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  #201  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:13 AM
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Not likely,...

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Just another Swampy swing and miss?

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-b...tial-liability
The New York Times is waging war against Trump and has the resources to do so. No surprise there.

There is more than a small chance that the entire Trump enterprise is and has been a scam operation built and sustained for decades at the expense of every entity it ever dealt with...including the U.S. Government and its taxpayers.

And you know what? Most of the voters won't care one bit as long as the economy is strong and they have well paying jobs.

But, one never knows. As Yogi once said: "It's hard to make predictions...especially about the future".
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  #202  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Private payrolls rose by 230,000 jobs in September. This was way above the expectations and doom and gloom of the worker shortage, low wages' pessimists. It was the highest increase in seven months.

Dow with another record this morning.

Mike Pompei is again meeting with North Korea this weekend. Still no missiles being launched in many months.

Canada signs onto the trade agreement.

And it is only Wednesday morning.
Trust me, this will only cause the wacko leftists to go crazier since Trump has been so successful. I remember when these clowns said the economy would tank because of Trump. How many more times do they have to be proven wrong before we totally disregard anything they say?
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  #203  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:38 AM
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Rip roaring Trump economy per CNBC. Liberal heads exploding.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/priv...k-est-adp.html
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  #204  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:00 PM
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Has anyone seen the unemployment rate?? 3.7%

Has anyone seen any reporting of potential witness tampering regarding the Kavanaugh investigation?
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  #205  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:21 PM
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Highest Treasury rate in 7 years is tearing the market down.
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  #206  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:45 AM
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Tariffs

The only US car company to NOT take bailout money is bleeding due to the tariffs.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business...ost-company-1b
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  #207  
Old 10-10-2018, 02:58 PM
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Early voting in Ohio started today, so I voted today. Seemed fairly busy, which was surprising to me. There is usually almost nobody there.
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  #208  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Highest Treasury rate in 7 years is tearing the market down.
Which bonds does this include? I Bonds, E Bonds? Does it work retroactively for bonds someone already has? Does anybody know?
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  #209  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:47 AM
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Mich Flyer

Typically old bond rates do not change when the rate goes up or down. However old bond values change. i.e. worth more or less in dollars New bonds likely will be purchased using the 'new' rate, what ever that is.

I Bonds are inflation adjusted bonds and are sold at a fix component during 2 times of the year (May and Nov ... IIRC). The fixed rate is for 30 years. This fixed rate is set by the treasury. There is an inflation component set by the government during these 2 periods. The 'I' component is adjusted every 6 months. This component can go up or down (to zero). Your interest is calculated as a composite rate which includes both the fixed and inflation components. I think the fixed rate is based upon some treasury bonds (which ones I don't recall). But once you purchase the bond that rate is fixed and doesn't change. The inflation component can change either up or down based upon the CPI (again IIRC). During times of steady inflation the bond will see a steady increase in this I component. Hence the inflation protection is built into these I bonds. Any new I bonds you purchase (say like this coming NOV) could have a new fixed rate based upon this slow up-ward movement of the rates we see now.

And ladies and germs, that's my $0.02 cents worth.
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  #210  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:07 AM
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The market tumble is as normal based upon emotion based upon some facts.

Over the last few years the Fed has slowly increased interest rates. The 10 year rate over time is shown in this link.


https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=US10Y

A recent low point was early July 2016. It is now (Oct 11) higher than its been for a few years going back to 2012. The FED stated late last year they would increase FED rates 4 times this 2018. I think we have had 3 so far. It looks like we get 1 more for Christmas. The unemployment rate is at ridiculous LOW levels (well below the 'normal' full employment # economist use to use). Trade tariffs are in play.

(Note: treasury rates are not historically high. Historically meaning within this century.)

Hence, all these facts lead to the probability but not certainty that this all will play havoc with economic activity in a negative way. So we get sell offs like we just saw.

