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03-07-2013, 02:40 PM
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From the Sun-Times article:
Indications are the announcement will not immediately include the additions of Butler and Xavier in the new league, though both are planning to join.
So we may not even get an official x or Butler invite today? Seems remote that we'll hear anything about UD or SLU either then.
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03-07-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
The 18-16 game schedule issues make sense. At this point I doubt its easy to replace two Big East caliber games on your schedule for next season.
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The exit fee (none) for Creighton and scheduling seem most likely...consideration for A10 extremely unlikely...Rupert Murdoch's News Corp owns Fox and if any of the C7 suggested his they would've quickly said next question. That notion in this type of business transaction is absurd. With a 9-10 team league and round robin format is the league brass have their thinking caps on an extra 2 buy games might be damaging to RPI...allowing a year for both ramped up exit fee and certainly scheduling a 16 game 2 division conference makes a lot of sense to me. Even with an additional 12 months to schedule it might be tough for some of the C7 who grew fond of only playing home ooc games.
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03-07-2013, 02:56 PM
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http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...r-new-big-east
"1. At least one coach in the new Big East, filled with the Catholic 7 schools and likely Butler and Xavier, has been told to anticipate a 16-game schedule next season, according to one source with knowledge of the situation. That would force the seven Big East schools -- Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette -- to get two more non-conference games after playing 18 in the Big East this season. Of course, if Creighton is chosen as the 10th member for next season instead of in 2014, the league can pull off a true round-robin, 18-game league schedule, much like the Big 12. That's what the league should do to have a major splash in Year 1. The league's new television partner, expected to be Fox, would probably like to have two more games per team to show. "
i'm not sure how scheduling works...but this could mean a couple of things right?
1. creighton isn't joining this year or 2. they're going to 12 from the get go?
that right?
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03-07-2013, 03:10 PM
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For all the talk of buy out money, has anyone heard anthing about future game considerations? When the GMW broke up and reformed as Conf USA without us, UD picked up several years of games with teams from the old GMW. I'm wondering if there is any clause that requires teams that jump to play future non-conference games.
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03-07-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic
For all the talk of buy out money, has anyone heard anthing about future game considerations? When the GMW broke up and reformed as Conf USA without us, UD picked up several years of games with teams from the old GMW. I'm wondering if there is any clause that requires teams that jump to play future non-conference games.
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I would doubt it. UD got the consideration because basically there were kicked out of the league (the other 7 members of the Great Midwest) were part of CUSA.
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03-07-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...r-new-big-east
"1. At least one coach in the new Big East, filled with the Catholic 7 schools and likely Butler and Xavier, has been told to anticipate a 16-game schedule next season, according to one source with knowledge of the situation. That would force the seven Big East schools -- Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette -- to get two more non-conference games after playing 18 in the Big East this season. Of course, if Creighton is chosen as the 10th member for next season instead of in 2014, the league can pull off a true round-robin, 18-game league schedule, much like the Big 12. That's what the league should do to have a major splash in Year 1. The league's new television partner, expected to be Fox, would probably like to have two more games per team to show. "
i'm not sure how scheduling works...but this could mean a couple of things right?
1. creighton isn't joining this year or 2. they're going to 12 from the get go?
that right?
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9 team league = 16 conference games
12 team -2 div = 16 conference games
10 team = 18 conference games
current Big East plays - 18 conference games
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03-07-2013, 03:54 PM
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It also says they don't plan to announce X and BU tomorrow and that Creighton might be in for the following year. Who knows what has been decided, but not announcing the two or three additional schools immediately doesn't surprise me. With the notice periods my guess is the announce all expansion teams at one time, even if staggered a year. When they make an official announcement and it stops at 10, I would presume that's all the farthe it is going.
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03-07-2013, 04:07 PM
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Loe and Jett are Juniors. I know they lose Mitchell, possibley Ellis and Evans
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03-07-2013, 04:26 PM
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I'm pretty sure Cody Ellis and his blue hair graduate this season, as well as Mitchell. Not sure about anyone else.
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03-07-2013, 04:33 PM
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SLU will be good again next year. Following that it is questionable, especially if they hire Crews.
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03-07-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
SLU will be good again next year. Following that it is questionable, especially if they hire Crews.
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If they lose Mitchell, Evans and Ellis they won't be nearly as strong next year.
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03-07-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111
If they lose Mitchell, Evans and Ellis they won't be nearly as strong next year.
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Evans is a junior. They lose Mitchell (that will hurt) but they won't miss 0-15 Ellis all that much.
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03-07-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Evans is a junior. They lose Mitchell (that will hurt) but they won't miss 0-15 Ellis all that much.
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X will.
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03-07-2013, 05:58 PM
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Please let this be over.
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03-07-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7
Is it as simple as City (market) Size?
2011 Rank
43 Omaha Nebraska 415,068
177 Dayton Ohio 142,148
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I heard commentators say Creighton gets 17000 fannies a game at home. That would present as exciting games on the telly, for games against Gtown, nova, and company
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03-07-2013, 06:09 PM
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Not sure that this has any new information, but it is from today and seems to say UD and SLU are likely in the future. If alreaady posted, a thousand pardons.
http://www.nj.com/college-basketball...on_july_1.html
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03-07-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7
Is it as simple as City (market) Size?
2011 Rank
43 Omaha Nebraska 415,068
177 Dayton Ohio 142,148
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I think you're looking at the wrong numbers. Dayton has suburbs. The TV markets are not so far apart as that. In fact, Dayton's TV market is bigger...
