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06-27-2012, 03:19 PM
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BRob to play with New Orleans Hornets
Brian Roberts is slated to play with eventual #1 draft pick Anthony Davis in the NBA Summer League in Las Vegas, July 13-22.
Little birdie told me, they are very interested in BRob and he should get a lot of minutes at point guard. With a good showing he has a great shot in making their roster. They are in grave need of a point guard with his set of skills.
BRob will get great exposure playing along side the #1 draft pick. It is setting up for a big summer for the former Dayton Flyer.
http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba...-in-vegas.html
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06-27-2012, 03:58 PM
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I hope this works out for him. Would be great to have 3 Flyers in the NBA.
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06-27-2012, 04:44 PM
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I would love to see BRob get a shot at the NBA. He is as dead-eye a shooter as the A10 has ever produced. BG could really develop players.
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06-27-2012, 08:40 PM
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Good luck BRob! It would be great to see another flyer in the NBA. It was a lot of fun following Chris this year and I would love to follow Brian in the league.
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06-27-2012, 08:42 PM
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Great to learn this. I have to admit that I hoped that he would get an opportunity to show his skills as a shooting guard.
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06-27-2012, 08:56 PM
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06-27-2012, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by udx2
Great to learn this. I have to admit that I hoped that he would get an opportunity to show his skills as a shooting guard.
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I had thought at one time he might have been able to catch on somewhere but would have figured the NBA was off his radar now after some successful years in Europe. Glad to hear he's going to try for his dream.
It takes a lot to get me excited about the NBA. Chris Wright's continued success and CJ making a roster would be a good start, but if Brian Roberts is in the league, I'm in. One hundred percent dialed in.
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07-02-2012, 04:54 PM
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07-02-2012, 05:06 PM
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I couldn't understand a word the announcers were saying, but it sure sounded good. The man can still flat out shoot the rock!
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07-16-2012, 01:31 AM
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BRob looked pretty good tonite! Outshined Austin Rivers, I thought..He and Lillard were the two best guards on the floor..
The fact that the Hornets inserted him in there at the end, aside Rivers shows that they have a lot of confidence in him..
BRob played just as much at 2guard as PG..which was surprising..he looked comfortable at both positions..
Tomorrow same time versus Milwaukee Bucks..
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07-16-2012, 08:40 AM
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Brob
Anybody know what his stat line was....sounds promising so far including last night......thanks
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07-16-2012, 08:50 AM
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Short answer: 21 mins, 13 points.
Link to all his Summer League stat lines as games occur.
http://www.nba.com/summer-league/201...rts/index.html
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07-16-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ballboy458
BRob looked pretty good tonite! Outshined Austin Rivers, I thought..He and Lillard were the two best guards on the floor..
The fact that the Hornets inserted him in there at the end, aside Rivers shows that they have a lot of confidence in him..
BRob played just as much at 2guard as PG..which was surprising..he looked comfortable at both positions..
Tomorrow same time versus Milwaukee Bucks..
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I watched the game and agree with all of your points. It has been a few years since I've watched BRob play and forgot how good he is on offense. He has a real shot of making the team. He along with Lillard were the best guards on the floor.
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07-16-2012, 09:25 PM
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Game tonight at 10:30
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07-16-2012, 11:23 PM
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Roberts did not have a good first half. 0 for 3 with a -10 plus minus
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07-17-2012, 12:19 AM
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Much better second half. Trey, floater, FTs.
Good god however, are the broadcasters being paid by Austin Rivers?? Hes done nothing all night and its like he has his own paid PR team on TV.
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07-17-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I would love to see BRob get a shot at the NBA. He is as dead-eye a shooter as the A10 has ever produced. BG could really develop players.
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Not to hijack a thread but I cannot let the last gratuitous sentence of the above quote just pass by. If BRob makes the NBA or Devin Searcy makes the NBA it would say that BG has an Eye for NBA quality talent but it might say just the opposite about his player development skills. These players have required a year or more to develop the NBA skills to get a serious look after BG's 4 years of coaching.
If BRob does make the NBA after four years in the European league it might say it took him four years to develop the necessary NBA skills that he should have learned in his four years in college. BG did not give BRob a dead eye shot what he needed to do as a coach was teach BRob how to maximize the value of his talent.
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07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by oldfan
Not to hijack a thread but I cannot let the last gratuitous sentence of the above quote just pass by. If BRob makes the NBA or Devin Searcy makes the NBA it would say that BG has an Eye for NBA quality talent but it might say just the opposite about his player development skills. These players have required a year or more to develop the NBA skills to get a serious look after BG's 4 years of coaching.
If BRob does make the NBA after four years in the European league it might say it took him four years to develop the necessary NBA skills that he should have learned in his four years in college. BG did not give BRob a dead eye shot what he needed to do as a coach was teach BRob how to maximize the value of his talent.
