Attorney: Dayton's Pierre will fight suspension

[UDPride SportsBot]

Attorney: Dayton's Pierre will fight suspension

Rest of the story...

[NorthwestFlyer]

Hell Ya!

[Avid Flyer]

Unfortunately the U's position on this could have far reaching implications, not only on the recruiting trail but in keeping AM, should he and the recruits feel this is way over reaching by the U. Someone at the U didn't really think this all the way through, just my opinion but there is nothing presented to substantiate the punishment.

[CE80]

Dez Wells says hi.

[THirt]

This is the best thread ever started by the sports bot.

None of us really know all the facts, but man, from what I have read, he has every right to appeal this and I hope he wins.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CJ43]

Love it. Obviously don't know the full story but if the police didn't think there was enough evidence I don't believe the University should get involved.

[NorthwestFlyer]

This is going to get really messy for UD. Looks like a knee jerk reaction to past problems they didn't react to quickly enough. Basically they are suspending DP for a reported assault by he friends, days later. Holds water like a sieve.

I thought sometime ago I read on this board that sex was against the student code of conduct if any alcohol was involved. Am I remembering this correctly?

[FlyerNation23]

During his appeal, can he attend classes again? Maybe Tom Brady can share some advice on how to win appeals.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Unfortunately the U's position on this could have far reaching implications, not only on the recruiting trail but in keeping AM, should he and the recruits feel this is way over reaching by the U. Someone at the U didn't really think this all the way through, just my opinion but there is nothing presented to substantiate the punishment.

And the words I am hearing explaining the p!sstivity from AM....I could definitely interpret this as the U and the basketball program not being on the same page. This all makes sense...knee jerk reaction...

The last thing that UD wants to do is create animosity with a great coach...if it comes out that they did that...they can get F'd.

Virtual dumpster fire. New faces to blame for the evident outcome. Current administration doesn't have to deal with the fallout of this one...this ought to be a nice soap opera....light the fire and walk away.

I hope Mr. Pierre runs this one right up the collective ass of the University of Dayton. They didn't put the smack down hard enough in the past and knee jerk future incidents.

I don't know who is to blame for the horse abortion we have witnessed the last couple years with how athletes/investigations/crimes/policy violations/records/etc...but I am sick and tired of it. Someone put a tent on this circus...this gong show is something else.

[FlyerNation23]

I'm worried that this might result in him never playing for UD again....

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Unfortunately the U's position on this could have far reaching implications, not only on the recruiting trail but in keeping AM, should he and the recruits feel this is way over reaching by the U. Someone at the U didn't really think this all the way through, just my opinion but there is nothing presented to substantiate the punishment.

This is exactly what my thoughts have been for the past couple days. This basketball program is special, very special and should be respected by the school. Knee-jerk reactions after long periods of inaction should never come into play.

If this is what it's appearing to be, they've probably cut the lifeline of having AM as our coach down to a year or two more at most. Put yourself in his shoes. You are the number one coach to be sought after by the big schools that will need one. You stay at Dayton because building them into a powerhouse is golden on a resume forever. And then, after a season of pulling off miracles with 7 players, he has what looks like that team he's been trying to build since he got here. Then some out of touch higher ups decide to chop off your star senior because there's a .00000000001 percent chance that this could come back to bite them in the butt. I'd be out of here the first chance I could get.

This needs to be corrected yesterday.

[Columbia Blue]

surely UD consulted with its attorneys before taking the disciplinary action. SURELY?

i want to believe dyshawn is innocent until proven guilty. at the same time, where there's smoke, there's usually fire ... our players need to realize their visibility, use good judgment at all times, and look out for each other. i, for one, would rather go back to the NIT with high-character kids if forced to choose.

let's hope for a swift, amicable and sensible resolution -- and great season. GO FLYERS!

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation23 During his appeal, can he attend classes again? Maybe Tom Brady can share some advice on how to win appeals.

I would assume a court would have to issue an injunction for him to get back on campus.

[Atlantic 10]

Big time attorney in Ginsberg, who shelled this money out

[Sea Bass]

The issue is not about the basketball program or AM. What is the right thing to do? It seems as if UD overreacted here but I do know that to be true.

Screw Title IX, PC and all that other crap and just do the right thing, whatever that happens to be.

[N2663R]

Just thinking out loud here, but this happened under Wabler's watch. I just wonder if this had anything to do with his departure? Maybe he disagreed with the U's handling of the situation or direction of the resolution?

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[shocka43]

This isn't your everyday Rion and Rion...

http://www.prglaw.com/attorneys.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/r...128-story.html

Guy was involved with Dez Wells...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...suit/2679807//

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...suit/2679807//

Wonder how DP got in touch with him? AM calls his brother who has knowledge of the Dez Wells incident...? DP has a big dog attorney....

If UD did AM on this deal to where AM is seeking legal counsel for his players...you can say bye bye to AM the first ticket out...DP didn't just stumble across this legal team.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 This isn't your everyday Rion and Rion... http://www.prglaw.com/attorneys.html

There's really only one Rion & Rion! Thank God! LOL

[C-time]

Ginsberg is the lawyer who handled the Dez Wells lawsuit against Xavier.

Looks like Shocka43 beat me to this while I was googling the info.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan There's really only one Rion & Rion! Thank God! LOL

I love those guys....Innocent until proven broke...motion after motion until you have no more money...then plea...I love the court overtime!!!

[Sea Bass]

well if the situation plays out like the Wells saga he will be playing basketball for someone else before the year is over.

