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  #1  
Old 10-25-2017, 05:36 PM
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New 2017 Postseason Tournament

A second post-season volleyball tournament will begin this year. The National Invitational Volleyball Championship will give each of the 32 conferences an automatic bid based on best conference record on teams that didn't make the NCAA. Then they will take the best remaining 32 teams in the RPI that aren't in NCAA or one of the automatic 32 based on record. All games on campus sites, and bracket will be announced after the NCAA announces theirs.

Based on how things are going in the A10, whomever of VCU/UD doesn't get into NCAA will get in this one. Saint Louis being at 152 seems to be too far out to get one of the other 32 spots.

Womens NIVC
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2017, 01:58 PM
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Since the Flyers are a lock into this tournament, I'm just going to add some other interesting post-season information here.

Based on conference tournaments, and such, there are 17 teams above the Figgie RPI w/ Bonuses above RPI 50. (RPI 51 James Madison is first on this list.). Therefore, that leaves 51 teams to get into the NCAA dance. There are 6 teams with bids below RPI 50, but just looking at TOP 50 in general makes you wonder who is going to get snubbed. Also, you have Ohio State at FigAdj RPI 42 with a 14-15 record. They need to win both games to be able to get in, so that's possible another bid lost.

So, at RPI 52 and below, which teams will miss?

#1 High Point - FigAdj RPI 45 - lost in the Big South to Radford, and are 0-4 top 50.
#2 College of Charleston - FigAdj RPI 50 - top 50 1-1
#3 Dayton - FigAdj 53 - 1-7 Top 50
#4 Missouri State (44)/Northern Iowa (48) - both 4-4 top 50, but MVC tournament not completed.
#5 North Texas (52) - But 2-1 top 50, can they get in?
#6 Hawaii (39) - top 50 1-7 - Hawaii is perennially in the tournament. Would they kick them out?

So, who between 50 and 65 will get in then?
#1 North Carolina (60) - 3-10 top 50
#2 Butler (54) - 2-4 top 50
#3 (maybe) Villanova (68) - 2-4 top 50

So, seeing this, now I wonder. I figure High Point, with no top 50 wins will be this years snub. Hawaii could get snubbed, I just don't see it happening. So, the question will be if they choose College of Charleston, Dayton or North Texas with 2 bids, or will they only take 1 of them and take Butler at #54?

This year might be more interesting than I had previously thought. I may need to rethink my desire to watch the NCAA Tournament Show for Volleyball this year.

Edit: I missed Howard from the MEAC. So, 18 teams above RPI 50. Therefore, who at RPI 50 or below at this point in time, will get snubbed by someone between RPI 50 and 65, or so. Butler over High Point would be my guess. Maybe it will be that simple?

Edit #2: This is volleyball, not basketball, so there are only 64 teams, not 68. My numbers are now off by 4. So, I've chosen everyone through RPI 48, missing High Point and Ohio State, to give the 46 schools under RPI 50 to get in. Hawaii is the one questionable with only 1 top 50 win. #52 North Texas is 2-1, #54 Butler is 2-4, #60 North Carolina is 3-10.

Last edited by Figgie123; 11-20-2017 at 02:17 PM..
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:54 PM
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Just an update ... I just saw a new post by the NIVC that it will be a 32-team field this year, not a 64-field team.

NIVC Link
Originally Posted by NIVC
The tournament field will consist of 32 teams, with matches in Rounds 1 and 2 held back-to-back on Nov. 28-Dec. 1 at eight of the participating schools. The event will play through the championship game, hosted at one of the two remaining schools and broadcast on ESPN3.
So, 8 first/second round hosts for 4 teams each. Final round at one of the 2 teams playing. Not sure about third/semifinal rounds.

With Dayton having a 53 RPI, I'd think they could be one of the host schools. But, who knows.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:48 PM
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I read up on it last night and did the rundown of who I thought might get in. tOSU will probably be the favorite to win it if they don't get into the NCAA.

