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  #401  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:21 PM
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So TCU to the Big 12... We'll have to see what Mizzou decides. U of L, UC, and WV I imagine are all ringing the doorbell of the Big 12. Will be very interesting to see if the Big 12 answers.
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  #402  
Old 10-06-2011, 11:12 PM
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with TCU headed to the Big 12, that should keep Baylor happy allowing Mizzou to go to the SEC. Then the Big 12 adds Lousville and W. Va and holds a spot for ND/BYU, Rutgers and UConn go to the ACC and that should be it for football

given that scenario if I'm UC and South Fla I become very nervous about my sit
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rasta man View Post
with TCU headed to the Big 12, that should keep Baylor happy allowing Mizzou to go to the SEC. Then the Big 12 adds Lousville and W. Va and holds a spot for ND/BYU, Rutgers and UConn go to the ACC and that should be it for football

given that scenario if I'm UC and South Fla I become very nervous about my sit
i think that there are surprises to come. i spoke with a pitt broadcaster last night that said louvisville and uc would be announced any moment. reports yesterday were that byu is out. i still think that nd is ultimately big10 bound. the big10 network helps them in more than just football. with the big10 announcing the new hockey conference and that it will carry games on the big10 network, nd knows that additional money streams and recruiting tools exist. if the big10 does expand east as is assumed, they would be on tv in the rich hockey recruiting areas of minnesota, michigan and the east coast. this is just an example, but there are layers of benefits to nd joining the big10. i think rutgers and uconn will end up in the big10 as well (as is assumed). i mentioned maryland earlier (someone pointed out that they're in the acc) as maryland has been mentioned before as a target. i continue to include them generally since they were mentioned before. i think that the teams that should be worried at this point are uc, wvu and usf. though i heard that uc is going to the big12, there's a chance that the big12 does nothing after adding tcu and if mizzou gets voted down by the sec. wvu has already been told no by the acc and sec. it's not clear that the big12 jumps on them either. usf could just be out of luck.
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  #404  
Old 10-07-2011, 08:41 AM
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there was also a press release from uc last night that it's involved in realignment talks. i think that they are subtly telling the alumni that they're in discussions with the big12.
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  #405  
Old 10-07-2011, 12:08 PM
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...on-tcu-fallout

Couple of things in there, biggest being that no teams are officially set to join immediatly and that both Navy & Air Force will not join right now over concerns that the league isn't going to stay together. Why be somebody else's security blanket, to have it pulled out from you in 2 weeks.

Reading into it, as suspected, the collection of schools are not committed to each other, few or perhaps none are willing to give a commitment to the conference, all are hoping to be somewhere better sooner rather than later.
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  #406  
Old 10-07-2011, 12:26 PM
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every one is looking for their own safe landing spot. The corpse will be buried in time.
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  #407  
Old 10-07-2011, 02:23 PM
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prob a typo Sea Bass.


plural .... corpses!
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  #408  
Old 10-07-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
.....perhaps. But mentioning Rutgers, UConn and/or Maryland as BT possibilities seems to overlook the fact that UM is in the ACC, whereas the other two are more than "available". Why would UM want to join the Big Ten? Is there evidence that UM is unhappy in the ACC?....or that the DC area is a hotbed of college sports?
If you're not in the Big Ten, SEC, or Pac-12, you're available. I don't think the ACC is guaranteed to come out of this unscathed with the 14 they've currently got.

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
So, let's suppose that it's a choice between Rutgers and UConn. Both schools bring the NYC market, to the extent that there is such a market for college FB. But, UConn brings national championship men's and women's basketball.....plus other sports that have won national championships....and, perhaps, a slight edge academically.
Academically, Rutgers has the trump card. Also, I don't think either solidifies the fractured NYC market which doesn't care much about college football.
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  #409  
Old 10-07-2011, 07:16 PM
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Missouri, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and UConn would make the Big 10 a very nice 16 team conference. But would UAC be able to become a Big 10 fan.....at least he would have to stop defending the Big East - because it would no longer exist.
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  #410  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:23 PM
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If this was posted already, a thousand pardons.............

http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/2011/...ast-basketball
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  #411  
Old 10-08-2011, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
If this was posted already, a thousand pardons.............

http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/2011/...ast-basketball
The author (& Tom Penders) miss Seton Hall, but the math still works since DePaul is counted twice. Guess all the fireworks on this site qualifies us as "rabid".

I think most Flyers would be ecstatic with that lineup, but is 16 a good number for a basketball conference? Would that conference be able to consistently generate 6-7 bids, or will it get squeezed by the new BCS super conferences? If it only generates 3-4 bids, will UD be able to beat out perennial tourney teams Nova, G-Town, X, Butler, Marquette, and the other rising stars to secure one of those bids?
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  #412  
Old 10-08-2011, 08:09 AM
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You forgot...

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Missouri, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and UConn would make the Big 10 a very nice 16 team conference. But would UAC be able to become a Big 10 fan.....at least he would have to stop defending the Big East - because it would no longer exist.
....I am a graduate of a Big Ten university and have seen my share of Big Ten games. I would be delighted to see UConn in either the Big Ten or the ACC....in fact I'd prefer the Big Ten, although the geography isn't great.
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  #413  
Old 10-08-2011, 08:25 AM
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So I actually know Steven Uhlman the author of the new big east article. To understand where he is coming from he is a big Duq. Dukes fan. So while this thread has basically been Dayton fans thinking we deserve in a new big east, this is a UD outsider giving us the nod. I was at a Dayton @ Duq. game and I happened to run into him. UD had a student bus of 50 students and I had 12 more students who also made the trip, so the fact that so many UD students traveled and had a strong alumni showing at the game contributed to us having a "rabid fan base", in the eyes of an opponent. Nice to know we not only stack up against other mid-majors but would be considered a lock.
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  #414  
Old 10-08-2011, 08:26 AM
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I don't know how the article Bobber referenced could leave St. Louis out of the equation while keeping St. Joe's in (and how can SHU be omitted?) Count me as skeptical on this potential configuration...the thought process behind this piece seems a little slipshod with no solid rational given as to why some schools are included at the expense of others. The Bilikins have a history with both Marquette and DePaul and would add a major new market to a reconfigured BE BB conference, while filling out a Midwest hub. In addition, why pick Cleveland State over Duquesne? Yes, CSU has had more recent success in men's BB than the Dukes, but the Dukes have been improving and appear to be a better institutional fit with the other schools than CSU (plus the Dukes would keep the new BE in the Pittsburgh market.) URI and UMass don't have rabid fan bases and their facilities appear to be below par. Meanwhile why would Providence and 'Nova want competition in their own backyards for recruits from the likes of URI and St. Joe's, respectively? I also don't see why the Hoyas would want to have G.Mason included (and why include both Richmond and VCU?)...turf wars and politics will likely play an important role in whatever develops.