64. Dayton
76. Omaha
http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets
Friendship at the highest levels is probably the biggest determinant as far as I can tell, but also Creighton's fan base does a great job of packing the house.
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03-07-2013, 11:52 PM
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looks like no news until next week....
@SIPeteThamel
Big East presidents to have Conf Call Tuesday. The plan: Approve new ESPN contract and (finally) finalize Catholic 7 divorce.
@SIPeteThamel
If things go according to plan (and they haven't at all lately), there's an announcment Tuesday. That's Day 1 of the Big East Touranemnt.
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03-08-2013, 12:35 AM
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This Holy Land of Hoops thread was posted yesterday, but wanted to update with comments from a poster (BostonFriar) who was reported to have very good sources and typically beats the media to the punch.
Comment came in from a Richmond poster (BostonSpider) saying that the C7 presidents did not support Dayton, that the final two spots are still up for grabs. Read BostonFriar's flat denial of that:
Re: Hearing done deal
by bostonfriar » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:19 pm Bostonspider wrote:I have still been reading rumblings that the schools and Fox cannot agree on the final two. According to one source, not one school has been advocating Dayton, leading me to believe FOX must like their numbers. Therefore the BE will go ahead and start with the 9/10 schools.
The 7 presidents do agree on Dayton.
It will be 10 in 2013 and 12 in 2014 but the schools are decided.
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Hope he's right.
http://holylandofhoops.com/viewtopic...9e468&start=30
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03-08-2013, 02:59 AM
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How can:
1) "The seven presidents do agree on Dayton", and
2) "There not be one school advocating Dayton".
The hour is late, but am I the only one who finds this inconsistent?
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03-08-2013, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by UD7578
How can:
1) "The seven presidents do agree on Dayton", and
2) "There not be one school advocating Dayton".
The hour is late, but am I the only one who finds this inconsistent?
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Boston Friar was quoting Boston Spider. Two different posts.
This Boston Friar guy appears to be credible and seems to have the respect of other posters over there
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03-08-2013, 07:02 AM
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Most speculation includes UD in a 12 team conference. Parsing language I would say the odds are 75/25 or so a 12 team conference includes UD now that it looks more certain ND lands in the ACC on a permanent basis in 13, but certainly no later than 14.
Both of those posts could have elements of truth. UD is in with SLU at 12. There was/is a lot of discussions between presidents on 10 or 12 with none
of the 11/12 schools highly advocated ao they would like to stay at 10. But Fox insists on 12 and they want the money. Ergo UD and SLU in the second year.
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03-08-2013, 07:48 AM
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Doug, you're right. Fox is calling the shots (he who has the money calls the shots) and my guess is they want 12 teams for scheduling purposes. UD and SLU will make numbers 11 and 12.
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03-08-2013, 09:11 AM
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It does seem that most of the more recent articles/posts/tweets are mentioning UD and not Richmond.
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03-08-2013, 09:12 AM
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a richmond source saying that no one is advocating for ud? possible, i suppose. or, it could be a bit of a self defense mechanism affecting how information is construed. if i were a richmond fan, i'd rather think that fox (and big business) determined the conference members rather than the presidents. it still stings, but it doesn't hurt as bad. don't get me wrong, though. i have no source whispering in my ear (for what it's worth...a lot of below the radar people have sources...i actually had a friend who received a late night call from a major university trustee about a coach who wanted to change a decision less than 24 hours after announcing he was leaving...point is that some sources may lack credibility but may be correct...read: we'll have to let it play out). in the end, the only thing we can do is apply the smell test...duck test...whatever...to the rumors.
as to scheduling rumors, i do find them to be compelling. teams schedule their games well in advance. gonzaga-georgetown isn't going to pop-up just a few months before the season. teams already know about their big out of conference games next year. if teams have to schedule a couple of additional games, it would likely be against teams that could be a potential rpi/sos detriment. with that in mind, i am curious about the c7 going from an 18 game conference schedule to a 16 game schedule (if they started with a 9 team or 12 team conference). who would be the addtional 14 opponents? it seems to make more sense to replace an 18 game schedule with an 18 game schedule. plus, in the event of 12 teams, who among the c7 gets pushed into the west division with the newbies? it's possible that marquette's concerned about being in a division with slu, ud, butler, x, and creighton. i can't imagine that their fans would be excited about only getting 3 of the c7 teams at home. that could lead to leaks from the marquette camp that are critical of teams and are motivated by conference allignment preferences/concerns.
with all this in mind, i think that it makes more sense to go with 10 teams the first year. it's easier on the schedule. it doesn't force teams to scramble to find 2 new opponents (and, again, replacing a team like cincinnati with someone like wright state). seems to make sense.
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03-08-2013, 09:20 AM
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The only place I've seen it mentioned that there is a tear b/w schools on Dayton, is coming from XU95 on the A10 board, who is claiming insider sources. True or not true, I don't know, but I believe that to be the source of bostonspider's "no one is advocating for Dayton aside from Fox" thought.
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03-08-2013, 09:23 AM
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They could go with 12 teams and no divisions. Then they could play 18 games and set up the home-and-homes however they wanted to. The Big Ten, PAC 12, and ACC have 12 teams with no divisions. There are probably others. Few conferences have divisions for basketball.
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03-08-2013, 09:50 AM
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Yup, divisions to cut costs in the non-revenue area, but not for basketball.
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03-08-2013, 10:06 AM
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And football to set up championship games. Divisions in basketball largely don't exist except at the low major level.
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03-08-2013, 10:32 AM
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Pretend you are a C7 president or AD,...