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I saw this comment earlier, but I didn't respond. Yes I agree that BG actually hendered many players offensively. If any of his players were to get drafted it would have been as defensive specialist
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07-17-2012, 10:07 AM
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An announcer for the summer league games said it is never too late if you are willing to put the work in on your game. He said he was 26 before making it to the nba, didn't catch his name. Dionte Christmas was playing well after playing elsewhere for 2-3 years
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07-17-2012, 10:49 AM
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I don't think the lack of player development argument holds up with Brian Roberts. At dayton he was one of the best scorers we ever had he came in as a relatively unknown recruit and by the time he left he was one of the best players in the A10 if not the country. The things that kept B Rob out of the nba were his size and relative lack of nba athleticism. If Brian Roberts was 4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier he would probably have been a lottery pick. BG made Brian Roberts the best possible player he could be while he was here at Dayton.
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07-17-2012, 11:39 AM
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How can anyone knock BG for taking a 2-3 star recruit and making him into one of the best players in the A10 by his senior season? Is this not the very definition of player development? I don't think most players are peaking as ball players when they graduate from college. As they near thirty, men tend to gain more upper body strength and fill out. BRob needed that for the brutal physicality of the pro's. I'm sure the seasoning in the European pro leagues doesn't hurt either. These are not BG coaching issues IMO. There are a slew of similar former all-A10 players who will have marginal shots at the NBA for 5 years after their graduation mostly due to body maturity and pro experience under their belts, not for lack of college development by their various coaches. The NBA summer league is full of those guys.
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07-17-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
How can anyone knock BG for taking a 2-3 star recruit and making him into one of the best players in the A10 by his senior season? Is this not the very definition of player development? I don't think most players are peaking as ball players when they graduate from college. As they near thirty, men tend to gain more upper body strength and fill out. BRob needed that for the brutal physicality of the pro's. I'm sure the seasoning in the European pro leagues doesn't hurt either. These are not BG coaching issues IMO. There are a slew of similar former all-A10 players who will have marginal shots at the NBA for 5 years after their graduation mostly due to body maturity and pro experience under their belts, not for lack of college development by their various coaches. The NBA summer league is full of those guys.
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Not to mention that he wasn't a PG when he got here and wouldn't have been if circumstances hadn't dictated otherwise. It isn't the coaches job to groom for the NBA but rather to win games which might mean players may not be developed for the position they would play in the NBA (see CW).
Did I sleep thru the last era where a UD coach had 4 former players with NBA chances at the same time? Sounds like unprecedented player development to me. Other than CW the other guys werent big time recruits.
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07-17-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Did I sleep thru the last era where a UD coach had 4 former players with NBA chances at the same time? Sounds like unprecedented player development to me. Other than CW the other guys werent big time recruits.
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That certainly is one point of view. However, the Staten family would say 5 because it's not over yet .
There are multiple perceptions on this deal.
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07-17-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan
Not to hijack a thread but . . .
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Consider it done - thread hijacked.
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07-17-2012, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Not to mention that he wasn't a PG when he got here and wouldn't have been if circumstances hadn't dictated otherwise. It isn't the coaches job to groom for the NBA but rather to win games which might mean players may not be developed for the position they would play in the NBA (see CW).
Did I sleep thru the last era where a UD coach had 4 former players with NBA chances at the same time? Sounds like unprecedented player development to me. Other than CW the other guys werent big time recruits.
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I think this point hits the nail on the head. How would we(as a UD fan base) be if we had 4+ NBA players but no post season to show? It brings up a similar story in the minor league baseball system. There is a manager(link below) who intentionally lost a game because he didn't want to harm his players by having someone play out of position, yet the league banned him for throwing the game. I think that we would be up in arms if our coach or any coach did that to further develop the ability of a player.
http://deadspin.com/5923228/minor-le...18+inning-game
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07-17-2012, 04:30 PM
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Whats interesting is if you listened to the fans and scouts who put in their due diligence to watch all the recruits from those classes, Roberts and Johnson were pegged to have the greatest impact in spite of their resumes'. I know I was saying much of this and I certainly wasnt alone. So Im not sure their achievements were much of a surprise to a lot of us. If you watched Roberts dropping 25 foot bombs against Hamilton HS in the state finals or saw Johnson putting up 25 and 15 a night in one of the 3 toughest prep hoop leagues in the state, Im not sure how you can be that surprised.
What that says about BG -- don't know.
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07-17-2012, 04:48 PM
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I wasn't watching Roberts live, or any other recruits from his class for that matter. But I was very suprised that he turned into the gem of that class based on the chatter/hype from that group of freshmen. Plummer, Binnie and Meacham were getting a lot of talk. Do the UDPride archives go back that far?
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07-17-2012, 08:16 PM
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Talk about gimmick defenses, I remember teams triple teaming BRob. I had never seen that and I have not seen it since. I think that was an adjustment that took a few weeks as we entered A10 play his senior year. That coupled with all the injuries...,
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07-17-2012, 09:41 PM
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Brob vs. Miami (63-62)
Couldn't help it---just once again watched the youtube video of Brian and the Flyers coming back from 20+ points down to beat the redhawks in Millett Brian's senior season---what a peformance and Brob has always been able to shoot the ball baby! Can anybody provide a link?
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07-17-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I wasn't watching Roberts live, or any other recruits from his class for that matter. But I was very suprised that he turned into the gem of that class based on the chatter/hype from that group of freshmen. Plummer, Binnie and Meacham were getting a lot of talk. Do the UDPride archives go back that far?