Needless to say, it will be interesting and, obviously, we all want what is best for UD when this all shakes out. While I believe we have positioned ourselves well for any conference expansion by a reformulated BE BB league, we've been left at the altar before and I think we should all be a little wary of developments on this front; what's the old Chinese curse..."May you live in interesting times"? I think we're there.
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  #415  
Old 10-08-2011, 08:56 AM
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UAC (and longtimefan), I think UConn's best hope is for inclusion in the ACC (for which I believe their Administration has already indicated a preference.) UConn would add very little to the Big Ten where FB is the driving force. As has been noted, UConn is not exactly in the heart of college FB country and their fans don't travel well; to the degree there is interest in college FB in the NYC metro area (IMHO) it is dominated by ND and Penn State (with a smattering of interest in Rutgers and Syracuse when they do well...otherwise it's pretty much a yawner outside of the white betting strips.) The ACC on the other hand would probably be interested in filling out their East Coast footprint with the likes of UConn and RU and would be more intrigued with the BB programs than the Big Ten. The Big Ten commissioner is on record as stating that a "compelling" case be made for expansion, not just any case (http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...r-1265684.html) and I don't think UConn fits the bill. The Big Ten is probably waiting to snare ND should the BE implode and then they would likely look to add someone like Mizzu to fill out their ranks (they'd already have a Northeast following with the likes of ND in the fold.)
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:03 AM
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St. Louis is not exactly in the East, and their whinny coach already complains about the travel. It would be ironic if his comments came back to bite him in his great big butt.
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  #417  
Old 10-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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New Big East--12 teams

What makes the most sense to me would be a 12 team league. There are a couple of good reasons for this:

1) Anything more than 12 risks dilution from a quality and $ perspective

2) Scheduling is easier. I always liked the A-10 scheduling when you play a home and home against the teams in your division and play everyone in the other division 1X/year and get to see the other division teams at home every other year.

3) Traveling is easier. There is a natural break between the East/Midwest teams here. For the non revenue sports, this minimizes travel costs.

4) This is important....I think the 5 original East members would like to play home and home. St Johns/Providence, Seton Hall/Villanova are travel partners. Finding a team like Richmond would be a natural travel partner with G'Town.

The six teams in the West that make the most sense are DePaul/Marquette, Xavier/Dayton, and Butler/Notre Dame (or St. Louis). I think St. Louis would prefer this to the MVC because they have been linked to DePaul, Marquette, X, and UD for many years.

The big fear I have is if ND stays in. There are 2 spots for Butler, St. Louis, and UD.

We want to be on the inside of this not on the outside looking in.
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  #418  
Old 10-08-2011, 11:03 AM
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UConn fans...Northeast Fans...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
UAC (and longtimefan), I think UConn's best hope is for inclusion in the ACC (for which I believe their Administration has already indicated a preference.) UConn would add very little to the Big Ten where FB is the driving force. As has been noted, UConn is not exactly in the heart of college FB country and their fans don't travel well; to the degree there is interest in college FB in the NYC metro area (IMHO) it is dominated by ND and Penn State (with a smattering of interest in Rutgers and Syracuse when they do well...otherwise it's pretty much a yawner outside of the white betting strips.) The ACC on the other hand would probably be interested in filling out their East Coast footprint with the likes of UConn and RU and would be more intrigued with the BB programs than the Big Ten. The Big Ten commissioner is on record as stating that a "compelling" case be made for expansion, not just any case (http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayto...r-1265684.html) and I don't think UConn fits the bill. The Big Ten is probably waiting to snare ND should the BE implode and then they would likely look to add someone like Mizzu to fill out their ranks (they'd already have a Northeast following with the likes of ND in the fold.)
UConn fans do travel well, very well, in fact,....to follow a winning team. That is a big difference between NE fans and those elsewhere. Recall, there was a time before Calhoun and Auriemma when UConn didn't draw well and there was no need to travel in the post season. The championship programs those guys created changed that.

UConn FBS football has been better than the average FBS program...much better than MAC, for example,...even has been ranked in the Top 25 occasionally. But, UC football has never been very good and certainly not on a consistent basis.

It's my opionion....a guess,...that if UC was in either the Big Ten or ACC these things would happen; 1. Recruiting would be easier; 2. The school would start spending even more than they now do on FB,..which is a lot; 3. Fans would be very excited to have the likes of OSU, Nebraska, Wisconsin playing in CT. I think the level of UC FB would be elevated to another level entirely by such a development.....if the team's performance imrpoved as well.

When Calhoun leaves his successor will have a very tough job on his hands. If he doesn't continue to win the fan base will wilt. I don't know why fans in the NE are like that; but they are. It's like that on the west coast as well.

In the South and Mid-west fan support is fanatical. The BB attendence at UD during the dreadful JOB era attests to that.

Whatever, UConn and Rutgers are very good schools by just about any measure.....but UConn has been much better on the fields/courts of play winning over a dozen national championships.
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  #419  
Old 10-08-2011, 11:36 AM
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What kind of presence/fan support, if any, does UConn have in Boston?
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  #420  
Old 10-08-2011, 12:32 PM
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UAC, I don't disagree that UConn BB fans are fanatical, but FB seems to be driving this conference realignment bus and UConn FB doesn't get the excitement level up in the Northeast. While UConn fans may be excited to get Nebraska or MSU, etc. into Storrs, Conn. I don't think it would be reciprocal (BB, sure, FB not so much.) I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the Huskies couldn't sell their allotment of BCS tickets last year and that is why I said that UConn (FB) fans don't travel well.
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  #421  
Old 10-08-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
UConn fans do travel well, very well, in fact,....to follow a winning team.
But in the down years, they won't draw football crowds. I think that is probably one of the problems that the ACC sees in UConn.
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  #422  
Old 10-08-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
UConn FBS football has been better than the average FBS program...much better than MAC, for example,...even has been ranked in the Top 25 occasionally. But, UC football has never been very good and certainly not on a consistent basis.
I don't think you can say that UConn has been MUCH better than the MAC. The MAC has had a team in either the final regular season Top 25 or the final Top 25 five out of the last ten years. One year they had two teams in the Top 25. My records show that UConn has been ranked only once (25th), in the final AP regular season poll in 2010 with an 8-4 record. (They were not ranked in the USA Today poll.) UConn really hasn't been any better than the top of the MAC.
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  #423  
Old 10-08-2011, 02:03 PM
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i believe it will stay catholic. i also believe notre dame will stay, as will villanova. i would rather have creighton/st joes than slu/duq. to me, slu/duq should only be added if 14 was desired. slu would probably be happy they were left out, and gladly take creighton's spot in the mvc.

this would really hurt the a10. i believe after all is said and done: temple, umass, xavier, dayton, slu and possibly duquesne and st joes will no longer be in the conference.

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Old 10-08-2011, 05:16 PM
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UConn and the MAC

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't think you can say that UConn has been MUCH better than the MAC. The MAC has had a team in either the final regular season Top 25 or the final Top 25 five out of the last ten years. One year they had two teams in the Top 25. My records show that UConn has been ranked only once (25th), in the final AP regular season poll in 2010 with an 8-4 record. (They were not ranked in the USA Today poll.) UConn really hasn't been any better than the top of the MAC.

My comment re UC and the MAC was based on UC's performance against MAC teams. In UConn's early FBS years they played as an independent and scheduled many games with MAC opponents....which continued after UC joined the Big East. I'm not going to take the time to look this up...but I bet I know one person who will....but over the last ten or so years UConn has played ~ 20 games against MAC teams, losing only twice...games that I saw. Some years ago UConn faced the MAC champ in a bowl...Motor City perhaps...maybe Toledo....I think UC won by quite a bit.

That was the basis of my comment re the MAC.

Over the last several years UConn's running game has been among the best in the country...featuring backs ranked #1, #2 or thereabouts,...Donald Brown and Jordon Todman...both leaving after their jumior years for the NFL, where they are today.

Three years ago only one team had more players drafted by the NFL than UConn....USC. And, in recent years UC has had the highest graduation rate among public schools.

The absolute disaster for UConn since QB Dan Orlosky(SP?) graduated 6-7 years ago is the teams inability to recruit a decent QB. (Our Tino would have started for UConn). As all you experts know, without a passing game it doesn't matter how good your runners are....it's pretty easy for an opponent to stop your offense.

This year UC is starting a walk-on at QB. The other two QBs are freshmen. It's truly painful to watch. The guy that should be QB, a senior, was booted for failing a random drug test.

Bottom line: Connecticut football is not at all good at the moment and would struggle even in the MAC. That will not change until they luck out and recruit a decent QB.

