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11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
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Apparently, we were in on a 6-6 small forward from Houston who ended up committing to Oregon.
http://coast2coastrecruiting.net/201...ins-the-ducks/
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11-07-2011, 07:44 PM
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Somebody from UD did some hard work to get us on that list. We are the real "odd duck" in that grouping. The Ducks in the west trumped the duck in the east.
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11-07-2011, 09:41 PM
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Hard work out West
Recruiting Dotson has Tom Ostrom's name all over that effort. Too bad... would have been a great recruit.
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11-08-2011, 07:23 PM
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poster was partially correct in another thread. L Henton, aka Buckets had 12 points 9 rebounds one game for Providence.
14 points in the first exhibition. Interesting, this guy can get to the "___________" Fill in the Blank.
let's get Scott now!!!!!
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11-10-2011, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
What I hear is UD no longer thinks they are in the hunt for Hawkins and haven't been for almost a month. Right now it looks like they are done with November signing period and are turning to transfers and class of 2013.
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Initial signing day in Nov 9. Three weeks from Wednesday. And unlike spring, most kids signing in November do so on the first two days.
Giving up may not be the right word, but all signs around the edges is they are largely shifting efforts. Practice has started, fewer visits, less chatter, open talk of holding one or two scholarships - lower odds. Not impossible, but becoming improbable.
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Any word on why UD was able to get Scott? From your previous posts you were really leaning towards UD not landing anybody in the fall signing period. Did they have a better feel for whether he would qualify or not?
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11-10-2011, 08:18 AM
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The general consensus was Scott was a spring commit if he qualified. I'm glad I was wrong about no more commits in the November period.
Last edited by UDDoug; 11-10-2011 at 08:20 AM..
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11-10-2011, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Any word on why UD was able to get Scott? From your previous posts you were really leaning towards UD not landing anybody in the fall signing period. Did they have a better feel for whether he would qualify or not?
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At this point Arch had nothing to lose. If he doesn't qualify, we pocket the scholarship.
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11-10-2011, 10:00 AM
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Ok, so how does this work? If he doesn't qualify, then he has to sit out the 2012-2013 season, and he counts against the 13 scholarship limit for the 2012-2013 season? Or maybe he decides to go to prep school for a year next year to get qualified before he comes to UD? And I guess the same thing can be said about Thomas also.
Last edited by ud2; 11-10-2011 at 10:04 AM..
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11-10-2011, 03:10 PM
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Yes on both counts.
A recruit can either be a partial qualifier or a nonqualifier. Combinations of test scores and core course grades determine if a recruit qualifies (and can play as a freshman), is a partial qualifier (and can receive a scholarship, practice, but not play) or is a nonqualifier (and can't receive a scholarship, can't practice and can't play). The rules could have changed a little around that, but that's pretty much what it was like.
If the recruit is a partial qualifier, pretty sure they count against the 13 limit. If they are a nonqualifier they do not. I don't know what the Big East rules on partial and nonqualifiers are, but some conferences do not permit members to accept partial and nonqualifiers. Surprisingly the SEC has been one of those - if you don't qualify you don't get in. In some cases that's why their are decommits from BCS programs.
So, if one of UD's recruits sign an LOI and then becomes a nonqualifier they: 1) pay their own way at UD and sit out for a year 2) go somewhere else and sit out for a year due to costs (this is what the big kid at Xavier did) or 3) go to prep school for a year to try and get the necessary grades and scores to qualify (this is what Tony Stanley did). Under either 2) or 3) the national letter of intent is meaningless, essentially recruitment is reopened.
Based on the fact neither Scott or Thomas could take official visits prior to the last ACT exam, my guess is if nothing changed they would be nonqualifiers. Partials generally have a high enough score to take officials, but not the right combination of score and grades/courses. I haven't heard anything on whether either are likely to qualify or not, or if their likelihood of qualifying as anything to do with why they decommitted.
I'm in favor of UD pursuing kids who may not qualify - as long as they are convinced the recruit wants to do the class work. Xavier has done pretty well with partial and nonqualifiers over the years - particulalrly partial qualifiers. They've done pretty well challenging status and getting the NCAA Clearinghouse to apply partial qualifier status too. Anectodotal evidence - and some comments I've heard - indicates UD has been too quick to walk away from partial and nonqualifiers. Scott and Holland are the only ones I can recall in the past 15 years. Stanley wasn't admitted until he qualified (either at his or the school's insistence, or both).
Last edited by UDDoug; 11-10-2011 at 03:16 PM..
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11-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Got a verbal commit
Rumor is Scott.
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11-11-2011, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by funeralplanner
Rumor is Scott.
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uhh...what? lol
also according to dayton mens basketball twitter jevon signed his NLI
Last edited by FlyerFanatic08; 11-11-2011 at 07:33 PM..
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11-11-2011, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by funeralplanner
Rumor is Scott.
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You can bury this one!
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11-14-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Yes on both counts.
A recruit can either be a partial qualifier or a nonqualifier. Combinations of test scores and core course grades determine if a recruit qualifies (and can play as a freshman), is a partial qualifier (and can receive a scholarship, practice, but not play) or is a nonqualifier (and can't receive a scholarship, can't practice and can't play). The rules could have changed a little around that, but that's pretty much what it was like.
If the recruit is a partial qualifier, pretty sure they count against the 13 limit. If they are a nonqualifier they do not. I don't know what the Big East rules on partial and nonqualifiers are, but some conferences do not permit members to accept partial and nonqualifiers. Surprisingly the SEC has been one of those - if you don't qualify you don't get in. In some cases that's why their are decommits from BCS programs.