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Since you mentioned him, all I was thinking while watching BRob the past two nights was how good that backcourt could've been with him and Meacham. Oh well.
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07-17-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2
Talk about gimmick defenses, I remember teams triple teaming BRob. I had never seen that and I have not seen it since. I think that was an adjustment that took a few weeks as we entered A10 play his senior year. That coupled with all the injuries...,
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The Travis Ford defense. Take the ball out of Roberts' hands 35 feet from the basket and make everyone else beat you. Most coaches watched the tape of that home game loss to UMass and employed it with much success as well.
We had no one else to beat teams.
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07-18-2012, 01:07 PM
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Come on BRob! Only live an hour away from the Big Easy!
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07-18-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I wasn't watching Roberts live, or any other recruits from his class for that matter. But I was very surprised that he turned into the gem of that class based on the chatter/hype from that group of freshmen. Plummer, Binnie and Meacham were getting a lot of talk. Do the UDPride archives go back that far?
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I don't recall any talk about BR that indicated he would turn out to be anywhere near the player he ended up being. He is one of UD's all time greats, fourth on the scoring list behind arguably the top three players in UD history, Rosey, May, and Finkel. Nobody predicted he would be anywhere close to that.
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07-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
The Travis Ford defense. Take the ball out of Roberts' hands 35 feet from the basket and make everyone else beat you. Most coaches watched the tape of that home game loss to UMass and employed it with much success as well.
We had no one else to beat teams.
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IIRC, Perry and Binnie were left completely undefended in the game and missed a bunch of shots and passed on a bunch of others. Brob did a great job of passing out of the traps but there was no one to exploit the opportunity.
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07-18-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
I don't recall any talk about BR that indicated he would turn out to be anywhere near the player he ended up being. He is one of UD's all time greats, fourth on the scoring list behind arguably the top three players in UD history, Rosey, May, and Finkel. Nobody predicted he would be anywhere close to that.
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You are right arguably. All great players but I will always defend Jim Paxson Jr.
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07-18-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
You are right arguably. All great players but I will always defend Jim Paxson Jr.
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My all-time starting lineup by position is Davis, Smith, Chapman, May and Finkel, with Paxson as the sixth man. Paxson was great, but I don't know which one of those guys he's going to beat out.
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07-18-2012, 08:27 PM
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Depends on what you want from the lineup. While it's hard to argue that lineup one could argue it is light on ability to score drone the perimeter and may struggle moving the ball. Of that group only Smith had range on his jumper. Paxson would add those dimensions and help stretch the floor, something I think is important.
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07-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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Getting back on subject-BRob looks very good. Definitely good enough to play in the league.
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07-18-2012, 09:02 PM
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Great start tonight in first quarter. 7 pts on 3/5 shooting, 2 assists.
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07-18-2012, 09:27 PM
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BRob with 13 and 3 ass't in the first half
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07-18-2012, 09:30 PM
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Leads both teams in minutes played and points. 6 of 6 from the line.
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07-18-2012, 10:25 PM
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Finished with 16 Pts and 3 assists and 3 reb. Lead both teams in minutes and points. An efficient 4 of 8 and 2 of 4 from 3 pt land. Made all his FT.
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07-18-2012, 10:27 PM
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And played under control while getting his teammates involved - unlike Rivers in previous games.
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07-18-2012, 10:35 PM
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No question he is a better point guard than Rivers-only problem is Rivers was drafted in first round.
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07-18-2012, 10:46 PM
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I think Brian is showing the scouts he belongs in the NBA. Whether it is with the Hornets or someone else, he belongs.
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07-19-2012, 08:27 AM
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Could this be a precursor to Rob-sanity?
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07-19-2012, 08:37 AM
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Brian will earn every break he gets
Originally Posted by TA111
No question he is a better point guard than Rivers-only problem is Rivers was drafted in first round.
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That, and he is 6'4", went to Duke, father is a famous player and coach, and Austin has star power that will sell tickets and draw viewer's until he proves that the viewers investment in time and/or money to watch him is not returned.
Sometimes it's simply not a level playing field.
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07-19-2012, 09:07 AM
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My take on Rivers is that I thought his play while at Duke was selfish. Very uncharacteristic of Duke - Coach K players and it hurt their team, particularly in the NCAA's.
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07-19-2012, 09:23 AM
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I am as big a B-Rob supporter as there is, but let's not forget that Rivers is still the age of a college sophomore and his best basketball is still ahead of him. Once he learns the pro game I will argue that he probably has a better upside than BRob. There's a reason he was drafted in the first round after one year of college! I STILL hope BRob gets his chance, though. He deserves it.
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07-19-2012, 12:22 PM
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Brob
I got a chance to watch most of the game. Honestly, if Brob doesn't deserve a shot at playing in the NBA out of the players who played last night at the guard positions---I don't know what more he could do. I thought his passing was more than solid and if some guys knock down some shots he could have very well had 3-4 more assists.
Thought his point guard play was excellant, he clearly handled all the pressure that came his way--full well understanding this is the summer league---but these are the players he's competing with for "A" roster spot somewhere in the league.
