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  #401  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
OK, now for the (field of) $68,000 question. Should the Flyers stub their collective toe on Friday at Rhode Island's house of (recent) horrors, will their place in this week's standings be lofty enough - and will their reputation be solid enough - to keep them ranked? Tied for 17th in the USA Today Coaches and sitting at 19th in the AP. I know a lot of it would depend on how other Top 15-30 teams do this week and weekend. But just curious what others on here think. Actually, for those who know how to easily create polls, this might be a fun poll question for Thursday and Friday leading up to the game.

Personally, I think anything but a double-digit loss would keep Dayton in both polls. They have gained a lot of respect from most media members by now and by coaches (or their assistants who vote) who follow other games/teams at all. I'm hoping we can grind out a rare win in Kingston and this becomes a moot point. But if we drop to 20-4 (10-2), what say the masses about our chances to stick around in the 2 major polls next week?
I think that's a great question and my opinion is any loss the remainder of our schedule is going to drop us significantly unless the team we lose to gets ranked also. If we lose on Friday, voters might also see we barely got by Duquesne at home and penalize us somewhat harshly for it.
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  #402  
Old 02-11-2016, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I think that's a great question and my opinion is any loss the remainder of our schedule is going to drop us significantly unless the team we lose to gets ranked also. If we lose on Friday, voters might also see we barely got by Duquesne at home and penalize us somewhat harshly for it.
Smitty, this is not the Flyer Team with heart breaking losses we have grown to love, this is something different. We WILL win at Rhody. We WILL win the A10. We WILL have a big time seed in the NCAA. We HAVE moved the bar from good to great. We are UD.
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  #403  
Old 02-11-2016, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottyExpress View Post
Smitty, this is not the Flyer Team with heart breaking losses we have grown to love, this is something different. We WILL win at Rhody. We WILL win the A10. We WILL have a big time seed in the NCAA. We HAVE moved the bar from good to great. We are UD.
Yes, I agree, however the question was "If we lose". And what you and I know about the Flyers is most likely more than majority of the voters do.
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  #404  
Old 02-11-2016, 07:55 AM
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I think this team has a good shot at setting the modern era UD record for finishing the season with the best AP poll ranking.

#16 in the final 2002-2003 poll in OP's last year is the mark to beat.


http://collegepollarchive.com/mbaske...3#.VryEUqhOnxA

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  #405  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:32 AM
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The Top 25 seas parted in front of us last night.
14 Iowa St falls to Texas Tech
15 Texas A&M falls to Alabama
16 SMU falls to Tulsa

The door is open. Our Flyers just need to take care of business and walk thru.
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  #406  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:39 AM
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And then there is URI...

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
The Top 25 seas parted in front of us last night.
14 Iowa St falls to Texas Tech
15 Texas A&M falls to Alabama
16 SMU falls to Tulsa

The door is open. Our Flyers just need to take care of business and walk thru.
I'll be at Kingston, as usual,...prepared for the worst. Two years ago UD played so poorly at URI that I was embarrassed. I recall thinking, "This team plays like they don't have a coach". For the rest of the way UD was great, all the way to an Elite. How can that be?

I surely hope for a different outcome this year.

(I might add, URI played very well, especially offensively. If the Flyers are able to clamp down on defense that may be the difference.)
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  #407  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I'll be at Kingston, as usual
So it's your fault. . .
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  #408  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:52 AM
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Yup...

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I'll be at Kingston, as usual,...prepared for the worst. Two years ago UD played so poorly at URI that I was embarrassed. I recall thinking, "This team plays like they don't have a coach". For the rest of the way UD was great, all the way to an Elite. How can that be?

I surely hope for a different outcome this year.

(I might add, URI played very well, especially offensively. If the Flyers are able to clamp down on defense that may be the difference.)
Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
So it's your fault. . .
...certainly seems that way. I'd gladly stay home if I thought that would help.
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  #409  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...certainly seems that way. I'd gladly stay home if I thought that would help.
Obviously can't hurt
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  #410  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:41 PM
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Wouldn't help though...

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...certainly seems that way. I'd gladly stay home if I thought that would help.
Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Obviously can't hurt
...there's more; and it gets worse. I've been getting over to Kingston since UD joined the A10....but not last year.

Last year we're all set to go...standing by the car...when Charlie, the URI alum who gets us into the URI president's suite says, "I'm not feeling 100%". "Waddya mean, Charlie?" Well, Charlie goes on to explain what "not feeling 100%" means. My other friend looks at me....I look at him. We say, "Ya know Charlie, this kinda sounds like when you last had a kidney stone". "Nah", says Charlie...."let's get going". My friend and I think about what it might be like for Charlie to have a kidney stone attack in the car half way to Kingston. "Charlie, instead of Kingston, let's head over to the ER",...which is what we do. Sure enough, Charlie has an attack on the way to the ER, where we spend the next few hours with him.

So,....no BB game at Kingston. Dayton lost anyway..so it's not me. If I really thought it was,....

(I think it's been over ten years since the Flyers won at Kingston. Good grief!)
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  #411  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...there's more; and it gets worse. I've been getting over to Kingston since UD joined the A10....but not last year.

Last year we're all set to go...standing by the car...when Charlie, the URI alum who gets us into the URI president's suite says, "I'm not feeling 100%". "Waddya mean, Charlie?" Well, Charlie goes on to explain what "not feeling 100%" means. My other friend looks at me....I look at him. We say, "Ya know Charlie, this kinda sounds like when you last had a kidney stone". "Nah", says Charlie...."let's get going". My friend and I think about what it might be like for Charlie to have a kidney stone attack in the car half way to Kingston. "Charlie, instead of Kingston, let's head over to the ER",...which is what we do. Sure enough, Charlie has an attack on the way to the ER, where we spend the next few hours with him.

So,....no BB game at Kingston. Dayton lost anyway..so it's not me. If I really thought it was,....

(I think it's been over ten years since the Flyers won at Kingston. Good grief!)
Yes, but you intended to attend the game. Never did you make the hardcore decision to stay home because of your jinxing tendencies and the "jinx" was already in. The lord of jinxes can't spend every moment monitoring your intentions so you need to make them clear ahead of time.
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  #412  
Old 02-11-2016, 05:34 PM
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Well, yes,...

