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  #1  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:16 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
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St Louis win

Frustrated in the first half. Missed layups, turnovers, giving up offensive rebounds, bad foul calls. Was thinking about not watching the second half. Glad I stayed with it.

1. Kostas, great game. Played pretty decent D, 3 blocks, 5-6 from the floor, 2-4 from FT. He gave French some trouble with his height.
2. Landers, 13 points on 5-9 shooting, 8 rebounds, great highlight dunk on pass from Crutcher and clutch rebound and steal late in game
3. Crutcher, bad shooting night but 9 assists and 2 turnovers is a good night for PG.

Jordan Davis hits a few key baskets as well, and Josh was workman like, though not spectacular. UD out-rebounds SLU.

DD, ugh. 3-9 from the floor, missed layups, 3 TOs. In fact, 7 of the 12 TOs came from DD and Josh.

Westerfield sees the floor again, no X, no Crosby. We may not see them again, barring a miracle turnaround.

Great win, as all wins are. Rhody next, on the road...Well, who knows but maybe keep it reasonable?
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Frustrated in the first half. Missed layups, turnovers, giving up offensive rebounds, bad foul calls. Was thinking about not watching the second half. Glad I stayed with it.

1. Kostas, great game. Played pretty decent D, 3 blocks, 5-6 from the floor, 2-4 from FT. He gave French some trouble with his height.
2. Landers, 13 points on 5-9 shooting, 8 rebounds, great highlight dunk on pass from Crutcher and clutch rebound and steal late in game
3. Crutcher, bad shooting night but 9 assists and 2 turnovers is a good night for PG.

Jordan Davis hits a few key baskets as well, and Josh was workman like, though not spectacular. UD out-rebounds SLU.

DD, ugh. 3-9 from the floor, missed layups, 3 TOs. In fact, 7 of the 12 TOs came from DD and Josh.

Westerfield sees the floor again, no X, no Crosby. We may not see them again, barring a miracle turnaround.

Great win, as all wins are. Rhody next, on the road...Well, who knows but maybe keep it reasonable?
No X no Crosby- makes you wonder if that served as a teachable moment for Kostas?
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:22 PM
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Kostas needs to give up the dream of being a wing player. Playing the post like he did tonight is where he needs to be
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:23 PM
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Agreed. Kostas often tried to play with too much flash. He stuck to the fundamentals today and was a joy to watch!!!
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:28 PM
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Player of the game- Anthony Grant

For taking DD out at the 5:56 mark when we were down 2 and not putting him back in until 37 seconds were left in the game.
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:29 PM
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I've seen a few posts now where people say Josh was OK (workman like, made a few plays,etc.) tonight. Maybe its just me but I thought he was awful and frankly am starting to wonder if he's a bit of a cancer on this team. I feel like of all the guys that play he is the one who hasn't bought into AG as the coach. I know that's hard to say because his numbers are very good this year but I've seen him both live at the two games I've been to and on TV make faces and shake his head at AG multiple times this year. I might be wrong but he certainly didn't seem very engaged today, even after we made our run.
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Player of the game- Anthony Grant

For taking DD out at the 5:56 mark when we were down 2 and not putting him back in until 37 seconds were left in the game.
I’d give him POG honors for making the defensive switch to put Kostas on French. Dude was having his way with Josh, but once Kostas started covering him, the spigot got shut-off. It was a calculated risk, with the weight differential, but Josh just didn’t have enough length. Kostas’s length and agility made the difference in that matchup.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Kostas needs to give up the dream of being a wing player. Playing the post like he did tonight is where he needs to be
Dilly dilly!
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:55 PM
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I think DD and Josh are showing fatigue. They played a lot of minutes. I also thought St. Louis keyed on them defensively.

Normally, I don't complain about the officiating, but I thought St. Louis got away with a lot of pushing and shoving in the first half. UD responded very well in the second half.

Four other notes about St. Louis:
1. The used timeouts too often and had none left for the end of the game
2. They did a poor job of adjusting to Kostas
3. They scored 21 in the second half. The team missed a lot of shots early in the second half, then lost their composure on offense. They cam unglued.
4. French is a beast, but it turned into a double edge sword. He could score but no one else could. The other players tightened and could do nothing.

UDScott will cringe but I thought Anthony outcoached Ford. He called timeouts at the right time, had a good game plan and St. Louis made no adjustments for Kostas. Gutsy call to yank a struggling DD. Heaven help us...

The pass from Crutcher to Landers for the dunk needs to be an ESPN highlight. It is a season highlight for UD.

Kostas played the game of his career for UD. He matched up and St. Louis never tried to pull him away from the rim. His weakness is moving his feet. As a result, UD played man to man and he stayed low. He impacted more shots than he blocked. He could be a really good low post player is he can add some muscle.

If you said the Josh would score less than 10, DD would have a bad game, they would shoot a miserable percentage from 3 and score only 53, I would call for a blowout. Best defensive effort of the season.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:00 AM
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French would have had 40 if not for Kostas
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I've seen a few posts now where people say Josh was OK (workman like, made a few plays,etc.) tonight. Maybe its just me but I thought he was awful and frankly am starting to wonder if he's a bit of a cancer on this team. I feel like of all the guys that play he is the one who hasn't bought into AG as the coach. I know that's hard to say because his numbers are very good this year but I've seen him both live at the two games I've been to and on TV make faces and shake his head at AG multiple times this year. I might be wrong but he certainly didn't seem very engaged today, even after we made our run.
My impression is just the opposite. I don't think there is anyone happier to see Kostas step up than Josh. Normally, Josh has to be so careful not to foul that it takes away a lot of this game. He cannot be aggressive at all and he is often undersized against the opponent's 5 man. With Kostas in the game and playing well, Josh moves to the 4 spot and can now be more aggressive.

