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  #501  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:07 AM
Viperstick Viperstick is offline
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....according to the Philly papers. Temple and VU may wind up playing BE FB.
It is my sincere hope that this decision bankrupts both institutions.

Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Yeah, UConn didn't sell their tickets, but why should the Fiesta Bowl care?? UConn had to buy them, so it wasn't as if they lost any money.
Yes, but the bigger problem was that no one watched on TV either. That translates into lost ad revenue for the bowls and makes it exceedingly difficult to justify a horrendously inflated conference TV contract going forward. Just think what will happen when ECU is playing USF in the conference championship a couple of years down the road:

ESPN: "Hey Anheuiser Busch, how'd you like to pay $250K for a 30 second ad for the ECU-USF game?"
Anheuiser Busch: "Yeah, um, it's basketball season now and, um, the ACC game of the week re-run will out draw that. Besides, that sounds like a bad rack in Scrabble <click>"

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
As for the military academies joining the Big East, this seems to be folly to me, especially for Air Force which is 2/3 of the way across the country. And answer me this: My tax dollars support the armed services and their academies, correct? Then, if Army, Navy and Air Force all join the Big East and things fail to work out, am I, the taxpayer, the one that gets stuck paying the (now) 5 Million dollar exit fee for each of the academies when they leave the Big East? In fact, am I now the one who will pay the exit fee for Air Force to leave the perfectly sensible Mountain West Conference so it can bask in the fading glow of the quickly declining Big East?
I would bet that somewhere in all of this there's a politician or politicians pushing buttons to maneuver the service academies in this direction. You're absolutely right, this makes no sense, but I've seen insane waste of your money for blatantly political reasons.
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  #502  
Old 10-12-2011, 06:16 AM
Fudd Fudd is offline
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Originally Posted by FSUFlyer View Post
I'm pretty sure they only receive basketball money.
But they also get television contract money, which is where the football schools typically have more leverage.
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  #503  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:07 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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Unbelievable, but,...

...in May the Big East turned down a $1.4 billion, nine year deal from ESPN....thinking it would get a better deal from Fox or NBC.

Had the ESPN offer been accepted it's highly likely that Pitt and Syracuse would still be BE schools. The Big East could be a Harvard Business School case study on mis-management.
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  #504  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:49 AM
Bat'71 Bat'71 is offline
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Notwithstanding all the positive things being bandied about by the BE commissioner about how all the existing members have been supportive in trying to stabilize the BE and add new members, I think it's pretty obvious the likes of UConn, RU, UofL, Cincy and WVa would jump in a heart beat to join either the SEC, Big Ten or the Big XII. Regarding the longevity of the BE (with it's core members in tact), the proof of the pudding, will be if all those schools approve a big jump in the "exit fee" from the current $5 Mil to something on the order of $10-$15 Mil. As far as the Big XII being satisfied with ten members, that posture will last only until they decide not to stay at that number, which could be tomorrow. The whole BCS landscape is somewhat akin to Mt. St. Helen's...it may appear to be dormant, but there are rumblings underfoot and the whole thing could "blow" at a moments notice.

UAC, no offense, but, I think your faith in the BE (or the ACC or Big Ten for that matter) resting it's decision on who to add, or not add, to their conference based on that particular institution's academic standing is (at this point) misplaced and a little naive. Having witnessed the integrity, or rather the lack thereof, among the various ADs and college Presidents in this whole shameless scramble for a seat at more "prestigious" (read that as "profitable") conference, I believe "academic" standing is one of the last things they're interested in, but it is a useful little fig leaf they can grasp to maintain some vestige of "purity". When long-time rivalries can be blown up at the drop of a hat and geographic-fit goes out the window for a chance to garner bigger bucks in TV contracts, do you really think these guys sit around the table and discuss academics? If academics really mattered to these folks, you wouldn't have them offering scholarships to kids that are barely literate or have difficulty maintaining a 2.0; you also wouldn't need the NCAA to impose penalties on schools that don't graduate their kids withing five or six years. The hypocrisy of the importance of "academics", at even the most prestigious of some of these BCS schools, is so thick you can cut it with a knife. It is this hypocrisy that led Jim Harbaugh to rip his Alma Mater (Michigan) about the fact that they don't care about their athletes once eligibility is gone. In the overall scheme of things, IMO, money talks, BS walks (as does "academics".)
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  #505  
Old 10-12-2011, 08:45 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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I agree completely, or....

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Notwithstanding all the positive things being bandied about by the BE commissioner about how all the existing members have been supportive in trying to stabilize the BE and add new members, I think it's pretty obvious the likes of UConn, RU, UofL, Cincy and WVa would jump in a heart beat to join either the SEC, Big Ten or the Big XII. Regarding the longevity of the BE (with it's core members in tact), the proof of the pudding, will be if all those schools approve a big jump in the "exit fee" from the current $5 Mil to something on the order of $10-$15 Mil. As far as the Big XII being satisfied with ten members, that posture will last only until they decide not to stay at that number, which could be tomorrow. The whole BCS landscape is somewhat akin to Mt. St. Helen's...it may appear to be dormant, but there are rumblings underfoot and the whole thing could "blow" at a moments notice.

UAC, no offense, but, I think your faith in the BE (or the ACC or Big Ten for that matter) resting it's decision on who to add, or not add, to their conference based on that particular institution's academic standing is (at this point) misplaced and a little naive. Having witnessed the integrity, or rather the lack thereof, among the various ADs and college Presidents in this whole shameless scramble for a seat at more "prestigious" (read that as "profitable") conference, I believe "academic" standing is one of the last things they're interested in, but it is a useful little fig leaf they can grasp to maintain some vestige of "purity". When long-time rivalries can be blown up at the drop of a hat and geographic-fit goes out the window for a chance to garner bigger bucks in TV contracts, do you really think these guys sit around the table and discuss academics? If academics really mattered to these folks, you wouldn't have them offering scholarships to kids that are barely literate or have difficulty maintaining a 2.0; you also wouldn't need the NCAA to impose penalties on schools that don't graduate their kids withing five or six years. The hypocrisy of the importance of "academics", at even the most prestigious of some of these BCS schools, is so thick you can cut it with a knife. It is this hypocrisy that led Jim Harbaugh to rip his Alma Mater (Michigan) about the fact that they don't care about their athletes once eligibility is gone. In the overall scheme of things, IMO, money talks, BS walks (as does "academics".)

....."almost completely". Of course, the current Big East members are supportive trying to stabilize the conference...and, of course, the ones you mentioned would jump to a better conference in a second. There is no hypocrisy there.

Dayton is 100% supportive of the A10...but that doesn't mean that UD would pass up an opportunity to join a conference comprised of the Big East Catholics. There is no contradiction there. I just finished reading Tim Wabler's annual report, "Sustaining Excellence". The very last page has a discussion titled "Positioning" in which Tim talks about conference realignment. The narrative makes it crystal clear that UD is making itself "ready" for whatever happens......but it does support a strong A10.

I do believe that conferences like the ACC, Big Ten and PAC 12 will not admit a school without academic/research creds. The SEC cares little about such things and the Big East is desperate. West Virginia has an outstanding athletics program worthy of any power conference. Indeed, WVU is, arguably, the most attractive "available" school on the market based on sports. But, have you ever heard WVU's name mentioned as a possible addition to either the ACC or Big Ten. Money is the driver...but academics and research prowess are major criteria for three of the power conferences.

At the moment the Big East is so desperate that it may take any decent FB school in order to stabilize itself at 10 or 12. But, I will still be surprised if ECU is added;....if it is, the BE is even more desperate than is apparent. We'll see.

