Long term implications for college sports from Covid-19

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 The virus doesn't float in the air freely it is inside droplets of water the mask just has to block the droplets. If the droplet evaporates and the virus is floating freely I am not sure how long it maintains its potency.

Two problems:

1) Very few people are actually wearing an N95 mask, some that do are wearing masks that have ventilation ports on them which is fine if you're working in your wood shop creating dust, it keeps the hot moist breath out of your mask but bad if you're using this type of mask as "protection" especially IF you HAVE the virus; you're literally rendering this type of mask useless and spreading the virus.

2) More and more, I see bandana's and/or "designer" masks being worn which look stylish but are completely, utterly useless in protection. They do look stylish though, so if any enterprising college student wants to start selling red and white "UD Men's Basketball NCAA 2020 National champions"...I would likely buy one just to stick it to all my co-workers who only think UK exists.

[OSU Flyer]

@jeffborzello
·
3h
Mid-major coaches are just waiting for the next shoe to drop.

“All of college basketball is going to have to figure out they have to adjust. Make it a little further down the road."

“The feeling is we aren't going to play nonconference."

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...virus-pandemic

[Flyerferd]

UCon cancels football.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UD62]

Given the difficulty in finding enough teams to play, and the Covid. this is a wise decision.
They could make an even wiser decision by dropping down to FCS where they may be competitive.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by UD62 Given the difficulty in finding enough teams to play, and the Covid. this is a wise decision. Tthey could make an even wiser decision by dropping down to FCS where they may be competitive.

I agree with all of this but I think they feel like they are trapped with the stadium.

It's like pro baseball teams that keep playing/starting players because they are in a big contract and not because they are deserving.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Flyerferd UCon cancels football. Posted via Mobile Device

Don't be surprised if they cancel the program entirely. I don't believe the AAC is going to allow them to remain for football-only. They may decide to just shut it down instead of going independent.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Don't be surprised if they cancel the program entirely. I don't believe the AAC is going to allow them to remain for football-only. They may decide to just shut it down instead of going independent.

UConn already was an independent in football beginning this year. They had developed a schedule for this year but four games had already been canceled.

If they are smart, they should join a FCS league that would take them In and begin to cut their losses. If they are smart and had the spine to do it, they would just cancel football altogether. Too much politics involved to do that though.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I agree with all of this but I think they feel like they are trapped with the stadium.

They spent $91 million to build their stadium that opened in 2003, hard to take that kind of loss. Getting left out of the ACC expansion was a huge blow I'd guess.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat...ntschler_Field

[BeckysTXA]

Stanford head VB coach said it will cost $350,000 to $400,000 to test all fall sports athletes. He acknowledged small conferences won’t have that kind of money.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 They spent $91 million to build their stadium that opened in 2003, hard to take that kind of loss. Getting left out of the ACC expansion was a huge blow I'd guess. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat...ntschler_Field

Yep, and what else would the state do with the stadium.

[UD62]

Cost of the stadium is already baked in. There are several FCS programs that outshine many FBS programs. NDSU, Delaware, James Madison, Villanova, Montana come to mind. Costs would be lower, success better. Would take political nads to do that. BE has three schools that play football, all at the FCS level, Nova,GT, and Butler. Although I believe GT is on shakey ground,

[jack72]

It's not like UConn is going to pay back the $91 million by playing games. That is spent taxpayer money, whether they play or not. The business question is: do they take in enough money from all sources to break even each year? I suspect not, so drop football.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 It's not like UConn is going to pay back the $91 million by playing games. That is spent taxpayer money, whether they play or not. The business question is: do they take in enough money from all sources to break even each year? I suspect not, so drop football.

Right but what becomes of the stadium if they drop football?

[Runnin' Rebel]

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA Stanford head VB coach said it will cost $350,000 to $400,000 to test all fall sports athletes. He acknowledged small conferences won’t have that kind of money.

Trying to understand those $ amounts... if the school has 500 athletes and staff to test, a 1-time test for all 500 (at $100 a pop) comes to $50,000.

So every single person would have to get tested 7 times to reach those figures.

And they are saying it would cost between $350-400,000 just for fall sports?

[jack72]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer Right but what becomes of the stadium if they drop football?

Unless they find some positive revenue stream, which is hard to do way out in Storrs, it will cost a bunch for upkeep, so shut it down or implode it. Maybe they could rent it out as a burial site for Teamsters officers.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud2 They spent $91 million to build their stadium that opened in 2003, hard to take that kind of loss. Getting left out of the ACC expansion was a huge blow I'd guess.

Originally Posted by jack72 It's not like UConn is going to pay back the $91 million by playing games. That is spent taxpayer money, whether they play or not. The business question is: do they take in enough money from all sources to break even each year? I suspect not, so drop football.

Exactly. It's a classic sunk cost. You're not going to make up the difference in volume when your marginal profits are negative.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by jack72 Unless they find some positive revenue stream, which is hard to do way out in Storrs, it will cost a bunch for upkeep, so shut it down or implode it. Maybe they could rent it out as a burial site for Teamsters officers.

If UD followed your requirement of "break even", we would have one sport competing at D-1. Revenue streams can come from many sources, and sports can help enhance the overall income of the University. At UD the overall athletic budget is about 30M, Income from sports is about 18M, most of which is from MBB. Football budget is just north of 1M. As a comparison I believe the athletic budget at tOSO is in the 180M range.
What is not included in those figures is the income generated by contributions and enrollment applications generated by the success of any one or several teams. UCONN could make it work at FCS, but probably will not try.

[Figgie123]

Maybe when it goes to auction, DetroitFlyer can bid a few dollars and have it dismantled and donated for DetroitFlyer Football Stadium at Baujan Field.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Maybe when it goes to auction, DetroitFlyer can bid a few dollars and have it dismantled and donated for DetroitFlyer Football Stadium at Baujan Field.

Whatever happened to DetriotFlyer? I don’t see him posting much anymore.