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yes, but you intended to attend the game. Never did you make the hardcore decision to stay home because of your jinxing tendencies and the "jinx" was already in. The lord of jinxes can't spend every moment monitoring your intentions so you need to make them clear ahead of time.
I suppose that's right. But, while I'm a cautious guy, I'm going to risk it...barring medical emergencies I'll be going to Kingston Friday.

I'm trying a different approach, though. For the past ten years, or so, I've been all pumped up and ready for a Flyer triumph. It hasn't worked. This year I'm trying a little reverse psychology on the assumption that the "Lord of Jinkes" may so busy with the presidential candidates that he won't notice.

I'm going to Kingston tomorrow "knowing" the Flyers are going to lose....knowing those mid-Westerners just aren't good enough to handle the guys from the East...knowing that the Rams always beat Dayton in Kingston..and tomorrow will be no exception. Then, if by some miracle Dayton should win, well.....

(...then the ride home will be pleasant for a change.)
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  #413  
Old 02-12-2016, 08:17 AM
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UAC. I just moved to RI and will be there tonight as well. Fingers crossed. I'm bringing my nephews and am teaching them to be transplant flyer fans. But I will tell you, feeling a wee bit nervous
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  #414  
Old 02-13-2016, 11:08 PM
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I know it's been a rough week for many ranked teams, but I did not realize this fact: every team ranked between #13 to #21 in the AP Poll lost this week, with the exception of the two teams coached by the Miller boys.
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  #415  
Old 02-13-2016, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 1903 Flyer View Post
I know it's been a rough week for many ranked teams, but I did not realize this fact: every team ranked between #13 to #21 in the AP Poll lost this week, with the exception of the two teams coached by the Miller boys.
Archie must be good for Sean. Older brother has to be unbelievably focused to not let his little brother pass him up in the rankings. That would probably be humiliating.
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  #416  
Old 02-14-2016, 10:51 PM
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16th in Parrish's 25&1
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  #417  
Old 02-14-2016, 11:06 PM
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Usually 5-6 writers publish tonight their ballots. Will keep updating as I see them published.

Rich Bozich puts Flyers in at #17 up from #24 (+7).
Seth Davis puts Flyers #22 up from #24 (+2)
Chris Daschle moves Flyers from to #12 from #19 (+7)
Brett Sterlow keeps Flyers same from #20 to #20 (+0)
David Borges moves Flyers to #13 from #17 (+4)
Mark Berman moves Flyers to #13 from #16 (+3)
Graham Couch moves Flyers to NR from #25 (-1)
Geoff Cramer moves Flyers to #22 from #25 (+3)
Doug Haller moves Flyers to #15 from #22. (+7)
Soren Petro keeps NR to NR (+0)
Chris Murray moves Flyers to #13 from #18 (+5)
Jerry Carino up to #12 from #16 (+4)
Geoff Cramer up to #22 from #25 (+3)

So average from the ballotts is +3 which would equal about #16 Dayton ranking.

Flyers headed to 14-16 based upon small sample size. I think they end up #15.

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  #418  
Old 02-14-2016, 11:45 PM
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I hope everyone had a great Christmas Eve today and is looking forward to opening their Top 15 present tomorrow. Christmas really should come every week.
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  #419  
Old 02-14-2016, 11:57 PM
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Lets see if the lone AP holdout that had UD #37 last week in his Top-40 moves us into his Top-35.
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  #420  
Old 02-15-2016, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Lets see if the lone AP holdout that had UD #37 last week in his Top-40 moves us into his Top-35.
Radio guy from Kansas that always has craziness in his ballot. As likely he puts Dayton 15 as he does not rank them. No rhyme or reason to his ballots.
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  #421  
Old 02-15-2016, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Usually 5-6 writers publish tonight their ballots. Will keep updating as I see them published.

Rich Bozich puts Flyers in at #17 up from #24 (+7).
Seth Davis puts Flyers #22 up from #24 (+2)
Chris Daschle moves Flyers from to #12 from #19 (+7)
Brett Sterlow keeps Flyers same from #20 to #20 (+0)
David Borges moves Flyers to #13 from #17 (+4)

So average from the 5 ballos +4 which would equal about #15.

Flyers headed to 14-16 based upon small sample size.
If these are the same voters you posted last Sunday night it should be 2 spots better than the small small sample size since it was that way last week. So, I predict 13.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
If these are the same voters you posted last Sunday night it should be 2 spots better than the small small sample size since it was that way last week. So, I predict 13.
5/7 voters the same -- other 2 haven't published yet.

BTW, bleacher report which doesn't have a vote has Dayton #15. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-top-25/page/4
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:04 AM
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Just saw Graham Crouch moved Flyers from #25 to out (#26) "to make room for Duke, Indiana, and Louisville."

There are not 25 teams with better resumes than the Flyers -- hoping for a Gary Parish poll attack!

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  #424  
Old 02-15-2016, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just saw Graham Crouch moved Flyers from #25 to out (#26) "to make room for Duke, Indiana, and Louisville."

There are not 25 teams with better resumes than the Flyers -- hoping for a Gary Parish poll attack!
WTH is this guy smoking?

Edit: OK, that explains it. He's looking at the world through P5-colored glasses. He "had to make room for Wisconsin, Indiana, and Duke". In other words:
- A team that lost by 19 at Michigan State yesterday and at RPI #114 Penn State a week ago;
- A team with 9 losses (including to Western Illinois, Georgetown, and Wisconsin-Milwaukee); and
- A team that lost at # 88 RPI Clemson, and that only won their last game because the refs forgot that "continuation" is only an NBA rule...

Are all "more worthy" than our Flyers. GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK!!