Last edited by ud69; 02-21-2018 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:09 AM
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I'm giddy about the win. Maybe the fair weather crew can come in and tell me why i shouldn't be happy about this win either.

Bunch of freaking losers.

Just a great, gutsy win. Finally getting guys to play like he wants.

Grant absolutely outcoached Ford. Was also a great crowd, got behind the team the entire second half, even after they got down 13.
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I've seen a few posts now where people say Josh was OK (workman like, made a few plays,etc.) tonight. Maybe its just me but I thought he was awful and frankly am starting to wonder if he's a bit of a cancer on this team. I feel like of all the guys that play he is the one who hasn't bought into AG as the coach. I know that's hard to say because his numbers are very good this year but I've seen him both live at the two games I've been to and on TV make faces and shake his head at AG multiple times this year. I might be wrong but he certainly didn't seem very engaged today, even after we made our run.
I have to disagree 100%.

Josh is playing much smarter basketball, avoiding contact at times to stay out of foul trouble, since the bench is so thin behind him. Smart move.

Tonight multiple times Josh took abuse, smacked in the head on two occasions, very physical game and he was on the short end frequently, I think only once was the foul called.

On top of that, Josh played 34 minutes in a gym that was hotter than hell.

Yes, this was not his best game by far, but no way do I see signs of Josh being the cancer on the team.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:18 AM
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This is the Kostas I've been waiting to see. Forgot the points, he changed the direction of his game with his defense. A 6'11 guy with long arms, athletic ability and that can run the court is a once a lifetime player here.

If he can just get defense and rebounding down, that's a huge asset to the team
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:22 AM
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SLU set the tone early...and it wasn't pretty. Physical...physical...physical...they pushed us around and had active hands. Really good defensive team.

Kostas POG and AG with really good decisions with personnel. You had to put length on 22. Dude killed it with the little jump hook and Josh, giving up length, couldn't guard that physical contact and shot. I had a feeling that adjustments would be made at the half and they were.

As mentioned above...Kostas just proved tonight...that if you buy and and do what you are asked, you will play...X and Crosby could learn a thing or 12.

I wasn't as frustrated with DD's numbers as much as I was with his absolute REFUSAL to get Kostas the ball in the paint when he was wide open. Kostas was putting in work and should have had another half dozen points if he got the **** ball.

Good come from behing win. Gritty game...good play by a handful of guys and should I say it...AG coached a coach's game and did a great job managing lineups and making adjustments.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:33 AM
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The best thing about tonight being a late game is this is also a school night and UDScott's mom made him go to bed early, so we have not had to hear him.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
The best thing about tonight being a late game is this is also a school night and UDScott's mom made him go to bed early, so we have not had to hear him.
I think he overdosed on hot pockets and pizza rolls.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I've seen a few posts now where people say Josh was OK (workman like, made a few plays,etc.) tonight. Maybe its just me but I thought he was awful and frankly am starting to wonder if he's a bit of a cancer on this team. I feel like of all the guys that play he is the one who hasn't bought into AG as the coach. I know that's hard to say because his numbers are very good this year but I've seen him both live at the two games I've been to and on TV make faces and shake his head at AG multiple times this year. I might be wrong but he certainly didn't seem very engaged today, even after we made our run.
If there’s any truth to this, josh would be riding the pine with X and Crosby.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:19 AM
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I’m going to defend Travis Ford. I stated above that he was out coached. Your options as a coach are limited when you have a very short bench. St. Louis did a very good job containing UDs two top scorers. But...

If I am Travis Ford and an assistant tells me that Kostas will beat St. Louis tonight, I say “ Yeah right. What has he done all year?” Anthony looks smart because Kostas played a great game that we have not seen this year. Why hasn’t Kostas done that all year? I think the big reason is matchups and the inability of St. Louis to pull Kostas away from the basket and or get him in foul trouble.

St.Louis lost its composure tonight. Travis burned through timeouts but had none left for end of game. When players come unglued is it the players or the coach? I see it happen often on the road especially with inexperienced players. UD has seen a lot of that this year.

My point in all this is coaches prep the team the best they can, but players and their execution still impact the game. When you have player limitations, such as weak bench, inexperienced players etc... coaching moves are crapshoots.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
SLU set the tone early...and it wasn't pretty. Physical...physical...physical...they pushed us around and had active hands. Really good defensive team.

Kostas POG and AG with really good decisions with personnel. You had to put length on 22. Dude killed it with the little jump hook and Josh, giving up length, couldn't guard that physical contact and shot. I had a feeling that adjustments would be made at the half and they were.

As mentioned above...Kostas just proved tonight...that if you buy and and do what you are asked, you will play...X and Crosby could learn a thing or 12.

I wasn't as frustrated with DD's numbers as much as I was with his absolute REFUSAL to get Kostas the ball in the paint when he was wide open. Kostas was putting in work and should have had another half dozen points if he got the **** ball.

