UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > STEVEN E. YUHAS MEMORIAL LOUNGE > Off-Topic Gibberish

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:43 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
Plummeting in the rankings

US News and World Report 2018 college rankings just came out and UD is at 124... a couple of years ago we were at 101 and on the cusp of breaking the top 100.

I know this ranking is FAR from perfect and I can't speak to the validity of how they get the rankings that they do, but IT IS one of the first things that students and parents look at when they are looking at schools to apply to. However you cut it, dropping 23 spots in 5ish years is not good for our image. Despite the numerous advancements we've made in that time (GE, Emerson, etc etc) we are failing to trend in the right direction

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...of-dayton-3127
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Flyer14 For This Totally Excellent Post:
UACFlyer (09-12-2017)
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:19 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
It's a bit complicated...

....and I don't think UD knows how to play the game...or doesn't care. It should, because, as pointed out, students (everyone) pays attention to the rankings.

In the days we were ~ 100 the Catholic schools ahead of us were the "big three"....ND, Georgetown and BC, which were way, way ahead. Then there were but three peers with higher rankings: Fordham, Marquette and SLU,....all within reach. Today there are several other Catholic schools that have passed UD.

We don't really score well in any area compared to peers. But there is one area that is particularly important for which UD scores very poorly, i.e., "faculty resources". UD relies unusually heavily on adjunct faculty, i.e., profs who are not "full time" employees and for whom teaching is not their main occupation. Our proximity to WPAFB partially explains that....there are good people available from the AF Research Lab, for example. Indeed, UD has often said that some of its strongest programs rely heavily on adjunct faculty. Nonetheless, reliance on part timers makes our faculty look weak.

This is just one area that impacts our ranking; but it's an important one. Whatever, Curran didn't seem to be bothered by our slippage....I hope Spina pays more attention to it.

Being a Philly guy, something I just noticed is that Villanova is classified in the "national" category for only the second year.....previously in a "regional" category...and VU comes in at #46 nationally. That's #46! Think about that for a moment. We consider Villanova a peer academically and athletically. I can assure you that VU does not consider UD to be one of its "peers".

Last edited by UACFlyer; 09-12-2017 at 11:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (09-12-2017)
  #3  
Old 09-12-2017, 11:47 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
We don't really score well in any area compared to peers. But there is one area that is particularly important for which UD scores very poorly, i.e., "faculty resources". UD relies unusually heavily on adjunct faculty, i.e., profs who are not "full time" employees and for whom teaching is not their main occupation. Our proximity to WPAFB partially explains that....there are good people available from the AF Research Lab, for example. Indeed, UD has often said that some of its strongest programs rely heavily on adjunct faculty. Nonetheless, reliance on part timers makes our faculty look weak.
Very good points. As you said UD relies upon WPAFB researchers to teach some of their classes, and I wonder how big of an impact that has our on engineering program, arguably UD's strongest program, being ranked 137(!). I really have a hard time believing that.

While we obviously know that UD is far above that level on the national scale, the average Joe on the street looking at those rankings will not. I don't know what the answer is, but something needs to be tweaked before we continue tumbling
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Flyer14 For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (09-13-2017), UACFlyer (09-13-2017)
  #4  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:10 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Peer assessment

The opinion others (counselors, etc.) have of a school weighs very heavily....if I recall it is the number one factor, about 25%. And the fact is UD always receives a low score.

Why? One reason is this. Everyone knows that the best HS students choose the best schools...or what they believe to be the best schools. That means the best schools have the highest percentage of freshmen who ranked in the top 10% of their HS classes. At the top Catholic colleges, for example, 80-90% of the freshmen ranked in the top 10%. UD's figure is far less than that.

The fact is, while UD has excellent facilities and has no trouble filling its freshmen class.....UD is not very selective when it comes to HS academic rankings. The test scores and class rank of UD's incoming freshmen have not improved in many years....we are not becoming more selective when it cones to academics. That has a significant influence on perception....i.e.., on peer assessment.

To improve what others think of us we will have to set a trend of steadily increasing SAT/ACT scores and HS class rank. We have not been doing that. The academic creds of UD's incoming freshmen have not been increasing to a significant degree over the last decade....as tables in UD's annual "Fact" report show.

If the UD administration has any interest in reversing the disturbing US News trend it will need to raise average freshmen SAT scores by about 100 points to the 1225-1250 range with about 30-40% in the top 10% of their class. Addressing the faculty resource issue should also be a priority. Over reliance on part-time faculty is not a good thing, in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:28 AM
ClaytonFlyerFan's Avatar
ClaytonFlyerFan ClaytonFlyerFan is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 3,956
Thanked 4,111 Times in 1,616 Posts
ClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
.

Why? One reason is this. Everyone knows that the best HS students choose the best schools...or what they believe to be the best schools. That means the best schools have the highest percentage of freshmen who ranked in the top 10% of their HS classes. At the top Catholic colleges, for example, 80-90% of the freshmen ranked in the top 10%. UD's figure is far less than that.

.
I can tell you that UD is currently quite aggressive in going after the top 10% in their HS class as I have a HS senior now. Almost daily phone calls or emails, borderline pushy at this point to be honest.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:32 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
The problem is obvious: UD is not DIVERSE enough.