Meanwhile, BC's AD has provided a major boost to a possible UConn entry into the ACC some time in the future by way of his statements to the effect that ESPN is directing conference realignment...which he has retracted in a humiliating letter of apology to all ACC presidents and ADs....apparently required in order to save his job.
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  #506  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:18 AM
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Regarding the ESPN - UConn line and the backpeddling, could the quickest, perhaps easiest, and most beneficial long therm back peddle out of this situation be to add UConn as a full member, while convincing ND to be a member in everything other than football.

go to a 4x4 pod system in olympic sports, go to a 3x5 setup in football, match up the 2 highest ranked BCS teams at the end of the season in your conference championship game, and deal another death blow to the Big East and help ensure your long term stability.

It gives you the inside track on ND if/when they ever join a football conference. Its another blow to the Big East's basketball presence. It maintains your conference championship game. ND losses the close conference games vs Marquette & Depaul, but overall its clearly a better conference for basketball, its 2nd most visable sport for the future. It also keeps any potential UConn lawsuit, and ill will w/n the state they operate from boiling over.
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  #507  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Bat'71 Bat'71 is offline
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It appears that the AD of Boston College made the ultimate faux pas in this situation, which (in Washington-speak) is inadvertently telling the truth. I do feel a somewhat guilty sense of schadenfreude when holier-than-thou folk like this "step in it" and accidentally spill the beans.
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  #508  
Old 10-12-2011, 10:00 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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You are right, Bat,...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
It appears that the AD of Boston College made the ultimate faux pas in this situation, which (in Washington-speak) is inadvertently telling the truth. I do feel a somewhat guilty sense of schadenfreude when holier-than-thou folk like this "step in it" and accidentally spill the beans.
....CT media have observed that it's hard to believe that an AD of an ACC school, who is a member of the ACC expansion committee, could make such a mistake about so important a matter, i.e., ESPN influence on "who gets invited and who doesn't".

DiFilippo's remarks have caused both the ACC and ESPN acute embarrassment...for sure have negated any input BC or Difilippo may provide re UConn in the future,...and as CT media have pointed out, may have all but guaranteed UConn a position in the ACC when/if the ACC next expands.

What a hoot!


(...and does ESPN have some splainin' to do to the CT governor and CT taxpayers who have been bankrolling ESPN expansion 15 minutes from the CT capital.)
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  #509  
Old 10-12-2011, 11:04 AM
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UCF invite

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ap-ucf-bigeast
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  #510  
Old 10-12-2011, 12:40 PM
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Presented without comment.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...o_explore.html
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  #511  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Presented without comment.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...o_explore.html
I thought this was interesting:

"Boise’s addition for football-only, meanwhile, would create only a minimal travel inconvenience for the school if it can be aligned with a western bloc.

With an eight-game league schedule there would only be four road conference games, meaning Boise could get away with traveling East to play once a year."

And I have no idea why the Big East isn't aggressively pursuing BYU in addition to Boise. Maybe the Big East is pursuing BYU but is doing so quietly, or maybe the Big 12 is pursuing BYU, or maybe BYU is holding out for an invitation to join the Big 12, or maybe BYU just isn't a good institutional fit for either the Big East or Big 12.

Last edited by ud2; 10-12-2011 at 02:19 PM..
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  #512  
Old 10-12-2011, 03:02 PM
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Two Leagues, One Umbrella

"The Big East’s long-term goal is to create two separate leagues under one umbrella, with the 12 football schools having a separate commissioner from the eight basketball schools. The sides would offer a united front during all future TV negotiations."

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011...wo-leagues-one
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  #513  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...in May the Big East turned down a $1.4 billion, nine year deal from ESPN....thinking it would get a better deal from Fox or NBC.
But they would've gotten more than that on the open market in another year or two. Nobody saw the ACC making the move they did. Without that, it's very possible the Big East would've survived just long enough to see a new contract come along that made their revenue much more competitive with the rest of the BCS conferences.
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  #514  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Regarding the ESPN - UConn line and the backpeddling, could the quickest, perhaps easiest, and most beneficial long therm back peddle out of this situation be to add UConn as a full member, while convincing ND to be a member in everything other than football.

go to a 4x4 pod system in olympic sports, go to a 3x5 setup in football, match up the 2 highest ranked BCS teams at the end of the season in your conference championship game, and deal another death blow to the Big East and help ensure your long term stability.

It gives you the inside track on ND if/when they ever join a football conference. Its another blow to the Big East's basketball presence. It maintains your conference championship game. ND losses the close conference games vs Marquette & Depaul, but overall its clearly a better conference for basketball, its 2nd most visable sport for the future. It also keeps any potential UConn lawsuit, and ill will w/n the state they operate from boiling over.
Why would the ACC have to add UConn? Who gives two craps what BC's AD said? UConn's not going to win any lawsuit because there's nothing that can be done. What, that BC isn't being nice and is blocking UConn's entrace to the ACC? That's not a legal matter. Or that ESPN tampered? Yea, right. Good luck proving that outside of one idiot's retracted quote.

If the ACC could get ND as a partial member RIGHT now (which I'm not saying they could, but I think they might be able to) why wouldn't they just hold out and see if future circumstances force ND to join as a full member. You can ALWAYS wait on a school like UConn. They aren't going anywhere. If ND were to join the ACC today, what future catalyst could there possibly be that'd make them want to join as a full member? All their non-revenue sports would be secure. And just kicking ND out a decade from now for refusing to add football would seem like a stupid thing to do.

You can't have 3 divisions in football. It's not allowed by the NCAA. And I don't see how you can split any conference up into divisions and then NOT allow a division winner the opportunity to play for the conference title.
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  #515  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:17 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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Missing the point....

Originally Posted by FSUFlyer View Post
Why would the ACC have to add UConn? Who gives two craps what BC's AD said? UConn's not going to win any lawsuit because there's nothing that can be done. What, that BC isn't being nice and is blocking UConn's entrace to the ACC? That's not a legal matter. Or that ESPN tampered? Yea, right. Good luck proving that outside of one idiot's retracted quote.

If the ACC could get ND as a partial member RIGHT now (which I'm not saying they could, but I think they might be able to) why wouldn't they just hold out and see if future circumstances force ND to join as a full member. You can ALWAYS wait on a school like UConn. They aren't going anywhere. If ND were to join the ACC today, what future catalyst could there possibly be that'd make them want to join as a full member? All their non-revenue sports would be secure. And just kicking ND out a decade from now for refusing to add football would seem like a stupid thing to do.

You can't have 3 divisions in football. It's not allowed by the NCAA. And I don't see how you can split any conference up into divisions and then NOT allow a division winner the opportunity to play for the conference title.
"Who gives a crap what the BC AD said"? FSU, when was the last time you heard an AD say something that immediately required a retraction along with a letter of apology to all the presidents and ADs of his conference?

What BC's AD said was so significant as to practically guarantee UConn an invitation to join the ACC when it expands to 16. The one thing that you said that is correct is that the ACC is in no hurry, UConn isn't going anywhere.

BC's AD said that, "ESPN told us (the ACC) what to do". When the ACC presidents heard that they no doubt went ballistic. And when the ESPN execs heard it they no doubt fainted. Why? Because conferences are supposedly run by their school's presidents...not by the networks. "ESPN told us what to do". Good grief!

And what is it that ESPN "told" the ACC to do? Add Pitt instead of UConn....after the state of CT and its taxpayers pumped millions in tax incentives into the ESPN headquarters campus a few miles from the CT state capital....after that ESPN knifes the state's flagship university in the back by directing the ACC to add Pitt instead of UConn.

And you're saying "who gives a crap what the BC AD said"? Everyone involved gives a crap, that's "who".

Now CT's governor is nobody's fool...and he's had quite a bit to say about this matter. One of the things he said very recently is this: "The ACC is in no hurry to expand....might be a few years....they are waiting on Notre Dame as its 15th school...and when that happens UConn will the 16th".