Seems to me the only way he ends up playing for the Flyers is if UD reverses course and vacates his suspension.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I love those guys....Innocent until proven broke...motion after motion until you have no more money...then plea...I love the court overtime!!!

Preachin' to the choir--------you are absolutely right!

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass well if the situation plays out like the Wells saga he will be playing basketball for someone else before the year is over. Seems to me the only way he ends up playing for the Flyers is if UD reverses course and vacates his suspension.

Agree Sea Bass, unless something happens quickly I look for DP to be playing elsewhere. As school has already started he may have to sit and play later, in any case I think he may have played his last game for the Flyers.

[TommyGola]

This is a prime example of good intentions gone awry. Unfortunately, every allegation holds water and somebody in the university didn't have the cajones to stop this nonsense in its tracks. No more innocent until proven guilty with the sexual assault. All you have to do is say it occurred and then ruin a kid's last year of college. This stinks to high heaven.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation23 I'm worried that this might result in him never playing for UD again....

I can see that being true. More than likely this is a huge turning point for the U and a day which we will recall as such. This is more growing pains, but in my opinion a few steps backwards are on the horizon.

[FlyerNation23]

He has also represented Ray Rice and Jonathan Vilma. I believe he called out Roger Goddell as a fraud many times, this guy has a great track record. I think he would ultimately win the case, but not in time for Pierre to play at UD. Sad to see a special career go down like this. I hope the truth comes out and he gets his name cleared. Hopefully a miracle happens and he plays for us and not for another team

[Ready Action]

Even Roger Goodell is shocked by this turn of events.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Ready Action Even Roger Goodell is shocked by this turn of events.

Is he going to suspend the University of Dayton?

[ud2]

There were 3 lawsuits against the University of Cincinnati in the last year that sound similar to this...all 3 lawsuits resulted in the university dismissing the three cases and dropping all charges against the 3 students.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

OK, struggling to find a reason UD did this...

Could UD's hands be tied by Title IX Bullcrap? I have no idea, but find this part of the quote from the attorney interesting.

the University of Dayton subjected Dyshawn to fundamentally defective and unfair University disciplinary procedures orchestrated to appease a broken Department of Education policy. We will be challenging the University's handling of this matter in the near future.

Could this eventually end up as being more a challange to department of education policy, and not so much UD?

Bed time here, someone tell me in the morning that I might be onto something and that the UD basketball world is not about to crumble.

[Columbia Blue]

why was pierre removed from team roster page?

http://www.daytonflyers.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Columbia Blue why was pierre removed from team roster page? http://www.daytonflyers.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

Because he is technically not a student at the moment which means he is not a player on the men's basketball team.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan OK, struggling to find a reason UD did this... Could UD's hands be tied by Title IX Bullcrap? I have no idea, but find this part of the quote from the attorney interesting. the University of Dayton subjected Dyshawn to fundamentally defective and unfair University disciplinary procedures orchestrated to appease a broken Department of Education policy. We will be challenging the University's handling of this matter in the near future. Could this eventually end up as being more a challange to department of education policy, and not so much UD? Bed time here, someone tell me in the morning that I might be onto something and that the UD basketball world is not about to crumble.

Title IX, in and of itself, is not the problem. It's actually a very good thing that has done far more good than bad. It prevents sex based discrimination (both men and women) at educational institutions that receive federal funding, and is applied very broadly. If women are only allowed to eat in one dining hall, but men can eat wherever they want, that's a Title IX violation. If women are allowed to register before men, that's a Title IX violation. If men are required to have roommates and women are not, that's a Title IX violation.

The one most people know about is athletics. If there is a disproportionate number of opportunities for men to receive scholarships and participate in athletics as compared to women, this is a Title IX violation.

Now, if a woman is the victim of a sexual assault and is systematically prevented from pursuing outside legal action and/or disciplinary action within the school, that is considered discriminatory (and rightfully so), and therefore a Title IX violation. For a long period of times, campuses were very concerned with crime rates. They wanted the numbers down. What a lot of them started doing was handling things internally that should have been handled by actual law enforcement, and this included sexual assault. Some universities actually had it written into their policies that counselors, campus police, and university officials were not to call the police if someone came to them and reported sexual assault, and would take other measures to basically try and cover it up rather than deal with it. So, after several decades (at least) we finally started to see some of these federal probes at several universities. This was a good thing. Much of what they found was appalling.

But, now the problem is that schools have gone off the deep end at the other end of the pool. Instead of having proper due process for both the victim and the accused, many have just started to kick students out of school who are accused of any sort of sexual misconduct without any sort of due process. That's why students who have pursued legal action have been winning their case. I don't blame Title IX for this. I blame the schools and the university officials for continuing to stupidly handle sexual misconduct.

Now, there are perhaps some very overzealous and agenda driven Title IX coordinators out there, but still. Title IX coordinators are university employees who have other duties (oftentimes in student affairs) who are appointed to that position. So, I still look at that as being on the schools and not Title IX in and of itself.

It's not fair to deny someone due process. A person who is accused should not be guilty until proven innocent. Colleges that do this set themselves up for getting sued and losing. With that being said...

It's not fair to deny someone due process. A person who is claiming to be a victim should not be considered a liar until proven truthful. It's a good way to not only get sued and lose, but to create an environment that feels very unsafe for a lot of people.

University officials, and I guess people in general, typically do one or the other, and in my opinion are a part of the problem. That has nothing to do with Title IX.

...and just to be clear, I'm only speaking in generalities. I don't know anything about this particular case.

