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  #401  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Sheesh.......Dayton doesn't even get a mention anymore.
I wouldn't make too much out of that, SLU or VCU didn't get mentioned either.
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  #402  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:10 AM
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I doubt that VCU is really under consideration
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  #403  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:14 AM
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CU vs UD

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Another Andy Katz update this morning on the C7. No new information, everything is still up in the air. Butler and Xavier are still the consensus favorites for inclusion in the new conference. Richmond is still being talked about as a potential addition to the new conference.



There is a definitely a push in one key corner of the seven to add Creighton because of the Bluejays passion for hoops, their facilities and following. I continue to hear conflicting opinions about whether or not distance matters in this new league. What isn't negotiable is the 7 want/need the schools to be all in for basketball. If that's the case then considering Gonzaga isn't out. This league has to be smart about its moves, and if Creighton is in the mix it would be a wise choice.
True, about Creighton. But, is there any aspect of CU's "passion for hoops, fan base, facilities, committment, etc" that exceeds UD's? If there is, I don't see it. Indeed, that's where we excel. And we have a huge geographic advantage over CU.

If our performance on the court had been better over the past decade UD would be a slam dunk. That is our only significant weakness.
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  #404  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
I doubt that VCU is really under consideration
I agree 100%. They may not want the catholic lable, but I would bet they will stick with all private schools when all is said and done with Butler not being catholic.
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  #405  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
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TV and relative proximity to Cincy and Indy are equal or greater problems.
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  #406  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:16 PM
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For the record, over the last five years UD has been to one NCAA and four NIT's (with an NIT Championship). Creighton has been to one NCAA and two NIT's. St Louis has been to one NCAA and no NIT's. Advantage to UD with St Louis bringing up the rear. Over the last ten years UD has been to three NCAA's and four NIT's. Creighton has been to four NCAA's and four NIT's. St Louis has been to one NCAA and two NIT's. Slight edge to Creighton with St Louis way behind. Nobody knows how much this will mean but we are way ahead of St Louis and very close to Creighton in on-the-court performance. And who knows how good Creighton will be when the coach's All-American son is gone.
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  #407  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:23 PM
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I think Doug may have it right...

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
For the record, over the last five years UD has been to one NCAA and four NIT's (with an NIT Championship). Creighton has been to one NCAA and two NIT's. St Louis has been to one NCAA and no NIT's. Advantage to UD with St Louis bringing up the rear. Over the last ten years UD has been to three NCAA's and four NIT's. Creighton has been to four NCAA's and four NIT's. St Louis has been to one NCAA and two NIT's. Slight edge to Creighton with St Louis way behind. Nobody knows how much this will mean but we are way ahead of St Louis and very close to Creighton in on-the-court performance. And who knows how good Creighton will be when the coach's All-American son is gone.
Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
TV and relative proximity to Cincy and Indy are equal or greater problems.
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If X and BU are in.....UD is just too close to those schools if TV market weighs heavily. What is also true is that the close proximity of X, UD and BU makes life much easier for the olympic sports....but that may not matter.

Thus, while SLU and CU look no better than UD, worse, as longtimer points out,....those schools open different TV markets.
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  #408  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:47 PM
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Nothing terribly new in this piece from ESPN. It confirms the new Cbe7 will start in the fall of 2014. One new bit is that the "old" Big East is expected to pick up UMass. Not a surprise, but I have not seen it in print until now.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...14-source-says
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  #409  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Nothing terribly new in this piece from ESPN. It confirms the new Cbe7 will start in the fall of 2014. One new bit is that the "old" Big East is expected to pick up UMass. Not a surprise, but I have not seen it in print until now.
I assumed UMass would go to Conference-USA, but I guess Conference-USA II would be basically the same thing.
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  #410  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Nothing terribly new in this piece from ESPN. It confirms the new Cbe7 will start in the fall of 2014. One new bit is that the "old" Big East is expected to pick up UMass. Not a surprise, but I have not seen it in print until now.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...14-source-says
The "Big East" name is still up in the air.

It seem that every time you read an article indicating one thing, there is another article a little later that indicates the opposite or something else. Just last week, I think it was reported that the C7 were going to lose the Big East name.

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Thus, while SLU and CU look no better than UD, worse, as longtimer points out,....those schools open different TV markets.
Sorry to be a downer, but IMO, Creighton men's basketball is more nationally known and has a much stronger brand than UD. Creighton had a nice period from 2000-2007 where they made the NCAA tournament 6 times. I definitely think Creighton has a leg up on UD as far as national men's hoops reputation is concerned.

Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
I doubt that VCU is really under consideration
Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I agree 100%. They may not want the catholic lable, but I would bet they will stick with all private schools when all is said and done with Butler not being catholic.
Well, if VCU is not under consideration, then why is VCU being mentioned in a lot of these articles? VCU is hot right now and has an attractive brand.




I hate to think worst case scenario, but in the end the A10 could be:

Dayton
Duquesne
Fordham
Geo. Washington
La Salle
Rhode Island
Richmond
St. Joseph's
St. Bonaventure

Gone would be: Temple, Charlotte, UMass, Butler, SLU, VCU, and Xavier

So, you'd have Dayton, GW, Rhode Island, Richmond, and St. Joseph's leading the way. The A10 would hopefully aggressively backfill, otherwise, that looks like a 1-2 bid conference.

Look at adding George Mason, Murray State, Belmont, Siena, Western Kentucky, Akron, Wofford, Oakland, ETSU, etc.

Or maybe try to get into whatever the Big East football conference is going to be called/CUSA for basketball only.

Last edited by ud2; 02-09-2013 at 01:37 AM..
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  #411  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:57 AM
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Dayton is too close to X and Butler to be in the same conference for TV? Someone tell the ACC that Duke and UNC are basically in the same city.
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  #412  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Dayton is too close to X and Butler to be in the same conference for TV? Someone tell the ACC that Duke and UNC are basically in the same city.
Don't forget Wake Forest is right there too. 8 miles down the road for Wake? Also NC State is not far down the road.
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  #413  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:28 AM
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Re ACC...

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Dayton is too close to X and Butler to be in the same conference for TV? Someone tell the ACC that Duke and UNC are basically in the same city.
Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Don't forget Wake Forest is right there too. 8 miles down the road for Wake? Also NC State is not far down the road.
But, those three schools are ACC legacy schools. If a new conference was being formed from scratch I seriously doubt that all three would be included,...for the same reason that X, UD and BU are not likely to be included in a new, clean-sheet-of-paper C7 conference, in my opinion.