Good come from behing win. Gritty game...good play by a handful of guys and should I say it...AG coached a coach's game and did a great job managing lineups and making adjustments.
Just rewatched the game. Baby D missed Kostas 4-5x when he had position 5 feet from the hoop. Yikes missed this until you pointed it out.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
The best thing about tonight being a late game is this is also a school night and UDScott's mom made him go to bed early, so we have not had to hear him.
Lol, was glad to finally see K play, hopefully this is not a one game wonder
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just rewatched the game. Baby D missed Kostas 4-5x when he had position 5 feet from the hoop. Yikes missed this until you pointed it out.
I said he same thing during the game at the arena. It was as if Darrell had never seen someone posting up before. You could tell Kostas was a bit frustrated as he was working his tail off to get position. Frankly DD has just been making some terrible decisions lately and it earned him time on the bench during the final 5 minutes.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
I said he same thing during the game at the arena. It was as if Darrell had never seen someone posting up before. You could tell Kostas was a bit frustrated as he was working his tail off to get position. Frankly DD has just been making some terrible decisions lately and it earned him time on the bench during the final 5 minutes.
IMO the benching was for a combo of turnovers (shocker) and refusal to throw into the post and trying that crazy dribble-drive-snap-your-head-back move of his. During one of the timeouts DD got royally reamed out by AG and I'm sure somewhere in that rant the words "your a senior for christsake" were used.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:29 AM
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The King was summoned to THE OSU for their Senior Night so I missed the 1st half...which was a blessing. More on Schottenstein vs UD Arena later...

Thanks to the 9:00 tipoff, the Queen and I were able to listen to My Flyers play the 2nd half and it was nothing short of entertaining. I'm a big Larry/Bucky fan and in the 20+ years they've been together I've never heard Larry's voice 'crack' during a broadcast, and last night his voice cracked 2X out of excitement in the last 5 minutes. He was gushing about Kostas this and Kostas that (and wasn't very happy with DDavis)...JDavis' 3 and Cunningham's dunk...his enthusiasm even got a few royal fist pumps out of me as I barreled down I-70 hoping to get back to the palatial estate in time to watch the last few minutes.

Nice win for My Flyers. Our younger players are getting all the experience they'll need to contend next season. It'll happen. Write it down and call me out in 365 days.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Lol, was glad to finally see K play, hopefully this is not a one game wonder
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
I said he same thing during the game at the arena. It was as if Darrell had never seen someone posting up before. You could tell Kostas was a bit frustrated as he was working his tail off to get position. Frankly DD has just been making some terrible decisions lately and it earned him time on the bench during the final 5 minutes.
I’m going to give DD a little of a pass here. Absolutely Kostas was in position to get the ball. And I believe DD sees it and can make the pass. tend to think he is hesitating because of AKs play so far this year including some very immature behavior that sent him to the bench. I can understand DDs reluctance to go to AK when UD was in a dog fight and making a comeback.

I think that changes now that AK showed he can control his anger and keep his head in the game and perform in AGs system to help the team. Time will tell but I believe DD gained some confidence in AKs game last night as did the fans and coaching staff.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just rewatched the game. Baby D missed Kostas 4-5x when he had position 5 feet from the hoop. Yikes missed this until you pointed it out.
DD had a bad night. Not to give a complete hall pass, but Kostas has been on the court so infrequently, that DD might not have been looking for him. Again, not a hall pass. I was surprised to see him post up. Given his past, I would be hesitant to throw it into him given the strength issue of the St. Louis players.

This is the first game this year, I saw Kostas actually post up effectively. Normally, he is pushed away from the basket. As physical as St. Louis played, I am surprised that did not muscle him around.

Having said that DD had a bad game last night. He looks a steps slower than he did earlier this year. We've seen all season, he has good games and bad games. Last night was a bad game.

Funny how your coach is a genius when players play well and a bum when they play poorly. Grant and Ford each took turns swapping those roles in the two meetings.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:04 AM
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Kostas was impressive under the basket at both ends. His best effort on rebounding was there for the first time this year. The other thing that was impressive was that Grant put Kostas near midcourt to help break the press. Several times it was Crutcher and Kostas by themselves, and with Kostas totally keeping his cool and passing or dribbling across the line. Great job by the freshman, and great coaching by Grant.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:39 AM
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No 3's attempted by Kostas was a sign of maturity. If this had been the OOC schedule, he would have been looking to hoist a couple up
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:41 AM
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Before we declare Kostas A10 player of the year and UD the favorite in the A10 tournament, I wan to point out that St. Louis was in control and they collapsed. Three causes:

1. They began to miss close shots early in second half and became frustrated and tentative.
2. Their offense became uni-dimensional. French. I strongly subscribe to the Phil Jackson theory. When one guy does all the scoring other four stand around on offense and then on defense. No second person could step up.
3. The UD Arena affect. Not a big crowd, but they got vocal. When St. Louis threw the ball deep into stands behind their bench on the cross court pass, I thought "Uh Oh St. Louis. You are in a lot of trouble". They were rattled and you see it. Ironically, UD did the exact same thing the previous play but the crowd picked them up. How many games over the years have we seen opponents collapse and fold in the second half?

UD played a great second half. They held St. Louis to 21 points in the second half but they had some help.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:45 AM
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That Hines guy is a walk on for them. They're forced to play but he's basically their Bobby Wherli. There was a point where he missed a bunnie on and turn around gave up a 3 on the other end that killed them
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:45 AM
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For the folks at the game how lowd was crowd after the slam by Landers
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
I’m going to defend Travis Ford. I stated above that he was out coached. Your options as a coach are limited when you have a very short bench. St. Louis did a very good job containing UDs two top scorers. But...

If I am Travis Ford and an assistant tells me that Kostas will beat St. Louis tonight, I say “ Yeah right. What has he done all year?” Anthony looks smart because Kostas played a great game that we have not seen this year. Why hasn’t Kostas done that all year? I think the big reason is matchups and the inability of St. Louis to pull Kostas away from the basket and or get him in foul trouble.

St.Louis lost its composure tonight. Travis burned through timeouts but had none left for end of game. When players come unglued is it the players or the coach? I see it happen often on the road especially with inexperienced players. UD has seen a lot of that this year.

