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  #801  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:25 PM
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It has been said on this board many times that the A10 is extremely unlikely to "drop" a school. I find it equally unlikely that they could "place" a school in a different conference (how would that even work?). I agree with you though, I wouldn't hesitate to drop SBU, LaS, and Fordham.
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  #802  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:13 PM
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What happens to C-USA if they lose 3+ schools? Might they look to be looking to expand north (MAC) or south (Sun Belt)?
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  #803  
Old 10-30-2011, 09:25 AM
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Temple, UMass, Army. If I were C-USA.

I can't help but believe the A10 will be affected once all is said and done.
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  #804  
Old 10-30-2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Temple, UMass, Army. If I were C-USA.

I can't help but believe the A10 will be affected once all is said and done.
Me too. Someone is going to end up wanting Temple and from what I'm reading it may be the Big East. Charlotte has a long term plan to upgrade football to D-IA and I suspect they'll be gone from the A-10 at some point in the coming decade (C-USA looks good for them too).

This probably isn't going to play out for UD like I was hoping it would.
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  #805  
Old 10-30-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
I can't believe the non-FB schools will be happy with CFU, SMU and Houston joining their ranks for all sports. When you add them to SHU, Rutgers, Providence, USF and (recently) DePaul, the RPI of the conference is going to tank. I can see why Rick Pitino at UofL wants to add Memphis and Temple, instead of some of these other schools, but it doesn't appear the FB schools want Memphis and 'Nova probably can't abide another Philly school. The BE really looks like a dysfunctional and jerry-built configuration of schools that have less and less in common; with this type of foundation it doesn't look like the BE will be long for this world. UConn, Louisville, Cinci and Rutgers better have a plan B, C and D ready for their FB programs if the ACC and Big XII don't ride to their collective rescue and the non-FB schools should be making plans for a separate program.
You are right on Bat, the marriage is over and no counselor can bring them back together. How do they split when neither group can kick out the other? A solution could be for one group to buy out the other. The football schools need to keep the Big East name in hope that the BCS would grant them a grace period to keep their AQ. The exit fees paid by the departing schools could be used to get the bb schools to leave.

Villanova and Georgetown would be the kingmakers in a new conference. A review of the average RPI for the past four years, would find that Seton Hall, St Johns, Providence, and DePaul would not come close to other schools that would be available. Take the best have and have a great conference.

Villanova
Georgetown
Butler
Xavier
Marquette
Dayton
VCU
Old Dominion
Rhode Island
George Mason
Richmond
St Louis

With four Virginia schools, some reshuffling may be needed. However, the ACC does just fine with four NC schools. I have also upgraded St Louis over Siena as I believe they will be a significant better in the long run.

Great basketball conference, great academics, and nine of the schools play football. If they could agree on the what level they would be playing, the rivalries would be so much better than those in the Pioneer League.
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  #806  
Old 10-30-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I think the A-10 needs to go offensive on this. If the Big East is talking about poaching one of our flagship schools (Temple), the A-10 needs to respond in kind--throw an offer out to Marquette, DePaul, & St Johns to join the A-10. Coupled with maneuvering to place Fordham & LaSalle in some other lesser tier eastern conference, you dramatically improve the look of the A-10. DePaul & Marquette give you pretty good penetration into the Chicago market and greatly expand the conference's footprint in the midwest. The A-10 can offer arguably as competitive a conference with good east coast & midwest coverage, without the football driven madness.
I like the thinking. There is NO way the a fourteen should be sitting on their (her) hands while all this is happening. And when Temples name is being bandied about publicly.
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  #807  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:52 PM
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I forgot about UMass. They were in the process of upgrading their football program to D-IA undoubtedly with the long-term goal of heading to the Big East. Regardless of what happens in the near term, I think that moving forward Dayton and the other D-IAAA schools in the conference can expect that at the very least Temple, Charlotte, and UMass are likely going to be looking for new conference affiliations.
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  #808  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:57 PM
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http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs....56338/33047734

Posted w/o comment
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  #809  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:39 PM
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The main problem, as I see it (unfortunately) with your proposal Cleveland, is how anyone could be sure that the A-10 would really stay together as a conference to make any planning worthwhile? Integrity, trust and honor have been the first casualties in this whole conference realignment mess and as a result they are very rare commodities indeed. What pact among conference members is worth the paper it's written on anymore? It is a quandary we find ourselves in that it isn't easy to resolve. The only way for schools like UD to constructively plan for the future would be (IMO) to partner with schools, like X, where we have similar academic and institutional philosophies (and something of a history) and form a voting block or a nucleus with other schools of similar ilk that we're already involved with (e.g. Duquesne, SLU and maybe Fordham if they commit to building a D-1 type arena on campus.) Maybe the way out of this mess, is to have a confab of the BE and A-10 private schools and see what type of arrangement can be worked out (perhaps a BB version of Vatican III.) Although I don't really like the idea of a "Catholic League", it may be the only way to get some sense of finality; even with this, though, some schools may be left holding the bag. I'm afraid a Pandora's Box has been opened here and it may be very taxing trying to get the lid back on. When you don't have "trust", much is lost.

