|
|
|
02-27-2017, 12:52 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
Archie can stay at UD as long as he wants. He would have to have a disastrous string of bad things happen to be fired. I think he knows this and is content making almost $3mil a year in Dayton, OH. He can set his family up for life and live extravagantly.
|
I was thinking maybe 3 non-NCAAT seasons in a row might warm his seat a little at UD.
I agree that I overstated my case as far as AM here at UD is concerned. His national reputation would suffer though.
|
02-27-2017, 08:45 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 312to937
I know it's hard for many to understand - but you really can:
1. Respect and like Archie as a coach; and
2. Be a UD supporter; and
3. Think he will leave UD for a number of P5 schools.
Please - you don't go straight from Dayton/A10 (with it's current membership) to any of the blue bloods you mentioned.
|
So what, is there like 5 jobs between the "blue bloods" and the UD job now? So you think someone leaves a Michigan or Wisconsin or West Virginia or Oregon or Notre Dame to take a "blue blood job? If someone has been very successful in P5 job, they are not leaving to take the "blue blood" job. If they haven't been successful in their current P5 job, they are not going to be considered for the "blue blood" job. The exception is the Roy Williams type situation where someone goes back home.
The world has changed. Florida may not be a "blue blood" job but it is pretty high up there. Where did they go for their last coach?
|
02-27-2017, 09:19 AM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
apologies if this was posted earlier:
http://www.si.com/college-basketball...-pitino-future
Archie's name comes up again and again and again as a possibility for these very high profile jobs.
|
Mad Props to Medford For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 02:40 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by xubrew
The AD at NC State is bat**** crazy, but she's also retiring in the next year so that makes it a little better.
I wouldn't call it a bottom-tier job, but I'd call it one where the grass looks a lot greener prior to arrival. NC State is somewhat delusional. It's sort of like taking the head football coaching job at Purdue or Iowa and then being expected to perform at the level that Ohio State and Michigan do. Purdue and Iowa are decent football programs that have had success, but they're not Ohio State and Michigan. NC State is not Duke or UNC either. But, they think that they are, and whenever a coach falls short of that they want to run him out of town. Even if they happen to be that good for a season or two, they get frustrated when they stop falling short of that.
By no means do I think Herb Sendek is a great coach. But at the very least I believe him to be a decent coach. The year they fired him, NC State had made its fifth straight NCAA Tournament, and had also made the Round of 32. It was the fourth time in five years they've been past the first round. They still fired him. Any program that fires a coach after the team makes it to the Round of 32 is probably the kind of program you need to stop and think about. In fact no program that has ever done that has ended up better off. Minnesota fired Tubby Smith after he made the Round of 32, and Wake fired Dino Gaudio. What have either of those programs done since then?
I get why NC State is attractive. I'm not saying Archie Miller wouldn't be interested or wouldn't go. I'm just saying that it's a ROUGH job. My advice would be to not take it. He's going to have other opportunities, and almost all of them will be positions where he can be successful. Now having said that, he won't ask for my advice. He's been there, so he should know. They're nuts. They really are. Duke and North Carolina is the biggest rivalry, but as far as bitterness go I think they both actually hate NC State more because of the fans.
|
First of all, thanks for approving my application. Given the coaching search at NCSU I thought I would peruse the Dayton boards to see what their thoughts were. Overall, I'm really impressed by the level of knowledge and clear thinking here. BRAVO.
I did want to comment on a couple of things mentioned in the post quoted above. Some of them make sense and some are just outright false.
There are definitely some Wolfpackers who would agree that the the AD (Yow) is bat**** crazy. I don't get a sense that a majority of alums feel this way. However, there is definitely some contention around Yow's performance as AD.
Most alums do not think NC State is Duke or UNC-Ch. For a lot of alums in their 40's (like me) it's easy to remember when NCSU had a more successful history than Duke and was on par with UNC-Ch. Obviously, since the early 90s things have changed in a BIG way and NCSU is not anywhere even remotely close to the success of UNC-Ch or Duke. We know our history; far history and recent history.
I do want to comment on the "running a coach out of town" thoughts. First, Herb Sendek was not fired. He left of his own accord for more money at Arizona State. He also left the cupboard pretty bare with regards to talent and the program was horrid after he left. Yes, there were still a couple of good players, but there was absolutely no depth, and lack of depth is a death sentence in the ACC. Also, Sendek had absolutely polarized the fan base. As is often the case with polarized thoughts about a topic that elicit passion, some of the "discussions" were pointless arguments and devolved into name calling. However, Sendek was in Raleigh for 10 years. His first five years he had almost no success at all, and he was retained.
After Sendek quit, the coaching search was a comedy of errors. The AD (Lee Fowler) could not have done a worse job. You should read the story about Calipari and the slice of pizza. I have a bad feeling it's a true account. In the end we ended up with Sidney Lowe; an alum who has had oodles of experience coaching in the NBA. He did not translate well to college coaching and the program went absolutely no where for five year. Five years.
After Lowe, AD Yow got a chance to do a coaching search and it went marginally better than Fowler's search. Of course, ANY search would be better than the previous one so Yow's search can only be considered better because it was being compared to arguably the worst college basketball head coaching search in history (hey, we're number 1 in something, right?).
Gottfried's tenure in Raleigh has been good and bad. He arrived and immediately went to 4 straight NCAAs. Two of those trips were to the sweet 16. Overall, this is MASSIVE improvement. Let's also keep a few things in mind. Two of those tourney bids were by the skin of our teeth. In at least one of them, NCSU was the last at-large team selected, and in another one NC State was provided as the example of P5 conferences getting bids when they were not deserved. While Gottfried's recruiting has been quite good, the team's performance doesn't equate with the team's talent. A couple of years ago Coach Lutz moved on, and several people were concerned that the staff's real X and O lead had left the program. Based on performance over the last two years, I think this may be true. Still, Gottfried got nearly 6 years and has absolutely had some success coupled with head-scratching failure.
Which brings us to this coaching search and the possibility of getting current UD coach and NCSU alum Archie Miller back in Raleigh. NC State is a good job, but maybe not as good as some of our alums think it is. However, it comes with a RABID fan base (which is good and bad) and fantastic facilities
in an area of the country where college basketball is still king. The coaches at Duke and UNC-Ch will not be in their positions much longer (due to age and for UNC-Ch potential NCAA sanctions). Personally, I'd love to have Archie as coach, but I just don't know what's going to happen.
Again, great site and one way or another our schools are going to get or retain a great coach.
|
14 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to wolfxci For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
cj (02-27-2017), ClaytonFlyerFan (02-27-2017), cralford (02-27-2017), CT Flyer (02-27-2017), Figgie123 (02-27-2017), Flyer 86 (03-03-2017), FlyingArrow (03-07-2017), jack72 (02-27-2017), Jeff (02-27-2017), rollo (02-27-2017), Runnin' Rebel (02-27-2017), shapanud (02-27-2017), Sticks 'n Stearns (02-28-2017), Tony T 71 (02-27-2017) |
02-27-2017, 03:24 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
Also, Sendek had absolutely polarized the fan base. As is often the case with polarized thoughts about a topic that elicit passion, some of the "discussions" were pointless arguments and devolved into name calling.
|
We have been there.
|
02-27-2017, 03:31 PM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Coldwater
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 2,322
Thanked 1,206 Times in 542 Posts
|
|
So, Gottfried wasn't so great and one reason is because his team was the last in the NCAA once, so Archie is better because his team was the last in one year. Also, with these other jobs opening up soon, why go now?
|
02-27-2017, 03:39 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
After Sendek quit, the coaching search was a comedy of errors. The AD (Lee Fowler) could not have done a worse job. You should read the story about Calipari and the slice of pizza. I have a bad feeling it's a true account.
|
All I found from an NC State forum was:
"Lee Fowler brings in Calipari, who's in love with NC State and seriously considering taking the job. The two go to a pizza place on Hillsborough Street (likely I heart NY) and each order a slice of pizza. Fowler pays for just his own slide. Calipari is dumbfounded that Fowler wants to go dutch and gives Fowler a funny look but doesn't say anything. Calipari decides in that moment that if Fowler is this clueless, he doesn't want to work for him."
|
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to priceg75 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 03:43 PM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,033
Thanks: 5,564
Thanked 2,316 Times in 1,328 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
All I found from an NC State forum was:
"Lee Fowler brings in Calipari, who's in love with NC State and seriously considering taking the job. The two go to a pizza place on Hillsborough Street (likely I heart NY) and each order a slice of pizza. Fowler pays for just his own slide. Calipari is dumbfounded that Fowler wants to go dutch and gives Fowler a funny look but doesn't say anything. Calipari decides in that moment that if Fowler is this clueless, he doesn't want to work for him."
|
Too funny if true...
|
02-27-2017, 03:44 PM
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,202
Thanks: 385
Thanked 2,312 Times in 1,011 Posts
|
|
Someone else had already pointed it out, but I was wrong about Sendek being fired. I think it's fair to say that a lot of people were happy to see him go, and that he probably had a sour taste in his mouth when he did leave, but that's still not the same thing as actually being fired. I'm glad this is just a message board where others do the fact checking for you. As far as Debbie Yow goes, most of what I hear about her is just that. Things that I hear. But, when a press conference where a new basketball coach is being introduced devolves into her attacking Gary Williams, that's just not a good look and it tends to confirm much of what had been heard. Maybe she's not bat**** crazy. Maybe she just doesn't get along with certain types of people, and is easily bated when asked about the people she doesn't get along with, and then comes out looking like she's bat**** crazy.
