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  #1  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:53 PM
hoch21 hoch21 is offline
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Dayton not Going to a Depleted Big East with Limited NCAA Bids in 2014!

Being reported by ESPN, we will see what happens. I won't believe anything until Fox Sports releases anything.

Last edited by hoch21; 03-01-2013 at 12:37 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:54 PM
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again...still holding my breath...and maybe even longer...i hope they announce their intentions when they announce the x/butler additions.

other wise we're still on pins and needles until next year
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:00 PM
westchesterflyer westchesterflyer is offline
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Originally Posted by hoch21 View Post
nmfghh
Translation?
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:20 PM
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The ESPN article says it will be a 13-team league??!!
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
The ESPN article says it will be a 13-team league??!!
it was updated, now says:

"While Butler, Xavier and, most likely, Creighton are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 12-team league."
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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Dayton-Xavier Game Next Year?

Will UD play X next year with them in the Big East and the Flyers in the A-10?
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
Will UD play X next year with them in the Big East and the Flyers in the A-10?
i would doubt it...unless they're willing to make that one of their non-conference games.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
i would doubt it...unless they're willing to make that one of their non-conference games.
They might play us at Cintas so their students could make good use of all those pictures of the Presidents.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
They might play us at Cintas so their students could make good use of all those pictures of the Presidents.
maybe they'll give us a good pay day out of it to...i mean they'll have some new dough to throw around.

would prob be an ESPN game...if not its on tv somewhere.

seems good all around...if reports dayton are joining in 2014 are true...its a good buffer between the off year.
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:44 PM
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so if true, is that the big east throwing the A10 a bone so it's not completely hosed next season and to give it time to reload?

i still don't get the creighton thing. it is just too far to make sense for all of the other sports....

nyway, regardless, i am glad we are starting to get a sniff of closiure on this whole mess.
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:46 PM
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Xavier played Miami for all those years. If X and UD end up in different leagues, keeping UD as a fixture game makes a ton more sense than keeping Miami as a fixture game. I think the two will continue to play. Perhaps not twice, but they'll most likely keep playing each other.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:47 PM
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Everybody has different information. CBS seems to think the league is stopping at nine.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ght-stop-there
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
so if true, is that the big east throwing the A10 a bone so it's not completely hosed next season and to give it time to reload?

i still don't get the creighton thing. it is just too far to make sense for all of the other sports....

nyway, regardless, i am glad we are starting to get a sniff of closiure on this whole mess.
creighton makes more sense than say gonzaga...but again..travel doesnt seem to stop teams from this realignment stuff.

west virginia going to the big 12 is ridiculous...and someone posted an article the other day of them complaining about travel costs already.

simply doesn't seem to matter to the presidents/conferences.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
creighton makes more sense than say gonzaga...but again..travel doesnt seem to stop teams from this realignment stuff.

west virginia going to the big 12 is ridiculous...and someone posted an article the other day of them complaining about travel costs already.

simply doesn't seem to matter to the presidents/conferences.
If true, that is awesome, because that is the kind of thing that probably didn't occur to them.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
If true, that is awesome, because that is the kind of thing that probably didn't occur to them.
i'll see if i can find it...


here it is: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...ues-seriously/
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
i'll see if i can find it...


here it is: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...ues-seriously/
I believe you. It's very easy to believe. That's why it's so funny.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:13 PM
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Pete Thamel has it in SI. Saying about the same thing. Nine teams for 13/14 and 12 including us in 14/15.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:16 PM
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ording-sources

Reading the article, with the latest update ESPN now says Creighton in next year too for a total of 10 next season.

Why wait a year for the last two?
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
so if true, is that the big east throwing the A10 a bone so it's not completely hosed next season and to give it time to reload?

.
I think it is more about the Big East helping pay the exit fees for 2 teams to leave quick but not wanting to pay it for everyone.
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  #20  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ording-sources

Reading the article, with the latest update ESPN now says Creighton in next year too for a total of 10 next season.

Why wait a year for the last two?
who knows...maybe media has it wrong and they stick with 10
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  #21  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ording-sources

Reading the article, with the latest update ESPN now says Creighton in next year too for a total of 10 next season.

Why wait a year for the last two?
I agree, this is worrisome. It doesn't really pass the smell test.
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  #22  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ording-sources

Reading the article, with the latest update ESPN now says Creighton in next year too for a total of 10 next season.