Incidentally, If anyone of you has followed historical activity on the stock market OCTOBER tends to be VERY UNKIND to stock holders. And so we see yet again it's October!
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  #211  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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Mich go to TreasuryDirect.gov for answers. E bonds have stopped earning interest but can be redeemed. E bonds stopped issuing in 1980. They were followed by EE bonds which can still be bought.
Jacks post was referring to 10 year treasury bonds which is different.
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  #212  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:14 PM
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Trump is not too happy with the Feds raising the interest rates. It has the effect of slowing the economic boom. The Fed and millionaires playing with the market can lead to sabotage.
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  #213  
Old 10-11-2018, 03:57 PM
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Fed Chairman Powell said, "We are a long way from neutral rates." So the market is not reacting to the small increase in rates. It is instead reacting to the future guess of more interest rate increases sooner.

It is now up to earnings and guidance of companies, as to where this selloff stops.

Of course a trade deal with China will Trump all of this.

As all experts say, the effect of the tax cuts kick in at about 12 months, so good news still to come.
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  #214  
Old 10-11-2018, 04:07 PM
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The Fed

has raised interest rates just a month prior to election day and effectively erased all of the growth in the past year. This was not permitted during the Obama administration. The "Swamp" has retaliated against the President to derail the image of his remarkable economic success.
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  #215  
Old 10-11-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
has raised interest rates just a month prior to election day and effectively erased all of the growth in the past year. This was not permitted during the Obama administration. The "Swamp" has retaliated against the President to derail the image of his remarkable economic success.
The Fed interest rate needed to be raised at some point. It is better that it was done under Trump with the economy as strong as it is than under Obama which would have been a disaster. I am not sure what has happened in the market can technically be called a correction yet but it was bound to happen sooner than later.
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  #216  
Old 10-11-2018, 05:31 PM
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Rates way too low!

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
The Fed interest rate needed to be raised at some point. It is better that it was done under Trump with the economy as strong as it is than under Obama which would have been a disaster. I am not sure what has happened in the market can technically be called a correction yet but it was bound to happen sooner than later.
Let the market react any way it wants. Rates still are way too low....favoring debtors at the expense of savers, while killing seniors.

I have a super-duper money market "plus" account at one of the nation's largest banks. Because my balance is above a certain level I get a 25% interest rate "boost" bringing my interest rate up to 0.06%...0.06%.....the bank's highest rate, but well below the rate of inflation.
This is nuts! The Feds plan to continue gradually increasing rates through 2019 makes perfect sense. And the time to do it is when the economy is strong, i.e., NOW.

And our loony President is howling that the Fed is crazy!

Last edited by UACFlyer; 10-11-2018 at 07:05 PM..
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  #217  
Old 10-11-2018, 05:44 PM
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Interest rates still historically low





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  #218  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Let the market react any way it wants. Rates still are way too low....favoring debtors at the expense of savers, while killing seniors.

I have a super-duper money market "plus" account at one of the nation's largest banks. Because my balance is above a certain level I get a 25% interest rate "boost" bringing my interest rate up to 0.06%...0.06%.....the bank's highest rate, but well below the rate of inflation.
This is nuts! The Feds plan to continue gradually increasing rates through 2019 makes perfect sense. And the time to do it is when the economy is strong, i.e., NOW.

And our loony President is howling that the Fed is crazy!

You might want to shop around. PNC bank offers 1.25 percent and more on
accounts over 25,000 dollars. Mutual fund money markets offer 2 percent plus.
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  #219  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Let the market react any way it wants. Rates still are way too low....favoring debtors at the expense of savers, while killing seniors.

I have a super-duper money market "plus" account at one of the nation's largest banks. Because my balance is above a certain level I get a 25% interest rate "boost" bringing my interest rate up to 0.06%...0.06%.....the bank's highest rate, but well below the rate of inflation.
This is nuts! The Feds plan to continue gradually increasing rates through 2019 makes perfect sense. And the time to do it is when the economy is strong, i.e., NOW.