Sarcasm aside, Administrative priorities are partially to blame for the drop. To solve this issue, may I suggest another prayer room...or maybe a pyramid shaped dorm?
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
ud69 (09-13-2017)
  #7  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:22 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
I think a lot of you have unrealistic expectations. UD is being ranked with true big time national universities and it is not a big time national university and I dare say - never will be. Just about all state universities in every state - particularly Ohio - have stepped up their game. Given their typically lower tuition, they are going to get a good share of the smarter students. Villanova is a great school that sits in the middle of a very populated area. It is going to get it's share of smart students. Dayton, Ohio is not exactly in the most populated region and given Ohio's university system, UD has a tough time competing with those school especially given the cost of tuition.

I've been on this board long enough to know that there are not that many geniuses that went to UD. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.

UD is a great school for many kids. Ask Dwayne Cohill. Not too small, not too big. Not many schools fit into that category.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (09-13-2017), rollo (09-13-2017)
  #8  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:56 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
C'mon....

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I think a lot of you have unrealistic expectations. UD is being ranked with true big time national universities and it is not a big time national university and I dare say - never will be. Just about all state universities in every state - particularly Ohio - have stepped up their game. Given their typically lower tuition, they are going to get a good share of the smarter students. Villanova is a great school that sits in the middle of a very populated area. It is going to get it's share of smart students. Dayton, Ohio is not exactly in the most populated region and given Ohio's university system, UD has a tough time competing with those school especially given the cost of tuition.

I've been on this board long enough to know that there are not that many geniuses that went to UD. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.

UD is a great school for many kids. Ask Dwayne Cohill. Not too small, not too big. Not many schools fit into that category.
Are you saying that Catholic schools like Marquette, St. Louis, Loyola, San Diego, Seton Hall....all well above UD in the national rankings....have some sort of advantage over UD re attracting top students? You know better. These schools are legitimate UD peers.....ND, BC, Georgetown, Villanova are not.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:04 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Are you saying that Catholic schools like Marquette, St. Louis, Loyola, San Diego, Seton Hall....all well above UD in the national rankings....have some sort of advantage over UD re attracting top students? You know better. These schools are legitimate UD peers.....ND, BC, Georgetown, Villanova are not.
It is no different than basketball. Some have inherent advantages (like location) and some have had a head start from before these rankings have taken on a greater importance. It would take a whole lot of money to move the needle for UD and you know a little about alumni giving at UD.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:28 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Yeah, but...

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
It is no different than basketball. Some have inherent advantages (like location) and some have had a head start from before these rankings have taken on a greater importance. It would take a whole lot of money to move the needle for UD and you know a little about alumni giving at UD.
Everything you are saying was true when UD was flirting at a ranking of 100 and the peer schools I listed were ranked well below us. The peer Catholics that have passed us have no more "inherent" advantages today than they did ten or twenty years ago.

The UD administration is not working this issue nearly hard enough. It matters!
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (09-13-2017)
  #11  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:11 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Everything you are saying was true when UD was flirting at a ranking of 100 and the peer schools I listed were ranked well below us. The peer Catholics that have passed us have no more "inherent" advantages today than they did ten or twenty years ago.

The UD administration is not working this issue nearly hard enough. It matters!
UD's numeral ranking changed - why? Did UD do something negative that pushed it down? Did the others do something that raised them? Or was it the ranking criteria that changed (because it did) that moved everybody without them doing anything different? Do we really know how they keeps score? What is the numerical difference in the calculated score in being number 100 or 124?

Why do rankings matter? (Rhetorical to a degree) UD just brought in the largest class it has ever had. Will the change in rankings negatively affect enrollment? To me, enrollment is what is important. I don't need to brag that my alma mater is a top 100 school. UD just needs to keep doing what is necessary to keep the new kids coming there. I think it is debatable how important those ranking really are.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:13 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Flyer14 View Post
Very good points. As you said UD relies upon WPAFB researchers to teach some of their classes, and I wonder how big of an impact that has our on engineering program, arguably UD's strongest program, being ranked 137(!). I really have a hard time believing that.

While we obviously know that UD is far above that level on the national scale, the average Joe on the street looking at those rankings will not. I don't know what the answer is, but something needs to be tweaked before we continue tumbling
According to the DDN, the UD Engineering Dept was rated equal with Wright State's Engineering Program. In the real world, the two departments couldn't be further apart so I'd love to see the model they used to compare them. It certainly wasn't based on quality, experience and education.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:16 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post

Why do rankings matter? (Rhetorical to a degree) UD just brought in the largest class it has ever had. Will the change in rankings negatively affect enrollment? To me, enrollment is what is important. I don't need to brag that my alma mater is a top 100 school. UD just needs to keep doing what is necessary to keep the new kids coming there. I think it is debatable how important those ranking really are.
If your metric of success is putting butts in classroom seats we do have a problem. What inherent advantage does South Bend, Indiana have over Dayton? Why are they entitled to be an elite institution but we aren't? Are we ever going to be a Notre Dame? No. Should we fight like hell to be one nonetheless and not settle for mediocrity? Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:23 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
According to the DDN, the UD Engineering Dept was rated equal with Wright State's Engineering Program. In the real world, the two departments couldn't be further apart so I'd love to see the model they used to compare them. It certainly wasn't based on quality, experience and education.
Tell me more. Who do you think should be rated higher? Either way it tells you the measuring tool is not necessarily one that should be relied upon.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:24 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Flyer14 View Post
If your metric of success is putting butts in classroom seats we do have a problem. What inherent advantage does South Bend, Indiana have over Dayton? Why are they entitled to be an elite institution but we aren't? Are we ever going to be a Notre Dame? No. Should we fight like hell to be one nonetheless and not settle for mediocrity? Yes.
What is the problem with the butts being put into the seats?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:33 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
What is the problem with the butts being put into the seats?
There's nothing wrong with butts in seats but using that as your benchmark for success and quality is woefully inadequate. We want intelligent butts, not just any butts.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:37 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
The point....