Why wait a year for the last two?
I agree. Not sure why the wait. Not very reassuring.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I think it is more about the Big East helping pay the exit fees for 2 teams to leave quick but not wanting to pay it for everyone.
Yeah, that's possible, but with 12 teams isn't the tv contract going to be bigger? I think it goes from $30 million/year for 10 teams to $40 million/year for 12 teams. $3 million each for 10 teams to $3.33 million each for 12 teams.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
I agree. Not sure why the wait. Not very reassuring.
What are the exit fees? It's possible that Dayton/St. Louis wanted to wait a year to avoid higher exit fees. Maybe MVC has lower exit fees. It may be that the C7 was willing to pay the exit fees for X/Butler but nobody else. Any number of reasons it could be that way.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
What are the exit fees? It's possible that Dayton/St. Louis wanted to wait a year to avoid higher exit fees. Maybe MVC has lower exit fees. It may be that the C7 was willing to pay the exit fees for X/Butler but nobody else. Any number of reasons it could be that way.
I thought I read the exit fee was $2.0 million.

Edit: the article mentions $2.0 million to leave with less than a year's notice. That might be it.

Last edited by MD Flyer Pride; 02-28-2013 at 08:29 PM.. Reason: more info
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  #26  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:28 PM
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Bad season this year, but we may end up losing the battle and winning the war so to speak. Some have said we'd be bottom-dwellers in the C7 league, but I don't think so. I think we'll see the same Dayton we always see. Strong non-con. Slightly above .500 basketball in conference (on average). It's just that with a stronger league, our mediocre conference performance will put us right where we want to be... in the tourney more often than we're out.

We'll probably still be a notch below where we want to be... that's pretty much always going to be the case, I think.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
I agree. Not sure why the wait. Not very reassuring.
this is why i hope at the very least...when this announcement is made they state their intentions of adding UD/STL in 2014 as well.

i think it would only make sense and it gives A10 a heads up as well.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:30 PM
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Speculation:

They are waiting to see if Notre Dame has a home for 13-14.

If not:

Xavier, Butler, ND for 10 in 13-14. ND leaves after that. Add 3 more for 12.

If ND moves straight to the ACC:

Add one of the three to get to 10, then add the other two in 14-15. Creighton makes some sense as otherwise SLU or Dayton would be stuck alone in the western half of the A10 for a year.

If they add XU, BU, UD, SLU, and Creighton straight away, they'd have to have 13 teams in 13-14 OR say no to ND. I don't think you say no to ND, when they could very well come crawling back in a few years when their deal with the ACC falls apart (as it will).
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  #29  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
I thought I read the exit fee was $2.0 million.

Edit: the article mentions $2.0 million to leave with less than a year's notice. That might be it.
wow...might be spot on here.


hope thats the case
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  #30  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:31 PM
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One interesting thing of note. Because butler and Xavier are going in first, they will have a vote on whom to add or block (like villanova to st joes) in just a couple of months
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
One interesting thing of note. Because butler and Xavier are going in first, they will have a vote on whom to add or block (like villanova to st joes) in just a couple of months
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Not if the contracts for all the teams are signed at the same time. Which is why it would make the most sense (from the perspective of the C7 schools) to make all their decisions now.
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:40 PM
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block vote from X?

Where did you read or hear that......
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  #33  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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More speculation...

Could it be that there was an agreement that only 2 teams would leave the A-10 this year and two next? Not sure. There might be an agreement not to leave the A-10 hanging with 4 departures at once.

This is a Catholic league... honesty, integrity, etc....
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  #34  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:46 PM
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I just hope we make it to Barclays now. We can hop on the subway and catch both tourneys with our old and new friends.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Title_BU View Post
One interesting thing of note. Because butler and Xavier are going in first, they will have a vote on whom to add or block (like villanova to st joes) in just a couple of months
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Not necessarily.

Are X and BU going to be considered charter members??

What does being a charter member even mean??

What are the bylaws?? Have they even come up with any yet?? Maybe only charter members get to vote on who gets added and who doesn't. Maybe not. Who knows.

I don't think it has even been decided who does and doesn't have "block votes," or how many "block votes" are required to keep a team from joining.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
More speculation...

Could it be that there was an agreement that only 2 teams would leave the A-10 this year and two next? Not sure. There might be an agreement not to leave the A-10 hanging with 4 departures at once.

This is a Catholic league... honesty, integrity, etc....
i wouldn't rule that out...anything is certainly possible.

especially considering if its going to be significantly cheaper for dayton/slu to leave a year later..could see them agreeing to it. then again...you would think we would announce are intentions to leave once this becomes official. otherwise if we just up and leave next year 2 mill comes into play again.


C7 had to get 2-3 teams now just to have the league so they could make FOX happy and start play next year.

x/butler were locks, so natural to grab them first...wouldnt surprise me to see C7 pitch in to help with the exit fees for them both as well.

Last edited by FlyerFanatic08; 02-28-2013 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Not necessarily.

Are X and BU going to be considered charter members??

