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07-28-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
Classic. Stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem.
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If this is really a problem we must live in a wonderful world. It is just a logo folks.
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07-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Just off the Jet
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I'm not sure which logo I like better, ours or theirs:
http://www.dinoslogistics.com/index.htm
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07-28-2014, 09:38 AM
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I saw a recent study where everyone who sees a V in the logo tends to have a lower IQ. Is it any wonder that most X fans see it?
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07-28-2014, 10:40 AM
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Colonel
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Excellent post "kman84ud". I like the Dino Logistics logo. There is something psychological about this issue. Now, I see "D" logo's everywhere. Before, I never noticed them.
Now every time I see a "D" logo, I flash back to the Dayton Flyer logo. The "D" logo is not unique enough. It does not give our program an identity. Good or bad, it's flaw is that it does not resonate. It's does not provide a higher level of identification.
I am sorry but the new logo is boring!
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07-28-2014, 10:56 AM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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When looking at Dino's D, does anyone see a V? If not, then the solution for UD is to extend the wings so that the lowest one does not end in a point and start immediately back up the right side, thus hinting at a V. Of course, then you may have to worry about trademark infringement, possibly (I'm not a lawyer, so not sure if a problem if wings are the identical as long as the D is sufficiently different).
With that said. It is a Winged D, not a VD. It is a WING!! Yes, I see how someone can see a V (I was one of the first two that originally answered Chris R's question of "where is the V?"). But just because I can see it, and others can see it, does NOT mean that is what it is. And what it is...is a WING!!! And being that we are called the Flyers, that should be obvious!!
There is no lower IQ if you don't see the V. There is no lower IQ if you do see the V. But I wish somebody would do a study to see what happens when someone absolutely refuses to see what something actually is intended to be and cries about their own interpretation for weeks. Probably no difference with IQ, but guessing it will prove the whiners have a lower maturity level.
Last edited by CraSch; 07-28-2014 at 10:58 AM..
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07-28-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt
Supposedly the Arena floor was tweaked so the center court logo is all red instead of red and blue. Personally, I like the single color better. I get the blue and red two color look to accent both our main colors but think it looks cleaner in all red.
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Heard the same from a reliable source...yet to see.
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07-28-2014, 12:44 PM
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2nd Lieutenant
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Sent the logo and word font to 3 friends with no UD affiliation (went to Vanderbilt, Va. Tech and Syracuse) and pictures of the previous logos. All 3 basketball fans. All liked the D more than the UD logo, and the new font much more than the Dayton Flyers logo. All knew it was a wing for the Flyers and none mentioned the V. One specifically said the uniform colors are much better and one said the old logo was "cartoonish".
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College B-Ball Fan (07-28-2014), CraSch (07-28-2014), Flyer 86 (07-29-2014), flyerfanatic86 (07-28-2014), fuz_forward (07-28-2014), Garson (07-29-2014), jack72 (07-28-2014), Lifelong Flyer Fan (07-28-2014), NorthwestFlyer (07-28-2014), ruechalgrin (07-28-2014), sw368407 (07-28-2014), THirt (07-28-2014), ud2 (07-28-2014), UDEE79 (07-29-2014) |
07-28-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
Classic. Stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem.
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Some also try to find problems where none really exist because they want their own way - screaming louder and louder until they are convinced they will win out. But, I get it, the squeaky wheel get the grease.
For the record, I neither love or hate the new logo, but it is growing on me more and more. I do like the one color design better though. I think this would be a good compromise by the "U" to show that they are listening and concerned about taking all views into consideration. Something tells me this will never be enough for some though.
IMHO, the logo is designed with the younger generation in mind. The current players and the recruits being brought in probably never saw the VD until it was pointed out to them over and over again. When was the last time you really heard the term "VD" - outside the rage shown on this site.
The term used for quite some time as been "Sexually Transmitted Disease or STD". VD is really an antiquated term that does not have the same feel as it did 25 years ago, certainly not to the younger generation.
Just my opinion though.
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07-28-2014, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
So rude.
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Jack72 doesn't get admonished for the remark that provoked his response. In one post the apologists are trying to to snuff out the negative responses, only to pour gas on the fire a few posts later. They've spun this just about every which way possible. I think they should just retreat. I love this thread, can we pin it!?! The university has acted in short time responding to the ones that see 'great potential for easy disrespect' from fans. The emperor has no clothes. True story.
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07-28-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
The emperor has no clothes.
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...but the subjects have some sweet new unis.
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07-28-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
There is no V in the new logo.
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And yet they repainted the logo at mid court. Your explanation would be. . . they just ran out of paint the first time?
Just because you choose not to see it does not mean it's not there for the rest of the observant to see.
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07-28-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CraSch
With that said. It is a Winged D, not a VD. It is a WING!! Yes, I see how someone can see a V (I was one of the first two that originally answered Chris R's question of "where is the V?"). But just because I can see it, and others can see it, does NOT mean that is what it is. And what it is...is a WING!!! And being that we are called the Flyers, that should be obvious!!
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Totally agree, and I don't mean to imply to anyone with my other posts that it's SUPPOSED to be V. I think everyone, everywhere, knows it's SUPPOSED to be wing.
But here's the problem: if your name is Tom Agina and you own Agina Trucking, and you put a swoosh at the beginning of your name that looks like a letter of the alphabet, you might want to be very careful about which letter of the alphabet it resembles.
And if you're the Dayton Flyers, and you want it to look like a wing, you might consider that most planes have 2 of them, not 1.
I also don't hate the new logo, I just think it's crazy that no one noticed this before it was finalized.
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07-28-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
...but the subjects have some sweet new unis.
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I love them and I can't wait to see the team. I have to admit that the all-red logo looks pretty cool. I can hardly wait to cheer on our red wings, er, Flyers! Go Flyers!
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07-28-2014, 02:58 PM
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Well
Originally Posted by Gazoo
Totally agree, and I don't mean to imply to anyone with my other posts that it's SUPPOSED to be V. I think everyone, everywhere, knows it's SUPPOSED to be wing.
But here's the problem: if your name is Tom Agina and you own Agina Trucking, and you put a swoosh at the beginning of your name that looks like a letter of the alphabet, you might want to be very careful about which letter of the alphabet it resembles.
And if you're the Dayton Flyers, and you want it to look like a wing, you might consider that most planes have 2 of them, not 1.
I also don't hate the new logo, I just think it's crazy that no one noticed this before it was finalized.
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this is exactly what happens when history, tradition, and the alumni/fan base are ignored in the process. UD had, (has), an agenda with this logo. As such, they were blind to what a significant number of the stakeholders in the University were going to see. Yep, a 14 year basketball player does not give a rats you know what about the history and tradition of UD, they are reported to think the VD logo is so cool that they will now choose Dayton over Kentucky....
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07-28-2014, 03:34 PM
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07-28-2014, 03:35 PM
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A reported 18 months of "work" to come up with such an original design.... Something tells me the folks at Dinos might not agree....
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07-28-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
this is exactly what happens when history, tradition, and the alumni/fan base are ignored in the process. UD had, (has), an agenda with this logo. As such, they were blind to what a significant number of the stakeholders in the University were going to see. Yep, a 14 year basketball player does not give a rats you know what about the history and tradition of UD, they are reported to think the VD logo is so cool that they will now choose Dayton over Kentucky....