Big Ten jock-sniffer!
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  #425  
Old 02-15-2016, 07:27 AM
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I hate that perception matters in CBB but that is a simple fact. Clowns like Graham Couch keep teams like Dayton down. I truly do understand its impossible to watch each and every game. But to be that far off from your peers in terms of rankings is inexcusable. This guy just wants to suck at the teet of the P5. I'm surprised he didn't say "Indiana played my home school MSU to a draw in the first half yesterday. I don't care that they lost the second half by 30."
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  #426  
Old 02-15-2016, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Lets see if the lone AP holdout that had UD #37 last week in his Top-40 moves us into his Top-35.
He moved Dayton to #28?!?!?
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:47 PM
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13th in the Coaches Poll

http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa.../coaches-poll/
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  #428  
Old 02-15-2016, 12:52 PM
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I don't mind the attention but I'm not sure it's justified just yet. If we beat SJU on the road maybe, but, 13th is pretty rare air.

Do I fear more than a couple teams at the top? No. But do I really think we're the 13th best team in the country right now? That's a bit much to swallow.

But any other team taking advantage of everyone ahead of them losing won't ever apologize for it, so neither will I!
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:53 PM
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Jumped Oregon, Purdue, aTm and Iowa St.

If they do the same in the AP, plus add SMU to the mix, they'd jump to 14. I'm predicting that they don't pass Purdue and wind up at 15.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I don't mind the attention but I'm not sure it's justified just yet. If we beat SJU on the road maybe, but, 13th is pretty rare air.

Do I fear more than a couple teams at the top? No. But do I really think we're the 13th best team in the country right now? That's a bit much to swallow.

But any other team taking advantage of everyone ahead of them losing won't ever apologize for it, so neither will I!
I think it is a combination of us having an awesome season along with no real dominant teams and a lot of parity between the usual P5 schools.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:01 PM
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I think that is pretty fair Gazoo, as you alluded to, its the nature of the polls, for better or worse. Sweep this week and they might just push into the top 10, Miami and WVU both have tough games this week (WVU has @ Texas and home to OU, Miami travels to UNC next weekend) so one more upset up there and a top 10 ranking is possible.

However, most important, a sweep this weekend sets them up very favorably for a top 2 seed in the Brooklyn and I think locks up a top 4 seed (ie double bye) in Brooklyn since they most they could get to moving forward is 5 losses, which GW already has and UD won the head to head. Unless there is some exotic tie breaker that would go in GW's favor over UD in perhaps a large grouping of ties.

Big week for UD for sure.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I don't mind the attention but I'm not sure it's justified just yet. If we beat SJU on the road maybe, but, 13th is pretty rare air.

Do I fear more than a couple teams at the top? No. But do I really think we're the 13th best team in the country right now? That's a bit much to swallow.

But any other team taking advantage of everyone ahead of them losing won't ever apologize for it, so neither will I!
I think I disagree. Dayton could handle any team at home and would struggle like any other team would against a top 15 team on the road. At a neutral site, I see no reason why they aren't the 13-20th best team in the country.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I don't mind the attention but I'm not sure it's justified just yet. If we beat SJU on the road maybe, but, 13th is pretty rare air.

Do I fear more than a couple teams at the top? No. But do I really think we're the 13th best team in the country right now? That's a bit much to swallow.

But any other team taking advantage of everyone ahead of them losing won't ever apologize for it, so neither will I!
Okay, see being ranked 13th doesn't mean you're thought to be the 13th best team in the country. It just means to this point your success has put you temporarily in 13th place.

SJ is probably favored to beat the Flyers on Wednesday and if they do, We will probably drop back to 17th or worse. So the higher we climb, the better it is when we lose.
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  #434  
Old 02-15-2016, 01:22 PM
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Correction

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, see being ranked 13th doesn't mean you're thought to be the 13th best team in the country. It just means to this point your success has put you temporarily in 13th place.

SJ is probably favored to beat the Flyers on Wednesday and if they do, We will probably drop back to 17th or worse. So the higher we climb, the better it is when we lose.
If we lose.....
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  #435  
Old 02-15-2016, 01:29 PM
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2/15 AP poll just released:

We are #15, up from #19

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
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  #436  
Old 02-15-2016, 01:35 PM
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surpassed by Kentucky, by pass Purdue, but not Iowa St (passed up both in the coaches) also pass SMU, Oregon, aTm & Louisville
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
2/15 AP poll just released:

We are #15, up from #19

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
HUGE week ahead. Chance to add 2 top 50 wins and put ourselves in position to be at or near top 10 in coaches poll and AP 1 week from today. Crazy.

We haven't lost this season when both Pierre and Pollard have played. I wonder how much voters and coaches actually pay attention to things like this?

We need KP Wednesday. Period.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I don't mind the attention but I'm not sure it's justified just yet. If we beat SJU on the road maybe, but, 13th is pretty rare air.

Do I fear more than a couple teams at the top? No. But do I really think we're the 13th best team in the country right now? That's a bit much to swallow.

But any other team taking advantage of everyone ahead of them losing won't ever apologize for it, so neither will I!
Trying to define the "best x number of teams in the country" is very difficult in today's environment of parity. Quite frankly, I believe there are 35 teams or so that could make a Final Four run. I would put the Flyers in there along with Saint Joe's, VCU, and even the Bonnies. If any four of these teams get hot, they could make a run with anyone.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:06 PM
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How people like Soren Petro get a vote I do not know. I wanted to look him up and see his Top25 since UD was #37 last week and #28 this week. It all made sense once I read the rest of his "blog" for why he chose who he did. Apparently VCU and st joes play wednesday for the top spot in the A10.

I was going to do a screen grab but cant figure out how to post it. Here is the link
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  #440  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:20 PM
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I don't get it...Iowa State beats a barely top 25 Texas team and loses to an unranked Texas Tech (RPI 32); yet somehow they move up from 14 to 13. Anyone care to explain the thought process behind that?
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  #441  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
How people like Soren Petro get a vote I do not know. I wanted to look him up and see his Top25 since UD was #37 last week and #28 this week. It all made sense once I read the rest of his "blog" for why he chose who he did. Apparently VCU and st joes play wednesday for the top spot in the A10.