What does being a charter member even mean??

What are the bylaws?? Have they even come up with any yet?? Maybe only charter members get to vote on who gets added and who doesn't. Maybe not. Who knows.

I don't think it has even been decided who does and doesn't have "block votes," or how many "block votes" are required to keep a team from joining.
also i don't think X would block UD anyways.

the teams might hate each other on the court...but the presidents are reportedly pretty close and i'm sure level headed enough to know what we bring.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 PM
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I have to believe all this will put a damper on the A10 tourney. Temple and Charlotte already leaving. Now butler and X. With UD and SLU to follow. Hard to build up and keep interest in a conference like that.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:54 PM
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I hope it's announced all a once for a lot of reasons, but one that is lesser considered is recruiting. I'd like recruits to be comfortable knowing for sure the situation after next season (big boy basketball on big boy tv)
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:03 PM
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I really think that X is a strong advocate for UD in the new league. In fact, it makes me a bit nervous for X to be separated from UD even for one year. Once our tie with X is cut, the C7 may consider changing their minds in the "second phase" of expansion.

Until C7 extends UD an official invitation that can't be taken away, I'm going to remain nervous.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:04 PM
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Nothing new here really. Same speculation different names and order, but hopefully they are correct about an announcement coming. I'll be surprised if Creighton joins. Geographically doesn't fit.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UD90 View Post
Nothing new here really. Same speculation different names and order, but hopefully they are correct about an announcement coming. I'll be surprised if Creighton joins. Geographically doesn't fit.
might be too much smoke for it not to be a fire at this point.

espn crew (mcmurphy, oneill, katz), wetzel (yahoo), thamel (SI) all are reporting this.

granted goodman (cbssports) was reporting earlier just going to 9 and maybe sticking with it.

but yeah...something should be happening probably early next week.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UD90
I'll be surprised if Creighton joins. Geographically doesn't fit.
I was thinking the same thing - if they have two divisions, who from the midwest would be added to the 5 east coast schools? Or would they not have divisions and just a 12 team league?
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I think it is more about the Big East helping pay the exit fees for 2 teams to leave quick but not wanting to pay it for everyone.
Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
What are the exit fees? It's possible that Dayton/St. Louis wanted to wait a year to avoid higher exit fees. Maybe MVC has lower exit fees. It may be that the C7 was willing to pay the exit fees for X/Butler but nobody else. Any number of reasons it could be that way.
Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
I thought I read the exit fee was $2.0 million.

Edit: the article mentions $2.0 million to leave with less than a year's notice. That might be it.
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2...and-exit-fees/


- The Atlantic 10′s exit fee is $1 million with one year’s notice. It’s $2 million with less than a year’s notice.

So, I assume the A10 exit fee is at least $2 million each for Butler and X.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:14 PM
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Sorry but I see not getting in next year as a snub, if in 2014 why not now?

you mean we can't afford/don't want to pay the exit fee?

I truly don't get this, call me naive or stupid
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:26 PM
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There is no honor among the powers that be in conference realignment. Everyone is out for themselves, including the leagues. Promises are broken, agreements annulled, contracts torn up or litigated away. What another league or institution told you a week ago has no bearing on what they might think this week or next.

It's imperative that UD gets into this new league as quickly as possible, at whatever price needs to be paid. Eighteen months in league realignment is an eternity. We've seen schools pay en exit fee and leave a league, pay an entry fee to join a league, pay an exit fee to leave the league they just joined, and pay an entry fee to return to the league they originally left in a much shorter time than Dayton may be waiting to play their first game in a new Catholic conference.

The entire realignment process has been full of nothing but backstabbing, lies, and other fleabag acts to try to jockey over others to put yourself in the best possible position. Its kill or be killed.

You force Dayton to wait 18 months, there's a good chance what you're waiting on won't be there when the time comes. Contracts aren't going to stop things. Its just a piece of paper. Schools and leagues will ultimately do whatever they choose and litigate it later.

Until someone at the Arena is physically painting a new conference logo on the floor, I'm not anticipating or awaiting anything -- no matter what schools or reporters tell me.

The fact that most are saying UD and a cpl other schools -- in the best case scenario -- would arrive later than other schools in the new league, suggests to me there's already a hierarchy of master and slave being concocted. Perhaps I'm being far too cynical and things will be completely equitable, but knowing what I know about the existing C7, they see absolutely nothing equitable between themselves and an in-bred, red-headed stepchild institution like UD. And they will do everything they can to keep it that way.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:34 PM
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This isn't too reassuring...

From DDN:
UD Athletic Director Tim Wabler has been following the developments but said the school hasn’t been contacted.