Had Dayton "won" more, as Lunardi suggested, things would be different. But, the fact is that the post-OP decade simply didn't progress as planned/hoped for.
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  #414  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Don't forget Wake Forest is right there too. 8 miles down the road for Wake? Also NC State is not far down the road.
Close' but nc state is essentially in the same town, wake forest is like 40 minutes away from Durham-chapel hill-raliegh
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  #415  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
If X and BU are in.....UD is just too close to those schools if TV market weighs heavily. What is also true is that the close proximity of X, UD and BU makes life much easier for the olympic sports....but that may not matter.

Thus, while SLU and CU look no better than UD, worse, as longtimer points out,....those schools open different TV markets.
Which is why I say the underperformance may have very little to do with the decision. A couple Butler final games might, but not just 2 or 3 NCAA.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:24 AM
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There's a whole list of reasons why I don't think VCU is relevant, one being, Id be surprised if Richmond isn't added (10 or 12)
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  #417  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
There's a whole list of reasons why I don't think VCU is relevant, one being, Id be surprised if Richmond isn't added (10 or 12)
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Agree, Title BU. I think the conference really wants to remain private for a number of reasons.
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  #418  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:44 PM
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Richmond seems to be the hot name as of late floating around. If UD is left out, I sure hope either Creighton or St. Louis is, as well, so that we can join up with one of them in a conference. And I'm almost inclined to say that I'd like to see that conference be the MVC since the A-10 seems to have no interest in ditching the dead-weight. If UD is stuck in a conference with a bunch of East Coast schools, many of which are downright terrible and with which the Dayton has no real connection, I'm going to be very disappointed.
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  #419  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Richmond seems to be the hot name as of late floating around. If UD is left out, I sure hope either Creighton or St. Louis is, as well, so that we can join up with one of them in a conference. And I'm almost inclined to say that I'd like to see that conference be the MVC since the A-10 seems to have no interest in ditching the dead-weight. If UD is stuck in a conference with a bunch of East Coast schools, many of which are downright terrible and with which the Dayton has no real connection, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Agree, but the problem is if UD is left out of a 12-team conference St Louis and Creighton probably will both make it. Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St Louis, and Richmond would kill us and the A-10. We deserve it more than St Louis, but they may want their market. We could take Creighton's spot in the MVC (after we see who the A-10 would add) but I believe the University likes to have ties with the East coast. If we are left out of a 10 -team conference it wouldn't be quite as bad.
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  #420  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
There's a whole list of reasons why I don't think VCU is relevant, one being, Id be surprised if Richmond isn't added (10 or 12)
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As I pointed out earlier in this thread, Richmond is a much better fit than VCU. People are just high on VCU lately because of their Final Four run (which was indeed impressive and cool) and recent on-court success. But most other factors weigh in favor of Richmond...
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  #421  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:42 PM
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On another board/thread someone mentioned that if this C7conference was being formed in 2007 instead of 2013 George Mason would be the "hot" team everyone is lobbying have included.
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  #422  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Agree, but the problem is if UD is left out of a 12-team conference St Louis and Creighton probably will both make it. Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St Louis, and Richmond would kill us and the A-10. We deserve it more than St Louis, but they may want their market. We could take Creighton's spot in the MVC (after we see who the A-10 would add) but I believe the University likes to have ties with the East coast. If we are left out of a 10 -team conference it wouldn't be quite as bad.
I have said before the A10 isn't that bad a place to land, but I am having second thoughts. Now it seems UMass is going to get an invite to the football Big East, and who knows if SLU, Richmond or VCU will still be in the A10?

Adding teams like Siena and George Mason is a stop-gap, but it doesn't excite me too much. I wonder if the Flyer Faithful will show up on a cold February night to see the Saints play at the Arena.

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  #423  
Old 02-09-2013, 04:07 PM
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If all the mid-western teams leave (Butler, St Louis, Xavier) it seems the A-10 would have to add one or two mid-western teams to take their place, but not sure who that would be (Detroit, Cleveland State??). I can't see UD in an A-10 with 11 (or 13) eastern teams plus UD.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:20 PM
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Boy, won't that be a great conference....NOT.

Is anyone here old enough to remember the "Great Independents.?" Man, if we are left in a picked-over A10 how far will we have slid from that situation? Let's see, Notre Dame (ACC) Marquette and DePaul (BE/C7), UD....the new A10.

If it happens, all I can think is that we've played our cards wrong for a long, long time.

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  #425  
Old 02-09-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Boy, won't that be a great conference....NOT.
That's why I have said all along if we are left out of a 12-team BE we are screwed. No Temple, Xavier, Butler, St Louis, Charlotte, probably Richmond, or UMass. Yikes! St Joe's and VCU would be left.

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Old 02-09-2013, 04:31 PM
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I think VCU would go back to old conference and probably get St Joe to come along.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hoch21 View Post
I think VCU would go back to old conference and probably get St Joe to come along.
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If that happened we would almost have to go after Creighton's spot in the MVC.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Boy, won't that be a great conference....NOT.
Agreed, it won't be the best conference, but it'll be a perfect fit for us.

We haven't earned the right to be in hte same conversation(s) with _avier and Butler. Should the C7's invite us, it's because of everything BUT our men's basketball program...which is pretty sad considering it's our marquis team.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Agreed, it won't be the best conference, but it'll be a perfect fit for us.

We haven't earned the right to be in the same conversation(s) with _avier and Butler. Should the C7's invite us, it's because of everything BUT our men's basketball program...which is pretty sad considering it's our marquis team.
Agree relative to Xavier and Butler, but we have had much more success than St Louis the past 5/10 years, and about the same as Creighton. So if they (especially St Louis) are selected ahead of us, that will be because of something other than basketball.
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  #430  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Agreed, it won't be the best conference, but it'll be a perfect fit for us.

We haven't earned the right to be in hte same conversation(s) with _avier and Butler. Should the C7's invite us, it's because of everything BUT our men's basketball program...which is pretty sad considering it's our marquis team.
I hate this "earned the right" line of thinking, particularly when there are a number of other schools that will be in the new Big Priest that have done much worse than we have over the past 5, 10, 15, etc. years. The schools that are forming this new conference are our institutional peers and we absolutely belong in that conference, even if our play on the basketball court in recent years has only been a touch better than mediocre.

Although it may be mens basketball that dictates that we get left out, ultimately this thing is going to transcend mens basketball. If we get left out it will be a huge kick in the groin in my opinion and something that the athletic department and the University are going to struggle to recover from in the long-term. We can't be identifying ourselves with schools like VCU, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island, etc.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
I hate this "earned the right" line of thinking, particularly when there are a number of other schools that will be in the new Big Priest that have done much worse than we have over the past 5, 10, 15, etc. years. The schools that are forming this new conference are our institutional peers and we absolutely belong in that conference, even if our play on the basketball court in recent years has only been a touch better than mediocre.