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  #810  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:13 PM
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Posted without comment.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...rginia-bigeast
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  #811  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
I like the thinking. There is NO way the a fourteen should be sitting on their (her) hands while all this is happening. And when Temples name is being bandied about publicly.
It has been reported that the A-10 is looking at VCU and George Mason.
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  #812  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:33 PM
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Long live the Big Feast.

Finally! Someone decided to throw out the first sword. With this suit a lot of the ugliness that has been going on will go public. What a smorgasbord of reading this will be. Nasty letters to follow. Never has a conference gone up in flames like this.

Watch for the counter-suit. This is simply a negotiation.
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  #813  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
It has been reported that the A-10 is looking at VCU and George Mason.
Well good. It surprises me that the A10 is being proactive. Any conference that isn't exploring options right now just doesn't get it.
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  #814  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:14 PM
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Posted without comment. Except to say, if you extend a public invite it is understood that the invitee is going to say "Oui."

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/01/bi...f=twitter_feed
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  #815  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:01 AM
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I don't really understand Marinatto's comments in that article. Breaking a contract is a business decision, it isn't unlawful. He cannot be stupid enough to think they weren't going to do that right? Their only option is to file suit. A "contract is a contract." What the hell does that mean? He is a goon.
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  #816  
Old 11-01-2011, 05:44 AM
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ESPN had a headline that the big east might add six teams today

http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/01/bi...2_a5&eref=sihp
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  #817  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:27 AM
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WVU law suit is what I've been waiting for...not necessarily knowing from what camp it would come just gut feeling a suit or suits were inevitable...in my estimation this sets the table for final Big East break up. I have to believe someone with some smarts will come to the front and get the parties together and settle this out of the courtrooom so everyone can move forward. The 27 month timeframe is never going to stand in court because the league isn't what WVU signed up for...the league WVU will contend has ot done their job in protecting the football schools interest...I think it's in everyone's best interest to move forward sooner rather than later. But about the expected Big East announcement today...kids drawing in the backyard dirt could draw up a better plan...the 6 they plan to add will never make the Big East viable and the seeemingly trapped basketball schools are the ones that should file suit...
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  #818  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:40 AM
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Wink That's the way I see it

"should", and probably will.

The BE will soon replace Aggie jokes in the office:

"How many BE teams does it take to play a BE football game?
THREE.
One to host, and one to replace the defector at halftime!!"
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  #819  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:46 AM
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Gotta think schools like Seton Hall and Providence are THRILLED to now be traveling their non-revenue tennis, field hockey, archery, water polo, badminton, equestrian, and sailing teams 1,500 miles to Texas to play two institutions in a warm weather climate with all the built in advantages therein, no geographical or historical ties, and so forth.
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:48 AM
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It looks like all the dirty laundry that resulted in the schism between the BE FB and non-FB playing schools will get a full public hearing unless there is a quick settlement. It will be interesting to see if Syracuse and Pitt join WVa in it's lawsuit against the conference. IMO, the stub BE can add virtually any schools it wants at this point, but it's brand is now "tainted goods" and I doubt it can retain the remaining five schools if they get even a whiff of an offer from another BCS conference (not exactly a "news flash", I admit.) So how can it possible think it can retain it's AQ status in a year or two? Meanwhile, as noted earlier, the schools that may be asked to join as "full members" will dilute the BB side of the conference. This really looks like the BE is in an untenable situation.
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  #821  
Old 11-01-2011, 09:00 AM
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the wvu suit is a great move. from a practical viewpoint, it forces the big east to negotiate the 27 month rule. the big east can't let this get to court. though it's likely that a full hearing on the merits and any appeals would go beyond 27 months, the big east can't afford any adverse decisions even if later reversed on appeal. i can see a settlement where wvu pays the $2.5 million and is released to play in the sec next year. from a legal perspective, this is a huge move for wvu, louisville, cincinnati and connecticut. they all want out despite some public statements to the contrary. uc has publicly backed the big east, but wvu has blown the lid off that one. however, i doubt anyone is surprised. in fact, i'm sure that uc has either confirmed their interests to wvu's attorneys or wvu has witnesses that will back up their claims (or both). the "they signed a contract" defense is expected. that's always the defense. however, wvu raises serious issues with the big east's performance. it's far from frivolous to suggst that the big east has breached its fiduciary duty in doing very little to support the conference members. of course, there needs to be some showing that the members pressured the big east to be more aggressive. if the members sat on their hands for the last few years and failed to push for expansion, they could be in trouble. i think that, if the facts come out, we'll find out that the big east disregarded the members' concerns. from a conference growth perspective, the suit could be a nuclear bomb. teams that are being courted now KNOW that uc, uconn and louisville want to leave. that leaves only usf as a respectable football program. why would any school with ambitions of growing its football program join that conference. they knew that there was in-fighting, but this goes well beyond simple disagreements. the big east's days are numbered and it may just be knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door!
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:01 AM
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Oh, to be a fly in those meeting today. Rumors swirl that the B12 is still looking at Louisville, ND is contemplating jumping ship, UConn hasn't done much to hide its desire for a spot in the ACC, WVU has filed a lawsuit, then on top off all of that, the BCS is going to be restructured in some form or fashion in 2 seasons perhaps w/o any of the teams involved in today's meetings interest in mind.

