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Old 03-20-2017, 09:06 PM
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UConn hurting the womens game

Somewhere buried in one of these threads, someone once asked does UConns domination help or hurt the womens game?

Saturday afternoon, my great room had 8 females ages 16 to 18, all of whom play and love the game of basketball, watching TV and eating more Pizza than I knew was possible for girls to eat. Despite the fact several of them had interest in the UD Women, they were flipping between CBS and TNT for coverage of the mens tournament. So at one point I asked why they were watching the dudes instead of girls, and almost simultaneously 3 of them said because Uconn will win it all so why watch? Most acknowledged they rarely watch college womens basketball, and again, the reasoning was the lack of competitive games. No fun to watch blowouts (which I have noticed goes deeper than just a Uconn issue)

While very unscientific of course, I think if you can not keep the interest of high school juniors and senior girls who play the game and are your future potential season ticket holders or sponsors, your really going to struggle expanding your fan base. For the record, most of the girls watch every WNBA game they can.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:59 PM
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The problem isn't UConn

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Somewhere buried in one of these threads, someone once asked does UConns domination help or hurt the womens game?

Saturday afternoon, my great room had 8 females ages 16 to 18, all of whom play and love the game of basketball, watching TV and eating more Pizza than I knew was possible for girls to eat. Despite the fact several of them had interest in the UD Women, they were flipping between CBS and TNT for coverage of the mens tournament. So at one point I asked why they were watching the dudes instead of girls, and almost simultaneously 3 of them said because Uconn will win it all so why watch? Most acknowledged they rarely watch college womens basketball, and again, the reasoning was the lack of competitive games. No fun to watch blowouts (which I have noticed goes deeper than just a Uconn issue)

While very unscientific of course, I think if you can not keep the interest of high school juniors and senior girls who play the game and are your future potential season ticket holders or sponsors, your really going to struggle expanding your fan base. For the record, most of the girls watch every WNBA game they can.
There is a reason why WNBA teams...comprised of the best ever to play...have top salaries of about $100K and often have a sponsor's name on their jerseys in place of the team name. And none of that has anything to do with UConn.

The women's game is a different sport than the men's. But as we experienced at UD, it can be very entertaining and interesting. Unlike the men's game, the drop off in talent beyond the top-tier teams is dramatic. A 16 seed can give a 1 seed a battle in men's BB. It's impossible for a women's 16 seed to beat or even compete with a 1 seed. That's just the way it is.

Nonetheless, over 300 million people live in the U.S.; there are over 300 Div 1 women's teams; and at least ten of them are highly competitive. Those teams are allowed 15 scholarships....UConn for all its excellence has five outstanding players and only two reserves that get any time at all. Depth is a serious problem and there is at least a 50-50 chance that issue will stop UConn from winning it all. There margin for error is zero.

As for the girls in your great room or anyone, or anyone who appreciates excellence in basketball, male or female, watching UConn's five play is a delight. Tonight I was at the UConn-Syracuse 2nd round game. The team play exhibited by UConn's five women was simply a delight to watch.....emphasis on team. Shear brilliance...nothing less. UConn led by 30 at the half and won by 30, i.e., the teams were even in the second half and that was not bcause UConn played reserves or let up. SU, a good team, just got it together in the second half. But, UConn's first half was truly a delight to watch for anyone who enjoys basketball.

Meanwhile, UConn's lack of depth may well cost them in the Dance. And when Auriemma retires in ~ 5 years UConn likely will suffer the same fate as when Calhoun retired. It's Auriemma's program; not UConn's. Meanwhile, although there are far fewer good women's teams than men's, many schools are investing serious money in their women's programs...every bit as much as UConn. The current dominance of UConn will not last.

(One interesting factoid: UConn reports that its women's BB program operates in the red....with expenses exceeding revenue.)
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Somewhere buried in one of these threads, someone once asked does UConns domination help or hurt the womens game?

Saturday afternoon, my great room had 8 females ages 16 to 18, all of whom play and love the game of basketball, watching TV and eating more Pizza than I knew was possible for girls to eat. Despite the fact several of them had interest in the UD Women, they were flipping between CBS and TNT for coverage of the mens tournament. So at one point I asked why they were watching the dudes instead of girls, and almost simultaneously 3 of them said because Uconn will win it all so why watch? Most acknowledged they rarely watch college womens basketball, and again, the reasoning was the lack of competitive games. No fun to watch blowouts (which I have noticed goes deeper than just a Uconn issue)

While very unscientific of course, I think if you can not keep the interest of high school juniors and senior girls who play the game and are your future potential season ticket holders or sponsors, your really going to struggle expanding your fan base. For the record, most of the girls watch every WNBA game they can.
Yes I am the one who wrote the same thing in the original thread. And of course got the same UConn/Geno glasses response from UACFlyer. Take what he says with a grain of salt, as he lives and breathes UConn and Geno.

My sampling was not in one living room but were in restaurants and public places where HS girls were eating/staying in their HS tournaments. One such experience was a HS from Louisville who switched the channel from the womens game to the mens game for the very reasons you gave. Then one of them recognized I was wearing a Dayton hat and responded, oh you have one of our players on your team. I asked if they were Ballard and they said they were and wanted to know how she did.

Stunned I asked don't you follow your teammates when they go D1? Nah, rather watch the men, more interesting and competitive.

While they aspire to play D1 ball they didn't really get into following even their former teammate. Then a couple girls said that they did follow Dayton when they beat Ky and Louisville then led UConn at the half. But other than that no real interest.

I guess most of them know they will probably not even get a bite for D1 ship and certainly not for WNBA, so why bother, its a known fact who is going to win it all anyway.

UConn is the exception in the womens game, there are only a handfull of teams that can compete with them then its blowout city. When in Austin Texas talked with some womens fans who said their 51 point loss to UConn was rediculous and Geno and company tries it best to humiliate their opponents. They did lighten up a little when they realized I was from Dayton and said that we gave them all they could handle in the first half, but then its a 40 minutes game.

So outside of UConn fanbase you are right, very few really care and follow womens basketball, thats why we get the whip around coverage, no enough to watch outside of the fans of the two teams playing, and even then the market is small. Even with the Dayton Flyers, we just can't fill the lower bowl, interest is not there regardless what UACflyer wants to believe.

Once parity takes place and more and more young ladies excel in the game and don't all go to the 5 or so really good schools it will remain what it is.

And yes if you are a UConn fan they would most likely be a joy to watch.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:52 PM
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I think there are a myriad reasons for the UConn domination. Don't forget we had the UCLA domination for the men many years ago. Here are a few of my own thoughts.

1. Even after these many years, the women's game has been forced to its current level by Title IX. This is not to say that is a totally bad thing. I like equal opportunity for all. However, the mandates to make the women close to or equal to the men in many respects is being forced by the government - not the market place or the skill level. This is kind of like government price controls where the market gets distorted because of government intervention. Had the women's game been allowed to develop on its own and at its own pace, I think there would be far greater depth and balance in skill level.

2. I know very few, if any, women's basketball programs that make any money. However, the same can be said for many men's basketball programs and also the majority of football programs. Sports is a loss leader and a status symbol for many universities.

3. There is such a shallow pool of elite level women players - and that pool gravitates to a very small number of universities. I see quick players, I see good shooters, but I don't see a lot players with both skills plus athleticism. How many women shoot an honest to goodness jumper? Not a lot. Most are push shots. The lack of athleticism is most noticeable on defense. As they say- offense wins games, defense wins championships.

4. In the history of the NCAA tournament, only once has a team seeded 14,15, or 16 won a game - Harvard over an injury riddled Stanford in 1998. No 12 or lower seed has ever won a sweet 16 game. With their win tonight, Quinnipiac gets a chance against South Carolina this weekend.

5. I don't get turned off by the fact the women play below the rim. I enjoy a high level of skill.

6. The challenge is to increase the depth of skilled players. Better training, better coaching, better effort - all are part of it.

7. Geno can coach. No doubt about it. Other coaches need to up their game. Just as UCLA on the men's side when Wooden retired, when Geno retires UConn will most likely be a bit less dominant. The really good players will disperse more.

We just need more good women basketball players.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:37 AM
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Don't need to look too much farther to see how this is affecting recruiting. Even at UD what would be considered blue chip bball players who have the ability to play two sports often choose volleyball over basketball for example.

Spoke with families in the past whose daughters have played vball and they said their daughters didn't want to play bball as it wasn't as competitive. At first I thought why wouldn't a gifted player want to aspire to play in the pros (WNBA) but they said that they would rather play vball in the pros after college. I'll admit Im ignorant when it come to pro vball but I guess it exists probably in Europe.

Need to develop parity and interest outside of the half dozen or so schools that get the best talent. Watched an interview with Geno and he is quite psychotic, he looked straight at the camera and said when a player says coach I'm tired, he replys, no your not, I'll tell you when your tiered, and then tells them to get back on the court.

Hopefully he don't have a Steve type incident happen during practice or a game and a players collapses because he won't take them out of the game for being tired. Here is where UACflyer goes ballistic and I am sure I will get another pm calling me names because I don't worship at the feet of Geno.