“There’s been no communication at all with anyone representing the Catholic 7 and the University of Dayton,” he said. “We’re reading the same reports, but we haven’t heard anything.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...may-add/nWdF6/
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:36 PM
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http://www.whiotv.com/news/sports/co...may-add/nWdF6/
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:50 PM
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it's never good to be an afterthought but trust me the C7 + 2 will be a YAWNER of a league...too small for starters...
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
“There’s been no communication at all with anyone representing the Catholic 7 and the University of Dayton,” he said. “We’re reading the same reports, but we haven’t heard anything.”
No communication at all? Yikes.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:00 PM
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Why on earth would we be forced to wait a year before joining? Sort of like the little brother getting our faces pushed in the mashed potatoes. Will always be the whipping boys. Who would agree to this?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:02 PM
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and with so much churn in the market getting left behind might be a good thing...there is nothing certain at this point regarding where all the football schools end up and until there is more clarity there then any C7 formation is subject to wild gyration. I can't even begin to suggest the possibilities...I'll get back with you once the B1G situation settles...
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:04 PM
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FYI, Xavier's AD has made a statement not all that different than Wabler's.

From the Cincy Enquirer:


Xavier will join the Catholic Seven in the new-look Big East next fall according to this story on ESPN.com.

Musketeers athletic director Mike Bobinski said there is nothing happening on Xavier’s end at this point.

“We are aware of the surroundings and circumstances like everyone else is. I would not be surprised if ultimately we have an opportunity to have a conversation, but at this point that has not happened,” Bobinski said.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:05 PM
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If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Why on earth would we be forced to wait a year before joining? Sort of like the little brother getting our faces pushed in the mashed potatoes. Will always be the whipping boys. Who would agree to this?
i have no idea...and i don't think we'll ever find out.

again...i don't care how it gets done...you gotta go. if they told UD they had to wait 2 yrs before joining, you do it.

its been speculated a bit as to why they wouldnt add everyone at once, but maybe the most obvious is:

the C7 schools can't agree on who to add past butler/x.

maybe they want more time to decide? maybe they don't want to pay 2 mill per school from the A-10 which would be 4 if x, butler, ud, stl all went.

who knows...again, i'm more worried we might not get invited. that wabler quote is a little more than concerning. not that he could say anything, but usually they disguise it as mumbo jumbo without coming out directly saying it.

that seemed like a pretty **** fine denial... my worries have grown.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:07 PM
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Bobinski says the same thing as TW?

Man, I wish I had access to TW's cell phone tonight!
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:10 PM
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big east

Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.
What an idiot post in the middle of all of this!
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:10 PM
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I have heard from my source today who is a retired Assistant AD from Xavier, has kept his contacts with the school and others from his involvement with the past selection committees. Confirmed by multiple sources, the C7 have decided on initially on a ten team league, with Butler and Xavier previously invited and Creighton will be the 10th. Georgetown did not support UD and Marquette is adamant in opposing us. The announcement will be made soon. The conference will expand to 12 teams sometime in the future with St Louis and Richmond in the clear lead as of today.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:11 PM
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Two reasons for the Wabler statement:

1) These decisions are not being made by ADs. They are being made by presidents.

2) Wabler knows something is happening, but was told a long time ago to shut the hell up about this issue and is following orders.

It's most likely a mix of the two.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:12 PM
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While Butler, Xavier and, most likely, Creighton are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 12-team league.
I'm with Chris, there is nothing here guaranteeing UD is going to be in this new league.

Hope Bernadette is on the phone with George Mason, Davidson, Belmont, and others to backfill. We may want to pay very close attention to who the A-10 is bringing in, since we very may well be playing ball with them for a long time.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.
Keep up the positive outlook, buster, there has been too much negative thinking
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 PM
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Are there any takers that we don't find out any more about this until after April???

Speculation, story gets old, more speculation. I hope I am wrong, but in this internet media age as soon as the first story hit - everyone jumped on it. Doug Harris even has his story out there already.

The rumor of Butler and Xavier has been there since they announced they were leaving the Big East. Until a "named source" says something it's just noise to me.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:17 PM
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Idea on why we're added later: charter members get a higher share of the spoils than members added later, and we're taking what we can get by agreeing to be a T+1 member? Just a thought.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dcflyer View Post
FYI, Xavier's AD has made a statement not all that different than Wabler's.

From the Cincy Enquirer:


Xavier will join the Catholic Seven in the new-look Big East next fall according to this story on ESPN.com.

Musketeers athletic director Mike Bobinski said there is nothing happening on Xavier’s end at this point.

“We are aware of the surroundings and circumstances like everyone else is. I would not be surprised if ultimately we have an opportunity to have a conversation, but at this point that has not happened,” Bobinski said.
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So who do you believe ... the "unnamed sources" or the AD's at the schools in question?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:21 PM
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Very disappointed if we are not in a competitive conference. This affects every sport.