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Agree totally. When the previous logo changes were implemented, every single stakeholder had a say in the end result. And because that was done, there was no public outcry. No anti "VD" Facebook pages. No twitter #dumpVD. To boot, we finally make it to the NCAAs and Elite 8 and I have the most fun I have ever had watching sports and this is what they do. I can't even remember all the positives of last year. I am sending my diploma back.
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07-28-2014, 03:45 PM
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07-28-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I also don't hate the new logo, I just think it's crazy that no one noticed this before it was finalized.
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I agree that its weird that no one noticed it of the original "test" market, whoever they were. I'm just tired of the whining (yes, THirt, this is a whine about whiners whining, sorry). But sheesh, I don't think there is enough cheese in the world to satisfy some of these people.
anyhow, I think you and I are pretty much on the same page, just approaching it slightly differently.
As for your example, I once worked for a company that was headquartered in Regina, Canada. Pronounced with a long I in the middle. I never did get totally comfortable saying that town's name......
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07-28-2014, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
There is no V in the new logo.
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If that was the case then this thread would not be 7 pages long and growing and UD would not have repainted the logo.
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07-28-2014, 04:11 PM
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If they centered the D on the floor, it might look better. The uniforms are sweet so at least we got that going for us.
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07-28-2014, 04:25 PM
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They repainted the same pattern all red. For those all upset about a V pattern
how does this change anything?
On the uniforms I actually don't care for the colors they selected but I'm not losing any sleep they didn't contact me first about it.
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07-28-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Furio
They repainted the same pattern all red. For those all upset about a V pattern how does this change anything?
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Simple. It doesn't stand out as much. It doesn't completely solve the problem but it helps. I thought perhaps if the "D" were blue and the "wings" were red the "V" also wouldn't stand out as much. Your eye would be drawn more to the darker color of the "D."
Last edited by longtimefan; 07-28-2014 at 04:46 PM..
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07-28-2014, 04:59 PM
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07-28-2014, 05:05 PM
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And,...
Originally Posted by longtimefan
Simple. It doesn't stand out as much. It doesn't completely solve the problem but it helps. I thought perhaps if the "D" were blue and the "wings" were red the "V" also wouldn't stand out as much. Your eye would be drawn more to the darker color of the "D."
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.....more. The logo is a "D with wings"....a "flying D".....we're the Flyers.
A wing and D having different colors interupts the flow, breaks the flow. A single color, red, blue, white,....provides needed continuity of flow.
Fortunately, this easy-to-make change is a significant improvement. Nonetheless, one does wonder why no one picked up on this over many months with many viewers.
For sure, the U was blindsided by the furor....it took very little time to get out the paint can.
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07-28-2014, 05:36 PM
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FWIW, I showed the new logo to a non-UD fan friend, she saw the v(without being prompted to look for it)and liked the old logo better. Suffice it to say that I disagree with her opinion.
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07-28-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Jack72 doesn't get admonished for the remark that provoked his response. In one post the apologists are trying to to snuff out the negative responses, only to pour gas on the fire a few posts later. They've spun this just about every which way possible. I think they should just retreat. I love this thread, can we pin it!?! The university has acted in short time responding to the ones that see 'great potential for easy disrespect' from fans. The emperor has no clothes. True story.
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Flyer5, if you can't see a crack on the X fans in Jacks note vs a crack on fellow priders who differ in opinion in the next, then I honestly don't know what to say and am not going to waste everyone's time spelling it out.
Personally happy they changed the court logo to a solid color to appease and I think the overall package is going to outweigh folks misinterpretation of what the logo is supposed to represent.
I could see what people where pointing to as a V, but it doesn't and never has stood out to me. Yet I should be called names for not seeing it or disagreeing with a very angry vocal group that seems to be giving more fodder to our rivals? I would hate to see this group in a modern art exhibit... scratch that, it might be humorous.
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07-28-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
this is exactly what happens when history, tradition, and the alumni/fan base are ignored in the process. UD had, (has), an agenda with this logo. As such, they were blind to what a significant number of the stakeholders in the University were going to see. Yep, a 14 year basketball player does not give a rats you know what about the history and tradition of UD, they are reported to think the VD logo is so cool that they will now choose Dayton over Kentucky....
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No matter how many times you say it, you are not entitled to be part of the process. Amazing that you feel so. My family has had season tickets since the arena opened for which I now donate plenty to Dayton to have the privilege to watch games and I have a degree on my wall from the University of Dayton for which I paid dearly for, but I in no way think they owe me anything. Now, if they had included me in the process I would have been honored and gladly participated.
College basketball, even at Dayton, is big business, and as such they have the right to try and maximize profits. You have the right to show your displeasure in many ways, including but not limited to :not renewing your tickets (obviously an overkill), simply do not buy anything with the new logo, and I am sure that they will get the message if it affects the bottom line - most likely even make another change.
Any I agree the logo will not get a 14 yr old to choose Dayton over KY, which by the way no one said but is does sound so much more dramatic the way your trying to spin it, but it does get their attention if they like it, if only for a second.
Last edited by Sarge; 07-28-2014 at 07:10 PM..
Reason: just no need to go there....
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07-28-2014, 06:42 PM
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Colonel
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This thread is hilarious. Thanks for the laughs Priders.
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07-28-2014, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
...In one post the apologists are trying to to snuff out the negative responses...
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After nearly 650 posts, I think its safe to say Flyer fans are not very good at snuffing out much of anything -- for or against.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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07-28-2014, 07:12 PM
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I'm looking at the new one-color logo through my polarized shades. You would not believe what I am seeing. There is going to be a second round of outrage.
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07-28-2014, 07:13 PM
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Colonel
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"hilarious" is not the term I would choose...... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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07-28-2014, 08:01 PM
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For some reason, I felt the need to post this picture in this thread.
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Columbia Blue (07-29-2014), JimBo (07-29-2014), Justin (07-29-2014), rollo (07-29-2014), runnerup (07-29-2014), shocka43 (07-28-2014), THirt (08-01-2014), Tony T 71 (07-29-2014), UDBaby (07-29-2014), UDEE79 (07-30-2014), UDGutter2 (07-29-2014) |
07-28-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I'm looking at the new one-color logo through my polarized shades. You would not believe what I am seeing. There is going to be a second round of outrage.
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Huh??
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07-28-2014, 08:40 PM
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Things could always be worse.....
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07-28-2014, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarge
No matter how many times you say it, you are not entitled to be part of the process. Amazing that you feel so. My family has had season tickets since the arena opened for which I now donate plenty to Dayton to have the privilege to watch games and I have a degree on my wall from the University of Dayton for which I paid dearly for, but I in no way think they owe me anything. Now, if they had included me in the process I would have been honored and gladly participated.
College basketball, even at Dayton, is big business, and as such they have the right to try and maximize profits. You have the right to show your displeasure in many ways, including but not limited to :not renewing your tickets (obviously an overkill), simply do not buy anything with the new logo, and I am sure that they will get the message if it affects the bottom line - most likely even make another change.