So, if one of UD's recruits sign an LOI and then becomes a nonqualifier they: 1) pay their own way at UD and sit out for a year 2) go somewhere else and sit out for a year due to costs (this is what the big kid at Xavier did) or 3) go to prep school for a year to try and get the necessary grades and scores to qualify (this is what Tony Stanley did). Under either 2) or 3) the national letter of intent is meaningless, essentially recruitment is reopened.
Based on the fact neither Scott or Thomas could take official visits prior to the last ACT exam, my guess is if nothing changed they would be nonqualifiers. Partials generally have a high enough score to take officials, but not the right combination of score and grades/courses. I haven't heard anything on whether either are likely to qualify or not, or if their likelihood of qualifying as anything to do with why they decommitted.
I'm in favor of UD pursuing kids who may not qualify - as long as they are convinced the recruit wants to do the class work. Xavier has done pretty well with partial and nonqualifiers over the years - particulalrly partial qualifiers. They've done pretty well challenging status and getting the NCAA Clearinghouse to apply partial qualifier status too. Anectodotal evidence - and some comments I've heard - indicates UD has been too quick to walk away from partial and nonqualifiers. Scott and Holland are the only ones I can recall in the past 15 years. Stanley wasn't admitted until he qualified (either at his or the school's insistence, or both).
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Great post. Sim Bhullar was a non qualifier at Xavier and instead chose New Mexico State due to the lower cost of tuition. I'm also in favor of taking players who may not qualify so long as they are commmitted to doing the class work.
Here is a chart that explains what combination of grades and test scores you have to have in order to be a qualifier or partial qualifier. Not sure if that chart is current according to today's requirements.
http://www.ath.umich.edu/compliance/clearinghouse/
Last edited by ud2; 11-14-2011 at 01:34 PM..
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11-16-2011, 01:08 PM
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deontae hawkins signed with wichita state according to jeff borzello of cbssports
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11-16-2011, 03:01 PM
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Hope he enjoys it out on the prairie. It can be pretty at times.
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11-18-2011, 08:04 PM
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looks like archie and co. still working hard.. just spotted this:
http://eye-on-college-basketball-rec...84776/33378273
"Missouri, Washington, Nebraska and Dayton are all showing interest to the 6-foot-6 small forward from Little Rock, Ark."
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11-18-2011, 08:55 PM
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I know we have 2 schollies left, but Arch said willing to pocket one. This guy may be really good, but we really need a shooting guard in the 2012 class. Would Arch use both schollies?
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11-19-2011, 08:20 AM
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interesting. this guy has to be good and and athlete for missouri and washington to be looking.
hmmmm
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11-19-2011, 10:28 AM
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yet another article from jeff borzello mentioning a name linked to dayton:
http://eye-on-college-basketball-rec...84776/33376168
"In terms of recruiting, Taylor hasn’t thought much about it just yet. Right now, Arkansas, Cincinnati and Dayton are showing interest.
He wants to take a trip to Cincinnati.
“I like the Big East style of basketball,” Taylor said. “Big East and Big Ten.”
He currently has no timetable for a commitment."
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11-19-2011, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
looks like archie and co. still working hard.. just spotted this:
http://eye-on-college-basketball-rec...84776/33378273
"Missouri, Washington, Nebraska and Dayton are all showing interest to the 6-foot-6 small forward from Little Rock, Ark."
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Aaron Ross was an Arkansas recruit who committed to Ostrom and Pelphrey as a freshman in high school. You can talk about how Archie's staff got a late start on recruiting in many cases, but not on this kid. With Ostrom leading his recruitment, I think UD has to be the favorite over those other programs.
Many years ago I believe UD passed on Ron Harper who had a learning disability. That mistake shouldn't repeat itself. This is a big-time 4-Star recruit who would be the biggest get of his class. Academics shouldn't be an issue as it sounds like after prep school, Ross is on track to succeed despite his learning disability. Go get him Ostrom and Archie!
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...163/aaron-ross
Last edited by DallasFlyer; 11-19-2011 at 05:11 PM..
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11-19-2011, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CraSch
I know we have 2 schollies left, but Arch said willing to pocket one. This guy may be really good, but we really need a shooting guard in the 2012 class. Would Arch use both schollies?
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We need to take a shooting guard but if a Top 100 recruit like Aaron Ross (a small forward) wants to come on board, you take him, sign a shooting guard, and if there's no open scholly for a transfer, so be it.
Ranked 69th best player nationally: http://www.maxpreps.com/basketball-r...p-recruits.htm
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11-19-2011, 05:42 PM
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u can't argue with the last two posts. If the guy is that highly ranked, you take him
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11-19-2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
We need to take a shooting guard but if a Top 100 recruit like Aaron Ross (a small forward) wants to come on board, you take him, sign a shooting guard, and if there's no open scholly for a transfer, so be it.
Ranked 69th best player nationally: http://www.maxpreps.com/basketball-r...p-recruits.htm
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Thanks. Didn't know he was ranked that high. Definitely like to get a commitment from him.
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11-19-2011, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
We need to take a shooting guard but if a Top 100 recruit like Aaron Ross (a small forward) wants to come on board, you take him, sign a shooting guard, and if there's no open scholly for a transfer, so be it.
Ranked 69th best player nationally: http://www.maxpreps.com/basketball-r...p-recruits.htm
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Just my opinion but I think AM will have another scholarship to offer; maybe even after the first semester.
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11-19-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Just my opinion but I think AM will have another scholarship to offer; maybe even after the first semester.
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I would be surprised if that was the case. I don't have any information but the only player not in the rotation is Hill and usually in season transfers are do to conflict. In Hills case it seems like he just isn't good enough.