[UD62]

Miss DF. He was always the optimist. Thought on a good day we could beat anybody, even the upper D-1 schools.

[Medford]

Don't know much about Storrs, but I'd assume that if they dropped from D1 to FCS, they could still use the stadium for UCONN football. They could use it for HS games, state high school championships, concerts, soccer perhaps (don't know how adaptable it is, or if it could be fitted to have State HS soccer championships there), etc... They can still find plenty of things to use it for.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Trying to understand those $ amounts... if the school has 500 athletes and staff to test, a 1-time test for all 500 (at $100 a pop) comes to $50,000. So every single person would have to get tested 7 times to reach those figures. And they are saying it would cost between $350-400,000 just for fall sports?

I think athletes are going to be tested every week. I know conferences like the B10 are going to go to Fri-Sat schedules with the two teams playing each other twice at one location. So half your matches are home and the other half away, but you don’t have a home match against half the conference. It’s to reduce costs and my guess is to reduce testing. You live in a bubble for those two days to play your matches. You actually probably live in a bubble for 4 days - to test, get results and play.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by UD62 If UD followed your requirement of "break even", we would have one sport competing at D-1. Revenue streams can come from many sources, and sports can help enhance the overall income of the University. At UD the overall athletic budget is about 30M, Income from sports is about 18M, most of which is from MBB. Football budget is just north of 1M. As a comparison I believe the athletic budget at tOSO is in the 180M range. What is not included in those figures is the income generated by contributions and enrollment applications generated by the success of any one or several teams. UCONN could make it work at FCS, but probably will not try.

UD62, your implicit assumption is that there's a sustainable business model hidden in there somewhere. UD's business model is sustainable; if we added a non-sustainable D1 football program to the mix that would stop being the case.

The point being made is that it's not just a few hundred thousand here and that which can be covered by an extra home game by the women's basketball team. It's tens of millions of $'s that make a hole that cannot be plugged by another means, while still giving the students an exciting experience.

Now, if the taxpayers of CT want to continue to plug that hole, go for it. But that's not the argument being made. The argument being made is that it's a bad use of taxpayer $$ because that's the only way to make that ship float.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Gazoo UD62, your implicit assumption is that there's a sustainable business model hidden in there somewhere. UD's business model is sustainable; if we added a non-sustainable D1 football program to the mix that would stop being the case. The point being made is that it's not just a few hundred thousand here and that which can be covered by an extra home game by the women's basketball team. It's tens of millions of $'s that make a hole that cannot be plugged by another means, while still giving the students an exciting experience. Now, if the taxpayers of CT want to continue to plug that hole, go for it. But that's not the argument being made. The argument being made is that it's a bad use of taxpayer $$ because that's the only way to make that ship float.

I submit that there is a sustainable business model, Many FCS schools have success, and almost all without the advantage of the income generated by two basketball teams that are members of the BE. i do agree that if UD had scholarship D-1 football team that the business model would not be sustainable. That is the beauty of the Pioneer league, minimal cost yet have the sport. UCONN could trim costs and still compete.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UD62 At UD the overall athletic budget is about 30M, Income from sports is about 18M, most of which is from MBB.

Do you know what the split is between money from ticket sales/home games and TV revenue? Is almost all of that $18 million from home game revenue? So if there are no home games this year, UD will lose almost $18 million in revenue?

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by UD62 I submit that there is a sustainable business model, Many FCS schools have success, and almost all without the advantage of the income generated by two basketball teams that are members of the BE. i do agree that if UD had scholarship D-1 football team that the business model would not be sustainable. That is the beauty of the Pioneer league, minimal cost yet have the sport. UCONN could trim costs and still compete.

Sustainable at the FCS level? Yes, agree, sorry if I missed that. Sustainable at the FBS level? No, not without the taxpayers.

And then the cost of the stadium: it's a sunk cost, playing more games (and losing more money) at the FBS level doesn't fix that problem. Play at the FCS level and admit it was a giant mistake that they're now stuck with. Try to make lemonade out of the lemons. But staying at FBS just makes the problem worse.

[BeckysTXA]

NCAA cancels (not postponed) all DII and DIII championships. Said it was not able to financially move them to spring. No decision on DI yet.

Also said divisions ,must declare if they will play their seasons and play for a championship by August 21st. That puts the A10 in a difficult position. The A10 was going to see how it goes and jump stat fall sports if they saw an opportunity to do so. Won’t be able to wait and see now. Final decisions must be declared in two weeks.

I’m now expecting DI fall sports to all move to spring with spring championships. Football might be the exception.

[ud69]

MAC cancels all fall sports including football. It is the first FBS conference to cancel football. The dominoes continue to fall. Expect more to follow. The P5 will be under tremendous pressure to cave on football as well.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-for-the-fall/

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Medford Don't know much about Storrs, but I'd assume that if they dropped from D1 to FCS, they could still use the stadium for UCONN football. They could use it for HS games, state high school championships, concerts, soccer perhaps (don't know how adaptable it is, or if it could be fitted to have State HS soccer championships there), etc... They can still find plenty of things to use it for.

The stadium is not in Storrs. It’s actually in East Hartford. So, if Hartford has a professional soccer team, it could be used for that. Otherwise, it’ll be about as useful as the Sarajevo luge run from the 1984 Winter Olympics.
Posted via Mobile Device

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by ud69 MAC cancels all fall sports including football. It is the first FBS conference to cancel football. The dominoes continue to fall. Expect more to follow. The P5 will be under tremendous pressure to cave on football as well. https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-for-the-fall/

It wouldn’t surprise me if the MAC never plays football again...

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by springborofan It wouldn’t surprise me if the MAC never plays football again...

That would very much surprise me.

[CE80]

At this point, I’m not surprised at anything.