How excited are the leaders of Providence, St John's and Marquette to take their soccer teams to Texas every season? How determined is 'Nova to jump to D1 football with some sort of BCS glory as the pie in the sky? How strong of a commitment will Louisville & UConn be willing to make? How much are Depaul & Seton Hall just along for the ride?

One has to wonder, with all these question marks, divergent agendas and behind the back manuevering, if it wouldn't be in the best interest of all to split up, at least in football? Would the most logical solution be for the Big East to drop football and have UConn, UC, SFU, etc.. football join up w/ the best football programs in C-USA & the MWC? of course the potential problem with that, if I was commish of the MWC or C-USA, I'd tell houston, Boise St, etc... play here for all sports or go pound sand, which would mean those programs would have to find homes elsewhere for basketball, soccer, field hockey, swimming, etc... Perhaps the WCC, A-10, Colonial, etc.. would be amicable to taking on those potential teams.

at any rate, that would have to be an entertaining meeting to sit in on, though you presume much of the back door negotiating has already taken place and this is mearly a formality. You would think that would be the case, wouldn't it?
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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the new uc ad, who less than coincidentally is from missouri, has said that the big east needs to establish trust to build the conference. trust? really? uconn, rutgers, uc and louisville are looking to leave. i guess that leaves usf to cement a relationship with itself in a football conference of 1. i just wish the acc and sec would just settle the issue. please, please...acc, take uconn and rutgers. sec, dear sec, invite uc and louisville. who else is really out there? the pac12 can take boise state and byu. the big10 can take nd. then, we'll be done with it. do it concurrently. no one's the bad guy. no one has to carry the guilt of bing the conference that buried the big east. please, just do it!
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:59 AM
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When all is said and done, it will be the Big East, and its dysfunctional structure (sorta like the Euro-zone), that will end up burying itself...no other entity needs to share the "blame".
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:10 PM
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I think this sports writer is uninformed, but, what the hey!

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...emphis-all-mix
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
When all is said and done, it will be the Big East, and its dysfunctional structure (sorta like the Euro-zone), that will end up burying itself...no other entity needs to share the "blame".
oddly enough listening to the latest from Greece this am I was thinking the exact same thing but the Greek PM takes the cake with his latest position, that is, unless we find out at some point in the future that he took the entire Greek treasury and shorted the market today!
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
the wvu suit is a great move. from a practical viewpoint, it forces the big east to negotiate the 27 month rule. the big east can't let this get to court. though it's likely that a full hearing on the merits and any appeals would go beyond 27 months, the big east can't afford any adverse decisions even if later reversed on appeal. i can see a settlement where wvu pays the $2.5 million and is released to play in the sec next year. from a legal perspective, this is a huge move for wvu, louisville, cincinnati and connecticut. they all want out despite some public statements to the contrary. uc has publicly backed the big east, but wvu has blown the lid off that one. however, i doubt anyone is surprised. in fact, i'm sure that uc has either confirmed their interests to wvu's attorneys or wvu has witnesses that will back up their claims (or both). the "they signed a contract" defense is expected. that's always the defense. however, wvu raises serious issues with the big east's performance. it's far from frivolous to suggst that the big east has breached its fiduciary duty in doing very little to support the conference members. of course, there needs to be some showing that the members pressured the big east to be more aggressive. if the members sat on their hands for the last few years and failed to push for expansion, they could be in trouble. i think that, if the facts come out, we'll find out that the big east disregarded the members' concerns. from a conference growth perspective, the suit could be a nuclear bomb. teams that are being courted now KNOW that uc, uconn and louisville want to leave. that leaves only usf as a respectable football program. why would any school with ambitions of growing its football program join that conference. they knew that there was in-fighting, but this goes well beyond simple disagreements. the big east's days are numbered and it may just be knock, knock, knocking on heaven's door!
I don't know if I'd go so far to call it a great move. It's a hilarious move, but it's far from great.

Here is the actual complaint.

http://www.wvmetronews.com/content/File/wvu_vs_be.pdf

For starters, it was filed in the circuit court of Monognolia County, West Virgina. A change of venue for the BE is a virtual slam dunk. If the BE decides to fight this, they could move it out of state court and into federal court rather easily. They could then file for dismissal on the grounds that WVU has no valid claim, and probably win.

Essentially, WVU is alledging that the BE failed to live up to it's obligation to WVU because the league now sucks, and points out how other schools have left the league. Since the BE failed in its obligation, WVU's obligation in regards to exit fees and the 27 month notice should be void.

The problem is that no one is leaving for another 27 months. The BE will maintain its current format for at least that long, so WVU's claim that the league has failed to live up to its agreement is invalid. The changes have yet to take effect and won't take effect until the the 27 month period has expired. Once it does expire, WVU is free to go, so they won't be effected by the changes.