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11-20-2011, 09:55 PM
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Boy I hope it isn't in-season if it does occur. We are thin enough as it is. Ralph should stick around because Archie is brewing up something to be a part of. If we got Ross and Edwards, Miller's second (first full) class would be a monster. More importantly, it would make up for the losses of Staten, Gibson, Henton, and Spearman. If you counted Sanford and Derenbecker, I am not sure you could find that much talent being infused into one program in the entire country, period.
Derenbecker **** 94
Ross **** 92
Thomas *** 90
Scott ** 88
Robinson ** 88
Sanford ** 86
Edwards ** 83
Filthy. Finish it Archie!
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11-27-2011, 11:04 PM
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Kedar Edwards attends school in Orlando. Not sure if he attended any of the games, but he did post a message on Facebook that he watched Dayton get the win tonight over Minnesota. A great crowd and great play from the Flyers can't hurt our chances.
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11-27-2011, 11:19 PM
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Three wins on ESPN can only help recruiting. Kids should love our uptempo offense.
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11-28-2011, 08:25 AM
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The fact that Thomas, Scott and Robinson got some nice Props as UD recruits during our game against Minnesota should also help the recruiting process; that was a nice tip of the hat by ESPN and could pay dividends as AM and his staff continue to knock on doors.
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11-28-2011, 09:30 AM
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Agreed....
Originally Posted by Bat'71
The fact that Thomas, Scott and Robinson got some nice Props as UD recruits during our game against Minnesota should also help the recruiting process; that was a nice tip of the hat by ESPN and could pay dividends as AM and his staff continue to knock on doors.
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The Thanksgiving weekend national TV exposure,...along with great success,...is the kind of PR that money can't buy. Think of this with the mind-set of an 18 year-old kid who's signed with UD or is considering UD.
His family knows it, his friends and coaches know it....and "his" school is on national TV,...winning,....over a four day period. The kids must be flying high (no oun intended).
Wow!
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11-28-2011, 10:03 AM
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I've got to think having all 3 games on ESPN2 (vs ESPN U) has to pay bigger dividends for Archie right now than at any other point in his coaching career. Thinking forward 14 years, if my current 3 year old is talented enough to be recruited by a handful of D-1 schools how much of an obstacle does Archie face being a 32 year old first time head coach? Sure he might say all the right things, the school might work for what you're looking for, but how do you know how he's going to really play once the lights are on and the recruiting pitch is over? Well he got 3 opportunities to show any recruits they've been in contact with since he took the job to see how he'll run things, at least with the current roster. He'll throw it into the post, attack the rim, move the ball around, etc... Looks like a fun offense to play in, that has to make the sales job that much easier now that a recruit and/or parents of a recruit have been able to see with their own eyes how he does in games.
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11-28-2011, 10:35 AM
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without a doubt...huge exposure...ESPN - Disney event and everything falls in place...we had good time slots, little to no competition for eyeballs on Thanksgiving, no NBA highlights and then win it on Sunday in night prime time. And the talking heads couldn't have been more UD friendly...what a bonanza for Archie and UD hard to measure the impact of this kind of exposure...
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11-28-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
I've got to think having all 3 games on ESPN2 (vs ESPN U) has to pay bigger dividends for Archie right now than at any other point in his coaching career. Thinking forward 14 years, if my current 3 year old is talented enough to be recruited by a handful of D-1 schools how much of an obstacle does Archie face being a 32 year old first time head coach? Sure he might say all the right things, the school might work for what you're looking for, but how do you know how he's going to really play once the lights are on and the recruiting pitch is over? Well he got 3 opportunities to show any recruits they've been in contact with since he took the job to see how he'll run things, at least with the current roster. He'll throw it into the post, attack the rim, move the ball around, etc... Looks like a fun offense to play in, that has to make the sales job that much easier now that a recruit and/or parents of a recruit have been able to see with their own eyes how he does in games.
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What mattered most was that Archie and the Flyers WON all three games.
GO FLYERS!
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11-29-2011, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer69ers
What mattered most was that Archie and the Flyers WON all three games.
GO FLYERS!
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AMEN! If I'm signed on to be a Flyer next year, I'm feeling pretty good right now. If I'm considering being a Flyer in the near future, they definitely would have gained some ground this weekend.
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11-29-2011, 03:27 PM
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For what its worth and I'm sure many do not care but Ledante Henton is doing quite well for Providence 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder. I really wanted him to be a Flyer. But Archie did well in the time he had and I really like his coaching and player development. Kav and Luke stand out as improving.
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11-29-2011, 03:50 PM
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FWIW, I checked in on this as well the other day. He's putting up numbers, but failing to hit at a good rate (39% overall, 30% from 3 land) Percy Gibson is getting about 6 minutes a game, playing in 5 of the 6 Iowa State game.
I don't know much (anything) about either team to know if these numbers mean anything this early, just stating what I saw on their team's stat page. Don't know the level of competition, nor who they have playing ahead/around them.
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11-29-2011, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Kedar Edwards attends school in Orlando. Not sure if he attended any of the games, but he did post a message on Facebook that he watched Dayton get the win tonight over Minnesota. A great crowd and great play from the Flyers can't hurt our chances.
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If I were Edwards and considering UD that tournament and those great fans certainly would have gotten my attention.
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11-29-2011, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
FWIW, I checked in on this as well the other day. He's putting up numbers, but failing to hit at a good rate (39% overall, 30% from 3 land) Percy Gibson is getting about 6 minutes a game, playing in 5 of the 6 Iowa State game.