I'm not sure what the value of this tournament really is??? I wonder how many teams will pass??? For Dayton, they don't play anyone this week. Usually they had a match between the A10 and announcement Sunday. The team probably gets to go home for Thanksgiving this year. First time in a long time. So would they come back and start practicing for this? They would play A week from tomorrow (Tuesday) if they accept a bid. It all seems a little weird from a schedule dynamic.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:37 AM
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It depends on how the conference championships go, but if I remember right (always suspect these days - welcome to your 50s) I don't remember too many teams with rips in the 50s getting at large bids to the NCAAs. Mid 40s seems to be the cutoff and some years not even that.

Dayton had one bad loss (Illinois State). I don't know if that was a win if it would have moved us into the low 40s? We beat one team with a better rpi which was High Point and they might not get in. We then beat every team we should have beaten. And we needed to knock off one team. That didn't happen. Too many injuries early when we played most of those matches which caused a lot of new rotations and system changes.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
It depends on how the conference championships go, but if I remember right (always suspect these days - welcome to your 50s) I don't remember too many teams with rips in the 50s getting at large bids to the NCAAs. Mid 40s seems to be the cutoff and some years not even that.
There are only 2 conference championships left, Missouri Valley and Big East. The big conferences do not do championships, therefore, it basically the best RPI's of those conferences. Then we have one-off games like UD has done in the past which could help a team improve an RPI, but the selection committee should have an RPI sheet before that even occurs.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:18 PM
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I know the big conferences don't have tournaments. I did not know there were only 2 conference tournaments left to decide before selection Sunday. I thought there were more on the last weekend, but like I said, memory after you get into your 50s isn't what it use to be.

Thanks figgie!
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:42 PM
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So, how about a nice update regarding NCAA bids and all.

Ohio State beat Maryland this week, so Ohio State is at 15-15 with a game at Illinois on Saturday. Playing in the Big10 has them with a top 5 SOS, and a 3-15 top 50 record. Losses don't matter, but wins do, so the game is a play-in game for Ohio State on Saturday.

Maryland losing, moves their 3-14 top 50 record into FigAdjRPI 54. That's behind College of Charleston, with a 3-2 top 50 at FigAdjRPI 48.

Iowa (45) plays at Nebraska on Saturday as well. That bunch of 45-55 teams, with 3 top 50 wins...I think 1 is going to get left out, most likely a non-big-5 school. (College of Charleston)

MVC semi-finals are today, with a final tomorrow. Can only guess that the 2 best teams will be in the final, and one will get to 5 top 50 wins, while the other stays at 4, and both get in with mid 40 RPIs. (Though, Missouri State could make it to under 40 if they win it all.) (An upset here, takes away that 3-win top 50 team above...)

BE semifinals start today, with finals tomorrow. A Butler win might help their cause, but they and Villanova could steal a bid as well.

Hawaii is upto AdjRpi 36. But, still 1 top 50 win. Missouri and LSU are comparable to Hawaii in resume, so that is interesting. 1 top 50 win, but Missouri has SOS 29, versus Hawaii 63 and LSU 57.

It's coming down to the wire. I'd bet the selection committee is already in the room figuring out Penn State will host Stony Brook, Long Island, and American.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2017, 05:13 PM
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Your PSU prediction is dead on. And the silver lining is they can't send UD to PSU for a forth straight year.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:49 PM
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Still a few games not in the books, but nothing that will change things much. Ohio State lost, therefore, no NCAA bid for them under .500.

High Point at AdjRPI39 will be this year's snub, if you can call it. Again, no top 50 wins, and that seems a consistent thing in the brackets that are produced. I also have College of Charleston and North Texas at 46 and 47 AdjRPI and 3 and 2 top 50 wins, respectively, and both will be left out for 3 Big5 schools just below them.

49-51 is NC State, Iowa and Maryland, with 4, 3 and top 50 wins. (Losses don't matter .... 8, 14 and 14, btw. ) Then, Dayton at 52.

Still curious if they will even think about going down to AdjRpi 71, North Carolina, since they have 3 top 50 wins, though they are 14-14.