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Tell me more. Who do you think should be rated higher? Either way it tells you the measuring tool is not necessarily one that should be relied upon.
It is important to understand the US News rating criteria.....and to emphasize working to improve in areas where we score low. Why? Because that's what other schools that we wish to be compared with are doing...and because it impacts reputation. It matters what others think of you....you know that. Impressions matter.

As for UD's current freshmen class being the largest in history, that suggests to me that we could tighten up a bit on offering admission. Our goal is not to have the largest class in history each year. As freshmen class size grows it puts pressure on all aspects of facilities. Quite possibly we'd be better off with a few hundred fewer freshmen if we tightened up academic requirements. I'm not talking about anything radical. What I'm looking for is a gradual but significant increase in SAT/ACT scores and class rank over a decade, let's say. If average SAT score is now about 1125......having as a goal bumping that up to 1200 over a decade is hardly radical.....but it's that sort of gradual improvement that moves a school up the US News ladder. We can do this!
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (09-13-2017)
  #18  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:40 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Tell me more. Who do you think should be rated higher? Either way it tells you the measuring tool is not necessarily one that should be relied upon.
Based on Acceptance criteria, ACT scores, 5-year graduation rates (WSU graduates only 33% of Engineering students) Research, post-graduation employment salary, grad school, etc... there is no way we're equals. None. And if they are, then changes need to be made across the Board.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:41 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Flyer14 View Post
There's nothing wrong with butts in seats but using that as your benchmark for success and quality is woefully inadequate. We want intelligent butts, not just any butts.
Did you go to UD? If so, why did you settle on going to a mediocre school instead of one ranked higher?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:50 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
It is important to understand the US News rating criteria.....and to emphasize working to improve in areas where we score low. Why? Because that's what other schools that we wish to be compared with are doing...and because it impacts reputation. It matters what others think of you....you know that. Impressions matter.

As for UD's current freshmen class being the largest in history, that suggests to me that we could tighten up a bit on offering admission. Our goal is not to have the largest class in history each year. As freshmen class size grows it puts pressure on all aspects of facilities. Quite possibly we'd be better off with a few hundred fewer freshmen if we tightened up academic requirements. I'm not talking about anything radical. What I'm looking for is a gradual but significant increase in SAT/ACT scores and class rank over a decade, let's say. If average SAT score is now about 1125......having as a goal bumping that up to 1200 over a decade is hardly radical.....but it's that sort of gradual improvement that moves a school up the US News ladder. We can do this!
So how do you replace the revenue from the few hundred fewer students?

I guess we measure success differently. I'd rather own a restaurant that makes money than one that loses money but has a 3 star Michelin rating.

Ok, I know I am being a bit (or more than a bit of) a d!ck here but people get caught up in these rankings when they really don't completely understand them Many of us make fun of the millennials but it is all the millennial's parents that are caught up in the rankings. Going to maybe 2 dozen schools will provide one with a significant advantage in starting out. There are many great successes in those that attended UD and other similar schools.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:02 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Did you go to UD? If so, why did you settle on going to a mediocre school instead of one ranked higher?
It was ranked 23 spots higher when I attended.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:13 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Flyer14 View Post
It was ranked 23 spots higher when I attended.
What was the ranking when you made your decision to attend UD?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:33 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Consider the Flyers

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
So how do you replace the revenue from the few hundred fewer students?

I guess we measure success differently. I'd rather own a restaurant that makes money than one that loses money but has a 3 star Michelin rating.

Ok, I know I am being a bit (or more than a bit of) a d!ck here but people get caught up in these rankings when they really don't completely understand them Many of us make fun of the millennials but it is all the millennial's parents that are caught up in the rankings. Going to maybe 2 dozen schools will provide one with a significant advantage in starting out. There are many great successes in those that attended UD and other similar schools.
`80,...there are over 300 Div 1 BB programs. Where do you want to see the Flyers place consistently? Top 200? Top 150? Top 100? Would any of those spots satisfy you?

I'm guessing that anything less than Top 50 consistently would be entirely unsatisfactory to you. Top 10 consistently is unrealistic...probably Top 20 is as well. But we all know what's going to keep the Faithful and Priders happy and justify the planned ~$70 million Arena renovation. I think a reasonably similar concern should be placed on where UD ranks academically. And if a recent entry in the US News "national" category, Villanova, can manage its affairs so as to land a #46 spot, I am certainly not satisfied with UD at #124. We belong in the Top 100 at a minimum and I will not be satisfied until/unless Spina makes that happen.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:47 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
It's difficult to justify raising tuition to over $60k/year if your educational anchors aren't improving. For a couple of years the Business School has been in a downward spiral and MY royal UD school of Engineering may be in a similar direction. I say 'may be' simply because I find it hard to believe...

