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  #701  
Old 09-16-2015, 03:25 PM
FlyerGuyer FlyerGuyer is offline
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Not only is it not cowardly, it's strategic. Tony Bennett wants to play an early season game, even if it's the season opener, against an in-state/regional opponent. They've also played at Old Dominion, and I believe are going to William & Mary next year.

Yet, amazingly, doing this isn't hurting their program like so many programs seem to think that it will. It's an early road game, that's winnable, but even if they lose it's still great preparation for the ACC, and on a national level it's a loss that people pretty much forget about. No one really remembered or cared that both VCU and Green Bay beat them a few years ago. All anyone remembers is that they won the ACC and earned a #1 seed.

Only two buy games for the Hoos. They don't subscribe to the "everything to gain and nothing to lose" type of thinking. If more teams did this, then perhaps basketball would be more interesting to more people in November and December instead of being so far on the backburner of most sports fans up until at least January.

Agree with essentially everything you wrote.

Virginia has actually always been one of my favorite teams dating back to the days of Terry Holland when I was a kid.
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  #702  
Old 09-21-2015, 07:50 PM
ocdvic ocdvic is offline
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Ken Pomeroy on Vanderbilt

@kenpomeroy tweeted that if you don't have Vanderbilt in your preseason Top 25 you're probably a wierdo.
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  #703  
Old 10-19-2015, 02:28 PM
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I haven't seen it posted, but with only 1 exhibition on the schedule, I assume UD is going with 1 super secret, not so secret scrimmage vs another D1 team, similar to what they did last year (meeting Illinois in Indy and having a closed door scrimmage, which UD allegedly held a sizable lead late and let it slip away at the end). Anyone have any word on what, if anything they are doing this season that can share?
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  #704  
Old 10-19-2015, 03:00 PM
CE80 CE80 is offline
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I haven't seen it posted, but with only 1 exhibition on the schedule, I assume UD is going with 1 super secret, not so secret scrimmage vs another D1 team, similar to what they did last year (meeting Illinois in Indy and having a closed door scrimmage, which UD allegedly held a sizable lead late and let it slip away at the end). Anyone have any word on what, if anything they are doing this season that can share?
I saw a Twitter post of the Purdue Rivals site that indicated the Flyers were go to scrimmage them.
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  #705  
Old 10-21-2015, 09:32 AM
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Vandy has been picked by the SEC Media to finish 2nd in the Conference.

Arkansas 11th
Alabama 13th

Remember there are 14 Teams
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  #706  
Old 10-21-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Vandy has been picked by the SEC Media to finish 2nd in the Conference.

Arkansas 11th
Alabama 13th

Remember there are 14 Teams
And Arkansas would have been 2 to 4th, with Portis and the other dudes still in place. think 2 had academic or behavioral issues, can't recall.
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  #707  
Old 10-21-2015, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Vandy has been picked by the SEC Media to finish 2nd in the Conference.

Arkansas 11th
Alabama 13th

Remember there are 14 Teams
And last year Davidson was picked to finish next to last in the A10.

Unless the SEC is measurably better than the last few years, I believe coaching will lift both of these teams closer to middle of the pack.
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  #708  
Old 10-21-2015, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I saw a Twitter post of the Purdue Rivals site that indicated the Flyers were go to scrimmage them.
This is correct.
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  #709  
Old 10-21-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
This is correct.
What? That I saw a Twitter post saying UD was going to scrimmage against Purdue?
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  #710  
Old 10-21-2015, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
What? That I saw a Twitter post saying UD was going to scrimmage against Purdue?
Touche'

I saw a Twitter post of the Purdue Rivals site that indicated the Flyers were go to scrimmage them.
The "indication" of the tweet is correct.
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  #711  
Old 10-21-2015, 01:55 PM
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Good scrimmage game.
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  #712  
Old 10-21-2015, 02:00 PM
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Terrific scrimmage vs Purdue as they are one of the largest teams in the country. They have 2 legit 7 footers and a big man who was a McDonald's All American this past year. Will be interested to see how it goes
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  #713  
Old 10-21-2015, 03:22 PM
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Last week Purdue coach Matt Painter said the "game" against Dayton will be played in Indianapolis.