What BC's Gene Difilippo said all but guarantees that...which the CT governor knows. Difilippo hates UConn....and, unwittingly, he did UConn an enormous favor.
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  #516  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:31 PM
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I don't think the ACC will add UConn because of what Difilippo said. However, I do think they could add them as their 16th school, because by that time there won't be much else available.
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  #517  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
"The Big East’s long-term goal is to create two separate leagues under one umbrella, with the 12 football schools having a separate commissioner from the eight basketball schools. The sides would offer a united front during all future TV negotiations."

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011...wo-leagues-one
wow. That is amazing. Talk about herding cats. It would seem that arrangement would have the shelf life of a gerbil. I guess the whole deal will follow the money path.
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  #518  
Old 10-12-2011, 05:38 PM
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Available right now....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't think the ACC will add UConn because of what Difilippo said. However, I do think they could add them as their 16th school, because by that time there won't be much else available.

....please name schools that are "available" right now, or that are likely to become available, that meet ACC criteria for excellence in sports across the board, academics, research, geography and TV market impact.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....please name schools that are "available" right now, or that are likely to become available, that meet ACC criteria for excellence in sports across the board, academics, research, geography and TV market impact.
You just made my point. There isn't much available now. There will be even less available in three or four years (just a guess on the time frame). If the ACC gets lucky and gets Notre Dame, there won't be much left at all for them to get to 16. They will take UConn because they will be all that is left that meets their criteria, not because of what Difilippo said.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:56 PM
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We may be in the process of trying to manage...

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
You just made my point. There isn't much available now. There will be even less available in three or four years (just a guess on the time frame). If the ACC gets lucky and gets Notre Dame, there won't be much left at all for them to get to 16. They will take UConn because they will be all that is left that meets their criteria, not because of what Difilippo said.

...agreement. The way I am reading your "point", you seem to be making it sound as if only scaps are left even now...and as time passes the situation will be even worse.

The way I'm reading it is that conferences like the ACC (and Big Ten) have such high standards that very few schools meet their stringent qualifications...and in the future there will be even fewer. The tone sounds a bit different to me.

Without giving it a great deal of thought...it seems to me that right now the "available" schools that meet ACC criteria are Rutgers, Notre Dame, Missouri and UConn.....with Mizzou not being a great geographic fit.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:32 PM
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Presented without comment.

http://www.boston.com/sports/college...asts_fate.html
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:31 PM
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http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2...e-speculation/

Thamel said that A-10 members Charlotte, Richmond and George Washington were contacted informally to gauge interest in joining the Colonial Athletic Association. He also wrote that the A-10 “expressed informal interest” in adding CAA schools George Mason and Virginia Commonwealth.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:42 PM
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Charlotte (will soon have) and Richmond does have FCS football, so the CAA overture was not unexpected. GW is an academic gem, so again, no real surprise.

George Mason and VaCom is a little puzzling. Don't they both have football in the CAA? Why would the A10 woo them?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:47 PM
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Presented without comment. Once again, if this is stale news, a thousand pardons.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...lks_cloud.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2299...al-florida.htm

http://www.thenovablog.com/2011/10/1...raise-exit-fee

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...date_bois.html

http://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/...UH-2212347.php

Last edited by bobber; 10-13-2011 at 12:37 AM..
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Presented without comment.

http://www.boston.com/sports/college...asts_fate.html
Forgive the off topic, but that dude's English teacher should be ashamed of herself. Pretty poor job of proofreading.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:13 AM
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Bobber, in two of the posts you kindly listed, it was mentioned that the FB schools in the BE rejected the notion of increasing the "exit fee" to $10 Mil from the current $5 Mil and extending the duration of their respective commitments. This speaks louder than any "verbal" platitudes the FB members espouse to work together to firm up the conference. How can any school (e.g. Boise State or Houston) commit to join a league when the existing core membership won't commit long-term? The structure of the BE conference with the FB schools joined at the hip with the BB schools, even though they have different agendas, leads to a dysfunctional organization. A bifurcated league such as this can't last long IMHO and it will only be a matter of time until it implodes; kinda reminds me of the Euro-zone.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:23 AM
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I may be stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the longer this uncertainty with the FB side of the BE Conference lingers, the more it takes on the aroma of tainted goods. This can't be good for the "Brand", such as it is, and this alone could hasten the demise of the Conference or cause a break between the FB participants and the non-FB schools.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Charlotte (will soon have) and Richmond does have FCS football, so the CAA overture was not unexpected. GW is an academic gem, so again, no real surprise.

George Mason and VaCom is a little puzzling. Don't they both have football in the CAA? Why would the A10 woo them?
gmu/vcu do not play football. richmond/uri do. eventually charlotte will. i would not be surprised if these teams were "traded". it is logical.

my ultimate question is always: will the a10 take this opportunity to drop some of its dead weight?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:55 AM
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between this, and some links on the A-10 board, it appears the the basketball side of things has no interest in tying itself to UCF, ECU, Navy, Boise, etc.. long term, unless WVU, Louisville, & UConn commit themselves long term. One link on the A-10 board talks about a 15 year commitment, obviously Louisville, WVU & UConn are not going to garuntee that.

The last thing the basketball side wants is to commit itself to UCF, Houston & ECU, then watch Louisvill & WVU pull out, the remaining football teams place their football programs elsewhere, but remain in the Big East for all other sports. I wonder how much they had to be pushed into allowed TCU in as a member. TCU provided no direct improvement for the basketball partners, split the revenue 1 more way, and created imense travel headaches. Seems they're being more cautious this time around and not setting themselves up to lose all power moving forward.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:34 AM
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Independence as an option?

It seems to me that for some of the remaining BE FB schools that "may" have real, attractive options in the future....Rutgers, UC, WVU, UL,....announcing withdrawal from the BE may make more sense than the present scenario.

Suppose UConn or Rutgers had solid intelligence that they would be invited to join the ACC (or Big Ten) in 2-3 years...just suppose,....announcing withdrawal would still have them playing FB in the BE for 2 seasons past this one.

Independence isn't an option, I suppose,...or is it for FB only?....but, for sure, what those schools are going through now is awful.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
gmu/vcu do not play football. richmond/uri do. eventually charlotte will. i would not be surprised if these teams were "traded". it is logical.

my ultimate question is always: will the a10 take this opportunity to drop some of its dead weight?
I'm starting a collection to begin the Fordham & LaSalle football programs.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:58 PM
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Posted without comment.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...george-o-leary
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Posted without comment.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...george-o-leary
Love the last line of the article -

"Does it make financial sense for UCF to pay millions of dollars to get into a league that everybody else is paying millions of dollars to get out of?"
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:15 PM
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Big East BCS AQ status....

Certainly, it seems nuts for a school to join the Big East, especially considering that some of its current FB members want out. Nonetheless, it appears as if the BE's BCS status is relatively secure for quite a while...longer than discussion on this board suggests.

The Boston Globe has an article in which a "college official", apparently uninvolved, but thoroughly familiar with the details of the BCS contract, says that all the Big East has to do is field a 8 team conference to ensure AQ status through 2016. Right now the BCS has six schools, assuming UP and SU are gone, which they are not (yet).

So, with UP and SY in the league for two years after this one...and AQ status seemingly solid for five years, I suppose it's possible for a reconfigured BE to retain AQ status. A long shot? Probably. But, the BE is going to be a BCS conference for a while IF it can find replacements for SU and UP...and there is time to do that.

Joining still seems like a goofy idea, though.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:54 PM
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In one of the stories bobber linked (which are much appreciated), the statement (paraphrasing) "the basketball schools are refusing to add anybody" appeared. This makes a lot of sense from their standpoint.

I'm quite sure the non-football schools would prefer to keep UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, and Cincinnati, all of which have been top 5 teams in basketball, and most of those recently, but they see the writing on the wall, and the football money is just simply too large for those schools not to get into real football conferences.