I don't know much (anything) about either team to know if these numbers mean anything this early, just stating what I saw on their team's stat page. Don't know the level of competition, nor who they have playing ahead/around them.
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Henton had 7 pts. in 36 min in a win at Fairfield. Also, interestingly enough, Providence played Iowa St. Henton had 6 pts. in 32 min and Gibson, 2 in 8 min. Iowa St. won.
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11-29-2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oRed
without a doubt...huge exposure...ESPN - Disney event and everything falls in place...we had good time slots, little to no competition for eyeballs on Thanksgiving, no NBA highlights and then win it on Sunday in night prime time. And the talking heads couldn't have been more UD friendly...what a bonanza for Archie and UD hard to measure the impact of this kind of exposure...
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is the Charleston Tournament event a big deal next year. As in televised usually?
thanks
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11-30-2011, 08:43 AM
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although I'm not 100% sure it's hard to imagine more exposure, afterall for all practical purposes the Old Spice tourney is an ESPN event because Disney owns ESPN. This year was just an extra exposure jackpot because the NBA was dark.
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11-30-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
is the Charleston Tournament event a big deal next year. As in televised usually?
thanks
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Yes. I watched a few Charleston Classic games this year. The announcers love to be there. I doubt it will have as much coverage as the Old Spice but it is one of the more respected tournaments year in and year out.
It helps that the field next year is pretty stacked: Baylor, COC, UD, St. John's, Colorado.
If BC and/or SIU get their acts together (only way to go is up!) it could be even more competitive. Plus their is an eighth team yet to be announced. I am guessing B1G/MWC/MVC/CAA/WCC.
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11-30-2011, 12:17 PM
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I wonder if they'll match up UD & SIU in round 1 to get a a little Kevin Dilliard plot line going?
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11-30-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
I wonder if they'll match up UD & SIU in round 1 to get a a little Kevin Dilliard plot line going?
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I'd much rather see Dillard get a shot at Staten, though that would still be great - for us.
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11-30-2011, 01:13 PM
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Any updates on Ross?
As for Henton, I watched the 2nd half of a Providence game on tv recently (loss to UNI). Henton reminded me most of....CJ. I'm not sure why, as he doesn't take many 3's. But he attacks the glass, didn't seem to force his game, and appears pretty smooth....all CJ like things. It may have been a bad game to judge him by, however, as they were getting beat and his teammate Vincent Council became Mr. Ball Hog and tried to win the game by himself.
Does anyone know if there are other SG's our Archie's radar other than Keder?
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11-30-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
I'd much rather see Dillard get a shot at Staten, though that would still be great - for us.
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It's not possible to arrange that matchup this early, tournament organizers can't be expected to know what team he'll be tranferring to play for next year.
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11-30-2011, 01:34 PM
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Henton is 12/19 from the FT line while Gibson is 2/4. They would have fit right in with BG's coaching style.
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11-30-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
It's not possible to arrange that matchup this early, tournament organizers can't be expected to know what team he'll be tranferring to play for next year.
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LOL!!!!
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11-30-2011, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CraSch
Any updates on Ross?
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He was in Fayetteville this past weekend and attended a game. Razorbacks destroyed Grambling.
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12-02-2011, 08:50 AM
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http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...s-1292996.html
Sounds like someone I could get behind playing at UD. Also sounds like a kid, despite the concern on the other thread yesterday, that won't be swayed one way or another by 1 stinker vs buffalo. Sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders.
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12-02-2011, 08:51 AM
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over on the A-10 board, muddy waters, stated that Thomas has already played like 10 games this season, average 15 points and 11 assists. Not bad numbers for our future PG.
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12-02-2011, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford
http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...s-1292996.html
Sounds like someone I could get behind playing at UD. Also sounds like a kid, despite the concern on the other thread yesterday, that won't be swayed one way or another by 1 stinker vs buffalo. Sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders.
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Absolutely....I'm telling you that AM is building something here..He has a real system in place with real offensive philosophies.......MM may just be the type of kid that playing in front of a close-knit family and 13,600 every night, in a rejuvenated program, is a great deal......Read in an article a few months ago he's building a nice relationship with AM..Recruiting is 101% about relationships and comfortability...
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12-02-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
Absolutely....I'm telling you that AM is building something here..He has a real system in place with real offensive philosophies.......MM may just be the type of kid that playing in front of a close-knit family and 13,600 every night, in a rejuvenated program, is a great deal......Read in an article a few months ago he's building a nice relationship with AM..Recruiting is 101% about relationships and comfortability...
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AGREED Steve. ARch has solid coaching staff, is after much higher quality recruits, and his offense is generally fluid and makes sense. Not awful to look at like Gregory's.
From all angles, ARchie's program is on upward trend and has to look appealing for recruits.
He can tell them we are playing 15th Ranked Alabama, we beat Minny and won that tournament. And look at Kevin Dillard point guards. He's special.
My one coach starred at Syracuse and won some Big East championships. I played at NC State and was a three point specialist as well as pg. There are just many many things they can legitimately say to recruits and i havne't even scratched the surface since i haven't mentioned Arkansas, Ohio State and other programs our coaches have been associated with!
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12-02-2011, 11:47 AM
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If Thad Matta at Ohio State wants Morgan he'll get Morgan. There's plenty more to entice him. He's an hour and a half away from home. The team is ranked #2 in the country. You have one of the top 5 football programs in the country including Urban Meyer to come in to coach....You can make the NBA (Oden/Conley/Cook ect).....Columbus is an exciting and very vibrant city.
If Ohio State don't want him then I think Dayton has a chance....otherwise IMO I think Ohio State gets him.