[Buster Goode]

Overall, this is just a horrible situation. From the high-level detail that I know, I'd be fighting this tooth and nail as well if I were DP. Unfortunately, I think the best case scenario for DP is that he's back on 12/22 and that won't eliminate the mud he will still be dragged through.

In a perfect world, if he's innocent, fights this and can win in a timely manner (snicker...courts, attorneys are a joke), he should be back on the team immediately.

[Gem City]

What does the Duke Lacrosse, UVA Faternity, and Dez Wells cases all have in common? False accusations and a lack of due process for the accused.

Lives and reputations can now be ruined by mere accusations and the accused is assumed guilty and must prove their innocence. On top of that the accusers are often protected from the consequences of leveling false accusations.

[jumpin' joe]

Wow!
I'm not big into conspiracy theories, but it certainly appears that...
Tim Wabler resigned/retired in protest because of the DP ruling.
Dan Curran is a lame duck President riding out into the sunset.
Archie is totally ticked about the ruling and this will be his last season coaching at UD
Dyshawn Pierre has played his last game at UD.

This is going to get very very messy as if it already isn't a big mess.

Is there more to the story? For UD Administration's sake there better be or several heads will roll.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[ud2]

I'm not so sure about all the speculation about Archie leaving over this, I think Mack was ticked with the Wells case, but he stayed, these things happen, these systems aren't perfect, hopefully Archie can deal with that. My comments are obviously predicated on Pierre being completely innocent.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by shocka43 And the words I am hearing explaining the p!sstivity from AM....I could definitely interpret this as the U and the basketball program not being on the same page. This all makes sense...knee jerk reaction... The last thing that UD wants to do is create animosity with a great coach...if it comes out that they did that...they can get F'd. Virtual dumpster fire. New faces to blame for the evident outcome. Current administration doesn't have to deal with the fallout of this one...this ought to be a nice soap opera....light the fire and walk away. I hope Mr. Pierre runs this one right up the collective ass of the University of Dayton. They didn't put the smack down hard enough in the past and knee jerk future incidents. I don't know who is to blame for the horse abortion we have witnessed the last couple years with how athletes/investigations/crimes/policy violations/records/etc...but I am sick and tired of it. Someone put a tent on this circus...this gong show is something else.

Dumpster fire, horse abortion, gong show. The euphemisms alone make this one of the best posts I've read in awhile.

The sad fact is, the f-bomb has been dropped in front of mom. There's really no walking this back. The U will hold fast to its position (they'd look completely spineless if they reinstated Pierre now, plus they'd drown in the public relations tsunami that would hit them for folding on an alleged sexual assault case). Meanwhile, Pierre sits on the sidelines (not really, he can't even get back on campus) and rots for a semester. Does anyone really think Pierre will want to don the red uni with a big "DAYTON" on the front after this, especially if he is innocent? Hanging in the balance is Pierre's pro career (he's an dark horse NBA draft pick) and the impact this ill-conceived suspension would have on that eventuality. That translates to $$$$$ in a lawsuit that is sure to follow. My guess is Pierre & his lawyer are doing this not to get reinstated (I'd be shocked to see him not be picked up by another school in the next six weeks), but to lay the foundation for said lawsuit. So, to recap, Dayton faces an epic public relations nightmare for both its decision to suspend Pierre and the guaranteed counter punch Pierre is now throwing. They'll 1) lose Pierre; 2) alienate their coach; 3) alienate other players/future recruits; 4) probably lose money in court; 5) jeopardize what was a promising season.

If this is a horse abortion, it was done with a chainsaw.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe Wow! I'm not big into conspiracy theories, but it certainly appears that... Tim Wabler resigned/retired in protest because of the DP ruling. Dan Curran is a lame duck President riding out into the sunset. Archie is totally ticked about the ruling and this will be his last season coaching at UD Dyshawn Pierre has played his last game at UD. This is going to get very very messy as if it already isn't a big mess. Is there more to the story? For UD Administration's sake there better be or several heads will roll.

I'm not into conspiracies much either, but you may be on to something. There's always bumps in the road when your trying to reach the highest level, but this one may set the program back several years.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Sea Bass]

His suspension came down in September, that is why he was removed from the campus. Not removing a deemed "guilty" person is what got XU in trouble before the Wells case. They found a couple of male students "guilty" but let them finish the semester when they were supposed to immediately remove them. In the two cases I remember both of the female "victims" were still on campus as well.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass His suspension...

Was he 'suspended'? I'm confused.


I thought Pierre withdrew voluntarily to avoid being officially suspended, so how can he sue to get reinstated?? And since he did break the Code of Conduct by hooking up with a female who had been drinking (and cannot give consent), I think the whole 'lawyer-up' thing is more for show than actually being a serious move to get a new 'trial'.

Regardless, I still think he's getting screwed.

[Sea Bass]

There is no way this ends well for UD. If they try to backtrack and remove his suspension they are inviting a federal investigation (like the one XU got before the Wells incident) and if they don't they will fight a lawsuit they will likely lose while doing damage to their basketball program and likely having a very negative impact on donations.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Sea Bass]

"Dayton senior Dyshawn Pierre, a double-digit scorer last season, is not enrolled in classes this semester because of a suspension caused by another student accusing him of sexual assault in May,"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ult-allegation

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Was he 'suspended'? I'm confused. I thought Pierre withdrew voluntarily to avoid being officially suspended, so how can he sue to get reinstated?? And since he did break the Code of Conduct by hooking up with a female who had been drinking (and cannot give consent), I think the whole 'lawyer-up' thing is more for show than actually being a serious move to get a new 'trial'. Regardless, I still think he's getting screwed.