Where fans have an objection to UConn and Geno is not the win streaks but rather the point spread, average gap between UConn and opponents was 49.8 points per game. Don't follow UConn all that much but how often does Geno put in the walkons? Closer scores even if UConn continues its dominance would keep interest and not push rabid fans away from the sport. Volleyball is gaining in attendance while womens bball is staying stagnate.

Last edited by Avid Flyer; 03-21-2017 at 12:39 AM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:56 AM
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Dynasties are more fun to marvel over when they are in the past. They are not as much fun to live through (if you are not a fan of the dynastic team). Yankees were not good for baseball, the celtics were not actually good for the NBA and the UCLA bruins were not good for the NCAA.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:22 AM
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When you know the outcome of a book, movie or game, why watch? After 100+ consecutive wins, 90+ of which were over at halftime, I understand Clayton's point.

That's why I watch WWE instead! Men....women...midgets....You never know what's going to happen!
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:56 AM
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I do not buy the volleyball over basketball problem. Dudes play football over basketball in huge numbers with no issue. As others point out, it is all about the product, perception and marketing.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Yes I am the one who wrote the same thing in the original thread. And of course got the same UConn/Geno glasses response from UACFlyer.
Thanks Avid. I should have looked harder for the original thread and gave credit where credit was due! I just recalled the conversation on here, and thought my experience Saturday, where I was the bystander, then inquisitive reporter, followed along with the theme from before.

I ignored the Uconn/Geno glasses comments. He is one voice versus my 8 voices in this case, and the dozens more that you know feel the same way.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:05 AM
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The women's tourney is getting more competitive each year but when someone sees a score like 119-30 (Baylor over Texas Southern) they get the impression that nothing has changed.
I still think having the women's tourney at the same time as the men's is not a smart move. The men's tourney ends April 3rd - I'd love to see the women's tourney start the next weekend. Give us access to ALL the games as well.
Did anyone watch Washington and Kelsey Plum score 108 on Oklahoma last night? Tremendous action. But yes there are more clunkers in the women's tourney than the men but I don't believe there's less interest because of UConn.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I do not buy the volleyball over basketball problem. Dudes play football over basketball in huge numbers with no issue. As others point out, it is all about the product, perception and marketing.
Never said it was a problem, it is a choice as is most everything in life. We have had our own two sport players choose vball over bball which at the time I thought was odd since in my mind bball gets lots more coverage and has more life after college. But those who choose vball over bball saw it differently. Since the two sports kinda overlap its hard to be able to play both sports and most schools make you choose one or the other.

My posts and opinions are based on my observations talking with families whose daughters made the choice.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Don't need to look too much farther to see how this is affecting recruiting. Even at UD what would be considered blue chip bball players who have the ability to play two sports often choose volleyball over basketball for example.

Spoke with families in the past whose daughters have played vball and they said their daughters didn't want to play bball as it wasn't as competitive. At first I thought why wouldn't a gifted player want to aspire to play in the pros (WNBA) but they said that they would rather play vball in the pros after college. I'll admit Im ignorant when it come to pro vball but I guess it exists probably in Europe.
I have a daughter who played DI VB at a mid-major, then a couple of years in Europe after that. In her case, while she enjoyed BB in HS, VB was really her passion. At 6'3", she probably could've played DI BB, but she never really had that killer "I'm going to get the ball, no matter what" instinct that the truly great BB players have. At the VB net, however, different story. She also didn't get banged-up nearly as much -- as a post player, she tended to take a lot of abuse, most of it refs never called.

Playing pro in Europe works for WBB, too. For VB, mostly it's a bunch of local sport clubs and they don't make a lot of money. I'd expect it's the same in WBB as well. There are elite teams where elite players, e.g. national team for VB, can make a living, but for most, they get a place to live, some spending cash, and a chance to see another bit of the world. Not a bad thing to do for a couple of years when you're 22.

I'm not sure the NCAA competitiveness angle works here, though, compared to WBB. There's probably less parity in college VB than BB for the women. There are a handful of top P5 teams, and they take all the glory. Sure, the power teams rotate a bit among the P5, but it's pretty consistent. Once in a while, some upstart might make it to the Sweet 16, but that's about as far as it goes.

I've found the NCAA VB tournament goes as seeded more than the BB tournament. It's really unusual for a big upset in the WVB tournament -- I think mainly because of the reset after every set. While poor play can get even a great team in trouble for a set, the next starts off at 0-0 and you just have to win 3 of 5. In BB, a big run of stupid can get you in a hole quickly and you might not be able to play your way out.

Unfortunately, women's teams just don't get much love from the fans or universities. In fact, I think that whatever love they get from the schools is begrudgingly given because of Title IX. Not sure what will really change that.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:22 AM
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Pat Summit had great womens teams and won many championships but she didn't try to bury a team over and over like Geno does. Pat and Tenn played true basketball and most of her games were entertaining and not over by half time. Old Dominion was another program that dominated for a while but again their games were entertaining.

The womens game has come a long way but the bias is still there regarding fans of the mens game to also become fans of the womens game. Too many don't equate the skills of the womens game to the mens game. That is what hurts the womens game, only a few teams have those type skill players and those that do dominate so much that it takes away the interest.

Having womens tourney run after the mens still will not get the interest, as has been pointed out when the HS players themselves don't tune in to watch the games you are not going to get the average bball fan to do so either.

It will take time as more and more girls develop the skill sets to play at the next level. That is why recruiting girls HS players is such a crap shoot. Take Andi, Maddy, SGA etc, the dominated play in HS mostly because the opposition or competition wasn't there making them look greater then they actually were.

Looking at videos of players like the above mention and our incomiing Breen they are so much better than the competition they are playing against in HS that it is hard to gauge how that will equate to D1 ball. As we have seen with our own flyers it always doesn't.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:43 AM
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For those who read the interviews of our womens players before the Tenn game got a dose of reality when the players said how much they admired Pat Summit and watched the Tenn vols play bball. No such comments regarding Geno and UConn, the interest and respect is not there.

When we played UConn there were no similar comments regarding the UConn Huskies.

When Dayton played UConn in the elite 8 Geno's message to his players before the game was he wanted to crush the freshman point guard....in actuality Geno had to call off the full court press as Jenna and the flyers handled it quite well.

If memory serves me, no team has ever lead UConn at the half after the elite 8 run. Tulane was tied with UConn at the half 18-18, so our halftime lead still holds up.

As for interest in the womens game, Della Donne had to reach out to her fans via twitter to get fans to tune into the Dayton-Ky game, then again with the Dayton-Louisville gave, and again to the Dayton-UConn game. With her tweets Dayton may have had a larger following of bball fans on TV than many of the Big Teams.

I believe Shauna Green will get the ladies back into the thick of things regarding next level play and continuous NCAA runs but even with that the lower bowl at the arena doesn't come close to being full. Can't seem to get over the 3K hump.

Personally feel that we need to get some bigs that can finish under the rim to bring in more fans. Too many missed shots just shows lack of skills in the post and until we can compete at all positions the fan base will just stay stagnate. Promos wouldn't hurt either.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:51 AM
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Is UConn hurting the women's game? Absolutely not. Is everyone else failing to reach their level hurting the women's game? Perhaps. Its not the fault of greatness that nobody rises to their challenge, its the job of the challengers to rise up and reach their level. If UConn decided to sit out this tournament, I'm guessing the ratings would fall despite the tournament being much less of a "sure thing."

I don't follow the women's game closely, but I heard on Mike & Mike, that UConn had defeated all the other #1 seeds by (I think) exactly 11 points. That is a sign of a power program willing to go out of conference and play the best of what's available (this is nothing new). Geno saw something admirable in what Jabir was doing at UD and agreed to a game with UD, think Coach K would have done that? Hell, outside of the ACC/B10 challenge, I don't think they've played a true OOC road game in over a decade.

Women's basketball has 99 problems, but UConn isn't one of them.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Is UConn hurting the women's game? Absolutely not. Is everyone else failing to reach their level hurting the women's game? Perhaps. Its not the fault of greatness that nobody rises to their challenge, its the job of the challengers to rise up and reach their level. If UConn decided to sit out this tournament, I'm guessing the ratings would fall despite the tournament being much less of a "sure thing."

I don't follow the women's game closely, but I heard on Mike & Mike, that UConn had defeated all the other #1 seeds by (I think) exactly 11 points. That is a sign of a power program willing to go out of conference and play the best of what's available (this is nothing new). Geno saw something admirable in what Jabir was doing at UD and agreed to a game with UD, think Coach K would have done that? Hell, outside of the ACC/B10 challenge, I don't think they've played a true OOC road game in over a decade.

Women's basketball has 99 problems, but UConn isn't one of them.
You are welcome to your opinion but you said it yourself, you don't follow womens games closely, those of us that do and have contact with the next generation of HS players who won't tune into the womens games says a lot more that what Mike and Mike say.

Got to feed the interest to the next generation of players. If your content with the present womens college bball that is fine. For me I am passionate about the womens game and want to see it excel and draw in a large fans base.

I used to post on dayton rivals site about the womens games using OT: and was chided by some strong men supporters for posting about the women on the mens page. (Actually the website says basketball, doesn't distinguish between men/women).

But lately even some of the dissenters are now posting results comments etc before me. So some interest is growing but way to slow. And the dissenters list the many things we've posted and discussed here on UDPride as to why they can't get on board.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:22 AM
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Notice, I didn't say there were no issues, but my conviction is that whatever those problems might be, shouldn't fall on the doorstop of UConn's women's program, that is essentially telling them that they shouldn't try as hard.