Suggest we join the Horizon League
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:25 PM
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Even if UD stays in the new A-11, it's by no means the end of the world. That's still a 2 or 3 bid league most years, and the Flyers should be one of the top teams most years. Kissel and now Wabler have done a good job playing the RPI/SOS game with the schedule and I don't see how this changes things too much. I would be shocked if we don't continue to play X every year so the only teams I will really miss playing is Temple and Umass. I think this could lead to more ncaa appearances.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:27 PM
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Wink Red Squares Are You

Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.
Becareful Buster, or the natives will turn your green squares into red. How dare you know how to read between the lines. What is wrong with you? Don you want red squares to be your destiny?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post

Hope Bernadette is on the phone with George Mason, Davidson, Belmont, and others to backfill. We may want to pay very close attention to who the A-10 is bringing in, since we very may well be playing ball with them for a long time.
If Creighton leaves the MVC I certainly hope she is also calling Wichita State and Bradley. I would imagine Murray State, Charleston and Siena are also on her radar.

The A10 will be fine. Plenty of quality programs out there to keep it a top 10 RPI conference year in and year out.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:30 PM
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Sorry if this already been posted since there are a number of threads, but if you want more speculation and "insider" news, how about the C-7/Big east Board

http://holylandofhoops.com/
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.

Please go away.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NovaFlyer View Post
Very disappointed if we are not in a competitive conference. This affects every sport.

Suggest we join the Horizon League

The reconstituted A-10 will still be a multi-bid conference . . . the Horizon League, not so much.

But by all means, suggest away.

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Becareful Buster, or the natives will turn your green squares into red. How dare you know how to read between the lines. What is wrong with you? Don you want red squares to be your destiny?

I'm not on here to win a popularity contest. I'm disgusted with the quality of return we receive on a regular basis. It's looking like we could very easily get left out. Same thing as the early 90's...all about results and we don't deliver in that sense.

We have won a lot of games, but 1 win in the NCAA tournament in 20 years is embarrassing. The money pumped into the program with ticket increases, enhancements made to the Donoher Center and Arena. 1 win in the tournament. Those wins pay the bills...see Gonzaga, Butler and Xavier.

Won't be fun watching the big boys playing in the Big East from our trailer park. Yes there are still okay teams left in the A10 but remember Temple is outta here too. Lots of high school gyms left with Butler and Xavier out.

Last edited by Buster Goode; 02-28-2013 at 10:44 PM..
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  #73  
Old 02-28-2013, 10:42 PM
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ction/1955419/

Possible A-10 replacements: Detroit, Fairfield, George Mason, James Madison, College of Charleston, Davidson.

Yeah, we'd better get into the new Big East.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2...and-exit-fees/


- The Atlantic 10′s exit fee is $1 million with one year’s notice. It’s $2 million with less than a year’s notice.

So, I assume the A10 exit fee is at least $2 million each for Butler and X.

FWIW, it is sounding like the MVC doesn't even have an exit fee. So, Creighton would appear to have an advantage in that department.


http://www.courierpressblogs.com/sports/ue/?p=2283

—As far as I can find, there’s been no reports about the MVC’s exit fee, or confirmation that the league even has one. When asked by email last week about this, correspondence wasn’t returned by an MVC official.

https://twitter.com/Todd_Hefferman/s...29777656684544

@MVCfans I read a story, believe it was DM Register, that said MVC has no exit fees.




Originally Posted by TD Flyer View Post
I have heard from my source today who is a retired Assistant AD from Xavier, has kept his contacts with the school and others from his involvement with the past selection committees. Confirmed by multiple sources, the C7 have decided on initially on a ten team league, with Butler and Xavier previously invited and Creighton will be the 10th. Georgetown did not support UD and Marquette is adamant in opposing us. The announcement will be made soon. The conference will expand to 12 teams sometime in the future with St Louis and Richmond in the clear lead as of today.
Man, that doesn't sound good. But, it sounds like they will be evaluating the last two members over the next year or more, so UD may be able to position themselves back into consideration with a good performance this year and next year. There isn't really anything UD can do to alter the circumstances, other than play as well as they can, so they should just try to do their best and create the best impression.

If the talk of the new arena is real, that would certainly help UD's position.

Last edited by ud2; 02-28-2013 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Please go away.

Funny, that seems to be the same thing Marquette and Georgetown are saying to Tim Wabler.

Go UD
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dcflyer View Post
From the Cincy Enquirer:
...

Musketeers athletic director Mike Bobinski said there is nothing happening on Xavier’s end at this point.

