Four Year Players

[FlyingArrow]

Out of curiosity, I looked at which players played 4 years for the Flyers over the past 20 years or so, going back as far as 2001 (edit: added some more years). Here are the 4-year (or 5-year in the case of injuries) graduating seniors from each year. This only lists players who played for 4 years. Some players not listed played 3 out of 4 years due to an injury year (e.g. Andy Metzler and David Bradds):

1976: Leighton Moulton
1977:
1978: Erv Giddings, Terry Ross, Mike Brannen
1979: Jim Paxson, Mike Lee, Doug Harris
1980: Tim Pohlman, Jack Zimmerman
1981: Richard Montague
1982: Mike Kanieski, Mike Gorney, George Morrison, Sean McNally
1983: Mike Reichert, Kevin Conrad, Mike Byrd
1984: Roosevelt Chapman
1985: Larry Schellenberg, Ted Harris, Damon Goodwin
1986: Jeff Zern, Damon Goodwin, Rory Dahlinghaus, Jim Shields
1987: Don Hughes, Ed Young, Anthony Grant, Dan Christie
1988: Steve Smith
1989: Steve Pittman
1990: Troy McCracken, Bill Uhl, Noland Robinson, Anthony Corbitt, Negele Knight
1991: Sam Howard, Norm Grevey, Ken Branch
1992: Wes Coffee
1993:
1994: John Richter, Andrew Gaydosh, Alex Robertson, Derrick Dukes
1995: Chip Hare
1996: Chris Daniels, Marco Pikaar, Andy Meyer
1997: Maurice Beyina, Shawn Haughn
1998: Ryan Perryman
1999: Coby Turner
2000: Mark Ashman, Ted Fitz, Matt Cooper, Edwin Young
2001: Tony Stanley
2002: David Morris, Yuanta Holland
2003: Nate Green, Brooks Hall
2004: Keith Waleskowski, Sean Finn, Ramod Marshall
2005: Mark Jones
2006: Warren Williams, Logan White, Marques Bennett
2007: Monty Scott
2008: Jimmy Binnie, Brian Roberts
2009: Charles Little
2010: Kurt Huelsman, Marcus Johnson, London Warren
2011: Devin Searcy, Chris Wright
2012: Luke Fabrizius, Chris Johnson, Paul Williams
2013: Josh Benson
2014: Matt Kavanaugh, Devin Oliver
2015:
2016: Dyshawn Pierre
2017: Kendall Pollard, Scoochie Smith, Kyle Davis
2018: Darrell Davis
2019:
2020: Trey Landers, Ryan Mikesell
2021: Jalen Crutcher
2022:
2023:

26 from 1983 to 1992 (10 years)
19 from 1993 to 2002 (10 years)
21 from 2003 to 2012 (10 years)
11 from 2013 to 2022 (10 years)

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	London Warren LONDON WARREN 6-0 185lb Junior Raines, HS | Jacksonville FL Nicknamed the "Jacksonville Jet", London Warren is perhaps UD's quickest player baseline to baseline. Leader in steals defensively, he likes to push tempo on offense. Working on his shot and confidence at the charity stripe. 2007-08 | 4.3ppg 2.9rpg 2006-07 | 2.4ppg 1.7rpg

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Out of curiosity, I looked at which players played 4 years for the Flyers over the past 20 years or so, going back as far as 2001. Here are the 4-year (or 5-year in the case of injuries) graduating seniors from each year: 2001: Tony Stanley 2002: David Morris, Yuanta Holland 2003: Nate Green, Brooks Hall 2004: Keith Waleskowski, Sean Finn, Ramod Marshall 2005: Mark Jones 2006: Warren Williams, Logan White, Marques Bennett 2007: Monty Scott 2008: Jimmy Binnie, Brian Roberts 2009: Charles Little 2010: Kurt Huelsman, Marcus Johnson, London Warren 2011: Devin Searcy, Chris Wright 2012: Luke Fabrizius, Chris Johnson, Paul Williams 2013: Josh Benson 2014: Matt Kavanaugh, Devin Oliver 2015: 2016: Dyshawn Pierre 2017: Kendall Pollard, Scoochie Smith, Kyle Davis 2018: Darrell Davis 2019: 2020: Trey Landers, Ryan Mikesell 2021: Jalen Crutcher 2022: 21 from 2001 to 2011 (11 years) 14 from 2012 to 2022 (11 years)