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12-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
AGREED Steve. ARch has solid coaching staff, is after much higher quality recruits, and his offense is generally fluid and makes sense. Not awful to look at like Gregory's.
From all angles, ARchie's program is on upward trend and has to look appealing for recruits.
He can tell them we are playing 15th Ranked Alabama, we beat Minny and won that tournament. And look at Kevin Dillard point guards. He's special.
My one coach starred at Syracuse and won some Big East championships. I played at NC State and was a three point specialist as well as pg. There are just many many things they can legitimately say to recruits and i havne't even scratched the surface since i haven't mentioned Arkansas, Ohio State and other programs our coaches have been associated with!
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BG's coaching staff was solid. And I think the recruits that Archie has signed have been of about the same quality as BG's recruits. And BG could sell the fact that he was an Izzo assistant at MSU when MSU won a national championship. And BG's teams at UD played many big name programs and won their fair share of games against those big name teams. And BG had Brian Roberts at pg. And BG's teams played better defense than Archie's team has so far.
But, I do like Archie's offense better.
Is the UD program on an upward trajectory? I will say yes, but the Buffalo game certainly has me scratching my head.
Last edited by ud2; 12-02-2011 at 12:17 PM..
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12-02-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Absolutely....I'm telling you that AM is building something here..He has a real system in place with real offensive philosophies.......MM may just be the type of kid that playing in front of a close-knit family and 13,600 every night
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I hope he doesn't end up playing in front of 13,600 every night, because if he does it won't be in UD Arena (capacity 13,435).
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12-02-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
.He has a real system in place with real offensive philosophies
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I do agree that the offense was offensive on Wednesday and we'll see lots of zone until we prove we have a solution - if AM can tackle that and develop a defensive strategy we'll be in good shape
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12-02-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
BG's coaching staff was solid. And I think the recruits that Archie has signed have been of about the same quality as BG's recruits. And BG could sell the fact that he was an Izzo assistant at MSU when MSU won a national championship. And BG's teams at UD played many big name programs and won their fair share of games against those big name teams. And BG had Brian Roberts at pg. And BG's teams played better defense than Archie's team has so far.
But, I do like Archie's offense better.
Is the UD program on an upward trajectory? I will say yes, but the Buffalo game certainly has me scratching my head.
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I don't think there is one fundamental basis to substantiate your comment about the recruits. AM has brought in one guy that would never even get a blink, probably, from AM had it not been for the middle of April on a team losing several seniors and 2 underclassman. Heck, Archie's 3 guys (outside of 1) have not even played 1 game yet in their senior years....I think there was core value that BG looked to when recruiting and I don't know if it was toughness more than athletic ability or the other way around but the basketball skill sets he brought in from a fundamental standpoint had me scratching my head with many of the recruits both prior to stepping on campus and after.....
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12-02-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
I don't think there is one fundamental basis to substantiate your comment about the recruits. AM has brought in one guy that would never even get a blink, probably, from AM had it not been for the middle of April on a team losing several seniors and 2 underclassman. Heck, Archie's 3 guys (outside of 1) have not even played 1 game yet in their senior years....I think there was core value that BG looked to when recruiting and I don't know if it was toughness more than athletic ability or the other way around but the basketball skill sets he brought in from a fundamental standpoint had me scratching my head with many of the recruits both prior to stepping on campus and after.....
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Your post refutes the same post ud2 was responding to. We don't know yet if AM's recruits are better, or worse, (or about the same) than BG's. You say there is nothing to substantiate that AM's are about the same (or worse). There is also nothing to substantiate, yet, that they are better. I hope they are, and I think they might be, but I certainly can't say that at this point.
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12-02-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Your post refutes the same post ud2 was responding to. We don't know yet if AM's recruits are better, or worse, (or about the same) than BG's. You say there is nothing to substantiate that AM's are about the same (or worse). There is also nothing to substantiate, yet, that they are better. I hope they are, and I think they might be, but I certainly can't say that at this point.
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Where did I even mention that AM's recruits were, or will, be better? Please show me..The defense I have here is having UD2 show me evidence of something that has not even happened yet and that's at least letting the AM seniors-to-be play their senior year before judging and even that will be tough to do because there is a bias here and that was knowing the "results" of BG's classes...He made a statement that says a group of 17 year olds in their current senior year are the same as the BG ones..Just not sure how that is proven.....The rest of my post are personal opinions based on what I saw...
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12-02-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Where did I even mention that AM's recruits were, or will, be better? Please show me..The defense I have here is having UD2 show me evidence of something that has not even happened yet and that's at least letting the AM seniors-to-be play their senior year before judging and even that will be tough to do because there is a bias here and that was knowing the "results" of BG's classes...He made a statement that says a group of 17 year olds in their current senior year are the same as the BG ones..Just not sure how that is proven.....The rest of my post are personal opinions based on what I saw...
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I didn't say you said they were better. The post ud2 was responding to said they were better. ud2 said they were about the same. You said there was nothing to substantiate that they are about the same. All I said was that there is nothing to substantiate that they are better, worse, or about the same.
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12-02-2011, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Where did I even mention that AM's recruits were, or will, be better? Please show me..The defense I have here is having UD2 show me evidence of something that has not even happened yet and that's at least letting the AM seniors-to-be play their senior year before judging and even that will be tough to do because there is a bias here and that was knowing the "results" of BG's classes...He made a statement that says a group of 17 year olds in their current senior year are the same as the BG ones..Just not sure how that is proven.....The rest of my post are personal opinions based on what I saw...
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Flyer 86 said: "ARch...is after much higher quality recruits...". I was just responding to that part of the post.