Any I agree the logo will not get a 14 yr old to choose Dayton over KY, which by the way no one said but is does sound so much more dramatic the way your trying to spin it, but it does get their attention if they like it, if only for a second.
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UD did not have to include anyone, but UD's biggest mistake in my opinion was not throwing out a simple survey and a couple of social media posts so people could weigh in on what they thought the design team should emphasize with rebrand. UD didnt need to do it. Sure. But knowing how passionate people are about UD, you would think they would give the community the impression they wanted feedback from as many as possible who identify with the university. Ignoring that advice would have been fine, but they set themselves up for negative reaction by failing to create buy-in with an opportunity for folks to take part in the process (even if it would have been a bit of a ruse). Whatever the design team came up with, UD could use real data to support it. Kind of like how you can find a statistic to support just about anything. Heck, get feedback in a survey form (pre-design) just to capture email addresses and phone numbers to use in fundraising down the road. So many reason to make a public display of feedback gathering when the process began and that is the oversight. Once the logo is decided, opinion will be what it is, but it helps to be able to point to the fact that the rebrand was a community-driven result. That's how I would have done things anyway, speaking from the experience of having worked through some rebranding campaigns myself.
Last edited by DallasFlyer; 07-28-2014 at 11:42 PM..
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07-29-2014, 06:33 AM
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Colonel
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I went from HATE IT to extreme dislike. No shirt or hat for me.
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07-29-2014, 06:51 AM
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The DDN with an explanation: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...d-arena/ngpxj/
Move along now folks, nothing to see here.
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07-29-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
Flyer5, if you can't see a crack on the X fans in Jacks note vs a crack on fellow priders who differ in opinion in the next, then I honestly don't know what to say and am not going to waste everyone's time spelling it out.
Personally happy they changed the court logo to a solid color to appease and I think the overall package is going to outweigh folks misinterpretation of what the logo is supposed to represent.
I could see what people where pointing to as a V, but it doesn't and never has stood out to me. Yet I should be called names for not seeing it or disagreeing with a very angry vocal group that seems to be giving more fodder to our rivals? I would hate to see this group in a modern art exhibit... scratch that, it might be humorous.
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NorthwestFlyer, if you can't see the slight to "all" then I don't want to waste my time trying to explain it to you. Maybe you should re-read. I won't be disrespected by anyone then go quietly. Now, I'm not going to pretend it wasn't in good humor and would not have responded had YOU not taken sides.
Last edited by FLYER5; 07-29-2014 at 07:51 AM..
Reason: misspelling
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07-29-2014, 08:19 AM
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You're being facetious, correct? That official explanation says to me loud and clear they see it now, they didn't see it before, and agree that the single color de-emphasizes the issue. So they're doing what they can with what they've got. Fair enough.
If you weren't being facetious, what were they supposed to say? "Sorry we screwed up so badly, we'll do better next time." This is exactly what they would say upon realizing the error: “Before the floor was sealed, we reviewed the entire court, how it looked on camera and took feedback into consideration,” said Neil Sullivan, UD’s deputy athletic director.
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07-29-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarge
No matter how many times you say it, you are not entitled to be part of the process. Amazing that you feel so. My family has had season tickets since the arena opened for which I now donate plenty to Dayton to have the privilege to watch games and I have a degree on my wall from the University of Dayton for which I paid dearly for, but I in no way think they owe me anything. Now, if they had included me in the process I would have been honored and gladly participated.
College basketball, even at Dayton, is big business, and as such they have the right to try and maximize profits. You have the right to show your displeasure in many ways, including but not limited to :not renewing your tickets (obviously an overkill), simply do not buy anything with the new logo, and I am sure that they will get the message if it affects the bottom line - most likely even make another change.
Any I agree the logo will not get a 14 yr old to choose Dayton over KY, which by the way no one said but is does sound so much more dramatic the way your trying to spin it, but it does get their attention if they like it, if only for a second.
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Wow, nothing like reading a post from someone so blinded by their opinion that they spout utter nonsense! I have never said that I needed or even wanted to be personally involved in a logo decision. What I did say for those of you to clueless to figure it out on your own is that UD handled the rollout of a new logo exceptionally poorly. By choosing to completely ignore social media, (something that did not exist the last time a logo was rolled out for those of you following along), UD completely blew it. If you believe the folks here that a 50% acceptance rate is something to cheer about, you can argue that UD knew going in that the social media reaction was going to be very, very poor! Rather than deal with that possibility up front, UD stuck to its narrow agenda and honked off a large segment of the stakeholders. I do not like the new logo or the old logo. I do not currently buy anything that says only UD and I will certainly not buy the VD logo. I only but things that say more, Dayton or Flyers, etc. Because nobody knows UD outside of Dayton and nobody will know VD outside of Dayton.
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07-29-2014, 09:33 AM
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This may have been posted, but does anyone see a face on the left side of the D looking to the left. Mouth, nose and forehead? Kinda like one of those IQ dot tests. Tell us what you see.
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07-29-2014, 09:47 AM
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These logo threads have zero to do with basketball. After 7 pages there is nothing new here, or no more insults to be cast. These thread needs to be in Off Topic.
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07-29-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66
This may have been posted, but does anyone see a face on the left side of the D looking to the left. Mouth, nose and forehead? Kinda like one of those IQ dot tests. Tell us what you see.
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Conan (not Jim) O'Brien. There were a few posts earlier about this, but I think it has a striking resemblance. In fact, I know some folks who have submitted the new logo to Conan's show since he eats that kind of stuff up.
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07-29-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
NorthwestFlyer, if you can't see the slight to "all" then I don't want to waste my time trying to explain it to you. Maybe you should re-read. I won't be disrespected by anyone then go quietly. Now, I'm not going to pretend it wasn't in good humor and would not have responded had YOU not taken sides.
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Disrespect or overly sensitive? Just asking?
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07-29-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
Disrespect or overly sensitive? Just asking?
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Is that your lip quivering as you try to spin this another way? The ones who've noticed a potential Target for disrespect by opposing fans is "giving fodder to X"... You are in the stands you're so far in left field on this subject. We pointed out a discrepency, then were attacked by the apologists, such as yourself. It's ok if you don't want to admit you're wrong. Overly incorrect? Poke the wrong bear? Cry baby.. The logo sucked. We were right. The U agreed. Eat it..lol..
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07-29-2014, 11:19 AM
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07-29-2014, 11:22 AM
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I'm glad to see that the U changed the color scheme on the floor logo. I knew IF I didn't post for a few days they would capitulate and do the right thing!
Now it appears that based upon this logo, we have brother against brother, father against son, friends against alums, graduates against students.
Not sure the logo was bad enough to warrant an un-civil war.
I propose a alumni cease fire to last till the Red & Blue Game ......
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07-29-2014, 11:35 AM
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The only Logos I care about...
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07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe
Conan (not Jim) O'Brien. There were a few posts earlier about this, but I think it has a striking resemblance. In fact, I know some folks who have submitted the new logo to Conan's show since he eats that kind of stuff up.
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Conan's face in our logo is beginning to worry me. This could be used against us by salty fans from other schools. That could be devestating to our team psychologically. Thank God that Leno's profile does not appear in the logo. That would be truly embarrassing.