“We are aware of the surroundings and circumstances like everyone else is. I would not be surprised if ultimately we have an opportunity to have a conversation, but at this point that has not happened,” Bobinski said.
Maybe he was busy lining up a realtor in Atlanta and missed the call. He should probably check his voice mail.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:03 PM
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ADs are all going to say they havent heard from anyone. Thats just the boilerplate phrase. Just like when you are hiring a football coach and the XYZ coach says "Nobody has contacted me, I love my job here."

All of the involved institutions know pretty much where they stand on things -- as much as the can given the volatile landscape anyway. Whether they make it the public's business as they jockey for position is another thing altogether. They aren't going to make public any statements that jeopardize their negotiations and certainly won't intimate potential things that could still fall through. So they tell you all they think you need to know at a given time, not what you want to know. Can't blame them.

At some point UD needs to remain aligned with the Xavier type schools. Not doing so drops Dayton to another tier of perceived relevance. It would change the program to its detriment in a severe way. Basically it would be a referendum that your peers don't want you. If they feel that way, other schools beyond these peers want to know why. So do recruits and other future coaching candidates. It would not just be a step back, it would be a back-breaker for this sports department. It would be humbling and somewhat embarrassing. "We no longer want you to eat at our table. Go away." I always preferred the A10 cherrypicking the C7 to insulate ourselves from this.

And at the end of the day, everyone pulled their weight but men's hoops, and its not because men's hoops hasn't been given everything it needs to succeed (practice facilities, coaches offices, charter flights, fan support). Everyone else practically turned water into wine in fact, given the same relative competitive impediments in their respective A10 sport.

Im sure the reports will continue to change course many times over the next few days and weeks. Everyone wants to be "that guy" who breaks the real scoop. So people report anything they hear regardless of the truthfulness of it. So don't get too worked up. Nothing you can do about any of it anyway. You are completely powerless. The sooner you tell yourself that, the easier it is accept whatever happens.
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  #78  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:08 PM
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Could Dayton petition to join the Missouri Valley Conference? Just a thought if the new Big East snubs the Flyers while taking both Creighton and St. Louis.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
ADs are all going to say they havent heard from anyone. . . involved institutions know pretty much where they stand on things . . .Whether they make it the public's business as they jockey for position is another thing altogether. They aren't going to make public any statements that jeopardize their negotiations and certainly won't intimate potential things that could still fall through.

But what about Beatty and Buster? Shouldn't the Two Bees be apprised of the administration's every move?
Oh, right.
You just answered that.
Nevermind . . .

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by UD Dave View Post
Could Dayton petition to join the Missouri Valley Conference?
Yes, and they probably would take us in a minute to replace Creighton to get back to ten teams. However, UD likes their ties to the East coast. They would probably wait and see who the A-10 adds before making any move. The problem in staying in the A-10 would be, we might be the only midwestern team left.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
If we haven't been contacted or talked to anyone, we are caught sitting with our Johnson in our hand. Terrible. Another notch in the belt of one of the most under-achieving programs in all of basketball.

Dayton Basketball. Worst fan ROI in the game.
Then stop following them. Quit the whining.
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  #82  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:22 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by NovaFlyer View Post
Very disappointed if we are not in a competitive conference. This affects every sport.

Suggest we join the Horizon League
Get used to the A10, UD isn't going anywhere, certainly not to the Big East. The administration has done a very low end job of marketing the program. Very Low End! At the midnight hour, they came out with a press release letting everyone know that Dayton Ohio was the biggest basketball market, but they failed to mention all the other schools said households were actually watching. Clue...it isn't the Dayton Flyers. You can take that to the bank, or well be forced to keep your green squares while living in the bubble known as "UD Basketball Fairy Tale Land".

More to your point, nothing wrong with the A10; it's finishing 8th place or below every year that is the problem. A10 served Xavier well; and in one year it is going to serve Butler very well. Gonzaga might end being #1 in the country out of WCC; so you need not be a particular conference to be nationally successful. Conference is not UD's problem, rather execution on the court is. Mid-level coaching is another major issue for us, but not conference, as A10 is very fine conference.

Nothing wrong with an A10 that would have SLU, UMass, St. Joes, Richmond, Rhody, Saint Bonnies, LaSalle, Dayton, add Mason or Davidson, etc..., and this continues to be a multi bid NCAA conference. Learn to execute on the court, and you bring in top tier conference finishes, typically make semis or better of conference tourney, and you win 2 or 3 games in NCAA every other year, making a few NIT's in-between, and that is a "Competitive Conference". That's all you need. You make the money by filling the seats, selling products, and getting paid bigger dollars by both the NCAA and the NIT. That's how you make the NCAA and the money; not by getting all delusional about what stature your program is.