If the competitive nature of the game is one of, or perhaps even the biggest issue w/ the women's game, then its the job of every other program to get better, not the job of UConn to get worse. You are right, I don't follow the game closely, so I what all the problems are, or how they could be fixed isn't something I can speak of intelligently, however anyone blaming UConn for being "too good" is decidedly thinking "un-american". That is the line of reasoning I'd expect to come out of the Venezuelan government.

It is Geno's job to win basketball games (within the context of the rules); it is simply not his fault that no one has a program remotely close to what he's created. Tell them to get better, don't ask Geno to get worse. That is the only point I was trying to make, as the OP seem to lie blame (at least partially) at the UConn program.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:23 AM
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Avid on Geno

Avid's ignorant, mean spirited comments re Auriemma apparently know no bounds. Frankly, I do not understand it.

A few random thoughts:

I have never heard Auriemma speak as highly of an opponent as he did after the Dayton Elite 8 game. He raved and continued to do so for a long time (weeks) afterward. A series with UD was set up soon afterwards.

After UConn pulverized #16 seed Albany the other night, the Albany coach referred to Auriemma as a great man....thanking him profusely for doing everything he could to limit the score.....knowing that the 116-55 score could have been 150-40. The suggestion that he runs up the score is absurd. I have never heard a coach criticize Auriemma other than the Duke coach who recently criticized UConn for accepting transfers from other programs. That doesn't happen often; but a Duke player had recently transferred to UConn.

Auriemma receives many requests from other coaches to travel all the way to CT to sit in on UConn practices...which he always graciously grants...including Dayton's Jim Jabir. Some coaches bring their ADs with them.

Recently Auriemma allowed a visiting coach and her entire team to sit through UConn's last practice the day before playing UConn.

One thing he can't do is instruct his players not to play well.....and because of that, games often get out of hand quickly. Such games are boring, for sure. And in recent years UConn's attendance has fallen off dramatically, well below some other women's teams.

This year he has five very good players...not a single one more. He lost his point guard for a few games recently....played a not-very-good Tulane team and won by three points...a team UConn had beaten two weeks before by 44 points. Because of the depth vulnerability I give UConn no better than a 50-50 chance on winning it all this year.

UConn gets good players...often the best. But that's not close to the full explanation for its success. The current freshman class is not good...one player who can help a bit. Where did all the other very good HS players go? Are we to think that in a country of 300+ million people there were no, or just a few, really good HS players available? Women often like to play close to home....and UConn offers nothing in the way of campus environment or climate. If anything, UConn is disadvantaged re recruiting. There are other very good women's programs....next weekend we'll see them.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:43 AM
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People used to complain that Tiger Woods was ruining golf, that the major tournaments were often no competitive as he'd run away from the field, that it just wasn't fut to watch. However, as Tiger was winning, ratings were way up, revenues were way up. Then Elan took a 9 iron to his face and he's never been the same. Now ratings are down across the board, revenues are down, purses are being cut, etc.. Greatness raises all tides, I assume the same is true in women's hoops. What were the highest rated games this season? I assume most involved UConn women's program.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:52 AM
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To those who don't know me, I am very passionate about anything and everything U of Dayton even though I went to UCLA. I am just as passionate about womens sports and try to promote both as often as I can. This passion drives me to seek out others where ever I may be, from West coast to East coast and down south. I proudly wear my Dayton flyers gear when appropriate (not at business meetings etc) and always willing and able to converse with anyone on the sports mens/womens. May not be totally knowledgeable regarding vball and soccer (rules etc) but I can speak as a devoted fan.

I talk with players, parents, recruits and just persons that are or should be passionate or at the very least interested in their own sport.

Having two children of my own back in the late 70's I couldn't get Kimberly from the age of 9 to want to participate in sports. She and her friends were afraid of being labled for playing mens games. Mia Hamm and company changed all that, but Kim would not even try out. As she put it, there needs to be spectators too, much to my chagrin.

Jeff a year younger was quite the athlete but he and his teammates too were quite bias towards females playing mens sports. Jeff was a pitcher and when he turned 10 was quite the thrower. One game a girl was on the opposing team whom he would walk every time. Finally one game got permission from the coach/manage to go out and talk to Jeff who was about to pitch to the same girl. Asked him if is stated in the box score if he struck out a male or female. Acknowledging that it didn't I then told him to strike her out, shes just another player.

It seemed to hit home as he looked at me and threw a beautiful strike down the center of the plate. She stepped out of the box, looked at her coach then got back in the box where Jeff placed another beauty down the center of the plate. Again she stepped out of the box, looked at her coach and nodded before getting back in the box. Jeff delivered another beauty down the middle (i think as never got to see it) and lo and behold she smacked that sucker out to a sleeping center fielder hitting the scoreboard and clearing the bases. Had to take Jeff out of the game at that time as he was beside himself.

After the game the girl came over to Jeff and said ya know if ya pitch to us girls we can hit the ball, just give a chance. She left a lasting impression on him, so much so that they became an item in HS and later married after college. To this day she won't let him forget it either and used that as a motivator for their four young ladies. And six grandkids.

So its not that I am against Geno and the UConn as much as I am for parity and wanting to see the womens sports grow. Attending UCLA 69-73 I lived through the John Wooden era and saw what it did to the mens teams and plalyers. They became more focused and determined to excel, the game changed and we have now more parity and interest in games. Back in the 50-70 Dayton was the most televised team (only local) but then WHIO/CBS decides to start televising tourney games and we have what has evolved into the multi channel mens games.

I don't see the same reaction from the ladies. Many who choose not to tune in a womens game preferring the mens games instead. Out come too predictable for the womens games they claim. Womens sports will not grow unless the attitude of the HS players changes. Too many are just excited to get a ship. We need a resurgence of interest in womens sports whether its Title IX fault or UConn's dominance of 49 point wins it is having a negative affect on womens bball.

GW with its outstanding players of last several years and wining records still can't consistently draw more than a few hundred people at home, and Dayton with 7 of 8 post season NCAA trips can't draw more than 3k.

East coast posters see no problem, ignoring the white elephant in the room and are content but for those who travel or live outside the east coast the lack of interest and parity is painful to watch.

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Old 03-21-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
People used to complain that Tiger Woods was ruining golf, that the major tournaments were often no competitive as he'd run away from the field, that it just wasn't fut to watch. However, as Tiger was winning, ratings were way up, revenues were way up. Then Elan took a 9 iron to his face and he's never been the same. Now ratings are down across the board, revenues are down, purses are being cut, etc.. Greatness raises all tides, I assume the same is true in women's hoops. What were the highest rated games this season? I assume most involved UConn women's program.
Wrong its wrong to assume as you know what that does. There is a huge difference between men playing sports what ever it is as opposed to women playing the same sports. Womens golf does not get the audiance that the mens game does. As I said above men seem to get more motivated when their is competition and less so for women.

Nice try though to compare something that is not comparable and especially since you admit you just assume. While it should raise all tides it in reality does not. As you pointed out since Tiger 9 irn to the face the ratings are down, revenues are down purses are cut, so you actually answered your own question.....it does not raise all tides.

Also many who followed Tiger saw him as a young lad on the late night TV show with his dad and quite naturally many wanted to see what he'd grow up to be like as a pro.

So according to your opinion UConn's dominance should be raising interest etc but in reality it is not. TV coverage is not expanding, we still get the proverbial whip around.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Avid's ignorant, mean spirited comments re Auriemma apparently know no bounds. Frankly, I do not understand it.

A few random thoughts:

I have never heard Auriemma speak as highly of an opponent as he did after the Dayton Elite 8 game. He raved and continued to do so for a long time (weeks) afterward. A series with UD was set up soon afterwards.

After UConn pulverized #16 seed Albany the other night, the Albany coach referred to Auriemma as a great man....thanking him profusely for doing everything he could to limit the score.....knowing that the 116-55 score could have been 150-40. The suggestion that he runs up the score is absurd. I have never heard a coach criticize Auriemma other than the Duke coach who recently criticized UConn for accepting transfers from other programs. That doesn't happen often; but a Duke player had recently transferred to UConn.

Auriemma receives many requests from other coaches to travel all the way to CT to sit in on UConn practices...which he always graciously grants...including Dayton's Jim Jabir. Some coaches bring their ADs with them.

Recently Auriemma allowed a visiting coach and her entire team to sit through UConn's last practice the day before playing UConn.

One thing he can't do is instruct his players not to play well.....and because of that, games often get out of hand quickly. Such games are boring, for sure. And in recent years UConn's attendance has fallen off dramatically, well below some other women's teams.

This year he has five very good players...not a single one more. He lost his point guard for a few games recently....played a not-very-good Tulane team and won by three points...a team UConn had beaten two weeks before by 44 points. Because of the depth vulnerability I give UConn no better than a 50-50 chance on winning it all this year.

UConn gets good players...often the best. But that's not close to the full explanation for its success. The current freshman class is not good...one player who can help a bit. Where did all the other very good HS players go? Are we to think that in a country of 300+ million people there were no, or just a few, really good HS players available? Women often like to play close to home....and UConn offers nothing in the way of campus environment or climate. If anything, UConn is disadvantaged re recruiting. There are other very good women's programs....next weekend we'll see them.
Quite frankly you won't admit anything regarding Geno and his take on the sport. Apparently you did not watch the Geno interview where he tells his players your not tired unless I say so, or where he says your not a great player unless I say so.