Although it may be mens basketball that dictates that we get left out, ultimately this thing is going to transcend mens basketball. If we get left out it will be a huge kick in the groin in my opinion and something that the athletic department and the University are going to struggle to recover from in the long-term. We can't be identifying ourselves with schools like VCU, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island, etc.
I don't know, if the A10 adds some good schools, the A10 could maybe be a 3 or 4 bid league. So, in terms of UD's chances of making the NCAA tournament, the new A10 might not be a whole lot different than the 14 team A10 that existed before Butler and VCU.

I think UD would have a good chance of going to the NCAA tournament regularly as a member of the new A10, but could UD advance deep into the tournament once they get into the tournament?

Yes, Butler, VCU, George Mason, and UNLV all made the Final 4, but those seasons, excepting UNLV, were the exception not the rule. And UNLV was a pretty crooked program when they were going to Final 4's. BYU, Xavier, Gonzaga, and Temple have never made the Final 4.

I know it sounds ludicrous, but the ultimate goal is to have a shot at the national championship. Does UD have a realistic shot at the national championship being in the new A10? I guess if you look at Butler making the championship game twice, then maybe the answer is yes, UD does have a shot at the national championship being in the new A10. Definitely seems like a national championship would be much more realistic being with the C7 though.

And this might be UD's last chance to get into a conference that would put UD in a position to compete for a national title.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:59 AM
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Kollars of the DDN weighs in with his opinion.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...ers-hav/nWKwt/

More:

http://www.nj.com/college-basketball...port_says.html

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Old 02-10-2013, 08:53 AM
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YES The answer is YES

YES... In The new conference Dayton could go to Final Fours and Win a National Title. Thats How we need to think.. Its how X... Gonzaga...Butler and VCU think.. Look at College BB its a free for all. The new conference will be great and both Top coaches and players will want in!!
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
YES... In The new conference Dayton could go to Final Fours and Win a National Title. Thats How we need to think.. Its how X... Gonzaga...Butler and VCU think.. Look at College BB its a free for all. The new conference will be great and both Top coaches and players will want in!!
It's how you 'think' that gets you to Final Fours!? If that's what you believe then it's no wonder we don't get there! Because the other teams you mentioned above got there by playing, not thinking.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Kollars of the DDN weighs in with his opinion.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...ers-hav/nWKwt/
I wouldn't pay any attention to anything Kollars says. Here is a "sports editor" who didn't even watch the Xavier and St Louis games because they were on "obscure cable channels," and apparently thinks his job is to bash the UD program. This is the best the DDN can come up with? Wow, bring back the days of Si Burick and Ritter Collett.
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  #436  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:55 AM
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I tend to agree with Kollars. 10 and it is unlikely UD is invited. 12 and there is a pretty decent shot. But no certainty.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:36 AM
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UD moving forward

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
I hate this "earned the right" line of thinking, particularly when there are a number of other schools that will be in the new Big Priest that have done much worse than we have over the past 5, 10, 15, etc. years. The schools that are forming this new conference are our institutional peers and we absolutely belong in that conference, even if our play on the basketball court in recent years has only been a touch better than mediocre.

Although it may be mens basketball that dictates that we get left out, ultimately this thing is going to transcend mens basketball. If we get left out it will be a huge kick in the groin in my opinion and something that the athletic department and the University are going to struggle to recover from in the long-term. We can't be identifying ourselves with schools like VCU, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island, etc.
05'--I agree with just about everything you said----BUT----"IF" UD were to be left out of the new conference the University and the athletic department would be "wounded" BUT JUST FINE!!

The University of Dayton is about so much more than hoops & folks like you/me want this so badly that we can almost "taste it" BUT----if for some reason (be it Fox sports, the Jesuit connection, 10-12, etc.) leaves us in the A-10 we'll be just fine!

I have NO Doubt that Tim W, Curren and the entire University community is/has done everything they can do to make this happen-----and honestly I still believe we will be amongst "the 12"---BUT if it doesn't happen initially or in the future---we'll move forward and be fine!

Honestly, I'm amazed at how far this institution has come over the past 25+ years that I've been hanging around and I'm confident we are suffinciently poised for the Univesities progress on the both the academic side and the athletic side to continue and improve!

I understand and agree that the schools forming the conference are our institutional peers and honestly on many levels we are are the TOP of the pack amongst them-----I ultimately believe that that will carry the day!

It's so tough to be patient and wait---but that's the only choice we have! Go Flyers!
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  #438  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:05 AM
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The TV Network will dictate how this plays out. With this being the case, television markets will be a big factor. It’s also about how they reach those markets- regional coverage for instance. All of this talk about tradition, program quality etc is irrelevant. This is about MONEY. I believe our proximity to Xavier and television coverage hurts our chances. They want the league to be in as many markets as possible. I would suggest Butler (Indy) and Xavier (Cinncinnat) are all but signed sealed and deliver. The rest depend on how the Network will show the games. Think regional coverage of affiliates on the network.

There is some merit to going with a initial ten league format, and then waiting on the final two. With there being so much turmoil in conference alignment, the new league may wait to see the best way to add the additional teams in the mix. Ultimately, the TV will want 12 schools, because they want more markets for their program.

Finally, the TV contract is being represented by a Georgetown alum. Let’s face it that school is reeling from the loss of their conference and rivals in Syracuse, Pitt, Lousville, ND, & UCONN. They went from being the premier conference in college BB to something that doesn't reflect the quality they want. They may demand the league wait to see how things play out with the hopes they can add a football school to their new premier basketball league.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
I tend to agree with Kollars. 10 and it is unlikely UD is invited. 12 and there is a pretty decent shot. But no certainty.
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Do you agree the BE-7 will "snap up" St Louis (along with Xavier and Butler) for a 10-team conference? And you don't appear to agree that if it is a 12-team conference we are "in."
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:59 AM
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One basic fact is that the Broadcasters all love doing games at the Arena. I've watched innumerable telecast BB games over the years and have never heard announcers gush about virtually any venue the way they gush about the UD Arena. There is much speculation about "markets" and how they're perceived and analyzed by Network Execs...but most of it is just that...layman's perception. When one speaks about markets, what is most appealing to broadcasters is the ability of televised games to draw more of a national or regional audience and maintain the interest of the viewing public throughout the telecast...not necessarily the potential audience of a MSA. How many TV sets does anyone think tune into a Temple game in Philly....heck, they have trouble filling their own arena for games. What matters is the appeal of a game for a regional/national stage, a winning, competitive program with match ups with similarly situated institutions. What adds to the appeal is the game time atmosphere, the intensity of rivalry games and the competitive nature of the contests. Despite falling short in Post Season play over the past decade, UD has a winning program, we seldom get blown out, and the atmosphere in the Arena is what other programs strive for but seldom attain. This is recognized by Sports promoters, and has resulted in our being invited to some of the more prestigious preseason BB Tournies around...that hadn't always been the case, BTW.