Fan sentiment on various message boards probably is highly misleading.
Let's assume that the presidents and ADs of the C7 gang are intelligent, informed, well intentioned people.
Put yourself in their shoes...what would matter to you, what would you want?
Here's what I think:
In no special order: The C7 leaders want a very good conference that can compete among the best BB conferences.....they want a very good TV deal, meaning that in most TV-related matters they will defer to Fox.....they want schools that fit well institutionally,....they want schools with very good across the board athletics programs.....they want a conference footprint that makes sense geographically so as to minimize travel impact.
Perhaps there are a few other things; but minor compared to these.
Why then would any president or AD not want Dayton? We fall a bit short in BB performance. But, clearly, that's fixable. In every other area listed above UD excels.
Now if Fox feels strongly that there are better candidates that also satisfy these criteria, then I think the C7 leaders will just go along with Fox. But, if Fox supports a school that falls short of meeting the criteria to a significant degree, I can't see the C7 leaders just caving...when there are schools like UD that essentially satisfy them all.
So while UD may have no strong advocates among the C7 leaders...I can't believe that there are leaders that oppose us. For what sensible reason?
Bottom line: I think UD is better than "OK" with the C7 presidents and ADs, that they will perfectly happy to have us,....pending approval by Fox.
Now if Fox Ohio enters the picture in a way favorable to UD, as a Prider pointed out,....that's great for us and may even carry the day. Otherwise, since UD satisfies so many criteria of likely importance to the C7 leaders, why would we face any opposition?....especially if Fox likes us. Do they? I don't have any idea.
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03-08-2013, 10:57 AM
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divisions help with scheduling and travel costs. it keeps conference schedules balanced as well. there's no benefit to going over 10 teams if you want to stick with an 18 game conference schedule. there are currently 16 di conferences with more than 10 teams. 2 have 11 and play 20 game schedules. there are 3 conferences in a serious state of flux: the a10, big east and conference usa. of the remaining 11 conferences with more than 10 teams, 5 have divisions. separating conferences into divisions is a relatively recent change. it's only been over the last few years that conferences have added so many teams. the ncaa limits regular season games to 27 plus up to 4 in-season tournament games or 29 without any in-season tournament games. with an 18 game schedule, that leaves only 11 non-con games but provides some parity with balanced schedules. i've read somewhere about the idea of splitting into divisions as well. i get that the idea was a bit made-for-tv when the ncaa allowed for football championship games where conferences have at least 12 teams. but, it serves a purpose in basketball as well. my guess is that some conferences have done it for football and not basketball because the basketball rivalries/dominant programs were not the same for basketball and football. that would not be a problem for the new big east.
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03-08-2013, 11:22 AM
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To me, the only plausible and somewhat strong reason to pick Richmond over Dayton, and thus the one that scares me, is that Richmond provides a new, distinctly additional TV market, and perhaps the powers-that-be feel Ohio is adequately covered with just one Ohio school.
The east coast preference by Georgetown, et al, may be a tie-breaker, but I can't see it being the real driver. If it is Richmond over Dayton, I gotta think it came down to the fact that Richmond can offer a "new" market in a way that Dayton cannot.
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03-08-2013, 11:29 AM
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I would welcome a division setup with Xavier, Butler, St. Louis, Creighton, and DePaul. The old division setup for the A-10 was perfect in terms of schedule balance (16 games) and conference brackets. It also increases the chances of being able to hang a banner, since you're only competing against 6 teams for your division title.
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03-08-2013, 11:44 AM
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Well, it would certainly stack up easier geographically with divisions that included Richmond instead of UD, because if you look at FlyingArrow's suggestion just above, Marquette is not included, so would they get lumped in with the Eastern schools? Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova, St. John's, and Marquette? That seems odd.
Sub in Richmond for Marquette and you have the 6 East and then Marquette for Dayton and you have 6 West. Then you have the problem of Marquette and DePaul not being in the same side as the 5 original BE members, and I think you would just say eff it, let's do a single 12 team conference instead of East/West.
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03-08-2013, 11:45 AM
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Makes me glad that UD has had Butler, Xavier, SLU, Creighton, and Seton Hall on the men's basketball schedule in recent years. And that we have played Marquette (among other strong programs) in holiday tournaments. Makes me appreciate that the AD at UD has been laying the tracks for this for years - even down to VERY purposeful scheduling beyond just RPI building. Because of all of this, UD is much more of a known and measureable quantity than is Richmond.
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03-08-2013, 11:46 AM
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i meant to say that 2 6-team divisions has a 16 game schedule, which allows for 2 more out of conference games.
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03-08-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dannardo
Makes me glad that UD has had Butler, Xavier, SLU, Creighton, and Seton Hall on the men's basketball schedule in recent years. And that we have played Marquette (among other strong programs) in holiday tournaments. Makes me appreciate that the AD at UD has been laying the tracks for this for years - even down to VERY purposeful scheduling beyond just RPI building. Because of all of this, UD is much more of a known and measureable quantity than is Richmond.
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when we had a series with villanova a few years ago it was mentioned that we were trying to build the relationship we're looking for now. i wish we had done the same thing with st johns or georgetown.
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03-08-2013, 12:33 PM
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03-08-2013, 12:50 PM
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03-08-2013, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
Well, it would certainly stack up easier geographically with divisions that included Richmond instead of UD, because if you look at FlyingArrow's suggestion just above, Marquette is not included, so would they get lumped in with the Eastern schools? Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova, St. John's, and Marquette? That seems odd.