So go on and show your bias toward Geno and UConn and continue to call people who disagree with you names. You used the same tactic in the off topic threads on politics.

Go look in the mirror then you might understand a thing or two.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:21 PM
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Our opinions...

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Quite frankly you won't admit anything regarding Geno and his take on the sport. Apparently you did not watch the Geno interview where he tells his players your not tired unless I say so, or where he says your not a great player unless I say so.....

Avid, what you and I think about Geno Auriemma matters not at all. He is at the top of his profession. Much is written and said about him. That being the case, I, and I suppose other Priders, would be interested in anything you can find in the media or elsewhere re comments about GA by other coaches, analysts, whomever, that reflect poorly on Auriemma.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Notice, I didn't say there were no issues, but my conviction is that whatever those problems might be, shouldn't fall on the doorstop of UConn's women's program, that is essentially telling them that they shouldn't try as hard.

If the competitive nature of the game is one of, or perhaps even the biggest issue w/ the women's game, then its the job of every other program to get better, not the job of UConn to get worse. You are right, I don't follow the game closely, so I what all the problems are, or how they could be fixed isn't something I can speak of intelligently, however anyone blaming UConn for being "too good" is decidedly thinking "un-american". That is the line of reasoning I'd expect to come out of the Venezuelan government.

It is Geno's job to win basketball games (within the context of the rules); it is simply not his fault that no one has a program remotely close to what he's created. Tell them to get better, don't ask Geno to get worse. That is the only point I was trying to make, as the OP seem to lie blame (at least partially) at the UConn program.
You seem to missing the point of this thread completely. Of course Geno's job is to win games and get the best players he can and the job of the other programs to elevate their programs. The problems which have been expounded on are the next generation of players are not tuning in to watch the game as the outcome is known. So the question is how do you get the HS players to buy into their own sport.

If they won't tune into to watch their own sport because of UConn's dominance and I don't mean just winning but beating teams to oblivion then yes it becomes problematic that the sport suffers because of the lack of skilled players who mostly want to play for Geno and who
Geno tells a recruit who doesn't commit right away that then maybe they aren't as good as they think they are.

Its funny those who find nothing wrong with the current system/sport are either east coast bias fans or fans who don't even follow the sport.

I am in full agreement that the rest of the programs need to elevate their programs to compete against the best, but when that one programs win margins are so lopsided that the HS players (except those who aspire to play for UConn) won't tune into their own sport. Then it becomes a problem for everyone UConn included. The sport will not grow or attract top athletes whom may choose a different sport altogether.

So the opinion is that there are less than 10 top players in the USA/world and they all end up at UConn and that somehow will increase interest.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Wrong its wrong to assume as you know what that does. There is a huge difference between men playing sports what ever it is as opposed to women playing the same sports. Womens golf does not get the audiance that the mens game does. As I said above men seem to get more motivated when their is competition and less so for women.

Nice try though to compare something that is not comparable and especially since you admit you just assume. While it should raise all tides it in reality does not. As you pointed out since Tiger 9 irn to the face the ratings are down, revenues are down purses are cut, so you actually answered your own question.....it does not raise all tides.

Also many who followed Tiger saw him as a young lad on the late night TV show with his dad and quite naturally many wanted to see what he'd grow up to be like as a pro.

So according to your opinion UConn's dominance should be raising interest etc but in reality it is not. TV coverage is not expanding, we still get the proverbial whip around.
I think the Tiger factor does prove that theory, once tiger was essentially out of the game, ratings fell. Tiger had more than greatness going for him, he also represented an African-American in a game historically dominated by white people, so I think that brought a whole new demographic to the TV (and the courses) that wasn't really interested before. I can't speak for everyone, but UConn is the 1 story in women's basketball that I'm even remotely aware of outside of UD's women's hoop team.

anyhoo, enough on that point. Are you saying that women are turned off by the competition? If that is the case, then what the heck is the point of playing the game on that level anyways? With young children its all about learning to listen to a coach, work within a team and getting some semblance of physical fitness. Once you get to high school (and w/ select programs often well before that, sadly) and beyond, the point is to be as great as you can be, to take down whomever is deemed to be "the greatest". At least it is in men's sports. If the objective in the women's game hasn't changed by that point, then IMHO you are doomed to fail. Nobody wants to watch or read about 40 year old + men playing pickup hoops. No body wants to watch young, healthy fit women (or men for that matter) play pick up hoops. If the idea isn't to be as great as you can be, then what the heck is the point?

You are saying that is a problem with interest in women's hoops, I won't disagree, I don't have a solution, I just know that making UConn bad isn't going to fix that issue, which is what the OP was getting at. So what is the solution. You can't just make somebody care, perhaps boys and girls are just wired different. I know my 8 year old son and 4 year old daughter view sports completely differently and its not because we told our son to love them and want to play something every season of the year and our daughter to be indifferent.

Is it possible you just care about the sport significantly more than the general population ever will, perhaps even more than those that play it?
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:30 PM
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Football and men's basketball limited scholarships years ago in order to spread the wealth to other schools. Would women's bball do the same in order to try and break up the UConn dynasty?

I doubt it. But wouldn't doubt it's been discussed behind closed doors.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Avid, what you and I think about Geno Auriemma matters not at all. He is at the top of his profession. Much is written and said about him. That being the case, I, and I suppose other Priders, would be interested in anything you can find in the media or elsewhere re comments about GA by other coaches, analysts, whomever, that reflect poorly on Auriemma.
Just look at the interview of Geno before the NCAA's it says it all. Of course I don't expect you to view it.

Regarding players, recruits families I've spoken with I can't tell their experience without their permission. It wasn't an interview, just small talk that would more than likely not come out in a full interview.

But you go ahead and show your true colors, calling people who don't agree with you names. My pm box is getting responses to your obsession and its not kind. Many priders have had their fill with your obsessions whether its UConn or Politics, and your name calling...not very classy.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:56 PM
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Geno wins because get gets the best players every year. He wins by 40 every night because he's an unbelievable coach. Hes one of only maybe 2-3 coaches I firmly believe could coach a terrible team with terrible players and get them to some semblance of respectability by just teaching them how to train and prepare and play.

He could coach any other NCAA team and with the same roster of players probably win more games. Even at schools like SC, ND, and Baylor where they pretty much only lose to UConn and each other.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:23 PM
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UConn should not get worse just to make women's hoops more competitive.

That women's hoops is not nearly as competitive as men's is an issue for the women's game. But that's not UConn's problem. It's everyone else's, including the NCAA. They have to find ways to get better. Or find ways that result in distribution of limited talent. One way would be to limit women's scholarships to 10. But that will cause Title IX issues.

And until others get better, the NCAA restricts scholarships to all schools that reflect the talent pool, or some other solution is developed, UConn should kick arse and try to win 300 in a row.

I didn't see Wooden and UCLA saying we're too good, we can't sign Bill Walton so someone else can win back in the 60s or 70s. Nor did I see Oklahoma and Bud Wilkinson decide to weaken their football program in the 50s because they won too many. Heck, in recent times I didn't see Mount Union quit trying to dominate D3 football because they were too good.

Women's hoops has a problem. Putting the problem on UConn's doorstep is misguided in my opinion.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:38 PM
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I see we have a lot of UConn supporters, well lets put it this way: If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. Not all of it certainly but something has too be done or title IX will be useless. Just guaranteeing a female gets a ship is not the solution, it needs to create competition among the 300 plus schools not just a half dozen or it won't grow and won't help title IX's goal to provide equal opportunity for females.

So I will stick with my premise, UConn is not helping womens basketball. You say its up to the programs to elevate, fine but what are anyone doing to elevate the interest of the next generations. That is where you start. No interest from HS players equals not growth in the sport.

Someone needs to take an interest, take a role in generating that interest in the growth of the programs or it will remain what it is.

As I said the UDflyers who were interviewed spoke highly of Pat Summit and Tenn vols, none speak of UConn that way. Both UConn and Tenn when they dominated the sport did so in different way. The Vols were entertaining to watch, interest was there.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:42 PM
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Regarding Geno. Several years ago he was highly sought after to coach a mens team. Now that is where his stock as a great coach would rise. If he could do it with a womens team could he also do it coaching a mens team. Obviously the stakes would be higher, more parity and competition....but alas he turned down the opportunity to stay the big cheese in womens basketball where their is less parity and competition.

He should take over the mens UConn team and see if he could resurrect it to its former status.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:44 PM
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Really interesting, Avid,...

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
....Regarding players, recruits families I've spoken with I can't tell their experience without their permission.....My pm box is getting responses to your obsession and its not kind. Many priders have had their fill with your obsessions whether its UConn or Politics, and your name calling...not very classy.
Interesting Avid, you have inside connections to players and their families that have "experiences" re Auriemma that you can't reveal without their "permission".

And, your pm box is filling up with complaints from others re my "obsessions" re UConn and politics". I wonder why my pm box isn't getting blitzed since it's my views that are so disturbing. Indeed, I've received three negative pips nearly a decade as a Prider....the last one being almost a year ago.