No reason why UD cannot become the Memphis, Butler, Gonzaga, VCU, UNLV, et.al. of the college basketball world. The only reason I see, is an administration that cannot get out the way of themselves. They can't even get the intro music right, let alone make the NCAA or be invited to the Big East.
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  #83  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:25 PM
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Thumbs up

[QUOTE=Buster Goode;300676]I'm not on here to win a popularity contest. I'm disgusted with the quality of return we receive on a regular basis. It's looking like we could very easily get left out. Same thing as the early 90's...all about results and we don't deliver in that sense. QUOTE]

Tell me about it. I know how you fell, that was my point. Carry On!
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Nothing wrong with an A10 that would have SLU, UMass, St. Joes, Richmond, Rhody, Saint Bonnies, LaSalle, Dayton, add Mason or Davidson, etc..., and this continues to be a multi bid NCAA conference. out what stature your program is.
But take away St Louis, Richmond, and UMass and what do you have?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:31 PM
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Although the article initially sounded authoritative, it apparently is not. There is no official word from anyone. The AD's from UD and XU deny that they have been contacted. The staggered admissions make no sense - and if true it isnt a good thing for UD in any respect - if anything, we would have zero leverage and would be forced to accept any second class terms offered.

All the rumblings that Marquette and Georgetown oppose us aren't good. The only reason I can think that would be true is that they view our men's basketball team as so far beneath them. And for the most part they are right. The only thing big time about us is our fan support.

If we don't get into the new league, it is a complete and utter disaster. It's the one and only chance to play against similar, like minded basketball teams with whom we have historical rivalries. The new watered down A-10 schedule, and our terrible OOC slate, may do the one thing that not even 4 and 5 win seasons could do - kill attendance/the golden goose. We've gone too many years without running the program like a big time program. Hopefully it doesn't kill us.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:33 PM
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This thread turned pretty quickly.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:34 PM
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[QUOTE=Beatty Town Coach;300691]
Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
I'm not on here to win a popularity contest. I'm disgusted with the quality of return we receive on a regular basis. It's looking like we could very easily get left out. Same thing as the early 90's...all about results and we don't deliver in that sense. QUOTE]

Tell me about it. I know how you fell, that was my point. Carry On!
You two don't know anything and just like to b**ch. If you could read, you would know that all credible reports, including ESPN, have Dayton and SLU joining in 14. Makes some sense from scheduling standpoint.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride View Post
This isn't too reassuring...

From DDN:
UD Athletic Director Tim Wabler has been following the developments but said the school hasn’t been contacted.

“There’s been no communication at all with anyone representing the Catholic 7 and the University of Dayton,” he said. “We’re reading the same reports, but we haven’t heard anything.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...may-add/nWdF6/
There is a difference between not having been contacted at all, and not having been contacted in the last 24 hours regarding what the media is reporting.

I would bet next weeks pay that UD has been contacted and had discussions regarding the C7 alignment itself, but maybe not regarding the recently reported information.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:34 PM
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checking over at holylandofhoops site...someone from providence seems to believe what was being reported to be true according to their source:

"I was told butler, Xavier and Creighton for next year. St. Louis and Dayton the following year. And we have the Big East name. I know that info is being reported everywhere now so it's nothing new, but no room for the Irish at the inn (at least in the first 12 teams)."

someone asked them what their source was:


"Someone close to Fr. Shanley"

shanley is prez at providence
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth View Post
Although the article initially sounded authoritative, it apparently is not. There is no official word from anyone. The AD's from UD and XU deny that they have been contacted. The staggered admissions make no sense - and if true it isnt a good thing for UD in any respect - if anything, we would have zero leverage and would be forced to accept any second class terms offered.

All the rumblings that Marquette and Georgetown oppose us aren't good. The only reason I can think that would be true is that they view our men's basketball team as so far beneath them. And for the most part they are right. The only thing big time about us is our fan support.

If we don't get into the new league, it is a complete and utter disaster. It's the one and only chance to play against similar, like minded basketball teams with whom we have historical rivalries. The new watered down A-10 schedule, and our terrible OOC slate, may do the one thing that not even 4 and 5 win seasons could do - kill attendance/the golden goose. We've gone too many years without running the program like a big time program. Hopefully it doesn't kill us.
All of the AD's are denying being contacted. That's what they're supposed to say. I imagine for legal reasons they have to be careful in how they phrase it. There is a lot of money at stake and exit fees to consider.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:39 PM
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I guarantee all the players have been contacted and oral assurances have been made. There is no way Fox is going to put up this kind of money without knowing exactly who the players are. It's already a done deal if the TV contract is in place.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth View Post
All the rumblings that Marquette and Georgetown oppose us aren't good. The only reason I can think that would be true is that they view our men's basketball team as so far beneath them.
Could be that, too, but I think it might also have to do with geography. Georgetown wants Richmond, and Marquette wants Creighton and SLU.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
All of the AD's are denying being contacted. That's what they're supposed to say. I imagine for legal reasons they have to be careful in how they phrase it. There is a lot of money at stake and exit fees to consider.
Unless Wabler is lying, his quote couldn't be more clear. There is no wiggle room in what he said - there has been no contact at all between UD and the BE7 (or their representatives). The way he phrased it was pretty jarring and not positive.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:42 PM
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If this was posted before, a thousand pardons, Sahib.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...tholic-7-news/