Sub in Richmond for Marquette and you have the 6 East and then Marquette for Dayton and you have 6 West. Then you have the problem of Marquette and DePaul not being in the same side as the 5 original BE members, and I think you would just say eff it, let's do a single 12 team conference instead of East/West.
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I think Marquette wants to be lumped with the East schools so they can play Villanova/Georgetown home/home every year. But it's more likely we have no divisions anyway.
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03-08-2013, 12:52 PM
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03-08-2013, 12:54 PM
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Now that it's official, the Catholic 7 have two names. "Catholic 7" and "Big East". Meanwhile, the Big East has no name.
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03-08-2013, 12:58 PM
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you don't announce your marriage plans at the same time that you announce your divorce. you want to celebrate the impending nuptials. my guess is that the big east will make the announcement with their new logo, broadcast partner and appropriate fanfare. it would just be weird to do that with their ex-spouse standing with them.
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03-08-2013, 12:59 PM
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This story again lists a 12 school conference as likely with UD in it. These guys know what is going on and Fox has already made it known to the schools what type of conference they want. You don't pony up tens of millions of dollars without knowing exactly what you're getting.
Right now they are just waiting to cross a few T's and I's to make the full announcement.
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03-08-2013, 01:03 PM
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I'd suspect early next week, while both the A10 & Big East are all gathered in NYC would provide perfect timing for a join announcement. I guess the question for UD fans, does that announcement include 9 teams, 10 teams, 12 teams and if they announce 12, will that include UD. I believe the Big East tournament usually starts on wednesday, I assume the A-10 starts either wednesday or thursday, so seemingly tuesday would be the perfect time for all involved.
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03-08-2013, 01:10 PM
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more and more articles/press mentioning UD/ SLU. me likey. i certainly hope they announce their intentions whether thats 10 for next year and 2 for '14 or all at once.
either way at least we know the next step is to announce who's coming on board. they'll figure out commish and other details later i'd imagine. that and you know fox wants to announce they have the deal for their new network
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03-08-2013, 01:13 PM
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This points out something interesting that hasn't been discussed (unless I missed it). Both conferences will receive an automatic bid so the at-large bids will be reduced by one, from 37 to 36.
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03-08-2013, 01:21 PM
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Via twitter. Espn Brett McMurphy saying SLU and Dayton in 2014 when asked a question on twitter from Thomas Kilps. I hate how it is still likely or top candidates.
Thomas Kilps @tpkilpo
@McMurphyESPN no Dayton or SLU?
Details Reply Retweet Favorite More
14 mins Brett McMurphyVerified account @McMurphyESPN
@tpkilpo yes in 2014
Details
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03-08-2013, 01:25 PM
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These articles all say the same thing. X and Butler with Creighton in 13 and UD and SLU in 14. They really can't say definite to any of it right now because no official announcement has been made. But if you're a betting person, put your money on this scenario taking place. Just too much consistency in the story right now.
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03-08-2013, 01:34 PM
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Further down it mentions the expansion to 12 in 2014 with SLU and UD the leading candidates for those slots.
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03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
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The scheduling conflicts make the most sense for a 2 season seperation b/w X & Butler, and 2 more A10 schools. however, if they intention is to go to 12 in 14/15 after 1 season at 9 or 10 schools, I'd be shocked if it wasn't announced all at once. Heck, the Big East could even seem like the "good guys" in conference expansion and claim that they fazed in the A-10 portion so that the A-10 wasn't faced with lossing 6 teams all in 1 offseason. No matter if that holds any legit merit or not, it would enable them to put a step above all the conference that have only cared about getting the most money now and what's best for themselves.
the additional 1 autobid also had me thinking, unless there is a conference out there that is on the verge of collapsing due to the conference expansion everywhere that would offset the extra bid, I thought I read somewhere that the NCAA wanted to ensure that they always had a similar split b/w at large canidates and auto bids (why they went to 69 teams when the play in game first came to light, I believe when the WAC broke apart). I've long believed that the 4 game play in game would eventually expand to an 8 game play in scenerio, the last 4 in vs the last 4 out, so to speak and the then all of the 15 & 16 seeds playing each other to move on to the thursday/friday games. That would enable them to have 4 games in Dayton on a tuesday feeding into thursday, and 4 games west of the mississippi on a wednesday game feeding into friday or vice versa.
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03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
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another angle is that the prospective members have to be able to spend the amount of money required. by example, uc has been working hard at finding a conference that fits its football program. the problem is that they have had great results over the last decade. they've played in the orange bowl and been ranked in the top 10. but, despite those results, there's a serious question as to whether they have the financial resources to compete in the big 12 or acc. in our case, ud has the resources. that has to be comforting to the c7. it's certainly a piece of the puzzle.
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03-08-2013, 01:37 PM
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03-08-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111
These articles all say the same thing. X and Butler with Creighton in 13 and UD and SLU in 14. They really can't say definite to any of it right now because no official announcement has been made. But if you're a betting person, put your money on this scenario taking place. Just too much consistency in the story right now.
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Either this is a typo in the ESPN article or this has slipped past a lot of people so far...
Adding the new members -- Butler, Xavier and Creighton had officially withdrawn from their current leagues as of early Friday -- is among the immediate challenges for the new league.
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03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer Al
Either this is a typo in the ESPN article or this has slipped past a lot of people so far...
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If true, does the league let them compete in the A10 tourney?
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03-08-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Further down it mentions the expansion to 12 in 2014 with SLU and UD the leading candidates for those slots.