Maybe LSU at AdjRPI 46, with 1 top 50 win will miss and they will let Charleston or NTexas slide in with more top 50 wins.

Tomorrow we will find out everything.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:57 AM
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I keep going back and forth between if UD should accept or decline an invite to this new post season tourney. Now that we know tOSU will be invited, I wonder if they will accept. I'm leaning towards they will not. And not that we would or should follow their lead, but I think the reasons for declining an invite are the same... two programs that play for the NCAAs every year and that is and will remain our program standard. Anything less isn't on our radar screen.

To be honest, the only plus I can come up with is if we used this tournament as an extra Spring season match up. I might be tempted to release the senior class from volleyball activity and line up our returning players for this tournament. In other words, close the book on this year and start preparing for the next and this tournament would offer some solid matchups in that light.

What I "fear" this tournament will become is post season play for a lot of conference 2nd and 3rd place teams from conferences that are always one-bid conferences. And granted the A10 has been a one bid conference in recent years, we have dominated as the team that is that bid.

So unless we want to get a head start on 2018, I'm not sure we accept this invitation. It will be interesting to see who does.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:02 AM
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I think Charleston gets in and I think if there is a spot open, North TX gets in. I don't think these two teams get bumped for teams from bigger conferences with worse rpis this year. Just a gut feeling. They might not make it because there are no more spots, but I don't think they will get jumped if there is an open spot.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:23 AM
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Not that it specifically matters, but NIVC listed their 15 automatic qualifiers who were invited and accepted, and both Charleston and North Texas is listed. I don't think that means that they are out of the NCAA, but that they will go if they don't get NCAA. Interestingly, High Point isn't listed in that list. They were #1 in Big South, but lost in conference tournament.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:48 PM
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I am sort of lost. Does UD get in the NCAA or not?
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:01 PM
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UD did not get the automatic bid, and their resume is probably not good enough for an at large bid. The selection is tonight for the NCAA tournament.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
Not that it specifically matters, but NIVC listed their 15 automatic qualifiers who were invited and accepted, and both Charleston and North Texas is listed. I don't think that means that they are out of the NCAA, but that they will go if they don't get NCAA. Interestingly, High Point isn't listed in that list. They were #1 in Big South, but lost in conference tournament.
I just did a run down using figgie adjusted rpi, and it put Charleston as the last in and No TX the first out. The NCAA rpi is always a little different, so these two are probably out. I don't think we ever see the actual rpi they use???? They update for the final selections, but I don't think they publish another one until after the tournament is over???? That's how it use to be, but it may have changed. We might get an updated rpi this week????
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:29 PM
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As of 7:30 pm, these are the 15 teams (there will be 32 total) listed on the NIVC tournament field page:

Albany
Temple
Sacramento St
College of Charleston
North Texas
Bowling Green
Maryland Eastern Shore
Wyoming
Bryant
SIUE
Stephen F Austin
Oral Roberts
Texas St
Alabama A & M
Pacific

Ohio St and Dayton have probably been invited, but either declined or have not decided.

Last edited by BeckysTXA; 11-26-2017 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:21 PM
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Col of Charleston made it in. Dayton listed as one of the 4 just out. With Maryland, Iowa and I think No Texas if I remember. We needed one more top 50 win and we should not have list to I think it was ILL St.

If Iowa, Maryland and Ohio St play in the NIVC, we should too to start preparing for next season.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:22 PM
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High Point and College of Charleston both got in. Amazing. Would not have thought that could happen.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:33 PM
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It's going to be interesting interesting how the NIVC pulls this all together to get their field set, host sites committed and playing by Tuesday.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:37 AM
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We had our chances this year but did not perform. 2 shots at VCU and lost both. Illinois State loss also hurt. It seemed like we never put it all together.


We must have turned down an NIVC invite.


https://www.womensnivc.com/tournament-field.html

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Old 11-27-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
We had our chances this year but did not perform. 2 shots at VCU and lost both. Illinois State loss also hurt. It seemed like we never put it all together.