[Flyerferd]

One big problem for the Mac is their dependence on the Big Ten for revenue games. I realize other conferences at that level do this sort of thing, but they don’t tend to rely on one conference to fill all of those needs.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Flyerferd One big problem for the Mac is their dependence on the Big Ten for revenue games. I realize other conferences at that level do this sort of thing, but they don’t tend to rely on one conference to fill all of those needs. Posted via Mobile Device

That is not accurate IMO, last year 8 of the 12 MAC schools played at least 1 ooc football game vs. a non-Big 10 p5 school.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Flyerferd One big problem for the Mac is their dependence on the Big Ten for revenue games. I realize other conferences at that level do this sort of thing, but they don’t tend to rely on one conference to fill all of those needs. Posted via Mobile Device

Not really. Last year they played 10 games against the BIG10 and 13 (including ND) against all other Power 5 conferences.

[TommyGola]

It looks like the Big-10 will be announcing tomorrow that they will not be playing football this season...at all. The teams voted 12-2 to eliminate the season. Nebraska and Iowa were the only teams to vote to keep the season. The dominoes are falling one by one. This portends that most conferences will opt out of the season this year.

[BeckysTXA]

NE fans are losing it. Welcome to the Flyer Faithful’s nightmare in March - only it was 10X worse because our team was positioned to win it all.

	Flyer Faithful FLYER FAITHFUL Best college basketball fans in the country. Knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and loyal. Help to create one of the toughest home courts in the nation at UD Arena. Over 12,000 fans a game put the Flyers in the Top-30 nationally in attendance. Fan spirit and support growing to other UD sports and athletic programs as well.

[hawkoooo]

Were the players given a say in all of this? What would stop an individual school from putting together an independent schedule and playing anyway?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Were the players given a say in all of this? What would stop an individual school from putting together an independent schedule and playing anyway?

So Nebraska would play the Hawkeyes 10 times. This just the start. No conference would be able to justify playing now. FCS, D2 and D3 all stopping, BIG to cancel toworrow, believe PAC 12 to do the same. all others will follow. SEC could be an exception as they aren't too bright anyway. But in all likelyhood the football season is over before it began. Pros will be interesting, they have a shot but it will be uphill

[BeckysTXA]

If they go rouge this fall And play some games (which won’t happen) it would probably mean they would not be allowed to play in the league in the spring.

The big cancelled/postponed all fall sports. VB just started practices yesterday. Lots of social media pictures with everyone wearing masks. Obviously the other conferences will follow. I assume the NCAA is working on practice rules for each sport as we speak. Gonna be a busy spring on every campus and for tv networks.

Vegas will have to open betting on who, what, where, when a vaccine becomes available. They have almost nothing else left to bet on.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Ridiculois... what is the B10's plan then - wait to start sports until there is a vaccine (that may or may not be effective)?

Are all B10 schools going to remote learning then too?

[BeckysTXA]

I thought they might move everything but football to the spring, freeing up athletic departments to focus on keeping football personnel safe and in a bubble. The fact FB also got moved IMO helps men’s and women’s b-ball. Now the focus can be on those two programs and building protocols that make it possible to get these seasons up and running. The TBT, NBA, NHL and PGA are setting standards. MLB is showing what isn’t working. Yes it su*ks we have to miss college sports for another 3-4 months, but it gives us the best chance to launch as much of the basketball season as possible. That’s the silver lining right now in an ever evolving world.

[Runnin' Rebel]

The country has had hundreds of protests occur in June/July (some with thousands of people)... no social distancing.

None of those people were tested before they went.

And every state allowed it, but there can't be college football in any form?

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel The country has had hundreds of protests occur in June/July (some with thousands of people)... no social distancing. None of those people were tested before they went. And every state allowed it, but there can't be college football in any form?

Don't you watch the news? That had nothing to do with the spike!

[Runnin' Rebel]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Don't you watch the news? That had nothing to do with the spike!

That is my point... if the huge protests had nothing to do with the spike of cases - then they should be good to play college football.

Did you see some of the aerial photos of the protests... they looked like a OSU-_ichigan game!

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel That is my point... if the huge protests had nothing to do with the spike of cases - then they should be good to play college football. Did you see some of the aerial photos of the protests... they looked like a OSU-_ichigan game!

Sshhhh....don’t you know none of us are allowed to speak on this topic. It never happened. Just like in China Tienneman Square never happened.

[BeckysTXA]

I’m not sure fans in the stadiums are the issue. It’s if athletes get the virus or are exposed to it via a coach or ref on the field. The liability and the fact if a team is exposed, they are out for two weeks. And the cost of testing and keeping fall athletes in a bubble. It always comes down to $ and liability concerns. In this case also safety of the players and program staff.

That’s measured against the option to move everything to the spring when everyone is saying several vaccines plus treatments will be on the market. I doubt it was a hard decision when waiting 4-5 more months might solve all issues.

[Runnin' Rebel]

A lot of people are going back to work... my company is in downtown Cincy, and 1 floor there has been in the office this whole time.

My floor started back at 1/2 capacity last month.

Nothing but temp checks, and wearing masks in common areas (not required at desk areas).

This is happening at many places, and with higher at risk age groups (versus college age).

So why are college kids getting tested, when they have no symptoms?

Because they are afraid they will pass it to someone else, right?

Well everyone knows the risks/rewards by age group and other health factors... give everyone of those involved with the game a choice to go back to "work". Have them sign a waiver, releasing Covid liability.

Just seems like it should be their choice, and not forced upon them.

[Runnin' Rebel]

It will be spread all through campus and off-campus housing in no time anyway... probably done by Labor Day.

The partying has already started, and will be going on over the whole 2 week "move in".

So come basketball season, if you were gonna get it (you would have already had it and recovered).

[BeckysTXA]

I thought the B10 was a done deal but tonight’s news said they and the PAC were still considering the decision. The NCAA has ruled they need an answer by Aug 21, so it won’t be long for everyone to make these decisions.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel The country has had hundreds of protests occur in June/July (some with thousands of people)... no social distancing. None of those people were tested before they went. And every state allowed it, but there can't be college football in any form?