My point is that at this point I don't think Archie is after much higher quality recruits than the recruits that BG brought in. Based upon the recruiting websites' rankings, Gavrilovic, Derenbecker, Sanford, Robinson, Scott, and Thomas as a group are ranked about the same as the average player that BG brought in. Derenbecker is a 4 star player, but so were CW and JS.
And as longtimefan said, we don't know at this point whether AM's recruits will be better, worse, or about the same as BG's recruits were.
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12-02-2011, 04:30 PM
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I don't care how about their rankings coming in - I just want to see tangible improvement as seniors.
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12-03-2011, 01:12 PM
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BG went after top notch recruits and AM is doing the same thing. What has changed over the past decade (and I believe this was mentioned in a number of other Threads and Posts) is that top quality prospects will now listen to our coaches when they come calling and give UD serious consideration as a place to play college ball; this hadn't been the case for too many years prior to 2000. While, many may not like how BG developed our talent, there really shouldn't be any question that he helped elevate the program and raise our national profile. Let's just hope AM can continue to build on our foundation and be successful as he and his staff hit the recruiting trail; he's done pretty well so far in a limited amount of time here, so things could really get interesting!
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12-03-2011, 01:31 PM
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I personally don't care how many stars a recruit has, I would trust my own eyes (even though I'm not a coach) more than stars. IMHO how you play in championship games and against the best competition is the way to gauge a player. CJ played really well against the best teams in high school. Staten played really well (ignoring the mental part) against the best teams in high school. I think all of our incoming recruits and transfers have been battle tested prior to arrival and want to improve. This class of recruits and transfers should be compared to BG's first year if you want to compare because the situations were similar, lots of scholarships available with very little time.
Who knows whether they will turn out better than the average of players BG brought in but I would put my money on it if I were forced to choose.
BG was a great guy, anyone who spends their spare time delivering beds and cribs to poor people is pretty special. I will be glad when we are past comparing BG versus Archie.
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12-03-2011, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Flyer 86 said: "ARch...is after much higher quality recruits...". I was just responding to that part of the post.
My point is that at this point I don't think Archie is after much higher quality recruits than the recruits that BG brought in. Based upon the recruiting websites' rankings, Gavrilovic, Derenbecker, Sanford, Robinson, Scott, and Thomas as a group are ranked about the same as the average player that BG brought in. Derenbecker is a 4 star player, but so were CW and JS.
And as longtimefan said, we don't know at this point whether AM's recruits will be better, worse, or about the same as BG's recruits were.
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as others have said development is of prime importance, regardless of rankings.
Second, i do give Gregory credit for Dillard. That was a huge and intelligent pickup. Give him credit for Marcus Johnson and Wright, but they didn't develop as they should.
If you are telling me a 4 star LSU player (and he played and did well!), a Georgetown sub, and the new three recruits don't trump Gregory's recruiting history... well the proof is in the pudding, or future playing. We are also recruiting NY City.
That has not been happening.
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12-03-2011, 02:15 PM
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I'm also not sure you can say Gregorys assistants were solid. We didn't hire one or really consider him.
If you notice the resumes of ARchie's four (or is three) guys you can see a huge experience and winning history there in all of them. Amazing resumes. Never seen anything like it before at UD to be honest.
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12-03-2011, 10:17 PM
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read on twitter arizona freshman, Sidiki Johnson left the team, says he was suspended before coaches vs cancer, and hasnt played since. i dont know what him leaving means, was he granted his release? not sure might have to wait for more details. wonder if archie might check in?
http://www.azdesertswarm.com/2011/12...ldcats-program
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12-04-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
as others have said development is of prime importance, regardless of rankings.
Second, i do give Gregory credit for Dillard. That was a huge and intelligent pickup. Give him credit for Marcus Johnson and Wright, but they didn't develop as they should.
If you are telling me a 4 star LSU player (and he played and did well!), a Georgetown sub, and the new three recruits don't trump Gregory's recruiting history... well the proof is in the pudding, or future playing. We are also recruiting NY City.
That has not been happening.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. All I'm saying about the AM recruits is that there is not any objective, quantitative sort of data(such as recruiting websites' grades/rankings)that show that they are clearly better than the average BG recruit. Just because Derenbecker is a 4 star player from LSU, Sanford is from Georgetown, and Thomas is from NYC, does not mean that they are better than the average BG recruit.
Originally Posted by Flyer 86
I'm also not sure you can say Gregorys assistants were solid. We didn't hire one or really consider him.
If you notice the resumes of ARchie's four (or is three) guys you can see a huge experience and winning history there in all of them. Amazing resumes. Never seen anything like it before at UD to be honest.
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You may be right about AM's assistants having more experience, I don't know. Assistants have come and gone under BG: Reggie Rankin, Bob Beyer, Anthony Solomon, etc. weren't part of BG's later staffs. I don't remember the resumes of those guys. Billy Schmidt had experience coaching in the SEC, Big Ten, and Big East. Jon Borovich had been the video coordinator at Michigan State along with his other qualifications. Cornell Mann had a lot of experience, but as far as I'm aware, he never worked at a big time program. BG's assistants had a lot of experience.
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12-04-2011, 01:36 PM
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Opportunity for AM?
Last year UConn had an exceptional freshman class...this year more of the same....with the result that Calhoun has ten freshmen and sophomores on this year's team. These guys all are good and would be starters on most top-level Div 1 teams.
But there are not enought minutes, 200, to keep ten guys happy. They didn't choose UConn to ride the bench. Yesterday against Arkansas two guys who got plenty of playing time last year played six minutes each, while one of the freshman played 35 minutes.
You can see the writing on the wall....at least one, and maybe two, transfer announcement at or before the end of this season. These are kids that were recruited by UConn.......should be an opportunity for other schools.
