but no professional sports teams. I guess that's part of why Duke-UNC is so big... the #27 TV market with nothing but college basketball to root for. Then again, the Duke-UNC focus might also be why there are no major league pro sports teams there, and probably shouldn't be.

Hartford/New Haven is next on the list in terms of large market with no pro sports... but they're sandwiched between New York and Boston, so it's understandable.

Next is Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson. They're so spread out I can't believe they're called one market. Asheville is nearly as far from the other 3 as Charlotte is. With Charlotte that close, it's hard to make any claim they deserve a team.

West Palm Beach is too close to Miami.

Which brings us to Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo. Grand Rapids is over 2 hours from either Detroit or Chicago... making this the largest market to have a claim on getting a major league sports franchise. I think it's also too small for one, which I guess means they do a decent job in deciding where the teams should go.

*end sidebar*
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  #352  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Last week I heard from a friend of a friend who allegedly knows someone "in the know" that the University Presidents want/voted for UD but that Fox wants VCU because of their market. It would be Creighton, St Louis, Xavier, Butler, and VCU instead of UD. Have no idea how reliable this is.
Source?
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  #353  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:19 PM
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Doesn't Raleigh have the former Hartford Whalers now called The Hurricanes?
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  #354  
Old 02-01-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinFlyer View Post
Source?
Funny stuff. I know I have asked for sources in the past when someone simply states something as fact. I didn't state this as fact and I gave the source the best I could and said I didn't know how reliable the info is.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
On an unrelated note, I was curious about the largest market that has a legitimate complaint about not having a pro sports team.

The Raleigh-Durham market gets screwed in terms of professional sports. #27 TV market, but no professional sports teams. I guess that's part of why Duke-UNC is so big... the #27 TV market with nothing but college basketball to root for. Then again, the Duke-UNC focus might also be why there are no major league pro sports teams there, and probably shouldn't be.

Hartford/New Haven is next on the list in terms of large market with no pro sports... but they're sandwiched between New York and Boston, so it's understandable.

Next is Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson. They're so spread out I can't believe they're called one market. Asheville is nearly as far from the other 3 as Charlotte is. With Charlotte that close, it's hard to make any claim they deserve a team.

West Palm Beach is too close to Miami.

Which brings us to Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo. Grand Rapids is over 2 hours from either Detroit or Chicago... making this the largest market to have a claim on getting a major league sports franchise. I think it's also too small for one, which I guess means they do a decent job in deciding where the teams should go.

*end sidebar*
As noted by BOF02, Raleigh does have the Hurricanes. Also, I don't know your source, but I would think the Las Vegas market has to be somewhere on this list.
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  #356  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:19 PM
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No, bobber, keep posting what you find. My previous remark wasn't a crack at you or your Post, but really made just to point out that it seems like everybody and their brother has a source that says something different and as a result, no one should really get too worked up (one way or another) over anything that's implied. Until there is something official, rumors will continue to swirl and a person could get whiplash if he/she takes it with anything but a pound of salt.

BTW, longtime, I thought you were being facetious citing "a friend of a friend who allegedly knows someone "in the know" "...because that's what a lot of this comes down to.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
BTW, longtime, I thought you were being facetious citing "a friend of a friend who allegedly knows someone "in the know" "...because that's what a lot of this comes down to.
I see how it could be read that way, but that was actually my source (for whatever it's worth). Let's hope it is just another erroneous rumor.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BOF02 View Post
Doesn't Raleigh have the former Hartford Whalers now called The Hurricanes?
Yes, and they won the Stanley Cup a few years ago. I went to game 5 of the finals. It was so loud, some fans wore ear plugs. Now if only the Flyers........
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:27 PM
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:45 PM
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Andy Katz article today saying that the C7 league is only going to go to 10 teams. Butler and Xavier are the top two choices, and the third team has not been determined yet.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...15&w=1cl26&wjb