...and I do like the "UNC-Ch." I'm always happy when I'm reminded just how chippy things are down on Tobacco Road.
|
Mad Props to xubrew For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 04:30 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Coach K- Army to Duke
|
Looks like you were right about Duke, in the 3 years before Coach K. took over, Duke went to the finals, the Elite 8, and the round of 32.
I was wrong.
1977–78 Bill Foster 27–7 8–4 2nd NCAA Finalist
1978–79 Bill Foster 22–8 9–3 T-1st NCAA Round of 32 (Round of 40 bye)
1979–80 Bill Foster 24–9 7–7 T-5th NCAA Elite Eight
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to ud2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 04:46 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Yes, a lot of folks were happy when Sendek left; some weren't. It's been 11 years and it's still being discussed.
There is something going on between Yow and Gary Williams that is bizarre and unhealthy. The rumor is that he worked behind the scenes to subvert her coaching search and the only reason Gottfried was hired is because he and Yow have (had?) a personal friendship. Then, she attacks Willimas during Gottfried's hiring press conference. I'm expecting a flaming bag of dog poo on somebody's front porch at any moment as the next step. Yet another example of the soap opera that is NC State basketball.
SI just released an article saying that as many as 35 HC jobs could come open this off-season. They specifically mention Ohio State, but I would be surprised if Matta gets fired this year. Of course, I was surprised that Gottfried got the axe, so what do I know?
If so many roles open up, do you think Miller stays at UD even he says, "No Thanks" to NCSU?
|
Mad Props to wolfxci For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 05:19 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,715
Thanks: 2,210
Thanked 2,378 Times in 810 Posts
|
|
I don't think Ohio State will fire Matta, but if he stepped down, I suspect Archie would take that job, if offered, in a heartbeat. NC State, not so much. My feeling is Archie's not going anywhere for another couple of years at least. But as with all things on a message board, that's an opinion.
|
02-27-2017, 07:27 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,406
Thanks: 866
Thanked 6,301 Times in 3,004 Posts
|
|
If Matta was fired I'd hire him
|
Mad Props to Sea Bass For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-27-2017, 08:28 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,373
Thanks: 19
Thanked 374 Times in 234 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by CE80
So what, is there like 5 jobs between the "blue bloods" and the UD job now? So you think someone leaves a Michigan or Wisconsin or West Virginia or Oregon or Notre Dame to take a "blue blood job? If someone has been very successful in P5 job, they are not leaving to take the "blue blood" job. If they haven't been successful in their current P5 job, they are not going to be considered for the "blue blood" job. The exception is the Roy Williams type situation where someone goes back home.
The world has changed. Florida may not be a "blue blood" job but it is pretty high up there. Where did they go for their last coach?
|
Original poster specifically mentioned five "blue bloods" (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, NC and Mich State). Are you saying there are only five more schools beyond those blue bloods that are more attractive than the UD job now???
And as far as your claim that successful P5 coaches don't leave to go to blue bloods, you might want to take a look at Bill Self's three years at Illinois before he went to blue blood Kansas. Also, Tubby Smith had back to back 20 win seasons and NCAA appearances at Georgia before he took the blue blood Kentucky job.
Last edited by 312to937; 02-27-2017 at 08:34 PM..
|
02-27-2017, 08:32 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,319
Thanks: 406
Thanked 1,001 Times in 493 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud2
Looks like you were right about Duke, in the 3 years before Coach K. took over, Duke went to the finals, the Elite 8, and the round of 32.
I was wrong.
1977–78 Bill Foster 27–7 8–4 2nd NCAA Finalist
1978–79 Bill Foster 22–8 9–3 T-1st NCAA Round of 32 (Round of 40 bye)
1979–80 Bill Foster 24–9 7–7 T-5th NCAA Elite Eight
|
You are correct,. My bad. Prior to '78 they didn't have a tourney appearance since '66. Did you have any issue with my Callapari stats?
|
02-28-2017, 02:31 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by 312to937
Original poster specifically mentioned five "blue bloods" (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, NC and Mich State). Are you saying there are only five more schools beyond those blue bloods that are more attractive than the UD job now???
And as far as your claim that successful P5 coaches don't leave to go to blue bloods, you might want to take a look at Bill Self's three years at Illinois before he went to blue blood Kansas. Also, Tubby Smith had back to back 20 win seasons and NCAA appearances at Georgia before he took the blue blood Kentucky job.
|
I can't speak for the original poster but I don't think of those 5 schools as being the only blue bloods. Is Indiana a blue blood? UCLA? I would think. Indiana got their last coach from Marquette. UCLA from New Mexico. Both good jobs. I'll be generous, maybe on par with Dayton but not better. Heck Kentucky got their last coach from Memphis. On par with Dayton? Again perhaps but not better. So I was thinking of a more broad definition. Really those destination jobs that a successful coach is not leaving for any reason except the get back home situation. Are there 10? 15? jobs that fit that description? Georgia and Illinois are good jobs but aren't ones. So maybe it is not 5 jobs that fall between the blue bloods and the Dayton like programs. Maybe it's 10? It doesn't really matter. My bigger issue is with you saying that a new blue blood coach is never coming from a program like Dayton. I think I just proved they have and will in the future. It is more about the person and I think Archie Miller is one of those persons.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 08:44 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Nice analysis, CE80. I think there are probably 10-12 jobs in the country that are a certain "step up" from our Flyers. There's probably another 10 or so that are on-par with our Flyers. Beyond that, everything else is a step down.
Who's a step-up? Obviously, the places you specifically cited. Who's on-par? Marquette, for one. Supportive fan base, but plays in a shared arena (admittedly, shared with the NBA, but shared nonetheless). UConn's another. Great success on the court, but with an arena that would be better described as "cozy" as opposed to "cavernous", and the women's program gets more press and national attention (and deservedly so). I could go on, but what's the point?
Archie will leave when the right opportunity comes along. What is "the right opportunity"? Only Archie knows for sure, but I believe it will include:
- Facilities that are first-rate.
- An institution (school) that supports him and works with him to promote the success of the program.
- A fan base that (a) takes its basketball seriously, and (b) is steady in its support of the program. And, most importantly,
- A chance to compete for championships not only at the conference level but at the national level as well.
Anything less would be a step backward from where he is right now.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to T-Bone 84 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 10:01 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 3,644
Thanks: 2,352
Thanked 1,650 Times in 838 Posts
|
|
I still contend that Archie is not leaving unless it's for a program at which he believes he's got a shot at a National Title. Define that, calculate the probability and I bet you find a winner. First thing is that you have to be competitive recruiting (not all blue-chippers, but you do require a couple of studs). Second you have to be in the tournament annually, if not at least in most years (80% of the time). Third thing that is clearly important is avoiding tough seeds (i.e. don't be a mid-major perennial 7-12 seed, aka win the proverbial eye test). If you're being honest that's a tough push over the hill for most schools like Dayton, especially in the current climate. Gonzaga model aside, it's pretty rare.
|
02-28-2017, 10:44 AM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Since we've got a wolfpacker in sheep's clothing , specifically about the Yow situation I have a question. I've read that she is going to retire in another year (or 2 perhaps), is that locked down in writing or verbal commitments on her part, or is that just speculation? Even if she is not well liked, or if she is, that would seem to be a detriment to the hiring process for NC State. If you are going to promote from within, then it would seem to be "more of the same", ie if you don't like Yow, why would you like the people she directly employs below her? If they are going to hire from the outside, how in the world do you get comfortable no knowing who your future boss is going to be, what their vision for the athletic department and in this case basketball going to be, what their track record is? What if the next AD is a current associate AD at Texas or the current AD at Ole Miss (just picking schools) where football is King and their vision is to be the next "Clemson" of the ACC and bring prestige to the school by directing funds and focus towards football?