You might as well put 2023 in there now as nobody's going to qualify after next year either.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	London Warren LONDON WARREN 6-0 185lb Junior Raines, HS | Jacksonville FL Nicknamed the "Jacksonville Jet", London Warren is perhaps UD's quickest player baseline to baseline. Leader in steals defensively, he likes to push tempo on offense. Working on his shot and confidence at the charity stripe. 2007-08 | 4.3ppg 2.9rpg 2006-07 | 2.4ppg 1.7rpg

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[springborofan]

The times they are a changing…

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by springborofan The times they are a changing…

and I do not like it one bit

[CvilleFlyer]

I don't like it either! You will not be able to tell the players without a program especially with NIL and the transfer portal.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer I don't like it either! You will not be able to tell the players without a program especially with NIL and the transfer portal.

Agreed. College basketball is at risk of following the lead of Major League Baseball, where the rich continue to get richer, and the vast majority of players have no loyalty to a team or a community.

I’ve had a saying for years: “Not all change is progress.” This seems appropriate in the world of college basketball today.
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[moville]

In Donoher's years, a helluva lotta guys graduated . . . just a guess.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[FlyingArrow]

Brian Roberts broke a long drought where we had no NBA player since Negele Knight. After Brian Roberts joined the team in 2004-05, the Flyers had a future NBA player on the roster every season from 2004-05 to 2019-20 except for the 2012-13 season. (With Jordan Sibert's 4-minute and 100% 3pt career checking the box for two of those seasons.)

[The Fly]

Didn’t Chris Wright get a few NBA minutes before Roberts? I thought Roberts had three seasons or so overseas before getting an NBA roster spot. I think Wright got his first minutes in 2011; Roberts in 2012.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by The Fly Didn’t Chris Wright get a few NBA minutes before Roberts? I thought Roberts had three seasons or so overseas before getting an NBA roster spot. I think Wright got his first minutes in 2011; Roberts in 2012.

Yup. I wrote about CW here during the strike-shortened 2011-2012 NBA season:

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20017
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[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by The Fly Didn’t Chris Wright get a few NBA minutes before Roberts? I thought Roberts had three seasons or so overseas before getting an NBA roster spot. I think Wright got his first minutes in 2011; Roberts in 2012.

Good pull. I was just talking about not having any future NBA players from 1990 till 2004.

[FlyingArrow]

Working a bit further back in time... I ran into John Richter ('94). The first 4-year player whose name I don't recognize. No 4-year players graduating in 1993. The 1990 team was very senior-heavy and looks to have had only two new recruits: Alex Robertson and Al Sicard. Al Sicard only played 3 years, and Alex Robertson got a medical redshirt and played a 5th year to join the 1994 class.

Back a bit further and 1989 is the first year I don't recognize any of the graduating seniors - Steve Pittman is the only one.

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Working a bit further back in time... I ran into John Richter ('94). The first 4-year player whose name I don't recognize. No 4-year players graduating in 1993. The 1990 team was very senior-heavy and looks to have had only two new recruits: Alex Robertson and Al Sicard. Al Sicard only played 3 years, and Alex Robertson got a medical redshirt and played a 5th year to join the 1994 class. Back a bit further and 1989 is the first year I don't recognize any of the graduating seniors - Steve Pittman is the only one.

John Richter was a Mechanical Engineering major. He was in several classes with me. Exceptionally smart.

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Working a bit further back in time... I ran into John Richter ('94). The first 4-year player whose name I don't recognize. No 4-year players graduating in 1993. The 1990 team was very senior-heavy and looks to have had only two new recruits: Alex Robertson and Al Sicard. Al Sicard only played 3 years, and Alex Robertson got a medical redshirt and played a 5th year to join the 1994 class. Back a bit further and 1989 is the first year I don't recognize any of the graduating seniors - Steve Pittman is the only one.

Pittman was from Beavercreek, IIRC, about 6-9, could shoot the 3.

[Flyers98]

I guess I am ambivalent to whether a kids stays 4 or leaves. I mean it is their life, schools including UD recruit over kids so the "loyalty" argument holds no water to me. Times ARE a changin' like it or not and the programs that can adapt the fastest will prevail.

I mean we all like to think the best about our program but it is about money for UD too, so the rich will get richer (or at least it will be easier for them), but at least some of that money will be going to the people who actually have the skills that make the game what it is.