Out of curiosity, do the message boards of any of the other schools being "considered" for the new conference receive the same amount of overwrought naval gazing as UD Pride? Just curious.
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  #441  
Old 02-10-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Do you agree the BE-7 will "snap up" St Louis (along with Xavier and Butler) for a 10-team conference? And you don't appear to agree that if it is a 12-team conference we are "in."
Maybe not SLU, but someone other than UD. I think either SLU or Richmond are most likely. And if it is 12 it is between the SLU/Richmond loser and UD, Creighton. I will add on this I have no inside knowledge or source. Just gut feel.
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  #442  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:28 PM
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sorry if this has already been posted, but did not see it.

Big East and C7 both close to TV Deals. Andy Katz says play could still start in 2013.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...a-rights-deals
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  #443  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
One basic fact is that the Broadcasters all love doing games at the Arena. Despite falling short in Post Season play over the past decade, UD has a winning program, we seldom get blown out, and the atmosphere in the Arena is what other programs strive for but seldom attain. This is recognized by Sports promoters, and has resulted in our being invited to some of the more prestigious preseason BB Tournies around...that hadn't always been the case, BTW.
ESPN loves UD, and has told UD they can play in any ESPN exempt tourney they want. Not sure if Fox feels the same way simply because they haven't been involved with UD. Let's hope they recognize it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Do you agree the BE-7 will "snap up" St Louis (along with Xavier and Butler) for a 10-team conference? And you don't appear to agree that if it is a 12-team conference we are "in."
No, I don't believe that. SLU simply doesn't enjoy enough of a basketball not market advantage over Richmond (and all their money and location), to extend the conference's footprint that far west (and south) at 10 teams
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:57 PM
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http://www.nj.com/college-basketball...port_says.html
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:54 PM
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If television market is the main topic...yes, Dayton is in a smaller market. If one looks at the interest in watching the Flyers on a weekly basis...think of where the alumni base is....The EAST!
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:13 PM
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Nothing much new, just Bonnies Coach Schmidt's opinioin on the C7.

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/sport...0ed32462f.html
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
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http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/...st-rights.html
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:33 PM
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  #450  
Old 02-12-2013, 05:43 PM
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Nothing new here from Andy Katz, departing XU AD Bobinski offers his thoughts on the C7:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...the-big-east-7

1. Outgoing Xavier athletic director Mike Bobinski, who will become the Georgia Tech AD next month and is the current NCAA tournament selection committee chair, made some interesting comments about the Musketeers' future on our ESPNU college basketball podcast Monday. Bobinski said if Xavier receives the expected offer from the departing Big East schools to become one of its new members then it would have to listen. It would be situation where there were like-minded schools with a common purpose. He also said that 2014 would be more realistic for any movement while 2013 could be a bit rushed, although everything is negotiable. He didn't say Xavier would definitely leave, but it sure sounded like the Musketeers have given this a lot of thought and are likely gone if asked, whenever that occurs. Xavier and Butler are expected to be first up on the docket to join Georgetown, Marquette, DePaul, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall and Providence -- with the choice for a 10th or possibly 11th or 12th coming from a pool of Creighton (MVC), Dayton, Richmond, VCU and Saint Louis (all A-10). Of course, that's the wishful thinking of the departing seven schools.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:22 AM
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...rk-tv/1914005/

The latest.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:31 AM
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So now the NBA is involved with the offer.... doesn't anyone ever check their articles
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:54 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
So now the NBA is involved with the offer.... doesn't anyone ever check their articles
They must employ same editors as the DDN!
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:23 PM
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I wonder if FOX is pushing for more than just 12? From their prospective it would certainly make sense to get into as many markets as possible with this flagship conference.

The wisdom of 14 or 16 vs 9/10 or 12 may be up for debate, but what is not debatable is that more than 12 essentially guarantees our Alma Mater a seat at the table.

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  #455  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:57 PM
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For what it's worth. Pure conjecture on the author's part, but he gets it right in the end.

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/2/12/398...ams-for-the-c7
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:19 PM
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Misses by a mile...

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
For what it's worth. Pure conjecture on the author's part, but he gets it right in the end.

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/2/12/398...ams-for-the-c7
The FB schools he mentions are not going to split off their BB programs, or otherwise splt up their athletics divisions....ain't going to happen.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
For what it's worth. Pure conjecture on the author's part, but he gets it right in the end.

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/2/12/398...ams-for-the-c7
That is probably the worst article I have read on the subject. He proposes bringing in football schools???
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  #458  
Old 02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
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And rates Dayton ahead of St. Louis in a 14-team plan, than puts St. Louis in ahead of Dayton in a 10 team plan.

Ummmm..... yeah.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:44 PM
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all that's being offered at this point is pure conjecture. we're not even getting any "i heard from a friend who's neighbor rented a condo from a guy who's wife gets her nails done by a lady who's cousin cleans the house of the neighbor of the hofstra ad who played pick-up basketball with the georgetown ad when they were kids" that ud is going to be in the new conference. it seems that those in the know have agreed that those who indeed know shall be a finite number of people. that is, they've told everyone to stop talking.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:07 PM
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Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
Don't be messing with me Bat - I am not in a good place right now.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
Whoaa!

I hope your brother is right (along with all his contacts).
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
Be careful Bat. I called new arena last week and people called me crazy. I also commented when Bucky spoke at a class saying he didn't like our chances to get in and told how my sources in the Athletic Department were much more optimistic and got PM's blasting me for that as well.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:20 PM
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I don't normally like to mention rumors I hear*, but my brother has been pretty good in the past and his source seems to be pretty well connected. What he added was that if the new league went to 12 schools, they would initially look to add Creighten and VCU, which also took me a bit by surprise. If I hear anything more on this (one way or another), I'll be sure to Post it.

*FWIW, I really haven't been one to gossip and I've been somewhat critical () of all the opinion writers who opine on such matters from time to time or those with rumors "from a friend of a friend who knows somebody who sits next to a girl at games whose Dad works for a guy who said...". However, given that this was my brother who mentioned it and his source was pretty linearly connected, I thought it worth a mention.

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  #465  
Old 02-14-2013, 04:44 PM
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How important is joining with the C7?