I was going to do a screen grab but cant figure out how to post it. Here is the link
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This seems to be his official show Twitter page: https://twitter.com/theprogramkc
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  #442  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:23 PM
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John Feinstein ranked us 8th, ahead of Xavier. Someone has to make up for those 2 lunkheads.
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  #443  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:29 PM
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For those of you on twitter, please retweet below so perhaps Gary Parish shames the two voters.

https://twitter.com/TomEggemeier/sta...13932675055616

‏@TomEggemeier 2m2 minutes ago
@GaryParrishCBS Please poll attack @theprogramkc (Dayton NR) but has Cincinnati #24 & @Graham_Couch who dropped Dayton from #25 to NR.
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  #444  
Old 02-15-2016, 02:30 PM
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As if they needed more motivation, Joe's is right on the edge of the Top25, and a win against us puts them there.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
This seems to be his official show Twitter page: https://twitter.com/theprogramkc
The Program ‏@theprogramkc 4h4 hours ago
The Program Retweeted Chris Calo
They are #28 in my latest rankings. Thanks for following college basketball. The Program added,
Chris Calo @ChrisCalo1
@DaytonMBB This is the only voter that doesn't have UD in top 25. We look forward to his vote this week. @theprogramkc

The Program ‏@theprogramkc 4h4 hours ago
The Program Retweeted GMan
Good news. They are up to #28 in my rankings. The Program added,
GMan @markgroeber
@theprogramkc Hopefully Dayton holds on to the #37 rank this week? 21-3, 12 RPI
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  #446  
Old 02-15-2016, 03:16 PM
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How They/AP Voted February 15th

February 15th AP voting:

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/ud2/2015
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:30 PM
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The more I think about our Flyers, our current ranking, and who we have coming back next season, the more convinced I am that we will remain in the top 25 at least through the beginning of the 2017-2018 season.

Thank You Archie and Staff
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  #448  
Old 02-15-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
HUGE week ahead. Chance to add 2 top 50 wins and put ourselves in position to be at or near top 10 in coaches poll and AP 1 week from today. Crazy.

We haven't lost this season when both Pierre and Pollard have played. I wonder how much voters and coaches actually pay attention to things like this?
The answer of course, is NONE. Every winning program has a gimmick line like that. Do the voters know that every time my mutt finds a fireplug we win the following road game? The Sports Information Directors are paid to think of those teasers.
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  #449  
Old 02-15-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, see being ranked 13th doesn't mean you're thought to be the 13th best team in the country. It just means to this point your success has put you temporarily in 13th place.
Help me understand the difference between "being ranked as the 13th best team in the country in the week 15 (meaning not final) ranking of the top teams in the country" and "your success has put your temporarily in 13th place".

Awaiting distinctions without differences. . .
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:27 PM
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The answer is not NONE. Jon Rothstein has a vote, he tweeted out that "factoid" a game or two ago prior to the game. Most probably don't know, most probably don't care, but at least 1 voter is aware, probably more than 1.

I think most, but obviously not all, voters are fairly well informed. Sure they are likely to be "behind" the story on a team or two, but I think most catch up quickly once they are informed. As much as we love our Flyers, if we were voters, we'd likely overlook another team in another part of the country as they were moving their way into the national consciousness (at least in terms of being a top 25 team). The Pollard/Pierre factoid is most whimsical. The team is 21-3, you could probably come up with a bunch of different factoids about UD being undefeated this season when something specific happens. Its a good piece of information if you wanted to ask, how the heck did they lose at LaSalle, or how did the drop a home game to Chattanooga. Missing Pierre for the later, and Pollard for the prior helps explain that to an extent, but with UD in the top 20 of a majority of the voters, and top 15 of a significant percentage, those losses are mostly forgiven.

Truth is, UD hasn't really beaten any teams since the GW win that was nationally recognized as a great win. I'm guessing some national types are beginning to recognize that a victory at SBU is better than they realized at the time, but there are not a bunch of attention grabbing wins along the path. Rhody was to an extent, but a win at St Joes will garner the attention at the time of the victory more than any other victory this season (@ Vandy would certainly challenge). Remember, Iowa was considered a upper-middle pack of the B10 at the start of the season, Mommouth was mostly about the bench, until people recognized how many games they were winning and were they were winning them, GW was at home, Bona was far off the bubble at the time of the victory.

This has been a great season with a lot of great victories to date, but none have really been huge, headline grabbing wins at the time that they happened. As noted above, the win at Vandy was the only other huge headline game. The victory over Iowa has garnered far more support since in the weeks after than it did at the time.
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
The answer is not NONE. Jon Rothstein has a vote, he tweeted out that "factoid" a game or two ago prior to the game. Most probably don't know, most probably don't care, but at least 1 voter is aware, probably more than 1.

I think most, but obviously not all, voters are fairly well informed. Sure they are likely to be "behind" the story on a team or two, but I think most catch up quickly once they are informed. As much as we love our Flyers, if we were voters, we'd likely overlook another team in another part of the country as they were moving their way into the national consciousness (at least in terms of being a top 25 team). The Pollard/Pierre factoid is most whimsical. The team is 21-3, you could probably come up with a bunch of different factoids about UD being undefeated this season when something specific happens. Its a good piece of information if you wanted to ask, how the heck did they lose at LaSalle, or how did the drop a home game to Chattanooga. Missing Pierre for the later, and Pollard for the prior helps explain that to an extent, but with UD in the top 20 of a majority of the voters, and top 15 of a significant percentage, those losses are mostly forgiven.

Truth is, UD hasn't really beaten any teams since the GW win that was nationally recognized as a great win. I'm guessing some national types are beginning to recognize that a victory at SBU is better than they realized at the time, but there are not a bunch of attention grabbing wins along the path. Rhody was to an extent, but a win at St Joes will garner the attention at the time of the victory more than any other victory this season (@ Vandy would certainly challenge). Remember, Iowa was considered a upper-middle pack of the B10 at the start of the season, Mommouth was mostly about the bench, until people recognized how many games they were winning and were they were winning them, GW was at home, Bona was far off the bubble at the time of the victory.

This has been a great season with a lot of great victories to date, but none have really been huge, headline grabbing wins at the time that they happened. As noted above, the win at Vandy was the only other huge headline game. The victory over Iowa has garnered far more support since in the weeks after than it did at the time.
Just to underscore your point, you mention Vandy as a "huge" win, but in the SEC, that's called "Tuesday". No one cares about beating Vandy, URI, etc. The only way we gain attention is continuing to beat teams so that our record is gaudy.