[FlyingArrow]

Back in the 80s I have trouble telling if some players are walk-ons or not. Case in point: Jeff Tressler. Minutes played looks like a walk-on, but 6-11 guys aren't usually walk-ons. Same with Rory Dahlinghaus (6-8).

[FlyingArrow]

The list of four-year starters:

Ryan Perryman
Mark Ashman
Tony Stanley
Brooks Hall
Marcus Johnson
Kurt Huelsman
Dyshawn Pierre
Jalen Crutcher

Going back as far as 1994-95 (earliest year that https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/ has games-started stats). A player counts as a "starter" for a season if they are one of the 5 players who started the most games that season.

And then the list of 3-year starters (starting from 1994-95):

Coby Turner
Edwin Young
Ramod Marshall
Keith Waleskowski
Sean Finn
Mark Jones
Monty Scott
Brian Roberts
Chris Wright (when he played, he was starting his freshman year, but he was injured for most of it)
Chris Johnson
Kendall Pollard
Scoochie Smith
Kyle Davis
Ryan Mikesell
Trey Landers

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Back in the 80s I have trouble telling if some players are walk-ons or not. Case in point: Jeff Tressler. Minutes played looks like a walk-on, but 6-11 guys aren't usually walk-ons. Same with Rory Dahlinghaus (6-8).

Both were scholarship players. I was 2 years ahead of them both, and I remember the concern in the early 1980s about us losing 6’10” Mike Kanieski, 6’10” George Morrison, and 6’9” Mike Gorney in the Class of 1982. Enter 6’7” Ed Young, 6’8” Rory Dahlinghaus, 6’8” (?) Jim Shields, 6’9” Jeff Zern, and 6’11” Jeff Tressler. Granted, Morrison and Gorney were built like Defensive Tackles, and Young, Dahlinghaus, and Tressler were built like flagpoles, but we had height!
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[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I guess I am ambivalent to whether a kids stays 4 or leaves. I mean it is their life, schools including UD recruit over kids so the "loyalty" argument holds no water to me. Times ARE a changin' like it or not and the programs that can adapt the fastest will prevail. I mean we all like to think the best about our program but it is about money for UD too, so the rich will get richer (or at least it will be easier for them), but at least some of that money will be going to the people who actually have the skills that make the game what it is.

It’s all personal preference with no right or wrong answer. I prefer to see kids stick around so, as a fan, I can see a kid grow and develop, both as a player and as a person. Some get more excited about who the hotshot new freshman is every year. If kids aren’t sticking around, it means there are more new recruits every year to be excited about.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by springborofan It’s all personal preference with no right or wrong answer. I prefer to see kids stick around so, as a fan, I can see a kid grow and develop, both as a player and as a person. Some get more excited about who the hotshot new freshman is every year. If kids aren’t sticking around, it means there are more new recruits every year to be excited about.

Other things being equal, I'd prefer to see players stick around and develop. Or go to the NBA early - no objection to that either. Obviously, the players need to do what's best for them (and the team, too), but as a fan, seeing Devin Oliver or Trey Landers go from virtually zero playing time to core starter for a successful team is a lot more interesting than a steady diet of two-year transfers.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow The list of four-year starters: Ryan Perryman Mark Ashman Tony Stanley Brooks Hall Marcus Johnson Kurt Huelsman Dyshawn Pierre Jalen Crutcher Going back as far as 1994-95 (earliest year that https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/ has games-started stats). A player counts as a "starter" for a season if they are one of the 5 players who started the most games that season. And then the list of 3-year starters (starting from 1994-95): Coby Turner Edwin Young Ramod Marshall Keith Waleskowski Sean Finn Mark Jones Monty Scott Brian Roberts Chris Wright (when he played, he was starting his freshman year, but he was injured for most of it) Chris Johnson Kendall Pollard Scoochie Smith Kyle Davis Ryan Mikesell Trey Landers

Interesting. I was stunned to see Mikesell on that list. But looking it up, he's probably the only one to get enough games started to qualify and then lose his job to Xeyrius Williams in 2016-2017. Also, a lot of his starts were due to injuries to Pollard and Cunningham throughout that season.

But he's also the perfect example of how valuable it is keeping a player from start to finish. His experience, confidence, leadership and knowledge of the system was one of many keys to ranking 3rd in 2019-2020.

If someone had told me in 2016-2017 that Trey and Ryan would be starters on a 3rd ranked team, I would've told them they were insane.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow The list of four-year starters: . . . And then the list of 3-year starters (starting from 1994-95): . . .