This issue shouldn't be taken lightly. Business and Engineering are to UD's educational reputation as Men's Basketball is to Athletics'.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
shocka43 (09-13-2017)
  #25  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:18 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Please elaborate,....

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It's difficult to justify raising tuition to over $60k/year if your educational anchors aren't improving. For a couple of years the Business School has been in a downward spiral and MY royal UD school of Engineering may be in a similar direction. I say 'may be' simply because I find it hard to believe...

This issue shouldn't be taken lightly. Business and Engineering are to UD's educational reputation as Men's Basketball is to Athletics'.
Please expand on your comments re the down trend of Bus and Engr.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:50 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Please expand on your comments re the down trend of Bus and Engr.
I can't explain away the engineering school's ranking as it makes no sense when you consider all the success and connections they have across the region. The Business School has been plagued with issues regarding a permanent Dean...although one was appointed in June, they still have issues to work out. If I can find the email I received last Spring I'll post its main content but it may have been permanently bleached by Hillary, my royal secretary.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:35 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
`80,...there are over 300 Div 1 BB programs. Where do you want to see the Flyers place consistently? Top 200? Top 150? Top 100? Would any of those spots satisfy you?

I'm guessing that anything less than Top 50 consistently would be entirely unsatisfactory to you. Top 10 consistently is unrealistic...probably Top 20 is as well. But we all know what's going to keep the Faithful and Priders happy and justify the planned ~$70 million Arena renovation. I think a reasonably similar concern should be placed on where UD ranks academically. And if a recent entry in the US News "national" category, Villanova, can manage its affairs so as to land a #46 spot, I am certainly not satisfied with UD at #124. We belong in the Top 100 at a minimum and I will not be satisfied until/unless Spina makes that happen.
BBall games are decided by W's and L's - not arbitrary statistics. They don't decide one year to count the average height of the team as 10% of your score for a game and then next year change it to weight.

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It's difficult to justify raising tuition to over $60k/year if your educational anchors aren't improving. For a couple of years the Business School has been in a downward spiral and MY royal UD school of Engineering may be in a similar direction. I say 'may be' simply because I find it hard to believe...

This issue shouldn't be taken lightly. Business and Engineering are to UD's educational reputation as Men's Basketball is to Athletics'.
If there are real issues with the quality of the education - I am concerned. If the reason for the ranking change is due to changing criteria or criteria that doesn't truly reflect the quality of the education, I am not concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:17 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
Thanks: 289
Thanked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Flyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the roughFlyer14 is a jewel in the rough
I guess I don't understand why you're so antagonistic to this concept. Nobody likes these rankings, nobody thinks they're perfect, but the reality is that many parents and potential students look to them as a strong guide point to a general sense of program strength and falling 23 points is not in our best interest.

I'm in medical school and at the end of your second year you take Step 1 (AKA the boards). You can only take it once and what you get on it basically decides what you can specialize in, where you can get a residency, and essentially the next 40 years of your life. Is basing all of that on a single test taken on a single day that you can only take once the perfect system? No. Is it a reality? Yes. Is its a game to be played and those that play it well can go where they want and do what they want? Absolutely.

If UD chooses not the play the game that is their prerogative but they will have to live the consequences of opting out of something that everyone else is chasing.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Flyer14 For This Totally Excellent Post:
UACFlyer (09-13-2017)
  #29  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:27 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
The higher tuition rises, the more important UD's/every college's ranking becomes.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:54 PM
shocka43's Avatar
shocka43 shocka43 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 6,418
Thanks: 3,502
Thanked 5,865 Times in 2,530 Posts
shocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond repute
I don't know the numbers...

But I would say that UD isn't having a problem filling classrooms...they are accepting kids with good GPA's...they are able to increase tuition and people still pay it...

I would say that until these numbers are impacted, it may appear that they aren't all too concerned with better ratings as it wouldn't impact the above data anyway.

Spitballing here without data...but the point is the same...why worry about it if it doesn't impact the bottom line?
__________________
The lion doesn't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:25 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Really?

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I don't know the numbers...

But I would say that UD isn't having a problem filling classrooms...they are accepting kids with good GPA's...they are able to increase tuition and people still pay it...

I would say that until these numbers are impacted, it may appear that they aren't all too concerned with better ratings as it wouldn't impact the above data anyway.

Spitballing here without data...but the point is the same...why worry about it if it doesn't impact the bottom line?
This really doesn't sound like you shocka.

Suppose a cop is in a police union....or it could be a teacher in a teacher's union....or a civil service employee....there are other examples of occupations where it's nearly impossible to get rid of an employee for poor performance. The "good" cops, teachers and civil servants know that. They know that their pay and benefits will be little affected if at all if they're lax on the job or even incompetent. That is, their "bottom line" is essentially unaffected by their competence or the quality of their work or their level of effort. So why bother, why make a real effort to be your very best when your "bottom line" isn't impacted?

Isn't that what you're saying, essentially, about UD? Why should UD care about being its very best, constantly improving, so long as they fill the seats and the bottom line looks good?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:49 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...nkings/279103/
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (09-13-2017), cralford (09-13-2017)
  #33  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:04 AM
Chris R's Avatar
Chris R Chris R is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 10,200
Thanks: 1,019
Thanked 10,263 Times in 3,108 Posts
Chris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond reputeChris R has a reputation beyond repute
I graduated in '92 from the second largest HS in Ohio. Probably 97% went on to college. I didnt know all of the graduates in my class, but I knew a lot and these are competitive students. I never spent 1 second considering these rankings and I didnt know a single other student that did either. I very seriously doubt much has changed.