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They have updated the orignial article a couple times. I still wish it were more definitive ...
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03-08-2013, 02:17 PM
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So if Butler and X have withdrawn we are in the tournament now? And a school with only 3 wins gets in as well? Horrible idea by the heads at Butler and X
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03-08-2013, 02:18 PM
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yes, and they're going to finish out the spring schedule as well. I believe the article is missing a "not" after the "had". At some point (likely soon) they'll announce their intentions to withdraw from the league effective June 30th. The withdrawl won't happen immediatley.
The A-10 is allowing Temple & UNCC to participate in the A-10, they'd be foolish to not allow X & Butler.
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03-08-2013, 02:32 PM
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@SIPeteThamel
Perhaps the biggest remaining question for Catholic 7 is 9 or 10 teams next year. As of now, not decided. Creighton/Dayton on edge.
thamel trolling us? dayton potentially going in next year?
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03-08-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer Al
Either this is a typo in the ESPN article or this has slipped past a lot of people so far...
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@McMurphyESPN
To clarify: Butler, Creighton & Xavier have not withdrawn from league as of Friday morning
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03-08-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
yes, and they're going to finish out the spring schedule as well. I believe the article is missing a "not" after the "had". At some point (likely soon) they'll announce their intentions to withdraw from the league effective June 30th. The withdrawl won't happen immediatley.
The A-10 is allowing Temple & UNCC to participate in the A-10, they'd be foolish to not allow X & Butler.
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The article has been updated to state "had not" officially withdrawn. Do they proofread?
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03-08-2013, 02:43 PM
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All I know is, they better name the two teams to be added in '14-'15 at the same time they announce the first three teams. I assume they will, but they could simply say, "And two more teams will be added in '14-'15 to form a 12-team league." Or they could say nothing about '14-'15. Can you imagine another year of this??? I don't even drink, but I think I would have to start!!!
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03-08-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bigred
The article has been updated to state "had not" officially withdrawn. Do they proofread?
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ESPN and DDN use same editors. Ready...fire...aim!
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03-08-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bigred
The article has been updated to state "had not" officially withdrawn. Do they proofread?
Posted via Mobile Device
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Probably not, but it sounds like they read UDPride.
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03-08-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
All I know is, they better name the two teams to be added in '14-'15 at the same time they announce the first three teams. I assume they will, but they could simply say, "And two more teams will be added in '14-'15 to form a 12-team league." Or they could say nothing about '14-'15. Can you imagine another year of this??? I don't even drink, but I think I would have to start!!!
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Not that they care, but it would be an injustice to wait to announce the 11th/12th teams (assuming they know who they are). Archie's recruiting that class now. Showing his Big East membership card would get him in a few homes he otherwise might not get in.
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03-08-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
@McMurphyESPN
To clarify: Butler, Creighton & Xavier have not withdrawn from league as of Friday morning
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I felt that surely was the case. The sentence didnt even read right as it was written. Makes more sense with the word "not" in there.
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03-08-2013, 02:59 PM
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Best way to do it,....
Originally Posted by longtimefan
All I know is, they better name the two teams to be added in '14-'15 at the same time they announce the first three teams. I assume they will, but they could simply say, "And two more teams will be added in '14-'15 to form a 12-team league." Or they could say nothing about '14-'15. Can you imagine another year of this??? I don't even drink, but I think I would have to start!!!
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In my opinion, all five new teams should be named as follows: "BU, X, CU, SLU and UD have accepted invitations to join our new conference. X, BU and CU will join the conference and begin play in 2013/2014; and SLU abd UD will join for the 2014/2015 season".
Questions will be raised about that...and I'm sure there would sensible answers. Not rocket science.
On another matter....this topic has been beaten to death by the media....countless outlets, blogs, etc, over weeks, each with their own unimpeachable sources. In close to 100% of this reporting Dayton is mentioned as one of the five new teams.
Could all these sources be wrong? And, while the C7 leadership has no obligation to announce details before they are ready, would they sit idly by allowing the media to name the same wrong team(s), day after day, week after week? Would they? All they would have to say is something to the effect that "No decsions have been made re the teams to be invited to join the conference". Or, if some firm decisions have been made, but not all, "The final makeup of the conference has not yet been determined".
Would those C7 guys sit quietly and listen to erroneous media reports for weeks without making some effort to clarify and make it clear that such reports have no basis, considering the importance to the schools involved?
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03-08-2013, 03:09 PM
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If the full intention is to expand to 12 in 14/15 and they already know the teams, it would be foolish to wait any longer to announce those teams. As I said above, you can sell it to make your self look favorable, even if those are not your main intentions. UD potentially has 1 spot to fill for next season (depending on the status of Kav and any transfers), SLU may or may not have an opening, Creighton, if not part of the Big East next season, but in 14/15 may have openings as well. Do you really want them heading into recruiting telling recruits that they know they are going to join, just hasn't been announced? Of course not. SLU and Jim Crews potentially have a discision to make. Do both want each other moving forward? Would another school come calling for Crews at season's end? I'm sure both parties would like SLU's future affiliation to be spelled out crystal clear.
Next week is the perfect backdrop, all potential schools w/ the exception of Creighton are scheduled to be in NYC already (hopefully UD's basketball team is there as well). Announce all together, control the press conference, control the flow of information, control the story. To leave fully known intentions off the table is to invite suspicision and question marks. It allows a 3rd party a chance to spin the story to make you look bad.