Would be interesting to see how we compare to DIV I at large and the "elites".

[SeasonTicketFan]

I like to see four-year players, but I am more OK with players like Obi Toppin and Johnny Davis back in the day who elevated the program and did not stay for four years.


If I had my preferences, put more Obis and Johnnys on the court.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 If someone had told me in 2016-2017 that Trey and Ryan would be starters on a 3rd ranked team, I would've told them they were insane.

100% agree and to me is what I miss most about the reduced nbr of 4 year guys. It’s been great watching them grow and develop into that Jr and Sr year player both on an off the court.
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[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Both were scholarship players. I was 2 years ahead of them both, and I remember the concern in the early 1980s about us losing 6’10” Mike Kanieski, 6’10” George Morrison, and 6’9” Mike Gorney in the Class of 1982. Enter 6’7” Ed Young, 6’8” Rory Dahlinghaus, 6’8” (?) Jim Shields, 6’9” Jeff Zern, and 6’11” Jeff Tressler. Granted, Morrison and Gorney were built like Defensive Tackles, and Young, Dahlinghaus, and Tressler were built like flagpoles, but we had height! Posted via Mobile Device

Does that mean Jim Shields was also a scholarship player? If so, that appears to be 15 scholarship players in 1985-86. Were the scholarship limits higher back then?

Don Hughes
Dave Colbert
Jeff Zern
Rory Dahlinghaus
Steve Pittman
Jeff Tressler
Damon Goodwin
Jim Shields
Bill Crotty
Anthony Grant
Ed Young
Steve Smith
Negele Knight
Dan Christie
Eric Mathews

Or is someone above a walk-on? Eric Mathews maybe? I saw he started 2 games. Not a lot of PT but he did start 2 games. Or Bill Crotty? Not a lot of PT, but over his career a lot more than Dahlinghaus, Tressler, or Shields.

[FlyingArrow]

If this isn't a basketball-reference error, I may have just found Dayton's all time points-per-minute leader. Scott Gray from 1980-81. Played only one game... 5 minutes... 7 points. Keep that up for 35 minutes per game, and he's a 49ppg player!

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow The list of four-year starters: And then the list of 3-year starters (starting from 1994-95):

Before 1994-95 the data is spotty on how many games players started, so for 1993-94, let's change the definition to the 5 players with the most field goal attempts as an approximation of who the starters were.

The list of four-year "starters" based on that definition (class of 1982-97):
Mike Kanieski
Roosevelt Chapman
Negele Knight
Anthony Corbitt
Derrick Dukes
Chip Hare
Andy Meyer* - Andy Meyer was in the top 5 FGAs all 4 years, but wasn't actually starting games his junior and senior years.

And three-year "starters":
Kevin Conrad
Larry Schellenberg
Ed Young (who "started" 3 years but not his senior year)
Damon Goodwin
Anthony Grant
Noland Robinson ("started" freshman, junior, senior years)
Ray Springer (only there 3 years but "started" all 3)
Alex Robertson

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[OSU Flyer]

Did anyone besides Michael Harmon transfer out and Hoskins transfer in under Purnell?

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Did anyone besides Michael Harmon transfer out and Hoskins transfer in under Purnell?

Michael Harmon played so few minutes that I had him down as a walk-on.

Here are the other players from Purnell's era who didn't play all four years. Not sure for some which ones were transfers (in either direction) and which ones missed a year due to injury/eligibility.

Jeff Elder - 3 years (2 for O'Brien, 1 for Purnell)

Darnell Hahn - 3 years (1 for O'Brien, 2 for Purnell)

Rodney Horton - 3 years.

Jeffrey Brookins - 2 years.

Michael McCray - 2 years. Pretty sure he was a walk-on who started some games during Purnell's first year (no point guard on the roster).

Darnell Hoskins - 1 year transfer as you mentioned.

Stephen Bamigbola - 3 years.

Cain Doliboa - 3 years, transferred to Wright State

Josh Postorino - 3 years.