(You know though, Texas didn't look great against OU today...and Fla isn't looking too good against LSU).
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:21 PM
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Boston is a pro sports town...

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
What kind of presence/fan support, if any, does UConn have in Boston?
Boston College doesn't have great support in Boston. UMass will play its home games in Boston as an FBS team. UConn is 100 miles from Boston and many alums live in the area. UC has much stronger support in the NYC area...also about 100 miles away.

But, the NE will never be the south of mid-west.

By the way, more than one person with inside info has said that the ACC wanted UP and SU basketball, not their football teams. Except for FB UConn brings its other sports at the very highest level.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:23 PM
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True, but neither did...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
UAC, I don't disagree that UConn BB fans are fanatical, but FB seems to be driving this conference realignment bus and UConn FB doesn't get the excitement level up in the Northeast. While UConn fans may be excited to get Nebraska or MSU, etc. into Storrs, Conn. I don't think it would be reciprocal (BB, sure, FB not so much.) I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the Huskies couldn't sell their allotment of BCS tickets last year and that is why I said that UConn (FB) fans don't travel well.

...Oklahoma.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:31 PM
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Really hard to say...

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
But in the down years, they won't draw football crowds. I think that is probably one of the problems that the ACC sees in UConn.
.....NE fans are not rabid...but they're not moribund either.

The cachet of the Big Ten and its teams is enormous. It's hard to imagine UConn fans not turning out to watch Michigan, OSU, Nebraska....wow!

Now, about Clemson, NC State, Duke,...I'm less sure.

It seems reasonable to assume that if UC (or Rutgers) was in the Big Ten or ACC their teams would be better. They're not bad now...average among the ~ 120 FBS schools. But Big East FB has not ignited fan interest the way BE BB has. As for FB, the Big Ten and/or ACC,...a different story, I think. For now residents of CT, incl the governor, would just like to think there is a chance to join one of those conferences. No better than 50-50, me thinks.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the Huskies couldn't sell their allotment of BCS tickets last year and that is why I said that UConn (FB) fans don't travel well.
My AF base here in Phoenix received scores of free Fiesta Bowl tix last year in an attempt to "fill up the stadium". That did not occur the year before with Boise State & TCU. Word we received was UCONN didn't sell their allotment.

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Old 10-08-2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the Huskies couldn't sell their allotment of BCS tickets last year and that is why I said that UConn (FB) fans don't travel well.
Yup. UConn only sold 2,771 of 17,500 allotment. Cost them nearly 3 mil out of pocket for just the unsold tickets. I think that qualifies as "don't travel well".

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...n=ncaaf-328853
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  #430  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Yup. UConn only sold 2,771 of 17,500 allotment. Cost them nearly 3 mil out of pocket for just the unsold tickets. I think that qualifies as "don't travel well".

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...n=ncaaf-328853
Wow, that's not insignificant at all. I wonder if it reaches a point if you're UConn where this idea of trying to be a big-time BCS football school actually is a liability and it makes more financial sense to play at a lower level. Now it will probably be a while before UConn goes back to a BCS game, but how can they afford a multimillion dollar cost like that every time they get invited to such a bowl game?
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Wow, that's not insignificant at all. I wonder if it reaches a point if you're UConn where this idea of trying to be a big-time BCS football school actually is a liability and it makes more financial sense to play at a lower level. Now it will probably be a while before UConn goes back to a BCS game, but how can they afford a multimillion dollar cost like that every time they get invited to such a bowl game?
Don't schools get allotments for ANY bowl game they play in with the expectation that they'll sell the tix? If you can only sell 16 percent of your allotment to one of the crown jewels of college football, I can't imagine the Meineke Muffler Bowl is going to draw significant interest either.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:41 PM
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Per ud69's article, these BCS bowl games are a real racket. They make the schools pay well above-market prices for the tickets, and they make the schools buy x number of hotel rooms. Any sensibile person is not going to buy the tickets from the schools unless they feel like making a donation to the school as part of that ticket price, so the school then gets stuck with the unsold tickets.

I thought I heard that Ohio State lost money on the BCS National Championship Game in January 2008 vs. LSU in New Orleans. A playoff is long overdue, these BCS bowl games are just a big payday for the cities hosting them and for the people that run the bowl games that pay themselves big salaries. The BCS is terrible.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:09 PM
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denver post reporting air force likely to move football to big east and the rest of their sports to MVC
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:30 PM
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The MWC, at its peak a few years ago, was better than the Big East will be in the coming years. The Big East is crazy if they think these moves are going to save the conference's BCS autobid.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:49 PM
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Air force close to joing the Big East.
Story in the Denver Post today
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19073868

Play the Patriot card. Article says Air force turned down the Big12 because they didn't think they could compete in the Big 12.

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Old 10-09-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
The MWC, at its peak a few years ago, was better than the Big East will be in the coming years. The Big East is crazy if they think these moves are going to save the conference's BCS autobid.
And Air Force admitting they couldn't compete in the B12 won't help the BE cause either.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:17 PM
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ud2 is right..

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Per ud69's article, these BCS bowl games are a real racket. They make the schools pay well above-market prices for the tickets, and they make the schools buy x number of hotel rooms. Any sensibile person is not going to buy the tickets from the schools unless they feel like making a donation to the school as part of that ticket price, so the school then gets stuck with the unsold tickets.

I thought I heard that Ohio State lost money on the BCS National Championship Game in January 2008 vs. LSU in New Orleans. A playoff is long overdue, these BCS bowl games are just a big payday for the cities hosting them and for the people that run the bowl games that pay themselves big salaries. The BCS is terrible.
...the "tickets" are ticket packages including as many as three night is a hotel. UConn's net loss was about $1 million.

So, while more than 2700 UConn fans were in attendance, the game was not well attended by UConn fans. One might say UConn football fans don't travel well. In contrast, UConn has been in ten men's/women's Final Fours since 1995....and those events were packed with UC fans...difficult to get TX, in fact.

UConn averages about 37,500 for its home football games. The stadium holds 40,000....so most games are close to a sell-out....there have been a few sell-outs....and I'm pretty sure there has never been a crowd less than 30,000...less than 35,000 is unusual.

The issue is that UConn's FB teams have never been close to Top 10 teams.....rarely even Top 25.....about Top 40 since the school went FBS. That's not awful considering that there are ~ 120 FBS teams....but it's not an exciting level of play, that is for sure.

I'm pretty confident that if UConn (or Rutgers) became a perennial Top 25 team that the level of enthusiasm would rise to the level of basketball. Why not?.....teams that are in that category play exciting football.

I have attended essentially all UC FBS home games, incl a few WVA games. When WVA comes to CT the disparity in talent level is crystal clear. WVA is typically a Top 25 team....and when I've seen them play it was exciting FB. UConn has not yet come close to that level of play. Put UC or Rutgers in a power conference like the Big Ten or ACC and things will change.

It may be worth pointing out that the bottom 3-4 teams in the Big Ten or ACC don't play like West Virginia either.

On a matter of more importance.....put UD in a BB conference with, not one Xavier, but a few "Xaviers" every year, which is what a Big East BB conference with UD and X added would be.....and one of two things will happen. We'll always be just an average team; or somehow UD will step it up by way of recruiting, TV exposure, coaching, etc. Hopefully, it would be the latter.
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
denver post reporting air force likely to move football to big east and the rest of their sports to MVC
Wow, it is getting curiouser and curiouser! Air Force to the Big East for football. And AF hopes to bring Navy and Army along too.

Now, there were very few things I could have thought of this morning that would have saved Big East football. But this just might have been one of them. If it comes to pass will it save the BE's AQ status? That is very doubtful. But it just might keep the Big East in the football business, albeit at a MAC/CUSA-type level, for years to come.

And this might keep Villanova and Georgetown happy.......happy, happy, with football being played under the Big East banner.