My point in all this is coaches prep the team the best they can, but players and their execution still impact the game. When you have player limitations, such as weak bench, inexperienced players etc... coaching moves are crapshoots.
Sometimes all it takes is for the "light to come on". All the teaching in the world, the screaming, the pat on the rear, the reinforcement, etc. may seem like it doesn't amount to much at the time but if the player ain't ready then it doesn't matter.

For all we know, with Kostas being injured thru the summer and fall camp and losing his dad, the kid could have mentally been checked out for several months and simply was in a daze/depressed during months of practice and games. There's as much psychology involved in sports as there is physical prowess..
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
For the folks at the game how lowd was crowd after the slam by Landers
Very.

Even better was the slow hummm of anticipation that preceded Crutcher's flip and Trey's throwdown.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Before we declare Kostas A10 player of the year and UD the favorite in the A10 tournament, I wan to point out that St. Louis was in control and they collapsed. Three causes:

1. They began to miss close shots early in second half and became frustrated and tentative.
2. Their offense became uni-dimensional. French. I strongly subscribe to the Phil Jackson theory. When one guy does all the scoring other four stand around on offense and then on defense. No second person could step up.
3. The UD Arena affect. Not a big crowd, but they got vocal. When St. Louis threw the ball deep into stands behind their bench on the cross court pass, I thought "Uh Oh St. Louis. You are in a lot of trouble". They were rattled and you see it. Ironically, UD did the exact same thing the previous play but the crowd picked them up. How many games over the years have we seen opponents collapse and fold in the second half?

UD played a great second half. They held St. Louis to 21 points in the second half but they had some help.
Who exactly stated the kid was A10 POTY?? But he did have more to do with last nights win than plenty of other players combined and the reason had ZIP to do with real stats. He had the St Louis players' heads on swivels, last night looking around where Kostas would be prior to shots going up. He changed plenty of shot trajectories. He hustled his arse off, deflecting passes, keeping balls alive, etc..

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Old 02-21-2018, 10:17 AM
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A Most Satisfying Win

SLU is the most improved team in the A-10 this year. They are also the top defensive team in the A-10. As a program if they can overcome their off court problems they will become a contender for the top of the league in years to come. They are everything UD is not. They start with "D" and playing offense against them is like going to the dentist. The Flyers learned how to win last night and they did it at the defensive end of the floor. They entertained us with the best moment of the home season with the Crutcher to Landers dunk which created the most noise in UD arena this season. Crutcher to Landers was spontaneous combustion that blew the roof off of UD arena and gave the young Flyers confidence to win the game.
Kostas had his coming out party with great controlled play and tremendous energy off the bench. For those who are commiserating over the sub-par games of JC and DD understand this. They were the focal point of the best defensive team in the A-10. I'm sure they were frustrated. They will play better in the remaining games. Flyer fanatics should rally over the fact that UD adjusted well in the second half which they won by 11 points with their two top scorers neutralized and beat SLU at their own game with UD's best half of man-to-man defense this season. They also out-rebounded SLU for the second time this year. The young Flyers showed me something last night. They learned how to win with "D" and produced a great come from behind victory against a really good team.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:20 AM
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What a thrilling comeback! I was really pleased with KA. I hope this is a sign of things to come, and not a blip on the radar. I was also glad to see the team not just fold early in the second half when St. Louis came out and scored two quick buckets to make it a 13 point game. I think everything else has been said by this point. Onto Rhode Island!
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just rewatched the game. Baby D missed Kostas 4-5x when he had position 5 feet from the hoop. Yikes missed this until you pointed it out.
It is unbecoming of a senior to throw the ball to a freshman let alone a redshirt freshman. Where have ya'll been? Seriously this happens a lot and not just at UD. Years ago Brooks Hall mentioned something about it during an interview when he was recounting his freshman year.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Before we declare Kostas A10 player of the year and UD the favorite in the A10 tournament, I wan to point out that St. Louis was in control and they collapsed. Three causes:

3. The UD Arena affect. Not a big crowd, but they got vocal. When St. Louis threw the ball deep into stands behind their bench on the cross court pass, I thought "Uh Oh St. Louis. You are in a lot of trouble". They were rattled and you see it. Ironically, UD did the exact same thing the previous play but the crowd picked them up. How many games over the years have we seen opponents collapse and fold in the second half?

UD played a great second half. They held St. Louis to 21 points in the second half but they had some help.
That happened with 11 minutes left and StL up by 2. We never took the lead for another six minutes. If French was rattled by his pass into the stands, he got over it in a hurry, as he scored ten points after that.

How about our defense finally showed up in the second half, as did our offense.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Sometimes all it takes is for the "light to come on". All the teaching in the world, the screaming, the pat on the rear, the reinforcement, etc. may seem like it doesn't amount to much at the time but if the player ain't ready then it doesn't matter.

For all we know, with Kostas being injured thru the summer and fall camp and losing his dad, the kid could have mentally been checked out for several months and simply was in a daze/depressed during months of practice and games. There's as much psychology involved in sports as there is physical prowess..
To build on this, I wonder if there's some acceptance now of what his skill his set as a player. Earlier in the year he seemed to be trying to be more a SF/Wing player versus a guy who would bang down low.

It's possible he's modeled his game after his big bro as big guard versus trying to be himself.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:38 AM
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Another thing to consider. If he came in here as Kostas Jones would he not have spent his whole career as a post guy without thinking about being a wing
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
The best thing about tonight being a late game is this is also a school night and UDScott's mom made him go to bed early, so we have not had to hear him.
bam! ouch...)
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Before we declare Kostas A10 player of the year and UD the favorite in the A10 tournament, I wan to point out that St. Louis was in control and they collapsed. Three causes:

1. They began to miss close shots early in second half and became frustrated and tentative.
2. Their offense became uni-dimensional. French. I strongly subscribe to the Phil Jackson theory. When one guy does all the scoring other four stand around on offense and then on defense. No second person could step up.
3. The UD Arena affect. Not a big crowd, but they got vocal. When St. Louis threw the ball deep into stands behind their bench on the cross court pass, I thought "Uh Oh St. Louis. You are in a lot of trouble". They were rattled and you see it. Ironically, UD did the exact same thing the previous play but the crowd picked them up. How many games over the years have we seen opponents collapse and fold in the second half?