Sam Smith - 2 years

DJ Stelly - 2 years

Frank Iguodala - 2 years (1 for Purnell, 1 for Gregory)

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Does that mean Jim Shields was also a scholarship player? If so, that appears to be 15 scholarship players in 1985-86. Were the scholarship limits higher back then? Don Hughes Dave Colbert Jeff Zern Rory Dahlinghaus Steve Pittman Jeff Tressler Damon Goodwin Jim Shields Bill Crotty Anthony Grant Ed Young Steve Smith Negele Knight Dan Christie Eric Mathews Or is someone above a walk-on? Eric Mathews maybe? I saw he started 2 games. Not a lot of PT but he did start 2 games. Or Bill Crotty? Not a lot of PT, but over his career a lot more than Dahlinghaus, Tressler, or Shields.

Yes. Scholarships were reduced from 15 to 13 over a couple of years back in the early 1990s.

Also, regarding Michael McCray, I’m pretty sure he was one of JOB’s last scholarship recruits, who came in with Ryan Perryman but dropped out after 2 seasons.
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[UDGutter2]

Rodney Horton had the game of his life to lead Dayton to victory over Xavier, I believe in '96.

Postorino had a brain tumor. Made it back to start, but play very little, on his senior night.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Michael Harmon played so few minutes that I had him down as a walk-on. Here are the other players from Purnell's era who didn't play all four years. Not sure for some which ones were transfers (in either direction) and which ones missed a year due to injury/eligibility. Jeff Elder - 3 years (2 for O'Brien, 1 for Purnell) Darnell Hahn - 3 years (1 for O'Brien, 2 for Purnell) Rodney Horton - 3 years. Jeffrey Brookins - 2 years. Michael McCray - 2 years. Pretty sure he was a walk-on who started some games during Purnell's first year (no point guard on the roster). Darnell Hoskins - 1 year transfer as you mentioned. Stephen Bamigbola - 3 years. Cain Doliboa - 3 years, transferred to Wright State Josh Postorino - 3 years. Sam Smith - 2 years DJ Stelly - 2 years Frank Iguodala - 2 years (1 for Purnell, 1 for Gregory)

Stelley, Brookins and Iguodala were JUCO guys

Harmon I think some had hype as a recruit but maybe memory is fuzzy

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 Rodney Horton had the game of his life to lead Dayton to victory over Xavier, I believe in '96. Postorino had a brain tumor. Made it back to start, but play very little, on his senior night.

Maybe he was announced as a starter but scrubbed before the game started? He has no stats for his senior year.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Medford]

IIRC Cain Daliboa was at UD for 4 years. Redshirted his first year, then after the next 3 Purnell didn't want to renew his scholarship for his last year so he left for WSU to play with his brother for a season. Or something along those lines.


Josh did start that game, but only played a few minutes (perhaps even less than 1 IIRC). He couldn't even work out that year due to the brain tumor so obviously not in any kind of shape.

[OSU Flyer]

I feel like Bamigbola could have been a JUCO guy too

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Medford IIRC Cain Daliboa was at UD for 4 years. Redshirted his first year, then after the next 3 Purnell didn't want to renew his scholarship for his last year so he left for WSU to play with his brother for a season. Or something along those lines. Josh did start that game, but only played a few minutes (perhaps even less than 1 IIRC). He couldn't even work out that year due to the brain tumor so obviously not in any kind of shape.

That could make sense. If it's less than 30 seconds, I think that would register as 0 minutes, resulting in no stats for the season except for 1 game played/started. It would make sense, then, that he might not be listed at sports-reference. And there is, in fact, one "game started" unaccounted for among all the other players' stats.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Medford IIRC Cain Daliboa was at UD for 4 years. Redshirted his first year, then after the next 3 Purnell didn't want to renew his scholarship for his last year so he left for WSU to play with his brother for a season. Or something along those lines. Josh did start that game, but only played a few minutes (perhaps even less than 1 IIRC). He couldn't even work out that year due to the brain tumor so obviously not in any kind of shape.

There was a back story to him being forced out. Can't remember the details

[springborofan]

If my memory serves me, I think Michael McCray was a high level recruit for JOB. He just never really panned out—like many in that era.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer There was a back story to him being forced out. Can't remember the details

I believe his father was somewhat similar to Staten's father. Also, if I recall correctly he had to appeal to the NCAA for a fifth year and UD didn't think it would be approved (they probably hoped it wouldn't be approved). When it was approved UD decided four years with him was enough.

[Medford]

Didn't he have back issues? Now that I'm thinking of it more, that would make sense with the appeal for a medical redshirt season.