I showed it to my wife and she saw Conan immediately. Houston, we have a problem. Fix it!
Last edited by Fudd; 07-29-2014 at 12:12 PM..
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07-29-2014, 12:56 PM
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more civilized discussion from actual designers. no vitriol like our fan base, but maybe indifferent:
http://www.underconsideration.com/br..._160over90.php
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07-29-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Is that your lip quivering as you try to spin this another way? The ones who've noticed a potential Target for disrespect by opposing fans is "giving fodder to X"... You are in the stands you're so far in left field on this subject. We pointed out a discrepency, then were attacked by the apologists, such as yourself. It's ok if you don't want to admit you're wrong. Overly incorrect? Poke the wrong bear? Cry baby.. The logo sucked. We were right. The U agreed. Eat it..lol..
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Still hitting me with personal attacks and painting me into argument I have not made - nice! There will be no lip quivering here. I will remain iced, like Jordan Sibert in his newly branded Uni taking a 1 and 1 standing on the newly logo'd Blackburn Court shooting for the GT award.
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07-29-2014, 02:00 PM
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"As many as 300 people became involved in a massive brawl Sunday night at a New Jersey wedding hall that ended with two arrests, MyFoxNY.com reported.
...
Two off-duty police officers were working the reception as security when they were alerted to a fight. As the officers attempted to break up the fight, they say the crowd swelled to about 80 people. The were pushing and shoving each other while screaming and yelling."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/29...cmp=latestnews
See fella and gals ... here's how you have a brawl in Jersey! At a wedding no less .... where friends and family meet to celebrate great times!
Just like here on the Pride!
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07-29-2014, 02:16 PM
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Thank U....reading the comments posted in the link leaves me feeling the same way bout the new logo, and apparently the same as most people....Meah (to quote Bat '71).
Let me see if I have this right....UD unveils a new logo following a breakout season in our top sports program and the 3 most common reactions to the winning design are:
1. Its ok! I'll grow on me
2. Meah....geez that's a buzz killer
3. God it SUCKS!
Anyone else notice that:
4. FANTASTIC!!! - polls so poorly that it isn't even worth noting except for its conspicuous absence. Lotta people noting how this thread has gone on too long and is now off the rails...Ok, can anyone point to more than a handful of comments that say "Wow! We hit that one out of the park!"
Shouldn't be too much to expect, especially in 2014. Hell, they should've put the whole **** project out to the UD entrepreneurs program and given the winning design a scholarship...or lower bowl tics.
If the best design, which probably cost a shekel or two, is at best underwhelming..and at worst UGH, I'd say that opining that they cudda done a better job of it isn't unjustified.
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07-29-2014, 03:07 PM
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I don't hate the all-red version - - - thanks, Fudd!
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07-30-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
Still hitting me with personal attacks and painting me into argument I have not made - nice! There will be no lip quivering here. I will remain iced, like Jordan Sibert in his newly branded Uni taking a 1 and 1 standing on the newly logo'd Blackburn Court shooting for the GT award.
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No, I don't mean anything personal, friend. Your teachers weren't attacking you when they showed you right from wrong either. Seriously, it's an off-topic basketball thread where nothing should be taken seriously. I voiced my opinion early on, then again as the logo grew on me. What you did when you singled out DF was, in my mind, strike a cyber-blow to the ones who also 'constructively' disliked the logo. That's all. Throwing us all under the bus....instead of warming it up and meeting at Tanks! It's all good. Just a message board. Thanks for leaving me "Dyshawn Pierre: A10 POTY" Go Flyers!
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07-30-2014, 08:51 AM
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Hi all, I started this thread to have some fun before the new logo came out (and to make most of you aware that one was coming). PLEASE STOP THE PERSONAL/GROUP STUFF. Whining is fine, having an opinion is fine, but don't take things to the next level. FLYER FAN-DOM UNITES US, LET'S NOT LET IT TEAR US APART. Cue sappy violen music.
Edit: I like the sound of "Dyshawn Pierre: A10 POTY", also "Darrell Davis: A10 ROTY"
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07-30-2014, 09:04 AM
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I am fine that they made the centercourt logo all red but now there is no blue at all on the court. maybe they should make a thin out of bounds line in blue. I think the court should have both colors.
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07-30-2014, 09:22 AM
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The area around the court which is now red would look good in blue and the white lettering would probably show up even better. I think they will add blue in time, but I doubt it happens this year.
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07-30-2014, 10:09 AM
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Funny story. The weekend before the logo was introduced I was at a street festival in Detroit. A booth was selling "heritage banners" like this: http://www.baseballpilgrimages.com/b...incinnati.html
I asked about a Dayton banner and the proprieter proudly showed me a prototype and said he would have some to sell soon. I said that there was a new logo coming out any day and he said "no there isn't I just had this design approved by the University." I told him that he might want to hold off on production because one was coming out any day. Needless to say he was not pleased.
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07-31-2014, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer69ers
I don't hate the all-red version - - - thanks, Fudd!
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I'm liking that all-white version on Daytonflyers.com too.
I get that there are lots of people out there who favor something different for the logo. I've spoken with a lot of different fans about it, and the opinions are as diverse as if I asked them what kind of music they like. Like music, the "right answer" is all about personal taste. I thought the old logo was fugly, and I avoided buying hats/shirts etc that sported it. I was more partial to the items that just spelled out "Dayton". I like this new logo far more than the old. The new uniforms are absolutely sweet. Both changes are wins IMO. One of the strangest criticisms of the uniforms from someone I spoke to was that the new UD home whites were too similar to the Ohio State home uniforms. I think any team with red as a primary color and Nike style uniforms are going to look similar in the home whites. And now OSU looks like the THE UD Flyers!
Last edited by Fudd; 07-31-2014 at 04:05 AM..
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08-01-2014, 12:01 AM
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This thread has taken thirty minutes of my life that I will never get back . . .
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08-01-2014, 08:59 AM
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Not so unique
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08-01-2014, 09:20 AM
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Interesting that when you take non-partisan critiques of it, there wasnt a single mention of seeing "VD".
Considering the opinion in this thread, you would have thought seasoned graphic designers and artists would have spotted it immediately and centered the discussion on it.
Their critiques were focused elsewhere on things they felt were more important.
Just find this interesting.
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08-01-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Interesting that when you take non-partisan critiques of it, there wasnt a single mention of seeing "VD".
Considering the opinion in this thread, you would have thought seasoned graphic designers and artists would have spotted it immediately and centered the discussion on it.
Their critiques were focused elsewhere on things they felt were more important.
Just find this interesting.
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I also found it interesting that the general consensus there was that it was mediocre-to-poor and that it's a missed opportunity. Whether or not there's a "V", even industry professionals are not kind to this re-design.
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08-01-2014, 09:49 AM
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All that tells me is that....
Originally Posted by Chris R
Interesting that when you take non-partisan critiques of it, there wasnt a single mention of seeing "VD".
Considering the opinion in this thread, you would have thought seasoned graphic designers and artists would have spotted it immediately and centered the discussion on it.
Their critiques were focused elsewhere on things they felt were more important.
Just find this interesting.