But our mutual Pride friends are burying you with "unkind" comments abut me. Interesting, indeed.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Interesting Avid, you have inside connections to players and their families that have "experiences" re Auriemma that you can't reveal without their "permission".

And, your pm box is filling up with complaints from others re my "obsessions" re UConn and politics". I wonder why my pm box isn't getting blitzed since it's my views that are so disturbing. Indeed, I've received three negative pips nearly a decade as a Prider....the last one being almost a year ago.

But our mutual Pride friends are burying you with "unkind" comments abut me. Interesting, indeed.
Why would they pm you, you have no regard for anyone not of your thinking.

Even if I had their permission you would scoff at it as you don't believe anything that is contrary to your liking. It would be best for them to speak up themselves.

Red reps aren't the only way priders respond to your ilk, just go back and read the responses to your political posts. I personally don't give red reps if I have anything to say to someone I post it for all to see. I don't hide behind a pm and call a person name like you do.

But to answer you, yes I speak to everyone even people that I don't agree with. I would even speak to you in person, don't mean I have to agree but out of respect for being a flyer fanatic.

Maybe you should try and speak to some of the players, families etc and get a different perspective from your own. Some will agree with you while some will not.

Difference between you and me is Im passionate about all things UD and follow and support all sports including all womens sports attending as many games as I can home and away, while you are passionate about UConn and Geno.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:26 PM
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As a guy who has watched, coached and refereed WBB for some of the last 20 years, I'll just put in my vote that UConn has nothing to do with the lack of popularity of WBB. If anything they give it more interest. WBB is not a problem only at the college level, it is the same disparity of interest at elementary, JR High, HS and Pros. Part of it certainly is of a conscious and unconscious sexist nature (there someone said it), but it is a more complex problem than that.

Why, except in Indiana, does pro and college basketball outdraw HS basketball? Why does a great competitive championship WBB team at a college or HS level not outdraw a mediocre MBB team? Why does Major League Baseball do so well, but most college programs draw very little? Million dollar questions, but nothing to do with UConn being the best that they can be.

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:26 PM
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I am neither a UConn supporter or a UConn detractor, but I am a fan of greatness. Sometimes that greatness comes from teams I HATE (hello Steeler fans) and sometimes it comes from teams I love (hello Jordan era Bulls), usually the teams I follow are somewhere less than all time greats. There is no debate that the UConn's women's program is at an all time level of greatness in their sport, and for that I appreciate the accomplishment, even if I've probably watched less than 200 minutes of combined game time across the span of Geno's tenure. In an artificially leveled playing field, to win 100+ games over the span of multiple seasons with multiple players is absolutely amazing.

Perhaps you hit the issue on the head in your first post about the women's basketball team coming into a restaurant and flipping the game from a women's game to a men's game. If you can't get those girls to care, then who are you going to get to care? Perhaps its just nature, I don't think I'm off base when I say that the average male care significantly more about sports than the average women. Certainly there are acceptations both ways, but I think that generally holds true. In my own world, my wife only watches sporting events because my children or her nieces/nephews are playing in them or because I'm watching them. This is a women who regularly listens to Mike and Mike, but the only time I can remember her actively flipping on sports outside of the Olympics is when she was home 9 months pregnant with our oldest and Tiger Woods was playing on a monday for a major title (18 hole playoff for the US open). I have a couple of female friends that gave up HS sports to play rec because they "just wanted to have fun" not have to compete with friends for playing time.

If you want to grow the sport you'll need to get those HS female basketball players to care about the sport. I doubt its UConn blowing people out or winning however many titles in a row that is keeping them from being interested. As an avid UD fan, I recognize that the odds of them winning a national title is remote at best, the odds of them landing a recruiting class similar to what Kentucky recruits is even worse. There are teams that play college basketball beyond the UConn women, Kentucky or Duke Men, they even had a former teammate that paid so little attention to they had no clue how she was doing. I knew more or less how every person I played HS football with was doing in major D1 football just by flipping on the TV, reading box scores or checking the internet (kind of limited at the time, but certainly not the case w/ those HS girls and their former teammate now at UD). That is a sign of girls that don't share the same passion for their sport as I did. From my experience that seems much more common. Personally, I think that is just human nature, and would be tough to change in any sort of quick capacity.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I'll just put in my vote, that UConn has nothing to do with the lack of popularity of WBB. If anything they give it more interest. WBB is not a problem only at the college level, it is the same disparity of interest at elementary, JR High, HS and Pros. Part of it certainly is of a conscious and unconscious sexist nature (there someone said it), but it is a more complex problem than that.

Why, except in Indiana, does pro and college basketball outdraw HS basketball? Why does a great competitive championship WBB team at a college or HS level not outdraw a mediocre MBB team? Why does Major League Baseball do so well, but most college programs draw very little? Million dollar questions, but nothing to do with UConn being the best that they can be.
I don't think its sexist at all, I think its just reality. My son play rec league basketball in Centerville in 1st grade last year, there was a mix of girls and boys on the teams, however there were only roughly 2 girls per team (4 teams total in the league), his son was "lucky" in that he had 1 of the 2 girls in the league that you could tell really wanted to be good. This year he moved to a tougher league, still rec in nature, but much more competitve, this league doesn't even offer girls teams until the 3rd grade, and I doubt its because they are sexist, I assume its because there is no interest. I'm sure there are other leagues, but if you consider that in centerville, OH last year, there may have only been 8 girls interested in playing rec league basketball shows the volume of interest.

I've talked to friends who have a daughter that plays softball, and they constantly say how low interest is. This year there are 4 teams in the 6U soft-tee ball league, another 5 teams in the 8U softball league from my area. I don't know about the 8U, but the 6U doesn't play any outfielders, which means that their numbers are going to be lower per team. On the boys side, there are 14 tee ball teams, 11 coach pitch 1 (6 & 7 year olds) and 9 coach pitch 2 teams (typically 7 & 8 year olds) , not to mention 2 select teams plus I know other kids that play select baseball on teams not associated w/ the Centerville programs. It wasn't uncommon to see my kids tee ball games have 12 or more kids out on the field at once if all kids were present, 10 was the norm in coach pitch 1 & 2, though I recall one game where the opposing team had 11 kids on the field since everyone was there) there are significantly more young boys that are interested in these 2 sports in the Centerville area than there are girls. Personally, I've asked my 4 year old daughter if she wants to play soft tee ball (she always say no), martial arts (she always says no) or basketball (she always says no) but she did agree to soccer and we are forcing her to do summer swim team this year. She loves dance and has taken that for several years, but just doesn't care for sports the way her brother does (he's played soccer, football, basketball, baseball, swimming, and Karate). It may simple be that there isn't the desire by the typical girl to play high level sports. It seems like there is significantly higher interest today than there was 50 years ago, but there may never be a time where there is the level required to push the women's college game to the same level that the men's game experiences in terms of competition.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:02 PM
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In the history of the 64-team NCAA WBB bracket, a #14, #15, or #16 seed has won just once...#16 Harvard over #1 Stanford. And it was extenuating circumstances as Stanford was out players due to injury. Its like a collective 1-286 for these seeds. Yet on the men's side these upsets have happened quite a few times -- dare I say almost every year the bracket gives us a #14 or #15 seed victory. Certainly tons of #13s.

There is no parity in WBB because the talent pool is so much lower. Very few good players. Most HS ball is filled with players that are there to fill a Title-IX-esque agenda at the prep level. A school as a boys team, so they naturally have to have a girls team -- even though the talent of qualified girls players really does not suggest a team should be created in the first place.

The positive side of this is if you have a work ethic and a modicum of DNA as a girl, you can make far faster and quicker strides up the ladder and do well for yourself. Its a much greater opportunity to stand out and go to college. Everybody on a mens college team is a decent player and athlete -- even on Alabama A&M they can dunk all day and probably make guys like us look like chumps. In the womens game however, many lack basic physical tools or skill sets.

Unfortunately, the developed kids out of HS basically go to about 5 schools: UConn, ND, Maryland, Baylor, Duke, etc.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:19 PM
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UConn is hurting interest in women's basketball, I don't think there is any doubt.

But, there are other issues. Someone in this thread said that they can appreciate skilled play below the rim. I am in that same boat and don't really understand why many feel that dunking the ball is such a great thing when the players have 40" verticals. Big deal. There aren't many dunks that make me say WOW. I appreciate LeBron running the length of the court to block a shot above the rim more than almost any dunk. Or, seeing someone shoot a 20' runner because I know that a lot of work went into doing that repeatedly. When Kelley and Jenna are playing well it is fun for me to watch. When a woman's player makes five three pointers in a row I enjoy that, again because I know the work that went into it.

But, many potential fans cannot get over the fact that the women don't dunk and don't have as many crazy athletic plays.

UConn routinely gets top of the top recruits. But UConn wouldn't have won 100 games in a row without great coaching. The attention to detail is tremendous. Watch when they throw an entry pass into the post. They don't just throw the ball hoping the offensive player can catch it. They wait until the offensive player is in perfect position and throw it to one shoulder in particular which gives the offensive player an easier shot. I'm sure if I watched more games I give 10 other examples of making players play to a high level.