Now, one option is to desperately add anyone with FBS football (academies, Idaho! schools, former members that were kicked out for sucking so much, Utah! schools, up-and-comers, Texas! schools). You do that to desperately cling to BCS status for the Rutgers, Cincinnatis, and WVUs of the league, and you will end up with a pathetic basketball league when UConn, WVU, Cincinnati, Rutgers, and Louisville all finally get a decent invite.

The other option for non-football members is to force the football members out. You do that by flat refusing to admit ECU and UCF and anyone else with a football team. The BE no longer retains its BCS status if it can't fill the spots. Sayonara...Uconn, Rutgers, WVU, Louisville (Cincinnati prays the Big 12 will invite them and USF goes crawling back to CUSA).

The basketball members:

1) keep the iconic Big East name
2) keep the MSG tournament prestige
3) keep the ESPN contract
4) collect the exit fees
5) keep the NCAA tournament payouts that UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville have earned but won't be around to split
6) milk the Syracuse/Pitt connection for two more years by forcing them to wait the whole 27 months
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....please name schools that are "available" right now, or that are likely to become available, that meet ACC criteria for excellence in sports across the board, academics, research, geography and TV market impact.
Not UConn.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't think the ACC will add UConn because of what Difilippo said. However, I do think they could add them as their 16th school, because by that time there won't be much else available.
No way in heII the ACC is going to add UConn just because some stupid AD ran his mouth. UConn may very well end up in the ACC one day but it's not going to be from those comments.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:51 PM
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Posted without comment.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2308...ssouri-sec.htm
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:25 AM
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Bobber, the article cited above kinda lost me when it mentioned X, Butler and St. Joe's as likely additions to a new BE BB conference....St. Joe's? 'Nova, in all likelihood, isn't going to let in another Philly school, and a small, Catholic one at that. UD, St. Louis and Richmond all have better shots of going into a reformulated league than St. Joe's would (and personally, I worry more about the Bilikins taking our "rightful" spot more than anyone else, since they presumably have had a good relationship with Marquette and DePaul in the past and the St. Louis market is arguably more attractive than Dayton.) I still think we're more attractive than Butler, despite the Bull Dogs recent success in BB due to several factors (we have better overall facilities and are more competitive in our other sports...plus, we should have X on our side, although a Jesuit cabal could conspire against us and favor St. Louis.)
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:49 AM
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UAC, you may have hit on a reasonable alternative to a total implosion of the BE. If the FB schools could formally break away from the BE structure for FB (remaining in the league for everything but FB...along the lines of ND's current participation), then the FB schools may be able to add schools like Temple, ECU, Boise State and BYU without the need to consult or get the approval of the BB schools. Since Temple and BYU already have their FB programs separate and apart from their other sports (Temple in our A-10 and BYU in the WCC) this could work. Now, there may be a problem with the BE FB schools retaining their BCS status if they formally break their programs out of the BE structure, so that could be an impediment, or there could be a problem with "exit fees"...but that should be easily remedied if the FB schools hang together and stay in the BE for all other sports. However, this seems to be too easy a fix to me, otherwise it probably already would have been done...unless I'm really missing something (which I've been known to do. )
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:47 AM
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Bat,

I wouldn't worry too much about whom the international business times points to as potential Big East basketball additions. College basketball obviously isn't the reason people get that publication, kind of like the Wall Street Journal, sports presents a side bar to the harder hitting business stuff earlier in the week. St Joes was a #1 seed recently and a name a casual fan might recognize, along w/ Butler and X. I would say in any scenerio where Villinova is a member, St Joe's stands little chance of joining.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:49 AM
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FWIW.....A few weeks ago, while listening to WFAN sports radio out of New York, Mike Francesa mentioned St. Joe's as a possible addition to the BE. He also added Dayton after some thought. Bottom line is no one knows WHAT will happen.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:39 AM
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True, no one knows...

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
FWIW.....A few weeks ago, while listening to WFAN sports radio out of New York, Mike Francesa mentioned St. Joe's as a possible addition to the BE. He also added Dayton after some thought. Bottom line is no one knows WHAT will happen.
Bill.....but it's very hard for me to see Villanova sharing Phila with another Philly school. VU is a bit like Notre Dame...nose very high in the air...it's VU's way or the highway.

Many years ago Penn State wanted to join the Big East in the worst way...VU blocked it. Can you imagine what the Big East might look like today if Penn State had been admitted years ago? Can you envision BC leaving a conference with PSU in it?

The entire history of FB in the NE is likely to have been profoundly different had PSU joined the Big East.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:52 AM
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Some additional news/speculation from the NY Post: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...pLKGN5Cz8tZSlM and http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...aLZIUYEwhFf7yI
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:54 AM
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UAC......I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just stating what Francesa said. Tom Luicci of The Newark Star Ledger reported yesterday that while Temple has been discussed as a team to possibly add to the BE, Villanova is adamantly opposed to adding Temple as anything other than a football playing member only. We all know that Temple was a football playing member only before they were "kicked out" a few years ago. I can't seem to be able to post a link to the story. If anyone is interested they can find the story online.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:11 AM
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Anybody know what the record is for most replies to a thread?
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:58 AM
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And on top of all the answers to this thread we had a pretty active thread on the same topic going all summer long over in "Off Topic" slot. It had 71 replies.

But, no, I don't know what the record is.

Chris?

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Old 10-14-2011, 12:28 PM
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Although the article from ESPN posted below could be classified as "more of the same" it indicates that some on both ends of the Boise State to the Big East story have misgivings about the wisdom of the move.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...eed-persuading
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
although a Jesuit cabal could conspire against us and favor St. Louis.)
Is that the same nefarious one percent cabal the Occupiers are protesting against?
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Although the article from ESPN posted below could be classified as "more of the same" it indicates that some on both ends of the Boise State to the Big East story have misgivings about the wisdom of the move.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...eed-persuading
A couple of thoughts,

1) Boise would be wise not to join the Big East until there is a fairly well locked garuntee none of the football schools would depart over the next decade. One of the article yesterday said a 15 year commitment was talked about, in addition to the raised exit fees, both of which were shot down.

2) How could Louisville, WVU, UC, UConn & Rutgers agree to such a deal if they consider themselves in play for the ACC, SEC, B12 and/or B10 in the next 5-10 seasons, if not sooner.

3) If Missouri departs for the SEC, there is a lot of talk of Louisville & WVU joining the B12 and taking the conference back to 12 teams. True? perhaps, but they would need 1 more team to get to 12; could Boise be that team 12th team? What if Missouri stays, we'll assume WVU goes to the SEC as #14 there. I still belive the B12 will get back to 12, could Boise still be #12 in that scenerio?

4) would USF, ECU, UCF, Temple, etc... plus Boise State be in any better of a position to grab a BCS auto bid over Boise and whatever remains in the mountain west?

Conclusion, the B12 could put a pretty big wrench, if they haven't already in any Big East movement plans w/ 3 phone calls to WVU, Louisville & Boise State. Its in the best interest of the B12 to put the bug in the ear of these schools, and any others under consideration when/if they decide to go to 12 or remain at 10 but need to replace Missouri. Quick action by the Big East combined w/ a large exit fee requirement could cut off potential partners rather quickly. Its much better have as many options on the table as possible over the next couple of seasons.

that doesn't even take into account the feeling that the non-football partners are getting tired of bending over backwords for the football side and want a say in any expansion for the purpose of football to also be a positive for the basketball programs.
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Old 10-14-2011, 02:25 PM
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http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssport...32522/32716356

this update indicates that Boise, ECU & UCF have been agreed upon and will be getting an invite to the big east next week. 2 more in the future at some point. Wonder what kind of TV package it would get, and what happens when others depart for the B12 and/or SEC/ACC
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:20 PM
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Well, if Boise State accepts, it just might save the BE's AQ status. So, for now anyway, the BE seems to be back somewhat on a level keel. Boise is their only......ONLY.....hope. You wonder what they had to promise the Idaho folks to get them to sign on.