Even if Yow is as bad as I see NC State fans say, I'm not sure how the next coach gets comfortable with that specific job not knowing who his boss will be if she is indeed retiring.
|
Mad Props to Medford For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 11:18 AM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
Gottfried's tenure in Raleigh has been good and bad. He arrived and immediately went to 4 straight NCAAs. Two of those trips were to the sweet 16. Overall, this is MASSIVE improvement. Let's also keep a few things in mind. Two of those tourney bids were by the skin of our teeth. In at least one of them, NCSU was the last at-large team selected, and in another one NC State was provided as the example of P5 conferences getting bids when they were not deserved. While Gottfried's recruiting has been quite good, the team's performance doesn't equate with the team's talent. A couple of years ago Coach Lutz moved on, and several people were concerned that the staff's real X and O lead had left the program. Based on performance over the last two years, I think this may be true. Still, Gottfried got nearly 6 years and has absolutely had some success coupled with head-scratching failure.
|
Having lived through the good and the bad, I would put forward that it's not talent that you're lacking, it's coaching. At UD we've seen horrid coaching (O'Brien--might get red pips just for saying his name), Purnell (good, solid but not great coach, probably a lot like Gottfried?), Gregory (amazing recruiter, bad game coach), and now Miller (good recruiter, top notch coach).
The difference between good coaching, bad coaching, and great coaching is a lot like the old saying about pornography: hard to define you know it when you see it.
|
02-28-2017, 11:26 AM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Nice analysis, CE80. I think there are probably 10-12 jobs in the country that are a certain "step up" from our Flyers. There's probably another 10 or so that are on-par with our Flyers. Beyond that, everything else is a step down.
Who's a step-up? Obviously, the places you specifically cited. Who's on-par? Marquette, for one. Supportive fan base, but plays in a shared arena (admittedly, shared with the NBA, but shared nonetheless). UConn's another. Great success on the court, but with an arena that would be better described as "cozy" as opposed to "cavernous", and the women's program gets more press and national attention (and deservedly so). I could go on, but what's the point?
Archie will leave when the right opportunity comes along. What is "the right opportunity"? Only Archie knows for sure, but I believe it will include:
- Facilities that are first-rate.
- An institution (school) that supports him and works with him to promote the success of the program.
- A fan base that (a) takes its basketball seriously, and (b) is steady in its support of the program. And, most importantly,
- A chance to compete for championships not only at the conference level but at the national level as well.
Anything less would be a step backward from where he is right now.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
It's interesting to think about the fact that there are not 70 schools comparable or better to UD like there were back in the early Gem City Jam days. I think a fair, honest assessment would put maybe 10-15 schools above us and 10-15 schools on par with us (depending on which variables you weight more heavily). Out of 300+ schools that's pretty good company.
For example, I don't see NCST as a better school, and maybe not even a comparable school. How do you rate the interference of football as a coach? Is recruiting easier or harder given your location--could be either? How does the administration treat basketball? Local quality of life? Pressure from the fan base--realistic? Trajectory--a couple down years in the ACC and you might become toxic to recruits whereas a couple down years in the A10 and you can probably continue to attract enough talent to win. Do recruits value winning in a lesser conference over potentially losing (a lot) in a bigger conference? Turnover in recruits--would recruits at NCST view a backup role as beneath them and not accept it?
A very large number of ACC, Big East, Big 12, Pac 10, Big 10, and SEC jobs are far worse than UD. The conference name means nothing to job satisfaction.
|
Mad Props to Gazoo For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 11:51 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
I think Archie has reinforced what we all knew to be true. That is, given all the resources, the head coaching position at UD is a very good job and the right coach can be very successful. In the past, many people had said UD was a very good job but it wasn't as obvious because of the results. I still have my concern of the succession plan if/when Archie leaves but I guess now the job will attract a higher level of interest due to the bar being raised.
|
02-28-2017, 12:03 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 3,227
Thanks: 1,484
Thanked 1,912 Times in 1,082 Posts
|
|
Sometimes it's not just the School
The issue with the Archie 'Watch' is not only based on the school. Dayton vs NCSt or Dayton vs Indiana, it is conference affiliation. A10 vs ACC or A10 vs BIG10
Does a coach want to worry about a road game against the Dukes (Not DUKE) or UMASS (Not UWISC)?
So the question is what schools in what conferences entice a coach to leave one school and go to another?
Yes the Gonzaga model is something to emulate at UD but you are still left with both teams playing in conference against also rans. Move either Gonzaga or Dayton to a higher level conference and no coach would be thinking about parlaying his next move after a few years of success.
Now is Archie inclined to move somewhere else? Maybe ... maybe not. But being a competitive spirit as I think he is, somewhere down the road I would think his thoughts about competing against higher level programs in conference (rather than just doing it maybe in an early season tournament or a post season run in the NCAAT) has got to be something he definitely desires.
|
Mad Props to NJFlyr71 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 02:02 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Medford
Since we've got a wolfpacker in sheep's clothing , specifically about the Yow situation I have a question. I've read that she is going to retire in another year (or 2 perhaps), is that locked down in writing or verbal commitments on her part, or is that just speculation? Even if she is not well liked, or if she is, that would seem to be a detriment to the hiring process for NC State. If you are going to promote from within, then it would seem to be "more of the same", ie if you don't like Yow, why would you like the people she directly employs below her? If they are going to hire from the outside, how in the world do you get comfortable no knowing who your future boss is going to be, what their vision for the athletic department and in this case basketball going to be, what their track record is? What if the next AD is a current associate AD at Texas or the current AD at Ole Miss (just picking schools) where football is King and their vision is to be the next "Clemson" of the ACC and bring prestige to the school by directing funds and focus towards football?
Even if Yow is as bad as I see NC State fans say, I'm not sure how the next coach gets comfortable with that specific job not knowing who his boss will be if she is indeed retiring.
|
Please don't say "in sheep's clothing". That's viewed as a reference to being a UNC-Ch fan.
I'm not plugged-in to the workings of the AD department. The accepted thought is that Yow is gone in two years (retirement). This hire is seen as her last big legacy and she wants to make a good one. It can be a big issue if you're a coach and won't know who your boss is going to be. One thought is that coming back to his alma mater is a draw that compensates Miller for not knowing who the long-term AD is going to be. Only Archie can say if this really matters to him or not.
While NC State would love to be the next Clemson in football, I don't think that's a very realistic view. Historically, NC State is a .500 football program with a good year or two out of every 10. Believe me, the boosters, the admin, the alum would all love to have a successful football team, but a majority (maybe even a vast majority) of alumae would trade away everything football related for a successful basketball team. By successful I mean regular NCAA tournament appearances and advancing to the sweet 16 two out of every 3 years with an ACC Championship every five-ish years. Basketball is still the king sport at NC State.
FWIW, the rumors on the NC State board are that Archie is not in play any longer.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to wolfxci For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 02:10 PM
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 268
Thanks: 0
Thanked 220 Times in 104 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
Please don't say "in sheep's clothing". By successful I mean regular NCAA tournament appearances and advancing to the sweet 16 two out of every 3 years with an ACC Championship every five-ish years. Basketball is still the king sport at NC State.
FWIW, the rumors on the NC State board are that Archie is not in play any longer.
|
By successful I mean regular NCAA tournament appearances and advancing to the sweet 16 two out of every 3 years with an ACC Championship every five-ish years. Basketball is still the king sport at NC State.
HMM to me Arch can accomplish this at UD. Arch is think Final Fours, National Championships which is in line with what Sean is wanting to do at Arizona.
Also, not knowing your boss is a couple years is a huge risk for any established coach
|
02-28-2017, 02:17 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
At least I didn't call you a devil Didn't think about the UNC tie in though.
anyhoo, Archie or otherwise, I still think that would be a stumbling block, why leave "what you know" to step into something that nobody knows if are currently in a good situation? 2 years in the real world is a long time, 2 years in college basketball is a very short window. It may be different if the perception was/is that Yow was a very good AD, you could at least have confidence that they would/could promote from within or that you could help influence who the next AD would be. If she's as bad as many NC St fans seem to make her out to be (I have no clue, just what I read on your message board and other places) it would seem like they'd have to go out of house and whomever is the coach would have less influence.
|
02-28-2017, 02:20 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
I never knew until a SLU friend told me that Debbie Yow started out was the AD for SLU - before Maryland and NC State.
|
02-28-2017, 02:40 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer
By successful I mean regular NCAA tournament appearances and advancing to the sweet 16 two out of every 3 years with an ACC Championship every five-ish years. Basketball is still the king sport at NC State.