These rankings matter to US News and they matter to the colleges. But for 95% of the students out there, they couldn't care less. Unless you are in Pre-Med or Law, nobody chooses a school based on any of this rather inexact, subjective, pseudo science.

Kids pick schools based on interest of study, geography, how clean the dorms are, how nice the campus food is, now friendly the students are, campus aesthetics, local things to do, and perhaps most important -- price. Almost none of this stuff is ever going to show up on a rankings system like this and even if it did it would be entirely unscientific and subjective. You cant quantify comfort, fit, emotional attraction, etc.

Its just like the recruiting rankings. Ask a recruiting analyst to quantify the skills/talent/potential difference between a kid he ranks #118 and a kid he ranks #121. They can't. The hairs are too thin.

Other than 10-15 schools in the country, the rest are more or less going to provide a top notch education for 99% of the student population. College is about 5% where you go and 95% what you put into wherever you decide to go. You get out of college what you put into it. You can get a worse education at Harvard by not applying yourself than crushing it at a school like Dayton. Yet if you want to mail it in at Dayton, you can get a far better education at Wittenberg if you're serious about your academics.

These rankings are there to sell magazines and for institutions to secure hollow pointless victories to create artificial self esteem. Nothing to see here.
__________________

C. M. Rieman | Publisher | 937.361.4630 | Get the latest here:

Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Chris R For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (09-14-2017)
  #34  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:20 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
...but I knew a lot and these are competitive students. I never spent 1 second considering these rankings and I didnt know a single other student that did either. I very seriously doubt much has changed.
The HS you attended sends more students to Sinclair CC than any other HS...so how seriously did you consider Sinclair when making a college choice? Or Wright State. Or Central State?

I bet your answer is 'none' and I bet the reason it's 'none' is because - in the back of your mind - you perceived that they aren't ranked high enough for you and that a degree from XXX CC or XXX U is/was somehow inferior to the UD (or OSU, Miami, etc...) when, in fact, it can be proven to be equal and/or better in many areas.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of HS grads across Montgomery County who could go to Sinclair and get a 2-year degree for $0. So why do so many of Sinclair's scholarships go unused? Because the best and brightest across the Miami Valley don't want to go to Sinclair (or WSU, etc...) simply because they think it's beneath them.

So real or perceived, ranking does matter regardless of whether you realize it or not.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair

Last edited by rollo; 09-14-2017 at 08:25 AM..
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (09-14-2017), UACFlyer (09-14-2017)
  #35  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:24 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The higher tuition rises, the more important UD's/every college's ranking becomes.
Jobs. Jobs. Jobs.

Parents and students care less about rankings and more about whether the student is going to be able get a job once they graduate.

I posted a link to one article out there on the meaningless of the rankings. There are many more out there that back up Chris R's comments. Sure, to the kid considering Princeton, Harvard or Yale, the ranking may make a difference and to the member measuring boys at the country club they matter but to the vast majority of students they don't matter. University's would be better off putting their money and energy into the career advancement office rather than chasing bs ranking criteria.

Jobs - they want jobs.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:33 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
I've been telling my kids since birth that where they go to college is less of a concern to me than what they study. As the million-heirs have heard over and over, the Social Work major from Harvard will make less than the engineer from Wright State.

The Royal 3 M's are: Math, Money and Medicine. Study one of them and you'll be set for life.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (09-14-2017), ClaytonFlyerFan (09-14-2017), cralford (09-14-2017)
  #37  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:53 AM
ClaytonFlyerFan's Avatar
ClaytonFlyerFan ClaytonFlyerFan is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 3,956
Thanked 4,111 Times in 1,616 Posts
ClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of HS grads across Montgomery County who could go to Sinclair and get a 2-year degree for $0. So why do so many of Sinclair's scholarships go unused? Because the best and brightest across the Miami Valley don't want to go to Sinclair (or WSU, etc...) simply because they think it's beneath them.

.

"Your too smart to consider starting at Sinclair"- HS Guidance counselor to my daughter, August 2017.

Um, excuse me, are you paying the bills Mrs. Guidance counselor?????????

Sinclair has great options, where they work with all local 4 year schools including UD to transfer 100% of credits earned, at a fraction of the cost!
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to ClaytonFlyerFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (09-14-2017), cj (09-14-2017), rollo (09-14-2017)
  #38  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:16 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
"Your too smart to consider starting at Sinclair"- HS Guidance counselor to my daughter, August 2017.

Um, excuse me, are you paying the bills Mrs. Guidance counselor?????????

Sinclair has great options, where they work with all local 4 year schools including UD to transfer 100% of credits earned, at a fraction of the cost!
This 10x over.

It drives me crazy when I hear the complaints about the how unaffordable higher education is and how so much help is needed. In Ohio one can go to a CC for 2 years. Live at home. Even work a little. Then go to one of the 4 year schools. Save a ton. Can't get into the prestigious Ohio State University as a freshman? Go to one of the auxiliary campuses, CC or another 4 year school and then transfer. Save a ton of money.