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/02/...-anew-in-2013/

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colle...06d2a41d6.html

Last edited by bobber; 02-28-2013 at 11:48 PM..
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:43 PM
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:
Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth View Post
Unless Wabler is lying, his quote couldn't be more clear. There is no wiggle room in what he said - there has been no contact at all between UD and the BE7 (or their representatives). The way he phrased it was pretty jarring and not positive.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky."
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:47 PM
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[QUOTE=TA111;300697]
Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post

You two don't know anything and just like to b**ch. If you could read, you would know that all credible reports, including ESPN, have Dayton and SLU joining in 14. Makes some sense from scheduling standpoint.
I love it...the *****ing that is. Isn't life grand! But what we know is that UD has not helped themselves have a strong hand at the negotiations table.

If UD joins the Big East for 2013-14 academic year, I will buy you a dinner of your choice. You name it...but you have to listen to me *****.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ction/1955419/

Possible A-10 replacements: Detroit, Fairfield, George Mason, James Madison, College of Charleston, Davidson.

Yeah, we'd better get into the new Big East.
That is the author's opinion and a pretty garbage one. There are several better options than Fairfield, JMU and Manhattan.

Don't get me wrong I want to be in this new league as much as the next guy, but if we are left out the A10 would be still be a very good league. That is assuming McGlade does her due diligence.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth View Post
If we don't get into the new league, it is a complete and utter disaster. It's the one and only chance to play against similar, like minded basketball teams with whom we have historical rivalries. The new watered down A-10 schedule, and our terrible OOC slate, may do the one thing that not even 4 and 5 win seasons could do - kill attendance/the golden goose. We've gone too many years without running the program like a big time program. Hopefully it doesn't kill us.
Until Houston admits we have a problem, we'll continue on the same trajectory we've been on. I've offered my opinion before:

Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
1) Hire a consulting firm to figure out what our peer competitors (Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, Creighton) are doing to be successful. What aren't we doing that we can or should be doing? What obstacles are we facing that they don't face? What of these obstacles can we overcome; what will we have to accept and attempt to work around? What strengths do we bring to bear that they don't have? How can we leverage these strengths further?
2) Put a sports psychologist on the staff for the express purpose of analyzing team behavior, practice habits, interpersonal relationships as seasons wear on. We've got to figure out why we CONSISTENTLY lay an egg in conference.
3) Play one less game at UD Arena in the non-con to open up a nationally televised one way away date with Ohio State, Indiana, Kentucky, Duke, etc.
4) Ensure we're either grooming an assistant to take the reins when the HC moves on, or to stay on staff when a new coach arrives. Make this a condition of employment for the new coach. Absent a remaining assistant on the bench, make as a condition of employment for a young, untested head coach the requirement for an assistant with head coaching experience.
5) Loosen admission requirements to accept more borderline student-athletes.
6) Cut funding to select non-revenue sports if needed to fund men's basketball operations. Pay the coach(es) more if needed to obtain & maintain quality talent on the bench. Expand recruiting budget.
7) If we're left behind, take the lead in developing strategic partnerships with other quality mid-major programs (Wichita State, George Mason, St Marys, New Mexico, UNLV, BYU, Murray State) to ensure home-home scheduling. In effect, create an informal secondary league.
8) Publicly state what our goals are and report back to students, alumni, boosters how we are doing in achieving those goals. State what we're going to change if still unsuccessful. Be accountable to the "shareholders" and acknowledge their continued support by showing a concrete efforts to improve.
9) Develop a national brand based on court success, not ancillary basketball achievements.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Until Houston admits we have a problem, we'll continue on the same trajectory we've been on. I've offered my opinion before:

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Old 03-01-2013, 12:02 AM
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[QUOTE=TA111;300697]
Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post

You two don't know anything and just like to b**ch. If you could read, you would know that all credible reports, including ESPN, have Dayton and SLU joining in 14. Makes some sense from scheduling standpoint.
My bad. If ESPN is saying that, we are fine. They are always right.
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