Hmmm...protests across much of the country in June and July...a COVID spike across much of the country in June and July...yet no possibility of any correlation whatsoever? RIIIIIGHT!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Hmmm...protests across much of the country in June and July...a COVID spike across much of the country in June and July...yet no possibility of any correlation whatsoever? RIIIIIGHT!

The Covid spike you reference occured almost entirely in the Deep South and sunbelt states - but you knew that, right?

___________________
A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest.
Paul Simon - The Boxer

[Figgie123]

PAC12 has suspended all sports until January 1. This is all fall sports AND the start of winter sports. Specifically mentioned basketball.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark The Covid spike you reference occured almost entirely in the Deep South and sunbelt states - but you knew that, right? ___________________ A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest. Paul Simon - The Boxer

There were protests all across the country. I think it was probably both the protests and the southern and sunbelt states being late in adopting masks, social distancing, etc.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States

[ud69]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 PAC12 has suspended all sports until January 1. This is all fall sports AND the start of winter sports. Specifically mentioned basketball.

This will immediately affect several basketball exempt tournaments where PAC12 schools were scheduled to participate this fall.

https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2...ay-tournaments

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 PAC12 has suspended all sports until January 1. This is all fall sports AND the start of winter sports. Specifically mentioned basketball.

I'd have to think it's a matter of time before smaller conferences follow

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by UD62 So Nebraska would play the Hawkeyes 10 times. This just the start. No conference would be able to justify playing now. FCS, D2 and D3 all stopping, BIG to cancel toworrow, believe PAC 12 to do the same. all others will follow. SEC could be an exception as they aren't too bright anyway. But in all likelyhood the football season is over before it began. Pros will be interesting, they have a shot but it will be uphill

You should watch the Scott Frost's press conference. He suggests the exact same thing I did. Playing a schedule with or without the B10.

No conference would be able to justify playing now? SEC and ACC: hold my beer.

[shocka43]

As a sports fan...and I hate to say it...they might as well cancel sports until this entire thing is figured out...and in a non-partisan argument way. I am sick of the day to day changes and the fact that everyone is in limbo from schools, to athletes, to conferences, to television networks, to the fans. Everyone has some sort of stake in this entire thing. It all boils down to money for everyone other than the players, and even in that sense it boils down to money for those who are going to the next level. If there is a pause on everything, you have an unknown turned into a known.

I have my personal opinions. The illness is real, but the responses can be highly debated. With that said, my daughter's school volleyball team is practicing and going on as planned. As of today, she will be back in school in a a few weeks. There is no freaking out with testing or the like with these kids. It seems as though nothing in this whole deal is scaled at all. She also plays select soccer and that is a go.

Youth sports, with active and vacationing families, have been going on for months. Those same kids are now back playing school sports. So...high school sports are relatively a go...but colleges can't seem to figure it out? It's rather baffling to be honest.

No one has the balls to call the shots and take the risks. Youth sports is doing that because the decision is on the parents letting their kids play.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by shocka43 As a sports fan...and I hate to say it...they might as well cancel sports until this entire thing is figured out...and in a non-partisan argument way. I am sick of the day to day changes and the fact that everyone is in limbo from schools, to athletes, to conferences, to television networks, to the fans. Everyone has some sort of stake in this entire thing. It all boils down to money for everyone other than the players, and even in that sense it boils down to money for those who are going to the next level. If there is a pause on everything, you have an unknown turned into a known. I have my personal opinions. The illness is real, but the responses can be highly debated. With that said, my daughter's school volleyball team is practicing and going on as planned. As of today, she will be back in school in a a few weeks. There is no freaking out with testing or the like with these kids. It seems as though nothing in this whole deal is scaled at all. She also plays select soccer and that is a go. Youth sports, with active and vacationing families, have been going on for months. Those same kids are now back playing school sports. So...high school sports are relatively a go...but colleges can't seem to figure it out? It's rather baffling to be honest. No one has the balls to call the shots and take the risks. Youth sports is doing that because the decision is on the parents letting their kids play.

These are all good points. I’ll add there isn’t much to sue in youth sports associations. And like you said, it’s a parental decision. Compare that to a P5 institution and the NCAA. A lot more attractive for lawyers if a player gets COVID, especially if someone dies. And overlay that with the fact they’ll say the player received pressure from the school, coach and teammates to play. It appears to come down to lawsuit risks at this point.

[rollo]

If BIG10 Presidents can't protect 120 football players...with practices, mandatory tutoring tables, team meals and everything else they do together during a season, how can they justify opening their Universities at all?

If you can't protect a small group of focused athletes that you have contact and control of for roughly 12 of the 24 hrs in a day, how can you protect the other 55,000 students that you have 0 control over.

What a bunch of crap. As I told my kids, this is what happens when you deal with liberal think-tanks, all of who are afraid of the boogie-man.

[Runnin' Rebel]

OSU just needs to schedule a weekly peaceful protest... say on Saturdays at noon.

Each week OSU and another B10 school can protest who is the better team.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by shocka43 It all boils down to money for everyone other than the players, and even in that sense it boils down to money for those who are going to the next level.

Originally Posted by rollo If BIG10 Presidents can't protect 120 football players...with practices, mandatory tutoring tables, team meals and everything else they do together during a season, how can they justify opening their Universities at all?

shocka43, it's all about money? Like, the guy/girl trying to finish a doctorate to become a surgeon, and start making money? I don't see why sports is treated any differently. It's just another profession. With sports you can get the public to subsidize your education program--they're paying the scholarships, recruiting, and marketing. With the medical program you charge the medical student, as well as hit them up for cash later once they're rich.

Yeah, it's all about money.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel OSU just needs to schedule a weekly peaceful protest... say on Saturdays at noon. Each week OSU and another B10 school can protest who is the better team.