We must have turned down an NIVC invite.


https://www.womensnivc.com/tournament-field.html
I had heard we were going to turn it down but you never know if thing change, so wanted to wait until it was finalized. I see everyone in the Pac, Big10, Big East and maybe more also turned it down. It could change in the future, but based on this year it looks like this tournament might become a post season tournament for conferences that traditionally only have one bid into the NCAAs. Yes I see there is an ACC and SEC team, etc this year, but I wonder how long those teams will continue to accept an invite in the future.

Nothing wrong with a post season tourney to allow more student athletes at these programs to compete in this type of event. I think it's a good thing for them. But I'm also glad UD declined the invite and I was very proud Dayton was so close in consideration to make the NCAA tournament field even after such an injury-ridden season. A lot of respect for our program and the excellent schedule our staff and administration but together. We have got to continue to schedule as tough as we can and not fear failing into one of the first 4 teams to miss the cut. Do not get conservative or play it safe. The future of the program depends on pushing the program to new heights thru playing elite and tough programs.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:48 PM
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I disagree with not going to this tournament. I think it gives valuable post season experience for the younger players. It gives an opportunity to the seniors to get that one last bit of playing time in college. It gives more exposure nationally to our program. There may be players out there that never know about Dayton until they see them play in a tournament like this one. There are some pretty good teams in this tournament that have some pretty good records. If we are truly one of the top 4 out, then why not play and win this one?

I get the whole if it isn't the NCAA's it just isn't good enough argument, but disagree with that elitist way of thinking. If we had a bad year, we had a bad year. If we had injuries, we had injuries, but to deny our student athletes a shot at playing for a championship is not just right in my opinion.

I love watching Dayton sports and I have come from Columbus to watch the Women play both Volleyball and Hoops and just about every game the Flyer Football team plays. I am proud and happy to see them win and ache and feel crabby when they lose. Any post season opportunity needs to be taken advantage of (again this is just my opinion).

Go Flyers!
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:50 PM
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Cardsflyer -you listed all the reasons to play in any post season tourney. No argument from me on these positives. They exist and you laid them out nicely.

I don't know who at UD makes the decision. I was ok with it.

ESPN listed the last 4 teams to make the NCAAs and the first 4 who missed the cut. I don't know if they were in order, but Dayton was #3 on the list. That's the source for that info.
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:08 AM
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The listed teams in the alternative tournament is replete with lackluster names. We are above that. Not one team from a power conference, other a10, BE, etc. " You are known by the company you keep", SIUE, Bryant, Alabama A&M, MD eastern shore, Please!
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
The listed teams in the alternative tournament is replete with lackluster names. We are above that. Not one team from a power conference, other a10, BE, etc. " You are known by the company you keep", SIUE, Bryant, Alabama A&M, MD eastern shore, Please!
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Georgia (SEC), Ole Miss(SEC), Syracuse(ACC), TCU(Big 12), Texas Tech(Big 12), WVU(Big 12) - These participants seem to discredit your statement about power conference participation.


Still, not knowing the participation requirements (i.e. money, hosting demands), not sure I would have accepted an invite.
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:08 AM
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Another "negative" is if you are one of the top teams in this tournament, you end up playing 4 matches in 9 days. If you host you're probably ok. But if you host nothing, you travel to two locations in those 9 days. That's a lot. You do have 6 days before the championship match.

It all starts today and it will be interesting to see it play out and how much it's supported.
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:27 AM
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THE Figgie RPI Challenge

I'm officially re-naming this tournament THE Figgie RPI Challenge. The following round 1 and 2 results are " mostly" based on figgie rpi as of Nov 28th.