UD played a great second half. They held St. Louis to 21 points in the second half but they had some help.
Picture of STF at home:

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Old 02-21-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Lol, was glad to finally see K play, hopefully this is not a one game wonder
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props to UD Scott - nice response right there, all meant in fun..) a really good thought by UD Scott also... we just hope this is something that will continue and not a one game wonder, true words right there... maybe, just maybe, he has turned a corner.. we'll see... great comeback, defense - for now - outstanding job by the Flyers....
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
props to UD Scott - nice response right there, all meant in fun..) a really good thought by UD Scott also... we just hope this is something that will continue and not a one game wonder, true words right there... maybe, just maybe, he has turned a corner.. we'll see... great comeback, defense - for now - outstanding job by the Flyers....
Brownoser, is he your brother?
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Just rewatched the game. Baby D missed Kostas 4-5x when he had position 5 feet from the hoop. Yikes missed this until you pointed it out.
Was probably waiving him up to set a ball screen instead.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Brownoser, is he your brother?
lol!! nope, but he showed class and a sense of humor in his response, look at his post - he got several props, not just from me....) he deserves props, peeps!...)
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:34 AM
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I'm an out of towner (Greensboro, NC) - worked the 3rd shift with extra hours last night and was unable to keep tabs of the game.. When I got home, I went to the game thread and read it from the first entry to the last.. I am so thankful for those game threads, I can somewhat experience the game through the messages.. it must of been incredible..)

all I can say is the excitement in the comeback clearly shows up in the messages.. what a thrilling 2nd half comeback... I have to see that Crutch - Trey pass and dunk, haven't seen it yet.. if anyone has it, would love to see it..)

great job Flyers!
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:46 AM
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Crutcher to Trey

https://twitter.com/A10Talk/status/966150542409043969

some good pics
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/sp...EeiEAe1N_o68LA

Last edited by Lifelong Flyer Fan; 02-21-2018 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
I'm an out of towner (Greensboro, NC) - worked the 3rd shift with extra hours last night and was unable to keep tabs of the game.. When I got home, I went to the game thread and read it from the first entry to the last.. I am so thankful for those game threads, I can somewhat experience the game through the messages.. it must of been incredible..)

all I can say is the excitement in the comeback clearly shows up in the messages.. what a thrilling 2nd half comeback... I have to see that Crutch - Trey pass and dunk, haven't seen it yet.. if anyone has it, would love to see it..)

great job Flyers!
i think you can watch a replay on watchESPN.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:48 AM
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Was able to attend my first Flyers game in quite some time last night.

French was a bulldog for St Louis, so it was very nice to see Kostas be physical with him and not back down. If Kostas can keep up that kind of physical play and not get worn down, he's going to be a force sooner rather than later. Our guards also need to work on feeding him down low. There aren't going to be too many people that he can't take one on one around the basket as long as he can hold his ground, and if they double down on him it's going to create some open 3 point shots. In general I'd like to see our offense feed the ball inside more and create more of an inside out game rather than passing it around the perimeter hoping for an open shot or for DD or Trey to drive and hope something opens up.

Darrell Davis was just atrocious last night. I find it hard to believe that only 3 TO were attributed to him. I swear he had 3 in a 4 possession stretch in the first half. Cunningham seems to have issues catching a quick pass inside unless it hits him right in the chest as well. I get the reluctance to pass it inside when this is the result, but just passing it around the perimeter isn't the answer either.

Crutcher deservers all the superlatives being said about him. Careful with the ball but still aggressive. Will take the open shot, creates for others, moves the ball around. My only qualm is he should pass it inside more, but that will come with trust. CAG found a gem.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:49 AM
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My two favorite lines:

Forward Josh Cunningham ran to the locker room after the Dayton Flyers beat Saint Louis 53-50 and shouted, “Kostas came up big!”

“My job was to come in and play hard,” Antetokounmpo said. “I came in and played as hard as I can. It helped. I’m happy.”
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Kostas was impressive under the basket at both ends. His best effort on rebounding was there for the first time this year. The other thing that was impressive was that Grant put Kostas near midcourt to help break the press. Several times it was Crutcher and Kostas by themselves, and with Kostas totally keeping his cool and passing or dribbling across the line. Great job by the freshman, and great coaching by Grant.
What could be another defining moment came with under a minute to play and we were up 3 and Kostas was called for a foul (of course there was zero contact but that's beside the point). He immediately threw his arms up in disbelief and started to approach the ref when Trey intercepted him with a bear hug, avoiding a potential confrontation/technical. As they lined up for the FT's Kostas then (peacefully) asked the ref for an explanation. Let's hope he's learning...
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Crutcher to Trey

https://twitter.com/A10Talk/status/966150542409043969

some good pics
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/sp...EeiEAe1N_o68LA
And that angle of the dunk does not do it justice.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
props to UD Scott - nice response right there, all meant in fun..) a really good thought by UD Scott also... we just hope this is something that will continue and not a one game wonder, true words right there... maybe, just maybe, he has turned a corner.. we'll see... great comeback, defense - for now - outstanding job by the Flyers....
One thing about Kostas that I didn't see mentioned is that he is maturing emotionally as well. In the first Duquesne game he got a technical foul for woofing at #0 Robinson after a dunk but didn't see any of that against St. Louis.