But then again, we don't know what WVU, UConn, Rutgers, Louisville and Cincinnati are up to, do we? Will they vote to increase the exit fee? If they do agree to do it, there may be life in this conglomeration of schools after all.

This is like Days of Our Lives, but without the slinky outfits.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:26 PM
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Another update

Mountain West, CUSA to merge:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...usa.merger.ap/


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  #554  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Mountain West, CUSA to merge:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...usa.merger.ap/


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A 22 team league - this is getting C-R-A-Z-Y!!! The A-10 can beat this! Merge with the MVC for a 24 team league or the CAA for a 26 team league!

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  #555  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:51 PM
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Football-only merger...

....other sports unaffected. The combined league plans to apply for BCS membership.

This move may block the Big East's attempt to poach C-USA teams.....that is the hope. Surely, a merged MW and USA is more attractive than the BE train wreck.

The BE must be the most poorly managed conference in history. Pitt and SU will be playing BE FB for two more seasons after this one...so BE FB will retain BCS status for a while...in fact for up to five years from now. So there is time for a slow death.

But at some point one would expect the FB and BB schools to say "enough already",....this isn't working...we've got to part company.

Philly papers report that Villanova will approve Temple as a FB member...but not as an all-sports member.

What an unbelievable mess! Notre Dame could accelerate an end to the realignment saga by choosing a conference once and for all.....then most or all the other pieces would fall into place, I think. But, ND thinks only of ND.
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  #556  
Old 10-14-2011, 11:04 PM
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The merged conference has a much better chance at AQ than does the BE. I bet Boise UCF and AF will think twice before making the jump to the BE.

This is getting out of hand!
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:45 PM
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Cant believe anyone would pay millions to join a football league like the Big East that two teams (Pitt/Syracuse) just vowed to pay millions to leave, with another 3-4 (Ville, WVU, UConn, Rutgers) also showing willingness to pay the same millions if the right offer is tendered.

What on a Gods green earth are these ADs thinking? They are like street hookers in 5 inch heels.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:07 AM
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Talking

What's wrong with street hookers in five inch heels?
Did I miss something?


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Old 10-15-2011, 09:46 AM
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Dallas news services reporting that yesterday SMU received an invitation to join the BE.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:01 AM
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Never made unless...

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Dallas news services reporting that yesterday SMU received an invitation to join the BE.
...a conference is sure that the invite will be accepted.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Dallas news services reporting that yesterday SMU received an invitation to join the BE.
The BE most likely was impressed by the academic credentials the Mustangs would bring to the conference - not to mention their recent history of football excellence and integrity.

That odor wafting in between the Hudson and East rivers is the corpse of the BE.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:14 AM
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Talk of desperation...the odor emanating from the AD offices in the BE and elsewhere is becoming overpowering. What a fiasco...with any semblance of honor in tatters and their hands out groping for cash, how can these Bozos ever maintain to the public that their primary concern is the well-being of the student-athlete? It's a pretty pathetic display of duplicity, double-dealing and pure greed on a massive scale. Against this sorry lot, the Professional Sports Leagues and the agents representing pro athletes are beginning to look down-right respectable (at least they don't really pretend to be anything but what they are.)
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:37 AM
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Potential to be a good conference...

.....(won't be; but could be). A Big East with the six remaining schools,..plus SMU, Houston, Central Fla and Navy could be a solid conference in a short while, I think. Two TX schools, two Fla schools, plus the rest.

But, with many/most of the remaining schools anxious to join one of the stable power conferences, why would schools take the risk of joining the BE? Increasing the exit fee to $10 million means little. The $10 million would be recouped in a very short time by a BE school joining the ACC. Big 12 ( or Big Ten).

The remaining BE FB schools are really in a pickle. They all want to act in their best interests, obviously;....trouble is, it's nearly impossible to understand what makes the most sense to protect one's "best interests".

After the fact, it's clear that the BE FB schools have been greatly hampered by their continued affiliation with the BB-only schools. Had that connection been severed a few years ago, allowing the BE FB schools to expand intelligently, this would not be happening to them now.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:48 AM
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Why in the world would a combined Conference USA/Mountain West think they can gain BCS status? They are no better together than they are separately. This could help keep schools from leaving (but I doubt it), but I don't see BCS status anywhere in the future. Maybe the MAC should merge with the WAC and apply for BCS status. At least they could have a cool name - the MACWAC.

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Old 10-15-2011, 11:09 AM
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Might make more sense than is apparent....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Why in the world would a combined Conference USA/Mountain West think they can gain BCS status? They are no better together than they are separately. This could help keep schools from leaving (but I doubt it), but I don't see BCS status anywhere in the future. Maybe the MAC should merge with the WAC and apply for BCS status. At least they could have a cool name - the MACWAC.
There is a school of thought that when the current BCS contract expires after the 2013 season, what follows will be nothing like the current six-power conference arrangement with the bowls.

That is what the AD's of the MWC and C-USA think will be the case, judging from their remarks. There is a line of reasoning that says within the next two years the realignment will be complete..and will result in a landscape so completely different from what we know today that the entire "BCS" arrangement will be replaced by something new that recognizes the effect of the realignment.

That makes as much sense as the insanity that seems to be driving things today. So, given the uncertainty, the MWC/USA group feels they are less likely to be "damaged" by poaching if they circle teh wagons and stick together.

We'll soon see, since the BE appears to be going after schools in one or both of those conferences.

I just want it to be over!

(But, there is still always the possibility that it will involve us if/when the BE BB schools go their separate way.)
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:49 AM
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Maybe the whole BCS concept should be scrapped. Apparently the BCS concept was born out of an attempt to try and provide a consensus National Champion in D-1 football (which still hasn't occurred to anyone's satisfaction) without going to a play-off system that exists at other levels of play. Prior to the BCS designation, the major Bowls all had Conference affiliations that took precedence over matching the two top rated teams in the country in head-to-head match-ups. One of the biggest problems was the Rose Bowl which was committed to both the Big Ten and the Pac 8, since the other major Bowls at the time (Cotton, Sugar, Orange) all had the flexibility of offering an at-large invitation to the likes of a ND, Syracuse or Penn State (which were unaffiliated at the time.) These Bowl Committees (now with the Fiesta having supplanted the Cotton as a major Bowl) still wield too much money and power among the major FB programs and they remain a major stumbling block in actually having a play-off system in D-1 football. If a play-off system were ever able to gain traction (based on AP and ESPN rankings) then the allure for a Conference to achieve BCS stature would be (IMO) diminished.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:12 PM
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The BCS was formed to keep as much money as possible in the coffers of the big schools and as little as possible elsewhere. When they re-negotiate, they will do so with that objective in mind. Nothing else matters, including the students that enable this in the first place.
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  #568  
Old 10-15-2011, 02:48 PM
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One coach that just got a get-out-of-jail-free card is SMU basketball coach Brad Doherty.
He has produce nothing of note and his lack of recruiting success is at the bottom of it all.
Now he has one more chance to use the BE draw to put some talent on the court--or it's curtains.
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Maybe the MAC should merge with the WAC and apply for BCS status. At least they could have a cool name - the MACWAC.
With corporate sponsor AFLAC.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:04 PM
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AP Source: Big East leaders slated to vote Monday
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:32 PM
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You can't make this stuff up....!

The Philly papers and other media have been reporting on the deliberations.....often separate deliberations,....of the Big East FB and BB schools. Some have described the matter as fodder for a business school case study on bungled management.

The FB schools wanted Temple as full member...Villanova, a Temple neighbor, blocked that. Then the FB schools settled on TU as FB-only member; VU still balked; but apparently, with reluctance, sort of approved that. But, as of now TU is not on the list of schools to be invited.

The BE FB schools have their own, private teleconferences...as do the BB schools. The two groups then make proposals to one another,....back and forth, without ever reaching agreement. And the BB schools out-number the FB schools when it comes to voting.