It's not quite like making 20 FT's in a row, but the point is making a FT isn't that hard. It's only impressive if you make a ton in a row. That's the position UD is in.

That's ok, just give us a chip and a chair.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:06 PM
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This is the 15th weekly poll, and UD is ranked 15th on the 15th.

As for my opinion, I actually think Dayton is an elite team this year. Unfortunately their schedule doesn't allow them to really show it, but it does allow for let downs. They must come out Wednesday looking to prove they are under ranked, which they are.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Help me understand the difference between "being ranked as the 13th best team in the country in the week 15 (meaning not final) ranking of the top teams in the country" and "your success has put your temporarily in 13th place".

Awaiting distinctions without differences. . .
Do you remember earlier in the season when St. Bonaventure led the A10 for the first 3 or 4 weeks? Everyone knew that was temporary. Nobody, but themselves called them the best team in the conference.

Everyone but you knows that the ratings are based on a team's success to that point. Taking into many things into account.

Do you think that the folks who voted, last week thought that we were a better team than Kentucky but this week they think Kentucky is better than us? What they think is that KY's past week's accomplishments compared to Dayton's propelled them over us in the ratings of success so far.

Let's also look at Louisville and SMU. The poll we're rated 13th never included them this whole season while the other poll did. Does that mean that everybody who got votes in the coaches poll is thought to be better than Louisville and SMU?

Let's look at the games coming up against SJ and SB. No matter what else happens in the world, we pretty much know that no matter what happens this week in Dayton's games, zero wins, 1 win or two wins, the Flyers are not going to be ranked 13th next week. 1 loss or two losses they go down in rankings, zero losses they go up in the rankings. So if we pretty much know they are going to either go up, or go down, how can we say they are the 13th best team in the country.

Let me ask you this, do you think if you asked the voters if they think some of the teams they left out of their top 25 are better than some of the teams they put in their top 25, I'd bet the majority would tell you yes. Things like "They got off to a bad start but they're getting it together now" would be their reasoning. "I expect I will move them in there within the next week or two" could be there answer.

Why I wasted my time on this I don't know. Because you're a pretty smart guy I believe that just likes to debate. I think you knew all this all along.
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Do you remember earlier in the season when St. Bonaventure led the A10 for the first 3 or 4 weeks? Everyone knew that was temporary. Nobody, but themselves called them the best team in the conference.

Everyone but you knows that the ratings are based on a team's success to that point. Taking into many things into account.

Do you think that the folks who voted, last week thought that we were a better team than Kentucky but this week they think Kentucky is better than us? What they think is that KY's past week's accomplishments compared to Dayton's propelled them over us in the ratings of success so far.

Let's also look at Louisville and SMU. The poll we're rated 13th never included them this whole season while the other poll did. Does that mean that everybody who got votes in the coaches poll is thought to be better than Louisville and SMU?

Let's look at the games coming up against SJ and SB. No matter what else happens in the world, we pretty much know that no matter what happens this week in Dayton's games, zero wins, 1 win or two wins, the Flyers are not going to be ranked 13th next week. 1 loss or two losses they go down in rankings, zero losses they go up in the rankings. So if we pretty much know they are going to either go up, or go down, how can we say they are the 13th best team in the country.

Let me ask you this, do you think if you asked the voters if they think some of the teams they left out of their top 25 are better than some of the teams they put in their top 25, I'd bet the majority would tell you yes. Things like "They got off to a bad start but they're getting it together now" would be their reasoning. "I expect I will move them in there within the next week or two" could be there answer.

Why I wasted my time on this I don't know. Because you're a pretty smart guy I believe that just likes to debate. I think you knew all this all along.
Geez Smitty

Honestly sometimes I think you like to point out all the reasons why someone should not think a positive thought is because you hardly ever had one! Just let others think positive thoughts and even outlandishly positive thoughts and move on.

I'd say Happy Birthday to you but I'm afraid you would only tell me that it isn't happy cause you are 1 year older and 1 year closer to the grave ... and although that may be true ... the thought in wishing you Happy Birthday is after all, suppose to be a happy occasion celebrating your existence and the arrival of your soul into this world!

So although I don't know when your BD is I will take this occasion to say Happy BD and lets' have others enjoy their time with the Flyers success this year!

Go Flyers be awesome!
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Geez Smitty

Honestly sometimes I think you like to point out all the reasons why someone should not think a positive thought is because you hardly ever had one! Just let others think positive thoughts and even outlandishly positive thoughts and move on.

I'd say Happy Birthday to you but I'm afraid you would only tell me that it isn't happy cause you are 1 year older and 1 year closer to the grave ... and although that may be true ... the thought in wishing you Happy Birthday is after all, suppose to be a happy occasion celebrating your existence and the arrival of your soul into this world!

So although I don't know when your BD is I will take this occasion to say Happy BD and lets' have others enjoy their time with the Flyers success this year!

Go Flyers be awesome!
Maybe you should read what took place here. He's the one who said that he finds it hard to believe we're 13th best team in the country. I said the polls don't mean we are. I NEVER SAID we're worse. We could be better, if you read my post, you'll notice I never committed either way.

Now, tell me where I'm negative in my post?
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Maybe you should read what took place here. He's the one who said that he finds it hard to believe we're 13th best team in the country. I said the polls don't mean we are. I NEVER SAID we're worse. We could be better, if you read my post, you'll notice I never committed either way.

Now, tell me where I'm negative in my post?
I'll say again Happy BD! And I'll move on ...
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
I'll say again Happy BD! And I'll move on ...
I have no clue what you're talking about. But, since you don't either, it's time to end this little conversation.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:22 PM
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I am overjoyed to see the Flyers at #13, but let's not get carried away yet.

And not to say the guy that had us NR was valid, but I do see that Sagarin still has us at #34. And that's not just some wanker's blowhard opinion, that is backed with some set of calculations.

I don't know why Sagarin has us so low. Anybody have any insight? Even Realtimerpi has us #16 in "power rankings".

The Flyers are having a great year, but even though I drink a ton of Kool Aid every year, I'm still not quite ready to call the Flyers a top ten team until we prove things in Philly.

First, flop that flappin hawk!