Last edited by bobber; 10-09-2011 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
UConn averages about 37,500 for its home football games. The stadium holds 40,000....so most games are close to a sell-out....there have been a few sell-outs....and I'm pretty sure there has never been a crowd less than 30,000...less than 35,000 is unusual.
This is the other problem I see with UConn. Their football stadium is a bit too small for Big Ten play. I mean even Northwestern has a stadium that is close to 50,000 (although all of that space is usually occupied by the visiting fans who oftentimes come close to outnumbering NU fans at Ryan Field). Would their be room for expanding UConn's current stadium? Would there even be money/support to do so?
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Wow, it is getting curiouser and curiouser! Air Force to the Big East for football. And AF hopes to bring Navy and Army along too.

Now, there were very few things I could have thought of this morning that would have saved Big East football. But this just might have been one of them. If it comes to pass will it save the BE's AQ status? That is very doubtful. But it just might keep the Big East in the football business, albeit at a MAC/CUSA-type level, for years to come.

And this might keep Villanova and Georgetown happy.......happy, happy, with football being played under the Big East banner.
This conference would be a step above the MAC and CUSA for sure, but still not quite BCS caliber.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
By the way, more than one person with inside info has said that the ACC wanted UP and SU basketball, not their football teams. Except for FB UConn brings its other sports at the very highest level.
Both have pretty rich football histories, though, and fit the ACC more than any other Big East member did. And they weren't added for basketball. They were added to ensure the ACC almost entirely intact.

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
.....NE fans are not rabid...but they're not moribund either.

The cachet of the Big Ten and its teams is enormous. It's hard to imagine UConn fans not turning out to watch Michigan, OSU, Nebraska....wow!

Now, about Clemson, NC State, Duke,...I'm less sure.

It seems reasonable to assume that if UC (or Rutgers) was in the Big Ten or ACC their teams would be better. They're not bad now...average among the ~ 120 FBS schools.
But would UConn draw more fans to see them face Minnesota, Iowa and Indiana or Florida State, Miami and Virginia Tech?

I don't think it's reasonable to assume UConn would do better in the ACC/Big Ten. Not sure why recruiting would be better. It's not like joining a better conference would increase the number of potential recruits out there or decrease the number of schools going after those prospects.

If UConn is in a new conference, I'd think that'd mean other conferences have expanded beyond their current membership as well and that most/all of the current Big East schools have found new homes. So UConn wouldn't have a recruiting advantage over them in that regard. All would be receiving boosts in revenue, so there'd be no advantage there, either.

And no matter which conference UConn would join, they'd have less football history, tradition and fan support than pretty much any other member in their conference. Although attendance should increase a bit due to better teams/competition coming in, it may or may not drop after awhile if/when UConn settles into the middle of the pack/bottom half of either conference.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Wow, it is getting curiouser and curiouser! Air Force to the Big East for football. And AF hopes to bring Navy and Army along too.

Now, there were very few things I could have thought of this morning that would have saved Big East football. But this just might have been one of them. If it comes to pass will it save the BE's AQ status? That is very doubtful. But it just might keep the Big East in the football business, albeit at a MAC/CUSA-type level, for years to come.

And this might keep Villanova and Georgetown happy.......happy, happy, with football being played under the Big East banner.
I don't see how that saves the Big East anymore than Houston, UCF, Memphis, etc would. It's not going to stop any school from leaving for an SEC, ACC or Big XII offer. And as long as those conferences didn't poach anymore teams, it was pretty much guaranteed the Big East would add somebody, ANYBODY to get back up to 8 or more.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:37 AM
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Big East making a final push.

"The Big East is apparently ready to make one final push to keep its embattled football league together. With the defections of Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the Atlantic Coast Conference, with TCU, who had been scheduled to join the league next season as a full member moving to the Big 12,and with Louisville apparently ready to join the Horned Frogs in moving to the Big 12, the Big East options seemed limited.

But that may change. According to sources in the Big East, the conference is looking at a plan which will invite Navy, Air Force and Boise State into the league as members in football only as well as Temple and Central Florida as members in all sports. The possibility of adding Villanova as the 12th team in football is also being discussed."

http://www.boston.com/sports/college...ast_ready.html
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
"The Big East is apparently ready to make one final push to keep its embattled football league together. With the defections of Syracuse and Pittsburgh to the Atlantic Coast Conference, with TCU, who had been scheduled to join the league next season as a full member moving to the Big 12,and with Louisville apparently ready to join the Horned Frogs in moving to the Big 12, the Big East options seemed limited.

But that may change. According to sources in the Big East, the conference is looking at a plan which will invite Navy, Air Force and Boise State into the league as members in football only as well as Temple and Central Florida as members in all sports. The possibility of adding Villanova as the 12th team in football is also being discussed."

http://www.boston.com/sports/college...ast_ready.html
AQ status...buh bye.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
AQ status...buh bye.
are you sure?

boise would instantly makes the big east better than it has ever been.

boise/navy >>>>>>>>> pitt/cuse
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:51 AM
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This all appears to be an effort in futility. UAC obviously tries to make as good a case that a strong proponent and fan of the Huskies program would make, but as the Big Ten commissioner stated, he needs a "compelling case" to add a school to his conference not just "a case", and, IMO, UConn appears wanting. It is, after all, football that is the motivating force behind these moves (and the TV money that goes with it) and the Huskies program is not up to snuff. Nobody outside of the Nutmeg state really cares about Husky FB. The Northeast is not college football country and, to the extent it does care, it cares about ND and maybe Penn State. As for the BE retaining it's BCS AQ status, I don't believe the Service Academies (or any of the other schools being mentioned at the moment) will save their bacon. Yes, maybe they'll "save" BE football as a league, but c'mon, who really thinks this conglomeration of schools is any more desirable than the Mountain West or CUSA would be. Plus, why would the remaining five BCS AQ Conferences (and the Bowl Committees), assuming the Big XII survives, want to include the "new" and unimproved BE, when they could share a bigger piece of the FB revenue pie among themselves? I guess stranger things have happened, but BE FB lost a lot of it's swagger when Miami, Va Tech and BC left for the ACC and now that Pitt and 'Cuse are history, it looks to be doomed as a major conference.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:32 AM
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BC blocks UConn...

An article in today's Boston Globe quotes BC AD Gene DeFillipo as saying that the ACC wanted UConn and Syracuse...not Pitt...but that BC blocked UConn's entry into the ACC. "It's a turf issue", DeFillipo said; "We want BC as the only New England ACC member". Most feel DeFillipo is still reacting to the 6-7 year old bitterness between BC and UConn when BC left the BE for the ACC.

UConn's new president has nothing but kind words for BC. And CT's governor has a BS and law degree from BC....that may help break the ice at some point. But, for now and the foreseeable future it appears as if the "Jesuits" are at war with UConn.

(I have heard from others that DeFillipo is a weasel...I know nothing about the guy. As for the proximity of schools...currently there are ACC schools so close you can walk from one to the other.)
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
are you sure?

boise would instantly makes the big east better than it has ever been.

boise/navy >>>>>>>>> pitt/cuse
Better than ever? Better than the Pitt/Syracuse/Miami/Virginia Tech/Boston College days?
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:21 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=3&ref=sports

A10 staying active
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Better than ever? Better than the Pitt/Syracuse/Miami/Virginia Tech/Boston College days?
you're right, forgot about those days.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:15 PM
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What a clusterfudge.

Can we get the CAA to take St. Bonaventure and LaSalle off our hands?
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  #452  
Old 10-10-2011, 03:37 PM
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Is it just me, or does the Air Force AD come across as a real yokel? "Gollleeee, we can be in the Big East!"
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
What a clusterfudge.