I love the kid and he looked a smooth as ever from the stripe, etc.
Good luck Brob---hope you get a chance to live part of your dream here where we can watch you play on TV!
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07-19-2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles
Since you mentioned him, all I was thinking while watching BRob the past two nights was how good that backcourt could've been with him and Meacham. Oh well.
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BRob >>> Meacham
(BRob + Marcus Johnson) > (BRob + Meacham)
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07-19-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77
I am as big a B-Rob supporter as there is, but let's not forget that Rivers is still the age of a college sophomore and his best basketball is still ahead of him. Once he learns the pro game I will argue that he probably has a better upside than BRob. There's a reason he was drafted in the first round after one year of college! I STILL hope BRob gets his chance, though. He deserves it.
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Yes Rivers is younger and a first round pick, but he is a 2G trying to learn the point. BRob has become a point and has more point guard skills(right now). I know they want upside but sometimes taking today is best for tomorrow. That being said BRob still has an uphill fight to make this team. He would make a solid backup point guard in the NBA.
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07-19-2012, 05:52 PM
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07-19-2012, 06:38 PM
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I just hope Bryan's skill level translates well to the next level in training camp. We now have 3 "tweeners" in Searcy, Roberts, and of course Wright. That is, they have displayed eye-opening performances at the sub-NBA level, but can that translate to the NBA? CJ has opened some eyes, but his consistency and numbers are a click short of the nice hustle and energy that he has shown, and been recognized for. Think he's got the "goods", just needs some more opportunity.
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07-19-2012, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
BRob >>> Meacham
(BRob + Marcus Johnson) > (BRob + Meacham)
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Huh? It's not about Marcus vs. Meacham. Marcus was 2 yrs younger than BRob and both were shooting guards. It's a moot point anyway, Trent obviously didn't want to be at UD. It's a shame, that backcourt duo could've been dynamic. I know there is no love for Meacham, but watching him play at Illinois, he was a quality player. Enough time has now passed that I'm not so bitter anymore to admit that.
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07-19-2012, 10:21 PM
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based on the comments from Summer League, it seems he has solidified his skills as a PG over the past 4 years. I have not seen him play recently, but it sounds like he is running the point well.
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07-20-2012, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2
based on the comments from Summer League, it seems he has solidified his skills as a PG over the past 4 years. I have not seen him play recently, but it sounds like he is running the point well.
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One factor might be that you are not going to get double and triple teamed in the NBA summer league. It's a different game.
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07-20-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles
Huh? It's not about Marcus vs. Meacham. Marcus was 2 yrs younger than BRob and both were shooting guards. It's a moot point anyway, Trent obviously didn't want to be at UD. It's a shame, that backcourt duo could've been dynamic. I know there is no love for Meacham, but watching him play at Illinois, he was a quality player. Enough time has now passed that I'm not so bitter anymore to admit that.
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I have nothing against Meacham. I just don't but into the idea that UD would have been significantly better if he did not transfer.
Brian Roberts led UD in assists his sophmore, junior, and senior seasons. He was and is a better PG, SG, and basketball player than Meacham.
During BRobs Junior and Senior Seasons, MJ was ~second on UD in minutes played. He was one of the team leaders in rebounds and defense, and had a good FG% (Better than Meacham). If TM would have stayed, MJ would have played fewer minutes.
TM was not a true PG at Illinois. He played alot of minutes, but was never better than third on the team in assists. He could not penetrate and create shots for others.
At UD, TM would have been a better third guard option than Sandoval, but he would have been the third best guard at UD his Junior and Senior seasons.
After a couple less than spectacular years in Europe, TM is retired from basketball. I wish him well.
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07-20-2012, 11:23 PM
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Ouch. Roberts with 5 turnovers in first half?!
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07-21-2012, 01:10 AM
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Brian Roberts
Tonight's stat line:
Min 33:10, 4-10 FG (1-1 3Pt), 2-2 FT, 3 Reb, 1 Ast, 5 PF, 2 Stl, 5 TO, 11 Points
The Hornets team looked pretty inept without their first-round draft pick, Anthony Davis. Davis - cut from the USA Olympic team but brought back when Blake Griffin went down with a torn meniscus - would have given the Hornets summer league squad a much-neede presence under the basket. Brian Roberts remains heads and shoulders above any other point guard option the Hornets have with this team.
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07-21-2012, 09:20 AM
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He could be light years better than Austin Rivers and he won't make the roster at Rivers expense. The Hornets aren't eating the guaranteed first round money. Sometimes it isn't about who is the best option on the floor.
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07-21-2012, 09:45 AM
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he can get an invite to camp from any team.. It doesn't have to be the hornets. So I don't believe he has to "beat out" Rivers for a spot in order to get a shot at the league.
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07-21-2012, 12:01 PM
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Not all bad last night
Some bright spots for Roberts last night however. Still has not missed a freethrow (13/13).
Raised his 3pt ave to .500 (4/8).
Shooting % now 49/50/100.
He is doing a great job of letting the game come to him and not forcing too much. A sure sign of maturity.