He is not completely, 100% innocent if that is the case, he broke the code of conduct.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass "Dayton senior Dyshawn Pierre, a double-digit scorer last season, is not enrolled in classes this semester because of a suspension caused by another student accusing him of sexual assault in May,"

That was CBS's words, not UD's...

Here is what UD said....

"Senior Dyshawn Pierre will not play basketball for the University of Dayton during the fall semester, the university announced Sunday. Pierre, the team’s leading returning scorer and rebounder, is not enrolled at UD for the fall semester, said Bill Fischer, the university’s vice president for student development, in a statement."

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by ud2 He is not completely, 100% innocent if that is the case, he broke the code of conduct.

I wonder how many intoxicated students had relations in the last 6 months? That, in itself, is where the problem lis and the inconsistent application of civil rules/policies.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Dumpster fire, horse abortion, gong show. The euphemisms alone make this one of the best posts I've read in awhile. The sad fact is, the f-bomb has been dropped in front of mom. There's really no walking this back. The U will hold fast to its position (they'd look completely spineless if they reinstated Pierre now, plus they'd drown in the public relations tsunami that would hit them for folding on an alleged sexual assault case). Meanwhile, Pierre sits on the sidelines (not really, he can't even get back on campus) and rots for a semester. Does anyone really think Pierre will want to don the red uni with a big "DAYTON" on the front after this, especially if he is innocent? Hanging in the balance is Pierre's pro career (he's an dark horse NBA draft pick) and the impact this ill-conceived suspension would have on that eventuality. That translates to $$$$$ in a lawsuit that is sure to follow. My guess is Pierre & his lawyer are doing this not to get reinstated (I'd be shocked to see him not be picked up by another school in the next six weeks), but to lay the foundation for said lawsuit. So, to recap, Dayton faces an epic public relations nightmare for both its decision to suspend Pierre and the guaranteed counter punch Pierre is now throwing. They'll 1) lose Pierre; 2) alienate their coach; 3) alienate other players/future recruits; 4) probably lose money in court; 5) jeopardize what was a promising season.

It probably is in DP's best interest to try to get reinstated prior to the start of the season if he indeed is a dark horse NBA pick. Rolling the dice on another team is too much of a long shot.

So, my long shot hopeful theory is: DP's attorney will very quickly get all the parties in a room and say, look, since this incident was fully vetted by local law enforcement and no crime was detected and no charges were filed, UD, you need to reinstate DP. If not, we will file the appropriate suits against you. Miss "X", the same goes for you. You need to be prepared to defend yourself publicly for your accusations, and believe me it will be very public. UD and its reps and Miss "X" and her family and reps will go into a room and come out with a solution. That solution will be that Miss"X" will recant her story/allegations and UD will reinstate DP and we will win the A10 championship, make it to the Elite 8, and DP will get drafted into the NBA.
What? . . It could happen.

IMHO this all hinges on Miss "X" not wanting to become a public figure. Right now she is protected by the fact that no charges have been filed. Once DP files suit, all bets are of and you are looking huge mess personally and financially. The fact that DP hired a nationally recognized pit bull, sends a huge message to everyone involved.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This is exactly what my thoughts have been for the past couple days. This basketball program is special, very special and should be respected by the school. Knee-jerk reactions after long periods of inaction should never come into play. If this is what it's appearing to be, they've probably cut the lifeline of having AM as our coach down to a year or two more at most. Put yourself in his shoes. You are the number one coach to be sought after by the big schools that will need one. You stay at Dayton because building them into a powerhouse is golden on a resume forever. And then, after a season of pulling off miracles with 7 players, he has what looks like that team he's been trying to build since he got here. Then some out of touch higher ups decide to chop off your star senior because there's a .00000000001 percent chance that this could come back to bite them in the butt. I'd be out of here the first chance I could get. This needs to be corrected yesterday.

As a friend of mine was told at work the other day, "you need to un-f**k this situation immediately."

Come on, a 10 game suspension for hooking up with a chick that was drinking? 10 games??? If this was a _avier player I would still say that's out of control. The whole situation (on-campus sexual assault) is totally out of control. I'll add the following to horse abortion and gong show: left-ditch-right-ditch. Things get out of control on one side so the response is to overcorrect into the other ditch.

And this is clearly a ditch.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I wonder how many intoxicated students had relations in the last 6 months? That, in itself, is where the problem lis and the inconsistent application of civil rules/policies.

Don't disagree! Seriously, if a beer means a man or women at UD can't "consent" to have sex--------man a lot of folks on campus now and in past years would be "guilty" of the same thing!

The part where the room mates called the cops is especially disconcerting-----on some levels! Glad they were there for the girl (if she truly needed it) but man how many folks have left Tim's/Flanagan's over the years and spent the night with another person who was having a beer(s) at the bar to have "consensual" sex?

Again, I know there are those on all college campuses that can't really be trusted (honestly males and females)-----but not sure what to think about this?

And what about letting the kid enroll and start classes before making it official? I guess if the "committee" who handles these "issues" on campus had no more meetings because it was summer that would explain the screw job this looks to be on some levels-----but come on!

[rollo]

How can he be reinstated if he's not taking classes? First things first, he needs to be enrolled and until then he CAN'T be placed on the active roster.

So the question now becomes 'can you enroll 5 weeks into a semester? I teach at Sinclair and UD and have never heard of it happening.