Can we get the CAA to take St. Bonaventure and LaSalle off our hands?
And Fordham. Then add one team to get back to twelve, where we belong.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:57 PM
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Does anyone know why the Big East turned down a billion dollar deal from ESPN in May? That sounds pretty stupid unless there are compelling reasons that are not obvious. This article (and Jim Boeheim) says that is the main reason Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East for the ACC (and that ESPN influenced the decision). Interesting that the A-10 is interested in George Mason and VCU. Maybe we could make a trade.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Is it just me, or does the Air Force AD come across as a real yokel? "Gollleeee, we can be in the Big East!"
I think its more telling of the desperation of the Big East. The comments coming out of Colorado Springs seem to indicate that they realize BCS title dreams are not what they're playing for, but a conference w/ the other acadamies would be ideal w/ an easier path to BCS glory should we be lucky enough.

Can't blame them for that view, its not realistic for them to think they can compete on the same level as Texas, OU or Okie State. The have too many obstacles and a much different objective as a univesity to have those kind of goals. However, that they feel like they can compete w/ UConn, South Florida, Temple, ECU, etc.. should give pause to the non football schools in granting expansion in the name of football.

I wonder how this affects the previously proposed talks b/w C-USA and the mountain west of a joint conference champion, with the winner gaining BCS status. It almost feels like so many of these schools are jumping at the bit to get somewhere else, with out giving consideration that they're best place may be where they're at. There is no garuntee that the Big East has a future in the BCS any more than the MAC has today. Until the ACC, SEC, P12 & B10 go to a 16 team setup, it seems like there is room for one more conference, somewhere of teams that can compete on a similar level as the middle of those conferences most seasons, and near the top for stretches. The problem seems that those schools most ideally situated for that conference are spread across every corner of the country. Perhaps a true, footall only conference under no banner of any other conference is what is needed Something that stretches coast to coast:

Even better, divide all remaining schools into 3 conferences, and go premier league soccer style, finish in the top 2, you move up, finish in the bottom 2 and you fall down a level. Now that would be exciting.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Does anyone know why the Big East turned down a billion dollar deal from ESPN in May? That sounds pretty stupid unless there are compelling reasons that are not obvious. This article (and Jim Boeheim) says that is the main reason Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East for the ACC (and that ESPN influenced the decision). Interesting that the A-10 is interested in George Mason and VCU. Maybe we could make a trade.
There is talk out there that NBC is interested in becoming more of a player in college football, beyond just Notre Dame, perhaps influenced by Notre Dame potentially joining a conference at some point. Perhaps the theory was, hold out for another season with TCU in the fold officially and perhaps another football addition or 2 and you could create some competition b/w ABC/ESPN & NBC to get you more money than you could under that deal. In hindsight, perhaps that wasn't such a smart decision for the conference. However, I wonder if anyone knew of things in the works to shift conferences, possibly giving an advantage to themselves and their future conferences (syracuse & Pitt) and put enough monkey wrenches in the works to push off the deal and potentially kill the conference they're about to depart.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:15 PM
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I don't see any reason for the Big East basketball schools to continue to "hang on" to the football schools if the Big East loses its BCS status, which is very likely to happen if they add schools like Air Force, Navy, East Carolina, Temple, and Central Florida. I just don't see an advantage for Georgetown and Villanova to remain in a football conference that won't be much better than the MAC or Conference USA.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by clevelandflyer05 View Post
what a clusterfudge.

Can we get the caa to take st. Bonaventure and lasalle off our hands?
pretty pretty please//??
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:24 PM
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Boise State and TCU have both made it into the BCS bowls in recent years, so there is room (albeit not much) for non AQ conference schools to get into the mix. The bottom line seems to be that the Bowl Committees all want to invite teams from conferences that have large followings and that draw well, which is why ND gets an exemption as an Independent. If a WVa or Rutgers or UConn (etc.) can break into the top 12 ranked teams by the end of any given season, they can be invited as well...there is no need, and perhaps not much desire anymore, for them to be considered an AQ conference.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:09 PM
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Presented without comment.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_yl...big12-missouri
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
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The future of conferences

Here is an interesting question. What happens if in the current landscape we somehow remove conferences from college football? Everyone is on their own to negotiate tv rights, games, etc.? Would this really work?

The downside is that the rich would get extremely richer. However, would that solve the end all problem of backstabbing other teams(i.e. conference jumping)? I realize that it may be years down the line, but with the Longhorn Network already out there, who is to stop the Sooner Network, the Trojan Network, the Buckeye Network, the Wolverine Network, etc. I think that it could completely change the landscape, but isn't the idea of 4 mega conferences already doing that?

Just remember as well, it wasn't that long ago that we didn't have regional sports networks to watch every baseball game of a local team(like FoxSports Ohio).
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
. . . Can we get the CAA to take St. Bonaventure and LaSalle off our hands?
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And Fordham. Then add one team to get back to twelve, where we belong.
The Patriot League might be looking to replace the service academies, if the rumors of Army and Navy joining the Big Least come to fruition. A great home for Fordham & LaSalle. I wouldn't be so quick to ditch the Bonnies, though - they will probably give the Flyers all they can handle this year (and the Southern Tier Brewery is only 45 miles west of Olean, NY).

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Old 10-10-2011, 11:58 PM
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Posted without comment.

http://www.boston.com/sports/college...t_ready_1.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/o...-schools-.html

Last edited by bobber; 10-11-2011 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports View Post
I realize that it may be years down the line, but with the Longhorn Network already out there, who is to stop the Sooner Network, the Trojan Network, the Buckeye Network, the Wolverine Network, etc.
Just more crap I have to skip over on DirecTV. Put it near QVC so I can avoid that whole block of channels.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:41 AM
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So if you're the Big 10, Pac-12, or SEC and you have three teams in the top 15 and the Big Least with none, how agreeable are you going to be to letting this glorified Conference USA have a seat at the big boys table and take a BCS bowl slot that could (and should) go to the third best team in your conference?

BSU would be wise to stay away from this slow motion train wreck.
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  #466  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:22 AM
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And why would Villanova want to risk an investment in their football program for this?
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:40 AM
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Apparently, VU is still considering it...

Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
And why would Villanova want to risk an investment in their football program for this?
....according to the Philly papers. Temple and VU may wind up playing BE FB.

Food for thought: Knowing what's going on, considering the investment, and the huge uncertainty,....if VU still decides to upgrade FB to FBS, that will tell us how critically important Villanova thinks FBS FB is to a school's overall athletics program.

There is no other reason,....not a single one,...why VU would even consider FBS football except for its importance to VU sports generally and men's BB in particular.

Is VU's assessment correct? I don't know.....if it is that surely does not bode well for non-FB schools like UD. VU seems convinced, as are others, that in the future Div 1 college athletics will have two tiers,...one comprised of FBS football schools and one that is not. In recent years even the FBS FB schools were divided...BCS and non-BCS, as we all know. The BCS sctructure is likely to change along with conference realignment...but it's still likely that there will be FBS "haves" and "have-nots".
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:16 AM
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I think if the Big East can land both Boise and BYU, then at least for the short term, the Big East will retain aq status. If the Big East only gets one of those two, then I'm not sure that the Big East retains aq status. Boise and BYU together right now are significantly better overall than Pitt and Syracuse. If you just take only Boise or BYU, along with the others(Air Force, Navy, Temple, UCF, and maybe Villanova), then Pitt and Syracuse are better overall. If the Big East lands Boise and BYU, then I don't see how the Big East can fairly be denied aq status. Air Force has also been fairly good through the years.