Originally Posted by FlyerNation23 View Post
Terrific scrimmage vs Purdue as they are one of the largest teams in the country. They have 2 legit 7 footers and a big man who was a McDonald's All American this past year. Will be interested to see how it goes
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  #714  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:20 PM
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http://www.midmajormadness.com/atlan...rs-atlantic-10

The one concern that I have for this team is its schedule. Their tournament hopes could come down to the Nov. 26 game against Iowa in the Advocare Invitational. A win puts the Flyers against a top 25 Notre Dame team and then a chance at either Wichita State or Xavier. A loss, however, means that Dayton plays Monmouth and then a game against Alabama or USC.


The Flyers also travel down to Nashville to take on Vanderbilt who is primed for a big year and could challenge for an SEC title. Other than that, the nonconference schedule is pretty weak. The Flyers host an Avery Johnson-led Alabama squad that is in the process of rebuilding during ESPN's 24-hour marathon and host a down Arkansas squad in late December. Conference play will give the Flyers a chance at some more quality wins but they need to perform well in the nonconference season.
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  #715  
Old 10-24-2015, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
http://www.midmajormadness.com/atlan...rs-atlantic-10

The one concern that I have for this team is its schedule. Their tournament hopes could come down to the Nov. 26 game against Iowa in the Advocare Invitational. A win puts the Flyers against a top 25 Notre Dame team and then a chance at either Wichita State or Xavier. A loss, however, means that Dayton plays Monmouth and then a game against Alabama or USC.


The Flyers also travel down to Nashville to take on Vanderbilt who is primed for a big year and could challenge for an SEC title. Other than that, the nonconference schedule is pretty weak. The Flyers host an Avery Johnson-led Alabama squad that is in the process of rebuilding during ESPN's 24-hour marathon and host a down Arkansas squad in late December. Conference play will give the Flyers a chance at some more quality wins but they need to perform well in the nonconference season.
Thx for the link _ _ _ Flyer.

Two things:

1. Referring to this program as a mid-major is laughable.

2. I am fully convinced Steve should start at the 5. If for no other reason then to block and alter shots, rebound and just plain be a paint presence. Other then putbacks we wouldnt need much offensively from him. I would prefer that to going small and putting DD in the lineup. I would prefer Steve over any of the freshman "bigs" If he can do this, id like 25 minutes from him. Give 15 to Sam. X and BW can fill in 5-10 for KP

This writer is spot on, so much rides on beating Iowa. If we can go 2-1 in Orlando and the 2 wins come from Iowa/ND/Wich. St/_avier and the loss comes from ND or Wich. St, id be ecstatic. id sign up for that right now. With that in mind a 3 loss nonconference is acceptable and 2 loss ideal, until we get Pierre back

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  #716  
Old 10-25-2015, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Thx for the link _ _ _ Flyer.

Two things:

1. Referring to this program as a mid-major is laughable.

2. I am fully convinced Steve should start at the 5. If for no other reason then to block and alter shots, rebound and just plain be a paint presence. Other then putbacks we wouldnt need much offensively from him. I would prefer that to going small and putting DD in the lineup. I would prefer Steve over any of the freshman "bigs" If he can do this, id like 25 minutes from him. Give 15 to Sam. X and BW can fill in 5-10 for KP

This writer is spot on, so much rides on beating Iowa. If we can go 2-1 in Orlando and the 2 wins come from Iowa/ND/Wich. St/_avier and the loss comes from ND or Wich. St, id be ecstatic. id sign up for that right now. With that in mind a 3 loss nonconference is acceptable and 2 loss ideal, until we get Pierre back
I think I can shed some light on this whole mid-major thing as I am the author of this article and will be covering the A10 for this website for the year.