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
Bat, it seems to me that UD may view joining with the new C7 BB-centric league as a once in a lifetime opportunity that if missed will hamper UD athletics,....BB that is,...essentially forever.

UD may have concluded that we must be in no matter what. And realistically, UD knows it's far from a sure thing...we are not X or BU.

Suppose that's the case. Absent such motivation, I think a new arena makes no sense. But, if a new, state-of-the-art, thoroughly modern in every way arena is the carrot UD has chosen to dangle in front of the C7 and their TV friends,...then it all comes together for me.

Would promise of such a facility be what it takes to push UD over the top?.....i.e., to ensure that we're included in the C7 league? I haven't a clue. But, that is the only scenario that makes sense to me in the context of investing in a new arena. And, to gain the required local support, UD's case would be based on the positive impact of being in such a high profile conferenane...as well as the negative impact of being left out.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:51 PM
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I'm not convinced that VCU is in the cards for the new league, regardless of how big they expand.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Bat, it seems to me that UD may view joining with the new C7 BB-centric league as a once in a lifetime opportunity that if missed will hamper UD athletics,....BB that is,...essentially forever.

UD may have concluded that we must be in no matter what. And realistically, UD knows it's far from a sure thing...we are not X or BU.

Suppose that's the case. Absent such motivation, I think a new arena makes no sense. But, if a new, state-of-the-art, thoroughly modern in every way arena is the carrot UD has chosen to dangle in front of the C7 and their TV friends,...then it all comes together for me.

Would promise of such a facility be what it takes to push UD over the top?.....i.e., to ensure that we're included in the C7 league? I haven't a clue. But, that is the only scenario that makes sense to me in the context of investing in a new arena. And, to gain the required local support, UD's case would be based on the positive impact of being in such a high profile conferenane...as well as the negative impact of being left out.
As much as I love UD hoops, I'm excited about the potential benefit such a new facility could bring to the city and the entire Miami Valley region.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:54 PM
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As I've posted before I began hearing rumblings months ago of this kind of re-allignment (August...) from very credible UD sources at UD athletics. At that point, discussions and meetings were ongoing (I was told).

Later on, after confirming what I had heard with a number of folks (at UD) in various places, the story broke and began recieving the coverage that we've all followed.

In November, I spoke to someone else at UD who volunteered that " ***me****, don't be suprised if............announcement in the near future."

I've checked a number of times (depending on how paranoid I was feeling) over the past 2 months and on all occasions I've been told that we were on solid footing and that discussions were ongoing.

Naturally, you never know if things could/would fall apart between UD and the C7++++, but honestly, I really believe we are going to be fine. Pretty much everything that I've read always lists us as one of the possible teams and when you throw in all the other "stuff" that's been out there from what look to be "credible" sources, i.e. the Marquette AD who said about 2 weeks ago that they were looking at athletic programs that were "broad based", and then named "womens basketball, womens soccer, womens volleyball, men's soccer", etc. as the kinds od schools that they were looking to add--------I read that as a real boost for my hopes that UD was on solid footing.

Time will tell, and things can always change---BUT I would be very, very suprised given who I've spoken to if we aren't one of the teams that is asked to join when an announcement is ultimately made!
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, Hyde Park, let me be the one who just "heard" from my brother who has a good friend (a booster) that is very close to both UD and "X": the latest scoop (hearsay) coming from this person's relationship at "X" is...(drum beat please)...it's "X", Butler and us initially joining the "C7"; and, from his UD source (another drum roll please) a new 18,000 seat arena is "planned" for the site of the Fairgrounds...it is to be be co-sponsored by UD and the Group that owns Miami Valley; not sure of the end-game for where the Arena currently sits, but supposedly UD has plans to further develop that site for other sports venues/practice fields, etc.
I needed some good news today. If this turns out to be true I'll buy you a beer - no, two! I'm going to start saving money for season tickets in the new arena! Based on my current location in the 200 level I should be able to get pretty good seats - for a price.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:17 PM
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If you were going to build a new arena, I think it would be easier to secure funding and donations when people were excited about a new conference.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
As much as I love UD hoops, I'm excited about the potential benefit such a new facility could bring to the city and the entire Miami Valley region.
Agreed if true, this has pretty big ramifications for the city.

I'm trying to think what the compeition in the area would be for a fresh 18,000 seat venue for concerts and the such.

US barn arena in cincy is pretty old, this could deal a pretty sharp blow to their concert/figure skating/etc... shows.

I assume the NBA arena in Indy, the YUM center in Louisville and nationwide arena and Value city Arena in C-bus would all be comparable, probably several shades bigger.

Am I missing anything else "in the area" that would compete for that? I would assume an 18,000 seat arena would cement UD's future as a regular for the 2nd & 3rd round games in the NCAA and may well cement their place as a 1st round host for the forseeable future (thinking something similar to Omaha in baseball).
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:40 PM
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An issue re a new arena....

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
If you were going to build a new arena, I think it would be easier to secure funding and donations when people were excited about a new conference.
Assuming UD would not embark on such a venture alone...would only be able to swing it with local support,....that will probably mean a multi-purpose facility. That may be OK if the other "purposes" refer to concerts et al. If ice hocky is one of the intended uses it will make us long for the old Arena.

Ice rinks are very much larger than BB courts, meaning that the permanent seating is much further away from the court when the facility is used for BB.

The civic arena I am familiar with is used for hockey. And from experience I'll tell you that there are seats in that facility from which it's barely possible to notice that a BB game is being played. By comparison, the Arena's 400 section would seem like court-side seats.

In the facility I am refering to, from the distant seats it's not always easy to determine if a shot has been made, other than by crowd reaction. The facility holds ~ 16,500, and there are good seats. But at least half the seats are much further away from the court than anyone would like. When you look at the layout, it's because of the space required by the hockey rink.

But, if that's what it takes to get us in the C7+++, then I'm for it. Otherwise, I think it's an unwise investment. More than one such facility has been built in the U.S. turning out to be a money pit.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:01 PM
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All good points. Although the direct linkage from my brother's friend about UD's inclusion in the new conference and the plans for a new arena came from two separate sources (from senior people at "X"and UD, respectively), there would seem to have to be a linkage between the two developments. From what I understand, the new facility would be a multipurpose arena (i.e. capable of hosting ice skating, concerts, tractor pulls, trade shows, the circus, etc., etc., etc.) so it would definitely benefit both UD, the City and the surrounding areas. Obviously nothing is definite until the ink is dry, but things are looking up. I guess the downside would be that we can all expect another major funding campaign .
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:10 PM
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Well, I will add that the group that owns Miami Valley and UD have mutual interests in developing the property surrounding both. I know both are very concerned in the decline in the area around the Fairgrounds. While neither is in danger of the area becoming the Bronx that Fordham deals with, they both think the area does damage their long-term interests.