I hope that Maryland can knock them off, it would be great for the women's game
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:01 PM
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Yea never really understood the fans going balistic over a dunk by someone with that type of wingspan. Now the other day a 5'5" guard stole the ball or got a rebound and was running the court for what was sure to be a dunk attempt except he lost the ball off his foot/leg. Now that would have bee awesome but for anyone 6'6" or above to dunk, really what is so awesome about that.

Watching Kelley wield her way around post players for a layup (did it several times against Breanna of UConn) is a thing of beauty.

What ever the issue hopefully we find a solution to attract HS girls to the sport for the love of the game, not to just get a ship.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:11 PM
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most people grow up dreaming of dunking, most end up not being able to dunk, even fewer that can dunk w/ any type of "authority" Most anyone that has played basketball makes a layup at some point, hits a free throw, or makes a mid range jumper.

Pretty much as simple as that, if everyone could dunk the way LeBron dunks, nobody would get excited about it.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
I see we have a lot of UConn supporters....
In no way, shape or form am I a UConn supporter. I have no real interest in whether they win or lose.

But I don't think they should take the blame for the issues in women's hoops.

And I don't think they are the problem with the level of interest in women's hoops. I worked with someone who played for a school that has beaten UConn within the last 10 years. I asked if she watched the women's NCAA. She said never. I asked even the final four, or an ND/UConn/Baylor/Stanford game where it would be competitive at the highest level. She said no. When I asked why, she said I like the men's game better. It's more interesting, better talent, more aspirational to me. Women's games are boring to watch.

It's little different than women's golf, the WNBA, women's soccer. The men outdraw, have more following, attract more dollars. It's not sexist, it just is. If the womens' NCAA was as competitive as the mens, I think they would still have the interest issue. UConn not making a final four for the next 10 years wouldn't fix it.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:11 PM
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Doug's right...

Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
In no way, shape or form am I a UConn supporter. I have no real interest in whether they win or lose.

But I don't think they should take the blame for the issues in women's hoops.

And I don't think they are the problem with the level of interest in women's hoops. I worked with someone who played for a school that has beaten UConn within the last 10 years. I asked if she watched the women's NCAA. She said never. I asked even the final four, or an ND/UConn/Baylor/Stanford game where it would be competitive at the highest level. She said no. When I asked why, she said I like the men's game better. It's more interesting, better talent, more aspirational to me. Women's games are boring to watch.

It's little different than women's golf, the WNBA, women's soccer. The men outdraw, have more following, attract more dollars. It's not sexist, it just is. If the womens' NCAA was as competitive as the mens, I think they would still have the interest issue. UConn not making a final four for the next 10 years wouldn't fix it.
The student section is 1/3 full for UConn women's games and packed to watch a mediocre (this year) men's team. Nonetheless, the women's game can be entertaining and can develop an impressive fan base. Recall the excitement two seasons ago when the Flyers made the Eiite 8.

And, while average attendance of ~3000 does not come close to our men's attendance, it's a far, far cry from the few hundred of many women's programs. Dayton has a solid program that, if consistently good, could draw ~ 5000. That's not the ~ 13,000 that flock to men's games. But it's d@mn good.

A near-filled lower bowl at the Arena would be a great atmosphere.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:15 PM
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Okay so you don't think it is UConn that is keeping interest in womens bball down, that is your right and opinion, it seems that we have as many who feel otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion nor yours really matter, its the up and coming HS girls that matters. Admiration for Pat Summit and the Lady Vols abound by HS and flyers alike, not so for the UCOnn Huskies.

Either way it don't solve the problem.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The student section is 1/3 full for UConn women's games and packed to watch a mediocre (this year) men's team. Nonetheless, the women's game can be entertaining and can develop an impressive fan base. Recall the excitement two seasons ago when the Flyers made the Eiite 8.

And, while average attendance of ~3000 does not come close to our men's attendance, it's a far, far cry from the few hundred of many women's programs. Dayton has a solid program that, if consistently good, could draw ~ 5000. That's not the ~ 13,000 that flock to men's games. But it's d@mn good.

A near-filled lower bowl at the Arena would be a great atmosphere.
Yes it would but even with our success of the last 8 years and the elite 8 run season tickets didn't sales didn't escalate.

They were expecting 8k at the Dayton SLU game but winter storms kept the crowd down, still near 3k. Its a slow uphill battle to compete for attendance. New Mexico gets an average 8k per game for the women after giving away seats for years. It has paid off, but lets be honest their is not a lot to do in New Mexico in the winter.

May not see it in my lifetime but would be really excited to see the lower bowl filled for most games. I feel Shauna Green will bring in qualitiy players and build on what Jabir established as the norm.

We will get a real idea of where womens bball stands when UConn and the Huskies visit the UD arena.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:27 PM
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I agree w/Doug that womens sports greatest impediment to generating more interest is they do not win over their own kind -- other female fans. Most women prefer watching men's sports. Half the UK fans I saw in Indy were women. I doubt many ever go to a UK womens game - a team that's admittedly very good.

How many UD students go to a UD WBB game? 15? 20? And that's being generous. More than half the student body is female. Good seats available. But they have no interest. But half the fans in the filled student section at the MBB game are women. Until women win over women, I doubt much changes. Which is a shame because when WBB is played at a high level its pretty darn good.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
I agree w/Doug that womens sports greatest impediment to generating more interest is they do not win over their own kind -- other female fans. Most women prefer watching men's sports. Half the UK fans I saw in Indy were women. I doubt many ever go to a UK womens game - a team that's admittedly very good.

How many UD students go to a UD WBB game? 15? 20? And that's being generous. More than half the student body is female. Good seats available. But they have no interest. But half the fans in the filled student section at the MBB game are women. Until women win over women, I doubt much changes. Which is a shame because when WBB is played at a high level its pretty darn good.
Which goes back to the first post here and several years ago. HS girls don't watch womens basketball. Can come up with a number of reasons but those who Clayton had in his house and I talked with gave their reasons and their reasons are more valid than than just opinions on here.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:11 PM
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Whenever something is predicable it becomes boring and people stop paying attention.

My favorite movie is Charlton Heston's The 10 Commandments. I watch it every year at Easter, start to finish. But if TBS started an Easter week 10 Commandments marathon showing it repeated for 7 days, I'd watch it once and be done. By the 2nd time it's still fun but by the 3rd it's time to move on.

UConn to women's NCAA basketball is like the 8th consecutive rerun of the 10 Commandments. Even diehards like me are going to turn it off.

So let it be written.

So let it be done.

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:52 PM
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I like watching competitive basketball whether it is men's or women's, but I have absolutely no interest in watching the NCAA women's tournament because I already know what the ultimate outcome is going to be. If by some miracle UConn is in a close game and might lose twitter will tell me and I can turn the game on. The only game I turned on this year was the UD vs UT game.

Also the NCAA having the womens games on 3 out of the 4 same days as the men is a mistake. I would much rather be watching a women's tournament game than this TCU Richmond NIT game that is on right now. They should play the first two weeks on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday which would give the games the least amount of overlap as possible with the mens' tournament games.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Yes it would but even with our success of the last 8 years and the elite 8 run season tickets didn't sales didn't escalate.

They were expecting 8k at the Dayton SLU game but winter storms kept the crowd down, still near 3k. Its a slow uphill battle to compete for attendance. New Mexico gets an average 8k per game for the women after giving away seats for years. It has paid off, but lets be honest their is not a lot to do in New Mexico in the winter.

May not see it in my lifetime but would be really excited to see the lower bowl filled for most games. I feel Shauna Green will bring in qualitiy players and build on what Jabir established as the norm.

We will get a real idea of where womens bball stands when UConn and the Huskies visit the UD arena.
We moved to the area in mid-2012 and started coming to WBB games for the 12-13 season. Our first year, season tickets were $30 and at the Blue/Red scrimmage day (not sure exactly what it's called), season tickets were 2 for 1 -- A terrific deal. I think they were $30 the next season as well.

Since then, season tickets are $50. While I still consider that a bargain, that's a 66% increase over a couple of years ago. If you're trying to build attendance and fill the lower bowl, price will be important. I'm not sure what the right price point is, but it seems to me that as the program built success and reputation, season ticket price increased ahead of consistent attendance.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer View Post
We moved to the area in mid-2012 and started coming to WBB games for the 12-13 season. Our first year, season tickets were $30 and at the Blue/Red scrimmage day (not sure exactly what it's called), season tickets were 2 for 1 -- A terrific deal. I think they were $30 the next season as well.

Since then, season tickets are $50. While I still consider that a bargain, that's a 66% increase over a couple of years ago. If you're trying to build attendance and fill the lower bowl, price will be important. I'm not sure what the right price point is, but it seems to me that as the program built success and reputation, season ticket price increased ahead of consistent attendance.
have a couple friends who have moved to Dayton from Dallas who at first were quite upset with the move to keep their jobs. Now some 6 years later when they could have returned to Dallas to again keep their jobs the elected to stay in Dayton and have become avid fans of the flyers both men and women. Both families were NCR employees who opted out of NCR to remain in the Dayton area, they now love it and think its a great place to raise their families. Both live in the Bellbrook area. So even transplants like your self can help build the fan base.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I like watching competitive basketball whether it is men's or women's, but I have absolutely no interest in watching the NCAA women's tournament because I already know what the ultimate outcome is going to be.
I'm sure that's the case for some.