You are right that Dayton itself may not fall in the mid-major description but the A10 leans more towards a mid-major. Doesn't mean it isn't a good conference but when half the arenas in the conference are comparable to division 2/3 facilities it's not a good look. Also attendance to me is a major factor. The league averaged 5,500 people per game last year and take out Dayton who averaged 12,700 that number goes down dramatically.

But at the end of the day its a website that will constantly cover the A10 and is free content that anyone can enjoy.

Here's to a great season, first thing I did after graduating in May was purchasing season tickets. Go Flyers!
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  #717  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:22 PM
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If u think much of the conference arenas look like d2 or d3 gyms, me thinks u haven't actually seen many d2 or d3 gyms
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  #718  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by redscareRAM View Post
I think I can shed some light on this whole mid-major thing as I am the author of this article and will be covering the A10 for this website for the year.

You are right that Dayton itself may not fall in the mid-major description but the A10 leans more towards a mid-major. Doesn't mean it isn't a good conference but when half the arenas in the conference are comparable to division 2/3 facilities it's not a good look. Also attendance to me is a major factor. The league averaged 5,500 people per game last year and take out Dayton who averaged 12,700 that number goes down dramatically.

But at the end of the day its a website that will constantly cover the A10 and is free content that anyone can enjoy.

Here's to a great season, first thing I did after graduating in May was purchasing season tickets. Go Flyers!

Ryan,

From your web site-

"As a reminder we do not include the following conferences in MM15: Power 5, Big East, Mountain West, American Athletic Conference"


This mid-major stuff is horse-pucky. IMHOP- It is a pejorative What was the criteria for the above grouping? Several of those conferences noted above rank below the A-10. Northwestern has never been to the NCAA tournament. That should put them even below "mid-major" status. Somehow I don't think they are part of this "mid-major" grouping. I could live with a "non power-5" designation perhaps, but not "mid-major". I have never seen anyone come up with a valid definition of "mid-major".
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  #719  
Old 10-25-2015, 09:04 PM
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You are going by the size of the gym and amount of attendance. Give me a break. So how good the teams are has little to do with it?

Of course you go by the arena and attendance for the league, but not for the individual, Dayton, which outdraws all but about two dozen teams year in and year out.

Why not stick to the quality of the team, and stop rating arenas, attendance, cheerleaders, bands and refreshment stands.

BTW, ever been to Duke? Sort of D2 in your book.
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  #720  
Old 10-25-2015, 09:19 PM
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Guys, what the he*l? You're lashing out at the wrong person here! The term mid-major is of course not really a compliment, but why would you lash out at a UD GRAD who is writing UD-complimentary stuff for a free website? Because you don't like the term mid-major? Really?

I don't really like it either, but I appreciate RedscareRAM's work, and willingness to discuss it here. It's more than a little petty to go after the guy for the name of the website.

Off the top of my head, Fordham, LaSalle, Bona, and St. Joe play in pretty small arenas. I drove by URI one time headed to Cape Cod, and thought the campus was a high school. Yeah, the term "mid-major" is nebulous and kind of dated, but who really cares? The A-10 doesn't have top-level football. The other conferences either have that, or have national championships in hoops in the modern era (sorry, LaSalle). Is anyone suggesting the A-10 and the MAC are the same in hoops? Absolutely not. Is Gonzaga a mid-major program? Absolutely not. Is the A-10 as a whole a better conference than the WCC? I'll fight anyone who says otherwise, but Gonzaga is a step above anyone in our conference and that's not debatable either.

All these distinctions are kind of silly, anyway. To b*tch at a writer from the site who is a UD grad and complimentary towards UD is even sillier.


I'm hopeful we get some nuggets of info about the Purdue scrimmage.
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  #721  
Old 10-26-2015, 10:26 AM
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Hey guys, I appreciate your opinions it's what makes sports fun and the passion for the Flyers is great. The only thing I'll counter with is that sure attendance and facilities are not the whole defining factor in determining a mid-major but let's say that NCAA success is. The A10 really doesn't compete on that level yet.