Do you realize that you can go to Ohio State Mansfield for 2 years and transfer with a GPA of 2.0 into the main campus? For you ranking lovers, OSU is the 54th national university. Tell me how the thousands of transfers with their lower ACT scores that are admitted each year are accounted for in the ranking criteria. I couldn't find anything that says they are and I suspect they aren't. Maybe it is a way for OSU to keep their ranking high? I would bet the vast majority aren't transferring to the OSU main campus because of the rankings. It's because they went there on a weekend and had a really good time. I'm not knocking OSU. Both of my girls went there, graduated and have good jobs. Lots to like about OSU. As everyone that is familiar with the inner workings of UD can tell, I can tell anecdotal stories about OSU that don't make it out to be that much better than UD.

I'd like to say this is my last post on this thread but I know myself better.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (09-14-2017)
  #39  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:23 AM
ClaytonFlyerFan's Avatar
ClaytonFlyerFan ClaytonFlyerFan is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,549
Thanks: 3,956
Thanked 4,111 Times in 1,616 Posts
ClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeClaytonFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
This 10x over.

It drives me crazy when I hear the complaints about the how unaffordable higher education is and how so much help is needed. In Ohio one can go to a CC for 2 years. Live at home. Even work a little. Then go to one of the 4 year schools. Save a ton. Can't get into the prestigious Ohio State University as a freshman? Go to one of the auxiliary campuses, CC or another 4 year school and then transfer. Save a ton of money.

Do you realize that you can go to Ohio State Mansfield for 2 years and transfer with a GPA of 2.0 into the main campus? For you ranking lovers, OSU is the 54th national university. Tell me how the thousands of transfers with their lower ACT scores that are admitted each year are accounted for in the ranking criteria. I couldn't find anything that says they are and I suspect they aren't. Maybe it is a way for OSU to keep their ranking high? I would bet the vast majority aren't transferring to the OSU main campus because of the rankings. It's because they went there on a weekend and had a really good time. I'm not knocking OSU. Both of my girls went there, graduated and have good jobs. Lots to like about OSU. As everyone that is familiar with the inner workings of UD can tell, I can tell anecdotal stories about OSU that don't make it out to be that much better than UD.

I'd like to say this is my last post on this thread but I know myself better.
You are 100% spot on about OSU, and transferring in. When we visited OSU a couple months ago, was strictly by invite only for honor students, and even with the group we were with, we almost felt as if they were encouraging kids to start at one of the other OSU branches, then come to Columbus after a year or two. Last year, 52,000 freshmen applied to OSU, yet only 7,000 were admitted. With over 60,000 students on campus, the math does not add up without realizing that over half of each graduating class transferred in at some point after their freshman year.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:55 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
FYI...if you attend any community college in Ohio, all you need to transfer to tOSU is 30 credit hours and a 2.5 GPA. If you earn both, you have 100% acceptance to their main campus. You don't need the 2 year degree...just 30 credits and a 2.5.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (09-14-2017)
  #41  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:28 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
All true, but,...

The opinions expressed over the last half dozen posts all make sense. Nonetheless, it does not follow that "rankings don't matter" and/or that people don't pay attention to them.

The three factors that carry the most weight in the U.S. News rankings are "peer assessment" by guidance counselors et al; retention and graduation rate; and faculty resources. Combined they account for about 65% of a school's total USN score.

It's my impression that UD does quite well in the retention/graduation area. And I know we score poorly in the faculty resource area and very poorly in the peer assessment category.

Faculty resources matter in an educational system, whether it's elementary school or college. People know that. In my opinion, UD should work that issue hard.

But, the heaviest USN weighting comes from "peer assessment"...what others think of us. Puuuuuuleeze, Priders, don't tell me that it doesn't matter what others think of UD. It matters to all of us in very important ways. If shocka finds out that his peers think he is a well-below-average cop I know that would concern him greatly....likewise for the doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs among us. Even if shocka was certain that his peers felt that way about him but their impression was dead wrong he'd want to understand the basis of the false impression and correct it. And, it goes without saying that if he discovered areas where improvement was needed he'd work on them.

Bottom line: Everyone cares what people think of them and in most cases there are valid reasons for their opinions. UD is no exception. It does matter that our peers have a low impression of us....and it's incumbent upon UD to understand this issue, which no doubt has some validity, and to work to address shortcomings.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 09-14-2017 at 11:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:11 PM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BeTheManPlex
Posts: 11,417
Thanks: 11,438
Thanked 9,616 Times in 4,404 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Interesting perspective UAC and it plays into exactly what I intimated above in my comments about the UD Business School. I got into a discussion a with a Business School professor bout where my senior son was looking to go next year and what he would study. His recommendation to me was that if he was interested in business (at the time my son was considering Accounting, Finance or Economics) that he shouldn't go to UD because of the issues they were having in the Dept! I was shocked. As a 15+ year professor at UD and Sinclair, I would never, ever tell a prospective parent or student NOT to look at my school or department, especially if that student was over-qualified for acceptance. With that in mind, my son made it clear early on that UD was too close to home for consideration so this conversation never got relayed to him or the queen. But if UD somehow enters the equation, it will be revisited.

FWIW, I think UD's Business School and Entrepreneur program are top notch and I know of nobody outside of the Dept that thinks differently. Nor would I get in the way of my son/daughter attending UD and studying Business. Regardless of what 1 person inside the Department says, I think highly of the program, which is all they (kids) need to know.
__________________
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man, and I'm sayin' WOOOOOOO." Ric Flair

Last edited by rollo; 09-14-2017 at 01:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:14 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
UAC, UAC, UAC

Guidance counselors? I don't know what things were like back when you or your children were in HS but my children are more recent grads. I don't value the opinion of these people too highly and my kids went to a pretty highly rated upper end suburban public HS. The vast majority really don't have the knowledge to make an intelligent assessment.