But, in my opinion, if that were the primary reason then women's golf, the WNBA, women's softball, women's soccer - all sports that do not have pre-ordained winners - would draw better than they do.

And it didn't hurt men's basketball attendance and viewing when UCLA dominated as the UConn women do. I think the problem is far deeper, but UConn always winning is just easy to point to and articulate. If they didn't win, I don't think it would change as the other sports have the same issues.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
I'm sure that's the case for some.

But, in my opinion, if that were the primary reason then women's golf, the WNBA, women's softball, women's soccer - all sports that do not have pre-ordained winners - would draw better than they do.

And it didn't hurt men's basketball attendance and viewing when UCLA dominated as the UConn women do. I think the problem is far deeper, but UConn always winning is just easy to point to and articulate. If they didn't win, I don't think it would change as the other sports have the same issues.
Can't compare UCLA dominance with UConn's. There was parity in mens basketball back then as there is now more so than there is with UConn and the womens game. Even Dayton was able to compete against UCLA going triple overtimes. The women have at most a half dozen really good teams then the fall off is dramatic.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
I'm sure that's the case for some.

But, in my opinion, if that were the primary reason then women's golf, the WNBA, women's softball, women's soccer - all sports that do not have pre-ordained winners - would draw better than they do.

And it didn't hurt men's basketball attendance and viewing when UCLA dominated as the UConn women do. I think the problem is far deeper, but UConn always winning is just easy to point to and articulate. If they didn't win, I don't think it would change as the other sports have the same issues.
You hit the nail on the head. To blame lack of interest on UConn is absurd. Teams play 30 games and never play UConn, or even make the tourney. Who cares week to week about UConn? You are watching your team and who they play. Realistically about 340 men's teams have no shot at winning the men's championship, but yet they get fans and plenty of eyeballs.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
You hit the nail on the head. To blame lack of interest on UConn is absurd. Teams play 30 games and never play UConn, or even make the tourney. Who cares week to week about UConn? You are watching your team and who they play. Realistically about 340 men's teams have no shot at winning the men's championship, but yet they get fans and plenty of eyeballs.
GOOD points made by you, Doug and others. it is true that attendance during the season at Ud or any other school is not affected by UConn's dominance. Attending a women's game at Ud is simply a question of whether you have enough interest to get off your butt, drive over and spend $6 for a ticket. Considering that you always get a great seat I think it is a bargain. And there aren't major traffic issues to deal with.

However, i do think that it could hurt interest in the tournament . But, if Ud was playing in the tournament I would watch. If UD isn't in the tournament I had the choice of watching a men's game or women's game I would also watch the men's game.

Since the analyst said that Maryland had the best chance of beating UConn I might tune in to watch some of that and hope for the upset
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:35 PM
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Advice from the WWF

UConn needs to become the bad-girls of college basketball. They need to wear black uniforms, black socks and use black mouthguards...and go out with an attitude and destroy teams (which they already do).

Hire Dennis Rodman as an assistant coach...dress students in Oakland Raiders type spiked gear and make everyone HATE them.

Gino needs to get a microphone and tell the world their mission is to level everything in their path, all opponents will become prisoners and - oh by the way - everyone, including the NCAA now works for him.

Lights out at team intros...no hand shaking...free band-aid promotions sponsored by Urgent Care...etc...

Get the country to hate you and everyone will watch.

At that point, UConn basketball will be GREAT for the women's side of things because the world will tune in just hoping to see someone get leveled or - God willing - see the upset of the century.

Just my Royal Rumble 2-cents.

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Old 03-29-2017, 04:04 PM
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Women's basketball team for Connecticut unloaded from their bus at a downtown hotel in Dallas Texas. I saw them as i am at the hotel. These are very tall girls. They are wearing white uniform tops that say, "UCON". I won't mention the name of the hotel for security reasons.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:38 PM
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Good discussion.

Some random thoughts:
Women's college sports on a level with men are fairly recent additions and have fan base issues like you all describe. Students do not attend sports like in the old days, other interests occupy their time.

There are a dozen more NCAA sports which don't generate much interest. Basketball and football alone seem to have a lock on media attention.

Adults get to view 35 men's basketball games and they are maxed out to support much else at the college level.

Even without UCONN women's basketball and women's sports in general would be struggling for interest.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:50 PM
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Rollo, people will watch UConn if they think the other team has a chance. Nobody other than UConn fans will tune in if they expect another 40 point beat down. If I think they are going to lose a particular game I might be watching

Gino spoke recently about their practices and how they practice like it is their last one, every play is important. It isn't just that they have great players, they maximize their capabilities to a large extent. If you get buy in from the players that you are always going to practice at 100% for every minute you can be a great team. That is the buy in you want from your team.

When you are shooting free throws you are focusing on them like it is the last shot to win a game. When you pass it to the post you are putting it to the right spot. When you pass it to a spot up shooter you always put the ball to their chest, not off to the side or at their knees, you box out on every single rebound, you square up on every single shot etc If you do this in practice the games are much easier.

Let's hope Shauna can make Dayton women's bball as hated as UConn's! I don't think we will worry about attendance if that happens.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:12 PM
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Practices

Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
Rollo, people will watch UConn if they think the other team has a chance. Nobody other than UConn fans will tune in if they expect another 40 point beat down. If I think they are going to lose a particular game I might be watching

Gino spoke recently about their practices and how they practice like it is their last one, every play is important. It isn't just that they have great players, they maximize their capabilities to a large extent. If you get buy in from the players that you are always going to practice at 100% for every minute you can be a great team. That is the buy in you want from your team.

When you are shooting free throws you are focusing on them like it is the last shot to win a game. When you pass it to the post you are putting it to the right spot. When you pass it to a spot up shooter you always put the ball to their chest, not off to the side or at their knees, you box out on every single rebound, you square up on every single shot etc If you do this in practice the games are much easier.

Let's hope Shauna can make Dayton women's bball as hated as UConn's! I don't think we will worry about attendance if that happens.
UConn's practices are legendary....and any coach that wants to visit UConn to watch a practice is welcome...all they need do is ask. Jabir did...Greene should. UConn defeated UCLA in a Sweet 16 game.....a few months before the UCLA coach was at UConn sitting in on a practice.

In the Elite 8 game UConn worked over an Oregon team starting three freshmen. I don't know how many Priders (Avid) watched the interview of the Oregon coach, who said that Auriemma is "revered" by other coaches because of what he has done for the game and his willing, open-door policy to assist other coaches re elevating their programs.

Nothing is more important to Auriemma than elevating the level of women's basketball nationally. What impressed him so much about the UD Elite 8 game is that UD clearly was on a solid up-trend...and our reward, so to speak, was a three game series.

The likes of Stanford, Baylor, South Carolina, Maryland, Notre Dame and perhaps a few others, are way past the "up trend" level. They have arrived. And I'd bet every dollar I have that the women that coach those teams would love to cut Auriemma's nuts off as much as they would enjoy beating his team. Obviously, programs like that have "arrived" and their coaches don't need or want advice from Auriemma or open invites to attend his practices. But, as has been pointed out by others, there are no more than a dozen, or so, premier women's teams. That single issue is what Auriemma harps about most.....the need for many more programs to do what it takes to get better.

Many schools with top tier men's programs simply don't care about women's athletics. That provides an opportunity for a school like Dayton, in my opinion. We do care about women's programs and have singled out BB for excellence. The Flyers will never fill the Arena. But I do think it's possible to double average attendance to about 5000 if the team can consistently play the way the Hoover/Mallot team did. Five thousand for women's BB is big time attendance and a great atmosphere. To get there we've got to attract good players. It's possible, I think. Just opinion.
_______________
An afterthought re recruiting. The notion that "UConn gets all the good players" is simply wrong. The current 4th year class (seniors) has one somewhat better than average player. The current 3rd and 2nd year classes were very strong, each with two great players; the current 1st year class is quite weak, with only one player showing promise. Next year's incoming class has the HS player of the year and a good transfer. But there are thousands of high schools in the country...each year there is a large number of outstanding players...not like the men, of course, but enough to stock many good teams.

And the women's game has recruiting advantages. HS girls are not thinking about the NBA. Many absolutely insist on going to school relatively close to home for family reasons. They stay for four years. The Hoover/Mallot class shows it can be done at Dayton. I think it can. Go Flyers!

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Old 03-30-2017, 02:08 PM
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[QUOTE=Buckleyma;500579]Women's basketball team for Connecticut unloaded from their bus at a downtown hotel in Dallas Texas. I saw them as i am at the hotel. These are very tall girls. They are wearing white uniform tops that say, "UCON". I won't mention the name of the hotel for security reasons.

Well, i guess that security is not a priority here at the hotel. So, i correct myself. Now, i see that the hotel has posted a number of Connecticut Husky dog emblems all around the hotel. Also, they have placed a full wall sized poster of the Connecticut Women's team on the wall. The wall sized picture is near the door of the hotel.

Since i only see posters for the Connecticut team and not any other team; i am assumingthat no other team is staying at thus particular hotel in Dallas Texas.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:44 AM
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Down goes UConn! Wow what a finish by Miss St...Shortest player on the court hits a jumper at the buzzer for the win. Dumb play by UConn, score tied with 12 seconds to go, driving into a turnover rather than holding for the last shot. They haven't played a tight game in so long and perhaps weren't prepared for that game-ending situation.