So I would not be shocked at some form of joint development. An 18,000 seat basketball/multipurpose facility surprises me some. But not totally, especially depending on the remaining life of UD Arena. By the way, that's the seating reqired to host men's regionals.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:38 PM
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Don't forget Dr. Dan,...

Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Well, I will add that the group that owns Miami Valley and UD have mutual interests in developing the property surrounding both. I know both are very concerned in the decline in the area around the Fairgrounds. While neither is in danger of the area becoming the Bronx that Fordham deals with, they both think the area does damage their long-term interests.

So I would not be shocked at some form of joint development. An 18,000 seat basketball/multipurpose facility surprises me some. But not totally, especially depending on the remaining life of UD Arena. By the way, that's the seating reqired to host men's regionals.
In a few other threads I've mentioned that I had confidence in Dan Curran...in his ability to recognize the long term strategic importance of not being by-passed by the C7 development,....and in his proactive, indeed aggressive, approach to making things happen, not waiting for them to happen.

Spearheading a new arena project as a ticket to inclusion of by the C7 group is just the kind of thing I would expect from him.

We have come to take a lot for granted during the Currna decade. But, 15 years ago no one would have dreamed that UD would own essentially all of what was once NCR...buildings and land. UD was landlocked and not a significant factor in the City. Then Curran exploded on the scene. Now we "own" the south side.....one of the world's great companies is about to take up residence on our expanded campus,....we have a research institute in China....and UD is recognized as a major force for good in the City.

With Curran it never stops.

Why would we suppose he's sitting around reading UD Pride to get the latest news on what the C7 might do? Why would be surprised if he announced plans for a grand new joint project for a new facility for use by the Flyers,...at the same time it was announced that we were part of the C7 expansion?

Nothing that guy guy does should surprise us. Guys like Dan Curran are not common...he is a real leader, a strategic thinker, and most important, he's a doer.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:24 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but when Bro. Fitz stepped down didn't the initial search for a new president fail to turn up anyone that really inspired confidence? So we had to go back to the well again, and the second search produced Dr. Curran.

If my recollection is faulty, please set me straight.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:36 PM
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Correct bobber,..

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but when Bro. Fitz stepped down didn't the initial search for a new president fail to turn up anyone that really inspired confidence? So we had to go back to the well again, and the second search produced Dr. Curran.

If my recollection is faulty, please set me straight.
The first go-around was a disaster. Fortunately, it was recognized that the three finalists were not very impressive. That tells you something about how UD was viewed a little more than a decade ago....couldn't attract solid candidates.

Curran had been approached; but expressed no interest.

Time passed as UD went through the unsuccessful process. Then Curran was approached again. The second time he became interested.

Think about the implications. Dan Curran has transformed our university. "Transformative" is an over-used word, in my opinion. But, Dan Curran has, indeed, made UD a different place entirely.

One of these days we'll lose him...hopefully, not soon. But, I'll bet UD has an easier time when it recruits its next president.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but when Bro. Fitz stepped down didn't the initial search for a new president fail to turn up anyone that really inspired confidence? So we had to go back to the well again, and the second search produced Dr. Curran.

If my recollection is faulty, please set me straight.
The first approach was public and Curran said no because he didn't want St. Joe's to think he was looking elsewhere fearing the promotion ceiling would close for him there if he didn't get the UD job.

Then UD went thru and 'Executive' headhunter that contacted him privately allowing him to interview under the radar. Once he was offered the job, he announced his move.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:21 PM
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I am a little lost by this UAC...

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
In a few other threads I've mentioned that I had confidence in Dan Curran...in his ability to recognize the long term strategic importance of not being by-passed by the C7 development,....and in his proactive, indeed aggressive, approach to making things happen, not waiting for them to happen.

Spearheading a new arena project as a ticket to inclusion of by the C7 group is just the kind of thing I would expect from him.

We have come to take a lot for granted during the Currna decade. But, 15 years ago no one would have dreamed that UD would own essentially all of what was once NCR...buildings and land. UD was landlocked and not a significant factor in the City. Then Curran exploded on the scene. Now we "own" the south side.....one of the world's great companies is about to take up residence on our expanded campus,....we have a research institute in China....and UD is recognized as a major force for good in the City.

With Curran it never stops.

Why would we suppose he's sitting around reading UD Pride to get the latest news on what the C7 might do? Why would be surprised if he announced plans for a grand new joint project for a new facility for use by the Flyers,...at the same time it was announced that we were part of the C7 expansion?

Nothing that guy guy does should surprise us. Guys like Dan Curran are not common...he is a real leader, a strategic thinker, and most important, he's a doer.
just last week you were going on and on how this wasn't on the master plan so it couldn't be true even after I said I heard higher ups myself say it when I was there. You also were very adamant about the idea being a bad idea and a waste of money. But now you are praising it? I guess I am a little confused.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
If you were going to build a new arena, I think it would be easier to secure funding and donations when people were excited about a new conference.
I can't wait to see what the new seat license fees will be for the new arena...we're already overpaying. How much more can we be fleeced?
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:39 PM
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About how long would it take to build such an arena? I'm not getting any younger.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:15 PM
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Shouldn't be confused...

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
just last week you were going on and on how this wasn't on the master plan so it couldn't be true even after I said I heard higher ups myself say it when I was there. You also were very adamant about the idea being a bad idea and a waste of money. But now you are praising it? I guess I am a little confused.
A new arena is not in the Master Plan.....but, the Plan is an evolving document. It changes regularly.

And, I am not praising investment in a new arena. What I said was that if committing to invest in a new facility is what Curran must do to get UD into a C7++++ conference, then I'm for it.

No other way am I for a investment in a new BB facility except as a means of joining with the C7+++. And, at that, it's an act of desperation required only because our team performance is not good enough to ensure UD's inclusion.

That's not exactly "praising" the investment. I support it in a qualified manner, i.e., only if it helps us with the C7.

Does that clarify my position?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:18 PM
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Construction/cost....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
About how long would it take to build such an arena? I'm not getting any younger.
My guess is 18-24 months after the site is prepared, which could take 6-12 months.

Cost? Could be $60-$80 million, minimum, in my opinion. Could be much more depending on what's wanted.

Just guesses.