Peers? The same peers that would benefit from a poor assessment of UD?

Faculty? Adjunct professors don't get much love in these ratings but I bet at lease one other poster will agree with me that some of the adjunct faculty are better than the a lot of the lifers found on many college campuses. I'd rather have a part time professor that is teaching a course because he/she is stimulated by it rather than some tenured professor that is just mailing it in.

I am not saying UD can't be better or shouldn't strive to be better but not on the basis of these bs rankings. Show me some statistics of how UD engineering students do on the fundamentals of engineer test vs other schools. Use that as a basis to determine how good or bad we are.

You haven't brought up alumni giving. There are articles out there about how these rankings are biased toward the richer schools. The leap is made that because more money is spent per student and more alumni give, the school must be better. On that basis, the Cleveland public schools must be awesome. I also have to question those alumni that give to Harvard and the other Ivies. They all already have more money then they know what to do with. Why not make your donation to some organization that truly needs it?
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
rollo (09-14-2017)
  #44  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:32 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Incomplete

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
UAC, UAC, UAC

Guidance counselors? I don't know what things were like back when you or your children were in HS but my children are more recent grads. I don't value the opinion of these people too highly and my kids went to a pretty highly rated upper end suburban public HS. The vast majority really don't have the knowledge to make an intelligent assessment.

Peers? The same peers that would benefit from a poor assessment of UD?

Faculty? Adjunct professors don't get much love in these ratings but I bet at lease one other poster will agree with me that some of the adjunct faculty are better than the a lot of the lifers found on many college campuses. I'd rather have a part time professor that is teaching a course because he/she is stimulated by it rather than some tenured professor that is just mailing it in.

I am not saying UD can't be better or shouldn't strive to be better but not on the basis of these bs rankings. Show me some statistics of how UD engineering students do on the fundamentals of engineer test vs other schools. Use that as a basis to determine how good or bad we are.

You haven't brought up alumni giving. There are articles out there about how these rankings are biased toward the richer schools. The leap is made that because more money is spent per student and more alumni give, the school must be better. On that basis, the Cleveland public schools must be awesome. I also have to question those alumni that give to Harvard and the other Ivies. They all already have more money then they know what to do with. Why not make your donation to some organization that truly needs it?
`80....I was in error implying that USN's peer assessment is based on guidance counselors...some of whom are good and some bad. "Peer assessment" as defined by USN includes a broad array of administrators, incl counselors,.... a diverse array of university administrators up to and including university presidents. By the way, I said "guidance counselors et al"...not expecting anyone to pounce on "guidance counselors".

As for UD's atrocious alumni giving rate...while embarrassing, that factor contributes only 5% to a school's USN ranking. It matters; but not much.

And sure, no doubt some adjunct profs are very good just as some full time profs are not. That applies to any school. But, agree with it or not, in the experienced-based opinion of educators, generally,....generally,....full-time professors are better than adjuncts....and schools that rely heavily on adjuncts are skimping on faculty resources generally.

I will add a bit more. In my job I had very frequent contact with Ivy schools, MIT, and other Ivy-like schools outside the East. The faculty at those schools had relatively light teaching loads, as little as one course per semester with every third semester off. That freed them for research and other activities that greatly enhanced their competence in their respective areas. Thus, "faculty resources" as defined by USN goes well beyond the adjunct issue. It includes the number of faculty, teaching loads, etc. and other factors that are known to contribute to outstanding teaching.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 09-14-2017 at 12:41 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:39 PM
cj's Avatar
cj cj is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,932
Thanks: 2,133
Thanked 2,690 Times in 1,392 Posts
cj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond reputecj has a reputation beyond repute
My assessment:
Kid 1 - Pre-med major is now a doctor
Kid 2 - Business/psych and got her masters in HR at South Carolina and now works for GE Lighting division
Kid 3 - Pre-dent and is now in his first year of Dental School at OSU
Kid 4 - Engineering major and is in his 3rd year with a very good GPA, 3.9 or so. Co-oping at Tenneco so will graduate in 4.5 or 5 years.

UD = successful kids if they put into it what they should.
__________________
Give liberals an inch and they will take the country.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to cj For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (09-14-2017), rollo (09-14-2017)
  #46  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:43 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
UAC - But HS counselor ratings are included for National Universities as part of the "Academic Reputation" metric that also includes peer assessment as you describe.

Undergraduate academic reputation (22.5 percent): The U.S. News ranking formula gives weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence. The academic peer assessment survey allows top academics – presidents, provosts and deans of admissions – to account for intangibles at peer institutions, such as faculty dedication to teaching.

To get another set of important opinions on National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, U.S. News also surveyed 2,200 counselors at public high schools, each of which was a gold, silver or bronze medal winner in the 2016 edition of the U.S. News Best High Schools rankings. The counselors surveyed represent every state and the District of Columbia.

Each academic and counselor surveyed was asked to rate schools' academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those who didn't know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know."