I was thinking the same thing for the Sturgis Rally. It’s being labeled as a mega virus spreading event. They needed to call it the Sturgis Protest Rally - then it’s no problem.

[Alberto Strasse]

represent the smartest people raise your hand?

[O Doyle Rules]

Interesting article concerning how the players feel. I thought I was against the unionization of college athletes, but I think this article may have changed my mind.

LET THEM PLAY!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...7le?li=BBnb7Kz

[Chris R]

Lack of leadership by the NCAA/FCP on this has been atrocious. Zero continuity, cohesion, unity, and assertiveness on what to do. So everyone is going rogue and doing whatever they want -- which puts the entire season/system into chaos because the system is predicated on consensus on what to do. By consensus I dont mean agreement on whats right or wrong, but consensus on how to proceed together. You may think playing fall sports is wrong, but join into a consensus to play fall sports to keep the collective system glued together. Or push to spring for the same reasons despite wanting to play fall sports.

The NCAA last stated (June) that fall championships were still on. Its August. Most schools are usually starting regular seasons by now. The FCP which controls power-5 football needs similar public direction. Just make a decision and stick with it. Then everyone else can decide whether they want to play and compete for a calendared championship, or play at a different time and play to compete simply for conference titles or the individual wins and losses.

When everyone is doing their own thing, we have no system. In the schools/conferences defense, theyve had little choice because the NCAA/FCP leadership has abdicated responsibility and clarity of conviction.

[BeckysTXA]

Volleyball is dead for fall play. More than 50% of the programs moving to spring. NCAA said if that happened, they will cancel fall national championship.

I posted more details in vball thread, but now what is the SEC, ACC and Big12 going to do? (Only play football?) It probably affects soccer too but I don’t have those counts.

[bigred]

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA Volleyball is dead for fall play. More than 50% of the programs moving to spring. NCAA said if that happened, they will cancel fall national championship. I posted more details in vball thread, but now what is the SEC, ACC and Big12 going to do? (Only play football?) It probably affects soccer too but I don’t have those counts.

I don't think they could only play football and postpone everything else. That would create a potential Title IX problem -- particularly if things get worse in the winter months and the sports end up being cancelled altogether.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Chris R Lack of leadership by the NCAA/FCP on this has been atrocious. Zero continuity, cohesion, unity, and assertiveness on what to do. So everyone is going rogue and doing whatever they want -- which puts the entire season/system into chaos because the system is predicated on consensus on what to do. By consensus I dont mean agreement on whats right or wrong, but consensus on how to proceed together. You may think playing fall sports is wrong, but join into a consensus to play fall sports to keep the collective system glued together. Or push to spring for the same reasons despite wanting to play fall sports. The NCAA last stated (June) that fall championships were still on. Its August. Most schools are usually starting regular seasons by now. The FCP which controls power-5 football needs similar public direction. Just make a decision and stick with it. Then everyone else can decide whether they want to play and compete for a calendared championship, or play at a different time and play to compete simply for conference titles or the individual wins and losses. When everyone is doing their own thing, we have no system. In the schools/conferences defense, theyve had little choice because the NCAA/FCP leadership has abdicated responsibility and clarity of conviction.

The NCAA and its leadership has more than its share of problems but don't blame them for the cancellation of football. The P5 has been calling their own shots for a long time. I liken it to the Govenors telling the President that he can't tell the states what to do but when the Govenors f it up, they want to blame the President.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Gazoo shocka43, it's all about money? Like, the guy/girl trying to finish a doctorate to become a surgeon, and start making money? I don't see why sports is treated any differently. It's just another profession. With sports you can get the public to subsidize your education program--they're paying the scholarships, recruiting, and marketing. With the medical program you charge the medical student, as well as hit them up for cash later once they're rich. Yeah, it's all about money.

As Rollo stated and Saban. Kids are safer on campus in a controlled environment than not.

Student or student athlete. How can anyone say that it is okay for students to be on campus doing their day to day while college athletics can't resume? There is zero logic. Does any realistic university president think that kids aren't going to be smashing Natty Light in their dorms and in campus housing as soon as they return to campus?

Universities want to say this is all about safety? No. It is not about safety. If it were campuses would be closed.

Universities don't care about the student athlete unless they are making them money. Reduced schedules and no fans in the stands equate to a loss of revenue....and just like UD...revenue in the form of the Arena Seating Program that that can sit on...your cash...to not put a product on the field or court. Universities are using the fine print to get theirs, while they have no problem cancelling things that prevent fans from getting theirs. So what if they screw over the student athlete right? They have no expenses this year. Just like conferences cancelling non-revenue generating tournaments months in advance.

NCAA comes out and states the are confident that there will be basketball. At what expense? To that of the fans? They will surely try to renegotiate TV contracts and tell the networks that they will not play games unless contracts are revised due to the amount of eyes on the TV now since there will be no fans at games.

You hear me refer to "us" in this equation. Because without the "us" in this equation there is no money for college sports. No fans...no tv revenue. No fans...no gate receipts, merch, sales, concessions, donations to the programs, construction projects, etc. There is a silent majority out there right now that is not missing sports at all. The NCAA is treading on territory that the sports that are going down the SJW and BLM path. NBA, etc...ratings completely in the crapper. The same thing will happen to college sports should they not think about the shareholders in the process. You may not see it now, but you will in the future.

There is zero logic to many of the decisions made, and unfortunately...everyone is following suit instead of leading from the front.

Like I said...cancel the entire year. At least everyone knows what the hell is going on. Because right now, the lack of leadership by universities and the NCAA is on front street. Zero global direction and it is a free for all.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by CE80 The NCAA and its leadership has more than its share of problems but don't blame them for the cancellation of football. The P5 has been calling their own shots for a long time. I liken it to the Govenors telling the President that he can't tell the states what to do but when the Govenors f it up, they want to blame the President.