"Villanova knows who its six other conference members will be, but the seven will likely bump to 10 whenever it forms a new league. The top two choices will be Xavier and Butler out of the A-10. Questions remain about the third. The seven is likely going to stay private, and not necessarily Catholic. The question will be does the league go south or further west? Don't be surprised if Georgetown influences the decision and tries to get Richmond -- a scholarly school that has a decent hoop tradition and is geographically close enough to the others."
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Andy Katz article today saying that the C7 league is only going to go to 10 teams. Butler and Xavier are the top two choices, and the third team has not been determined yet.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...15&w=1cl26&wjb

"Villanova knows who its six other conference members will be, but the seven will likely bump to 10 whenever it forms a new league. The top two choices will be Xavier and Butler out of the A-10. Questions remain about the third. The seven is likely going to stay private, and not necessarily Catholic. The question will be does the league go south or further west? Don't be surprised if Georgetown influences the decision and tries to get Richmond -- a scholarly school that has a decent hoop tradition and is geographically close enough to the others."
I am not sure how to interpret that. He says "likely bump to 10". Not sure he is trying to be that definitive. At least that is my interpretation of the quote. I guess we will find out soon enough.
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  #362  
Old 02-05-2013, 07:05 PM
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According to the DDN, Baltimore and New Orleans were the top two TV markets for the Super Bowl, and Dayton was fifth. I assume that is some kind of percentage and not actual viewers, but it still seems pretty impressive. I assume this will be made known to the BE-7, unless the decision has already been made.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
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No chance?

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
According to the DDN, Baltimore and New Orleans were the top two TV markets for the Super Bowl, and Dayton was fifth. I assume that is some kind of percentage and not actual viewers, but it still seems pretty impressive. I assume this will be made known to the BE-7, unless the decision has already been made.
In my opinion,...opinion,...UD has little or no chance to connect with the C7. Dayton is just too close to Cincinnatti. Xavier brings the TV market. With a 12 team league...perhaps 50-50, at best.

Also, I think that if BU is selected the C7 and BU both would like another non-Catholic school.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
In my opinion,...opinion,...UD has little or no chance to connect with the C7. Dayton is just too close to Cincinnatti. Xavier brings the TV market. With a 12 team league...perhaps 50-50, at best.

Also, I think that if BU is selected the C7 and BU both would like another non-Catholic school.
Xavier market is Middletown south to Kentucky. The do not draw north of Middletown, just as Dayton does not draw south of Middletown. Two close but entirely different markets.

As noted Dayton was 5th in the Super Bowl listing of markets.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:10 AM
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Market too small

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Xavier market is Middletown south to Kentucky. The do not draw north of Middletown, just as Dayton does not draw south of Middletown. Two close but entirely different markets.

As noted Dayton was 5th in the Super Bowl listing of markets.
No one can question the devotion and loyalty of the UD market "north of Middletown"...and the percentage of viewers is high. But, the size of the market is very small on a national basis.

Losing out will hurt in many ways...and the A10 will no longer be the best non-BCS league. But, if the losses are limited to X, BU and Richmond...and SLU doesn't jump,...the A10 will be far from doomed. But, the "new" A10 should wake up to the challenge and do all it can to improve.

UD in a C7 league sounds great...."sounds" great. But we could well wind up as the Fordham of the new league, absent a profound improvement. We expect that such an improvement would occur. But, we expect lots of things from Flyer BB that simply don't materialize, sadly.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:16 AM
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I think we would have much better succes in the C7 than we are having in the A-10 basically because we fit their style of bball better. Our success rate vs. BCS schools is solid, can't say the same for A-10. C7 is geared more to our style of offense and defense. Too much zone in the A-10 and we have never been a very good zone team, offense or defense.

So I like our prognosis better for the C7plus
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:06 AM
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I've been trying to convince the Oakwood HS AD to move into the GCL for years for the exact same reasons.

He thinks I'm nuts!
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  #368  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
He thinks I'm nuts!
At least we are all on the same page.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:58 AM
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Would anyone really be that upset if the C7 raided only 2-3 teams from the A10? To me the real risk lies in the possibility that they go to 12 and we are STILL left out.

I think the A10 would be in fine shape if only 2-3 teams were taken.
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  #370  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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Really!?

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
I think we would have much better succes in the C7 than we are having in the A-10 basically because we fit their style of bball better. Our success rate vs. BCS schools is solid, can't say the same for A-10. C7 is geared more to our style of offense and defense. Too much zone in the A-10 and we have never been a very good zone team, offense or defense.