HMM to me Arch can accomplish this at UD. Arch is think Final Fours, National Championships which is in line with what Sean is wanting to do at Arizona.
Also, not knowing your boss is a couple years is a huge risk for any established coach
|
Say what you will, but an A10 championship is in no way, shape or form equal to an ACC championship. However, the path to an A10 title is much, much easier relative to its peers. In terms of athletic budget, facilities and expectations, only VCU and maybe SLU is on UD's level in the A10. Some program float in/out and obviously SLU is way down at the moment, but if all else is equal, those 3 should be fighting every season w/ a sprinkling of Rhody and a rotating blitz of Bona & Richmond. In the ACC, in terms of facilities and budget, at best NC State is on equal grounds (and I'd say that is not the case) with Louiville, Duke, UNC & Syracuse. Throw in teams that I think are more in line w/ NC State like UVA & Notre Dame not to mention the occasional uprising from a program like Pitt, Miami or free shoes U and winning 1 ACC championship every 5 years is a tough, tough task.
two sweet 16s in 3 years? Sounds nice, but that is really, really hard to accomplish. 13 programs have made the sweet 16 twice in the last 3 years. Some of them that just happen to be in a really good cycle in comparison to historical performance (Iowa St, Virginia) most that are at or near the top of the NCAA food chain (Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Zona, MSU, etc..) I think if you changed that to 2 sweet 16s every 5 seasons, you'd be in much more realistic territory for a program like NC State. UD's never made the tournament 4 seasons in a row (hopefully that changes this year) so to say that 2 in 3 seasons is a realistic goal at UD is short sighted. Now perhaps the right coach (read Archie) could make that happen over the course of a 20+ year career, but that would be ambitious as well at UD.
Top level pay at UD is pretty similar to all but a handful of schools, the pressure is significantly less than at many places, recruiting area is solid, facilities are competitive w/ just about anyone. There are a lot of great things about coaching at UD, we all know that, but there will always be things that will attract coaches to another school depending on their taste. There are also things that would keep many coaches at UD no matter who came calling depending on their taste.
|
|
|
|
St Bonaventure
|
|
SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mad Props to Medford For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 02:47 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
I've read parts of the Archie/UD thread on Pack Pride (I think that is the name of their scout site) and while you expect the typical amount of egotistical verbose from another fan base in regards to UD/A10 I get the sense that most have no clue how much passion lies w/n the realm of UD basketball. Since that thread has started, all of UD's "big games" have been on the road, I'm kind of interested to see what kind of take UD gets from the people in that thread for what will certainly be an intense, electric atmosphere Wednesday night, especially if its a good game. That is the one thing that many of fans of message boards of P5 programs don't realize about UD until they meet us in some tournament format around the country. Providence fans a few seasons ago in Columbus, 'Cuse fans in Buffalo, Tennessee & Florida fans in Nashville, opposing teams in Mauii or Orlando or wherever UD players their early season tournament. You always get the comments that there are UD fans "everywhere"
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Medford For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 02:59 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Yow is almost as polarizing a figure as Sendek when it comes to NC State athletics. I'm not exactly sure why.
Personally, I have no issues with her. The department seems to be in good shape financially. The non-revenue sports have been improving steadily under her tenure. The women's BB team is having a break out season which was totally unexpected.
Her football coach hire is still being scrutinized. Doeren didn't have much to work with when he got to NC State, but he hasn't done very much since his arrival either.
The basketball coach she hired just got fired.
She and Gary Williams HATE each other and there has been a lot of press showcasing this feud and putting her in a worse light than him. I'm not sure why she always comes out looking worse in these instances.
Only Archie and his family can decide if the NC State job makes sense to them. He went to school there and so did she. She has family in North Carolina. Maybe this is enticing and may it isn't.
I KNOW I'm looking at this through my "red colored lenses", but I think the NC State job has a higher ceiling than the Dayton job. Honestly, as of right now, I think the only advantage NC State has over Dayton is conference affiliation. I don't think that the NC State program is a step ahead of UD currently. If you put into play that Archie and his wife are alumni, NC State is a founding member of the ACC, The Duke and UNC-Ch coaches are not going to be in place much longer, recruiting and TV exposure will be higher-profile versus the A10, North Carolina has easy access to mountains and beaches and it adds up to a potentially compelling move.
All jobs have their pluses and minuses. The NC State AD situation, the need for re-building, the "second class citizen" status NC State athletics has compared to UNC-Ch in the state are all negatives. Maybe the negatives outweigh the positives and maybe they don't. I don't know what the Millers are going to do.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to wolfxci For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 03:07 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
^
I think that is a fair assessment. While any coaching change presents risk, I think the foundation is in place that even w/ a poor hire, neither Duke nor UNC-Ch will be down for long, I think using that as a "selling point" is over stating the upside until proven otherwise.
Oh, and while you are here, your "red colored glasses" are welcome, just make sure they have some blue tinge to them
|
02-28-2017, 03:11 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Not sure where the Yow retiring soon comes from. I have never seen anything down here about that, but she has announced she will retire in June, 2019.
I personally believe Archie is staying, but in comparing programs the fact that he and his wife graduated from NCSt is a non-comparable factor that only Archie and Morgan know about. Think about it this way, if you are coaching at Wichita St and were offered the UD job as a Dayton alum, what would you do?
|
02-28-2017, 04:25 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,072
Thanks: 3,440
Thanked 4,693 Times in 2,511 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by jack72
Not sure where the Yow retiring soon comes from. I have never seen anything down here about that, but she has announced she will retire in June, 2019.
I personally believe Archie is staying, but in comparing programs the fact that he and his wife graduated from NCSt is a non-comparable factor that only Archie and Morgan know about. Think about it this way, if you are coaching at Wichita St and were offered the UD job as a Dayton alum, what would you do?
|
Unfair comparison. NC State is a cluster right now whereas the UD job would be highly coveted.
|
Mad Props to TA111 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
02-28-2017, 04:59 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by TA111
Unfair comparison. NC State is a cluster right now whereas the UD job would be highly coveted.
|
A cluster?
I prefer "unsettled", but I'm also not exactly objective.
|
02-28-2017, 08:10 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by TA111
Unfair comparison. NC State is a cluster right now whereas the UD job would be highly coveted.
|
Read it again, "the fact that he and his wife graduated from NCSt is a non-comparable factor that only Archie and Morgan know about."
That means you cannot just compare the programs.
|
03-01-2017, 12:18 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
If you put into play that Archie and his wife are alumni, NC State is a founding member of the ACC, The Duke and UNC-Ch coaches are not going to be in place much longer, recruiting and TV exposure will be higher-profile versus the A10, North Carolina has easy access to mountains and beaches and it adds up to a potentially compelling move.
|
Originally Posted by jack72
Living down here in Wake Forest, I am amazed how few UNC, Duke of NCSt games are on TV. If they are not on ESPN, CBS, NBC or ABC, they rarely are on TV. UD fans are spoiled and have a unique opportunity.
|
wolfxci,
jack72 lives down there in NC, and he seems to be saying that NC State's tv exposure is worse than UD's.
What's the story?
And one more question. Was Morgan a scholarship athlete at NC State? And if so, what sport(s)? I was just curious about that.
Last edited by ud2; 03-01-2017 at 12:21 PM..
|
03-01-2017, 12:27 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: West Carrollton
Posts: 1,208
Thanks: 550
Thanked 1,403 Times in 429 Posts
|
|
Archie was on the Evan Daniels podcast. I am about halfway through it and he says he doesnt consider coaching news/rumors during the season and spoke glowingly about Spina and Sullivan. Says UD supports things in ways not found in many places.
http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-...?autoplay=true
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...382020027&mt=2
|
5 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Flyer Al For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-01-2017, 01:09 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud2
wolfxci,
jack72 lives down there in NC, and he seems to be saying that NC State's tv exposure is worse than UD's.
What's the story?
And one more question. Was Morgan a scholarship athlete at NC State? And if so, what sport(s)? I was just curious about that.
|
I think Morgan was in track and field.
|
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-02-2017, 01:37 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Take it for what it is worth:
https://hoopdirt.com/daily-dirt-3117:
Obviously NC State is the most high profile opening to date. I’ve now heard from multiple sources, that the guy believed to be the front runner, Dayton’s Archie Miller, may in fact already be out of the running (his choice). With AD Debbie Yow paying Parker $90k to do the search, it will be interesting to see where they head. I’ve talked to a few guys who are “rumored” to be involved, and they say that no one has reached out to them yet.