I did notice the other night when he got called for a foul that he didn't agree with and he wanted to start challenging the ref Trey Landers got him aside and told him to cool down.

I know Trey had a couple of bad calls go against himself that the referees really blew and he knows how to keep his cool and I am happy he is continuing to take the leadership role and pulled Kostas aside for a teaching moment.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
What could be another defining moment came with under a minute to play and we were up 3 and Kostas was called for a foul (of course there was zero contact but that's beside the point). He immediately threw his arms up in disbelief and started to approach the ref when Trey intercepted him with a bear hug, avoiding a potential confrontation/technical. As they lined up for the FT's Kostas then (peacefully) asked the ref for an explanation. Let's hope he's learning...

IMHO I think early on Kostas' outbursts during this high intensity physical sports was due to dealing with the lost of his father on top of already having to deal with being away from his family (recall they are really close) and still learning the intricacies of the English language. Recall this is a young fella who within a short span has had to deal with a lot while being away from home. I figure with his family and his extended support at UD he will continue to grow and be huge contributor.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:16 PM
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I play hoops at the Y on Tuesday nights, so I DVRed the SLU game. FF thru all of the bad possessions and replay the highlights. Lots less agita this way. I highly recommend it!
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Crutcher to Trey

https://twitter.com/A10Talk/status/966150542409043969

some good pics
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/sp...EeiEAe1N_o68LA
crazy good pass and dunk. In stride!
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:40 PM
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I missed the game but the one thing that would continue to make me happy now that we're 28 games into the season is a little more consistency. OK, if you're not going to play Crosby, then leave him on the bench and bring in a great attitude guy like Westerfield who is happy just to contribute 3 minutes of hustle. Leave XW there on the bench if that's the way it's going to be, don't play him 15 minutes today and 0 tomorrow. Is KA going to play? Then let's give him at least 10 minutes every game. If he fouls out in 10 minutes so be it.

I understand playing the guys who played hardest in practice, but let's make it a moving average instead of just how they performed yesterday. Who knows what's actually going on in the locker room but I hope AG can create the atmosphere that leads to this stability from here on out.

I notice over the last ~5 games this consistency is starting to show up in minutes, I hope it's starting to turn into some additional chemistry on the court.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I notice over the last ~5 games this consistency is starting to show up in minutes, I hope it's starting to turn into some additional chemistry on the court.
The chemistry between the 5 on the court who played most of the final 6 minutes could not have been any better. 3 freshmen, 1 soph, and 1 junior. Add some bench depth next year and I think we will be just fine.
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
The chemistry between the 5 on the court who played most of the final 6 minutes could not have been any better. 3 freshmen, 1 soph, and 1 junior. Add some bench depth next year and I think we will be just fine.
Was that next year's starting 5?
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:01 PM
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Kostas, Cunningham, Landers, Jordan Davis, and Crutcher. Mikesell first big off the bench and Cohill first wing off bench. Juco next off bench.

Cohill could replace Kostas in starting line-up but need Kostas for defense.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Kostas, Cunningham, Landers, Jordan Davis, and Crutcher. Mikesell first big off the bench and Cohill first wing off bench. Juco next off bench.

Cohill could replace Kostas in starting line-up but need Kostas for defense.
Who knows what wonders the grad transfer market will bring
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I've seen a few posts now where people say Josh was OK (workman like, made a few plays,etc.) tonight. Maybe its just me but I thought he was awful and frankly am starting to wonder if he's a bit of a cancer on this team. I feel like of all the guys that play he is the one who hasn't bought into AG as the coach. I know that's hard to say because his numbers are very good this year but I've seen him both live at the two games I've been to and on TV make faces and shake his head at AG multiple times this year. I might be wrong but he certainly didn't seem very engaged today, even after we made our run.
St. Louis did a heck of a job on Josh. It was clearly their strategy to double team him and make other players beat them. With that being said, I think any team who watches video on that game is going to know that playing us very physically is going to help them. I thought we responded well at the end but took some time to figure out.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:57 PM
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Toppin needs to be included in next year's rotation. So, Kostas, Crutcher, Davis, Landers, and JC are the starting 5. Cohill, Mikesell, Toppin, and Svoboda give us more depth than this year. Of course, this assumes that XW and JC aren't on the team. If XW comes back, we go 10 deep. That's an encouraging change!
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:09 PM
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Didn’t we just get a commitment from a 21-24 year old Spanish speaking crazy good athlete....he’s not plucking splinters without a fight
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:16 PM
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Please consider that both teams did not play very well. Both teams showed why they are probably not post season candidates. Poor St. Louis fans for missing four players off the squad that were counted on for so much. In the end, Dayton seemed to have fresher legs and the game suddenly looked easy for them in the win. Perhaps, against a better team than SLU (reduced roster); Dayton would not have been so fortunate. That is realism. But as a Flyer faithful, a win is a win. I would not read too much into any progress or trend in this win. We are what we are. We need to get PT for players for next year. Clearly, certain players are not in Grant’s forecast for next year.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post

I did notice the other night when he got called for a foul that he didn't agree with and he wanted to start challenging the ref Trey Landers got him aside and told him to cool down.

I know Trey had a couple of bad calls go against himself that the referees really blew and he knows how to keep his cool and I am happy he is continuing to take the leadership role and pulled Kostas aside for a teaching moment.
As a SOPHOMORE
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:49 PM
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Not sure a barely pull it out win over a depleted SLU team is the mark of a banner club, but a win is a win. Enjoy the spoils for a few days.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:18 PM
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You mean the same St. Louis team that is ahead of us in the standings. Ok.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
You mean the same St. Louis team that is ahead of us in the standings. Ok.
And the team that was 8-6 and in 4th place in the A-10. Pretty good win. We have now beaten 4 of the top 5 teams in the A-10. I know we have lost to some lower place teams. Just saying we have some pretty good wins. If a couple bounces went our way in the UMass games, we could be 15-12 and 9-6.