So I like our prognosis better for the C7plus
Are you saying that they are not allowed to play zone in the C7?
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Are you saying that they are not allowed to play zone in the C7?
Where did I or anyone say that

Comparing the two leagues the A-10 plays a lot of zone and while the C7 can and do play zone its not as much as A-10. Hope that helps.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:50 AM
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My apologies if this has already been posted.

Joe Lunardi on Dayton and C7(part of this sounds bad, part of this sounds maybe good):

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...holic-7/nWHYQ/

Lunardi also addressed the breakaway schools of the Big East and what direction they might take. He said the so-called Catholic 7 want no more than a 10-team league, although TV might have the final say and opt for 12.

He said Xavier and Butler are already committed to the new league, which he predicted would keep the Big East name.

Asked about Dayton’s chances, he said: “To be really candid, as someone who has a soft spot for Dayton for a lot of reasons, I think what hurts Dayton is not having won enough. They have everything else in place — good Lord, the infrastructure, the fan base, the love of the game, the way it supports every basketball event at every level. But these guys are going to look at projected units (NCAA tourney money). And Dayton falls short compared to others on the board.

“While you might say from a basketball standpoint it makes perfect sense being a travel partner with Xavier and having local rivals, I’m not sure I share that optimism.”
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:03 PM
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If Lunardi is on the mark,...

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
My apologies if this has already been posted.

Joe Lunardi on Dayton and C7(part of this sounds bad, part of this sounds maybe good):

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...holic-7/nWHYQ/

Lunardi also addressed the breakaway schools of the Big East and what direction they might take. He said the so-called Catholic 7 want no more than a 10-team league, although TV might have the final say and opt for 12.

He said Xavier and Butler are already committed to the new league, which he predicted would keep the Big East name.

Asked about Dayton’s chances, he said: “To be really candid, as someone who has a soft spot for Dayton for a lot of reasons, I think what hurts Dayton is not having won enough. They have everything else in place — good Lord, the infrastructure, the fan base, the love of the game, the way it supports every basketball event at every level. But these guys are going to look at projected units (NCAA tourney money). And Dayton falls short compared to others on the board.

“While you might say from a basketball standpoint it makes perfect sense being a travel partner with Xavier and having local rivals, I’m not sure I share that optimism.”
.....i.e., that UD won't make the C7 league because of "not having won enough".....and the impact on "projectced NCAA units"....the extended period of under achievement between OP and AM is the fundamental reason.
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  #374  
Old 02-07-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
.....i.e., that UD won't make the C7 league because of "not having won enough".....and the impact on "projectced NCAA units"....the extended period of under achievement between OP and AM is the fundamental reason.
I agree with your post.

But, he says UD is short on NCAA units compared to others on the board.

Who else is on the board besides UD and has more NCAA units?

Butler? yes
Xavier? yes
Creighton? yes

St. Louis? no
VCU? no


# of trips to NCAA tournament since 2000(OP's first trip with UD to NCAA tournament):

Butler-8
Xavier-11
Creighton-7

Dayton-4
St. Louis-2
VCU-4(probably 5 if you include this year)



So, why should the C7 pick SLU or VCU over Dayton other than St. Louis and Richmond being bigger or different markets? And DC is not that far from Richmond. They haven't outperformed Dayton in any other measure since 2000. VCU will probably have 5 NCAA appearances compared to UD's 4, unless UD finishes really strong.


So, if the C7 are looking at NCAA appearances, then they should take Butler, Xavier, Creighton, VCU, and Dayton if they pick 5 teams and go to 12.


That's a perfect 6 and 6 east and west split.

Georgetown/Villanova/St. John's/Providence/Seton Hall/VCU

Butler/Xavier/Creighton/Dayton/DePaul/Marquette

Last edited by ud2; 02-07-2013 at 12:30 PM..
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  #375  
Old 02-07-2013, 12:29 PM
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to be fair, units are based on each round that a team reaches. so, vcu has earned far more units than ud.
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  #376  
Old 02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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Not to mention the strength of the leagues the units were achieved by some of these schools (Butler, VCU).
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
My apologies if this has already been posted.