Will will these dummies, especially the FB schools, recognize that the core problem is the fundamentally different interests of the BB and FB schools? The voting majority of the BB schools has, for years and especially recently, been causing great harm to the interests of the much larger FB schools....with ever-arrogant Notre Dame having the potential to serve a constructive role; but, as always, doing just the opposite.

Nope....you can't make this stuff up!
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  #572  
Old 10-16-2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Why in the world would a combined Conference USA/Mountain West think they can gain BCS status? They are no better together than they are separately. This could help keep schools from leaving (but I doubt it), but I don't see BCS status anywhere in the future. Maybe the MAC should merge with the WAC and apply for BCS status. At least they could have a cool name - the MACWAC.
I'm confused by your logic. Let's assume for the sake of argument that this deal is already in place and operating for the current football season. Let's also assume that Boise State and Houston both go undefeated. That would mean a possible title game with two top-10 undefeated teams. A game that would do wonder's for both school's SOS.

Could you imagine Boise adding a top-10 (potentially top-5 by season's end) team to its current schedule? Invaluable.
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I'm confused by your logic. Let's assume for the sake of argument that this deal is already in place and operating for the current football season. Let's also assume that Boise State and Houston both go undefeated. That would mean a possible title game with two top-10 undefeated teams. A game that would do wonder's for both school's SOS.

Could you imagine Boise adding a top-10 (potentially top-5 by season's end) team to its current schedule? Invaluable.
I'm confused by your post. Are you talking about a conference title game or a national title game? And what does that have to do with my post? I was talking about why would this conference think they could become a BCS automatic qualifier. Neither conference is an auto qualifier now, so why would they think they could become one simply by merging.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:31 PM
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BCS after 2013

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I'm confused by your post. Are you talking about a conference title game or a national title game? And what does that have to do with my post? I was talking about why would this conference think they could become a BCS automatic qualifier. Neither conference is an auto qualifier now, so why would they think they could become one simply by merging.

I believe that they think the BCS/AQ system as we now know it will be significantly different after the current contract ends in 2013...and that by merging they "might" persuade some schools from jumping to the Big East.

But, the fact that C-USA/MW schools appear willing to jump to the highly unstable Big East suggests that they feel the system will be essentially unchanged. Moreover, they must think that the BE will retain AQ status. Why else would a school want to join the Big East?

Clearly, no one has a clue?
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
why would they think they could become one simply by merging.
Because whoever comes out of the theoretical game I described year in and year out is just as good or better than whatever the current Big East produces. Some years as good or better than what the other bcs conferences produce. Basically it is a way to add a big game to the schedule of the BCS buster of that year...like bracketbusters.

Thus, the "conference champion" deserves BCS "status" and should automatically get an invite.

I don't think any of this matters nor should it, as I am hopeful the BCS will be scrapped entirely once realignment is finished.

Last edited by hawkoooo; 10-17-2011 at 12:11 AM..
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:38 AM
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IMO the BCS set-up permits the big, historically aligned conferences (SEC, Big Ten, Pac Ten, Big XII...successor to the Southwest Conference) the ability to fend off pressure for a true Championship playoff system and therefore they will try to maintain at least some semblance of the BCS into the future. As it stands now, these major Conferences have it pretty sweet, with the ability to jam their own stadiums with up to 100,000 rabid fans for seven home games (12 total) plus a league Championship game (with attractive television rights); add on millions from major Bowl appearances every year and that's just too big a deal to pass up for these guys. The Bowl Committees themselves (along with the local Chambers of Commerce) have a long-term, profitable relationship with those conferences and they too would like to keep something like the status quo. As far as the BE and ACC football conferences are concerned, they're "permitted a seat at the table" to provide an appearance of "openness" to the process and to allow the system to be "National" in scope, but the real money appears to be generated in the South, upper-Midwest, Southwest and West; as far as college sports is concerned, the East Coast is more BB oriented than FB oriented (with the possible exceptions of W.Va and western Pa.) The problem for the East Coast schools is that FB is where the real money is and they want a piece of that action. The problem confronting the CUSA/MTW conferences is that the schools involved don't command the following that the big state universities have in the areas where they and the BCS conferences overlap (e.g. Memphis/U.T. or UAB/'Bama) or they are from relatively less populated states that don't rise to major-market status. I may be getting too old, too crusty and too cynical to think any major changes will be afoot where the amount of money that is Big-Time college FB is concerned. Without major political pressure forcing a D-1 college play-off system, I think we'll be stuck with something like the BCS structure for years to come. Perhaps the ACC feels that it's best bet in maintaining it's long-term viability is to absorb the BE schools that fit into it's footprint, while the Big XII, SEC or Big Ten can gobble up the others. It's more money in the pot for the surviving conferences; over time, the bottom feeders in the remaining BCS conferences can be fed scraps (get a lesser share than the Big Dogs) and they'll be happy to get it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:46 AM
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If the Big East was stable....

....which it is not, with UConn, Rutgers, WVA, UL and UC itching to jump to a power conference....the proposed BE with the names six new schools would be a greatly improved FB conference. Right now three of the teams are in the Top 25 and three are in the top 20 BCS rankings.

The geography is weird,....but two Fla schools and two TX schools, all in large TV markets,....plus two service academies.....the BE could do a lot worse. Nonetheless, it's hard so see why schools want so badly to jump on the train wreck. Apparently, many feel a $10 million exit fee will be stabilizing. For some schools it might be....$10 million is not a small amount.

On another matter, in a few earlier posts SMU was ridiculed on all fronts, including academics. I knew nothing of SMU, so I did a little digging: Academically SMU is very good, top-tier, well above some Bog Ten schools. Athletcially, we all know the history. But, none of the people involved in the scandals remain...it's a new era.

Schools like SMU, Houston, UCF can be expected to pump additional millions into athletics if they join the BE. But, whatever, it will remain a ship taking on water until the power conferences make up their minds.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
On another matter, in a few earlier posts SMU was ridiculed on all fronts, including academics. I knew nothing of SMU, so I did a little digging: Academically SMU is very good, top-tier, well above some Bog Ten schools. Athletcially, we all know the history. But, none of the people involved in the scandals remain...it's a new era.
Agreed. Knock SMU all you want for the scandals or lack of recent success in its athletic programs or lack of fan support, but it is a very good school academically. At 5-1 with a loss to Texas A&M only, June Jones has football on the right track though. They're knocking on the top 25.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:28 PM
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I caught part of the SMU game this weekend, granted there was about 6 minutes left, and SMU was up pretty big, game well out of doubt, but there were enough empty seats in the stands to fill Nippert any given weekend. Speaking of Nippert, if you caught any of the UC v Louisville game (keeping in mind how close Louisville is to Cincy) at Paul Brown Stadium, you saw as many open seats for kickoff as I did at the end of the SMU blowout.

Bottom line, the Big East would be full of programs with little fan support outside of potentially WVU. The bowl tie-ins would suck as much in the future as they do now. BCS AQ status aside, its a conference that will remain under constant threat to lose a team anytime the realignment winds blow. Over on the Missouri Rivals board, they are saying that Missouri will formally ask the B12 what the withdrawl cost will be, then in turn make a commitment to the SEC by the end of the month.

If the Big East plans to stick to its guns and hold Syracuse & Pitt in the conference for another 2 seasons, I would think it would be wise for the basketball side of the conference to hold back until the things are settled further. Perhaps add a team or two as a football only member, but why potentially tie yourself to SMU, Houston, ECU and/or UCF in all sports going forward.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:36 PM
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It seems that the emerging MWC/CUSA would be a football talent "push" with the ultimately revised BE.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Because whoever comes out of the theoretical game I described year in and year out is just as good or better than whatever the current Big East produces. Some years as good or better than what the other bcs conferences produce. Basically it is a way to add a big game to the schedule of the BCS buster of that year...like bracketbusters.