Get healthy KP, stay healthy everybody else - let's run the table!
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
You're still using the old logo...
I updated my logo, they did not. Somebody should them a note. Lol.


http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa.../coaches-poll/

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Old 02-15-2016, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter View Post
I don't know why Sagarin has us so low. Anybody have any insight? Even Realtimerpi has us #16 in "power rankings".
I will let others more "in the know" than me say for sure but I have always been under the impression that Sagarin takes home court and margin of victory into account when it computes the rankings.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer Al View Post
I will let others more "in the know" than me say for sure but I have always been under the impression that Sagarin takes home court and margin of victory into account when it computes the rankings.
I tried to do some research on Sagarin and from what I gathered, the first column "RATING" only takes in wins and losses and totally ignores the margin of victory. The "PREDICTOR" column takes into account the margin of victory.

I think the key reason we're not as high in Sagarin is due to how they rate our opponents because it only gives us a 2-1 record against top 50(I'm assuming that's its own top 50).

Due to the fact we only played one road game in our OOC schedule, and that the rest of the A10 comes up short in their ratings, we just don't have any big ratings changers on our schedule.

What I think makes the big difference is that RPI probably puts more weight into what the opponents of your opponents do. Not sure if any rating system takes into account head to head competition and that's probably where the voting polls differ. Let's say the Flyers are rated 20 in the AP. And they are playing at Vandy who's rated 15. The Flyers would probably zip past Vandy with a win at Vandy in the polls. Maybe not so much with Sagarin. Not sure with RPI. Probably counts for more than Sagarin just by the built in factors.

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Old 02-16-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Why I wasted my time on this I don't know. Because you're a pretty smart guy I believe that just likes to debate. I think you knew all this all along.
Just to be clear, you're the one who "corrected" me, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Do you remember earlier in the season when St. Bonaventure led the A10 for the first 3 or 4 weeks? Everyone knew that was temporary. Nobody, but themselves called them the best team in the conference.
Do you remember the preseason coaches' poll that had them 8th? That's a ranking. 4 games (2 on the road against awful teams, 2 at home) is not a ranking. It's math. You understand the difference, right? If not I can explain it further. Because of the fact that you brought it up, it kinda seems like you don't know the difference.

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Let's also look at Louisville and SMU. The poll we're rated 13th never included them this whole season while the other poll did. Does that mean that everybody who got votes in the coaches poll is thought to be better than Louisville and SMU?
What in the wide, wide world of sports are you smoking? First of all, the poll in which we're rated 13 (the coaches poll) ranked Louisville as recently as 2 weeks ago.

Second, the coaches poll simply excludes certain teams that are not eligible for college bball post-season play. So while it does not currently include SMU and UL, it also does not include the Cleveland Cavs because they're not a D1 college team eligible for post-season play. So to answer your pointless question: no, it does not mean that every team that got votes in the coaches poll is better than every other team. Only certain ones. And of those teams we're considered the 13th best team at the present time.

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Let's look at the games coming up against SJ and SB. No matter what else happens in the world, we pretty much know that no matter what happens this week in Dayton's games, zero wins, 1 win or two wins, the Flyers are not going to be ranked 13th next week. 1 loss or two losses they go down in rankings, zero losses they go up in the rankings. So if we pretty much know they are going to either go up, or go down, how can we say they are the 13th best team in the country.
Are you sure about that, Sparky? Did you check? As you're reading this, now you're thinking about it and wishing you had checked before you mouthed off. Here's week 14 vs. week 15 in the coaches poll:

9, 9. MSU. Won 1, lost 1.
15, 15. ISU. Won 1, lost 1.
16, 16. Purdue. Won 1, lost 1.
25, 25. Texas. Lost 2.

It's pretty simple really, "we're considered the 13th best team in the country based on what we've accomplished so far compared to what others have accomplished." Others might accomplish more this week. Others less. We might rise, we might fall.

When the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Let me ask you this, do you think if you asked the voters if they think some of the teams they left out of their top 25 are better than some of the teams they put in their top 25, I'd bet the majority would tell you yes. Things like "They got off to a bad start but they're getting it together now" would be their reasoning. "I expect I will move them in there within the next week or two" could be there answer.
Of course it could be. UD could win out, and I would expect that we'll be ranked in the top 5 at year end. UD could lose out, and I would expect us to miss the tournament entirely.

But that's not what a ranking is. It's a ranking of what teams have accomplished so far. So a hot team that beats Florida State, Syracuse, #16 Louisville, #9 Duke, and #8 Miami (FL) in succession might be considered one of the top 25 teams in the country based on what they've accomplished so far. What else would you base it on?? How good they were last year? If Clemson continues with that trajectory they would be a #1 seed. Then the wheels fell off, and based on what they've accomplished to THAT point in the season, not so good.

The difference between being ranked as the 13th best team in the country in the week 15 ranking of the top teams in the country means that our success up to that point (week 15) has put us temporarily in 13th place, contingent upon what we continue to accomplish relative to what others accomplish. That doesn't make much of a bumper sticker. It's much easier to just say we're the 13th best team in the country and leave all the lawyer language aside.

To the original point, I think it's a stretch to say we're the 13th best team in the country based on what we've accomplished so far. I think that ranking is higher than what we've accomplished.

So let me ask you: when / how is the best team determined? If you say the final poll, I will just answer that it's nothing more than a ranking of what teams accomplished during the scheduled season--another team might be better but had an injured player in the last 2 weeks. If you say the NCAA tournament, there are numerous examples of the "best team" not winning (#7 seed UConn beating #1 overall UK), or the "best team" not being eligible, etc. There's nothing unreasonable about looking at a point in time and saying "that's how good a team is right now compared to its peers."
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post

Are you sure about that, Sparky? Did you check? As you're reading this, now you're thinking about it and wishing you had checked before you mouthed off. Here's week 14 vs. week 15 in the coaches poll:

9, 9. MSU. Won 1, lost 1.
15, 15. ISU. Won 1, lost 1.
16, 16. Purdue. Won 1, lost 1.
25, 25. Texas. Lost 2.

"
I'd just like to comment on one point you made, the rest of the drivel I'm going to ignore.