# of different years ranked in college football:

Air Force: 10 times from 1983-2011, Air Force was last ranked in 2010
Navy: 3 times from 1978-2011, Navy was last ranked in 2004
UCF: only ranked once in entire program history in 2010
Temple: only ranked once from 1979-2011 in 1979
Boise: ranked every year from 2002-2011
BYU: ranked 24 times from 1974-2011

Pitt: ranked 23 times from 1974-2011
Syracuse: ranked 13 times from 1987-2011

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/index.cfm

Long term, if there is more realignment and the Big East loses more teams, I don't know if the Big East can retain its aq status. The Big East has to hope that its new members improve enough to have the Big East retain its aq status long term in order to offset the event of more teams leaving the Big East in the future.

Temple and Villanova both in the Big East in football seems like a bad decision. I can't see there being enough demand in Philly to support both teams.

Last edited by ud2; 10-11-2011 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:54 AM
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Of the service academies, it sounds like Air Force is the only one keen on the idea of joining the Big East. If the other service academies won't go, I don't know that Air Force would want to go.

If they are trying to get to 12, and the Big East still likes the idea of expanding into Texas, it wouldn't shock me to see them go after SMU and Houston.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
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IMO the entire reason for this reshuffling is to pull some chairs from the BCS table as a precursor to the next step.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:14 PM
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Big East Conference Struggling to Retain its BCS AQ Status:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tus/index.html
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  #472  
Old 10-11-2011, 12:26 PM
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Hasnt the hybrid conference model already proven unsustainable? Now the Big East is looking into a thrybrid system:

All sports ex Syracuse
No sports EXCEPT football ex AFA
All sports BUT football ex Notre Dame

Train meet wreck.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
AQ status...buh bye.
Here's the thing. There is nothing in writing anywhere that states what a conference must do in order to keep it's BCS AQ status. It mentions specifically how a non-AQ conference can become an AQ conference, but it also indicates that they would be brought in as a 7th member. Not as a replacement for one of the current six members. There is also brief mention on evaluating the conferences, but there is nothing specifically stated as to who is evaluating them, what they're evaluating, and what is and is not considered too low.

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819597

When it comes to a BCS AQ conference losing a bid, it sounds to me like they're being intentionally unspecific. The reason is that if specific standards aren't set, then a league won't lose its bid if they fail to meet them. I'm expecting the Big East to keep its bid so long as they have seven teams.

Am I overly cynical?? Maybe, but this is the BCS we're talking about. Yeah, UConn didn't sell their tickets, but why should the Fiesta Bowl care?? UConn had to buy them, so it wasn't as if they lost any money. The Big East is part of the BCS. They were among the entities that created it. I think that they've made sure that they didn't create a system that they could ever potentially not be a part of. They don't have to "justify" retaining their AQ status. There are no specific standards that I can see that they are required to meet. Sure, they'll "Be Evaluated." On what, and by who...well...no one knows.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Does anyone know why the Big East turned down a billion dollar deal from ESPN in May? That sounds pretty stupid unless there are compelling reasons that are not obvious. This article (and Jim Boeheim) says that is the main reason Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East for the ACC (and that ESPN influenced the decision). Interesting that the A-10 is interested in George Mason and VCU. Maybe we could make a trade.
I didn't realize it was a billion dollars, but it's my understanding that the hope was to create a bidding war between ESPN and Fox. It was actually Pitt that led the charge to turn it down. Now Pitt is leaving, and since the league is so unstable they're not getting any offers of any kind at the moment. I'm sure the rest of the league is absolutely thrilled about that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Big East Conference Struggling to Retain its BCS AQ Status:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tus/index.html
interesting:
Perhaps the league has already resigned itself to the inevitable. Perhaps it's already moved past trying to preserve its favored status. Perhaps it's just looking for a viable way for its remaining programs to keep playing football.
If so, we've reached the part of the reality show where the subjects become too depressing to keep laughing.


This is something I haven't thought of. Perhaps they're just angling right now for a way for Villinova & GU to keep their games vs Louisville, UConn & WVU, while at the same time, giving Louisville, UConn & WVU a glimmer of a hope in retaining their BCS status.

I wonder at what point, the non football schools dust their hands of it, and say "no to expansion for football sake" How much say do they have in a football only addition? I know its been reported that the 12 team SEC needed 9 "yes" votes to accept aTm, does the Big East require a similar 75% approval for full membership? Could Providence, Seton Hall, St Johns, DePaul & Marquette band together and vote down anyone that doesn't add to their current basketball situation? Perhaps that explains the mention of Villinova as the 12th football team. How much sense does it make to have both 'Nova & Temple playing football in the same conference, presumably sharing the same stadium?

Here's what I know, the SEC stands at 13 starting next year. 13 teams is a poor number in general, even more so in football attempting to split into 2 divisions. A 14th team is needed; all signs point to that 14th team being Missouri. Louisville seems to be the choice to replace Missouri in the B12 if/when they leave. Even if Missouri stays pat, WVU would appear to be next in line for the SEC bid. Either way, the Big East appears to lose 1 of their better supported programs. How far back are they willing to back fill?

Additionally, what's the point in going to 12 teams? To get a conference championship game? How much money is that going to be worth? Far less than the B10, SEC or ACC championship games. enough to offset the loss in revenues by spliting the pot 12 ways rather than 9 or 10?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I didn't realize it was a billion dollars, but it's my understanding that the hope was to create a bidding war between ESPN and Fox. It was actually Pitt that led the charge to turn it down. Now Pitt is leaving, and since the league is so unstable they're not getting any offers of any kind at the moment. I'm sure the rest of the league is absolutely thrilled about that.
Perhaps it was planned by Pitt. How best to ensure a renegotiated contract w/ the ACC than to ensure there isn't a billion dollars sitting out there tied up in the Big East deal.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Does anyone know why the Big East turned down a billion dollar deal from ESPN in May? That sounds pretty stupid unless there are compelling reasons that are not obvious. This article (and Jim Boeheim) says that is the main reason Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East for the ACC (and that ESPN influenced the decision). Interesting that the A-10 is interested in George Mason and VCU. Maybe we could make a trade.
i always found it interesting that Richmond, UMass, and URI play football in the CAA and basketball in the A10, while teams without football also play in the CAA.

the trade you suggest makes perfect logical sense, though its probably a wash. richmond and URI for VCU and GMU.
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  #478  
Old 10-11-2011, 03:08 PM
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Tentative Big East division split has Rutgers, Temple, UConn, USF, Central Florida and maybe Navy. West Virginia, Air Force, SMU, Houston, Louisville and Cincinnati would comprise the other division.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...vision_sp.html
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:12 PM
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to say that is an awful football conference would be an understatement. One program that has some history of success (WVU).
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
to say that is an awful football conference would be an understatement. One program that has some history of success (WVU).
Well, that's not entirely true. SMU for one certainly has a history of success. It's just ancient history. 10 Southwest Conference Championships before 1984 and they claim a national championship. I'd say the West Division is okay, but that East Division is really, really awful.

Last edited by DallasFlyer; 10-11-2011 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:29 PM
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SMU went from nothing to cheating and had a short run of success under Meyer and Ross in the 80s. Seeing as they were turning cheating into an art form it is hard to give them much credit for the Pony Express.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:35 PM
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IMO everyone is waiting to see what Missouri does. It is really hard to conjure up a scenario where the next version of the BE will be able to keep their BCS football status.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
SMU went from nothing to cheating and had a short run of success under Meyer and Ross in the 80s. Seeing as they were turning cheating into an art form it is hard to give them much credit for the Pony Express.
I'm with you. I was talking more about really ancient history. Like the Doak Walker days. But it's besides the point. West Virginia is the only one that's a perennial top 25 team.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:26 PM
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The non-football Big East teams appear to be willing to jump though flaming hoops while coated in nitroglycerine in order to keep an affiliation with BCS schools and BCS football money.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
The non-football Big East teams appear to be willing to jump though flaming hoops while coated in nitroglycerine in order to keep an affiliation with BCS schools and BCS football money.
they will sit tight until they get a better offer. On the basketball side ESPN still is going to pay out a lot of money to TV the games. If they bolt they will be starting from scratch. Might be a better decision long term but in the short term they will stay and take ESPNs money.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
The non-football Big East teams appear to be willing to jump though flaming hoops while coated in nitroglycerine in order to keep an affiliation with BCS schools and BCS football money.
I am not entirely sure that the non-football BE (basketball only) schools share ANY of the money generated by the football playing schools. I asked about this in another thread and no one responded. It is my understanding that the football schools DO NOT share with the basketball only schools. You can't tell me that Notre Dame gets any money from the football schools. If it is true that the other basketball only schools receive no money from the football schools, if I were a basketball only school I would be concerned about what happens to UConn West Virginia, Cincinnati and Louisville.