Joe Lunardi on Dayton and C7(part of this sounds bad, part of this sounds maybe good):

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...holic-7/nWHYQ/

Lunardi also addressed the breakaway schools of the Big East and what direction they might take. He said the so-called Catholic 7 want no more than a 10-team league, although TV might have the final say and opt for 12.

He said Xavier and Butler are already committed to the new league, which he predicted would keep the Big East name.

Asked about Dayton’s chances, he said: “To be really candid, as someone who has a soft spot for Dayton for a lot of reasons, I think what hurts Dayton is not having won enough. They have everything else in place — good Lord, the infrastructure, the fan base, the love of the game, the way it supports every basketball event at every level. But these guys are going to look at projected units (NCAA tourney money). And Dayton falls short compared to others on the board.

“While you might say from a basketball standpoint it makes perfect sense being a travel partner with Xavier and having local rivals, I’m not sure I share that optimism.”

Yea, I've always known that Joe had "soft spot" in his heart for our Flyers----don't make me puke! Not sure if it's the Curren connection, his own petty jealousy or something else---but I've never read any comment by this guy (associated with UD directly or indirectly) that led me to believe he "had such a spot" for UD.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan View Post
Yea, I've always known that Joe had "soft spot" in his heart for our Flyers----don't make me puke! Not sure if it's the Curren connection, his own petty jealousy or something else---but I've never read any comment by this guy (associated with UD directly or indirectly) that led me to believe he "had such a spot" for UD.
His sister and brother in law both graduated from UD and still live in the Dayton area (Kettering IIRC). Joe has spoken at the Agonis club when he's in town for SJU games on multiple occasions. His soft spot for UD is legit. The Curren connection probably strengthened those ties, but I'll assume his "soft spot" for UD goes back to the late 60s/early 70s when his older sister was at school here.
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  #379  
Old 02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
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The existing units are irrelevant as they aren't going with the teams. They matter from the standpoint of past results being indicative of future success.

Would 2 more NCAA under Gregory change things? Would OP recruiting after 1999 have mattered? Maybe. Maybe not. Personally I don't think so, unless you had a Butler like period.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
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Credible story...

Given UD's several impressive pluses,...what credible story could Dan and Tim come up with to persuade the C7 that things are going to change...i.e., that over the next decade lack of NCAA units will not be an issue when it comes to Dayton basketball?
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Given UD's several impressive pluses,...what credible story could Dan and Tim come up with to persuade the C7 that things are going to change...i.e., that over the next decade lack of NCAA units will not be an issue when it comes to Dayton basketball?
Well, obviously nothing would help more than making the tournament this year either by earning an at-large bid or by winning the A10 tournament. But, they should try to at least make the NIT, that might also help some.

I don't know, maybe bring up the year that CW got hurt which might have kept them out of the tournament?

I'm not sure what else to say, it appears that they may not have done well enough to earn a spot in the new conference. Per Lunardi, the whole thing seems to hinge on the C7 believing that AM/and whoever comes after AM can deliver better results in the future.

Last edited by ud2; 02-07-2013 at 02:16 PM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:19 PM
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It's in their hands...

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Well, obviously nothing would help more than making the tournament this year either by earning an at-large bid or by winning the A10 tournament. But, they should try to at least make the NIT, that might also help some.
Dayton could finish at 11-5 in the A10.....or at 3-13. There is not a team to be played that can be chalked up as a "sure loss",.....or as a "sure win". That's the way the Flyers have been playing. The SLU loss was the only disaster.

Apparently, it's not always easy for a coach to learn the best combination of guys to have on the floor at various times under varying conditions. Doing so may be a critical factor setting the really successful coaches apart.

I recall a few years ago a top-tier team's leading scorer and obviously best player by a mile tore an ACL mid-way through the season. Disaster! Not so, the fact is that the team played considerably better from that point on.