And our loony President is howling that the Fed is crazy!
If you are still getting 0.06% that is crazy. You should be getting 1.5% minimum now. You can get as much as 2% from online banks.
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  #220  
Old 10-12-2018, 08:33 AM
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The Fed has kept rates too low(negative real rates actually) for too long. Stocks have been the prime beneficiary of this (along with Quantitative Easing). Now, it is quite likely that the stock markets which have been priced for perfection and (IMHO) got way ahead of itself, got spooked by recent Fed tightening of monetary policy, may still give up more ground.

Trump, in all likelihood, is castigating the Fed's recent rate increase and unwinding of QE positions as much for the timing of the move as opposed to the move itself, as it comes just before the mid-term elections. If it had been implemented earlier (say August) or delayed until late November, he probably would not have been so outspoken. Remember, Greenspan's tightening of monetary late in Bush Sr's first and only term, ushered in a slight recession just prior to the Presidential elections. Now, with higher rates in the offing heralding in a steeper yield curve this could impact consumer demand and small business expansion and thus have some impact on near-term economic growth. Couple this with China threatening to pull back from US Treasury auctions and rates could go higher than anticipated. This puts added pressure on striking an agreement with China on trade...one that bolsters it's negotiating position. So in that context, DJT's remarks were quite natural and should not have been unexpected, IMHO.

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  #221  
Old 10-12-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Let the market react any way it wants. Rates still are way too low....favoring debtors at the expense of savers, while killing seniors.
How is low interest killing seniors? An increasing market helps all seniors with 401k's and Rollovers. Please explain how higher rates, which also come with higher inflation helps seniors.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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Jack'72, abnormally low yield curves hurt seniors who are normally more risk averse in their retirement years, by reducing returns on bond /fixed income investments; negative real rates have been the order of the day for the past decade. The normalized rule of thumb for the yield on Treasury 10-year bonds had been inflation plus 3%. The Fed has kept that rate artificially low and it has hurt many retirees whose asset allocation models were more risk averse (60/40 stocks to bonds or 50/50) than younger investors.

BTW, higher rates do not just come with higher inflation...higher rates are in response to the risk of higher inflation and meant to put the breaks on it. Inflation saps purchasing power and is detrimental to those on fixed incomes and lower wage earners, so rate increases by the Fed along with a steeper yield curve are necessary to keep inflation under wraps. It can, along with tighter monetary policy, also have a negative effect on stocks by making margin debt more costly and providing alternative, safer investments more attractive (i.e. taking away the punch bowl.)

Last edited by Bat'71; 10-12-2018 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:12 AM
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Looks like the long-term average fed funds rate is 4.82%. Looks like the current fed funds rate is 2.25%.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/effec...ral_funds_rate


https://www.thebalance.com/current-f...-rates-3305694
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  #224  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
You might want to shop around. PNC bank offers 1.25 percent and more on
accounts over 25,000 dollars. Mutual fund money markets offer 2 percent plus.
Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
If you are still getting 0.06% that is crazy. You should be getting 1.5% minimum now. You can get as much as 2% from online banks.
Thanks guys, I'm aware of these things. I have cash in a money market fund at another bank and with a money market mutual fund, the latter paying 1.85%. The reason I do business with the bank paying 0.06% is because of several other connections with that bank that I do not want to change.

I am also aware of rates paid by on-line banks; but I refuse to conduct any financial transactions on-line.

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
The Fed has kept rates too low(negative real rates actually) for too long. Stocks have been the prime beneficiary of this (along with Quantitative Easing). Now, it is quite likely that the stock markets which have been priced for perfection and (IMHO) got way ahead of itself, got spooked by recent Fed tightening of monetary policy, may still give up more ground.