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the right people were not engaged. As I have said elsewhere, the folks that pushed out this logo had a very specific agenda and they were clearly blinded by the agenda. They did not see a VD because they completely discounted the UD logo as cartoonish, silly, outdated, whatever.... Unfortunately, many stakeholders grew attached to the UD logo over the years and frankly it is only natural that those folks eyes and minds would look for a similar logo with two characters. When that is done, the VD is very clear. Poorly handled and we can only hope that the design community and UD have learned a valuable lesson that is not repeated again in the future.
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08-01-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Interesting that when you take non-partisan critiques of it, there wasnt a single mention of seeing "VD".
Considering the opinion in this thread, you would have thought seasoned graphic designers and artists would have spotted it immediately and centered the discussion on it.
Their critiques were focused elsewhere on things they felt were more important.
Just find this interesting.
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"Spent a good 10 minutes trying to see if the weird fringe on the D had another purpose (A hidden F or the shape of something) but I just can't find any good reason for it."
Instead this person saw an F. Point made, they did not see a V.
For those of us who are also expecting to see a letter there, and were expecting that letter to be a U, it is perfectly natural to see the similarly shaped V instead.
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08-01-2014, 01:19 PM
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I'd bet if it were possible that an overwhelming majority of people identified a V before they did the very vague U. Detroit made what I think is a very valid point in that we as Flyer fans 'look' for two letters because, well, we were UD. I believe I fall into that group so I immediately saw the 90's version Viacom V(?) Anyone else? And just because that wasn't mentioned may be because they ID'd other failures first. I think Gazoo said to the effect, if your last name's Agina, then you won't name your kids Victor or Vallery..
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08-01-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
the right people were not engaged. As I have said elsewhere, the folks that pushed out this logo had a very specific agenda and they were clearly blinded by the agenda. They did not see a VD because they completely discounted the UD logo as cartoonish, silly, outdated, whatever.... Unfortunately, many stakeholders grew attached to the UD logo over the years and frankly it is only natural that those folks eyes and minds would look for a similar logo with two characters. When that is done, the VD is very clear. Poorly handled and we can only hope that the design community and UD have learned a valuable lesson that is not repeated again in the future.
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It is really weird to keep reading the same incorrect take over and over. There is no agenda being pushed.
The university/athletic department had been thinking about a brand redesign for several years. Archie Miller was interested in a new look almost as soon as he arrived. The current coaching staff voiced their opinion(s) which sped up the process some. About 18 months ago, the university decided to move forward. The original plan was to roll everything out after this coming basketball season but the run to the Elite Eight accelerated the timetable and everything was completed a few weeks ago.
During the 18 months, input was sought from the coaching staff, the players, the athletic department, Nike, students, season ticket holders. 160 over 90 technically designed the logo, but they did so after interviewing a lot of people and seeking input from many. Personally, I think Archie Miller's opinion is a heck of a lot more important than mine in this matter. If anyone is "pushing an agenda" I guess you would say it is him. He has a clear vision for the program (see he excellent Jon Rothstein piece from yesterday) and the brand redesign is part of that vision.
The world is not completely black and white. The administration is not pushing an agenda down anyone's throat. A criticism of the older logo was that it was a bit cartoonish, yes, but that is not the same thing as it being "completely discounted." The so-called "V" was most certainly discussed during the development process; UD gave its fans enough credit to realize that there is no V. It is a D designed to appear in motion, as if flying.
Again, I have no problem if someone doesn't like the look. That's cool. What I have a problem with is reading demonstrably false statements about how it was developed. I wasn't involved in its development but I have talked to several people who were.
I'm not sure who someone else would consider the "right people" to involve. I would say that the head coach, his assistants, the athletic department staff, current athletes, current students, current season ticket holders, Nike, and a design company who had worked for UD for the last 6 years (and lists Mercedes Benz, the Miami Dolphins, and the Athlete's Foot as clients) is a descriptor of the "right people." Whether they got it "right" or not is certainly up for debate. Whether some agenda was pushed is not.
I wrote a similar post to this a week or so ago, and instead of any specific points I made being called into question, my IQ and the IQ of those who read my post were called into question. I'd be happy to debate any specific thing I said that is wrong. But I'm not happy to let demonstrably false statements about my school go unchallenged.
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08-01-2014, 01:51 PM
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Incorrect Again....
Originally Posted by THirt
It is really weird to keep reading the same incorrect take over and over. There is no agenda being pushed.
The university/athletic department had been thinking about a brand redesign for several years. Archie Miller was interested in a new look almost as soon as he arrived. The current coaching staff voiced their opinion(s) which sped up the process some. About 18 months ago, the university decided to move forward. The original plan was to roll everything out after this coming basketball season but the run to the Elite Eight accelerated the timetable and everything was completed a few weeks ago.
During the 18 months, input was sought from the coaching staff, the players, the athletic department, Nike, students, season ticket holders. 160 over 90 technically designed the logo, but they did so after interviewing a lot of people and seeking input from many. Personally, I think Archie Miller's opinion is a heck of a lot more important than mine in this matter. If anyone is "pushing an agenda" I guess you would say it is him. He has a clear vision for the program (see he excellent Jon Rothstein piece from yesterday) and the brand redesign is part of that vision.
The world is not completely black and white. The administration is not pushing an agenda down anyone's throat. A criticism of the older logo was that it was a bit cartoonish, yes, but that is not the same thing as it being "completely discounted." The so-called "V" was most certainly discussed during the development process; UD gave its fans enough credit to realize that there is no V. It is a D designed to appear in motion, as if flying.
Again, I have no problem if someone doesn't like the look. That's cool. What I have a problem with is reading demonstrably false statements about how it was developed. I wasn't involved in its development but I have talked to several people who were.
I'm not sure who someone else would consider the "right people" to involve. I would say that the head coach, his assistants, the athletic department staff, current athletes, current students, current season ticket holders, Nike, and a design company who had worked for UD for the last 6 years (and lists Mercedes Benz, the Miami Dolphins, and the Athlete's Foot as clients) is a descriptor of the "right people." Whether they got it "right" or not is certainly up for debate. Whether some agenda was pushed is not.
I wrote a similar post to this a week or so ago, and instead of any specific points I made being called into question, my IQ and the IQ of those who read my post were called into question. I'd be happy to debate any specific thing I said that is wrong. But I'm not happy to let demonstrably false statements about my school go unchallenged.
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if you have in fact talked to anyone at UD involved in the process, you would know that there absolutely was an agenda, goal, target, etc. Even common sense would tell you that you do not redevelop a logo without an agenda, goal, target, etc. The FACT that a large number of stakeholders do not like the new logo and clearly see a "VD" is an epic fail. If you choose to drink the koolaid and stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem, then you and people like you are a big part of the problem. You have demonstrated absolutely nothing but your own unwillingness to admit a problem. Shocker!
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08-01-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
if you have in fact talked to anyone at UD involved in the process, you would know that there absolutely was an agenda, goal, target, etc. Even common sense would tell you that you do not redevelop a logo without an agenda, goal, target, etc. The FACT that a large number of stakeholders do not like the new logo and clearly see a "VD" is an epic fail. If you choose to drink the koolaid and stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem, then you and people like you are a big part of the problem. You have demonstrated absolutely nothing but your own unwillingness to admit a problem. Shocker!