Incidentally UConn beat Miss St in the Sweet 16 last year by 60! Hail State!
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:53 AM
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Stupid should hurt and it did tonight for Connecticut.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Stupid should hurt and it did tonight for Connecticut.
And lazy. Did they even try to play defense? I saw a bunch of girls backing off on defense daring MSU to shoot. Heck, even on drives they kept their distance. Weak side help...very little.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:19 AM
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Great, now we can stop with this ignorant forum, or we can start with the, Will UConn's Loss Hurt College Basketball?
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  #65  
Old 04-01-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Great, now we can stop with this ignorant forum, or we can start with the, Will UConn's Loss Hurt College Basketball?
Thanks for calling the forum ignorant. I simply posted an observation and comments made by the group you would think would be most likely to watch womens tournament games.

As a side note, conversation just now as I heard about Uconn losing-

Dad- "UConn lost last night"
Daughter- "too bad I did not care enough to watch it. Now the championship game might be fun to watch, can I invite some friends over?"
Dad- "Sure, can I watch it with you?"

Guess my daughter is ignorant just like me




Edited update- Just told my wife UConn lost, and she knows nothing of my post on here

Her reply, "so people will watch it now". Three ignorant people in this house I guess.

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Old 04-01-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post

Her reply, "so people will watch it now". Three ignorant people in this house I guess.
Make it 4.

What time should I come over and do you have enough Bud Light to satisfy my Royal thirst?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Make it 4.

What time should I come over and do you have enough Bud Light to satisfy my Royal thirst?
Come on over!

But The King really drinks beer that should be served to the paupers?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Come on over!

But The King really drinks beer that should be served to the paupers?
After 9+ months of recovery, the royal doctor's just cleared me to consume alcohol last week! In celebration, I had 2 Sapporo's with dinner at Thai9 last night. Is that beer worth of my Royal palette? Or should I stick with your favorite, PBR?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
After 9+ months of recovery, the royal doctor's just cleared me to consume alcohol last week! In celebration, I had 2 Sapporo's with dinner at Thai9 last night. Is that beer worth of my Royal palette? Or should I stick with your favorite, PBR?
Congrats! You hit my favorite restaurant!

PBR- Do you think I am ignorant or something? For the record, we serve only the finest in low carb beers at our double wide. Milwaukee's Best Light (in bottles when available)
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:11 AM
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Milwaukee's what?!

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Old 04-01-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Great, now we can stop with this ignorant forum, or we can start with the, Will UConn's Loss Hurt College Basketball?
Well I guess you stuck your foot in your mouth this time, ignorant to whom, you apparently. I will tell you what is really ignorant is to come on a thread like this one then complain about it. Don't like a thread you have the choice to read them or not.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Well I guess you stuck your foot in your mouth this time, ignorant to whom, you apparently. I will tell you what is really ignorant is to come on a thread like this one then complain about it. Don't like a thread you have the choice to read them or not.
And I guess if you did not like my thread, you should not have read it.

As they say, any publicity is good publicity. UConn had WBB constantly on the media for the streak. Now they are there for losing. After this it may be the streak starts over. WBB is not catching the media for much else other than UConn. So Avid can you point to where else it rivals the men's media attention.

Definition: Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often (incorrectly) used to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:03 PM
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Anyone else notice its all the east coast priders that defend Geno and UConn so much...think their might be some bias.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And I guess if you did not like my thread, you should not have read it.

As they say, any publicity is good publicity. UConn had WBB constantly on the media for the streak. Now they are there for losing. After this it may be the streak starts over. WBB is not catching the media for much else other than UConn. So Avid can you point to where else it rivals the men's media attention.

Definition: Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often (incorrectly) used to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts.
Two things, one you did not post a thread, but rather a post in a thread. Secondly did you post the definition so you could understand it better. Either way you used it incorrectly. Calling priders names and offending them is not smart. Don't think I need look up and post def of smart.

On message boards we have spelling experts, grammar experts and now definition experts.
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  #75  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:12 PM
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Don't forget Avid expert, who corrects all of us!

So I guess you can tell me specifically where I called someone a name?
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Don't forget Avid expert, who corrects all of us!

So I guess you can tell me specifically where I called someone a name?
Geesh if you call a thread ignorant then you are calling those in the thread ignorant for post.

If you want to get specific there are many on here that consider themselves experts, I just listed 3 categories where as you (who don't call people names) decided to out just me. Real class.

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Old 04-01-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Anyone else notice its all the east coast priders that defend Geno and UConn so much...think their might be some bias.
I still believe their success has been hurting interest in the women's tournament. But, if Geno is opening up his practice for others to emulate you can't place all of the blame on UConn. I remember reading long after UCLA run of terror that John Wooden thought it would be even easier to have the same success because there were more good players to choose from. I personally think he was wrong, more good players and more good coaches increases the chances of upsets

Part of the reason for UCLA's success was how they practiced, just as it is with uconn. But, that was also when there was no limit to the number of hours a coach could make his team practice.

I think that if all teams practiced with the same intensity as UConn their success would greatly increase.
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Old 04-01-2017, 04:48 PM
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None required...

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Anyone else notice its all the east coast priders that defend Geno and UConn so much...think their might be some bias.
I'm sure no one noticed, Avid. Geno and UConn don't need to be defended. And as pointed out by another Prider, what was noticed was the gracious, classy demeanor of both Auriemma and his players in defeat.....even more impressive than their unprecedented win streak.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I'm sure no one noticed, Avid. Geno and UConn don't need to be defended. And as pointed out by another Prider, what was noticed was the gracious, classy demeanor of both Auriemma and his players in defeat.....even more impressive than their unprecedented win streak.
Opening your practices is all well and good or even making a video available to all won't change much unless you get the players who will buy into it. And I don't mean mcdon9 all americans, just ordinary girls.

When Jabir took over he laid out practice sessions and what was ecpected. He ended up with 6 playerz. Others didn't want to put forth the effort. Geno to his credit not only gets Mcdonald type but those willing to put forth the effort.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And I guess if you did not like my thread, you should not have read it.

.
If you do not know the difference between starting a thread and putting a post in a thread, maybe the shoe might fit quite well when it comes to the ignorance debate.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:58 PM
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Elaborate, please.....

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
......When Jabir took over he laid out practice sessions and what was expected. He ended up with 6 players. Others didn't want to put forth the effort......
Avid, I know nothing about UD practices. Are you saying there is an issue (at UD) re practice intensity....i.e., girls on full scholarship balk and/or are unwilling to put forth the effort required to excel at the Div 1 level?

I would think that HS players good enough to get a free ride at a top mid-major program like Dayton's would have already demonstrated their commitment while in HS. Is that not so? Is this typical of female athletes?

On another topic, after JJ's sudden (and a bit strange) departure, and a rough start, Coach Greene made lemonade from lemons...to say the least,...turning in a very good season. What happened to JJ's recruiting class...how bad were the losses, etc....how does next year look?
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:19 PM
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Avid is speaking of Jabir's first year or maybe two. First of all the program was abysmal. There were players who did not like his expectations and they walked and/or he showed them the door.
IIRC we lost 2 of 3 recruits after he left. One was Jaelynn Penn, 2017 Gatorade Player of the Year in KY. I believe she chose us over Louisville and KY. She was let out of her LOI and signed immediately with Indiana. The other was Victoria Oglesby. ESPN has her listed as 2018 and a verbal to ODU. Samantha Breen from PA is keeping her commitment.

The timing of Jabir's departure probably helped us. It allowed for the 2016 freshmen to be enrolled, attending classes and having some of the summer to bond with their teammates. I think they are all happy to be Flyers.

Next year Brittany Ward will be eligible second semester. She is a transfer from Butler. Coming out of HS she was the 34th-ranked recruit in the nation and sixth at her position.
1498 points and 1000 rebounds in High school

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  #83  
Old 04-01-2017, 08:32 PM
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Re Jabir

This is off topic; but please indulge me.

JJ left suddenly just before the season started.....said he was leaving the best job he ever had. I assumed it was due to a health issue. But, didn't he turn up coaching elsewhere within a few months...in Europe, perhaps?

Does anyone know the real story? Thanks.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:59 PM
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Yes I was speaking of Jabir's first year, to the chagrin of many it seems his first year was made up of a lot of girls who were just happy to get a ship. He cleaned house whether it was him directly or girls not willing to put forth the effort.
This is where some of the problem arises from. Not all HS girls have that ambition. And it's not just bball. Colleen Williams expressed her displeasure with some soccer teammates who worked hard in HS then coasted in D1.
Hopefully with each passing year more and more female athletes emerged who have the passion and are willing to put in the time in gym etc to be successful.

I'll UConn and Geno credit for being to find those type athletes.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:05 PM
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Honest the real reason hasn't surfaced yet. Health I understand as he does have a heart fibulator but his other reason to spend more time with family fails the eye test when he surfaced in Denmark coaching a pro team, unless he took his family which is doubtful considering Angie works at UD.
Personally after an elite 8 run had had numerous injuries and an off year. Finding out Maddeline blais would bo out this year think it got to him, he put too much pressure on himself doubt anyone else did.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:09 PM
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I read where today's women's bball practices are intense which was not the case when Jabir took over. Think Shauna green has it well in hand too.
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