At tthe end of the day, I very seriously doubt this sees a courtroom. WVU will agree to higher fees in exchange for being let go early.
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  #828  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
At tthe end of the day, I very seriously doubt this sees a courtroom. WVU will agree to higher fees in exchange for being let go early.
which is the point of the lawsuit in the first place. WVU is using it as an opportunity to increase their leverage. Will it work?

The BE is concerned about what 2014 is going to look like as that is when the BCS comes up for renegotiation. Hanging on to schools as long as they can may be in their best interest. WVU certainly realizes that paying extra money to get out ASAP is in their best interest.
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Old 11-01-2011, 02:55 PM
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http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs....56338/33072149

Invites are out, I'll assume the invites wouldn't go out unless the answer was definently going to be "yes"

Should be interesting. I thought the current makeup (prior to defections) was unstable due to the varying degrees of commitments by different members, this arrangement makes that theory look like 5 day old pound cake.
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Old 11-01-2011, 03:14 PM
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I feel sorry for John Marinatto, he has a mess on his hands. I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Idaho, who will end up getting stuck with a huge loss compliments of Boise State and its egomaniac AD/Coach/fans. I feel sorry for Syracuse and Pitt and West Virginia who will have to endure many "lame duck" games because the Big East says so. I feel sorry for the fans of SMU and Houston and any other school that gets sucked into this mess, because they'll eventually end up paying for the greed and lunacy of their school's leaders.

I feel sorry for the American taxpayer, too. Thank God Army had the sense to say "No" to the Big East's overtures. But Air Force and Navy? Hey, guess who gets to pay the exist fees when those schools leave the Big East? You guessed it. You and me, the American Taxpayer.

We can't take care of the wounded military coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan but we can waste millions paying Air Force's way out of the Mountain West (not to mention the exit fees when Air Force and Navy exit the Big East). I'll want to see an Admiral and a General or two get it in the neck when this things collapses.

Absurd!

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Old 11-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Bat'71 Bat'71 is offline
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If all the "invitees" accept and join the BE perhaps 'Cuse, Pitt and Wva will be able to leave by the end of the academic year and the lawsuit and waiting period will be moot. I doubt that any of the three "departees" will schedule any of the newcomers anyway, so this could provide a face-saving moment for the Conference, although what it would do for it's status is another matter. I wonder if any other shoes are likely to drop in the next week or two (Louisville, perhaps?) that could throw the whole discombobulated mess spinning out of control.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:34 PM
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As I see it...........

the league makes no difference.
UD just has to get better in mens hoops,
get in the March Madness annually,
win a few, get to sweet 16 now and then,
and the players will follow (see Butler)
and UD will have met it's goal. The non-revenue
sports will do just fine.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
If all the "invitees" accept and join the BE perhaps 'Cuse, Pitt and Wva will be able to leave by the end of the academic year and the lawsuit and waiting period will be moot. I doubt that any of the three "departees" will schedule any of the newcomers anyway, so this could provide a face-saving moment for the Conference, although what it would do for it's status is another matter. I wonder if any other shoes are likely to drop in the next week or two (Louisville, perhaps?) that could throw the whole discombobulated mess spinning out of control.
As current members of the Big East would it be possible for Syr, Pitt and WVU to use their veto power if such exists to deny the Big East a chance to add any schools unless it agrees to an immediate release without compensation of their commitment? That is since the BE is holding the defectors hostage why can not the defectors play the same game.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I don't know if I'd go so far to call it a great move. It's a hilarious move, but it's far from great.

Here is the actual complaint.

http://www.wvmetronews.com/content/File/wvu_vs_be.pdf

For starters, it was filed in the circuit court of Monognolia County, West Virgina. A change of venue for the BE is a virtual slam dunk. If the BE decides to fight this, they could move it out of state court and into federal court rather easily. They could then file for dismissal on the grounds that WVU has no valid claim, and probably win.

Essentially, WVU is alledging that the BE failed to live up to it's obligation to WVU because the league now sucks, and points out how other schools have left the league. Since the BE failed in its obligation, WVU's obligation in regards to exit fees and the 27 month notice should be void.

The problem is that no one is leaving for another 27 months. The BE will maintain its current format for at least that long, so WVU's claim that the league has failed to live up to its agreement is invalid. The changes have yet to take effect and won't take effect until the the 27 month period has expired. Once it does expire, WVU is free to go, so they won't be effected by the changes.