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Old 10-11-2011, 06:43 PM
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It is the association with the BE FB schools....

....that is so valuable to the BB schools. Villanova considers UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, WVA to be its "peers" and has said so.

Without the Big East Villanova would have about as much success getting Uconn to play at the Pavillion as UD would have getting UConn to the Arena. In the Big East the likes of Providence and Seton Hall,....think about that, Providence and Seton Hall,.....have had UConn, WVA, Pitt, Syracuse playing in their buildings.

That association elevates the BB programs of those little Catholic schools to the highest level. Absent the connection with the national BB powers that are FBS FB schools, the BB-only schools drop a large notch.

In its argument for upgrading to FBS FB one VU publication advocating the upgrade pointed out that if the FB schools split from the BB schools VU will wind up like Dayton. Dayton! They actually used us as an example of how bad it would be if VU didn't stick with the FB schools.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:50 PM
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I understand all that, UAC. It makes perfect sense. BUT do the basketball only schools get any money from the football schools?
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
I understand all that, UAC. It makes perfect sense. BUT do the basketball only schools get any money from the football schools?
And what good is it going to do for the basketball schools to be associated with schools like Air Force, East Carolina, Central Florida, South Florida, Navy, and Temple, if it comes down to that? I'm sure Villanova doesn't consider East Carolina and Central Florida to be their peers. That was my previous question - would Villanova, et al, continue to hang onto the football schools if the conference lost its BCS status.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And what good is it going to do for the basketball schools to be associated with schools like Air Force, East Carolina, Central Florida, South Florida, Navy, and Temple, if it comes down to that? I'm sure Villanova doesn't consider East Carolina and Central Florida to be their peers. That was my previous question - would Villanova, et al, continue to hang onto the football schools if the conference lost its BCS status.

If the conference lost its BCS status.....but was still comprised of the likes of UConn, West Virginia, Cincinnatti and Louisville....you bet the BB-Catholics would stick with the Big East.....incl a BE with the new schools you mentioned.

What would Dayton do to have UC, WVU, Cincy and UL at the Arena year-in-and-year out?...meaning much more TV....meaning association with some of the very best BB programs in the country. These are not A10 schools longtimer. How tough do you think it would be to get a TX for an Arena game against the current national champion?

The loss of Pitt and SU is big for BE BB. But the remaining BE BB schools are among the best programs in the country. Now, if UL and UC wind up in the Big 12....and WVA in the SEC...and UConn in the ACC,...clearly, then the game is over for the BE-Catholics. And that may very well happen.

So the answer is simple. As long as the BE-Catholics benefit from the association with the BE FB schools they will stick with them...BCS or not.

But, it is clear that the benefit may be short-lived. If the rumors re UL and UC and the Big 12 are true....and/or WVU and the SEC,...the BE basketball powers may well be scattered. A tipping point may soon be reached...when it is Priders will see it about as quickly as the BE BB schools.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:42 PM
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Several disconnected thoughts.

As for the military academies joining the Big East, this seems to be folly to me, especially for Air Force which is 2/3 of the way across the country. And answer me this: My tax dollars support the armed services and their academies, correct? Then, if Army, Navy and Air Force all join the Big East and things fail to work out, am I, the taxpayer, the one that gets stuck paying the (now) 5 Million dollar exit fee for each of the academies when they leave the Big East? In fact, am I now the one who will pay the exit fee for Air Force to leave the perfectly sensible Mountain West Conference so it can bask in the fading glow of the quickly declining Big East?

This is horse pucky. Fifteen million dollars for a lark, so the AD of the Air Force Academy can have an ego trip? If this happens, Congress should deduct the requisite amounts from each academies overall budget.

Secondly, does anyone in their right mind expect the power conferences to sit still for more than a few short weeks, months or years before they expand again? Of course Louisville, West Virginia, UConn, Rutgers and even Cincinnati are all going to be in a BCS conference in a few years, if not months. This hodge-podge 12 team Big East football conference is going nowhere.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:04 PM
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ACC, SEC. Big 12, mercifully end this!

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Several disconnected thoughts.

As for the military academies joining the Big East, this seems to be folly to me, especially for Air Force which is 2/3 of the way across the country. And answer me this: My tax dollars support the armed services and their academies, correct? Then, if Army, Navy and Air Force all join the Big East and things fail to work out, am I, the taxpayer, the one that gets stuck paying the (now) 5 Million dollar exit fee for each of the academies when they leave the Big East? In fact, am I now the one who will pay the exit fee for Air Force to leave the perfectly sensible Mountain West Conference so it can bask in the fading glow of the quickly declining Big East?

This is horse pucky. Fifteen million dollars for a lark, so the AD of the Air Force Academy can have an ego trip? If this happens, Congress should deduct the requisite amounts from each academies overall budget.

Secondly, does anyone in their right mind expect the power conferences to sit still for more than a few short weeks, months or years before they expand again? Of course Louisville, West Virginia, UConn, Rutgers and even Cincinnati are all going to be in a BCS conference in a few years, if not months. This hodge-podge 12 team Big East football conference is going nowhere.
Re your last sentence.....the Big East FB conference could be rendered a merciful death if the three involved power conferences acted swiftly. Right now there are six BE FB schools with a plan to grow to 10-12. But, if in the next week-to-ten days the Big 12 would invite UL and UC....and the SEC would invite WVU.....the charade would end. Rutgers, So Fla and UConn are not a FB conference.....those would be the guys left standing when the music stopped playing.

But, if the power conferences drag this out by doing nothing for the forseeable future, that might provide sufficient time for the remaining six BE FB schools to find 4-6 more FB schools and at the same time increase the exit penalties so that it will be very painful to leave....possible, of course, but very, very painful.

So, it seems to me that the shape of this saga rests just about entirely in the hands of power conferences and their timetable for additional action. I don't think they can wait too long. (And, oh, how I would love to see the SEC surprise us all and go after FSU instead of Missouri or WVU.)
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
The non-football Big East teams appear to be willing to jump though flaming hoops while coated in nitroglycerine in order to keep an affiliation with BCS schools and BCS football money.
I'm pretty sure they only receive basketball money.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:18 PM
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Oh, how sweet it is!

Boston College AD, Gene DiFilippo's rant to the Boston Globe re UConn and the ACC has had major reprecussions, resulting today in a letter of apology from DiFilippo to all the presidents and ADs in the ACC.

You will recall that DiFilippo's remarks had the following elements: 1) I hate UConn; 2) We want BC to be the only ACC team in New England...it's our turf; 3) the ACC really wanted SU and UConn, not Pitt; 4) I blocked UConn; 5) ESPN wanted SU and Pitt.

It's item #5 that blew the lid off the kettle, indicating that ESPN is calling the shots for a major conference supposedly controlled by university presidents. Moreover, ESPN is a Connecticut company that has been given millions in incentives by the CT taxpayers. Boing!!!! That did it!