Last edited by ud2; 03-02-2017 at 01:42 AM..
|
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to ud2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-02-2017, 09:53 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud2
wolfxci,
jack72 lives down there in NC, and he seems to be saying that NC State's tv exposure is worse than UD's.
What's the story?
And one more question. Was Morgan a scholarship athlete at NC State? And if so, what sport(s)? I was just curious about that.
|
Not only is NCSt's TV exposure less, but so is Duke and UNC. I am talking quantity. No doubt those schools get more prime time ESPN and big 3 channel exposure. I may be generous saying that 10 NCSt games have been on TV. The ACC does not have their network yet (I think next year), so they have nothing like the A10 deal with CBS and NBC.
Here is a nice article on Morgan.
http://m.salisburypost.com/2014/03/2...dayton-flyers/
|
Mad Props to jack72 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-03-2017, 05:33 PM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,459
Thanks: 8,430
Thanked 6,560 Times in 2,453 Posts
|
|
From this article, I take it that the writer knows or believes all the coaches mentioned are not interested in the NCState job and he is priming the fans to believe that Keatts is the best choice. What I can't understand is the "slam" at Archie about recruiting. He makes no negative remarks about the others, and it is quite a departure from other articles about Archie where he didn't cite a recruiting deficiency.
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Lifelong Flyer Fan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-03-2017, 06:03 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
From this article, I take it that the writer knows or believes all the coaches mentioned are not interested in the NCState job and he is priming the fans to believe that Keatts is the best choice. What I can't understand is the "slam" at Archie about recruiting. He makes no negative remarks about the others, and it is quite a departure from other articles about Archie where he didn't cite a recruiting deficiency.
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
The guy knows nothing special. He is a hockey writer putting out a controversial piece to stir the pot.
|
03-03-2017, 11:39 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: westerville, Ohio
Posts: 1,358
Thanks: 902
Thanked 978 Times in 480 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
From this article, I take it that the writer knows or believes all the coaches mentioned are not interested in the NCState job and he is priming the fans to believe that Keatts is the best choice. What I can't understand is the "slam" at Archie about recruiting. He makes no negative remarks about the others, and it is quite a departure from other articles about Archie where he didn't cite a recruiting deficiency.
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
Archie recruits the guys he wants, not the guys the media thinks are the best in the world.....
I'll take Archie's way every day of the week!
GO FLYERS!
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to TerryK_67 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 07:58 AM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 5,146
Thanked 5,434 Times in 2,374 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
From this article, I take it that the writer knows or believes all the coaches mentioned are not interested in the NCState job and he is priming the fans to believe that Keatts is the best choice. What I can't understand is the "slam" at Archie about recruiting. He makes no negative remarks about the others, and it is quite a departure from other articles about Archie where he didn't cite a recruiting deficiency.
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
Funny, since that's close to the year-end ranking of the Pack's whole team in the last 3 years.
|
Mad Props to Gazoo For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 08:51 AM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 1,059
Thanks: 286
Thanked 362 Times in 201 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
1) It seems that Archie competes against B5/BE schools to get recruits. It appears the teams we beat out have improved from OP to BG to Archie.
2) Archie has developed his players and created a team. Actually, TRUETEAM
3) Do transfers count in those ratings? Vee. Jordan. Charles. Josh. In today's game, with 300-400 transfers a year, Archie has found us gems.
4) If this guy is a hockey guy, it explains why his opinion is pucked up.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Bill202 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-04-2017, 10:08 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: #FlyerNation
Posts: 2,580
Thanks: 2,275
Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,119 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
From this article, I take it that the writer knows or believes all the coaches mentioned are not interested in the NCState job and he is priming the fans to believe that Keatts is the best choice. What I can't understand is the "slam" at Archie about recruiting. He makes no negative remarks about the others, and it is quite a departure from other articles about Archie where he didn't cite a recruiting deficiency.
"There’s no indication whatsoever Archie Miller wants the job when he can wait at Dayton for a Big Ten job to open. (And while State fans may like the idea of Miller returning home, do they really want a coach who got no recruiting boost from an Elite Eight? Dayton’s three classes since that NCAA run were ranked 91st, 71st and 107th in 247Sports’ composite rankings.)"
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/s...#storylink=cpy
|
2 words homie:
Click. Bait.
|
03-04-2017, 10:10 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: #FlyerNation
Posts: 2,580
Thanks: 2,275
Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,119 Posts
|
|
Archie has struck gold EVERY SINGLE TIME with the last 4 transfers.
|
03-04-2017, 10:15 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 3,942
Thanks: 4,069
Thanked 4,285 Times in 1,756 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
Archie has struck gold EVERY SINGLE TIME with the last 4 transfers.
|
Not quite if you throw a JUCO transfer in there. Another transfer from Oakland was injured, so it was hard to tell if that 5th year senior transfer was gold.
Regardless, he has done extremely well with transfers, but maybe not quite EVERY SINGLE TIME.
|
03-04-2017, 10:16 AM
|
|
Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,440
Thanks: 5,115
Thanked 5,360 Times in 2,463 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by TerryK_67
Archie recruits the guys he wants, not the guys the media thinks are the best in the world.....
I'll take Archie's way every day of the week!
GO FLYERS!
|
And twice on Sundays!
|
03-04-2017, 10:20 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: #FlyerNation
Posts: 2,580
Thanks: 2,275
Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,119 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Not quite if you throw a JUCO transfer in there. Another transfer from Oakland was injured, so it was hard to tell if that 5th year senior transfer was gold.
Regardless, he has done extremely well with transfers, but maybe not quite EVERY SINGLE TIME.
|
Technically true, but thats how forgettable those other 2 were. Rogers never played a single game and how many did Bass play? Less then 5 right?
But Point taken.
|
03-04-2017, 10:21 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 8,906
Thanks: 3,535
Thanked 3,787 Times in 1,933 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Not quite if you throw a JUCO transfer in there. Another transfer from Oakland was injured, so it was hard to tell if that 5th year senior transfer was gold.
Regardless, he has done extremely well with transfers, but maybe not quite EVERY SINGLE TIME.
|
Geesh, no one is perfect but I'll take Archie with his "Flaws ".
|
03-06-2017, 07:56 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
Archie has struck gold EVERY SINGLE TIME with the last 4 transfers.
|
Just curious, who was the 4th transfer? Vee, Jordan, and Charles stand-out immediately as "Gold", if not "Platinum". Not sure who #4 is.
Note: I turn 55 this month, so this might be a "senior moment" on my part.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
03-06-2017, 08:04 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,041
Thanks: 8,803
Thanked 8,557 Times in 3,702 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Just curious, who was the 4th transfer? Vee, Jordan, and Charles stand-out immediately as "Gold", if not "Platinum". Not sure who #4 is.
Note: I turn 55 this month, so this might be a "senior moment" on my part.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
My hunch is #4 on his list is the guy who will average a double double for us next season. Cunningham.
|
03-06-2017, 08:06 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Sounds like a good guy who was just overmatched at that level. Also, might have been a bit too long-in-the-tooth to take-on an assignment like that for the first time (he must have been @ 59 when he started there 3 years ago).
IMHO, Mizzou is probably looking for a top program's top assistant, or a coach on the rise at a lower tier conference in the midwest/midsouth (Horizon, Summit, SWAC, etc.).
Posted via Mobile Device
|
03-06-2017, 08:11 AM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
My hunch is #4 on his list is the guy who will average a double double for us next season. Cunningham.
|
Ah, yes, that's it. By the time Mr. Cunningham finishes here, he'll probably be Sergeant At Arms of that fraternity.
And I missed him because (a) he'd missed so much time with his ankle injury that now my focus is squarely on the Seniors finishing what they started 3 years ago, and (b) my own gray matter.
Thanks, Clayton!
Posted via Mobile Device
|
03-06-2017, 08:22 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Rumor is Mizzou is on Cal's Cuonzo Martin. That sounds like a terrible idea.
|
03-06-2017, 10:40 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,521
Thanks: 125
Thanked 1,956 Times in 534 Posts
|
|
From Pat Forde's latest column on the latest from the coaching carousel:
"Thad Matta will return at Ohio State, sources told Yahoo Sports. There had been speculation that health issues might persuade him to step down...