At tthe end of the day, I very seriously doubt this sees a courtroom. WVU will agree to higher fees in exchange for being let go early.
have to disagree. i think they took the step that is a logical legal progression. schools are held hostage by a 27 month, $5 million dollar exit fee. as a plaintiff's side attorney, i can see the case having some traction. of course, my defense side friends would claim it has no merit and is merely risk realized. that's not any different from the norm give me a bit of credit though. i read the complaint before i posted anything. i'll concede that it's creative, but i've been accused of being creative frequently...even up to the point that my clients have settled on very favorable terms.

i believe (not scrolling back now) that i said that i don't think it will make it to a courtroom. the risk to the big east is far too great. litigation, including appeals, would likely go well beyond 27 months. this is a settlement case. i agree with that.

change of venue? i believe that you're talking about having the case removed to federal court. you're almost certainly wrong on this point. first, there is no doubt that the big east had "minimum contacts." you seem to have had some exposure to the law, so you should know this. if not, start at pennoyer and go through to the burger king case. second, wvu has 11th amendment immunity. it can't be sued in federal court. this is actually an easy argument for wvu to prevail on. (funny side note, i had a client that had a personal jurisdiction issue. i won the issue for him, but i can tell you that i was a nervous nellie as his brother-in-law was a federal judge in dc). even if it went to federal court, the fourth circuit is considered to be liberal. i'm compelled to think that a leftward leaning bench would be favorable to a state university wanting contractual freedom. by remote comparison, i always prefer a liberal judge in a non-compete case (i have extensive experience in non-competes). liberal jurists tend to have a dim view of contractual strong arming and liquidated damages provisions. again, i doubt it makes it to a courtroom, but i'm not surprised that wvu was the school that pulled the trigger.

regarding their claims, i will just briefly add that their theories have a legal basis. they contracted to receive a good that was substantially better than the one that's being delivered. if i contract to have you roof my house and you do a crappy job, i'll sue and win. if i contract with you to be the cfo of my company and you, as you said, suck, i'll fire you. as long as i can demonstrate just cause, you likely will have no legal recourse (this is narrow and assumes that your contract had a "for cause" provision). here, the big east has a fiduciary duty. wvu has a legitimate claim that the big east breached its duty. creative, yes. frivolous, no.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:11 AM
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As all of us non lawyers know, this suit was filed for leverage - regardless of the merits of the case. Reading the filing, I actually thought it was rather weak and sparse on specifics. In any case, neither side ever expects it to hit a courtroom. The dirty laundry that would get aired from discovery is not something either side - but especially the BE conference - wants to be made public. It will come down to money - How much will it cost WVU to get out early? And you know Pitt and Syracuse are watching with much interest.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
As all of us non lawyers know, this suit was filed for leverage - regardless of the merits of the case. Reading the filing, I actually thought it was rather weak and sparse on specifics. In any case, neither side ever expects it to hit a courtroom. The dirty laundry that would get aired from discovery is not something either side - but especially the BE conference - wants to be made public. It will come down to money - How much will it cost WVU to get out early? And you know Pitt and Syracuse are watching with much interest.
i understand you thinking that the facts were weak and sparse. complaints are generally scant with the facts. the only thing that is necessary is to put the party being sued on notice of what the plaintiff's claims are (we call it notice pleading and was most recently revised in the twombley case). so, we generally say as little as possible. we don't want to be stuck with facts that we can't prove. however, we'll drop a bombshell to put the fear of god in the other side. here, the claim that louisville, cincinnati, uconn and rutgers are or have spoken with the big10, sec, acc and big12 is intended to be just that. it's a warning to the 6 schools getting invites. the big east does NOT want the details of those facts getting out. it tells all newcomers that the only football school wanting to stay is usf. boise state and air force are looking for stability. that ain't stable!

but, all the legalspeak aside, it's absolutely about leveraging positions. seriously, this case would likely take over 27 months to litigate including appeals. there are so many wrinkles that would extend the time frame. it's all about the big east's interest in keeping the dirty laundry in the closet and wvu being able to jump straight into the big12. you're spot on. the facts that would come out during discovery would take out any wind...any small breeze...in the big east's sails.

i would love to have been involved in the talks between pitt, syracuse and wvu. i would not be surprised if forum shopping was a big concern. i just have a hunch that the 3 schools discussed where the case would most likely survive any early motions. even if the acc is more willing to wait the 27 months, i'm sure that syracuse and pitt would rather jump ship earlier. i guess i'll find out how good my "in" at pitt is. i may be able to post a hint later.

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Old 11-02-2011, 10:50 AM
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Hyde Park,

I'm not sure if you are actually legally trained or just know a little bit, but I agree with most of your analysis. However, the complaint doesn't really state any legitimate claims under contract theory. Breached its fiduciary duty? That sounds like corporate law to me. I find it really hard to believe that the contract itself had any provisions about keeping "quality schools" in the league. In fact, I am almost certain it did not, simply based on how vague the complaint is. I don't think it is very likely that WVU could prevail under any contract theories. Perhaps equity, but man that would be messy.

The point is, this will NEVER see a court room. An agreement will be reached that suits everyone's best interests. Like I said earlier in this thread, breaching a contract is not unlawful or immoral or wrong (as laymen might assume), it is simply a business decision that happens every single day. The only reason parties ever go to trial is because one side is being unreasonable. I do not think this will end up happening in this case because WVU probably knows it wouldn't even survive summary judgment. Some middle ground will be reached, WVU paying more to leave sooner, most likely.