At North Texas
47 No TX beats 107 Oral Roberts
80 TCU beats 87 Wyoming
80 TCU upsets 47 No TX

At Green Bay
104 Green Bay is upset by 123 Bowling Green
88 Illinois State beats 110 IUPUI
88 Illinois State beats 123 Bowling Green

At Pacific
98 Pacific upsets 89 Boise State
79 UCIrvine "upsets" 78 Sacramento State
79 UC Irvine beats 98 Pacific

At Texas State
69 TX State beats 73 Rice
77 SMU beats 118 TX Tech
77 SMU upsets 69 TX State

At Georgia
57 Georgia beats 312 Alabama A&M (duh)
86 Central Florida beats 128 UNC Greensboro
57 Georgia beats 86 Central FL

At Ole Miss
82 Ole Miss beats 101 Stephen F Austin
90 SIUE beats 96 Arkansas St
90 SIUE upsets 82 Ole Miss

At WVA
72 WVA beats 230 UMES
76 Temple beats 157 Campbell
72 WVA beats 76 Temple

At Colgate
67 Towson beats 108 Colgate
99 Syracuse beats 160 Albany
67 Towson beats 99 Syracuse
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:12 AM
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Is it possible that the team members were polled and did not want to go? Unlike some football schools, UD Volleyball has student athletes who care about their academics and personal life.
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Old 11-28-2017, 02:41 PM
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Out on the NIVC website there is a press release dated Nov 2nd listing teams they had contacted about auto qualifiers and potential invites plus inquiries about hosting. For the A10 they only listed VCU and Dayton. I was surprised SLU wasn't listed considering if UD had won the conference tourney, VCU would have gotten an at-large bid.

Based on this, UD would have had almost 4 weeks to make a decision if they had any interest.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:49 AM
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After day 1, I got all five matches correct. Where s that million dollar perfect bracket contest when you need it? I Was surprised every match was a 3-0 sweep. The matches at Pacific were close rpi matchups, and yet they were 3-0 sweeps. And technically the "worse" rpi teams won - although, again the rpis were close. I would have thought those matches would have been very close but they were not. And I would have thought the one match at GA could have gone 4 sets.

For the two matches at WVA, the 3-0 sweeps weren't a surprise. Much bigger gaps in rpi.

Will be interesting to see how all the first round matches go. There should be closer matches for example, G Bay vs Bowling Green, TCU vs WYO, TX St vs Rice and SIUE vs Arkansas St.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:01 PM
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Well we are now 24-1 in sets won by the winners and losers. Sadly 96 Arkansas St upset 90 SUIE 3-1 and I now no longer have a perfect bracket. My only defense is that at 3-1, it's been the closest match yet. Lol.

The tournament powers that be set this up based on a schools finish in their conferences. I think that's highly flawed, but we will see. And I bet they change some of their selection criteria next year. I don't know if they can use the NCAA's rpi. It might not be allowed??? I think figgie should reach out to them if these set scores don't improve. Sell his rpi to them for use. $2000 and take the wife and kids on a long weekend somewhere every year. We will see how the tournament plays out.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:28 AM
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I missed 3 match results from yesterday. These were 2nd round matches that got played before all the first round matches have been played at other locations. So I'm going to keep a second round set score taller too. (Weird).

Anyway, 2 matches were 3-0 sweeps. The 3rd was a 3-2 match with UCIrving beating host Pacific. So the second round set score taller is 9-2 and of the 11 matches in bothround completed, 9 have been 3-0 sweeps, one a 4 set match and one a 5 set match.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:12 AM
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All 16 first round matches are now complete and four second round matches for a total of 20. 14 of those matches have been 3-0 sweeps. 2 of the 4 second matches and 12 in the 16 first round.

The second round has one 3-1 match and one 3-2 matches so far. The first round had two of each of those scores. 4 more second round matches to be played yet.

So far the big conferences are winning. (Surprise, surprise.) iI'll have to dig into the details, but on the surface, it looks like a team that finished 5th or 6th in a big conference is a way better team than a program that finished 2nd or 3rd in a mid-major conference. No surprise here. It has to play out, but this tournament so far is a great case study for how well the NCAAs selection process works. Is it perfect? No. But it's pretty good at getting the best team in plus the auto Qualfiers from the mid-major conferences to keep them " happy" and literally "bought in" to the NCAAs and paying their membership dues.
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