The score used in the rankings is the average score of those who rated the school on the 5-point scale; "don't knows" are not counted as part of the average. To reduce the impact of strategic voting by respondents, U.S. News eliminated the two highest and two lowest scores each school received before calculating the average score.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-14-2017, 01:33 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Yes....

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
UAC - But HS counselor ratings are included for National Universities as part of the "Academic Reputation" metric that also includes peer assessment as you describe.

Undergraduate academic reputation (22.5 percent): The U.S. News ranking formula gives weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence. The academic peer assessment survey allows top academics presidents, provosts and deans of admissions to account for intangibles at peer institutions, such as faculty dedication to teaching.

To get another set of important opinions on National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, U.S. News also surveyed 2,200 counselors at public high schools, each of which was a gold, silver or bronze medal winner in the 2016 edition of the U.S. News Best High Schools rankings. The counselors surveyed represent every state and the District of Columbia.

Each academic and counselor surveyed was asked to rate schools' academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those who didn't know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know."

The score used in the rankings is the average score of those who rated the school on the 5-point scale; "don't knows" are not counted as part of the average. To reduce the impact of strategic voting by respondents, U.S. News eliminated the two highest and two lowest scores each school received before calculating the average score.
Seems like a reasonable methodology to me. Whatever the flaws, UD's peer Catholic schools have to live with them as does UD. There is no reason to think UD is at a disadvantage of some sort compared to its Catholic peers.

And you may be giving too little consideration to the faculty resources issue. UConn is ranked #18 among national publics....a very good ranking, tOSU is 16th as I recall. UConn is good....freshmen class has high SAT/ACT marks, high percentage of Top 10% students, large number of valedictorians/salutatorians. It's hard for a CT resident to get into UConn.

Naturally, the UConn administration is happy about its #18 ranking...but is shooting for Top 10 among national publics. But, the State of CT is a fiscal basket case; and UConn has taken a hit and will continue to see its State funding squeezed. For that reason, while pleased with its #18 ranking, the UConn president warned that CT residences should expect a decline in future years because of budget pressures.

Re the impact of budget pressures she focused on one and only one thing...the adverse impact on "faculty resources"....not on facilities, equipment, or capital spending, etc,.....but faculty resources. She explained the need to continue to build and grow a strong faculty in order to sustain the level of excellence UConn has attained, which she expects will suffer as a result of the financial squeeze on faculty.

Faculty strength and depth is a very important issue and is why USN gives it considerable weighting. If you believe that UD would not benefit significantly by investing in additional top, full time faculty, I don't think you're being realistic.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:11 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

Faculty strength and depth is a very important issue and is why USN gives it considerable weighting. If you believe that UD would not benefit significantly by investing in additional top, full time faculty, I don't think you're being realistic.
Of course UD would benefit by more investment in faculty. Then again they would benefit from additional resources being directed at virtually every area of the university but resources are not unlimited. The administration has to decide on an allocation.

Your first post in this thread started like this:

It's a bit complicated...
....and I don't think UD knows how to play the game...or doesn't care. It should, because, as pointed out, students (everyone) pays attention to the rankings.


I guess I have a little more faith in the administration than you. I think perhaps they know a little more than you do about running the university because you are wrong. These rankings may be important in your eyes but they are not important to everyone. I don't know how much the rankings are of a concern to the administration but if they choose to ignore the chase, I am good with their decision. They need to do what is necessary to improve the school and make it the best it can be but getting a higher ranking will not necessarily do that.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:38 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,515
Thanks: 2,982
Thanked 3,484 Times in 2,093 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
C'mon, `80

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Of course UD would benefit by more investment in faculty. Then again they would benefit from additional resources being directed at virtually every area of the university but resources are not unlimited.

I guess I have a little more faith in the administration than you. I think perhaps they know a little more than you do about running the university because you are wrong. These rankings may be important in your eyes but they are not important to everyone. I don't know how much the rankings are of a concern to the administration but if they choose to ignore the chase, I am good with their decision. They need to do what is necessary to improve the school and make it the best it can be but getting a higher ranking will not necessarily do that.
`80, with all due respect, I don't think you're considering the matter objectively. "The rankings may be important in my eyes....but not to everyone"....c'mon.

My eyes don't matter at all `80. But when U.S. News released its annual rankings a few days ago they were covered by every major newspaper in the Country and in most small town papers as well. I live in a town with a population of 60,000 with a regional paper covering a population of about 100,000. The local paper covered the story is depth.....as did the DDN and every newspaper nationally within spittin distance of a college.

Everyone, incl USN, knows that there is more to a college than its rankings. But, everyone also knows that USN uses an entirely reasonable methodology; for that reason people pay attention. The USN rankings are not ignored....not by the UD administration.

When Dan Curran arrived at UD well over a decade ago he found a run down institution in desperate need of major capital improvement. That was his primary area of focus....and the remarkable transformation in UD's infrastructure that we all see today is the result. UD, previously run down and land-locked is now beautiful with land to spare. It's terrific!

I am simply suggesting that it may be time for President Spina to focus on academics now that capital needs are have been met. Of course additional investment in any area would result in improvement. But we know that our capital investment has been great,....the need is not there. Our declining USN ranking suggests investment "needs" in academic areas will provide the most bang for the buck during Spina's era. That is all I am saying.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (09-14-2017)
  #50  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:56 PM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,405
Thanks: 3,677
Thanked 4,216 Times in 2,086 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
This link was provided in the other article I linked.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...nkings/304308/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.