[FlyingArrow]

I worked my way back to the 70s, and it looks like 1972-73 was the first season they let freshmen play with varsity, but even then not really. Leighton Moulton, class of 1976, was Dayton's first 4-year varsity player, with a grand total of ONE field goal attempt as a freshman. Johnny Davis was set to be the second one (class of 1977) if he didn't opt for the NBA instead.

[FlyingArrow]

Only 3 times since 1970 did the Flyers have 100% changeover in the starting lineup. (*)

During the 1970-71 season: Tom Crosswhite, George Jackson, Ken May, Rex Gardecki, Al Bertke
The next season: John Bitter, JD Grigsby, Mike Sylvester, Donald Smith, Jack Kill

Gardecki and Bertke both came back the next season, but with a smaller role. Smith and Kill were higher usage the following season.

Four of the 2016-17 starters graduated (Pollard, Cooke, Scoochie, Kyle Davis). The one who didn't graduate, Ryan Mikesell, didn't play the following season, resulting in five new starters for the 2017-18 season: Cunningham, Trey, Jordan Davis, Crutcher, Darrell Davis.

Only one of the 2020-21 starters returned (Mustapha Amzil), but he didn't start in 2021-22. Jordy, Ibi, Crutcher, and Chatman didn't return, leading to 100% turnover in the starting lineup for 2021-22 (Camara, Holmes, Blakney, Malachi, Elvis).


* "Starter" as defined above. Since 1994-95, it's most games started. Before that, the 5 players with the most field goal attempts.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Only 3 times since did the Flyers have 100% changeover in the starting lineup. (*) During the 1970-71 season: Tom Crosswhite, George Jackson, Ken May, Rex Gardecki, Al Bertke The next season: John Bitter, JD Grigsby, Mike Sylvester, Donald Smith, Jack Kill Gardecki and Bertke both came back the next season, but with a smaller role. Smith and Kill were higher usage the following season. Four of the 2016-17 starters graduated (Pollard, Cooke, Scoochie, Kyle Davis). The one who didn't graduate, Ryan Mikesell, didn't play the following season, resulting in five new starters for the 2017-18 season: Cunningham, Trey, Jordan Davis, Crutcher, Darrell Davis. Only one of the 2020-21 starters returned (Mustapha Amzil), but he didn't start in 2021-22. Jordy, Ibi, Crutcher, and Chatman didn't return, leading to 100% turnover in the starting lineup for 2021-22 (Camara, Holmes, Blakney, Malachi, Elvis). * "Starter" as defined above. Since 1994-95, it's most games started. Before that, the 5 players with the most field goal attempts.

And... 2021-2022 is the only one of the 3 times it happened, where they bettered the previous season. That's why with this year's upcoming team, the sky is the limit.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Only 3 times since did the Flyers have 100% changeover in the starting lineup. (*) During the 1970-71 season: Tom Crosswhite, George Jackson, Ken May, Rex Gardecki, Al Bertke The next season: John Bitter, JD Grigsby, Mike Sylvester, Donald Smith, Jack Kill Gardecki and Bertke both came back the next season, but with a smaller role. Smith and Kill were higher usage the following season. Four of the 2016-17 starters graduated (Pollard, Cooke, Scoochie, Kyle Davis). The one who didn't graduate, Ryan Mikesell, didn't play the following season, resulting in five new starters for the 2017-18 season: Cunningham, Trey, Jordan Davis, Crutcher, Darrell Davis. Only one of the 2020-21 starters returned (Mustapha Amzil), but he didn't start in 2021-22. Jordy, Ibi, Crutcher, and Chatman didn't return, leading to 100% turnover in the starting lineup for 2021-22 (Camara, Holmes, Blakney, Malachi, Elvis). * "Starter" as defined above. Since 1994-95, it's most games started. Before that, the 5 players with the most field goal attempts.

You omitted one of the better players in 70-71 and 71-72, Pat Murnen. 6'5" off guard who shot little, but was a great defensive player. He started almost every game his junior and senior year except when he was hurt. Think poor man's Jim Paxton.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by jack72 You omitted one of the better players in 70-71 and 71-72, Pat Murnen. 6'5" off guard who shot little, but was a great defensive player. He started almost every game his junior and senior year except when he was hurt. Think poor man's Jim Paxton.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't have stats for actual games started or minutes played. I would rather use those to determine who the starters were. But if Murnen was a primary starter in both of those seasons, then it's only the 2016-17 and the 2021-22 teams that had 100% turnover on the starters.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer There was a back story to him being forced out. Can't remember the details

Daddy issues.