Thus, the "conference champion" deserves BCS "status" and should automatically get an invite.
But for the last several seasons teams from the Mountain West and/or the WAC (TCU, Utah, Boise, BYU) have been better than the Big East champion. Being better than the Big East champion (or even the ACC champion) won't be anything new. Had the teams I mentioned stayed together in the Mountain West I agree the Mountain West should have gained automatic qualifier status. But there will be only one of those teams left - if Boise doesn't leave.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I caught part of the SMU game this weekend, granted there was about 6 minutes left, and SMU was up pretty big, game well out of doubt, but there were enough empty seats in the stands to fill Nippert any given weekend. Speaking of Nippert, if you caught any of the UC v Louisville game (keeping in mind how close Louisville is to Cincy) at Paul Brown Stadium, you saw as many open seats for kickoff as I did at the end of the SMU blowout.
I was at the SMU game actually. I left with several others at halftime to go back to our tailgating site, and seeing as it was a blowout, I never made it back in. But it was never very full at all even in the first half. Part of the problem at SMU is that tailgate scene is so good. It's too bad they can't sell booze in the stadium. That would help some.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:33 PM
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Re the Big East, Groucho says....

....some Priders are old enough to remember Groucho Marx. He had a line that some will recall that reminds me of the Big East's effort to nab new teams...."I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member".

I wonder how many BE "targets" are thinking along those lines.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:46 PM
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In college football circles, it's starting to get to the point for the BE that people are beginning to wonder, "Who haven't they asked?" (with the exception of Temple of course...the poor s.o.b.s.)
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:43 PM
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cbs reporting Mizzou to the SEC is imminent.

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs....fb_na_txt_0001
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:23 PM
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Perhaps the hardest to figure....

....in my mind is UM's decision to leave the Big 12. The Big 12 has three teams in the top 25; five in the top 30......is quite stable, actually.....is well position to pick and choose strong replacements, e.g., TCU,...and will have solid TV revenues.

But that's not good enough for Missou. A&M's decision was based on a "thing" it has about UT. But, UM? Why? The chances for success in a revitalized Big 12 are far better than being in the SEC.

If this happens soon....one would expect the Big 12 to act quickly to replace UM and maybe add even more. Who? Louisville, Cincy, WVU.... each would jump at the chance and would make solid additions to the Big 12.

If something like this happens, that would leave only three "original" members of what was the BE FB conference just a few weeks ago. The BE FB schools....large state universities,... have only themselves to blame for their predicament.....allowing themselves to be dictated to for years by a bunch of relatively small private BB schools.

BE basketball has turned out to be very costly for a few major public universities.

(A very short time ago it appeared as if the Big 12 was doomed and that Big 12 leftovers would be absorbed by an expanding Big East. Is it possible that the reverse might occur, i.e., the Big 12 might absorb as many as four Big East left overs by expanding east? Geographically it makes more sense for the Big 12 to focus on UL and Cincy,...maybe WVU....but is either Rutgers or UConn a possibility? Would the Big 12 want an east coast presence? Nah!)
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
I was at the SMU game actually. I left with several others at halftime to go back to our tailgating site, and seeing as it was a blowout, I never made it back in. But it was never very full at all even in the first half. Part of the problem at SMU is that tailgate scene is so good. It's too bad they can't sell booze in the stadium. That would help some.
Having nursed a niece and a nephew through SMU in the '80's, it is quite an irony that there is no booze sales in Ford Stadium ! I will say that full stadium or not, it is one great atmosphere to have a winning team in a stadium on campus.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:13 PM
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If Mizzou goes to SEC, the SEC is done. The Big10 is done unless it involves ND.

The B12 will be down to nine schools again. Do they replace Mizzou one for one or go for the gusto and add three to get to a 12-team championship game format? With the dollars involved, you have to think 12 teams is more likely. Louisville is probably their first choice based on geography, but second choice to WVU based on football.

If they invite all three, as has been said, the Big East is left with UConn, Rutgers, and South Florida.

I see no way the Big East can add 7 schools to get to 10 or 9 schools to get to 12 and hold on to their BCS bid when its renewed in 2013. This is because everything up to now has been BCS leagues poaching other BCS leagues. Its been reshuffling deck chairs.

The Big East is in a different situation entirely. They can only poach non BCS leagues like CUSA, MWC, and WAC. Thats not going to do it with TV contracts and BCS bid guarantees. With lousy pickins' to add to the league, UConn and Rutgers will probably ask for a mercy invitation to the ACC to get that league to 16.

Now the Big12 is done, the ACC done, the Big10 done, and the SEC done. South Florida is a school without a conference. Pac10 is also done and geographically no option anyway. South Florida goes to CUSA?

Even if Mizzou leaves B12 and B12 wants to only replace them with one school to return to 10 teams, they will likely grab a Big East school. Even if just two of UL, UC, WVU remain in the Big East, I dont think that league survives. Not enough big name brands. If one of three leaves, the other two will likely want out as well.

Right now the teams biting nails are UConn, Rutgers, and South Florida. Only the ACC can save the latter two and they are under no obligation to. South Florida's options are all bad.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:39 PM
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Crazy predictions:

Next to SEC: FSU and WVU.

Next to Big XII: Louisville for 10.

ND, Uconn, Rutgers to ACC. 16 for all sports, 15 (3x5) for football, with ND staying independent for now.

Big East down to nine members, only two of which (Cincinnati and USF) play FBS football. USF back to CUSA makes sense. Does Cincinnati stay in the Big East for all sports (playing football in the MAC or CUSA), garner a Big XII invite (along with Louisville and perhaps Boise State bringing them back to 12), or go back to CUSA for all sports?

Dayton needs to make a real splash this year. The Big East seven will be adding 2-5 new teams soon and I don't like the future of the A10 right now.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:41 PM
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At the moment it seems as if the schools in a bind...

...are the ones receiving Big East invitations. With the various scenarios that Chris outlined most of the BE FB schools will be gone or will have a very high probability of leaving soon....within a year or so.

How can the targeted schools possibly ditch their current conferences for such an exceptionally uncertain future?

The only one left may well be the new schools added....that is totally nuts.

As for the "mercy" invitations the ACC may offer to UConn and Rutgers...it seems to me that for that to happen those schools need some real friends working on their behalf within the ACC. Pitt and Syracuse may be strong advocates of UC, RU membership. There may be other friends. And we know there is one strong foe....BC.

The state of CT may play the ESPN card...recall that ESPN's home is CT within spitting distance of the capital.....and there is a strong bond between CT and ESPN.

Another factor that UConn has going for it is one of the strongest men's and women's basketball programs in the country. BB means something to the ACC.

Whatever, the situation is more than a little degrading for the public universities of the Big East....for which they can thank the Catholics of the BE as well as their own stupidity.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

How can the targeted schools possibly ditch their current conferences for such an exceptionally uncertain future?

...


for which they can thank the Catholics of the BE as well as their own stupidity.
It's fairly apparent that the "targeted schools" were targeted by the football schools in an attempt to save their own skins. That doesn't mean they were officially invited. The Catholics, seeing the writing on the wall (that the football would eventually collapse), and not wanting to get stuck with a bunch of mediocre basketball, would seemingly want to hold up those invitations, and rightfully so.

As far as stupidity goes, I agree. The football schools were stupid not to create a separate football only conference some time ago. That way, they could invite everyone from Hawaii to Maine at their pleasure, for football only, with zero interference from the Catholics, raise the exit fee to ten trillion dollars, and retain their precious BCS affiliation and stay in the awesome Big East for hoops. They should have.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:00 AM
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Posted without comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sp...r=2&ref=sports
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Posted without comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sp...r=2&ref=sports
Handgrenade, meet Big East...Big East, meet handgrenade.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Posted without comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sp...r=2&ref=sports
If true, i would like to thank missouri for taking this step so all the other pieces may (hopefully) fall and we can all just move on.
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  #595  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....in my mind is UM's decision to leave the Big 12. The Big 12 has three teams in the top 25; five in the top 30......is quite stable, actually.....is well position to pick and choose strong replacements, e.g., TCU,...and will have solid TV revenues.