Back issues have plagued the 49-year-old for years, and the combination of physical discomfort and declining returns led to speculation that he may be ready to walk away. However, a well-connected industry insider said flatly Monday night that the Ohio State job 'is not going to open.'"
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports...032351523.html
|
03-06-2017, 11:56 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Hmmm. Didn't realize Matta wasn't even 50 yet. No wonder he's in no rush to retire. If I was in a profession where guys work until until they're in their 60s, and I was pulling down $3+ bills a year to do what I do, I wouldn't want to retire either.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
03-07-2017, 12:37 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Tom "Crean’s future is unclear at this point"...
|
03-07-2017, 07:52 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
|
Mad Props to priceg75 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 08:28 AM
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,785
Thanks: 401
Thanked 1,735 Times in 1,009 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
|
And I'd think 3 of those guys would cream their ____ for that job..
|
03-07-2017, 09:23 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 3,227
Thanks: 1,484
Thanked 1,912 Times in 1,082 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
|
If they got Tony Bennett they would have someone who could sing Indiana's praises!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2c3wObvUUo
|
03-07-2017, 09:24 AM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
|
I wonder if Donovan wants to move back to college, with his team heading towards the playoffs, it may be late June before IU could hire him, which would be a logistic nightmare, but probably worth it in the long run.
I don't get the sense that Brad Stevens is ready to leave Boston, they have a good core and a ton of draft picks that could develop into a dynasty in the next 3 seasons.
Marshall has been selective, could IU afford him? I assume Crean has a healthy buy out, and I assume Marshall does as well, throw in the $4 mil he'd probably command a year and its a lot of coin. Unless the Koch brothers are IU fans, its going to be hard to match what they would fork over to keep him (especially if they are going to make the move to the AAC)
Don't know about Bennett, obviously a good coach, young and a great defense. Grew up in Wisconsin, so he's familiar w/ the midwest.
I still think Scott Drew will be their next coach. Unless he has ties to the mess that is the Baylor athletic department, I think it just makes too much sense for both sides, but Archie would certainly be under consideration I would think.
|
03-07-2017, 09:34 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Medford
I wonder if Donovan wants to move back to college, with his team heading towards the playoffs, it may be late June before IU could hire him, which would be a logistic nightmare, but probably worth it in the long run.
|
This would actually be perfect, because Crean's buyout drops from $4M to $1M after July 1. But I don't get the sense that the buyout is going to deter IU from firing Crean.
|
03-07-2017, 10:47 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
|
In other words Archie is still at the top of the list, because they ain't touchin' those four.
|
03-07-2017, 11:01 AM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
This would actually be perfect, because Crean's buyout drops from $4M to $1M after July 1. But I don't get the sense that the buyout is going to deter IU from firing Crean.
|
good point. If they are waiting until after that July 1 buyout, then an NBA guy, or someone who is currently not employed makes the most sense. If Archie left on April 2nd, I wouldn't be happy, but I'd understand. If he left on July 2nd, I'd be ****ed.
though I imagine if they do decide to let Crean go, they will reach a settlement for somewhere closer to the $1 mil, otherwise they will just tell him he's getting Creaned on July 1st, and go about their search with everything becoming official on July 2nd, which would be ugly for all parties involved.
|
03-07-2017, 11:02 AM
|
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,040
Thanks: 1,435
Thanked 1,367 Times in 537 Posts
|
|
ESPN posted their "Official Guide to March Madness". They are helping people out with who to pay attention to.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...al-guide-march
They have a section for coaches to pay attention to if your team is looking for a new coach. Here is the quote on Archie (the first coach on their list):
"Archie Miller
The rumors will follow Miller, who will lead Dayton to its fourth consecutive NCAA tournament appearance this year, until -- if -- he decides to leave his current post. He's not just Sean Miller's brother. He's the hottest coaching prospect in America."
Nothing earth shattering there, but the talk will continue...
Other coaches mentioned are Wade, Keatts, Chris Holtmann and Tom Crean.
|
03-07-2017, 11:08 AM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,459
Thanks: 8,430
Thanked 6,560 Times in 2,453 Posts
|
|
Saw these yesterday, dated 3-5
CrimsonCast @CrimsonCast
@HoosierStofMind Plenty of good potential replacements. Start with a list of Miller / Donovan / Miller / Holtmann / Collins / Mack / Alford.
HoosierStateofMindVerified account @HoosierStofMind
Also read from a couple of connected writers that if Archie Miller was to be offered, he would turn it down. If true, that's telling.
|
03-07-2017, 11:34 AM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Archie is #1 on most people's wish list in Raleigh, but most also think he'll pass on the NC State job. There are still some poepl holding out hope, and the rumor is that NC State might make the offer in the $4 million / year range, but I think Miller stays at Dayton.
The other names getting a lot of hype are Keatts, Holtman, Wade & Drew.
Since I have no team in the NCAA this year, I'll be pulling for the Flyers.
|
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to wolfxci For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 11:39 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by jack72
In other words Archie is still at the top of the list, because they ain't touchin' those four.
|
In lurking IU's boards, they mention Sean Miller more often than Archie.
|
03-07-2017, 11:48 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
In lurking IU's boards, they mention Sean Miller more often than Archie.
|
and that is the reason to not take that job. The fan base is over the top nuts. Sean Miller is going to leave Tucson and the Pac 12 for Bloomington and the Big 10?
|
03-07-2017, 11:50 AM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
They feel like they should be Kentucky, and the fact that Kentucky is RIGHT NEXT DOOR doing Kentucky things rankles them to no end.
I would agree that if I were Archie I wouldn't want any part of that coach-eating job. But with the right person... it probably could be Kentucky.
|
03-07-2017, 02:57 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,406
Thanks: 866
Thanked 6,301 Times in 3,004 Posts
|
|
"Names hearing on top of NC State's wish list are Butler's Chris Holtmann and VCU's Will Wade. Will be interesting to see if Debbie Yow can get either."
Jeff Goodman, ESPN Insider
|
03-07-2017, 03:09 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,616
Thanks: 3,383
Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,418 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Take it for what it's worth, but I have talked to some people that are in the know when it comes to coaching searches. The names I continue to hear are Chris Holtmann and Will Wade for the NC State job. It is still extremely early, I am sure NC State will still make are run at Archie (As they should), but those are the 2 names that I have heard to lookout for. Like I said, take it for what it's worth. You can never really predict how these searches will go, especially this far out. But Holtmann and Wade are who I would watch.
|
Originally Posted by Sea Bass
"Names hearing on top of NC State's wish list are Butler's Chris Holtmann and VCU's Will Wade. Will be interesting to see if Debbie Yow can get either."
Jeff Goodman, ESPN Insider
|
Looks like my friends that I talked to back on Feb 17th know what they are talking about. I may need to hit them up more often.
|
03-07-2017, 03:48 PM
|
|
1st Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 43 Times in 27 Posts
|
|
My thought is Archie is waiting for a scenario like this.
Calipari stays at Kentucky 3 more years and then his son graduates. Cal would then retire or go to the NBA. I think the Kentucky job would be Archie's. He wouldn't pass that job up and I wouldn't blame him. Cal makes over 8.5 mil a year now and they would throw around 6-7 mil a year to get Archie.
|
03-07-2017, 03:59 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,616
Thanks: 3,383
Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,418 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud99
My thought is Archie is waiting for a scenario like this.
Calipari stays at Kentucky 3 more years and then his son graduates. Cal would then retire or go to the NBA. I think the Kentucky job would be Archie's. He wouldn't pass that job up and I wouldn't blame him. Cal makes over 8.5 mil a year now and they would throw around 6-7 mil a year to get Archie.
|
If do not see Archie going from UD to UK. I think there would have to be another stop in between. IU, OSU, Florida, Arizona is Sean leaves, jobs like that should be Archie's next step. Schools like Duke, UK, UNC, Kansas are not going to hire somebody that does not have P5 success unless they hire Mark Few or Gregg Marshall. I do not think Archie is quite on the level yet.
|
03-07-2017, 04:53 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Well hopefully in 3 seasons, Archie has meet or exceeded the performances of Gregg Marshall and Mark Few. But at any rate, Duke hired Coach K from that bastion of power Army. Kansas hired Roy Williams from the assistant coaching role at UNC. A smart AD doesn't worry about P5 success, they have a list of coaches that they are ready to contact the instance they need to talk to a new coach and it doesn't really matter where they come from.