And once again I love the Flyers and I'm not calling them a mid-major. But to tell me that Fordham, La Salle, Bonaventure, Duquesne, St. Joes, George Mason, and even RI and UMass aren't mid-major is a far stretch in my opinion. We cover the league as a whole and it would be strange to only cover 65-70% of the league.

I understand it's not a term of endearment by any terms but it's just a classification that means absolutely nothing in the long run.

I'm excited for the season to start and for another great run.
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  #722  
Old 10-26-2015, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by redscareRAM View Post
....
I understand it's not a term of endearment by any terms but it's just a classification that means absolutely nothing in the long run.
......
So why use it then?
How about using "Non-power 5" and move on....
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  #723  
Old 10-26-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
So why use it then?
How about using "Non-power 5" and move on....
Is that really better than mid-major? It's the same concept that you are putting yourself in a lower tier than other teams.
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  #724  
Old 10-26-2015, 11:10 AM
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^^^

yes, no one can argue, no power 5 conference school. There are teams in power 5 conferences that wish their basketball team had the support that several of your A-10 "mid Major" programs had. I've seen Ole Miss games on TV, Andy Kennedy would slap a lot full of cabbies to get the fan support that the Bonnies see for a mid-week game vs Duquesne or UMass.

Lumping everyone in one conference or another as mid-major, power 5, non power 5 is lazy journalism. The expenditures school rack up for football is largely different for power 5 schools vs non power 5 schools with only a few exceptions due to TV contracts and fan interest. Far less money is dedicated to college basketball, even in P5 conferences. On top of that, all schools need a large building to hold graduation ceremonies and other similar events in, so money can be dedicated to arenas that also server other purposes outside of sports (and often support multiple sports) unlike football, which is often dedicated to just a handful of saturdays a season. There are a far more non power 5 conference teams that run superior basketball programs to mid range power 5 conference teams.
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:25 AM
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The "Power 5" name does not come from a team's accomplishments on the field/court. It comes from the "power" the conference yield with the NCAA and the TV outlets. There are schools in the Power 5 whose basketball programs are below schools that are not in a Power 5 conference.
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:33 AM
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That's a very valid point but the two teams you compared for your attendance and support argument is not a convincing one. Ole Miss averaged 7,200 fans last year while Bonaventure only managed 3,900.

And to your point on lazy journalism, I've said multiple times that Dayton does not fall in the mid-major field. Neither does Gonzaga, Wichita, BYU and some others across the country but you can't cover a conference and leave out certain teams. When you cover a conference you have to cover the complete conference regardless of how good or bad they are. Leaving them out would be lazy journalism because you aren't covering everything.
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:59 AM
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If you watch Ole Miss on TV, there may be 7,500 tickets sold, but less than half of that in the stands other than when Big Blue Nation shows up. The handful of games I've seen, including UD games, its friends and family nights. St Bonnies are always rabid (though granted, unlike Ole Miss, they only put the more important Bonnies games on national TV, while Ole Miss and the SEC network get a lot more "uninteresting" games to the general public and student body)

Its lazy journalism, b/c you are putting a program into a classification they don't deserve just b/c they are in the same conference as other teams in that conference. Dayton and others have risen above that level, there is no reason to include them on a list of the best mid-majors. From your end, perhaps its just the situation you are dealt for a chance to write about college athletics and UD in particular. Sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt, and I understand that. The problem is much bigger than this one article. Outside of that, its a solid piece of work, just something that has stuck in my craw for a long time.

FWIW, most other places that offer up a mid-major category, don't include the A10. Most recognize the A10 as multi-bid league, certainly on the low end of the power conferences, but a step above the true mid major conferences like the Horizon, Colonial, MAC, etc.. that are regularly 1 bid leagues, but occasionally enough mult-bid leagues and a huge leap from the low-major conferences like the Sun Belt, MEAC, etc.. that area always 1 bid leagues.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:10 PM
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Thank you for the compliments and I understand what you are saying it's a very valid argument. For mid-major madness, it is a part of the SB Nation websites and the A10 is covered because I'm pretty sure that they don't have a website on that site dedicated to the Atlantic 10 or any individual school. If we left the Atlantic 10 off our coverage, no one would cover it on the SB Nation side besides an article or two every so often. So although the name might throw people off, it's coverage of a team and conference that would not get it on this side otherwise.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:32 PM
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I do not consider UD a 'mid anything' but I can't certainly put UD on par to the POWER 5 conference teams ... why?