But I hope there's a loophole somewhere that allows this.
Posted via Mobile Device

[udstevied_D87]

Plain and simple, this is a mess. Even if he is vindicated, which I think he will be, I don't see him suiting up for UD again. For all the positivity coming off of last years run, this is a dagger

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by rollo That was CBS's words, not UD's... Here is what UD said.... "Senior Dyshawn Pierre will not play basketball for the University of Dayton during the fall semester, the university announced Sunday. Pierre, the team’s leading returning scorer and rebounder, is not enrolled at UD for the fall semester, said Bill Fischer, the university’s vice president for student development, in a statement."

This is a lie by the university, he was enrolled. His classes were not dropped till last week

[GoFlyer]

This whole situation strikes me as "Be careful what you wish for" . . . Go back to the UDPride posts on Kav, Robinson and Scott. Oh yes, big conspiracy talk about how UD hid the problems, the administration was looking the other way, the students were getting away with horrible things, double standard, awful behavior being hidden . . . . . innuendo, innuendo, innuendo.

Now some of the same posters are screaming this is unfair. Geez people . . if you push someone into a corner they come out fighting. In this case . . .the "fight" is perhaps over-reaction. If that is true, don't we all share some of the blame? And a student athlete's reputation has been tarnished and his future compromised.

[FlyerNation23]

Originally Posted by rollo How can he be reinstated if he's not taking classes? First things first, he needs to be enrolled and until then he CAN'T be placed on the active roster. So the question now becomes 'can you enroll 5 weeks into a semester? I teach at Sinclair and UD and have never heard of it happening. But I hope there's a loophole somewhere that allows this. Posted via Mobile Device

UD did not provide a correct statement for the fall semester.

2 Weeks ago: Pierre was listed on the active roster on DaytonFlyers.com

3 Weeks ago: Maurice Clarett was on campus and providing a speech to the team. The DaytonTrueTeam Instagram account posted a picture of the team and Pierre was included

4 Weeks ago: The DaytonTrueTeam Instagram account posted a picture of the firs team meeting and Pierre was included

Also, Pierre was at the Dr Levitt UD Athletics event a few weeks ago.

On September 6,8,and 16 - Pierre was tweeting about UD and the upcoming bball season.

Pierre was enrolled in classes, attending team events, and working out with the team. He has probably only missed class for 3-4 days.

[College B-Ball Fan]

https://www.udayton.edu/legalaffairs/contacts.php

There have been multiple "issues" that have made both the national news and local news over the past several years? Most of "it" hasn't been "good news" either-------you start to wonder who is advising the president, etc. on these matters?

Maybe the good Dr. Needs to look elsewhere? This whole situation seems to have been mis- handled on some levels?

[Sea Bass]

I see his hiring of an attorney as a sign of two things
1) He is not planning on returning to UD
2) He wants his name cleared

[N2663R]

Does anyone see any way DP rejoins the team before the beginning of the season short of Miss "X" recanting her story/allegations?

UD police and Dayton police have presumably gathered and reviewed all of the available evidence pertinent to this incident. Miss "X" claims what she claims. DP claims what he claims. UD makes there decision (right or wrong) based on the evaluation of the claims and the evidence and the police evaluations. So unless something new pops up -or- Miss "X" recants, this will drag on past the beginning of the season.

UD is not going to change its decision based on the fact that DP hired an attorney. The hiring of an attorney forces UD and Miss "X" to defend their positions, and that will take time.

[TA111]

Originally Posted by ud2 He is not completely, 100% innocent if that is the case, he broke the code of conduct.

Just because you have been drinking doesn't mean you are "intoxicated".

[TA111]

The good news is this shows he really wants back on the team. Otherwise he would just leave and go somewhere else.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by TA111 The good news is this shows he really wants back on the team. Otherwise he would just leave and go somewhere else.

I hope that is the case! Hope there is a way for UD and DP to "save face" soon so we can go back to looking forward to the season!

[Sea Bass]

I see hiring an attorney as a way to get the NCAA to grant a waiver (like they did for Wells), it didn't get Well reinstated at XU.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I wonder how many intoxicated students had relations in the last 6 months? That, in itself, is where the problem lis and the inconsistent application of civil rules/policies.

Then wouldn't the school (University of Dayton) be guilty of allowing and providing an environment where these kind of activities happen. UD is well known for its frat parties and kegs of beer.

So how can a school provide an environment where such activities take place on campus then turn around and punish students for partaking and doing what come naturally.

DP's attorney could really turn this against the U and make them an accessory to breaking the student code of conduct.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by N2663R Does anyone see any way DP rejoins the team before the beginning of the season short of Miss "X" recanting her story/allegations? UD police and Dayton police have presumably gathered and reviewed all of the available evidence pertinent to this incident. Miss "X" claims what she claims. DP claims what he claims. UD makes there decision (right or wrong) based on the evaluation of the claims and the evidence and the police evaluations. So unless something new pops up -or- Miss "X" recants, this will drag on past the beginning of the season. UD is not going to change its decision based on the fact that DP hired an attorney. The hiring of an attorney forces UD and Miss "X" to defend their positions, and that will take time.

Her initial statements were that she was not raped but she felt afterward that it was inappropriate. that is why she did not report it. To her she was not raped, but her friends felt differently and reported it, she did not report it.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by TA111 The good news is this shows he really wants back on the team. Otherwise he would just leave and go somewhere else.

Think this has higher asperations to it like getting ready for the NBA. Does Dayton play a part in that, hope so but I would suspect the NBA is the higher goal.