Brian was also guarded by 6' 5" Dominique Jones, a Mavs second year draft choice from South Florida who is athletic, and a tough cookie on defense. He is averaging 33 minutes and 20 points/game.
Last nights game will be more the intensity that BRob will face in NBA camp.
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07-21-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFLIES
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he can get an invite to camp from any team.. It doesn't have to be the hornets. So I don't believe he has to "beat out" Rivers for a spot in order to get a shot at the league.
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I don't know, I guess that your above post is how this works. I don't know if guys are under a short-term contract during the NBA summer league and are thus contractually bound to the team that they are playing for in the summer league. I doubt that a summer league player is contractually bound to anybody. I think it is anything goes, the highest bidder, or the team that presents a player with his best opportunity, wins.
I don't know how much money, if any money at all, that the summer league players get paid. I am guessing that teams will cover a player's airfare, meals, and lodging during the summer league.
Did CW play in the NBA summer league last year? Or was there no summer league last year due to the labor/management negotiations with the collective bargaining agreement?
Last edited by ud2; 07-21-2012 at 12:12 PM..
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07-21-2012, 12:39 PM
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Thought BRob had a mediocre game last night. Too many turnovers - 5. The physicality pushed him around a bit. They also posted him up a couple of times. Missed a couple floaters in the lane. Still has that sweet jumper though.
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07-21-2012, 12:55 PM
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I thought that BRob and the man guarding him were being a little extra physical with each other, then I realized that the man guarding BRob was none other than our beloved Tu Holloway. I especially enjoyed seeing him drive to the basket, flail like he got fouled only to have his shot sent into the second row by a hornets player and the referees not call anything. Roberts didn't have the best game but he still looked like one of the best players on the floor. He certainly looked much better than Holloway.
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07-21-2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Did CW play in the NBA summer league last year? Or was there no summer league last year due to the labor/management negotiations with the collective bargaining agreement?
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Correct. No summer league last year because of the lockout.
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07-21-2012, 08:29 PM
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Brian played well today
Holloway only got 13 minutes, so they weren't on each other for that long. Dominique Jones was on Roberts more but I agree with your point that Roberts looked better than Holloway.
Roberts had a good game against GSW today. Had 18 points on 7/13 shooting, 2/3 from 3pt, 2/3 from the line. 5 assists and 2 steals against 2 to's.
He is now 6/11 from 3pt, and 15/16 from the ft line. Overall shooting above 50%.
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07-21-2012, 08:58 PM
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New Orleans would be wise to keep , they really need quality point guards.
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07-21-2012, 09:23 PM
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The boy has always been able to shoot the pill with mad range. That has never ever been questioned.
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07-21-2012, 09:23 PM
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Brob
Don't know what else he could show them---at this point! Must have been a reason they brought him in....hopefully they'll sign him.
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07-21-2012, 10:01 PM
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Some good young shooters take serious gas when presented with the same opportunity. Think BR's European experience has given him the edge.
Brian still has to go to an NBA camp and perform like he has in summer league before there is any serious seasonal contract consideration.
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07-21-2012, 10:17 PM
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I'm so proud of the guy---4 weeks ago I had NO idea and would have never expected to be talking about Brob playing in the NBA this season, but he sure seems to have played well enough to have a shot. I hope it works out for him Go Flyers!!
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07-22-2012, 01:36 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
Brian Roberts led UD in assists his sophmore, junior, and senior seasons.
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Forgive me, but I need to correct an inaccuracy.
Roberts did not lead the team in assists his sophomore year. Warren Williams had 135 versus Roberts 107.
Roberts did lead in his junior year, but only by 4 over London Warren. (Not much love for London his freshman year.)
Roberts also led in assists his senior year by a large margin, but had a good supporting cast (Marcus Johnson, Charles Little and Chris Wright) until injuries occurred bringing in the 3-man-on-Roberts-and-no-else-wants-to-shoot end of year slump for the Flyers.
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07-22-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
Roberts also led in assists his senior year by a large margin, but had a good supporting cast (Marcus Johnson, Charles Little and Chris Wright) until injuries occurred bringing in the 3-man-on-Roberts-and-no-else-wants-to-shoot end of year slump for the Flyers.
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I thought that was our best team in the BG era (before the injuries).
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07-22-2012, 08:22 PM
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http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/...league-finale/
Interesting read, guy seems to think that BRob will be in some NBA camp.
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07-22-2012, 09:53 PM
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It's nice to know that someone else sees what we see.
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07-23-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vclark34
I thought that BRob and the man guarding him were being a little extra physical with each other, then I realized that the man guarding BRob was none other than our beloved Tu Holloway. I especially enjoyed seeing him drive to the basket, flail like he got fouled only to have his shot sent into the second row by a hornets player and the referees not call anything. Roberts didn't have the best game but he still looked like one of the best players on the floor. He certainly looked much better than Holloway.
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Holloway was a creation of A10 refs.
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07-23-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
I have nothing against Meacham. I just don't but into the idea that UD would have been significantly better if he did not transfer.
Brian Roberts led UD in assists his sophmore, junior, and senior seasons. He was and is a better PG, SG, and basketball player than Meacham.