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03-08-2013, 03:15 PM
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We will know for sure by July 1, 2013. I believe that's the date UD and SLU must officially give the A10 notice they are leaving if they want to pay a 1 million exit fee each instead of 2 million.
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03-08-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber
We will know for sure by July 1, 2013. I believe that's the date UD and SLU must officially give the A10 notice they are leaving if they want to pay a 1 million exit fee each instead of 2 million.
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What's left of my hair will be gray if this drags out until July 1!
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03-08-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
In my opinion, all five new teams should be named as follows: "BU, X, CU, SLU and UD have accepted invitations to join our new conference. X, BU and CU will join the conference and begin play in 2013/2014; and SLU abd UD will join for the 2014/2015 season".
Questions will be raised about that...and I'm sure there would sensible answers. Not rocket science.
On another matter....this topic has been beaten to death by the media....countless outlets, blogs, etc, over weeks, each with their own unimpeachable sources. In close to 100% of this reporting Dayton is mentioned as one of the five new teams.
Could all these sources be wrong? And, while the C7 leadership has no obligation to announce details before they are ready, would they sit idly by allowing the media to name the same wrong team(s), day after day, week after week? Would they? All they would have to say is something to the effect that "No decsions have been made re the teams to be invited to join the conference". Or, if some firm decisions have been made, but not all, "The final makeup of the conference has not yet been determined".
Would those C7 guys sit quietly and listen to erroneous media reports for weeks without making some effort to clarify and make it clear that such reports have no basis, considering the importance to the schools involved?
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I hope you are correct. What you say is true and even the rumors pushing Richmond have seemed to die down a bit. My natural pessimism has eased a bit over the last 48 hours.
Nonetheless I won't give full consent to the desired rumors. I'm believing that way the pain may be less if this goes against us.
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03-08-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber
We will know for sure by July 1, 2013. I believe that's the date UD and SLU must officially give the A10 notice they are leaving if they want to pay a 1 million exit fee each instead of 2 million.
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Do you have a source for that?
This decision on the 11th and 12th members, if the new league is ever even going to expand from 9 or 10 teams to 12 teams to begin with, could be pushed well into the future. Thus, I would like to know the last possible day before the $2 million exit fee, instead of the $1 million exit fee, comes into play.
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03-08-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber
We will know for sure by July 1, 2013. I believe that's the date UD and SLU must officially give the A10 notice they are leaving if they want to pay a 1 million exit fee each instead of 2 million.
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And is why I fully expect the 5 teams to be named at one time, even if there is a one year waiting period.
If they don't announce an expansion to 12, I would assume they are just as likely to stick with 9 or 10 forever.
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03-08-2013, 03:39 PM
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And bobber just told you.
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03-08-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Do you have a source for that?
This decision on the 11th and 12th members, if the new league is ever even going to expand from 9 or 10 teams to 12 teams to begin with, could be pushed well into the future. Thus, I would like to know the last possible day before the $2 million exit fee, instead of the $1 million exit fee, comes into play.
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Not likely.
Think back to most of these conference realignment moves. Very few are announced with 3 months notice. Those that have moved that fast did so by negotiating additional exit fee payments. I doubt that's the strategy here.
The normal exit announcement to leave the A10 at the end of the 2013/14 season is July 1, 2013. I fully expect anyone leaving after next year will be given the opportunity to meet the normal deadline.
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03-08-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Not likely.
Think back to most of these conference realignment moves. Very few are announced with 3 months notice. Those that have moved that fast did so by negotiating additional exit fee payments. I doubt that's the strategy here.
The normal exit announcement to leave the A10 at the end of the 2013/14 season is July 1, 2013. I fully expect anyone leaving after next year will be given the opportunity to meet the normal deadline.
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My post was not clear. By "well into the future", I meant that the decision could be pushed back to nearly the end of June 2013(assuming the deadline is July 1, 2013), enough time for an invitation to the new conference to be extended to the invited schools and also enough time for the invited schools to say yes or no.
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03-08-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar
Not that they care, but it would be an injustice to wait to announce the 11th/12th teams (assuming they know who they are). Archie's recruiting that class now. Showing his Big East membership card would get him in a few homes he otherwise might not get in.
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this is a great point. there's the primary issue about ud needing to give notice to the a10, but it also serves the new big east to allow coaches to grab the best recruits they can.
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03-08-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
My post was not clear. By "well into the future", I meant that the decision could be pushed back to nearly the end of June 2013(assuming the deadline is July 1, 2013), enough time for an invitation to the new conference to be extended to the invited schools and also enough time for the invited schools to say yes or no.
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That serves neither the big east, nor the A10 any favors. As other said, if they already know who's going to join, and when they're going to join you announce it as quickly as possibly to allow for those institutions to begin planning so they're in the best shape possible heading into the league (both from a talent and schedule scenerio across multiple sports).
If you're the commish of the A10, you just want confirmation so that you can move the conference forward. If SLU, UD, XU & Butler are all gone, trying to attract wichita St is likely futile. If either UD or SLU are left behind, trying to attract a few midwestern teams becomes a bit easier.
I doubt the A10 is just sitting around waiting for the news to break, I'm sure they are being pro-active and reaching out to various teams across the eastern sea board and mid west to see what they can pull together.
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03-08-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer
this is a great point. there's the primary issue about ud needing to give notice to the a10, but it also serves the new big east to allow coaches to grab the best recruits they can.
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True dat.....it would be easier for Archie to recruit to the Big East than to the A10.
Last edited by bobber; 03-08-2013 at 04:20 PM..