But, how can a coach not use his very best, most talented player?
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  #383  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:32 PM
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so all the talk about getting in the C7 League revolves around men's hoop performance. For the last 10+ years we've heard that UD was improving their non-revenue teams and facilities. Can't argue about the teams improving.....both soccer teams, volleyball, ladies hoops, baseball.......the facilities these teams occupy are outstanding.......SO THIS ALL MEANS NOTHING??? when a league is looking for members. It's all about how many men's NCAA tourney hoop units a school can bring to the table? Sad!
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  #384  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:34 PM
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another thought

if we do not get in the C7 do we need to drop football (which seems to mean nothing when getting into a good hoop league) and pour those $$$$$ into the other sports?
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:34 PM
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Can hurt...

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
so all the talk about getting in the C7 League revolves around men's hoop performance. For the last 10+ years we've heard that UD was improving their non-revenue teams and facilities. Can't argue about the teams improving.....both soccer teams, volleyball, ladies hoops, baseball.......the facilities these teams occupy are outstanding.......SO THIS ALL MEANS NOTHING??? when a league is looking for members. It's all about how many men's NCAA tourney hoop units a school can bring to the table? Sad!
Poor olympic sports and facilities can hurt a program in circumstances like this....but good/great cannot help much, if at all.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:45 PM
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Dan Curran

I happen to think that UD has an exceptional president...not just very good, exceptional.

I've got to believe that Dan Curran is very well connected to C7 people that matter. We have no appreciation for that.

When the ACC was in the process of choosing a team to replace UM it was between UConn and UL. Everything written at the time pointed to UConn having a slight edge because of academics and research. Lousiville got the nod.

Afterwards CT local media started digging into the decision-making process, concluding that UConn never had a chance...wasn't close. The reason was the behind the scenes effectiveness of UL's AD, Tom Jurich...who apparently presented such a completely persuasive case for UL that the ACC's decision was easy and a slam dunk in favor of UL.

I bring that up because Jurich's effrorts were not known until after the decision was made,...and only then when a few media types did a bit of research.

Back to Dr. Dan. If Dan Curran wants to be in the C7 conference I cannot believe that he's sitting around waiting to find out what the C7 decides. Nothing,....but nothing,...in Curran's background at UD is consistent with such a passive approach.

In my opinion, if there is anything possible to sell UD to the C7 group, Curran is doing it.
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  #387  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:13 PM
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i have to say i am past tired of all of this. at this point i think i just want to stop hearing about it. I hate all of this...not because i don't like change, but because i don't like what has changed and where it is taking everything. And what happens if/when the NCAA loses its suit vs. Ed O'Bannon et al. what happens to basketball, the NCAA tournament and the NCAA itself when the football schools (the haves) decide to simply go it on their own? All of this because supposed educators are acting like a bunch of snake oil salesmen in the wild west. At this point I don't care where UD ends up as long as we can remain on the relative high ground. That is how I will end up judging Dan Curran.

ugh.
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  #388  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:17 PM
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Obviously NCAA tournament success isn't the selling point. What UD means to TV verse other schools I don't know, but I'll assume Tim & Dan (as well as all the commissioners in the C7 know this info) and is either a selling point or something to gloss over if it doesn't favor UD significantly over a VCU, St Louis, Creighton, etc...

So what to sell, obviously its the fan base and the facilities. There is a reason Fordham choose UD to partner up with Saint John's on a game at the Garden a few years back. They knew UD would help fill the garden. UD needs to sell this, sell that their fans will turn out to the Garden for a conference tournament (go as far as garunteeing an amount of tickets sold for the first handful of seasons). They need to sell that if the Garden or any "ideal" location should fail to support the conference tournament, UD can garuntee a full house in Dayton.

Additionally they need to sell the facilities, the continued committment to upgrading the facilities. Sure, UD's failure to secure regular apperances in the NCAA is dissapointing, but the proof that they are on the right track administratively is the success that they've seen across the board; that all is needed is the right coach (and that they believe they have the right coach in place) to make it happen.

finally, they need to sell a clear blueprint on what they plan to do with any additional resources gained in this new conferences. Better recruiting budgets, more money for coaches (and assistants), continued development of the facilities. Sell that they have a clear plan, that they are not looking to ride coat tails but are striving to be the best they can be across the board.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:21 PM
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Sure hope Dr. Dan is selling UD hard behind the scenes. We have no idea what the C7 is looking for, or how much weight they are giving to various factors.