Last edited by longtimefan; 02-21-2018 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And the team that was 8-6 and in 4th place in the A-10. Pretty good win. We have now beaten 4 of the top 5 teams in the A-10. I know we have lost to some lower place teams. Just saying we have some pretty good wins. If a couple bounces went our way in the UMass games, we could be 15-12 and 9-6.
And on top of that, reverse the VCU OT loss, and that’s 16-11/10-5, which wouldn’t be too shabby at all, considering all the circumstances.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And the team that was 8-6 and in 4th place in the A-10. Pretty good win. We have now beaten 4 of the top 5 teams in the A-10. I know we have lost to some lower place teams. Just saying we have some pretty good wins. If a couple bounces went our way in the UMass games, we could be 15-12 and 9-6.
I rarely, if ever, complain about a win, so I will not throw shade on the Fordham and SLU wins. Beating any d1 team is hard and should not discounted. Winning is hard. A win is a win is a win.

But, only one of those wins, SBU, was what would be considered a noteworthy win. And one of SBU's best players was not at his best in that game.

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
And on top of that, reverse the VCU OT loss, and that’s 16-11/10-5, which wouldn’t be too shabby at all, considering all the circumstances.
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I disagree, I think 16-11, 10-5, is shabby considering the circumstances, we should be doing better than that.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I rarely, if ever, complain about a win, so I will not throw shade on the Fordham and SLU wins. Beating any d1 team is hard and should not discounted. Winning is hard. A win is a win is a win.

But, only one of those wins, SBU, was what would be considered a noteworthy win. And one of SBU's best players was not at his best in that game.



I disagree, I think 16-11, 10-5, is shabby considering the circumstances, we should be doing better than that.
Besides being a limited team as far as having actual talent, as it is, and not having 6 guys even on the floor from last year and having 2 other players that played alot last season that are now either not good enough or having just mailed it in and not playing at all, plenty of UD players actually playing this season have "not been at their best in many many games".
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:27 AM
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Responding to him is a waste of time. He is tone deaf.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:30 AM
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Manure aside, StL is a very good defensive team that has been winning a bunch of games recently. What made this a really good win is that we got physically man handled by them in StL and in the first half last night. Instead of folding our tents, like in the past, we pushed back hard, and became the aggressor. This team took a big grow up step last night. Yes, a big win!
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post

But, only one of those wins, SBU, was what would be considered a noteworthy win. And one of SBU's best players was not at his best in that game.
I keep hearing this about Adams. Was there ever anything official that said he was not 100% that game or is this speculation because he had a bad game. Is there any chance that we played well that night and were the reason he didn't play well?
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
But, only one of those wins, SBU, was what would be considered a noteworthy win. And one of SBU's best players was not at his best in that game.
We beat the living sh!t out of VCU. That was pretty dadgum noteworthy. I'll remember that game for the rest of my life.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
We beat the living sh!t out of VCU. That was pretty dadgum noteworthy. I'll remember that game for the rest of my life.
They are not even a top 100 team this year. Yeah, it was very nice beating them, but are we now hanging our hat on beating #135 at UD Arena? Heck, that is basically a buy game.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:35 PM
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without Josh we'd have about three wins this year.>

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I have to disagree 100%.

Josh is playing much smarter basketball, avoiding contact at times to stay out of foul trouble, since the bench is so thin behind him. Smart move.

Tonight multiple times Josh took abuse, smacked in the head on two occasions, very physical game and he was on the short end frequently, I think only once was the foul called.

On top of that, Josh played 34 minutes in a gym that was hotter than hell.

Yes, this was not his best game by far, but no way do I see signs of Josh being the cancer on the team.
He's our best player and MVP. Leading rebounder, leading scorer in average and total, 65%FG % The focus of opponents defense! We'd be laughing stock without him. Cancer????- LMFAO!!!
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
They are not even a top 100 team this year. Yeah, it was very nice beating them, but are we now hanging our hat on beating #135 at UD Arena? Heck, that is basically a buy game.
They are basically our equal this year. I don't know if you've looked at the RPI, but we're right there in the 120's or something.

They are our biggest rival in the league, so sure it meant something to me.

Again, I'm not sure what you want me to say. I got excited about many of our wins this year. I'm a fan. It's what most of us do. At least the ones that aren't jaded and cynical.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Manure aside, StL is a very good defensive team that has been winning a bunch of games recently. What made this a really good win is that we got physically man handled by them in StL and in the first half last night. Instead of folding our tents, like in the past, we pushed back hard, and became the aggressor. This team took a big grow up step last night. Yes, a big win!
Har d to imagine this SLU team WITH the 3 or 4 suspended players. They'd probably be second in the A10!!!
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I keep hearing this about Adams. Was there ever anything official that said he was not 100% that game or is this speculation because he had a bad game. Is there any chance that we played well that night and were the reason he didn't play well?
CT Flyer: Adams looked sick to me that night. But, i will defer to folks who had the realluy great seats.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:31 PM
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The way this season has played out and the up - down play of the team ... well I am surprised at any win (and happy too), resigned on any loss (unless it is like the one at GM, then Pi$$ed off).

I'll take the win ...

Any player who hasn't necessarily 'showed up' over the last month then generates a 'one off' performance still can't be considered a trusted performer not just yet anyways.