There may be no bigger pressure cooker in college basketball than the head coaching job at Kentucky. If their AD is worth his salt, he realizes that some day Cal is going to walk away; may be in 3 seasons when he son graduates, may be this off season to the Pelicans, may be in 15 years. He's also likely had open and honest discussions with Cal about what he wants to do, money is not an issue, and I'm pretty sure they'll keep him at or near the top of the coaching pay scale, give him every resource he asks for, etc... Cal stepping away will be about his desires in life, not about UK failing to give him anything he's looking for that is in the realm of possibilities. If their AD is smart, he's got a list of 20 or more guys that he's "watching" perhaps 5 that he would reach out to tomorrow if Cal left, and a handful of other guys that he's watching to see how they handle different situations, how they recruit, what kind of scandal or dirt get thrown their way, how they handle the media and interact in public settings, etc.. If he (or she) is smart, they will be ready to pounce the instance they need to and feel pretty confident that they can land one of their top 2 or 3 prospects.
|
03-07-2017, 05:16 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,840
Thanks: 2,659
Thanked 1,933 Times in 910 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by m21eagle45
If do not see Archie going from UD to UK. I think there would have to be another stop in between. IU, OSU, Florida, Arizona is Sean leaves, jobs like that should be Archie's next step. Schools like Duke, UK, UNC, Kansas are not going to hire somebody that does not have P5 success unless they hire Mark Few or Gregg Marshall. I do not think Archie is quite on the level yet.
|
I agree. I don't see Archie making a leap from Dayton to Kentucky, not because he would pass, but because UK would almost certainly be targeting some higher profile, more seasoned and experienced (Final Fours, multiple Sweet 16's, etc.) coaches.
Now, if Archie gets UD to a Final Four and a Sweet 16 in the next 3 years, the bar will have been raised.
|
03-07-2017, 05:20 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,840
Thanks: 2,659
Thanked 1,933 Times in 910 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Medford
Well hopefully in 3 seasons, Archie has meet or exceeded the performances of Gregg Marshall and Mark Few. But at any rate, Duke hired Coach K from that bastion of power Army. Kansas hired Roy Williams from the assistant coaching role at UNC. A smart AD doesn't worry about P5 success, they have a list of coaches that they are ready to contact the instance they need to talk to a new coach and it doesn't really matter where they come from.
|
What Duke did 35 years ago is not the norm, so to suggest that's a likely scenario for a current AD to take is a real stretch. Plus, Duke in 1980 isn't what Duke is in 2017.
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to SLUFLYER For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 05:22 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,897
Thanks: 1,341
Thanked 1,302 Times in 674 Posts
|
|
While UK is a huge lure, I have to wonder if a guy like Archie would work well in that environment. They have so many one and done players, plus Archie is a huge defense guy as we all know, and I suspect many of the UK recruits are not nearly as interested in playing D as playing O. To me, it makes more sense for a Duke/NC/Kansas/... type of school than what UK has turned into.
|
03-07-2017, 05:37 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
2 words homie:
Click. Bait.
|
2 more words, with a nod to Don Rickles: Hockey Puck!
Posted via Mobile Device
|
03-07-2017, 05:43 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
What Duke did 35 years ago is not the norm, so to suggest that's a likely scenario for a current AD to take is a real stretch. Plus, Duke in 1980 isn't what Duke is in 2017.
|
While Duke wasn't in 1980 what it is today, its not like it was terrible, they were in 3 or 4 final 4s in the 60s, an NIT final 4 in the early 70s, down for a few years, then back in the NCAA finals in 1978 and back to the NCAA in 79, its not like they were an after thought, they were really, really good with a ton of history.
If I was an AD, and my job was on the line, I wouldn't worry about what the "norm" was, I'd worry about getting the best coach, regardless of where they are. Obviously a program of such prestige is not going to just go hire a coach still wet behind the ears b/c the made 1 or 2 good runs, they're going to take a coach that has proven themselves over multiple classes, handled multiple situations, have experience to fall back on when things are not right. I'd agree that Archie isn't at that level "yet" at least the multiple deep runs and great seasons, but there are few coaches that have had to deal with the multitude of "situations" he's had to face. Suspending his 2 post players and playing w/ 6 scholarship players into the 2nd game of the tournament, losing his best player for a half a season due to title IX issues, having a developing NBA big man who set the school's single season block record dying in the middle of the offseason, then having his two best remaining post players both out for extended time early in the season. All I know, if I'm the AD at any school in the country, I have my eye on Archie and what he's doing, what he's overcame. I have him on the list of possibilities for my job. Perhaps there are better, easier to sell choices out there at the moment, but he's on my list of coaches that I'm paying attention to, and that was my point.
|
03-07-2017, 05:45 PM
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,733
Thanks: 673
Thanked 4,320 Times in 2,124 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
While UK is a huge lure, I have to wonder if a guy like Archie would work well in that environment. They have so many one and done players, plus Archie is a huge defense guy as we all know, and I suspect many of the UK recruits are not nearly as interested in playing D as playing O. To me, it makes more sense for a Duke/NC/Kansas/... type of school than what UK has turned into.
|
I agree with that, that job is such a pressure cooker, it takes a coach that loves the media, loves being the spotlight to handle that job. Archie has never struck me as a coach that loves being in the spotlight the way Cal does, he's a gym rat, that loves coaching basketball best. Would he be willing to sacrifice a good chunk of his privacy for a job like UK?
|
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Medford For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 05:53 PM
|
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,414
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,994 Times in 2,668 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
I agree. I don't see Archie making a leap from Dayton to Kentucky, not because he would pass, but because UK would almost certainly be targeting some higher profile, more seasoned and experienced (Final Fours, multiple Sweet 16's, etc.) coaches.
Now, if Archie gets UD to a Final Four and a Sweet 16 in the next 3 years, the bar will have been raised.
|
That's why I think Archie is willing to wait for a prime job like UK to open up. He's more about "accomplishments" than "status". He wants to be a big fish and win championships. Where he does it is a secondary concern, at least for now. Now, if he gets to the point where he's won 5 A-10 Championships in a row (good lord, let's hope so!), that's when he'll want to prove something at a higher level, and that's when we'll lose him.
Posted via Mobile Device
|
Mad Props to T-Bone 84 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 06:05 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,840
Thanks: 2,659
Thanked 1,933 Times in 910 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Medford
While Duke wasn't in 1980 what it is today, its not like it was terrible, they were in 3 or 4 final 4s in the 60s, an NIT final 4 in the early 70s, down for a few years, then back in the NCAA finals in 1978 and back to the NCAA in 79, its not like they were an after thought, they were really, really good with a ton of history.
If I was an AD, and my job was on the line, I wouldn't worry about what the "norm" was, I'd worry about getting the best coach, regardless of where they are. Obviously a program of such prestige is not going to just go hire a coach still wet behind the ears b/c the made 1 or 2 good runs, they're going to take a coach that has proven themselves over multiple classes, handled multiple situations, have experience to fall back on when things are not right. I'd agree that Archie isn't at that level "yet" at least the multiple deep runs and great seasons, but there are few coaches that have had to deal with the multitude of "situations" he's had to face. Suspending his 2 post players and playing w/ 6 scholarship players into the 2nd game of the tournament, losing his best player for a half a season due to title IX issues, having a developing NBA big man who set the school's single season block record dying in the middle of the offseason, then having his two best remaining post players both out for extended time early in the season. All I know, if I'm the AD at any school in the country, I have my eye on Archie and what he's doing, what he's overcame. I have him on the list of possibilities for my job. Perhaps there are better, easier to sell choices out there at the moment, but he's on my list of coaches that I'm paying attention to, and that was my point.
|
I get that point, it's very valid. A great AD will have all of that information in his evaluation of potential candidates. BUT, what was typed that triggered this UK thing was "In three years, when/if Cal leaves, the job is Archie's". To suggest that Archie would have first pass at such a job in three years (short of the suggested runs to FF and SW16's) is a real stretch.
Last edited by SLUFLYER; 03-07-2017 at 06:09 PM..
|
03-07-2017, 06:19 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jamestown
Posts: 454
Thanks: 1,026
Thanked 138 Times in 81 Posts
|
|
Can't see a gym rat like AM at UK. I'd like to hope our coach prefers a different path to winning than the UK model. I think that's obvious.
|
03-07-2017, 07:00 PM
|
Captain
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 478
Thanks: 92
Thanked 337 Times in 182 Posts
|
|
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
BRAD STEVENS??? They must have some good dope in Indiana
|
Mad Props to AZFlyer85 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 07:13 PM
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,202
Thanks: 385
Thanked 2,312 Times in 1,011 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by OCFlyer85
I think IU fans would be happy with Archie, but I also hear that their list is something like this:
Billy Donovan
Brad Stevens
Gregg Marshall
Tony Bennett
So I think Archie is far from their #1 candidate. They want a name who is going to guarantee a return to the top-10.