[rollo]

It takes a lot to get me fired up, and this is no exception!

[Sea Bass]

he wants to play basketball, be it UD or somewhere else if has to.

[FlyerNation23]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass I see hiring an attorney as a way to get the NCAA to grant a waiver (like they did for Wells), it didn't get Well reinstated at XU.

Wells still had to still out a year. If Pierre is looking to play bball this year, UD would be on the only school he could do it at

[Avid Flyer]

I know I am down on the U right now (lack of due process) but perhaps their hand was forced by the decision of the student board and fear of reprisal of the Feds. Could they save face by acknowledging that due process was not afforded the accused and take a step back reinstating DP and letting the process play out. It is going into the legal system now, and the girl will no longer be anonymous. All details, including her original statements and the details of the student counsel will be brought to light.

Perhaps the fact she will possibly be skewered in the courts, media and message boards could persuade her to reconsider her position.

[Sea Bass]

Wells did not sit a year. He left X after the spring semester and played for Maryland in the fall. NCAA granted him a waiver.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cbk/....asp?id=109448

[Flyer69ers]

I am 100% in DP's corner and hope he is 100% exonerated.

But I cannot fault the University for erring on the side of "the law" (???)
and the University's "image"
while this is being sorted out.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 This is a lie by the university, he was enrolled. His classes were not dropped till last week

No it's not. It is all about timing. When the statement was put out, DP was not enrolled. He had been enrolled and was going to class, but at the time of the statement he was not a student. Granted it all happened at light speed but the statement as given was correct.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass Wells did not sit a year. He left X after the spring semester and played for Maryland in the fall. NCAA granted him a waiver. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cbk/....asp?id=109448

Timing was better for Wells as far as playing for another team. DP could follow that route but the timing is poor. He could sit this year and play a full year somewhere else. In any case his return to the Flyers is up in the air to say the least.

[Sea Bass]

It would seem unlikely he could get a waiver and get enrolled at another school in time to play in the fall semester. However, he could get a waiver to play starting after the fall semester. If it was a school on quarters he could probably start playing in early December.

If he waits for UD he may not be reinstated to play.

[xubrew]

The rule is that you have to complete a full academic year at a school before you can play. So, even if he sits out this entire year, he'd still have to sit out another year if he were to go to another school and start in the Fall. And, by then his five year clock will have run out and he'd lose the year of eligibility anyway.

He could probably get some sort of waiver for this, though, if he were to pursue it. He broke no NCAA rules, and he did not initiate a transfer. The school initiated it when they prevented him from enrolling. As ironic as this is, when it comes to getting a waiver it's far better to be expelled from school than to quit a team or to transfer out on your own so long as you're not being expelled for a reason that also violates NCAA rules. If the school he transferred to filed a waiver to get the residency waived, the NCAA would probably grant it. They usually do.

[FlyerNation23]

So is this case Pierre vs the girl or Pierre vs UD now? I am assuming since the charges were not filed in June, they cannot come back to light now? So Pierre is looking at 4 scenarios:

- Suspension removed - eligible to play now
- Suspension stays - eligible to play Dec 22 for UD (is this even in play still?)
- Waiver granted - eligible to play in December or next year with a new team
- Name cleared - plays professional ball next year

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation23 So is this case Pierre vs the girl or Pierre vs UD now? I am assuming since the charges were not filed in June, they cannot come back to light now? So Pierre is looking at 4 scenarios: - Suspension removed - eligible to play now - Suspension stays - eligible to play Dec 22 for UD (is this even in play still?) - Waiver granted - eligible to play in December or next year with a new team - Name cleared - plays professional ball next year

I'm not an attorney, however I have heard of several investigations being re-opened and people being charged as "new" or "more" information has come to light. So resolution to this situation may be a ways off.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Her initial statements were that she was not raped but she felt afterward that it was inappropriate. that is why she did not report it. To her she was not raped, but her friends felt differently and reported it, she did not report it.

If this truly is the case, UD over thought this and Dyshawn is getting screwed - no pun intended.

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer I know I am down on the U right now (lack of due process) but perhaps their hand was forced by the decision of the student board and fear of reprisal of the Feds. Could they save face by acknowledging that due process was not afforded the accused and take a step back reinstating DP and letting the process play out. It is going into the legal system now, and the girl will no longer be anonymous. All details, including her original statements and the details of the student counsel will be brought to light. Perhaps the fact she will possibly be skewered in the courts, media and message boards could persuade her to reconsider her position.

That was the whole point of my original post (#57). The woman involved has a short window of time to recant, or she will open herself up to public scrutiny and will have to defend herself publicly, and will have to accept all responsibility for her accusations. If she recants, it gives UD an out to reverse its decision and we all move on.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by xubrew The rule is that you have to complete a full academic year at a school before you can play. So, even if he sits out this entire year, he'd still have to sit out another year if he were to go to another school and start in the Fall. And, by then his five year clock will have run out and he'd lose the year of eligibility anyway. He could probably get some sort of waiver for this, though, if he were to pursue it. He broke no NCAA rules, and he did not initiate a transfer. The school initiated it when they prevented him from enrolling. As ironic as this is, when it comes to getting a waiver it's far better to be expelled from school than to quit a team or to transfer out on your own so long as you're not being expelled for a reason that also violates NCAA rules. If the school he transferred to filed a waiver to get the residency waived, the NCAA would probably grant it. They usually do.

True.

I think Pierre is probably looking to explore his NBA options. So i doubt he transfers or sits a year.