Other than as a means to join with the C7, why in the world would UD want to make such an investment, given the very good facility we now have?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Other than as a means to join with the C7, why in the world would UD want to make such an investment, given the very good facility we now have?
UD Arena is an outdated facility. While I have no idea of the validity of any new arena talks, it really wouldn't shock most that a new arena has been discussed.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:16 AM
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As Doug said, the NCAA minimum to host a regional is 18,000. Sooner or later the 12,900 or whatever the NCAA minimum is for 2nd/3rd round games will eventually be raised and may put UD out of business. So you build for the future in case all you have to go after are NCAA Regionals. You also make it large enough to bid on NCAA Womens Final Fours, Frozen Fours, or whatever.

Plus, it needs to be large enough to attract the Tier-1 recording artists and entertainers. UD Arena doesnt bring anybody decent in because 1) the Arena is too small, b) no theatre in the round seating, and c) no A/C. You build it big enough to put the Nutter Center out of business and have Value City shaking in their boots. You build it big enough to use it 150 days a year. That's where the real money is in these things. Its not hosting UD basketball. Thats 17 dates a year -- peanuts. People buy the suites because they want the suite priorities for U2 and Rhianna.

Could Dayton support an NBA franchise? Cincinnati used to have one. I think the city could. In fact I think it MORE than could. I remember going to the NBA preseason game between the Bulls and someone else at UD Arena. Tickets sold out in like 18 minutes. For these needs, Im not sure $175M builds it. You could spent $40-50M just on the parking conundrum. There is NO space.

Oklahoma City is not exactly a metropolis either. The Dayton Airfoils. Eastern Conference juggernauts.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
As Doug said, the NCAA minimum to host a regional is 18,000. Sooner or later the 12,900 or whatever the NCAA minimum is for 2nd/3rd round games will eventually be raised and may put UD out of business. So you build for the future in case all you have to go after are NCAA Regionals. You also make it large enough to bid on NCAA Womens Final Fours, Frozen Fours, or whatever.

Plus, it needs to be large enough to attract the Tier-1 recording artists and entertainers. UD Arena doesnt bring anybody decent in because 1) the Arena is too small, b) no theatre in the round seating, and c) no A/C. You build it big enough to put the Nutter Center out of business and have Value City shaking in their boots. You build it big enough to use it 150 days a year. That's where the real money is in these things. Its not hosting UD basketball. Thats 17 dates a year -- peanuts. People buy the suites because they want the suite priorities for U2 and Rhianna.

Could Dayton support an NBA franchise? Cincinnati used to have one. I think the city could. In fact I think it MORE than could. I remember going to the NBA preseason game between the Bulls and someone else at UD Arena. Tickets sold out in like 18 minutes. For these needs, Im not sure $175M builds it. You could spent $40-50M just on the parking conundrum. There is NO space.

Oklahoma City is not exactly a metropolis either. The Dayton Airfoils. Eastern Conference juggernauts.
Going back a few years, how about Ft. Wayne? Or Syracuse?

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Old 02-15-2013, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
As Doug said, the NCAA minimum to host a regional is 18,000. Sooner or later the 12,900 or whatever the NCAA minimum is for 2nd/3rd round games will eventually be raised and may put UD out of business. So you build for the future in case all you have to go after are NCAA Regionals. You also make it large enough to bid on NCAA Womens Final Fours, Frozen Fours, or whatever.

Plus, it needs to be large enough to attract the Tier-1 recording artists and entertainers. UD Arena doesnt bring anybody decent in because 1) the Arena is too small, b) no theatre in the round seating, and c) no A/C. You build it big enough to put the Nutter Center out of business and have Value City shaking in their boots. You build it big enough to use it 150 days a year. That's where the real money is in these things. Its not hosting UD basketball. Thats 17 dates a year -- peanuts. People buy the suites because they want the suite priorities for U2 and Rhianna.

Could Dayton support an NBA franchise? Cincinnati used to have one. I think the city could. In fact I think it MORE than could. I remember going to the NBA preseason game between the Bulls and someone else at UD Arena. Tickets sold out in like 18 minutes. For these needs, Im not sure $175M builds it. You could spent $40-50M just on the parking conundrum. There is NO space.

Oklahoma City is not exactly a metropolis either. The Dayton Airfoils. Eastern Conference juggernauts.
Post-1969 UD basketball has a history of only making change when their backs are against the wall, things are headed downhill, and they have run out of other options. Is the loss of the NCAA tournament and the possibility of missing-out on a major conference re-organization on our level big enought to cause panic in UD's braintrust? Maybe.....
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Post-1969 UD basketball has a history of only making change when their backs are against the wall, things are headed downhill, and they have run out of other options. Is the loss of the NCAA tournament and the possibility of missing-out on a major conference re-organization on our level big enought to cause panic in UD's braintrust? Maybe.....
Hopefully - Yes
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Think about the implications. Dan Curran has transformed our university. "Transformative" is an over-used word, in my opinion. But, Dan Curran has, indeed, made UD a different place entirely.
Unfortunately, my only visible and objective measuring stick will be our men's basketball program and what happens with the new conference.

New buildings and increased tuition is window-dressing. Every university is doing it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Post-1969 UD basketball has a history of only making change when their backs are against the wall, things are headed downhill, and they have run out of other options. Is the loss of the NCAA tournament and the possibility of missing-out on a major conference re-organization on our level big enought to cause panic in UD's braintrust? Maybe.....
I think that's true in athletics. It hasn't been so on the academic side since Curran has been here. So this could be the opportunity that focusses the highest level of the administration to focus on what athletics needs as the world changes. And also the opportunity because they feel they've got the academic side on very solid ground.

I still have no clue if a new facility is in the works. And it would surprise me if it were, but not so much if it is in partnership with Miami Valley (and perhaps the city or county) and included plans that would bring in Frozen Fours, Women's Final Four, Men's Regionals, concerts, etc. Right now southwest ohio does not have a venue for concerts - nearly all major acts bypass Cincinnati and Dayton. They play in Louisville, Indianapolis, and sometimes Columbus.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
As Doug said, the NCAA minimum to host a regional is 18,000. Sooner or later the 12,900 or whatever the NCAA minimum is for 2nd/3rd round games will eventually be raised and may put UD out of business. So you build for the future in case all you have to go after are NCAA Regionals. You also make it large enough to bid on NCAA Womens Final Fours, Frozen Fours, or whatever.

Plus, it needs to be large enough to attract the Tier-1 recording artists and entertainers. UD Arena doesnt bring anybody decent in because 1) the Arena is too small, b) no theatre in the round seating, and c) no A/C. You build it big enough to put the Nutter Center out of business and have Value City shaking in their boots. You build it big enough to use it 150 days a year. That's where the real money is in these things. Its not hosting UD basketball. Thats 17 dates a year -- peanuts. People buy the suites because they want the suite priorities for U2 and Rhianna.