But that's not good enough for Missou. A&M's decision was based on a "thing" it has about UT. But, UM? Why? The chances for success in a revitalized Big 12 are far better than being in the SEC.

If this happens soon....one would expect the Big 12 to act quickly to replace UM and maybe add even more. Who? Louisville, Cincy, WVU.... each would jump at the chance and would make solid additions to the Big 12.

If something like this happens, that would leave only three "original" members of what was the BE FB conference just a few weeks ago. The BE FB schools....large state universities,... have only themselves to blame for their predicament.....allowing themselves to be dictated to for years by a bunch of relatively small private BB schools.

BE basketball has turned out to be very costly for a few major public universities.

(A very short time ago it appeared as if the Big 12 was doomed and that Big 12 leftovers would be absorbed by an expanding Big East. Is it possible that the reverse might occur, i.e., the Big 12 might absorb as many as four Big East left overs by expanding east? Geographically it makes more sense for the Big 12 to focus on UL and Cincy,...maybe WVU....but is either Rutgers or UConn a possibility? Would the Big 12 want an east coast presence? Nah!)
Missouri's decision to leave for the SEC is pretty easy. There are 3 conferences that are beyond solid, no rumors of any substance about losing teams or having to strengthen themselves in the foreseeable future. The SEC, B10 & P12 are all on above solid ground in athletics. The strength of the B12 is pretty much tied to Texas & OU, and both have been rumored to be leaving for the P12, B10, SEC and/or ACC in the last year+. The B12 will be easier to win, however the B12 in 10 years may no longer be a conference that moves the needle. Its far better to be ahead of the curve and secure your future, than to be left behind in a conference that could struggle to keep up with the jonses.

Its the same reason why no matter what happens, Louisville & WVU would leave for the B12 over the Big East if given the chance. With the strength of Texas & OU, both seemingly committed for the next 5-6 years at a minimum the conference will be both a strong player in the next round of BCS contract and provide a more stable collection of schools should expansion hit again. I read earlier this week that BYU was more receptive to a B12 invite now that things have settled and TCU has been added. I've also read where OU & OSU are in favor of 12 teams, while Texas is the only school named as oppossed. I think it would be smart for schools like Baylor, ISU, Kansas, KState, Texas Tech & TCU that could be left holding the bag if OU & Texas leaves to move to 12 now and get to a more stable number to build from in the future if needed. BYU, Louisville, & WVU offer a solid collection of national names in football, new, unique markets, strong fan support and great potential for the long run.

It would appear that the BBall schools flexed some power last night, the buy-out increased, however its contigent on Boise St, Air Force & navy accepting the invite. Just last week, all 3 schools were questionable if they'd join under the current situation, though that could have been public postering. All 3 would be football only invites, so they're not tying themselves long term to any of these programs in the sports that the non football schools participate in w/n the Big East umbrella. In other words, unless football is definently settled, they're not going to allow Houston, UCF, ECU, SMU or any other full membership school to join.

The best thing, for all parties, would be for the B12 to decide where it wants to go, 10 or 12. If its 12, get there now, and add 1 more when Missouri to the SEC becomes official. Its really what all these schools are waiting on, no one can make a firm decision, nowing a different choice is going to be presented sometime in the next 6 months.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:06 AM
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Big 12 "consideration" for a peer conference...

It is no secret what the BE is going through...and its current plans for offering invitations to six schools have been widely reported. It is also well known that UM is planning to leave the Big 12..and that the Big 12 will then add one and possibly three schools to get back to 10 or 12.

Further, it is a near certainty that Big 12 targets will be Big East schools, one-to-three. Only the Big 12 knows for sure; but it does know what its plans are.

Those plans will have a huge effect on the Big East and on the six schools that will have to decide whether or not to accept Big East invitations. The Big 12 is well aware of that. Thus, it is all but essential for both the Big East and its six potential new schools to have an indication of Big 12 plans.

Do you suppose that this has become such a dog-eat-dog process that the Big 12 will refuse to provide a bit of off-the-record "guidance" re its plans to the BE and/or to the six potential BE schools?....or to current BE members that are likely to be Big 12 targets, e.g., Louisville, WVU?

Dragging this unseemly process out is not good for college athletics generally and it's absolutely awful for schools that are directly affected. This is one helluva mess....and the sooner it's over with, the better.

If, of the original eight BE FB schools only three remain, that's not a conference any more. Better to learn that in the near term than to entice additional schools to join a conference thought to be an AQ conference that soon will be missing 60-65% of its members and along with that its AQ status.

Absolutely, positively,...you couldn't make this up!

(And if the BE does crumble completely,..which would be merciful....our beloved alma mater may yet enter the mix. Is that good or bad? I haven't a clue.)
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  #597  
Old 10-18-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
If true, i would like to thank missouri for taking this step so all the other pieces may (hopefully) fall and we can all just move on.
It seems that the target will always be a moving train as long as the cache of cash keeps flowing among tv networks. Things that still could cause disruption would be new money and new players from television, the possibility of One Super Conference, the continued emergence of non-football sports, greed, egos, the demand for a National football playoff,
more greed, remuneration for football players in college, ad nauseum.

The moving train will bias toward the money path. Unfortunate. Sick.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:57 AM
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the thing about the BE is that WVU, UConn, Rutgers, UC and UofL have to be out looking for a landing spot. The BE as a football league is dead they just haven't admitted it yet.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:01 AM
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The Big12 has to sit and wait but for Missouri to decide but after that they can cherry pick the best 3 teams out there to join them. One would think at least 2 of teams are would be from the Big East which would be the stake through the heart.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:02 AM
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If conference realignment moves toward a crescendo this Fall, will UConn and RU (along with USF)be left without a chair at the BCS table when the music stops? Cinci may be able to ride UofL's coattails into the Big XII, due to their long-standing relationship and a logistical fit with WVa. If UConn places it's hopes for an ACC invite based on it's relationship with ESPN , I think they're just a tad misguided...wasn't ESPN one of the motivating forces cited for BC's recent veto of the Huskies admittance to the ACC (not that BC probably needed any additional motivation, given their past history)? As far as the Nutmeg State "playing" the ESPN card, given the state of the economy, ESPN (and it's payroll) may be more important to Connecticut than Connecticut is to ESPN. RU may have a better shot at ACC acceptance than UConn since it's FB program at least brings into play both the Philly, NJ and NYC markets, while UConn adds what exactly...the Connecticut market? We need to remember it is FB that is driving this bus, not men's and women's BB.

As far as hoops is concerned, will the BE brand be diminished by the defections of the FB schools? I'm sure the ACC feels that it's latest moves have significantly enhanced it's BB standing at the expense of the BE. If Cinci, Louisville and WVa depart to the Big XII, will that hurt Marquette and DePaul in BB? Taking it a step further, if the BE is left with UConn, Providence, SHU, St. Johns, 'Nova, G'town, S. Fla, MU, DePaul and (perhaps) ND will they really be that much better than the existing A-10? Maybe, but they will have lost a lot of their swagger and the A-10 (as presently constituted) could compete for recruits very effectively against them. As in so many endeavors, if you don't constantly improve your brand, you'll eventually lose...so "standing still" is not an option and the BE seems to be going in the wrong direction. Now what happens if the BE adds SMU, Houston and Central Florida as "full" members and then the FB schools depart? Then I think the BE is kinda screwed. Oh well, just a stream-of-conscience going on here, but things really don't look too bright for the BE at the moment and I may be feeling a little schadenfreude here at the expense of our BE brothers. The thing that worries me most though would be if this shake-up leads the BE BB schools to raid the A-10 for X and the Bilikins...that would hurt.
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