I predict he will play Dec 22nd and on, and finish out with us this Year.

GO FLYERS!!

[steve]

Originally Posted by TA111 The good news is this shows he really wants back on the team. Otherwise he would just leave and go somewhere else.

What it means, first and foremost, is he wants his name cleared and cleared NOW. Doubt another team takes him until this gets cleared. And he ain't happy with UD at this point with this measure..This ain't the legal team of schmuckstein, schmuckstein, and schmuckstein. DP simply wants his name back in good graces and then he wants to play for "a" team and that won't happen until an important UD official takes the horses' ass mask off and admits they're wrong or, rather, were too presumptuous.

[Iguomaniac]

Another option possibly on the table is for DP to graduate and then use the graduate transfer option to play at another school next year without a waiver. I don't know if he has enough credits to make this happen. I know he was taking classes over the summer because it made him unavailable to play for team Canada. He might have enough credits now to finish a General Studies degree. Or (if he really wanted to go this route) he could come back as a regular student in the Spring semester and take enough courses to finish his degree.

[N2663R]

Sorry if this was already posted, but here is an article from The Sporting News with quotes from Dyshawn and the complainant.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-dayton-lawyer

[Ready Action]

I'm sure Pierre is going over all of his options. Because of his talents I am sure all types from attorneys, to slime ball coaches (schools) to agents are trying to reach out to him and advise him on what will be "best" for him. In my opinion I don't think he ever plays for UD again. If he is innocent of any wrong doing I hope for him this does not end in one of those tragic tales that we continuously hear about of what could have been.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by TA111 The good news is this shows he really wants back on the team. Otherwise he would just leave and go somewhere else.

i would fight to stay on this team.

[Bucketnight]

If DP truly believes that he is innocent of any crime than he should vigorously fight this to clear his name, as should anyone in that circumstance. If Wabler's resignation was in protest, I hope he does the honorable thing and says so publicly which I would think would be very difficult based upon loyal relationship to the University.

There really isn't a good outcome for the University or for us. I expect this to drag out. It would seem better to have some type of external arbitration process... even if it was non-binding.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[udflyerhoops2]

It's the school that turned their back on Pierre, not the team or his coach. I'd be willing to bet that Dyshawn is not feeling hung out to dry by his teammates and Archie. I'd also be willing to bet that with what the school has done, the whole team feels that UD will throw any one of them under the bus given the opportunity.

My opinion.

[DGO67]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 Big time attorney in Ginsberg, who shelled this money out

Could be a Flyer fan or bid for exposure! In either case, pro-bono.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Going by his attorney's statement... it would appear Dyshawn wants to come back:

"Dyshawn looks forward to a full and fair hearing and, ultimately, to vindication," Ginsberg said. "No one, woman or man, should be subjected to abuse, and no one, woman or man, should be deprived of fundamental rights and fair treatment. We look forward to the truth coming out, and Dyshawn looks forward to returning to the University of Dayton."

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by N2663R Sorry if this was already posted, but here is an article from The Sporting News with quotes from Dyshawn and the complainant. http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-dayton-lawyer

I think we can read between the lines and figure out what happened here. If you want my dirty details assessment, PM me. I don't want to put that out for everyone to see on the interwebs.

I think I figured out why she feels violated but not enough to make a federal case about it, he feels like he did nothing wrong, her roommates felt the need to act on her behalf, and the police found nothing to prosecute.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I think we can read between the lines and figure out what happened here. If you want my dirty details assessment, PM me. I don't want to put that out for everyone to see on the interwebs. I think I figured out why she feels violated but not enough to make a federal case about it, he feels like he did nothing wrong, her roommates felt the need to act on her behalf, and the police found nothing to prosecute.

I think I know what you're saying and always thought this was a possibility. Look into the Kobe Bryant rape allegations and I think you know where I'm coming from.

This all is flat out embarrassing for all involved.

[udstevied_D87]

Side note: Peter Ginsberg has also represented pro athletes. From Vijay Singh to Ray Rice. I'm that much more confident Pierre will not be guilty of anything.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...eter-ginsberg/

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 It's the school that turned their back on Pierre, not the team or his coach. I'd be willing to bet that Dyshawn is not feeling hung out to dry by his teammates and Archie. I'd also be willing to bet that with what the school has done, the whole team feels that UD will throw any one of them under the bus given the opportunity. My opinion.

It is entirely possible that given the facts of the case (which include both alcohol use by both parties, sex, etc.) that UD had NO CHOICE given those facts and the Federal Law that they wish to stay in compliance on. Some of this stuff is tied to UD's students (all students) being "eligible" to apply for and receive federal loans, pell grants, etc.

Not sure if that applies at all here----but I do know that UD has to be very careful when dealing with Federal laws, etc.

None of these things are easy and there is a process! I am NOT saying that the law is a good one, but sometimes that doesn't matter if the facts warrant the application of a specific "penalty" etc.

I want this kid back on campus and at UD yesterday!

Honestly, it's no surprise that "sometimes" women and men feel "differently" about what "sex" signifies and means both short and long term?

Not saying' it's right or wrong one way or the other----only that it appears to be the truth today just like it was "back in the day"!

[Smitty10]

I've got a couple questions for the legal experts out there.

1. How long does it take for a civil case like this to get resolved? Can it be expedited?

2. Is the reality of this that the University would have no problem with and actually feel good about DP winning this civil case, is reinstated and they can then free themselves of all liability if the student athlete commits something similar to what he was accused of in the future?