Whoops, I read your second post first. Clearly you know more than a "little bit" ha ha. Pennoyer and Burger King! You must have had a much better Civ Pro teacher than I did. I had to look up the 11th amendment stuff and its still confusing me. Would the university be treated as "the State of West Virginia?" That is pretty confusing to me. I know they are state-funded, but are they the State? Can you receive the immunity if the state is simply a party?

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Old 11-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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hawkoo, i'm up to date on the pennoyer to bk stuff because i've had to argue personal jurisdiction a few times. i've won each time, but it's certainly not sexy work. unfortunately, i've also had to tackle the 11th amendment issue as well. i believe that wvu would be viewed as an extension of the state as opposed to a municipality. i also doubt that they've waived immunity. of course, that's not always the case but this wouldn't seem to fit any of the exceptions. the biggest hurdle to removing this to federal court is that it is a state law claim. you can't sue a state agency in federal court if it's a state law claim. so, i don't think it gets removed to federal court. (by the way, as fate would have it, i just got off the phone with opposing counsel in another case that has personal jurisdiction issues - crap).

i also think that they have colorable arguments that the big east breached the agreement. i freely admit that i haven't read the big east constitution (apparently it's a constitution rather than bylaws). but, it is an illusory contract if the big east has no obligations. the agreement would fail for lack of consideration if they are not burdened with anything. i think that wvu just needs to be able to survive any early challenge. this isn't going to summary judgment. it won't get that far.

regardless, i agree that it won't see the court room. the big east publicly took a firm stance that it was holding teams to the 27 month exit period and the $5 million exit fee. wvu's challenge makes sense in light of that. when you can't get the other side to engage in negotiations, filing a complaint will often times force them to reconsder.
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:03 PM
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hawkoo part ii, each time the equity side comes to mind, i turn off that light immediately! but, i am curious whether an argument can be made that this acts as a non-competition agreement. it just hurts my head to even start the thought process. however, i will tell you that i've had success taking a proactive position by filing a complaint for a preliminary and permanent injunction preventing a company from seeking to enforce a non-compete. could wvu try something similar? ouch, it really hurts
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:24 PM
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I remember there being a lot of hurdles for non-compete clauses (such as the geography requirement) almost to the point where they are presumed to be unenforceable. I know there is a strong policy argument against them because of the potential harm to the consuming public. Do you think those clauses exist in University-Conference contracts? I just cannot see many judges considering it good public policy to tie down major educational institutions to non-compete clauses. I think they would be more inclined to tear them apart.

Thanks for explaining the immunity stuff. I guess I just didn't know that these "state schools" really are "arms" of the state, and as such would be considered as part of the state for 11th amendment purposes. It makes sense though now that I think about it, essentially these schools represent their state governments. That explains why all these senators are getting involved...
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:39 PM
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No merit...

.....comments by a local attorney familiar with such cases state that the WVU suit is entirely without merit.....and that, as someone said, is just to start negotiations with the Big East.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:49 PM
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it only has to have enough merit to get past any early challenges. you can certainly find an attorney that believes it's without merit. that's easy. as an attorney, i can assure you that i hear that frequently. i can also tell you that it's very rare that opposing counsel is correct. regardless, i think we all agree (and you don't have to be an attorney to see it) that this is going to be settled outside of court.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:10 PM
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Of course,....

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
it only has to have enough merit to get past any early challenges. you can certainly find an attorney that believes it's without merit. that's easy. as an attorney, i can assure you that i hear that frequently. i can also tell you that it's very rare that opposing counsel is correct. regardless, i think we all agree (and you don't have to be an attorney to see it) that this is going to be settled outside of court.
Hyde Park,.....but usually, indeed, almost always, it's the attorneys representing the party being sued that states that suit is without merit. When an attorney having nothing whatsoever to do with either side states that there is no basis for the suit..... and goes though each of WVU's claims explaining why it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to prove them....in my opinion, that's a different story entirely.

WVU wants out and has started the process of negotiation. If the BE adds schools that can play next year then it will be only too happy to compromise with WVU...and with SU and UP. Meanwhile, those three schools agreed to the exit terms of the BE and are stuck, whether they like it or not.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
have to disagree. i think they took the step that is a logical legal progression. schools are held hostage by a 27 month, $5 million dollar exit fee. as a plaintiff's side attorney, i can see the case having some traction. of course, my defense side friends would claim it has no merit and is merely risk realized. that's not any different from the norm give me a bit of credit though. i read the complaint before i posted anything. i'll concede that it's creative, but i've been accused of being creative frequently...even up to the point that my clients have settled on very favorable terms.

i believe (not scrolling back now) that i said that i don't think it will make it to a courtroom. the risk to the big east is far too great. litigation, including appeals, would likely go well beyond 27 months. this is a settlement case. i agree with that.