I'll bet you 1000.00 that dayton isn't ranked 13th in the coaches poll after next weeks rankings come out.
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Old 02-17-2016, 12:47 PM
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Dayton #14 in espn power rankings.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask.../powerrankings
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I updated my logo, they did not. Somebody should them a note. Lol.


http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa.../coaches-poll/
I did send them a note last week, I guess they got my note because they updated UD's logo. I will have to check my email account to see if they replied to my email.

I am happy that they updated the logo.

Or maybe somebody from UD alerted them to the problem.


Last edited by ud2; 02-20-2016 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:58 AM
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Dear Santa,

I'm not sure I've been good enough this past week to deserve any presents this time around. If you find someone else is more deserving of them I'll completely understand. But please don't forget all the times when my big brothers and some of the rich kids got lots of presents and I got none. And remember that I've now built a new, solid reputation over the past 3 years.

I hope to find a Top 25 gift under the tree tomorrow. I will value it more since I know I almost blew it recently. But even if you have nothing for me this time you can still eat the cookies 'cause I know you'll be back soon enough.

With hope,

Rudy
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  #467  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:14 AM
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Blind resumes without regards to when wins and losses came, we may be top 25 but as of last 4 games, especially without Pollard, we are not a top 25 team. Need to right the ship and win out the regular season, with or without Pollard. See what happens after that,
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:22 AM
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Now would be a time for this team's MVP to prove it.

Cooke? Pierre? Scoochie? Pollard?

Zac?

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  #469  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:33 PM
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2/22 AP poll released

We are not ranked

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:36 PM
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Granted, #11 and #24 are not eligible for post season.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:40 PM
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Notre Dame and Texas?

Record vs Top-100 RPI

Dayton = 8-4
Notre Dame = 6-8
Texas = 10-9
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  #472  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
Notre Dame and Texas?

Record vs Top-100 RPI

Dayton = 8-4
Notre Dame = 6-8
Texas = 10-9
A10 gets no love... at all. It's great being a big fish in a little pond but this is never going to change, it's only going to get worse. Perception kills. Even if it's not fact based at all (as pointed out by SC).
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Levelbest View Post
A10 gets no love... at all. It's great being a big fish in a little pond but this is never going to change, it's only going to get worse. Perception kills. Even if it's not fact based at all (as pointed out by SC).

Relax. Are you a masochist? This team clearly cannot stand prosperity so you want them to remain ranked just to lose again??? I don't get with some of you and this "respect" BS.

Let these UD players feel snubbed and finally play with a big chip. Let's see them get pee'd off and take it out on an opponent..
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Relax. Are you a masochist? This team clearly cannot stand prosperity so you want them to remain ranked just to lose again??? I don't get with some of you and this "respect" BS.

Let these UD players feel snubbed and finally play with a big chip. Let's see them get pee'd off and take it out on an opponent..
Steve - chill. Step away from the Starbucks.

I'm talking about the league as a whole. I don't get it with the sky is falling attitude either after loosing to 2 good teams. What the poll says is based on some of the teams above us, that the folks who fill them out don't think that the competition we play is as tough as other top teams - and that is BS.

I'm also just flat out tired of the - we don't need to be ranked attitude. Lets fly under the radar - I've heard it all.

We all want this program to be a the next level. That means dealing with success.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:05 PM
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I think this will be good for us. I will say that there is no way a team from a P5 could drop 10 spots after losing to the competition we did but we still should have taken care of business and that's our own faults. We need t make a statement this week. It will be good playing unranked, we seem to do better in these situations anyways. Win 2, get back in for the final week.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:14 PM
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Whether we have a little number next to our name or not, the opponents we have left all know we are a top 3 A-10 team, tournament bound and so in essence, we still have a target on our back. If we want to become what the Team to the South That Shall Not Be Named used to be in this league, then we need to get used to being ranked and having a target on our backside.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Levelbest View Post
A10 gets no love... at all. It's great being a big fish in a little pond but this is never going to change, it's only going to get worse. Perception kills. Even if it's not fact based at all (as pointed out by SC).
Spare me the woo is the A10. You want to stay ranked? Don't lose to 2 unranked teams in the same week.
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  #478  
Old 02-22-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Spare me the woo is the A10. You want to stay ranked? Don't lose to 2 unranked teams in the same week.
Again - missed my point. Generally speaking, it doesn't matter RPI, SOS, whatever, the league is looked at the way it is - and I fear it's going to get worse as we move ahead in the new world of college sports. Do we deserve to be ranked this week, probably not but if we were in a different league, we WOULD be regardless of that.

Last edited by Levelbest; 02-22-2016 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Levelbest View Post
Again - missed my point - thanks for playing.
No - You missed my point. Show me any week, any ranked team, from any conference that lost to 2 unranked opponents in the same week. What happened to their ranking?
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
No - You missed my point. Show me any week, any ranked team, from any conference that lost to 2 unranked opponents in the same week. What happened to their ranking?
Oregon 2 weeks ago Lost to Stanford and Cal and dropped i believe from 11 to 16. Just thought I would point that out...
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1995 View Post
Oregon 2 weeks ago Lost to Stanford and Cal and dropped i believe from 11 to 16. Just thought I would point that out...
That is the only one I could find. Most often it looks like a 4 place drop for each unranked loss - this week Iowa lost to Penn St dropped from 4-8. Maryland dropped from 6-10 after losing to Minn and beating Mich.

Not that I would agree but both Oregon losses were on the road.

Edit - Mich St dropped 7 slots in the AP after losing to 16th ranked Iowa at home and at unranked Wisc.
Syracuse dropped from 14 to 27 after losing to unranked Wisc and at unranked Georgetown.
Kentucky dropped from 14 to 23 after losing at Auburn and beating Miss St.

Last edited by CE80; 02-22-2016 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
2/22 AP poll released

We are not ranked

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
We are only 24 points out of #25 in the poll. We are firmly in #26. If we take care of business like we are supposed to---like beat St Louis and Richmond on the road, and URI at home---we will be ranked when we play VCU the last game.

If we don't perform as expected, then we don't deserve the ranking. Pretty simple really.
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  #483  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:38 PM
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Thumbs down AP Poll - what bias?

Duke beat UNC on a play that should have been disallowed (travel), then lost @ Louisville . . .
and moved up five spots.
Puke.