Here's hoping the close out on this year by these players is a good experience for both them and the fans.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:32 PM
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Adams missed the first six games of the season with an ankle injury and played with a slight limp Wednesday.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...Q1aTXWRfEGL8M/
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Adams missed the first six games of the season with an ankle injury and played with a slight limp Wednesday.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...Q1aTXWRfEGL8M/
Maybe so but he played all 40 minutes and his own school's website said "Jaylen Adams finished with 15 points and seven assists but rarely found free space, going just 1-3 from long range." He had already been back for seven games at that point so it just doesn't seem that was the reason. I also watched the game on TV and I don't recall the announcers ever saying once he wasn't at 100%. Call me a homer but I'll chalk it up to the fact that we played great D on him that night, but I've been wrong before.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Har d to imagine this SLU team WITH the 3 or 4 suspended players. They'd probably be second in the A10!!!
Likely top 3...from 12th place to top 3 in 2 years under Travis Ford.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Maybe so but he played all 40 minutes and his own school's website said "Jaylen Adams finished with 15 points and seven assists but rarely found free space, going just 1-3 from long range." He had already been back for seven games at that point so it just doesn't seem that was the reason. I also watched the game on TV and I don't recall the announcers ever saying once he wasn't at 100%. Call me a homer but I'll chalk it up to the fact that we played great D on him that night, but I've been wrong before.
I'll go with the other posters, and say, he wasn't 100% still. Adams doesn't need open space, and was very hesitant in shooting. There were numerous times when he got the ball, and I assumed it was going to be a shot, and he instead dribbled to the top of the key. I know SBU's site said "rarely found free space", but I think it was more, he wasn't ready to take shots. He was open in 3pt land numerous times, and just didn't take them.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
I'll go with the other posters, and say, he wasn't 100% still. Adams doesn't need open space, and was very hesitant in shooting. There were numerous times when he got the ball, and I assumed it was going to be a shot, and he instead dribbled to the top of the key. I know SBU's site said "rarely found free space", but I think it was more, he wasn't ready to take shots. He was open in 3pt land numerous times, and just didn't take them.
Where are the stats to prove this!! Come on Figgie you are better than that.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:30 PM
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Random, but all year I've been asking "how did we miss on Javon Bess!?!?!!!" He recruited him hard when he was a senior in Columbus. Kid was elite player. Bad miss IMO.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_PAC_2006 View Post
Random, but all year I've been asking "how did we miss on Javon Bess!?!?!!!" He recruited him hard when he was a senior in Columbus. Kid was elite player. Bad miss IMO.
We stole DD from MSU, izzo flexed his arm a week later offered a three star Bess....that’s how.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sitdowndigger View Post
We stole DD from MSU, izzo flexed his arm a week later offered a three star Bess....that’s how.
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Let me clarify, how did we not swoop him up when he decided to transfer out of MSU?
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_PAC_2006 View Post
Let me clarify, how did we not swoop him up when he decided to transfer out of MSU?
Maybe Bess decided he didn't want to go to UD - twice.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I disagree, I think 16-11, 10-5, is shabby considering the circumstances, we should be doing better than that.
If you truly believe that 16-11 and 10-5 would be shabby this season considering we lost four starters, two top reserves, etc, etc, then it seems you are incapable of having a reasonable discussion on the matter. I think any UD fan (except you, apparently) would be happy to have that record right now considering the circumstances we are in.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_PAC_2006 View Post
Let me clarify, how did we not swoop him up when he decided to transfer out of MSU?
He was average at best at State. Further Archie is no sloppy second

....Not that we couldn’t use Bess this year especially
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_PAC_2006 View Post
Let me clarify, how did we not swoop him up when he decided to transfer out of MSU?
I think Archie had some bigger plays in the transfer market.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I disagree, I think 16-11, 10-5, is shabby considering the circumstances, we should be doing better than that.
Would VCU, Xavier or Butler be happy to be under .500 after their numerous coaching changes?

When Wichita St. lost 3 starting guards who had been multi year starters such Fred Van Vleet and Ron Baker (to the NBA) would the expectation there to be under .500?
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Would VCU, Xavier or Butler be happy to be under .500 after their numerous coaching changes?

When Wichita St. lost 3 starting guards who had been multi year starters such Fred Van Vleet and Ron Baker (to the NBA) would the expectation there to be under .500?
Who here is happy? I don't think any Flyer fan is happy. We are not at the level of those other programs (well maybe VCU). It is after run of 4 NCAAT appearances and 4 graduating starters, a drop off was expected. Maybe not to the level that has happened but still a drop off. Add the coaching change (which may be the cause of XW's issues), Mikesell, a net loss of one recruit, and many fans understand it - they are not at all happy but they understand it.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Would VCU, Xavier or Butler be happy to be under .500 after their numerous coaching changes?

When Wichita St. lost 3 starting guards who had been multi year starters such Fred Van Vleet and Ron Baker (to the NBA) would the expectation there to be under .500?
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Who here is happy? I don't think any Flyer fan is happy. We are not at the level of those other programs (well maybe VCU). It is after run of 4 NCAAT appearances and 4 graduating starters, a drop off was expected. Maybe not to the level that has happened but still a drop off. Add the coaching change (which may be the cause of XW's issues), Mikesell, a net loss of one recruit, and many fans understand it - they are not at all happy but they understand it.
I don't even understand OSU Flyer's post. We weren't talking about being happy being under .500. We were talking about being happy if we were 16-11, 10-5.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Would VCU, Xavier or Butler be happy to be under .500 after their numerous coaching changes?

When Wichita St. lost 3 starting guards who had been multi year starters such Fred Van Vleet and Ron Baker (to the NBA) would the expectation there to be under .500?
Those other programs are smart enough not to construct their roster in such a way that they essentially lose every starter from one season to the next.
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