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If you have anything specific to debate about what I said, I'd be happy to discuss it. If you just want to argue and to imply that I'm a liar, I don't think that's very useful for anyone.
If the agenda was advancing the athletics department, making the logo more recognizable, more modern, easier to identify as the Dayton Flyers' logo, and easier to put on TV, on apparel, then uh, yeah, there was an agenda. I have yet to hear any kind of coherent argument that they were "blinded" by said agenda.
But that's cool. I see your technique. When called out on specifics, call the source a liar, distract from the issue and deflect to my credibility. Got it. I stand by all my posts about the logo, and I would be happy to debate any of the specifics that are incorrect.
If being a season ticket holder who supports the university and posts positive things about it and the basketball team makes me "part of the problem," then I'm happy to be part of that problem. I've talked to roughly 15 people every weekday about the logo (I have UD stuff all over my office, everyone knows I love the Flyers) and probably 1 or 2 out of the 15 that I've talked to each day have expressed a dislike. Probably 10-12 have said they think it's fine, okay, or decent, and a couple like it, or say they are liking it more with time. But then again, I live and work in the Dayton area and interact with real live people who root for Dayton, so I guess I'm just a Kool-Aid drinking, part-of-the-problem kind of guy.
I'd argue the bigger problem is the people who think that saying mean things on the internet will get the university to change something that the head coach asked for and likes.
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08-01-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
I also found it interesting that the general consensus there was that it was mediocre-to-poor and that it's a missed opportunity. Whether or not there's a "V", even industry professionals are not kind to this re-design.
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But thats an entirely different question than the "V" problem. What Im saying is the main problem UD fans identified was not remotely a problem with unbiased graphic designers. What they saw was very different than what UD fans saw. The fact that both are tepid to the general design is a much broader and separate conclusion.
When you are pre-disposed to see things, you usually see them. If I show you a blob and tell you to spot the butterfly, if you stare at it long enough, you'll see a butterfly. Or Elvis. Once one person sees a "V", everyone that doesnt like the overall design will start seeing it too.
When one wildbeest jumps into croc-infested waters, they all do. The natural tendency is to assimilate with the group-think because it is the safe zone. Countless studies with both animals, kids, and adults have been done to substantiate this even when evidence tells you to do or think something different.
Incidentally, why did UDs old tartan floor say "AN" around the center court circle perimeter? Who was responsible for this bonehead decision?
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08-01-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
UD did not have to include anyone, but UD's biggest mistake in my opinion was not throwing out a simple survey and a couple of social media posts so people could weigh in on what they thought the design team should emphasize with rebrand. UD didnt need to do it. Sure. But knowing how passionate people are about UD, you would think they would give the community the impression they wanted feedback from as many as possible who identify with the university. Ignoring that advice would have been fine, but they set themselves up for negative reaction by failing to create buy-in with an opportunity for folks to take part in the process (even if it would have been a bit of a ruse). Whatever the design team came up with, UD could use real data to support it. Kind of like how you can find a statistic to support just about anything. Heck, get feedback in a survey form (pre-design) just to capture email addresses and phone numbers to use in fundraising down the road. So many reason to make a public display of feedback gathering when the process began and that is the oversight. Once the logo is decided, opinion will be what it is, but it helps to be able to point to the fact that the rebrand was a community-driven result. That's how I would have done things anyway, speaking from the experience of having worked through some rebranding campaigns myself.
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I see where you are coming from and appreciate your take on the situation, but I am not sure that I would be willing to use social media for a ruse or the mere appearance of including the community. Seems that could backfire on you as well. I am sure that those heading up this project did their due diligence in surveying a cross section of the Dayton Community before going forward. Thirt has done a great job of outlining this several times.
Personally, I would rather have someone in charge that is willing to make decisions with the proper information obtained (which are not always correct by the way - we all make mistakes) instead of someone that hedges his bet,and then when things do not turn out as expected, uses polls to say this is what the public wanted- especially in our government, but that is a another topic altogether.
Just thinking out loud here, but if you do include social media in the decision making process (or just the appearance of it), will that create a slippery slope that might be hard to stop later? Not sure I have the answer. Social media certainly has many uses today, and I am sure more in the near future, I a just not convinced this is one of those times. But I have been wrong before.
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08-01-2014, 02:53 PM
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The "agenda".
Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
if you have in fact talked to anyone at UD involved in the process, you would know that there absolutely was an agenda,....
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What could the "agenda" possibly have been other than to produce the best logo for UD athletics? Whether or not they succeeded is a matter of opinion, clearly. But, the word "agenda" is being kicked around as if there was something unseemly going on, a plot of some sort, that was not in the best interests of our U. Does that make any sense?
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08-01-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
If you choose to drink the koolaid and stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem, then you and people like you are a big part of the problem.
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What I think those that do not see the V in the logo are drinking - is not Kool-aide but that Orange Drink they used to give at McDonalds for Birthday parties - part fruit drink part Medicine in taste.
Clearly even the University saw the V - you don't repaint the floor one week later for no reason. Sadly seeing it and admitting what a huge cluster Frack this is and doing the right thing and killing the logo out right seem to be two different things. So cheers to all those at the U drinking that orange McD drink. Hope it runs out soon.
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08-01-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R;364457
Incidentally, why did UDs old tartan floor say "AN" around the center court circle perimeter? Who was responsible for this bonehead decision?
[IMG
http://udquickly.udayton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/donoher-center-court-203x300.jpg[/IMG]
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Lol. It took me a few minutes to see it, even looking for it, but point taken.
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08-01-2014, 03:15 PM
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I'm a bit confused by your posts THirt. First you insist there is no V, then you say you have knowledge of the process that everyone recognized there was a V from the start but decided the fans would choose not to see it. So the admin realized from early on there is a V that many here claim does not exist?
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08-01-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
I'd argue the bigger problem is the people who think that saying mean things on the internet will get the university to change something that the head coach asked for and likes.
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I agree with 99% of what you said, but the University DID change the logo (painted it all red) because of feedback from the fans and "mean things" that were said on the internet. You would have to admit that all the moaning and groaning did get results. Or perhaps they simply painted it red because UAC and I said we liked it better all red. They figured if UAC and I agreed on something, we must have a darn good point.
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08-01-2014, 03:21 PM
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It seems to me that earlier in the year when our beloved flyers struggled at the beginning of the conference season, anyone supporting them in any way were called Kool-Aid drinkers and were part of the problem and not a solution. Look how that turned out.
While I do not agree with the U on all instances, I agree with Thirt. I suppose I am drinking the Kool-Aid, or orange drink or whatever.
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08-01-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Incidentally, why did UDs old tartan floor say "AN" around the center court circle perimeter? Who was responsible for this bonehead decision?
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That's not "AN", those are some sort of cryllic characters. Frickin commie pinko...
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08-01-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer
That's not "AN", those are some sort of cryllic characters. Frickin commie pinko...
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08-01-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
The fact that both are tepid to the general design is a much broader and separate conclusion.
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OK, it seems like you are saying that no reasonable person can see a "V" without being told that it's a "V" and following some kind of herd mentality.
Let's set that aside.