During BRobs Junior and Senior Seasons, MJ was ~second on UD in minutes played. He was one of the team leaders in rebounds and defense, and had a good FG% (Better than Meacham). If TM would have stayed, MJ would have played fewer minutes.
TM was not a true PG at Illinois. He played alot of minutes, but was never better than third on the team in assists. He could not penetrate and create shots for others.
At UD, TM would have been a better third guard option than Sandoval, but he would have been the third best guard at UD his Junior and Senior seasons.
After a couple less than spectacular years in Europe, TM is retired from basketball. I wish him well.
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There's a lot of crazy talk in there if you ask me. TM scored 6.4 PPG, shot 46% from 3 and 90% from the FT line, had an A/TO ratio of 1.5 as a freshman, and he played 18 MPG. He would not have been the 3rd best guard his JR and SR seasons.
TM's junior season:
MJ: 6.6 PPG, 31% from 3, 59% FT, 3.7 RPG, 0.9 A/TO
Sandoval: 5.9 PPG, 29% from 3, 68% FT, 2.8 RPG, 1.2 A/TO
LW: 2.4 PPG, N/A from 3, 55% FT, 1.3 A/TO
Senior season: I don't have time to go through all the numbers, but MJ was clearly better by this point and would not have been on the bench, he would have played more small forward, BR would have been the shooting guard where he belonged, Sandoval would have seen more of the bench, Mickey Perry would have never come to UD but if he did he would have played a lot less (if at all), Stephen Thomas would have never played, Jimmy Binnie would have been called on less to be a primary player and more as a support player at the SF spot, and LW (A/TO = 0.84 in this year) would have been TM's backup until he was ready.
The rotation would have likely been:
TM, LW as backup
BR, AS as backup
MJ, JB as backup
That's a much better team.
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07-23-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
There's a lot of crazy talk in there if you ask me. TM scored 6.4 PPG, shot 46% from 3 and 90% from the FT line, had an A/TO ratio of 1.5 as a freshman, and he played 18 MPG. He would not have been the 3rd best guard his JR and SR seasons.
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In BRob's senior season (What would have been TM's senior season at UD) and MJ's sophmore season:
Brian Roberts: 18.4 PPG, 47.6 FG%, 2.8 RPG, 3.4APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG
Marcus Johnson 10.1 PPG 47.8 FG%, 5.1 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.4 BPG
Trent Meachum 10.1 PPG, 41.1 FG%, 2.4 RPG, 2.3 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.1 BPG
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/dayton?season=2007-2008
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/illin...ason=2007-2008
In 2007-2008, UD had a very good back court.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670X57RYWJg
I look back and appreciate Brian Roberts and Marcus Johnson.
Last edited by nwflyer; 07-23-2012 at 01:24 PM..
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07-23-2012, 01:23 PM
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I agree with some of this, not all of it. Skill wise TM was a better PG. That was his natural position. BR was not a natural PG and had to convert. he did a great job, but he would have been a bigger scorer if someone else brought down the court and the offense flow (screens picks, dribble penetration set him up) His assist numbers were high due to the sheer number of minutes he played. BR led the team in minutes played. I am not sure anyone since played more minutes. TM did not receive that many minutes at Illinois.
JB and AS received more playing time due to injuries on the front line during BR's senior year. Both of those players were playing the 3 spot. AS was not a 3 by any stretch of imagination. The front line injuries were nasty during that year. There was not depth in the 3 and 4 positions, so players lower in talent or out of position were forced to play those roles.
Originally Posted by Gazoo
There's a lot of crazy talk in there if you ask me. TM scored 6.4 PPG, shot 46% from 3 and 90% from the FT line, had an A/TO ratio of 1.5 as a freshman, and he played 18 MPG. He would not have been the 3rd best guard his JR and SR seasons.
TM's junior season:
MJ: 6.6 PPG, 31% from 3, 59% FT, 3.7 RPG, 0.9 A/TO
Sandoval: 5.9 PPG, 29% from 3, 68% FT, 2.8 RPG, 1.2 A/TO
LW: 2.4 PPG, N/A from 3, 55% FT, 1.3 A/TO
Senior season: I don't have time to go through all the numbers, but MJ was clearly better by this point and would not have been on the bench, he would have played more small forward, BR would have been the shooting guard where he belonged, Sandoval would have seen more of the bench, Mickey Perry would have never come to UD but if he did he would have played a lot less (if at all), Stephen Thomas would have never played, Jimmy Binnie would have been called on less to be a primary player and more as a support player at the SF spot, and LW (A/TO = 0.84 in this year) would have been TM's backup until he was ready.
The rotation would have likely been:
TM, LW as backup
BR, AS as backup
MJ, JB as backup
That's a much better team.
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07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
In BRob's senior season (What would have been TM's senior season at UD) and MJ's sophmore season:
Brian Roberts: 18.4 PPG, 47.6 FG%, 2.8 RPG, 3.4APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG
Marcus Johnson 10.1 PPG 47.8 FG%, 5.1 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.4 BPG
Trent Meachum 10.1 PPG, 41.1 FG%, 2.4 RPG, 2.3 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.1 BPG
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/dayton?season=2007-2008
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/illin...ason=2007-2008
In 2007-2008, UD had a very good back court.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670X57RYWJg
I look back and appreciate Brian Roberts and Marcus Johnson.