Could Dayton support an NBA franchise? Cincinnati used to have one. I think the city could. In fact I think it MORE than could. I remember going to the NBA preseason game between the Bulls and someone else at UD Arena. Tickets sold out in like 18 minutes. For these needs, Im not sure $175M builds it. You could spent $40-50M just on the parking conundrum. There is NO space.

Oklahoma City is not exactly a metropolis either. The Dayton Airfoils. Eastern Conference juggernauts.
You had me up until that third paragraph. Even if Dayton could support an NBA team, which I'm not sure is truly the case, such a franchise would likely cut into UD basketball's attendance and following. Part of the reason why UD hoops is so popular is because there is not much else to do in the Miami Valley in the dead of winter. But other than that, I do think that a state-of-the-art venue to host all of the other events you discussed would be great for the region.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:00 AM
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We should be careful here. The idea that new stadiums boost the surrounding economy is a myth that has been debunked over and over. Can it be an economic boost? Absolutely, but that is the exception not the rule.
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  #493  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
We should be careful here. The idea that new stadiums boost the surrounding economy is a myth that has been debunked over and over. Can it be an economic boost? Absolutely, but that is the exception not the rule.
I don't think they are looking to boost the ecomony with the fair grounds location, more clean up. There are already established restaurants and businesses there. Bringing in the concerts and other events will happen either way as long as the new arena is done correctly. It may not be A list talent off the bat, but it will still attract concerts and events.
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  #494  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:36 AM
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In order to make an investment in a new Arena financially feasible (probably on the order of $200 MM when all is said and done*), it would need to be attractive and accommodating to a wide variety of events and promoters year round. As Chris noted, 17 UD BB games, with a few HS games and the First Four thrown in, just won't cut it from a financial standpoint.

Obviously, I don't have any particular expertise in Urban Planning or in civil engineering, but the location of the Fairgrounds would seem ideal for just such a facility, with easier access than the current UD Arena for fans coming in from the southern and eastern 'burbs. It's proximity to the new and expanded UD Campus would be a major plus for students while the recent improvements to Brown Street and the widening of Stewart Street would seem tailor made to handle increased traffic in the area and bolster the economic impact such a facility would have for businesses and local establishments. So, while stadiums and arenas constructed in blighted urban areas have not had much of an economic impact, this would appear to be an entirely different set of circumstances for this setting and it has the potential to be a major plus.

*The YUM Center in Louisville, which seats about 22,000, cost about $230-240 to build a few years ago.

Last edited by Bat'71; 02-15-2013 at 09:42 AM..
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  #495  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Could Dayton support an NBA franchise? Cincinnati used to have one. I think the city could. In fact I think it MORE than could. I remember going to the NBA preseason game between the Bulls and someone else at UD Arena. Tickets sold out in like 18 minutes. For these needs, Im not sure $175M builds it. You could spent $40-50M just on the parking conundrum. There is NO space.

Oklahoma City is not exactly a metropolis either. The Dayton Airfoils. Eastern Conference juggernauts.
They have discussed this in Cincinnati several times, and it seems that the answer is always that the city could not support a NBA team.

I'm extremely skeptical of Dayton's ability to support a NBA franchise, just my opinion though. Seems like the Reds maybe struggle with attendance in Cincinnati, seems like the Blue Jackets maybe struggle with attendance in Columbus. Even the Bengals have been struggling with attendance lately, but that may have more to do with lack of winning enough I guess. The Bengals have been to the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, and they are still struggling with attendance.

Also, a NBA team I think would be very harmful to attendance for UD basketball.
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  #496  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
In order to make an investment in a new Arena financially feasible (probably on the order of $200 MM when all is said and done*), it would need to be attractive and accommodating to a wide variety of events and promoters year round. As Chris noted, 17 UD BB games, with a few HS games and the First Four thrown in, just won't cut it from a financial standpoint.

Obviously, I don't have any particular expertise in Urban Planning or in civil engineering, but the location of the Fairgrounds would seem ideal for just such a facility, with easier access than the current UD Arena for fans coming in from the southern and eastern 'burbs. It's proximity to the new and expanded UD Campus would be a major plus for students while the recent improvements to Brown Street and the widening of Stewart Street would seem tailor made to handle increased traffic in the area and bolster the economic impact such a facility would have for businesses and local establishments. So, while stadiums and arenas constructed in blighted urban areas have not had much of an economic impact, this would appear to be an entirely different set of circumstances for this setting and it has the potential to be a major plus.

*The YUM Center in Louisville, which seats about 22,000, cost about $230-240 to build a few years ago.
Like I mentioned in the other thread with SLU's arena, it still applies here with the KFC Yum Center. They built things in those arena's that would not be needed in a new arena for UD. We would have no need for a practice court because we just built the Cronin Center. We wouldn't need two large lounges. I also don't believe we would need a full restaurant inside. Something similar to the Flight Deck would be fine, but you don't need a full blown restaurant. This can help cut down on costs so we are not paying $238 million for an arena.
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  #497  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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Parking?

A quick glance on google earth, it appears the fairgrounds site is slightly smaller than the entire paved area of the UD Arena complex. Hopefully if these rumors are even remotely true a large parking garage with multiple easy to navigate entry and exit points is a part of the plan. On site parking with easy access from multiple directions is a must. We do not need another poorly planned Nuthouse type facility in town.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:08 AM
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Also, the Cavs I think struggle with attendance in Cleveland. Seems like the only pro team in Ohio that doesn't struggle with attendance is the Browns and maybe the Cleveland Indians since the Indians seem to have had a resurgence since the early to mid 90's when they went to 2 World Series.

Edit: no, the Indians drew less than 20k per game last year, which put them in 2nd to last place in all of MLB. The Browns are the only team in Ohio that doesn't struggle with attendance. The NBA in Dayton seems like a bad idea to me.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Last edited by ud2; 02-15-2013 at 11:11 AM..
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  #499  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:08 AM
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Anyone who thinks Dayton could support a NBA team over an extended period of time is insane and knows nothing about the business of sports. Just an absurd thought.
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  #500  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
A quick glance on google earth, it appears the fairgrounds site is slightly smaller than the entire paved area of the UD Arena complex. Hopefully if these rumors are even remotely true a large parking garage with multiple easy to navigate entry and exit points is a part of the plan. On site parking with easy access from multiple directions is a must. We do not need another poorly planned Nuthouse type facility in town.
If this has any merit, the discussions are about much more than the Fairgrounds specific site. It's the entire area betwen the Fairgrounds, the river, and Miami Valley that both UD and Miami Valley want to see redeveloped.
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