What does it say that a group of professional designers are saying in comments of about 15 or 20-to-1 that the design is, at worst, a disaster and at best, dysfunctional. There are extra parts off the D that look like a face. The extraneous bits of D on the left (not counting the blue wing part) serve no function to the design. They made a font part of the brand identity. The line in the middle of the D is supposed to somehow convey a secret U that doesn't come off very well. The lines off the D are separate from the D itself for no good reason. It's chunky and heavy but supposed to convey fleetness.
I think that's a whole host of good critiques that don't include the "V". So let's discuss all of those.
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08-01-2014, 04:01 PM
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I just can’t figure out why anyone would be upset over a freaking logo. It’s a freaking logo people! Who really cares?
I actually think the administration did a great job here. You have to look at the big picture. It was important to start building the “Dayton” brand, not the UD brand. Why UD might have regional recognition it certainly doesn’t work at the national level. Go to other parts of the country and say, “I went to UD.” You’ll get all kinds of responses. Oh, you went to Delaware? Oh, you went to Denver? You get the picture. Why UD might have regional recognition, it’s nationally too confusing.
If “Dayton” wants to build a national brand it was important to differentiate and start selling Dayton as the brand name. Go to the A-10 website and look at all the different logos. The new logo looks good. You might not like it but it definitely stands out. Some of those other logos are so small or busy you can’t even read them. Our logo is simple and clean and with time it will become very recognizable. You’ll see the “Flying D” and think Dayton. It works.
I actually like the logo more everyday. Go look at many of the BCS logos. Most of them are simple letters like a block M or block O. They’re simple and classic. The “Flying D” is simple and classic, collegiate, and yet still has a current look. With every passing day, I like it more and more. I can’t wait to get a new hat, and t-shirt with a Flying D. I’ll be at the apparel table the first home game this year getting my new gear.
I think people are forgetting just how bad the old logo really was. How many years were spent bashing the sideways flying Dayton Flyer logo? It was terrible from day one. I liked the UD logo, but I also understand the need to move onto branding Dayton. The Flying D logo works. The new type set Dayton Flyer logo works too. Give it time people and lighten up a bit too.
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08-01-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I'm a bit confused by your posts THirt. First you insist there is no V, then you say you have knowledge of the process that everyone recognized there was a V from the start but decided the fans would choose not to see it. So the admin realized from early on there is a V that many here claim does not exist?
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First off, you're not accurately representing what I've said. I didn't say that everyone recognized there was a V. There is no V in the new logo. Period. It isn't a V. It isn't meant to represent a V. Is the left side of the logo shaped like a V? Sure, sorta, kinda.
My point in bringing this up is to note that this potential criticism was taken into consideration from what I understand. I don't think it's fair for others to say on one hand that "nobody" recognized it, nobody thought about it, nobody cared that it was a V (I'm paraphrasing posts from here and elsewhere on social media), and on the other hand, they thought about it and didn't care. Neither of those takes are accurate. AND you simply can't argue both. You can't simultaneously say "they" didn't see it and "they" saw it and didn't care.
What I said was that the so-called V was discussed and that UD gave its fans enough credit to realize that it was not a V. My opinion on it is this: "sure, I see how you could see that it looks like a V, but it isn't a V - it's a D with lines behind it meant to represent flying or forward motion." If that makes me a Kool-Aid drinker or whatever, that's fine. There is no V in the new logo. I don't think these statements are contradictory. If you operate from the false premise that there is a V and anyone who doesn't see it is an idiot, then, well, there's not much to discuss. I operate from the premise that it wasn't supposed to be a V, and just because it maybe-sorta-kinda looks like half a V doesn't make it a V.
And again, if you think that "killing" the logo that the head coach asked for, helped to develop, and endorses is a good idea, while saying those who don't want to do this are Kool-Aid drinkers, then, uh, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Just to be technical, they didn't necessarily change the logo. They changed the color of the logo painted on the Arena floor. The red and blue version of the logo isn't gone for good. Personally, I like it better in one color, and have said as much.
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08-01-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
What could the "agenda" possibly have been other than to produce the best logo for UD athletics? Whether or not they succeeded is a matter of opinion, clearly. But, the word "agenda" is being kicked around as if there was something unseemly going on, a plot of some sort, that was not in the best interests of our U. Does that make any sense?
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I'm waiting for the "trilateral commission" to work its way into this thread.
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08-01-2014, 06:28 PM
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I'm Now Interested...
in what this agenda is. My opinion, not that it matters any more than the hundreds of different opinions in this thread, is pretty simple. Some people resist change and don't like it. I'm not saying that is with all the naysayers or even the majority of them.
Overall though, I agree with Gem City. It's a frickin' logo. Nobody knows "UD" outside Ohio. Thanks to last year's team, a whole lot of people now know Dayton.
(I can't believe I posted again in this thread)
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08-01-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
First off, you're not accurately representing what I've said. I didn't say that everyone recognized there was a V. There is no V in the new logo. Period. It isn't a V. It isn't meant to represent a V. Is the left side of the logo shaped like a V? Sure, sorta, kinda.
My point in bringing this up is to note that this potential criticism was taken into consideration from what I understand. I don't think it's fair for others to say on one hand that "nobody" recognized it, nobody thought about it, nobody cared that it was a V (I'm paraphrasing posts from here and elsewhere on social media), and on the other hand, they thought about it and didn't care. Neither of those takes are accurate. AND you simply can't argue both. You can't simultaneously say "they" didn't see it and "they" saw it and didn't care.
What I said was that the so-called V was discussed and that UD gave its fans enough credit to realize that it was not a V. My opinion on it is this: "sure, I see how you could see that it looks like a V, but it isn't a V - it's a D with lines behind it meant to represent flying or forward motion." If that makes me a Kool-Aid drinker or whatever, that's fine. There is no V in the new logo. I don't think these statements are contradictory. If you operate from the false premise that there is a V and anyone who doesn't see it is an idiot, then, well, there's not much to discuss. I operate from the premise that it wasn't supposed to be a V, and just because it maybe-sorta-kinda looks like half a V doesn't make it a V.
And again, if you think that "killing" the logo that the head coach asked for, helped to develop, and endorses is a good idea, while saying those who don't want to do this are Kool-Aid drinkers, then, uh, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Just to be technical, they didn't necessarily change the logo. They changed the color of the logo painted on the Arena floor. The red and blue version of the logo isn't gone for good. Personally, I like it better in one color, and have said as much.
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I am not one that has gone off the deep end here. I don't think the logo is such a big deal. I'm just saying "you" can't say things like "if you see a V you are just looking for stupid reasons to justify that you hate the new logo" and silimultaneously say "the team working on it recognized from the beginning the potential for people to see a V." What you are saying is that yes, even the design team recognized that the stylized wing resembles a V, creating the sophomoric "we are VD" issue.
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08-01-2014, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
What you are saying is that yes, even the design team recognized that the stylized wing resembles a V, creating the sophomoric "we are VD" issue.
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Does it even rise to the level of "sophomoric"? It feels more 4th-gradish to me.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why some fans are absolutely petrified of another fanbase chanting "VD, VD". It's on the level of them chanting, "You guys are poopy faces. You guys are poopy faces!" It's so dumb that it is non-threatening to me.