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You're going to compare TM's stats in his first year playing in the Big 10 as a junior walk-on playing a hybrid PG / SG
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MJ playing SG / SF in the A10
-and conclude-
TM would have been the 3rd best guard on the team?
I reach the opposite conclusion. You forgot to mention TM was the 2nd leading scorer on that Illinois team and hit 38% of the team's 3 pointers on the season, so I think it's safe to say they were a little bit limited offensively since he was not a pure scorer. Playing in position as PG at UD where he would have seen a lot of open 3's while BR drew the defensive attention TM would have lit it up, and created opportunities for MJ as well.
But based on your numbers, since BR averaged 18 PPG should I conclude that BR was the best player on either team, as well as the whole of the Big 10 that year? (OK I didn't check every team, but he was probably in the top 3 for scoring.)
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07-23-2012, 05:12 PM
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And in Roberts senior season, come conference time teams triple teamed him 35 feet from the basket to force the ball elsewhere. Roberts didn't have the point guard skills to split the traps, reverse the ball quickly enough, and didn't have the supporting cast to knock down shots to force the defense to play straight up.
Pure speculation, but none of that happens if TM is at point.
MJ would have played on the wing in a three guard set (or you could call him the small forward). Wright would have played the 4 before he was injured, with Little off the bench.
If TM were in a Dayton uniform for his senior season, Dayton would have been in the NCAAs. It's ludicrous to say he would have been the third best guard on the team when he clearly would have been the best point guard.
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07-23-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
You're going to compare TM's stats in his first year playing in the Big 10 as a junior walk-on playing a hybrid PG / SG
-to-
MJ playing SG / SF in the A10
-and conclude-
TM would have been the 3rd best guard on the team?
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2007-2008 was TM's third year(second active year) at Illinois. TM's numbers did not get any better his final season. TM was never the primary PG option at Illinois.
MJ could also guard the PG position on defense (He is guarding Fields as he brings the ball up the court in the video I posted). Fields is trying to guard MJ when he gets hurt - MJ blows by him. MJ was a serious matchup problem at the 2G.
Yes - I think MJ and BRob were and are better guards than TM.
Before CW went down to injury, I thought the 2007-2008 were playing the best Flyer basketball in a long time and better than any UD team since. That team had three players with close to NBA level talent (BRob, CW, and MJ).
If I have to ask a "what if" question, I would ask what would have happened if CW stayed healthy and continued to develop in 2007-2008 - not what would have happened if TM was still around. That team was playing like an NCAA team before CW was hurt. I don't believe adding another guard would have made up for the front court deficiencies after CW was hurt.
Last edited by nwflyer; 07-23-2012 at 05:54 PM..
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07-24-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
Fields is trying to guard MJ when he gets hurt - MJ blows by him. MJ was a serious matchup problem at the 2G.
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Actually, Fields came down ackwardly after shooting the ball.
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07-24-2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross
Actually, Fields came down ackwardly after shooting the ball.
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Sorry about getting some details wrong - the above and BRobs' sophmore assist numbers.
My high level message doesn't change. To me, it seems like some fans find it difficult to fully appreciate former UD players and teams.
From my perspective, of course BRob is better than TM, of course BRob was better than any Illinois player in 2007-2008, of course BRob was better than all but a few Big 10 players in 2007-2008. BRob was the best player on a UD team that went into Freedom Hall and knocked off an elite eight Louisville team. BRob has overcome hurdles that go along with attending UD and is on the verge of making an NBA roster. There are probably only ~25 former Big 10 players currently on NBA rosters (But don't quote me).
From my perspective, of course MJ is better than TM. MJ is an exceptional athlete, an exceptional defender at G, and a great finisher. He could be an undersized SF, but that was not his best position.
Of course CW was one of UD's greatest players. He could do things on a basketball court that no other UD player has done or is likely to do in the forseeable future.
To me, TM seemed like a solid all around complimentary player, but not in the same a category as BRob, MJ, or CW. Outside of Ft%, I struggle to identify any aspect of his game that was particularly above average. I don't envision opposing coaches losing much sleep over matching up with TM. I would be shocked if NBA and TM ever appeared in the same sentence.
Last edited by nwflyer; 07-24-2012 at 07:46 PM..
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07-24-2012, 08:27 PM
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UD would have been a much better team with TM at the point. Of course BR was a better all around player than TM, but having TM would have allowed BR to play the 2, his natural position. MJ could have easily played the 3, and would have been an upgrade from Binnie. I would take TM, BR, and MJ over BR, MJ, and JB every time. And with TM at the point, A-10 teams couldn't have played the defenses they did, double and even triple-teaming BR every time down the court. BR would have been an even better player had he had a good point guard who could shoot and distribute the ball (which TM could do), thus allowing him to play the 2.