Trump, in all likelihood, is castigating the Fed's recent rate increase and unwinding of QE positions as much for the timing of the move as opposed to the move itself, as it comes just before the mid-term elections. If it had been implemented earlier (say August) or delayed until late November, he probably would not have been so outspoken. Remember, Greenspan's tightening of monetary late in Bush Sr's first and only term, ushered in a slight recession just prior to the Presidential elections. Now, with higher rates in the offing heralding in a steeper yield curve this could impact consumer demand and small business expansion and thus have some impact on near-term economic growth. Couple this with China threatening to pull back from US Treasury auctions and rates could go higher than anticipated. This puts added pressure on striking an agreement with China on trade...one that bolsters it's negotiating position. So in that context, DJT's remarks were quite natural and should not have been unexpected, IMHO.
Bat, wrong reasons for Trump's remarks, He said what he said because he's ignorant. "The Fed is crazy!" "The Fed is out of control!". Bone head.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:52 PM
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Seniors

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
How is low interest killing seniors? An increasing market helps all seniors with 401k's and Rollovers. Please explain how higher rates, which also come with higher inflation helps seniors.
An increasing market helps seniors that have 401(k)s and IRAs. But a very large percentage of seniors live primarily on Social Security income and from relatively meager interest-bearing savings. (Senior) posters in this forum are not typical of the senior population nationally. Many seniors have money in banks accounts.

Personally. I am fortunate to have a substantial 401(k). But I have always done my investing on my own outside that account. My 401(k) has always been invested in guaranteed investment contracts issued by insurance companies and held is a "stable value fund" available only in 401(k)s....a very popular choice among 401(k) owners. The interest rate paid in such an account is directly tied to interest rates. Such stable value funds have been walloped by low interest rates over the last several years. I will benefit greatly
by a return to normal for interest rates. Currently we're not yet close to "normal"....the President's ill-informed wailing notwithstanding.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
An increasing market helps seniors that have 401(k)s and IRAs. But a very large percentage of seniors live primarily on Social Security income and from relatively meager interest-bearing savings. (Senior) posters in this forum are not typical of the senior population nationally. Many seniors have money in banks accounts.

Personally. I am fortunate to have a substantial 401(k). But I have always done my investing on my own outside that account. My 401(k) has always been invested in guaranteed investment contracts issued by insurance companies and held is a "stable value fund" available only in 401(k)s....a very popular choice among 401(k) owners. The interest rate paid in such an account is directly tied to interest rates. Such stable value funds have been walloped by low interest rates over the last several years. I will benefit greatly
by a return to normal for interest rates. Currently we're not yet close to "normal"....the President's ill-informed wailing notwithstanding.
That is your personal choice. I, nor most seniors I know, have money in stable value funds. So let's agree to disagree, that rising rates are good for those who take your track, and bad for those who take mine, which is stock and bond funds.

Those who are keeping money in savings accounts have so little it is not material. If someone has only $50,000 in savings, each percentage point is only worth about $450 after tax.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Jack'72, abnormally low yield curves hurt seniors who are normally more risk averse in their retirement years, by reducing returns on bond /fixed income investments; negative real rates have been the order of the day for the past decade. The normalized rule of thumb for the yield on Treasury 10-year bonds had been inflation plus 3%. The Fed has kept that rate artificially low and it has hurt many retirees whose asset allocation models were more risk averse (60/40 stocks to bonds or 50/50) than younger investors.

BTW, higher rates do not just come with higher inflation...higher rates are in response to the risk of higher inflation and meant to put the breaks on it. Inflation saps purchasing power and is detrimental to those on fixed incomes and lower wage earners, so rate increases by the Fed along with a steeper yield curve are necessary to keep inflation under wraps. It can, along with tighter monetary policy, also have a negative effect on stocks by making margin debt more costly and providing alternative, safer investments more attractive (i.e. taking away the punch bowl.)
I agree with your bond assessment at higher interest, but for those of us who have bought in at lower interest bonds in the last 10 years, we are going to get screwed as rates rise.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:22 PM
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The problem with the Fed and setting rates is we have a Fed and it sets rates. True capitalism doesn't need a Fed. Let the market decide where lending terms should be. Put the risk where it belongs: the bank employees and shareholders, and the depositors. The Fed is the biggest moral hazard in our economy. It encourages uninformed people to do uninformed things at uninformed times. Encourages the same irresponsibility from the banks.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:53 PM
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No, UAC, Trump is not ignorant in making his remarks, nor is he the first President to castigate the Fed's tighter monetary policy. Just because you have a visceral dislike for the man, don't let it blind you to the validity of some of his pronouncements. Since rates have been so artificially low for so long, no one was pushing for looser monetary policy...it couldn't get much looser. Here's a little something to ponder before you start calling others ignorant;
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/dick...t-the-fed.html *