In other words, is the University taking the easy way out of liability by forcing the student athlete to force the courts to reinstate him?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I wonder how many intoxicated students had relations in the last 6 months? That, in itself, is where the problem lis and the inconsistent application of civil rules/policies.

Yes, but if a complaint is filed, then UD is obligated to pursue the matter and apply the rules. I don't see inconsistent application of the rules here. He shouldn't have put himself in this position.

Wells was technically guilty of violating the code of conduct too BTW.

[hawkoooo]

I assume ya'll know what I think about all this.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by GoFlyer Now some of the same posters are screaming this is unfair. Geez people . . if you push someone into a corner they come out fighting. In this case . . .the "fight" is perhaps over-reaction. If that is true, don't we all share some of the blame? And a student athlete's reputation has been tarnished and his future compromised.

Having read the report I can say that UD did hammer DP for doing something that probably happened dozens of times last weekend.

Here is the kicker...from the report, the "victim" crawled in and out of DP's bed 3 times throughout the night. It also stated that after the incident, that a conversation occurs between both and that the "victim" states she had a boyfriend and that DP wouldn't had been with her had she stated that from the get go. Her story seems inconsistent to say the least, and the only reason it was investigated is that one of her coaches from her respective sport contacted Title IX staff, who in turn contacted UDPD.

There are no witnesses that observed anything. The witnesses on the "victims" side stated that the "suspect" gets touchy feely when drunk...a far cry from a crime.

There were people present in the apartment and it states as such...however the victim say they were alone...

Sorrry....but after reading the thing...it sounds as if DP got a hose job because he had relations with a girl that was drinking just as he was. Sounds like she had buyers remorse due to having a boyfriend of 5 years and cheating on him. DP also mentioned in the report that his ex-gf is in the picture and that he had contact with her after the incident...further giving rise to the buyers remorse argument that the "victim" is salty there is another female in the picture. The "victim" states that she was forced to have relations, but there are multiple consistent statements from both that she had multiple outs throughout the encounter as both left the room at one time, or on her part, multiple times.

I am not buying the claim, and obviously neither did the prosecutor. Better have your partner sign a waiver before climbing in the rack after a night at the bars...

[ud2]

Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan Don't disagree! Seriously, if a beer means a man or women at UD can't "consent" to have sex--------man a lot of folks on campus now and in past years would be "guilty" of the same thing! The part where the room mates called the cops is especially disconcerting-----on some levels! Glad they were there for the girl (if she truly needed it) but man how many folks have left Tim's/Flanagan's over the years and spent the night with another person who was having a beer(s) at the bar to have "consensual" sex? Again, I know there are those on all college campuses that can't really be trusted (honestly males and females)-----but not sure what to think about this?

If a complaint is filed, and a student honestly feels that they were sexually assaulted, then the university should pursue the matter.

And we shouldn't be throwing her friends under the bus for reporting this either, victims often times are afraid to come forward, her friends did the right thing if they thought that she was sexually assaulted.

Originally Posted by GoFlyer This whole situation strikes me as "Be careful what you wish for" . . . Go back to the UDPride posts on Kav, Robinson and Scott. Oh yes, big conspiracy talk about how UD hid the problems, the administration was looking the other way, the students were getting away with horrible things, double standard, awful behavior being hidden . . . . . innuendo, innuendo, innuendo. Now some of the same posters are screaming this is unfair. Geez people . . if you push someone into a corner they come out fighting. In this case . . .the "fight" is perhaps over-reaction. If that is true, don't we all share some of the blame? And a student athlete's reputation has been tarnished and his future compromised.

Agree.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by ud2 Yes, but if a complaint is filed, then UD is obligated to pursue the matter and apply the rules. I don't see inconsistent application of the rules here. He shouldn't have put himself in this situation. Wells was guilty of violating the code of conduct too BTW.

There is nothing in the report that many other college students didn't do. Went to the bar, came back to a room, and had relations....that is hardly suspension worthy just because a female makes an unfounded complaint...

[ud2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 There is nothing in the report that many other college students didn't do. Went to the bar, came back to a room, and had relations....that is hardly suspension worthy just because a female makes an unfounded complaint...

Agree, I just read your post about the report, it sounds like he did nothing wrong.

Isn't there some end of this where she could be construed as having taken advantage of him too since he was also drinking? Doesn't seem fair that the man has to bear all the blame if alcohol is involved. They were both drinking.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Agree, I just read your post about the report, it sounds like he did nothing wrong.

His biggest mistake was leaving her at 5:00 am and saying it was to go see his ex-gf. You can't make this sh*t up!

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by ud2 Agree, I just read your post about the report, it sounds like he did nothing wrong. Isn't there some end of this where she could be construed as having taken advantage of him too since he was also drinking? Doesn't seem fair that the man has to bear all the blame if alcohol is involved. They were both drinking.

Did they make a smart choice? Probably not for both...

Dumb mistake and crimes are two different things....dumb mistakes that earn you removal from school for a semester...they better be incidents that are rare, out of the ordinary, major policy violations, etc...

I am sorry...but this is the same as the "I'm offended" arguments...basically, just because a party was "offended" at the actions of one...even though she is just as much to blame (had sex drunk)...one party pays the price.

I would like to see the stats related to females who are removed from campus for the offense of "I was voluntarily intoxicated and engaged in sex". No sexual assault here happened, according to the police investigation and the opinion of the prosecutor. Since no crimes happened, it is a policy violation...and that policy violation extends to both of these parties...I wonder if the female in this case was forced to leave for a policy violation?