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07-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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This starting 5 that was on a path to the NCAA tournment and potential deep run in the tournament: Brian Roberts, Marcus Johnson, Jimmy Binnie, Kurt Huelsman, Chris Wright
This starting 5 went 9-7 in the A10: Brian Roberts, Marcus Johnson, Jimmy Binnie, Kurt Huelsman, Andres Sandoval
I can buy into the idea that TM might have enabled the additional conference win to make the NCAA tournament, but only on the backs of a dominant nonconference season with CW. I don't see a frontcourt of an NCAA tournament quality team without CW. Better, but I would not say much better.
Also, admittedly, it does get under my skin when TM comes up when discussions the accomplishments of former UD players.
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07-24-2012, 09:56 PM
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When do training camps start? September?
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07-24-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
This starting 5 went 9-7 in the A10: Brian Roberts, Marcus Johnson, Jimmy Binnie, Kurt Huelsman, Andres Sandoval
I can buy into the idea that TM might have enabled the additional conference win to make the NCAA tournament, but only on the backs of a dominant nonconference season with CW. I don't see a frontcourt of an NCAA tournament quality team without CW. Better, but I would not say much better.
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Actually they went only 8-8 in the A-10. Of course the team wasn't the same without CW, but I believe TM would have been worth the two additional A-10 wins we needed to make the NCAA. With CW we could have made a deep run in the NCAA.
Last edited by longtimefan; 07-24-2012 at 11:19 PM..
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07-24-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nwflyer
From my perspective, of course MJ is better than TM.
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I'm not completely sure anyone here vehemently disagrees with you that MJ is better than TM. But that's not what you said. You said MJ was better than TM in what would have been TM's junior and senior seasons.
That's completely different, it's like saying "of course Monte Scott is better than BR." That's completely true! Well, in the 1 season they played together that is. That's not analysis, that's how politicians use numbers.
In what would have been TM's junior season the argument is just not validated by the numbers in any way. In TM's junior season:
MJ: 6.6 PPG, 31% from 3, 59% FT, 3.7 RPG, 0.9 A/TO
You can't possibly believe that TM would have scored less than 6.6 PPG (scored 6.4 as a freshman), shoot less than 31% from 3 (shot 46% as a freshman), shoot worse than 59% on FT's (shot 89% as a freshman), and have an A/TO ratio of worse than 0.9 (1.5 as a freshman). That's simply crazy talk, there is absolutely nothing that backs this up except that you don't like TM.
Now, if you want to continue backing up from your original statement and say that in TM's senior season he would have been the 3rd best guard on the team behind BR and MJ, I won't agree with you but at the same time I can't say I disagree that strongly either.
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07-25-2012, 07:37 AM
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The starting lineup in the nonconference season would have been TM, BR, MJ, CW, KH. It would t be easy to have had more wins, but that lineup is better. And deeper with Binnie, Sandoval, Little off the bench.
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07-26-2012, 08:59 AM
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Some potential good news for BRob-NEw Orleans just traded their back up PG-Dyson.
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07-26-2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111
Some potential good news for BRob-NEw Orleans just traded their back up PG-Dyson.
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I hope so man, my 2nd favorite Flyer in the past 20 years behind T-Stan
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07-26-2012, 09:54 AM
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The Dyson move almost solidifies BRob's dream of playing in the NBA.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/orleans...0676--nba.html
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07-26-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
UD would have been a much better team with TM at the point. Of course BR was a better all around player than TM, but having TM would have allowed BR to play the 2, his natural position. MJ could have easily played the 3, and would have been an upgrade from Binnie. I would take TM, BR, and MJ over BR, MJ, and JB every time. And with TM at the point, A-10 teams couldn't have played the defenses they did, double and even triple-teaming BR every time down the court. BR would have been an even better player had he had a good point guard who could shoot and distribute the ball (which TM could do), thus allowing him to play the 2.
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Agreed, that would've been a solid team. Not that he didn't shoot well, but can you imagine if he didn't have to do that with 2-3 guys draped on him every single time down the court? Would've been deadly.
Last edited by Canonball; 07-26-2012 at 10:30 AM..
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07-26-2012, 10:30 AM
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Besides being able to play both the point and shooting guard, apparently BRob has enough left-over talent to play 2nd base for the Orioles.
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07-26-2012, 12:42 PM
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I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. What it more than likely solidifies is a spot in veterans camp. That's a start. The Hornets could bring in a guard that nobody knows about right now and he could take that perceived 5th guard spot away from Brian Roberts. Perform well in veterans camp, and that will likely solidify BRob's dream- and all of ours- of him playing in the NBA.
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07-26-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball
Agreed, that would've been a solid team. Not that he didn't shoot well, but can you imagine if he didn't have to do that with 2-3 guys draped on him every single time down the court? Would've been deadly.
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When an offense has a significant threat under the basket, defenses pack it in and protect the basket. When an offense lacks any kind of significant threat under the basket, defenses are free to extend out and harass the guards. On the other hand, maybe AM should stop spending time recruiting above avearge talent that is taller than 6'4" and focus his efforts landing a bunch of real good guards.
BRob is a tremendous offensive talent. I just think a team is putting a awful lot of pressure on the back court if the starting frontcourt lacks anyone who is above average at rebounding, defending, or scoring.
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