Thats why I referenced the CFP and not the NCAA which crowns the national champion. Whatever they decide everybody would follow because its the brass ring they are after. If the CFP said we're playing fall football come heck of high water, most schools would opt to play now. If they said spring, most would play in the spring.

Without the playoff and a chance to qualify for it, football for a program is effectively nothing more than phs-ed. Most would have no interest wasting a year of eligibility going through the motions.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA I was thinking the same thing for the Sturgis Rally. It’s being labeled as a mega virus spreading event. They needed to call it the Sturgis Protest Rally - then it’s no problem.

Yeah, but then they’d have to burn businesses, tear down statues, and do other things that “peaceful protesters” do. I’m not sure bikers would consent to that.
Posted via Mobile Device

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse represent the smartest people raise your hand?

I can tell you where the smartest people are NOT at... this thread. Good Lord.

[UD62]

Interesting how a few weeks ago, player organizations in the BIG and PAC12 were making all sorts of demands concerning player safety and a whole list of "social justice" and economic demands. And now the players are left with nothing but time on their hands.

I like to watch football, but whether they play or not is not on my top 50 of things I care about. It's entertainment, nothing more. Fun to watch but not essential.l

[TommyGola]

That old adage: "You better watch out what you ask for...you just might get it!"

[Runnin' Rebel]

Read this recently...

Five months since the lockdowns went into effect, the 21/90 rule has been adopted by many Americans and its impact on sports is a ticking timebomb.

What’s the 21/90 rule?

To quote: “It takes 21 days to build or break a habit and 90 days to create a lifestyle. If you want to make most things a cornerstone to your life, understand that it won’t feel like second nature to you until about the 90-day mark.”

150+ days into the Covid-19 nightmare and many (not all) fans have lost their passion for sports (as evidenced by the ratings). They’ve found other routines, different ways to find “escapism”, and this impact will have devastating effects on the economic future of sports.

And when you add to the mix how the Woke Cancel Culture has invaded corporate America, media, universities, and athletes, these tremors are quickly turning into a massive economic earthquake.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Read this recently... Five months since the lockdowns went into effect, the 21/90 rule has been adopted by many Americans and its impact on sports is a ticking timebomb. What’s the 21/90 rule? To quote: “It takes 21 days to build or break a habit and 90 days to create a lifestyle. If you want to make most things a cornerstone to your life, understand that it won’t feel like second nature to you until about the 90-day mark.” 150+ days into the Covid-19 nightmare and many (not all) fans have lost their passion for sports (as evidenced by the ratings). They’ve found other routines, different ways to find “escapism”, and this impact will have devastating effects on the economic future of sports. And when you add to the mix how the Woke Cancel Culture has invaded corporate America, media, universities, and athletes, these tremors are quickly turning into a massive economic earthquake.

Not sure I understand what you mean by - economic earthquake. I agree sports is losing its appeal to many people but they are spending their money on other things. It may be better if those dollars end up in more pockets than the few elite athletes and owners of their teams.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Read this recently... Five months since the lockdowns went into effect, the 21/90 rule has been adopted by many Americans and its impact on sports is a ticking timebomb. What’s the 21/90 rule? To quote: “It takes 21 days to build or break a habit and 90 days to create a lifestyle. If you want to make most things a cornerstone to your life, understand that it won’t feel like second nature to you until about the 90-day mark.” 150+ days into the Covid-19 nightmare and many (not all) fans have lost their passion for sports (as evidenced by the ratings). They’ve found other routines, different ways to find “escapism”, and this impact will have devastating effects on the economic future of sports. And when you add to the mix how the Woke Cancel Culture has invaded corporate America, media, universities, and athletes, these tremors are quickly turning into a massive economic earthquake.

Good post.

This sums up my personal feelings on sports right now. I have yet to watch the Reds this season and that is something I religiously do regardless of how bad they are.

We are all passionate Flyers fans. With how last season ended, many are still deflated and much less than a 100% return will not fill the void as a fan. There will be fan disinterest across all of sports in my opinion. But, maybe we all get lucky and everyone goes wild for the return of UD hoops, tOSU football, etc. I just simply think that many people have and will continue to lose interest simply because the seasonal routine is gone.

I would go from season to season looking forward to the next. Baseball into football, into hoops, into MLB and back into a little racing, golf, UFC, and hockey spread between. Slowly we start to forget, and as you said, have adapted different lifestyles that haven't revolved around a TV and sports on a Saturday night.

It will be interesting. I think you are going to have fans across all sports that lose interest, and the die hards will be back in full force. The tweeners may have picked up some new hobbies along the way and they will need reeled back in.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by CE80 Not sure I understand what you mean by - economic earthquake. I agree sports is losing its appeal to many people but they are spending their money on other things. It may be better if those dollars end up in more pockets than the few elite athletes and owners of their teams.

I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who I counted on as religiously following sports, who tell me they haven't watched a single NBA, MLB, or NHL game.

What they thought was important just isn't important to them anymore. They've found the joy of reading, making their way through Game of Thrones, etc. Sports just doesn't interest them anymore.

The reasons vary. A few consistent themes repeat:

1. I don't care about SJW. I want to watch sports. Stop cramming things down my throat. Or not, I'll just change the channel.

2. I've discovered it's just not that important. Yes, you, Mr. LeBron James. Just. Not. That. Important.

3. I've realized how many better ways I have to spend my time.

4. I now realize how spoiled all these freaking people are. And so I no longer associate with them.


Personally, it's a lot more #1 and #4. You don't care if I change the channel? Deal. I'm out.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who I counted on as religiously following sports, who tell me they haven't watched a single NBA, MLB, or NHL game. What they thought was important just isn't important to them anymore. They've found the joy of reading, making their way through Game of Thrones, etc. Sports just doesn't interest them anymore. The reasons vary. A few consistent themes repeat: 1. I don't care about SJW. I want to watch sports. Stop cramming things down my throat. Or not, I'll just change the channel. 2. I've discovered it's just not that important. Yes, you, Mr. LeBron James. Just. Not. That. Important. 3. I've realized how many better ways I have to spend my time. 4. I now realize how spoiled all these freaking people are. And so I no longer associate with them. Personally, it's a lot more #1 and #4. You don't care if I change the channel? Deal. I'm out.