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03-08-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
That serves neither the big east, nor the A10 any favors. As other said, if they already know who's going to join, and when they're going to join you announce it as quickly as possibly to allow for those institutions to begin planning so they're in the best shape possible heading into the league (both from a talent and schedule scenerio across multiple sports).
If you're the commish of the A10, you just want confirmation so that you can move the conference forward. If SLU, UD, XU & Butler are all gone, trying to attract wichita St is likely futile. If either UD or SLU are left behind, trying to attract a few midwestern teams becomes a bit easier.
I doubt the A10 is just sitting around waiting for the news to break, I'm sure they are being pro-active and reaching out to various teams across the eastern sea board and mid west to see what they can pull together.
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My post was directed at the possibility that the c7 are still debating on who they are going to invite, but I agree with your post, it is in everyone's best interests to get this over with ASAP.
So, if the c7 know who they are going to invite, then what's the holdup?
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03-08-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
My post was directed at the possibility that the c7 are still debating on who they are going to invite, but I agree with your post, it is in everyone's best interests to get this over with ASAP.
So, if the c7 know who they are going to invite, then what's the holdup?
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Money and timing is the holdup possibly. You have to please your sponsors. Using the analogy of NASCAR/Indy Car when a new team announces a sponsor it is generaly in connection with a big event for the sponsor. If Fox needs a way to break into the game then they would announce it when it is in Fox's best interests. If they wait until next weekend or later in the month they can gain traction by talking about the new teams they will be covering. Next Sunday everyone will know which tourney they are in. I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen when they can talk about the new conferences have 'x' amount of bids. It will both draw interest into the new conference and tv deal. To announce it now does nothing for the bottom line, which is more than likely why they aren't announcing anything.
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03-08-2013, 04:40 PM
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Everything in an order.
They aren't going to announce their new girlfriend until the divorce is final. And it's a little unseemly to do both at the same time.
So first announce the split. Pick a commissioner or an interim commissioner. Finalize the divorce, name, conference tournament. Then announce expansion.
It is possible they want to make sure ND isn't interested, although from all accounts the C7 aren't real open to ND for a year right now.
It is also possible the 10 or 12 number is still being debated. But my guess is they know who is in or out in each scenario, although if it's 10 their might be some discussion over the last spot.
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03-08-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
My post was directed at the possibility that the c7 are still debating on who they are going to invite, but I agree with your post, it is in everyone's best interests to get this over with ASAP.
So, if the c7 know who they are going to invite, then what's the holdup?
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No way Fox Sports is going to pony up 50-60 Million without knowing who is in the league. These guys aren't fools. This thing will be signed, sealed and delivered when the announcement is made.
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03-08-2013, 04:50 PM
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3-point shot: Butler, Big East not talking yet
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ot-talking-yet
Butler coach Brad Stevens said Thursday night he has heard nothing (as in nada, zilch) about the Bulldogs moving to the new Big East for next season. Of course, that's because multiple sources within the seven schools departing to the new Big East say they were focused solely on exiting the old Big East before looking at expansion and new members...
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03-08-2013, 05:10 PM
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My lord, Butler fans must be up in arms. How can butler just sit around and do nothing. NOTHING?!?! Get your act together Butler and let the Big East know you're intersted.
[sarcasm alert for those who couldn't believe UD administration has never heard a peep about the Big East breaking up a week or so ago]
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03-08-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber
True dat.....it would be easier for Archie to recruit to the Big East than to the A10.
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Not true dat!
The higher up the conference ladder you go the fewer players there are who are game changers. There are many more 2-star and 3-star athletes than 4- and 5-star players.
Newcomers will have the pick of the leftovers for quite some time. Just ask Oliver how things are at DePaul.
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03-08-2013, 05:37 PM
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right. we've been close on kids who chose bcs schools and done relatively well with the players who have committed. now, we could have an additional recruiting tool that could remove the "i wanna bcs school" reasoning, and you claim that it really won't get any better. i get that you're a frustrated optimist or however you want to describe yourself. you wear ud shirts to class. you've gone on far too much about your muscular build (i apparently never worked out as much as you so i guess i should be ashamed of my once 48 inch chest...i've represented national level bodybuilders who aren't as vain about their physiques as you). that doesn't mean a thing to me other than convincing me that you think far too highly of yourself (my experience is that those who should be thought so highly of never suggest that others should think highly of them). but, for your benefit as you clearly didn't fully digest what was written, bobber responded to my statement that it would be better for the new big east to announce teams as soon as possible so that the schools could use that in recruiting. it would make it easier on coaches to recruit since they could tell players they'll be playing in the big east rather than the a10. i can only hope this helps. as to this, i'm a frustrated optimist.
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03-08-2013, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
And is why I fully expect the 5 teams to be named at one time, even if there is a one year waiting period.
If they don't announce an expansion to 12, I would assume they are just as likely to stick with 9 or 10 forever.
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I don't see this happening. I believe they will announce the addition of Butler, X & Creighton and then in a few months, as we are nearing the July 1st deadline, probably sometime in June they will announce SLU & Dayton. We have a few more months of this thing dragging out.
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03-08-2013, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Not true dat!
The higher up the conference ladder you go the fewer players there are who are game changers. There are many more 2-star and 3-star athletes than 4- and 5-star players.
Newcomers will have the pick of the leftovers for quite some time. Just ask Oliver how things are at DePaul.
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I'm with the others, recruiting for UD definitely gets easier in the new conference.