Because of the money that pours into ALL the POWER 5 teams from the top teams in a conference through the bottom teams. I was at a OSU football game recently and during TV commercial timeouts they brought a family on the the field and highlighted them on the big screen. Why? The family had donated multiple MILLIONS to the athletic department. If you asked how many families did OSU highlight during this particular game? THREE

Don't know where these families got their money from, but to give that much to a school? Whew! It's their money they can do what they want but it is really hard to compete in those terms. Now I know OSU is on a very top level in a POWER 5 but with all the teams in the Big10 getting TV coverage (and $$) as well as the Big10 network ($$) and all else that goes into media coverage and sales of tics, parking fees, concessions, and royalties from athletic wear ... The POWER 5 is just as the name implies POWER ($$).

UD isn't in that realm .... hence the classification as a "Mid major" as much as I hate to think or say that ... the perception is that.

Now as some have mentioned, there are singular teams in a non-POWER 5 conference that are very well known and respected ... you already know who they are ... so what UD has to do and in my opinion IS doing is gathering the results that leads to a reputation, the media coverage that leads to being well known and expanding on the respectability it already had by playing the way they have played over the past 2 seasons ...

I will be content to having a non-POWER 5 team in a "mid major" conference that is well known, highly regarded (respected) and wins games with class and is fun to watch. And most importantly beats teams from those POWER 5 conferences .....


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Old 10-26-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
FWIW, most other places that offer up a mid-major category, don't include the A10. Most recognize the A10 as multi-bid league, certainly on the low end of the power conferences, but a step above the true mid major conferences like the Horizon, Colonial, MAC, etc.. that are regularly 1 bid leagues, but occasionally enough mult-bid leagues and a huge leap from the low-major conferences like the Sun Belt, MEAC, etc.. that area always 1 bid leagues.
But the argument works in reverse for the Horizon, Colonial, MAC, etc. We're arguing the "mid-" is inaccurate for Dayton, but tell me what is "-major" about those other conferences?? There is nothing major about Miami of Ohio, Ohio U, Wright State, etc. A strong majority of teams in those conferences don't qualify as mid-anything.

If the A10 is a "major" then those conferences are "minors" and the mid-major label applies to no one.
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:14 PM
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To me, 'mid-major' means the same thing as 'underdog', and I love being the underdog...and everyone loves seeing the underdog win.

So it'll never bother me to be called a mid-major...as long as we're winning!
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:29 PM
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To me, major means d1, I've seen it discussed in the past that if you are going to have tiers, there should be high major (8-10 conferences), mid major (the next 10-14 conferences) and low major (the last 9-13 conferences) for a total of 32.

That is another part of the problem, its subjective and gets thrown around far too casually and as I said above, far too lazily without any real research or thought behind the term.

Funny, I always thought the King would like being "The King" the one everyone looks up to and admires and thinks is always the best. Sounds like Rollo needs a new avatar of a lowly serf.
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Old 10-26-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Funny, I always thought the King would like being "The King" the one everyone looks up to and admires and thinks is always the best.





Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Sounds like Rollo needs a new avatar of a lowly serf.

How's this?

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Old 10-26-2015, 02:14 PM
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Ever since the conference came into existence, I think there was only one year where the Atlantic Ten didn't have a team safely inside the bubble. I think it is fair and reasonable to label it a regular multi-bid league.