To hear Lunardi it's all about NCAA appearences. I don't think that's "all" it is. But you never know. Someone pointed out on one of the other boards that if the league was being formed ten years ago Butler and VCU would never even have been in the discussion.

I think and hope the presidents will take a long-term view. If they do, it'll be good for UD.

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:57 PM
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Networks role?

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Sure hope Dr. Dan is selling UD hard behind the scenes. We have no idea what the C7 is looking for, or how much weight they are giving to various factors.

To hear Lunardi it's all about NCAA appearences. I don't think that's "all" it is. But you never know. Someone pointed out on one of the other boards that if the league was being formed ten years ago Butler and VCU would never even have been in the discussion.

I think and hope the presidents will take a long-term view. If they do, it'll be good for UD.
As the C7 discuss, or have already discussed, TV deals, they must have discussed both the number of teams to be added and schools that are being considered. It seems almost inconceivable that the C7 would have started negotiations by telling the networks who the teams to be invited are.

Now, the networks do not want to be thought of as selecting schools for the C7 or any other conference. But, it's only sensible that the C7 would gauge the networks reaction to the names of the schools being considered.

So, while NCAA units my be very high on the list of the C7, what is it that most impresses the networks? It's reasonable to suppose that the networks want as many people watching games as possible. That favors large markets. True, the "percentage" of viewers in the Dayton market may be high; but the market itself is small. So, in my opinion, UD is at a disadvantage in that area.

Also, the networks must like a good environment for the TV viewers. In that area, UD can't be beat.....great environment and a packed house guaranteed for every game. Not all schools can match that. How important? I don't know.

Olympic sports? UD's focus sports are top-tier. Important at all to networks? Don't know...not a clue.

But, UD administrators know all these things. Therefore, they are in a position to make a formal case for the value of UD to a new conference.

Is Tim W. the man to be in the lead of such a proactive initiative? I'm not at all confident that he is. TK? Yes. But, he's gone. In my opinion, it's got to be Dan Curran...perhaps with some outside professional advisors.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:11 PM
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Rivalries

The one factor that is disconcerting with these potential changes to me is the possibility that UD is left with few "rivalry" games.

While I was a student and we were a part of the "Great Independents", the atmosphere at games vs. Notre Dame, DePaul, and Marquette was fantastic.

Now, the A-10 matchups with Xavier, SLU, and now Butler are great matchups.

Personally, I have no great affinity to any of the "Catholic 7" institutions.

My only concern is the "rivalry" type games that we will be left with if not included in the new alignment.

It is disappointing that despite UD being considered one of the top 10 Catholic Universities in America, the improvements in the overall athletic department, and its basketball atmosphere continuing to be among the nation's best, that we may be left behind because of not enough NCAA Sweet 16s (although it's not like DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall have much to tout either).

So just hoping whatever materializes, we can put together enough "big games."
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM
Bat'71 Bat'71 is offline
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As has been mentioned innumerable times, no one knows what's going to transpire, no one. An interesting point made by Lunardi is that "the C7 want no more than a 10 team league, although TV may have the final say and opt for 12." While UD may or may not be the most intriguing program based on recent Post Season success, IMHO we shouldn't be a "hard sell" for any league. The pre-season Tourney promoters love us because our fans travel well and we field competitive teams, opponents like coming to the Arena now because we are no longer considered a "bad loss" and they get to perform in front of a "Big Time" crowd and broadcasters love to air games from the Arena because the atmosphere is electric and that televises well (when the Arena is rockin' there is no better place for a college BB game...you can feel it.) While I may be just a tad biased, UD should be considered a good "get" for any Conference and I believe the broadcast networks appreciate that.

*While local market demographic models may rule in FB, in BB it's a little more esoteric. The local cable sports network here in NYC (SNY) probably shows more UofL BB games than St. John's, Seton Hall or Rutgers games. Much of a BB game's televised appeal depends upon reputation, rivalries and crowd dynamics (none of the local Universities control a large section of the college BB fan base.) Whether UD is good, bad or indifferent, the Arena is always packed and the crowd is engaged and it broadcasts well (not too many programs can boast that type of support.)