Not sure what you are thinking here rollo? Remember how UD lost Gibson and Henton to so-called BCS bottom feeders Iowa State and Providence? Even being a so-called BE bottom feeder like Providence still means that you are in the BE. BCS is still BCS even if you are at the bottom of the BCS.
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03-08-2013, 07:14 PM
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rollo swears he is not a pessimist, but his latest post is another in a long line (we should not get into the BE-7 because we will suck and be the Fordham of the BE-7) that seem to fit the definition: "A tendency to take the gloomiest possible view of a situation."
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03-08-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Not true dat!
The higher up the conference ladder you go the fewer players there are who are game changers. There are many more 2-star and 3-star athletes than 4- and 5-star players.
Newcomers will have the pick of the leftovers for quite some time. Just ask Oliver how things are at DePaul.
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Archie is already recruiting much higher talent than Oliver and DePaul. Same with players going to St Johns, Seton Hall and Providence. Give him the opportunity to recruit in the Big East? Now you're talking 4-5 star athletes on a normal basis. There is a reason Marquette and Georgetown always come away with a top recruit annually...court success and conference affiliation. IF we are in the new conference, I see us becoming a very major player in recruiting. Rarely does a player walk away from a UD campus/arena visit not feeling impressed. With the freshmen we have now along with the freshmen arriving next year, we already have a very solid foundation for future success.
By the way, the worry of losing Archie to another team in a few years goes out the window as well. Should he leave, we are likely doing very well, and our chances of a high profile replacement coach increases tenfold.
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03-08-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer
right. we've been close on kids who chose bcs schools and done relatively well with the players who have committed. now, we could have an additional recruiting tool that could remove the "i wanna bcs school" reasoning, and you claim that it really won't get any better. i get that you're a frustrated optimist or however you want to describe yourself. you wear ud shirts to class. you've gone on far too much about your muscular build (i apparently never worked out as much as you so i guess i should be ashamed of my once 48 inch chest...i've represented national level bodybuilders who aren't as vain about their physiques as you). that doesn't mean a thing to me other than convincing me that you think far too highly of yourself (my experience is that those who should be thought so highly of never suggest that others should think highly of them). but, for your benefit as you clearly didn't fully digest what was written, bobber responded to my statement that it would be better for the new big east to announce teams as soon as possible so that the schools could use that in recruiting. it would make it easier on coaches to recruit since they could tell players they'll be playing in the big east rather than the a10. i can only hope this helps. as to this, i'm a frustrated optimist.
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03-08-2013, 09:42 PM
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03-08-2013, 09:52 PM
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03-08-2013, 10:09 PM
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UD should try to get UC back on the schedule. They will need to beef up their out of conference games.
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03-08-2013, 10:26 PM
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Not to take away from the strength of the conference...but
Right now it looks like the A10 will be #3 tied behind the Big East and the Big 10.
Yes, the Big East will be a step up.
However, more to my point.
If the conference we are in is already a 'good conference' will we see a real step up with the change in college football? Yes there are fewer bottom feeders in the conference, but where will the change be since there still will be no connection to a football program. I guess we will find out soon enough.
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03-08-2013, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports
If the conference we are in is already a 'good conference' will we see a real step up with the change in college football? Yes there are fewer bottom feeders in the conference, but where will the change be since there still will be no connection to a football program. I guess we will find out soon enough.
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But will the conference we are in still be a "good conference" if Xavier, Butler, St Louis, and Richmond leave? And to your second point, one major change will be $3,000,000 vs $300,000. Yes, I think we would see a real step up.
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03-08-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
But will the conference we are in still be a "good conference" if Xavier, Butler, St Louis, and Richmond leave? And to your second point, one major change will be $3,000,000 vs $300,000. Yes, I think we would see a real step up.
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I would love to see UD football go Division 1 if the enormous uptick in revenue would accomplish that. Even if we were like a Bowling Green or Akron it would be neat to grow the program with scholarship players.
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03-09-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago
I would love to see UD football go Division 1 if the enormous uptick in revenue would accomplish that. Even if we were like a Bowling Green or Akron it would be neat to grow the program with scholarship players.
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Bowling Green football revenue: $4,154,484
Bowling Green football expenses: $4,052,175
(from: http://athleticscholarships.com/mens...y-main-campus/)
Bowling Green total athletic department revenue: $18,087,524
(from: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/spo...-tell-you.html)
Net to other sports: $14,035,349.
UD total athletic department expenses: $17,700,000 (2010 est)
UD total athletic department revenue: $11,505,000 (2010 est)
Net shortfall: $6,200,000
UD basketball revenue: $9,100,000
UD basketball expenses: $3,400,000
Net to other sports: $5,700,000
(from: http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...c-pro-1/nNGmh/)
Even if UD hoops brought in $3M more with the Fox Sports payout, the overall athletic department will still be $3M in the hole. If we sponsored football at the BGSU level, UD would quickly find itself back to $7M+ in the hole every year. BGSU turns an annual $100K profit on their football program; there's no guarantee UD could do that, so you could be looking at an even bigger annual shortfall. Additionally, there would be huge infrastructure costs that the U. would have to initiate just to get to that level.
Football for UD should remain where it is. FBS football for a school like Dayton is a giant money loser. The additional revenue we will hopefully make in the Big East should be reinvested in the program and current athletic department. Besides, isn't our committment to hoops the reason we're supposedly an attractive candidate to the new Big East?
Last edited by Viperstick; 03-09-2013 at 12:04 AM..
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03-09-2013, 12:18 AM
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You'd need to add about 6 more womens sports to account for the 85 scholarships in DI football. Adding football is basically like adding two football programs financially.
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