Not only would such ESPN behavior harmful to UConn infuriate CT taxpayers, it would be illegal. So, BC's Gene DiFilippo may actually have done more to get UConn in the ACC than anything UConn could have done itself...and now BC, maybe the ACC and surely ESPN are doing some mighty fast back- pedaling along with damage control.

And don't forget...Boston College is not just another college...it is one of the most prominent Catholic, Jesuit universities in the U.S., arguably, second only to Notre Dame.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
If the conference lost its BCS status.....but was still comprised of the likes of UConn, West Virginia, Cincinnati and Louisville....you bet the BB-Catholics would stick with the Big East.....incl a BE with the new schools you mentioned.
I guess my comment wasn't clear. I was assuming some or all of those schools would be gone (as rumored), leaving the Big East football conference not much better than the MAC or Conference USA. If all four of those schools remained in the Big East along with Rutgers and South Florida, I doubt it would lose its BCS status.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:36 PM
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I agree,....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I guess my comment wasn't clear. I was assuming some or all of those schools would be gone (as rumored), leaving the Big East football conference not much better than the MAC or Conference USA. If all four of those schools remained in the Big East along with Rutgers and South Florida, I doubt it would lose its BCS status.
....if the four remaining BE BB powers scattered there would seem to be no reason for the BB Catholics to remain attached to the FB schools.

One can envision this playing out rather quickly,...weeks,....or staying pretty much the same for a few years. The SEC might add a team....probably will. If it's UM it might end there. The Big 12 is being pressured by legislators to add teams from its general region that are not now in BCS conferences. If that were to happen, leaving the BiG East alone, that would give the BE time to rebuild and stabilize over a few years.

And meanwhile, ND is a wild card....independent, ACC or Big Ten. If ND senses that the BE will stabilize and retain its BB powers, why not stick with the BE? If ND senses that the BE is doomed and along with that home for its BB and other sports, that may force ND into a conference.

Here's a thought: Brew has always claimed that BB and the Olympic sports in the BE Catholics are good enough for ND...and that ND would stay with the BB-only schools. If that's true, or at least reasonable, ND might take the lead and "suggest" to the BB Catholics that it's time to break away, form a good BB conference comprised of the seven plus ND and a few others. Perhaps the TV money would be decent...split among 10-12 schools instead of 17 or 18 or whatever number the BE now is.

One of the things that has plagued the BE is lack of leadership on all fronts. The BE is always reacting instead of being proactive. If one of the Catholics were to assume a leadership role for the BB-only schools that might be beneficial. But so far the BB schools seem willing to just ride out the storm.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:45 PM
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The Big East is on course to end up equal to the A10 in basketball. They're supposedly adding Temple, UCF, and ECU to bring the football numbers back up. All that will work fine in the short term, as they'll (still) have a bad BCS conference in football, and a still strong basketball league with UConn, Cincy, Louisville, Nova, Gtown, Marquette, Notre Dame, Temple, WVU. Not as good as when Cuse and Pitt were in, but still quite excellent.

Then in two years (or perhaps two months) Cincy, Louisville, WVU, UConn, and Rutgers move on. Football is worthless if not dead. Nova (maybe), Temple, Air Force, Army, Navy, ECU, UCF, USF. Blech. Who do they add next? UMass? Charlotte? Marshall? Buffalo?

And basketball? If (when) ND and BYU join the Big 12 as non-football members (my guess)...Temple, Nova, Gtown, Marquette, and a bunch of scrubs. Double blech.

And one thing I've been wondering...why isn't Memphis being mentioned for Big 12 or Big East? Are they that poisonous? I know their football is atrocious, but that hasn't exactly been a hurdle for the Big East lately.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:06 AM
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Desperate, yes, but....

Originally Posted by sheg View Post
The Big East is on course to end up equal to the A10 in basketball. They're supposedly adding Temple, UCF, and ECU to bring the football numbers back up. All that will work fine in the short term, as they'll (still) have a bad BCS conference in football, and a still strong basketball league with UConn, Cincy, Louisville, Nova, Gtown, Marquette, Notre Dame, Temple, WVU. Not as good as when Cuse and Pitt were in, but still quite excellent.

Then in two years (or perhaps two months) Cincy, Louisville, WVU, UConn, and Rutgers move on. Football is worthless if not dead. Nova (maybe), Temple, Air Force, Army, Navy, ECU, UCF, USF. Blech. Who do they add next? UMass? Charlotte? Marshall? Buffalo?

And basketball? If (when) ND and BYU join the Big 12 as non-football members (my guess)...Temple, Nova, Gtown, Marquette, and a bunch of scrubs. Double blech.

And one thing I've been wondering...why isn't Memphis being mentioned for Big 12 or Big East? Are they that poisonous? I know their football is atrocious, but that hasn't exactly been a hurdle for the Big East lately.

.....I don't think that the Big East is so desperate that it will take any school that wants in, e.g., ECU, Memphis. I think there are enough reasonable possibilites that the Big East is still in a position to consider academics and research. We'll see.....but I'm betting that ECU will not be invited to join the Big East.

I can think of a situation for which the BE might be willing to "compromise" when it comes to academics, i.e., a school that is very, very strong in FB...a Boise State. But the geography makes no sense.

I always thought that UCF was a good fit with USF as a partner...and Houston a good choice with TCU as a partner. Now with TCU gone would both UH and SMU be considered? There is strong legislative pressure to get those two into the Big 12.

The BE has no choice but to act quickly...we won't have to wait long. (By the way, the current BCS contract extends through the 2013 season....2+ seasons away.)
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
I am not entirely sure that the non-football BE (basketball only) schools share ANY of the money generated by the football playing schools. I asked about this in another thread and no one responded. It is my understanding that the football schools DO NOT share with the basketball only schools. You can't tell me that Notre Dame gets any money from the football schools. If it is true that the other basketball only schools receive no money from the football schools, if I were a basketball only school I would be concerned about what happens to UConn West Virginia, Cincinnati and Louisville.
It is also my understanding that the Big East football schools do not share any of the money generated by their football programs with the basketball-only schools.

http://friarblog.com/2011/09/17/conf...-east-in-flux/

"Certainly there is a value attributable to the caché of a football/basketball Big East but the basketball only schools do not directly benefit from football money, so perhaps the financial hit is not drastic."

I do not see the point of the Big East basketball-only schools splitting away from the Big East football schools. Some of the football schools, such as Cincinnati, Louisville, UConn, and West Virginia, also have good basketball programs. Rutgers and South Florida aren't as good as the other 4 in basketball. Why would the basketball-only schools want to be in a league without those 4? That makes no sense. The basketball-only schools are happy to have those 4 in their league.

Last edited by ud2; 10-12-2011 at 12:32 AM..
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:02 AM
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Big 12 staying at 10 members for 2012.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ap-big12future

The Big 12 says it is done expanding for now, so the Big 12 stays at 10 for the 2012 season, losing Texas A&M but adding TCU. Missouri's status is still up in the air.

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
As for the military academies joining the Big East, this seems to be folly to me, especially for Air Force which is 2/3 of the way across the country. And answer me this: My tax dollars support the armed services and their academies, correct? Then, if Army, Navy and Air Force all join the Big East and things fail to work out, am I, the taxpayer, the one that gets stuck paying the (now) 5 Million dollar exit fee for each of the academies when they leave the Big East? In fact, am I now the one who will pay the exit fee for Air Force to leave the perfectly sensible Mountain West Conference so it can bask in the fading glow of the quickly declining Big East?
The service academies to the Big East makes sense if the Big East retains aq status, otherwise if the Big East loses aq status, I agree, it doesn't seem to make much sense. If the Big East loses its aq status, then I agree about the exit fees being a waste.

Last edited by ud2; 10-12-2011 at 01:10 AM..
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