*BTW, the Fed facilitated the huge build up in the Federal deficit spending during the BHO spendthrift administration by keeping rates so artificially low and monetizing the debt through quantitative easing. As rates rise (as pointed out at the end of the article) the cost of servicing the Federal debt will explode. When you factor in the premium rates demanded on weaker credits, from state and municipal debt, the squeeze on state and local budgets will cause added pain.

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  #230  
Old 10-12-2018, 05:47 PM
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Broaden your thinking...

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
That is your personal choice. I, nor most seniors I know, have money in stable value funds. So let's agree to disagree, that rising rates are good for those who take your track, and bad for those who take mine, which is stock and bond funds.

Those who are keeping money in savings accounts have so little it is not material. If someone has only $50,000 in savings, each percentage point is only worth about $450 after tax.
Jack, my "track" is not that different than yours. I have a portfolio of stocks and mutual funds. And I have a stable value fund in a 401(k).

But you are mistaken re your dismissal of the little guy with only $50,000 in savings. There are many more of those guys than people like us Jack. And each 1% difference in a bank's interest rate matters greatly to those people. The difference between 1% and 4%, lets say, is $1500...those people pay little or no tax.

The median family income in some states is well below $50,000....in CT, the wealthiest state it's about $60,000. For retired seniors the figures are quite a bit less. To these people a $1500 a year difference is a big deal.

(By the way, my stable value fund is currently paying 3.85% )
______________

One more thing re "Is DJT right that interest rates are too high and should not rise...". Every rate mentioned by Priders in the preceding posts,...PNC's 1.25% rate on large deposits, 2% from on-line bank rates, 2% money market mutual fund rates,...
every rate example given is less than the current rate of inflation. To get to "normal" those rates should be one-to-two percentage points higher than the rate of inflation. And Trump is on the Fed's case for raising rates! Rates are way too low.

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Old 10-12-2018, 06:01 PM
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Thoughts

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
No, UAC, Trump is not ignorant in making his remarks, nor is he the first President to castigate the Fed's tighter monetary policy. Just because you have a visceral dislike for the man, don't let it blind you to the validity of some of his pronouncements. Since rates have been so artificially low for so long, no one was pushing for looser monetary policy...it couldn't get much looser. Here's a little something to ponder before you start calling others ignorant;
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/dick...t-the-fed.html *

*BTW, the Fed facilitated the huge build up in the Federal deficit spending during the BHO spendthrift administration by keeping rates so artificially low and monetizing the debt through quantitative easing. As rates rise (as pointed out at the end of the article) the cost of servicing the Federal debt will explode. When you factor in the premium rates demanded on weaker credits, from state and municipal debt, the squeeze on state and local budgets will cause added pain.
The financial crisis of 2008-2009 got us on the track of what you admit are "artificially low" interest rates. Absent the Feds actions at that time there would have been a financial calamity.

It has bee argued that the Fed held rates too low for too long. I agree with that. So, now that we have a strong economy a gradual to "normal" rates is sound policy. That will hurt investments and investors that took advantage of the low-rate abnormality. That can't be avoided. I think most agree that so long as the rate increase is gradual we'll be OK.

Other Presidents have clashed with the Fed without referring to the Fed as "crazy" and "out of control". This from a guy who throughout his business life lived on excessive, highly leveraged borrowing for ill-conceived ventures then, as his game plan, as they failed one after another, would declare bankruptcy, walk away leaving others holding the bag.

As rates rise interest on the Federal debt will rise greatly....we know that. Perhaps that's what it will take to reign in Federal spending, restructure senior entitlements, etc.