And the numbers don't lie...those sports playing the #1 and #4 have rankings in the crapper.

NASCAR and Golf have the best TV ratings by a long shot compared to the other professional sports....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why.

[T-Bone 84]

I’ll come back to watching sports (live or on TV) when it’s my Flyers. I’ve caught a few Reds games on FSOhio, but media contracts have sucked much of the fun out of baseball for me (compare the payrolls of teams like Cincy, KC, and the Pirates to those of the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs - the playing field isn’t level). I’ve watched some hockey, since I have family that are CBJ fans. But until Obi starts playing for big bucks, I really don’t care about the NBA any more, and I’ll need to see if my Bengals are more concerned with playing football or being SJWs before I invest too much of myself in the NFL.

And, to go from sports to entertainment in general, there’s only a few actors/actresses I’ll pay theater money to see, and I can’t remember the last time I watched a non-sports program on a broadcast channel. I don’t like to use my money to support people who tell me what a bad person I am. I’d rather give a few extra bucks of a tip to the waitress at the restaurant, or put an extra $20 in the St. Vincent DePaul collection at church, to help the hungry & homeless. That’s my way of supporting social justice.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rollo]

The Palatial lawn has never looked cleaner or greener. And I plan on keeping it that way.

[Flyerferd]

I would add a fifth reason 2Y sports television viewing may not be as robust in the future. “My spouse has gotten really used to me watching other things with them than sports. “You’re not putting that genie back in the bottle! The conversations will probably go some thing in my house like, OK this football game has been wonderful for 45 minutes. Now let’s watch mystery diners.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by rollo The Palatial lawn has never looked cleaner or greener. And I plan on keeping it that way.

You must have left Rudy the Wonderdog back in Oakwood. Or, since the time Rudy was hijacked to Springboro, he learned how to put his poo in the loo.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 You must have left Rudy the Wonderdog back in Oakwood. Or, since the time Rudy was hijacked to Springboro, he learned how to put his poo in the loo.

All joking aside, Rudy the Wonderdog likes to poop on cement. So beware when walking on the palatial driveway, patio, front sidewalk and/or Royal Birkdale Dr!

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by rollo Royal Birkdale Dr!

Royal Birkdale? Nice hood! My house keeper lives there

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Royal Birkdale? Nice hood! My house keeper lives there

Why would your wife live way our here?

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Royal Birkdale? Nice hood! My house keeper lives there

No way you have a housekeeper with the looks of that mullet you are currently sporting.

Have to change your handle to "JoeDirtFlyerFan".

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by rollo The Palatial lawn has never looked cleaner or greener. And I plan on keeping it that way.

Must be due to all the manure you throw out!

OUCH!!

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 No way you have a housekeeper with the looks of that mullet you are currently sporting. Have to change your handle to "JoeDirtFlyerFan".

The mullet rocks, my wife AND housekeeper both think it is super sexy blowing in the breeze flying down the lake. #IamAtrendsetter

[OSU Flyer]

@JonRothstein
·
17m
The NCAA will decide by mid-September whether or not the 20-21 college basketball season will begin on time or a short-term delay is necessary due to COVID-19, per release.

[Chris R]

Lots of rebuttals and waffling from players and coaches and conferences on their Covid competition decisions. Its going to be exceedingly difficult for any of these institutions that have locked down their campuses to e-learning, banning on-campus residents, and other social distancing actions to then justify the decision to play a contact sport like college football.

If its not safe enough to sit in a lecture hall and learn Biology, why is it any safer to greco roman wrestle a bunch of strangers from another out-of-state university on a football field for three hours? The conferences and schools are more or less admitting that some students are more economically vital and are willing to prostitute those students because they earn the university a greater income -- even though the Biology student may be taking the exact same courses as the football student.

But the schools and conferences understand as well that they are paying the football player to perform on the field and they want a financial ROI for spending $100,000 a year on that kid for tuition, books, housing, travel, training, medical, tutors, apparel, and promotion/marketing. For the kid with $100,000 in self-signed Stafford loans however that's paying his own way to the same classes, the university is far less financially invested to care nearly as much about that kid's safety or future.

If its not safe enough to go to class (and Im not saying it is or isn't), it sure shouldnt be safe enough to play contact sports. Whats a school Prez or Chancellor going to say when asked why the doors cant remain open to educate someone, but they can remain open to run, pass, and kick a football? They have basically admitted big-time college athletics is nothing but a semi-pro endeavor where the classwork is ornamental at best and entirely irrelevant for too many. Those schools are making it clear which activity is driving the bus.

The college environment is either safe to be open for business or it isnt. Its either safe for everyone or safe for no one. If colleges cannot ensure the same level of safety for the general student as they can the student athlete, they need to correct that imbalance before opening the doors at all. They speak repeatedly about sportsmanship and fair play. Perhaps they should live up to their ideals for all of their enrollment whether they carry footballs or textbooks.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by Chris R The college environment is either safe to be open for business or it isnt. Its either safe for everyone or safe for no one. If colleges cannot ensure the same level of safety for the general student as they can the student athlete, they need to correct that imbalance before opening the doors at all. They speak repeatedly about sportsmanship and fair play. Perhaps they should live up to their ideals for all of their enrollment whether they carry footballs or textbooks.

Not saying I necessarily say I agree with this, but you could make the argument it is easier to keep a smaller team in a bubble than an entire campus. When it comes to keeping players safe, baseball has struggled but the NBA has been pretty successful. That is why I still have some hope we may see college basketball this upcoming season

[BeckysTXA]

I’m not really sure who “owns” the College Football Playoffs. I think it’s the 10 conferences jointly. I do know it’s a 13-member committee that decides the four teams in the playoffs and the other 8 teams that go to the major bowl games. But will they be who decides if College Football has a fall Playoff for a Championship? If so...how would the committee be likely to vote? So I looked up who was on the committee this year and what conferences they were affiliated with.