Third party categories, which is what the media really is, really don't matter to me. It used to for the same reasons some other people have mentioned. I thought it was lazy. But, it doesn't anymore. Unlike football, all the teams truly do start the season at zero. The Colonial isn't usually a multi-bid league, or hasn't been since VCU, ODU and GMU all left, but I think it looks pretty good this year and they could end up putting multiple teams in the field. I don't really care what people label that league, or that sites like Mid Major Madness don't seem to be showing it a whole lot of love.

I mean....come on RedscareRAM!! Northeastern finished strong, won the tournament, almost upset Notre Dame in the NCAAs, has everyone back and....NOTHING?? James Madison, William & Mary, Hofstra and Delaware all return the majority of their starters, could all post good OOC records, and could all raise the level of the conference, yet none of them are getting any attention in the Mid Major Madness Top Fifteen??

But...it doesn't matter, because everyone starts out at zero. If The Atlantic Ten gets out there and wins 75 percent of their OOC games, then they'll send half the league to the tournament just like the power conferences do. The fact that some consider it to be mid major doesn't matter. It's nothing more than a vague adjective.

I actually like the website, BTW. It's rare that I agree entirely with anyone's preseason prognostications.
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Old 10-26-2015, 02:31 PM
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League television package revenue vary greatly, but there is not much if any drop off otherwise to the basketball-centric multi-bid non P5 conferences. But I do think the drop off from the P5 powers to the P5 bottom dwellers is actually greater than the difference between the "Mid-major" power and the "mid major" bottom dweller. I think that is because if you are in a basketball-centric conference, you should be doing everything in your power to compete at basketball. In the P5 conferences, there seem to be programs that don't focus resources to improving the basketball product, content to be mediocre at that sport, while trying to win at football. But as long as Dayton is a basketball power, I don't get the point in whining over semantics.
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:46 PM
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“Mid Major” is a derogatory term to us old guys that reeks of the old line disdain of the big time arrogant programs like the rat faced guy from Doook. Think of it this way. I come from an Irish Catholic eastern US upbringing. When I was a kid, if someone were to call my father a “Mic”, he would put up his fists and go after them. If “someone” today called me a “Mic”, I would look at it as an acknowledgement of my Irish heritage and be proud of it. Even if they put the adjective “dumb” (that was usually associated with the term) in front of it. I don’t think I would be offended in the slightest.
“Mid Major” will never sit too well with my generation! But I can see how the younger generation would see the term differently.

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Old 10-26-2015, 05:03 PM
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I look at it as more of a conference designation, and don't look at any specific teams. I realize there are teams in all conferences with varied degrees of success/histories.

I really don't care if UD is labeled one way or another. Saying that, I did not attend UD (my wife and nephew and many other relatives did, even had a cousin in the team in the early 1960's) so maybe I am not as emotionally attached to the university as you guys.

I have been a UD basketball fan since about 1970. the days of Donald Smith, John Von Lehman (sp), Erv Giddings, Johnny D, Jim Paxson, Jack Zimmerman etc. I hate that the Flyers had not beaten X at their place since the early 80's. I went to Memphis 2 years ago with my nephew, and Columbus this year. Awesome experiences and rank as some of the best sports experiences I have had.

I consider myself a very passionate fan, and the mid-major thing is just a label. True college basketball fans and media types know our history and realize it deserves respect. I am not sure it is worth hassling RS Ram over this trivial issue. I would argue on a national site our merits if I felt the program was being dissed though.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:51 AM
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I was looking at the UDP RPI listing. Season is far from over but right now, N. Florida, Iowa, William & Mary, Monmouth and Chattanooga are all the RPI leaders in their conference. X is in 2nd. Nice scheduling.
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:34 PM
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Video on UD's non-con success featuring Allie Laforce and Reid Forgrave, plus comments from Archie and Kyle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv58...ature=youtu.be
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Video on UD's non-con success featuring Allie Laforce and some dudes:
I have to admit, I only watched it to see Allie.
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
I have to admit, I only watched it to see Allie.
No sh*t!


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Old 01-15-2016, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
No sh*t!


It looks like she needs someone to blow up her floaties. Any volunteers?
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