change of venue? i believe that you're talking about having the case removed to federal court. you're almost certainly wrong on this point. first, there is no doubt that the big east had "minimum contacts." you seem to have had some exposure to the law, so you should know this. if not, start at pennoyer and go through to the burger king case. second, wvu has 11th amendment immunity. it can't be sued in federal court. this is actually an easy argument for wvu to prevail on. (funny side note, i had a client that had a personal jurisdiction issue. i won the issue for him, but i can tell you that i was a nervous nellie as his brother-in-law was a federal judge in dc). even if it went to federal court, the fourth circuit is considered to be liberal. i'm compelled to think that a leftward leaning bench would be favorable to a state university wanting contractual freedom. by remote comparison, i always prefer a liberal judge in a non-compete case (i have extensive experience in non-competes). liberal jurists tend to have a dim view of contractual strong arming and liquidated damages provisions. again, i doubt it makes it to a courtroom, but i'm not surprised that wvu was the school that pulled the trigger.

regarding their claims, i will just briefly add that their theories have a legal basis. they contracted to receive a good that was substantially better than the one that's being delivered. if i contract to have you roof my house and you do a crappy job, i'll sue and win. if i contract with you to be the cfo of my company and you, as you said, suck, i'll fire you. as long as i can demonstrate just cause, you likely will have no legal recourse (this is narrow and assumes that your contract had a "for cause" provision). here, the big east has a fiduciary duty. wvu has a legitimate claim that the big east breached its duty. creative, yes. frivolous, no.
I've had some exposure to the law, but I don't practice it. I know enough to get by (by that I mean I know enough to have a general idea of what's going on most of the time), but I'm no legal professional. I'm sure I would miss things that are elementary to someone like yourself.

Having said that, i just don't see how WVU could even begin to substantiate their claims. The makeup of the conference is the same as it's been when WVU agreed to these terms, and will not change prior to them departing for the Big Twelve. It has yet to lose its BCS status, and even if it does, it probably won't happen until after WVU leaves. I just think that it is a big burden of proof to demonstrate with absoluteness that the Big East will not live up to its standards of being competitive enough throughout the next 27 months. The teams are still the same. the BCS bid is still in place. Even if they could prove their case, which I seriously doubt, like you said, it would take more than 27 months. So, what's the point??

Well, I know the point. It's leverage. As you said, it won't see a court room.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:52 PM
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Syracuse and Pitt

Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I've had some exposure to the law, but I don't practice it. I know enough to get by (by that I mean I know enough to have a general idea of what's going on most of the time), but I'm no legal professional. I'm sure I would miss things that are elementary to someone like yourself.

Having said that, i just don't see how WVU could even begin to substantiate their claims. The makeup of the conference is the same as it's been when WVU agreed to these terms, and will not change prior to them departing for the Big Twelve. It has yet to lose its BCS status, and even if it does, it probably won't happen until after WVU leaves. I just think that it is a big burden of proof to demonstrate with absoluteness that the Big East will not live up to its standards of being competitive enough throughout the next 27 months. The teams are still the same. the BCS bid is still in place. Even if they could prove their case, which I seriously doubt, like you said, it would take more than 27 months. So, what's the point??

Well, I know the point. It's leverage. As you said, it won't see a court room.
Seems to me that it doesn't do WVU's position any good that neither SU or UP have joined it in the suit or filed suits of there own. Indeed, Pitt has stated quite clearly that it will abide by the terms of exit from the Big East, which it and all other members agreed to.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:17 PM
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uac, attorneys certainly have different perspectives. i haven't taken a position on whether wvu would ultimately prevail. however, i do believe that wvu can survive any early challenges. regarding an attorney being somehow more correct because he's not involved, i can only say that we frequently take positions on pending litigation. we're not always right. we have to be careful as observers as we don't have all of the information. that doesn't mean i'm right or your friend is wrong. i guess my point is that there are attorneys who see even this case differently. generally, that indicates that there's enough to make it through the early rounds.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:23 PM
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uac, there's a significant difference between wvu's situation and that of syr and pitt. the big12 needs 10 teams, or it is in breach of their tv contract. missouri is presumed to be gone. they need wvu next year. my hunch is that wvu consulted with other big east members prior to filing. i think it's significant that it mentioned that uconn, rutgers, louisville and uc have had discussions with other conferences. regardless, it's not legally significant that syr and pitt did not join the suit. they'll resolve things "amicably."
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:37 PM
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And thanks...

... for today's legal lesson.

Actually, the dialogue is/was very informative and entertaining.
Thanks.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:28 PM
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Frankenstein just lurched to an upright position.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-join-big-east
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:04 PM
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As nutty as this is...

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Frankenstein just lurched to an upright position.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-join-big-east
.....from what I've read the TV money from the proposed BE FB conference will be a lot more than any of the mentioned teams is getting now. And, three of the 11 teams are currently ranked in the Top 25.

AQ status appears to be relatively secure if this pans out the way the BE hopes it will. A fly in the ointment would be one or more of the schools not accepting. Boise is key and it appears they are in....provided that another western school joins so that a BE West can be formed.