Gary Barta (Chair, AD Iowa) B1G
John Urschel (former AA, Penn St) B1G
Paola Boivin (Professor, AZ St) PAC
Rick George (AD CO) PAC
Ronnie Lott ( former AA USC) PAC
Tom Burma (AD Wyoming) Mountain West

If these members vote with their school affiliation - thinking they want their school to play for a championship - they will probably vote “no” to a fall schedule/championship if possible. 6 No Votes

Joe Castiglione (AD OK) Big 12
Scott Strickland (AD FL) SEC
Todd Stansburg (AD GA Tech) ACC
Terry Mohajir (AD Arkansas St) Sun Belt
RC Slocum (former HC TX AM) Big 12
Ken Hatfield (former HC at Arkansas, Clemson, Rice. Played at Arkansas) SEC

6 Yes Votes

Final member is from an Independent school...I could not determine if he played football in college.

Ray Odierno (4-star general and former Chief of Staff US Army. Attended West Point) Army is playing football this fall, so Odierno is probably a Yes Vote, but he also got a masters degree from NC St and they reported 42 new COVID cases today with UNC down the road announcing last week classes were moving to online only because of positive cases, tied to student parties. And he was chief of staff for Condolesa Rice - Stanford grad PAC, so who knows?

Right now, I’d project a 7-6 vote to go ahead with a championship this fall IF the season gets off the ground for these schools/conferences. Obviously subject to actual voting and what happens with COVID.

[John C.]

College students are the last people people I would want to be around if I was trying to be Covid free. They have their own set of rules when it comes to social distancing and I doubt they are wearing masks on the weekend. Teams on the other hand understand what could happen if they happen to get the disease. Put them in the same dorm and don't let them out. They will keep an eye on each other. They are safer playing football than not.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by John C. College students are the last people people I would want to be around if I was trying to be Covid free. They have their own set of rules when it comes to social distancing and I doubt they are wearing masks on the weekend. Teams on the other hand understand what could happen if they happen to get the disease. Put them in the same dorm and don't let them out. They will keep an eye on each other. They are safer playing football than not.

I lean towards this, but it’s a big thing to ask 18-22 year olds to stay in whatever bubble they set up. No problem to take classes online. I’ve heard UD professors were instructed to build the online version as a back up a month ago. I would guess both will be used to maximize enrollment and provide a safe environment when (not if) there are students who test positive. Living in the NBA bubble for 2 months versus at UD for 5-6 months ( pending when a vaccine is available ) is a big difference.

[hawkoooo]

I find the "player safety" argument, as it pertains to football, to be extremely weak. Would anyone on this board care to argue that Covid-19 is more dangerous than playing the game of football? More dangerous to a 65 year old? Maybe, but people that age are not playing tackle football. If player safety is the reason we can't have a football season, then there should never be another football season again.

Now, if you want to argue that the real danger lies with coaches, staff, and referees of an advanced age, I'm all ears.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Chris R Lots of rebuttals and waffling from players and coaches and conferences on their Covid competition decisions. Its going to be exceedingly difficult for any of these institutions that have locked down their campuses to e-learning, banning on-campus residents, and other social distancing actions to then justify the decision to play a contact sport like college football. If its not safe enough to sit in a lecture hall and learn Biology, why is it any safer to greco roman wrestle a bunch of strangers from another out-of-state university on a football field for three hours? The conferences and schools are more or less admitting that some students are more economically vital and are willing to prostitute those students because they earn the university a greater income -- even though the Biology student may be taking the exact same courses as the football student. But the schools and conferences understand as well that they are paying the football player to perform on the field and they want a financial ROI for spending $100,000 a year on that kid for tuition, books, housing, travel, training, medical, tutors, apparel, and promotion/marketing. For the kid with $100,000 in self-signed Stafford loans however that's paying his own way to the same classes, the university is far less financially invested to care nearly as much about that kid's safety or future. If its not safe enough to go to class (and Im not saying it is or isn't), it sure shouldnt be safe enough to play contact sports. Whats a school Prez or Chancellor going to say when asked why the doors cant remain open to educate someone, but they can remain open to run, pass, and kick a football? They have basically admitted big-time college athletics is nothing but a semi-pro endeavor where the classwork is ornamental at best and entirely irrelevant for too many. Those schools are making it clear which activity is driving the bus. The college environment is either safe to be open for business or it isnt. Its either safe for everyone or safe for no one. If colleges cannot ensure the same level of safety for the general student as they can the student athlete, they need to correct that imbalance before opening the doors at all. They speak repeatedly about sportsmanship and fair play. Perhaps they should live up to their ideals for all of their enrollment whether they carry footballs or textbooks.

Agree.

And the first test is coming up, with UNC's COVID outbreak and all kids told to "go away" and all learning moved online. So now we have a school from one of those full speed ahead P5 conferences hitting its first big snag...

[Flyerferd]

Originally Posted by Radar Agree. And the first test is coming up, with UNC's COVID outbreak and all kids told to "go away" and all learning moved online. So now we have a school from one of those full speed ahead P5 conferences hitting its first big snag...

I think Chapel Hill has made their decision clear. It’s not much of a test.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by Radar Agree. And the first test is coming up, with UNC's COVID outbreak and all kids told to "go away" and all learning moved online. So now we have a school from one of those full speed ahead P5 conferences hitting its first big snag...

Michigan St and Notre Dame announced today they are going to online only fall classes. Telling students to not come to campus. Not sure what ND football players are suppose to do.

It’s looking more like football this fall isn’t going to make it. With first games 2-3 weeks away, plenty of time for student parties to take a toll on these campuses. I’m believing the season won’t last more than 2 weeks, if at all.