I don't know how a coach goes about this. I presume that there can be no contact with a player on another team until that player announces that he intends to transfer. But, once such an announcement is made the guy is fair game? A coach having scholarships has to be on top of situations like this, though. Usually there is not much time between the time transfer is annonced and a guy picks another school.
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12-08-2011, 12:08 PM
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2013 Alter PG Jaaron Simmons was at the game last night. After the game Archie told Simmons that he would be at his game Friday against Moeller.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...Simmons-111445
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12-08-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
We'll have to agree to disagree. All I'm saying about the AM recruits is that there is not any objective, quantitative sort of data(such as recruiting websites' grades/rankings)that show that they are clearly better than the average BG recruit. Just because Derenbecker is a 4 star player from LSU, Sanford is from Georgetown, and Thomas is from NYC, does not mean that they are better than the average BG recruit.
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Totally agree! Virtually every D1 recruit has great high school numbers. This includes the ones that play at lower level D1 schools. Some pan out, and some do not. Either way, it is impossible to judge someone's success at UD until they have some games playing for UD under their belt. Example - Ralph Hill. Guy barely sees the floor, but he put up good figures in HS.
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12-08-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
Totally agree! Virtually every D1 recruit has great high school numbers. This includes the ones that play at lower level D1 schools. Some pan out, and some do not. Either way, it is impossible to judge someone's success at UD until they have some games playing for UD under their belt. Example - Ralph Hill. Guy barely sees the floor, but he put up good figures in HS.
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i wasn't talking to high school numbers in my original post. I was speaking to geography (NYC commit) and the two transfers.
Perhaps you haven't read Derenbeckers' stats and history to date. The guy played lotso minutes at a SEC Division 1 school. Not just a one time State Player of the Year. A two time player of the Year.
So agreed , forget recruiting ratings - I"m talking real life having played and seen time. Same as Vee Sanford. Didn't get lots of playing time at Georgetown, due to Chris Wright (the other chris wright) and others ahead of him.
Geography is less important than actual D1 playing time and contributions. Do know that some of these NY City guys kill it. See the UCONN Star Kemba Walker for example. He killed it the last two years in college.
my 3 cents.
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12-08-2011, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
Perhaps you haven't read Derenbeckers' stats and history to date. The guy played lotso minutes at a SEC Division 1 school. Not just a one time State Player of the Year. A two time player of the Year.
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I won't argue. You can find posts from me specifically stating that I'm as excited to see him on the floor next year as anyone. Derenbecker seems like he could be a great find. I hope so - we're going to need some help after losing this year's senior class. Plenty of opportunity for some players to make a serious impact.
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12-08-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
I won't argue. You can find posts from me specifically stating that I'm as excited to see him on the floor next year as anyone. Derenbecker seems like he could be a great find. I hope so - we're going to need some help after losing this year's senior class. Plenty of opportunity for some players to make a serious impact.
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But also a nice nucleus to build around---Dillard, Benson, Kavanaugh, Oliver.
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12-09-2011, 11:07 AM
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Sheldon Jeter
About half way down in this article is a mention that UD has offered Sheldon Jeter, a 6'7" guard/forward from Beaver Falls, Pa.
http://postgazette.com/pg/11343/1195515-361.stm
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12-09-2011, 11:55 AM
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http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18103
Sea Bass pointed him out as one to watch in this thread several months back. I wonder how much contact Sheldon has w/ Archie's father
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12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
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Butler?
One would think that after back-to-back Final Fours and the accompanying TV exposure and exceptional PR, Butler would have had a couple of strong recruiting classes. But, apparently not. They are 4-6.
Any guesses as to why BU does not seem to have benefited from the incredible exposure the program has enjoyed over the last two seasons?
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12-10-2011, 10:39 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Any guesses as to why BU does not seem to have benefited from the incredible exposure the program has enjoyed over the last two seasons?
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I would guess the same thing that happened to Indiana State after Larry Bird - not taking advantage of the exposure by going after a higher level of recruit and continuing to recruit the same type of players - you get the occasional diamond but you're not going to hit pay dirt every class
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12-10-2011, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
One would think that after back-to-back Final Fours and the accompanying TV exposure and exceptional PR, Butler would have had a couple of strong recruiting classes. But, apparently not. They are 4-6.
Any guesses as to why BU does not seem to have benefited from the incredible exposure the program has enjoyed over the last two seasons?
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just goes to show that serendipity may play a bigger role than most would care to admit.
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12-11-2011, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
One would think that after back-to-back Final Fours and the accompanying TV exposure and exceptional PR, Butler would have had a couple of strong recruiting classes. But, apparently not. They are 4-6.
Any guesses as to why BU does not seem to have benefited from the incredible exposure the program has enjoyed over the last two seasons?
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Recruits are still only in HS and Butler is in the Horizon League - not exactly hyped on the Eastern Sports Programming Network. It takes years/decades to build up that perception. Today's disaster aside, it took X being a consistently solid team for 20 years to really get the national attention they earned. Gonzaga was at least 10 years.
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12-11-2011, 10:15 AM
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One would think that there would be some problems for X on the recruiting road in the next year or two. I guess they will be able to get more gangsters, but the Frease types will go elsewhere.
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12-11-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
One would think that there would be some problems for X on the recruiting road in the next year or two. I guess they will be able to get more gangsters, but the Frease types will go elsewhere.
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I believe the term Holloway used is "gangstas."
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12-11-2011, 11:26 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by jack72
One would think that there would be some problems for X on the recruiting road in the next year or two. I guess they will be able to get more gangsters, but the Frease types will go elsewhere.