For sure, retaining "artificially" low rates will only ensure that the problem worsens.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:06 AM
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The zero rate policy that was initiated in 2008 was needed initially to stave off a total melt down in the markets and to keep major financial institutions from imploding. However, as mentioned, rates were held to artificially low levels for way too long, which allowed the spendthrift Congress and BHO, to darn near break the bank. We will be paying for this profligacy for years to come, but you can bet the ranch neither Obama nor Bernanke will get the blame. Just like Greenspan and the Democrats in Congress dodged responsibility for the housing bubble with their "Affordable Housing" drive , which led to"low doc" and "no doc" mortgage applications and rampant speculation in the housing market (aided and abetted by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac)


So now calling the Fed "crazy" for implementing a tighter monetary policy and draining cash reserves from the banking system right before a critical mid-term election is now beyond the pail? It's "Trump-speak" for Gawd's sake. Why do you take the man literally? Once again, UAC, you seem to place greater weight on style over substance. Yeah, sometimes Trump will make you wince when he opens his mouth, but compared to what he has accomplished and the message he's trying to convey nationwide, it's nothing really to get over wrought about IMHO.

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  #233  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:54 AM
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Two things...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
The zero rate policy that was initiated in 2008 was needed initially to stave off a total melt down in the markets and to keep major financial institutions from imploding. However, as mentioned, rates were held to artificially low levels for way too long, which allowed the spendthrift Congress and BHO, to darn near break the bank. We will be paying for this profligacy for years to come, but you can bet the ranch neither Obama nor Bernanke will get the blame. Just like Greenspan and the Democrats in Congress dodged responsibility for the housing bubble with their "Affordable Housing" drive , which led to"low doc" and "no doc" mortgage applications and rampant speculation in the housing market (aided and abetted by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac)


So now calling the Fed "crazy" for implementing a tighter monetary policy and draining cash reserves from the banking system right before a critical mid-term election is now beyond the pail? It's "Trump-speak" for Gawd's sake. Why do you take the man literally? Once again, UAC, you seem to place greater weight on style over substance. Yeah, sometimes Trump will make you wince when he opens his mouth, but compared to what he has accomplished and the message he's trying to convey nationwide, it's nothing really to get over wrought about IMHO.
Bat, I do not place "greater weight" on style over substance, But, Bat, ignoring 'Trump-speak" all the time is another extreme, We all have learned that words and style matter.

Re what Trump has accomplished: Plenty, but with deserved reservations. The President's approach to trade has no certain outcome...and threatens his economic successes.

As for the impact of rising interest rates on the Federal budget: More important than the share of Federal spending consumed by paying interest on the national debt is the fact that the debt is increasing by nearly $1 trillion (with a "T") annually at a time of a booming economy and record Federal revenues. When did you last hear the President comment about that? What plan to address that issue have you ever heard the President or his economic advisers discuss? Some Priders have opined that the President will tackle that issue next year. Yeah, right.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:31 AM
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UAC is right! Words and style do matter, and it is part of what makes Trump so successful. Better that UAC is criticizing style points and not substance, as we had to do with Obama. When the Trump critics say that stuff I think they are admitting that Trump is doing a great job getting things done. As they say in business, better to be respected than loved.

BTW for those keeping score, kudos to the President for more substance, getting the pastor freed from Turkey with no plane full of cash.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
... kudos to the President for more substance, getting the pastor freed from Turkey with no plane full of cash.
Or five terrorists.
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:23 PM
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Trump actually has a better favorability rating than Paul Ryan, McConnell, Pelosi, and Schumer. Wow.

For somebody that is seemingly the butt of every joke, he is not doing too badly.


Favorability Ratings: U.S. Political Leaders

Favorable Unfavorable Spread

Donald Trump 41.5 54.5 -13.0
Nancy Pelosi 27.8 52.5 -24.7
Paul Ryan 30.7 52.3 -21.6
Chuck Schumer 29.3 43.0 -13.7
Mitch McConnell 22.8 47.5 -24.7
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  #237  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:34 AM
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Elizabeth Warren to release DNA results: she’s Native American:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elizab...a-test-results
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:11 AM
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6 to 10 generations = somewhere between 1.56% and 0.098%. That doesn't meet the definition of anything other than 'mutt'...which is royally appropriate for her.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:19 AM
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I thought this was clever and worth reading. The NYT wrote 2 hypothetical, future postscripts, imagining that it was the day after the 2020 election.