Last edited by Bat'71; 02-07-2013 at 05:33 PM..
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  #393  
Old 02-07-2013, 05:34 PM
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We keep referring to the C7...

....what the C7 wants, etc.

In fact, I think it's the C3, arguably the C3.5. I cannot believe that the likes of Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul have much influence. GU, VU and MU are calling the shots....probably with SJU being listened to because of the NY market.

Does anyone think PC, SHU or DU would be in the discussion were it not for the fact that they are already part of the seven? Dayton would be infinitely better for the conference than the first three if we were starting with a clean sheet of paper.

I think geographic balance is an important factor for MU and DU. If the C7 adds just three teams, they have to be from the mid-west to provide balance.
If correct, XU and BU lead the list. I've got to believe that SLU has a significant edge over UD for a third spot.

Going to 12 would seem to help us. But, I think if that happens the at least one of the two additions will be a sleeper like Richmond.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:54 PM
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A poster on the Marquette board has consistently said UD is a candidate, and that St. John's is pushing for us. How he got that information or why St. John's would stick up for us I do not know. Just thought I'd throw it out here.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Sure hope Dr. Dan is selling UD hard behind the scenes. We have no idea what the C7 is looking for, or how much weight they are giving to various factors.

To hear Lunardi it's all about NCAA appearences. I don't think that's "all" it is. But you never know. Someone pointed out on one of the other boards that if the league was being formed ten years ago Butler and VCU would never even have been in the discussion.

I think and hope the presidents will take a long-term view. If they do, it'll be good for UD.
I think Lunardi like many people in the media are just speculating. I have been told that it is up to the Presidents and it is all about TV exposure.

BTW. What is the crap about Lunardi having a soft spot for Dayton? Since when???
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
His sister and brother in law both graduated from UD and still live in the Dayton area (Kettering IIRC). Joe has spoken at the Agonis club when he's in town for SJU games on multiple occasions. His soft spot for UD is legit. The Curren connection probably strengthened those ties, but I'll assume his "soft spot" for UD goes back to the late 60s/early 70s when his older sister was at school here.
Quoted above since Ive seen this so many times on here. joes "soft spot" for UD is real, I've mentioned this several times, but some still think he has an agenda against UD
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  #397  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:45 PM
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Let's see if we can prod an update out of Dirty Sanchez. Any updates Dirty on what inside sources at UD are saying?
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  #398  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez View Post
I know for a fact it's a done deal and we are invited and headed to the new conference. TV wouldn't negotiate without knowing who the additional teams & markets are.

Done deal.
Originally Posted by UDMARK View Post
Let's see if we can prod an update out of Dirty Sanchez. Any updates Dirty on what inside sources at UD are saying?
We don't need an update. He has already said it's a done deal and we are in.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:57 AM
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Another Andy Katz update this morning on the C7. No new information, everything is still up in the air. Butler and Xavier are still the consensus favorites for inclusion in the new conference. Richmond is still being talked about as a potential addition to the new conference.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...z-3-point-shot


1. The departing Big East 7 are still negotiating their exit from the Big East and are far from finalizing a date to withdraw (although the exit is likely for the fall of 2014). The league still needs to lock in on a television partner (Fox, according to sources, the leader in the clubhouse) and a commissioner. But a number of sources have made valid points for additional schools the Big East 7 will go after, with the consensus being Butler and Xavier to get to nine. The 10th spot has interesting candidates, and while I have heard strong Richmond arguments for that spot, the Spiders may end up being more of an 11th or 12th member if the league decides to go that far. There is a definitely a push in one key corner of the seven to add Creighton because of the Bluejays passion for hoops, their facilities and following. I continue to hear conflicting opinions about whether or not distance matters in this new league. What isn't negotiable is the 7 want/need the schools to be all in for basketball. If that's the case then considering Gonzaga isn't out. This league has to be smart about its moves, and if Creighton is in the mix it would be a wise choice.

Last edited by ud2; 02-08-2013 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:31 AM
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Sheesh.......Dayton doesn't even get a mention anymore.
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