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  #484  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Duke beat UNC on a play that should have been disallowed (travel), then lost @ Louisville . . .
and moved up five spots.
Puke.

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I am pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about. Duke won the game with 2 free throws with like almost a minute to go. Maybe you should do some research before you just make stupid claims. There was no travel in the UNC-Duke game. Maybe you should watch the link below.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...meId=400839773
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Duke beat UNC on a play that should have been disallowed (travel), then lost @ Louisville . . .
and moved up five spots.
Puke.

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It was against Va and if you watch that replay a thousand times, it is impossible to declare with no reservations that the ball did not leave his hand before his foot hit the floor. You like most are just a Duke hater.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer View Post
It was against Va and if you watch that replay a thousand times, it is impossible to declare with no reservations that the ball did not leave his hand before his foot hit the floor. You like most are just a Duke hater.
No doubt he traveled. It just was not called.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-duke-virginia
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:15 PM
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Let's win two this week. Poll I'm most concerned about Comes out Sunday, March 13 at 6 PM on CBS. Let's go!
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanatic View Post
I am pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about. Duke won the game with 2 free throws with like almost a minute to go. Maybe you should do some research before you just make stupid claims. There was no travel in the UNC-Duke game. Maybe you should watch the link below.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...meId=400839773

Many apologies, wrong game - my bad.

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Old 02-22-2016, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
No doubt he traveled. It just was not called.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...-duke-virginia
No doubt he was fouled. Just not called. Refs call what they see and don't have access to slow motion replay to judge possible traveling. I still say not clear from that picture. To each their own.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer View Post
. . . You like most are just a Duke hater.

Not really a hater - more of a strong disliker.
There are not many 'perennial' top 25 programs I'm a fan of - too much deference to the name on the jersey.
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas - they dominate an uneven playing field until March, when they have to leave home (eventually) and play the little guys they've been dodging all year.
Just my 2 cents

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Old 02-23-2016, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer View Post
No doubt he was fouled. Just not called. Refs call what they see and don't have access to slow motion replay to judge possible traveling. I still say not clear from that picture. To each their own.
Even though a lot of refs treat it as such, traveling is not really a judgment call. He either did or he didn't. He definitely is still holding the ball while his foot is on the ground. See picture.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Not really a hater - more of a strong disliker.
There are not many 'perennial' top 25 programs I'm a fan of - too much deference to the name on the jersey.
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas - they dominate an uneven playing field until March, when they have to leave home (eventually) and play the little guys they've been dodging all year.
Just my 2 cents
I always figured you were a U of Vermont fan.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Even though a lot of refs treat it as such, traveling is not really a judgment call. He either did or he didn't. He definitely is still holding the ball while his foot is on the ground. See picture.
A ref (in any sport) cannot call what he does not see. The only POV that matters on calls is the refs. Being late game, maybe once he went up more focus was on the hand and whether the shot was clear of the hand before the buzzer. Maybe a ref got screened by the player fouling him, etc. I will disagree with you on the definitive nature of the photo. And if it was definitive by human sight or only because a video could be slowed to frame by frame and a picture taken? Not a very fair expectation to put on the refs. What you will not answer (as most Duke haters) is if you thought he was fouled.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:41 PM
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I'll answer that. Let's say he was fouled. Then the refs are even more incompetent because they missed TWO calls, the travel AND the foul.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:01 PM
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Doesn't matter if he was fouled or not, because most refs are going to swallow the whistle in that situation, so even if he lost an eye he's not getting that call.

Well, MAYBE then.

Convenient for you to label ANYONE with an alternate opinion a "Duke-hater". That's a sign of well-reasoned debate.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Doesn't matter if he was fouled or not, because most refs are going to swallow the whistle in that situation, so even if he lost an eye he's not getting that call.
So the refs were expected to ignore the foul which was easily detectable at real speed but the supposed travel which could only be detected by frame by frame replay they should have gotten? Now I understand. And what a fair person you are, given that you support Duke and are still willing to admit that the obviously indetectable at normal speed possible travel should have been call. I am glad that you're like/dislike has nothing to do with your determining it was indisputably a travel and not a foul.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:45 PM
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I watched the game and thought it was a travel at normal speed prior to replays. So not as undetectable as one thinks.

But also not a call likely to be made given the situation.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:56 PM
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And why would a "Duke hater" be a bad thing to be? We're all UD fans here, right? Coach K is one of the most arrogant figures in college basketball, right? I'm missing the downside.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
I watched the game and thought it was a travel at normal speed prior to replays. So not as undetectable as one thinks.
Be careful patting yourself on the back for making such a call from the comfy confines of your couch while watching the action on a 55" HD TV.

Now if you made that immediate call while watching it from the standpoint the official...8-10 feet from the action, I'd give you some credit...but you weren't.

In that situation the center ref is watching the shooter, his shooting arm, the ball and the defender. The trail official is watching the shot and off the ball contact, which isn't easy with only 2 eyes...and the lead official is watching for contact under the basket. In all honesty, none of the officials were watching his feet in that situation, nor would I expect them too. As for the foul on the shot, you'd have a hard time calling that foul when the shooter did all he could to avoid contact. You're more likely to get a foul called if you're aggressively attacking the basket. I tell my son and coaches this all the time...'you aren't going to get a foul if you're afraid of contact, so don't expect a call that you're avoiding.'

Based on training, experience, meetings, case book, manual and royal common sense, that's my 2-cents.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer View Post
A ref (in any sport) cannot call what he does not see. The only POV that matters on calls is the refs. Being late game, maybe once he went up more focus was on the hand and whether the shot was clear of the hand before the buzzer. Maybe a ref got screened by the player fouling him, etc. I will disagree with you on the definitive nature of the photo. And if it was definitive by human sight or only because a video could be slowed to frame by frame and a picture taken? Not a very fair expectation to put on the refs. What you will not answer (as most Duke haters) is if you thought he was fouled.
Individual ref's seem to have their own interpretation of the rules, thus causing all the consternation. The rules need to be more rigidly enforced, not rationalized so that anyone can call anything on just about every possession.
Us fans on the other hand, pretty much see what we want to see, and don't see what we don't want to see... A sorry situation!
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