One piece explained why Trump got reelected, one explained why he lost.

I thought the piece on Trump winning was more plausible.

Both pieces sort of capture the 30,000 foot overview of where we are now and where we are headed.




Trump and Pence vs. Elizabeth Warren and running mate Sherrod Brown, Trump wins.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/o...tion-2020.html





Trump and Pence vs. Warren and Eric Holder, Trump loses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/29/o...pgtype=Article
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Elizabeth Warren to release DNA results: she’s Native American:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elizab...a-test-results
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Total BS. She’s as much Native American as I am. Going back 10 generations? That’s ridiculous. She lied on her applications, period. https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/...rens-dna-test/
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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So now we're finding out that in lieu of actual native American genes, the scientist used Columbian, Peruvian and Mexican DNA to stand in for native American...but don't tell the stupid people this...it'll only be used to justify more chaos in Portland.
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  #242  
Old 10-15-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
So now we're finding out that in lieu of actual native American genes, the scientist used Columbian, Peruvian and Mexican DNA to stand in for native American...but don't tell the stupid people this...it'll only be used to justify more chaos in Portland.
So she is 1/1000th Peruvian? That is all that Swampy and Fake News CNN need for their fact-checking, and it explains her high cheekbones.

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Old 10-15-2018, 01:53 PM
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https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/...tive-american/
1/1024th Native American. Hilarious. I guess I should apply for a casino license.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:02 PM
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  #245  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:22 PM
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This might be the greatest self-own in political history. Her chances at the POTUS may have just died today.

Who else might be 1/1024 of something and then claim minority status in Law School Directories and identify as Native American with Penn and Harvard. As a white guy, there's a greater than 50% chance I have more African in me than Warren has Native American. Warren is potentially more white than the average caucasian by a factor of 2.

If you were 31/32 or something -- nevermind 1023/1024 of something, would you publicly shun the overwhelming preponderance for the sliver? How can you be 1/32 or 1/1024 of something and BE THAT, but you can have an XX chromosome pair and NOT be that.

Warren said her parents actually had to flee because of Cherokee backlash on her mother's side -- her mother is white and her death certificate says white.

Most Native American tribes keep "membership" lists for lack of a better word. She ain't on it. And 1/16th is usually the lowest cutoff to claim any half-way legitimate NA ancestry to get an official CDIB (Certificate Degree of Indian Blood) from the Dept of Interior. Many tribes require far more like 25% or 50% direct blood.

This is literally the funniest thing I have read in months. High cheekbones aren't enough honey.

That said, Trump did say he'd pay her a million dollars if she were NA. So he should cut her a check for $976.56 which is 1/1024th of a million and send it to her in buffalo head nickels and one honest Abe penny.

In the end, nobody really cares what Warren's ancestry is. That's not the point. She's a mutt like the rest of us. It was her leveraging of such infinitesimally small (almost untraceable) minority ancestry and using that as a weapon to further her traction that's despicable. It makes a mockery of those with legitimate NA ancestry who have suffered legitimate NA struggles.

Every single one of us is at least 1% of something other than what we identify with on our birth certificate. Even Pocahontas was not 100% Native American Indian -- there's no such thing. The NAs came from Canada, Mexico/Central America and the Bering Strait as East Asians, migrating south as nomadic hunter-gatherers. Sitting Bull didn't just grow from the soil like a tulip. At what point does it become absurd to play the infinite fraction game?
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  #246  
Old 10-15-2018, 03:29 PM
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Glad we focus on important things in this country lol.
In the mean time the USA budget deficit for fiscal year ended
2018 rose 17 percent to 779 billion dollars.
Increase in revenues of 14 billion swamped by 127 billion
rise in expenditures.
Back to the 24 and me ads now
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:51 PM
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She just continues to dig the hole deeper. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...proof-n2528599
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  #248  
Old 10-15-2018, 04:42 PM
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I am not an expert, but her being at most 1/64th or 1.6% Native American, seems pretty shaky.