If IU and OSU do not come calling... are we safe another year?
BRAD STEVENS??? They must have some good dope in Indiana
|
IU fans sure are funny!!
|
03-07-2017, 09:02 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,521
Thanks: 125
Thanked 1,956 Times in 534 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ud2
Tom "Crean’s future is unclear at this point"...
|
Reading more and more that Crean to Missouri is a possibility. Saves Crean from being fired and saves IU paying the buyout. IU fans are certainly delusional with some of their "candidates", but that is one of the few P5 jobs where basketball is the clear #1 sport over football.
|
03-07-2017, 10:36 PM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post
|
|
Another NCSU fan chiming in briefly here. I don't think Archie is coming home but I'd love it if he did. I think we'll end up with Will Wade or maybe Kevin Keatts (UNCW) but it all depends on how y'all and VCU do in the NCAAT. I think Archie has seen first hand how good and how bad our fans can be and it would be stepping into a tremendous amount of immediate pressure to come here and he knows it. He's seen the ups as a player and the downs as an assistant under Herb. If he blows it with us, it's gonna really set him back. If he goes straight to a blue blood, he can blow it and the fall back down to a "regular" P5 school. On the other hand, he could come back to his alma mater and be a legend when the ACC goes through a HOF coaching shuffle in the next few years, but I think he waits for tOSU or something like that. I think Marshall will go to IU. Bennett is not leaving UVA - he's a god there and UVA is a great school and a nice place to live.
The other thing I wanted to mention (I didn't read through all of the posts so apologies if it has been spoken to already) is that Gottfried wasn't fired for the win/loss column. As another alum said above, we had some great times under him and he raised the profile of our program. I have no ill will toward the guy. However, it wasn't widely published (because the hot takes loved to push the stat lines only) but he COMPLETELY lost control of the locker room, and had been on the verge of it in previous seasons. There are multiple accounts of players fighting with him/staff during practice (Anya sitting games - not to mention his weight saga), players saying "**** you" to staff during games when told to pay attention, players openly quarreling with other players, players re-tweeting rumors that Gott was going to be fired!, etc. Look at how many players left early or transferred from State. I get that players leave but not like the attrition we saw. Players and coaches (Lutz) left and then tweeted stuff against him. There were also rumors all around town that he was running around on his wife (they later separated/divorced) and that players' parents were concerned about the example he was setting. The atmosphere was described by several sources close the the program as "toxic". Gott helped us out and while the past couple of seasons were disappointing given the level of talent, there was way more to the decision - especially mid-season.
|
8 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to ncsuallday For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-07-2017, 11:01 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Miami Twp.
Posts: 3,342
Thanks: 268
Thanked 2,234 Times in 1,038 Posts
|
|
Watched NCSU-Clemson today, couldn't really believe how big Anya is. Never remember him being that big before.
|
03-08-2017, 07:45 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: #FlyerNation
Posts: 2,580
Thanks: 2,275
Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,119 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by priceg75
couldn't really believe how big Anya is. Never remember him being that big before.
|
Thats what she said
|
Mad Props to BRob2Perryman3 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-08-2017, 08:34 AM
|
1st Lieutenant
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 159
Thanks: 265
Thanked 110 Times in 57 Posts
|
|
I've been impressed with the rational, reasonable comments from the NC State fans who have posted here. For all the talk about their 'crazy' fan base, I'm glad those people seem to stick to their own boards. I hope UD fans who visit other boards are our rational, reasonable posters
Win or lose on Archie, good luck to you guys.
|
03-08-2017, 10:14 AM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Troy, OH
Posts: 2,879
Thanks: 7,158
Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,110 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by ncsuallday
Bennett is not leaving UVA - he's a god there and UVA is a great school and a nice place to live.
|
The same thing could be said about Archie Miller here at UD.
|
Mad Props to JimBo For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-08-2017, 10:23 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,162
Thanks: 17,552
Thanked 10,134 Times in 5,868 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by JimBo
The same thing could be said about Archie Miller here at UD.
|
I agree with you, except. The one factor that we know bothers all of us, and maybe Archie, is the league we play in. VA plays in a top league. The one thing we all know that might push Archie to the likes of Indiana, etc is a better league. That gets a high achiever coach access to better recruits, and a better seed in the tourney. UD cannot buy those thing.
|
03-08-2017, 10:27 AM
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,785
Thanks: 401
Thanked 1,735 Times in 1,009 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by JimBo
The same thing could be said about Archie Miller here at UD.
|
You lost me with Dayton being a "nice place" to live. Cheap, yes..
|
03-08-2017, 11:25 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,431
Thanks: 6,787
Thanked 6,126 Times in 4,171 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by jack72
I agree with you, except. The one factor that we know bothers all of us, and maybe Archie, is the league we play in. VA plays in a top league. The one thing we all know that might push Archie to the likes of Indiana, etc is a better league. That gets a high achiever coach access to better recruits, and a better seed in the tourney. UD cannot buy those thing.
|
Gonzaga and Wichita State? 5 star players and 1 seeds.
Last edited by ud2; 03-08-2017 at 11:28 AM..
|
03-08-2017, 11:41 AM
|
Just off the Jet
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Wallage
I've been impressed with the rational, reasonable comments from the NC State fans who have posted here. For all the talk about their 'crazy' fan base, I'm glad those people seem to stick to their own boards. I hope UD fans who visit other boards are our rational, reasonable posters
Win or lose on Archie, good luck to you guys.
|
This is going to sound a little "conspiracy theory", but the proximity to UNC-Ch and the unbelievable love fest the media has with the UNC-Ch BB program casts NCSU in a poor media light. Every hero needs a nemesis. UNC-Ch has always been the "hero", so historically NCSU was cast as the "villain". Starting in the early 90's the UNC rivalry with Duke became huge because Duke got REALLY successful and NCSU got really bad. Now NC State is seen as the evil, jealous, mentally unstable "little brother" and several media members appear to take every possible chance to reinforce this stereotype.
Based on reading other team boards, the NCSU fans aren't really any different than anywhere else. Some are certifiably nuts, most are not at all objective, almost all love to see a rival lose and all want to see their program win.
NC State has a very rich basketball tradition that is fading further into the past. The University wants to win, but not at the expense of the core mission of the school (unlike our neighbor in Chapel Hill). Most NCSU fans see Archie as the best option at winning the right way because he's done such a wonderful job at Dayton. We want him, you want to keep him. It all makes sense.
FWIW, I agree that Archie coaching a "blue blood" program in the future seems likely. However, he will never, ever, ever coach at UNC-Ch. The UNC-Ch administration would not under any circumstances allow an NC State alum to lead their basketball program. It would take a shift of seismic proportions for that mind set to change.
|
03-08-2017, 11:59 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by wolfxci
This is going to sound a little "conspiracy theory", but the proximity to UNC-Ch and the unbelievable love fest the media has with the UNC-Ch BB program casts NCSU in a poor media light. Every hero needs a nemesis. UNC-Ch has always been the "hero", so historically NCSU was cast as the "villain". Starting in the early 90's the UNC rivalry with Duke became huge because Duke got REALLY successful and NCSU got really bad. Now NC State is seen as the evil, jealous, mentally unstable "little brother" and several media members appear to take every possible chance to reinforce this stereotype.
Based on reading other team boards, the NCSU fans aren't really any different than anywhere else. Some are certifiably nuts, most are not at all objective, almost all love to see a rival lose and all want to see their program win.
NC State has a very rich basketball tradition that is fading further into the past. The University wants to win, but not at the expense of the core mission of the school (unlike our neighbor in Chapel Hill). Most NCSU fans see Archie as the best option at winning the right way because he's done such a wonderful job at Dayton. We want him, you want to keep him. It all makes sense.
FWIW, I agree that Archie coaching a "blue blood" program in the future seems likely. However, he will never, ever, ever coach at UNC-Ch. The UNC-Ch administration would not under any circumstances allow an NC State alum to lead their basketball program. It would take a shift of seismic proportions for that mind set to change.
|
I would hate to see Archie leave but if he did, I would like to think I would wish him well. One thing is certain, if he left for a place that he could kick Duke and UNC-Ch asses twice a year, there would be no question that I would be rooting for him.
wolfxci - You may not have been lurking around here long enough to know but most Flyer fans are not too high on Duke and coach K and UNC-Ch and ol Roy.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|