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I could be wrong but didn't Frease get into a fight or break former OSU center BJ Mullens jaw in a high school game? If I remember correct Frease is exactly the Xavier type.
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12-11-2011, 12:21 PM
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There is also (apparently) video of Frease throwing a punch at a UC fan during the aftermath - hope the A10 looks at all of the footage and not just the clips from ESPN
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12-27-2011, 04:09 AM
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Recruiting Update
Recruit Ryan Taylor:
"Hargrave Military Academy in Chatham, Va., might be helping Taylor mature into a well-rounded person, but hes being courted by some of nations top college basketball programs because hes already a well-rounded player.
Taylor averaged 27.6 points, 14.2 rebounds and 4.2 blocks as a senior.
Dayton is very much in my final five, Taylor said. I like the program. ... They make it to the Dance. Because its close to home, my parents can see me play. And I believe if I go to Dayton, I can really take them to the next level. More about Ryan Taylor and other recruits in the DDN article below.
Dayton recruiting highly regarded prospects:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...s-1304391.html
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9 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to UD Sam For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-27-2011, 11:33 AM
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Isaah Cousins from Mount Vernon (NY) is an incredible talent. Mount Vernon is the defending NYS Champion and is expected to contend again this year.
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12-27-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by westchesterflyer
Isaah Cousins from Mount Vernon (NY) is an incredible talent. Mount Vernon is the defending NYS Champion and is expected to contend again this year.
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Sounds like he is. I wonder why he is not being courted by more big schools?
Wow, if we could get these two!!
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12-27-2011, 09:32 PM
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Did some looking into this Isaiah Cousins. Stumbled across a couple tweets by college basketball analyst Vin Parise.
Evidently, he is 6'4 but comfortable running the point.
https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/VinPar...49437108871168
His coach thinks he may be Big East level but Manhattan, Iona, Stony Brook and Dayton have been all over him. He said no thanks to the Bonnies.
https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/VinPar...50206675570689
Unless his top priority is to stay close to home than you have to like our chances. I suspect our NYC recruiting specialist, Coach Griffin, has been hard at work.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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Last edited by DallasFlyer; 12-27-2011 at 10:20 PM..
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12-28-2011, 08:43 AM
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Iona is making great strides in the NY area. Coach Cluess runs a lightning fast offense that is very appealing to the local HS kids.
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01-21-2012, 08:38 PM
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bump:
anyone know what recruits were at the game today? think scott/robinson were there on their official visits.
think i read luke kennard was there, maverick morgan too
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01-21-2012, 11:50 PM
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From the DDN:
Prospects watch: The Flyers hosted several recruits, including Franklin freshman Luke Kennard, Dunbar freshman A.J. Harris and two senior signees from Columbus Northland, Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson.
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01-28-2012, 09:25 PM
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read on twitter, two recruits from romulus hs in mich were at the game tonight. EC matthews, wes clark
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01-28-2012, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
read on twitter, two recruits from romulus hs in mich were at the game tonight. EC matthews, wes clark
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I hope they weren't turned off by this dismal performance.
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01-29-2012, 09:53 AM
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EC Matthews and Wes Clark were joined by Jaylon Brown from Fishers (IN) HS and Maverick Morgan from Springboro.
Great quote from Mav's dad Jeff:
He told me, I really like Dayton. I said, I know, son. I just want him to take his time.
Linky goodness:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...e-1320304.html
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01-29-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
I hope they weren't turned off by this dismal performance.
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Most recruits could care less.......These kids aren't dumb at all. They know the situation with UD right now and these kids are all excellent players. As with all great players comes extreme confidence and probably everyone of these kids thinks they can play a better 1 or 2 guard right now than Parker or feel they can play at least as well as MC. I guarantee you all those recruits there last night probably felt they could have played and contributed. The really wise recruits, and their families and/or guardians, take the approach that Morgan did. They know that to a man all these kids have improved quite a bit from a year ago and that UD still is lacking in some serious talent and the great atmosphere along with a coach who is proving that development is happening are vital points more than anything. Watching UD on ESPN is incredible exposure and watching the NCAA first 4 in is great as well but watching what AM is doing is what matters to them.
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03-01-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Did find it interesting that Thomas transferred to improve chances of qualifying. Hopefully he is close and the the split with SJU was not because they thought it was unlikely. Edwards and Scott are nonqualifiers at this point too. Which is why none of three have visited. Maybe UD is going to be a little more accepting of partial and nonqualifiers. That would be a good thing in my mind. But probably a reason November signing period is not at the forefront. Not sure Scott or Edwatds would sign with no official visits or if they even can without a qualifying ACT. Don't think they will have their scores by the signing period in November.
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I haven't kept up with this. Have Scott and Thomas qualified? I assume Robinson has qualified.
Next year's roster:
1Dillard
2Thomas
3Sanford
4Derenbecker
5Hill
6Oliver
7Robinson
8Scott
9Benson
10Gavrilovic
11Kavanaugh
2 open scholarships
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03-01-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I haven't kept up with this. Have Scott and Thomas qualified? I assume Robinson has qualified.
Next year's roster:
1Dillard
2Thomas
3Sanford
4Derenbecker
5Hill
6Oliver
7Robinson
8Scott
9Benson
10Gavrilovic
11Kavanaugh
2 open scholarships
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Yes and Thomas is coming Sat for his official visit by his twitter page
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03-01-2012, 03:02 PM
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ACT scores from February posted this week. Obviously has a qualifying score now.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Mad Props to UDDoug For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-01-2012, 04:08 PM
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We could use a JUCO big man. Not sure if Archie is looking at that option.
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