And she could be as little as 1/1,024th NA, or 0.09766%.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliz...rican_heritage

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Old 10-15-2018, 04:44 PM
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That may be Swampys biggest swing and miss ever. And that is saying something!

Remember Rachel Dolezal? I bet she is more black than Warren is Native American!
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:45 PM
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Trump should have owned the $1M offer. Tell her to arrange a meeting with her tribe leader and he will present the check.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:47 PM
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Warren and Swampy look even sillier now than they did before.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:49 PM
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Cherokee Nation responds to Senator Warren, says DNA test 'useless to determine tribal citizenship'

"Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said in a press release.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/che...al-citizenship
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Elizabeth Warren to release DNA results: she’s Native American:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elizab...a-test-results
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The 1 / 1,024 of me that is democrat says this post, and anyone who reposts and believes this crap is a disgrace to the democratic party.

You need to ditch the donkey and start using the titanic as your party logo. At this rate you can soon replace it with the Dodo
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:10 AM
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Why?

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Warren and Swampy look even sillier now than they did before.
Why did she do it? It focuses attention on the silliness of the matter. Count on Trump to make her pay.
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:26 AM
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FWIW, humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, 90% with mice, 84% with dogs and 65% with birds.

In other words, Warren is more chicken than Cherokee.

FWIW II, I'm going to get my DNA tested and when it's proven that I'm 1/1,024th 'Kennedy', I'm headed to Martha's Vineyard next summer where I'll be hosting the inaugural UDPRIDE Regatta at my family's Estate! Clayton...Shocka...stay tuned...everyone's invited to 'my' house! BYOB...bring your own boat!
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  #256  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Why did she do it? It focuses attention on the silliness of the matter. Count on Trump to make her pay.
She gave Trump the greatest straight line in the history of politics.

I saw some video of Trump being asked about this DNA test by a reporter yesterday. Melania was standing in the background, and I could see her fighting back a smile as the question was asked. She knew Trump was going to unload on the silliness of 1/1000th native Mexican/Bolivian/Columbian claim. I'm sure he could riff on that subject for about 15 minutes of mockery over the stupidity of the whole subject. Is she really this desperate to play identity politics? It's like throwing him red meat. Someone could build an entire comedy routine over this.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/37149...ign=benshapiro

Even more embarrassing, a comprehensive study by geneticists estimated that the average European-American has 0.18% Native American DNA, which may be higher than Warren.

Warren's gamble of desperately trying to prove her Native American ancestry appears to have backfired as she was widely mocked online.

James Woods was quick to brand her as "Señorita Warren":
The average American might have more native American DNA than Warren. That is hilarious. Wouldn't it be great if Trump had more native American DNA than Warren? That would be comedy gold. He might have been right when he said he was more native American than Elizabeth Warren.

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Old 10-16-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
That may be Swampys biggest swing and miss ever. And that is saying something!

Remember Rachel Dolezal? I bet she is more black than Warren is Native American!
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Why did she do it? It focuses attention on the silliness of the matter. Count on Trump to make her pay.
She never thought she would get called out for it.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Why did she do it? It focuses attention on the silliness of the matter. Count on Trump to make her pay.
Because too many people like Warren - extreme left and right - live only in their own echo chambers where they all think alike. They never get any perspective on the real world. This is even more so for people like Warren who come out of academia.

Add to that the Boston Globe writer, Annie Linskey, who parroted the Warren press release - with bad math included - and called the results "strong evidence". One chance in a thousand is "strong evidence"? And these media folks still wonder why they are called out for "fake news". They have no clue.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:10 PM
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https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/...d-corner-baby/
If McCaskill wasn’t toast before this, she is now. What a fool. O’Keefe is amazing.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:31 PM
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https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/...ren-apologize/
This is great. The descendants of the real Pocahontas aren’t very happy with Fauxcahontas.
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