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08-02-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
Does it even rise to the level of "sophomoric"? It feels more 4th-gradish to me.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why some fans are absolutely petrified of another fanbase chanting "VD, VD". It's on the level of them chanting, "You guys are poopy faces. You guys are poopy faces!" It's so dumb that it is non-threatening to me.
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It is nothing compared to X's rant regarding KW and the watermelon saga. Some opponents will stop at nothing to denigrate another.
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08-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
What does it say that a group of professional designers are saying in comments of about 15 or 20-to-1 that the design is, at worst, a disaster and at best, dysfunctional. There are extra parts off the D that look like a face. The extraneous bits of D on the left (not counting the blue wing part) serve no function to the design. They made a font part of the brand identity. The line in the middle of the D is supposed to somehow convey a secret U that doesn't come off very well. The lines off the D are separate from the D itself for no good reason. It's chunky and heavy but supposed to convey fleetness.
I think that's a whole host of good critiques that don't include the "V". So let's discuss all of those.
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I think, most of the designers in that forum feel that it is a bit of a missed opportunity. But it's also pretty clear that they think it's an improvement over the old one. Because it is. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been stronger though. The left edge of the 'd' has contributed to this whole 'v' issue, and it makes you think there's something more there than there really is.
A small tweak to it would both make the 'v' slightly less pointy and apparent, it would make the 'u' more apparent, and it would have the added benefit of creating a cross in the negative space of the logo as a nod to UD being a catholic institution.
I think rather than not getting input, there is such a thing as too much input. Trying to please too many people. Those who want a D as the primary mark. Those who insist 'UD' must be part of the logo. Those who want flight to be a key element of the design. Too many inputs leads to compromise. And that reminds me of this classic. If microsoft, who is notorious for 'too many inputs', had designed the iPod packaging. Check it out. This is what it's like being a graphic designer and listening to all the inputs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k
I like the look of the new court and agree that some blue around the sides of the court would look pretty sharp. I was also just playing with the idea of getting the silhouette of the Wright Flyer put into the finish of the wood. I think that would be kinda cool.
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08-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I am not one that has gone off the deep end here. I don't think the logo is such a big deal. I'm just saying "you" can't say things like "if you see a V you are just looking for stupid reasons to justify that you hate the new logo" and silimultaneously say "the team working on it recognized from the beginning the potential for people to see a V." What you are saying is that yes, even the design team recognized that the stylized wing resembles a V, creating the sophomoric "we are VD" issue.
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Now I'm the one that is confused. I have several lengthy posts on this thread and you quoted one in your most recent post. I have not said anything resembling your first quote - I have said there is no V, and I stand by that. I have specifically said that I can see how some could see it is a V (it isn't). I have not said that if you're seeing a V, you're just looking for a reason to hate it. Others have said something to that effect, but I haven't. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I get that the use of quotes around "you" means you were not necessarily directing those statements to "me" but I have not seen anyone simultaneously arguing the two things that you are saying you cannot argue simultaneously.
What I was saying was that the design team recognized that it could look like a V, but gave the fans the benefit of the doubt to recognize that it was not a V.
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08-02-2014, 10:35 AM
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I know at least one vendor got an order a week and a half after the new logo came out, and the entire order was for the old logo.
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08-02-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt
What I was saying was that the design team recognized that it could look like a V, but gave the fans the benefit of the doubt to recognize that it was not a V.
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The second the design team realized it could be seen as a V common sense should have taken over and they should have fixed that issue - and issue it is.
7 pages in this thread alone prove it is an issue - the repainting of the floor shows it is an issue - and that loyal Alumns are refusing to buy new UD gear with the logo is a real issue. Sorry the design team F'd up big time. Be it they were incompetent or just arrogant - reality is many see the V - and when they saw the V at the design phase common sense would have been to say - "You know what VD is not a good logo - lets try something different".
So again if they realized this at the design phase shame on them for moving forward.
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Mad Props to podcast411 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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08-02-2014, 10:39 AM
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Major
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
I know at least one vendor got an order a week and a half after the new logo came out, and the entire order was for the old logo.
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Can you share their info - good to know where to get something I am proud to wear.
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08-02-2014, 11:38 AM
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2nd Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by THirt
I have not said that if you're seeing a V, you're just looking for a reason to hate it. Others have said something to that effect, but I haven't.
Posted via Mobile Device
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I said "Some also try to find problems where none really exist", but I was not trying to say that there is no way for a reasonable person to see a V. Maybe I should have said something to the effect that some are making mountains out of mole hills. It is just a logo.
I have no real concern what X fans or any other immature fans would say. And if the new brand is not successful, I am sure we can have another interesting, productive "discussion" over the next one.
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Mad Props to Sarge For This Totally Excellent Post:
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08-02-2014, 12:29 PM
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Major
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We are all at once ripping off the Philadelphia Flyers, Detroit Tigers/ Duquesne and Ohio State and doing a rather poor job of it. The worst part? We are in a better place now (I know others feel very differently). I hated the old cartoon logo/ slanted Dayton Flyers so much I can't work up too much outrage over this look. I think our uniforms in particular will be much more appealing to recruits (and despite the declarations of others on here to the contrary, this stuff makes a huge difference).
I guess my biggest complaint is what in the world is that D? The quasi old English script (or whatever we are calling it) is dumb. The "wing" just hangs there and is weird and clearly resembles a V. The logo has nothing to do with our tradition, history or namesake. I guess we are no longer UD? I really hope our own students chant "we are VD" on national TV just to see the administrations bumbling reaction.
Everything you need to know about our cutting edge admin came straight from Chris R - no one liked the old logo/branding but approved it anyway way back when and have not changed it since because why not. And why did they change now? Because a new unproven coach asked for it (justifiably in my opinion)? These are not the actions of a forward looking admin. My biggest fear of last years run is that they would take it as validation for the past 30 years of buffoonery. Wabs is the last guy I wanted running this effort. And the execution of this effort has been consistent with their past 30 years of execution. The defenders including Chris R are ignoring the 80 plus percent disapproval survey from the Dayton community. That is a staggering result. You have to try to do that poorly.
And I like Archie, but I don't think anyone should want a man whose staple look is pleated khakis and polo shirts running a marketing/rebranding effort.
End of the day, I like it better but I won't buy any of it. Huge missed opportunity but what else can you expect from this administration.
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08-02-2014, 01:16 PM
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I really like the Wright Flyer silhouette, I would LOVE it if UD did this. A lot of programs are doing funky things to their floors/adding silhouettes to their floors now, it seems like this is the current/hip thing to do.
Xavier is adding a silhouette of the Cincinnati skyline to their floor this summer.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...line/13430151/
Last edited by ud2; 08-02-2014 at 01:18 PM..
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08-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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Re last sentence....
Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth
.....but what else can you expect from this administration.
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Re your last sentence, in your opinion, specifically, what else has "this administration" screwed up?
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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08-02-2014, 04:36 PM
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General
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Flyer95, that is very cool
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08-02-2014, 06:11 PM
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Major
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Re your last sentence, in your opinion, specifically, what else has "this administration" screwed up?
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Other than the past 30 plus years? Probably more.
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