BE FB may live yet...and as a BCS league...who would have thunk it?
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:18 PM
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Wow, the BE payout to its FB members (if the numbers in the story bobber posted are accurate) is pretty puny, compared to the pay day schools in other BCS conferences reportedly receive. If the FB money available to schools who jump ship to the Big XII or ACC is so much better, why would Louisville, Cinci, Rutgers or UConn remain in the BE unless they have to stay? I don't know UAC, are the sport broadcasters so hard up for product that they'd pay significantly more for BE-brand football than they already offered in a deal that got shot down?
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:28 PM
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maybe, maybe not....

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post...-and-aq-status

I think in the end, when the BCS contract is written for 2014 and beyond it will be written in whatever way needed to either ensure that the Big East gets an autobid, or does not get an autobid.

I've long thought, and there have been several rumblings in the meantime, that under the next BCS deal any team will be allowed more than 2 BCS teams. I think the SEC, B10 & B12 have each been shut out of a third team more deserving than others several times over the last decade of BCS bowls. Along those lines, in order to make that happen while not ****ing off the "little guy" further, I thought they'd expand the clause that would allow for the non BCS conferences access to a BCS bowl slot. Currently it takes a top 4 finish to garuntee a BCS bowl bid for a non BCS school, wouldn't surprise me to see that expand a bit to a top 8 finish. However, now I'm wondering if the reconfigured Big East's autobid will be put on the chopping block to ensure the "big boys" still get their total allotment.

I also assume the Cotton Bowl will be brought into the fold in some form or fashion as well.

I wonder how the Big East honchos are taking to Boise's demand of anothe Western team? Its certainly a strange world we live in where a new team joining an established conference can dictate the terms of other teams joining with them.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:43 PM
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Speaking of conference TV money, I read that the terms of the passed upon ESPN deal gave something along the lines of 66% of the money to the basketball side (to be split 17 ways) and 33% of the money to the football side (to be split 9 ways). It will be interesting to see how it shakes out for their next deal. Is the football side stronger? Certainly more markets; they lost their greatest football TV assest in WVU, as well as upstate NY and Pittsburgh. Does Boise, UCF, Navy, AFA, Houston & SMU replace that value to ESPN? Clearly (at least to me) the TV revenue on the hoops side has been greatly reduced with the loss of Syracuse, Pitt & Hugg's personality.

The Big East all ready struggles to get solid time slots on Saturday on ESPN, they're mostly reduced to the ESPN2 evening time slot matched up against the Big ABC & ESPN saturday evening games and early regional coverage on the "Big East network". I can't imagine its getting any better with ESPN's deal w/ the SEC. With ESPN's role (allegedly) in Pitt & Syracuse to the ACC, will the Big East start losing its premier ESPN time slots to more ACC basketball? Could the ACC or SEC replace the Big East on Big Monday's 7:00 time slot, something the Big East has been a staple of since I can remember?

Not an easy time to be the AD at many of those Big East schools?
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:14 PM
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AF may be the key...

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Speaking of conference TV money, I read that the terms of the passed upon ESPN deal gave something along the lines of 66% of the money to the basketball side (to be split 17 ways) and 33% of the money to the football side (to be split 9 ways). It will be interesting to see how it shakes out for their next deal. Is the football side stronger? Certainly more markets; they lost their greatest football TV assest in WVU, as well as upstate NY and Pittsburgh. Does Boise, UCF, Navy, AFA, Houston & SMU replace that value to ESPN? Clearly (at least to me) the TV revenue on the hoops side has been greatly reduced with the loss of Syracuse, Pitt & Hugg's personality.

The Big East all ready struggles to get solid time slots on Saturday on ESPN, they're mostly reduced to the ESPN2 evening time slot matched up against the Big ABC & ESPN saturday evening games and early regional coverage on the "Big East network". I can't imagine its getting any better with ESPN's deal w/ the SEC. With ESPN's role (allegedly) in Pitt & Syracuse to the ACC, will the Big East start losing its premier ESPN time slots to more ACC basketball? Could the ACC or SEC replace the Big East on Big Monday's 7:00 time slot, something the Big East has been a staple of since I can remember?

Not an easy time to be the AD at many of those Big East schools?

Boise must have a BE western division (and a partner)....which would be comprised of Boise, SMU, Houston, Cincy (and/or UL) and Air Force. Only AF is uncertain. I don't know if the BE has a Plan B for a partner for Boise.

As for TV money,....everyone is saying that there is an insatiable appetite for college FB; and that ESPN badly wants to add BE FB under a new contract that will far more beneficial to BE FB members than anything they have had before.

Further, the 12 team FB league that the BE is proposing is considerably better than the "old" BE with SU, UP and WVU. Recall, at present three "new" BE schools are ranked in the Top 25.

And a "new" BE brings in Houston and Dallas....Orlando and Miami....great draws, Air Force and Navy.....and those hotbeds of college football, Storrs CT and New Brunswick NJ. What's not to love?

As for UC and UL prefering the Big 12 and UC and RU prefering the ACC....I think those schools all know that those "preferences" may never materialize or options like that may be years away. They could also be very near-term. No one knows or has a way of knowing. So the BE schools that would rather be elsewhere have an interest in cooperating to make a restructured BE as good as can be. Just as UD behaves re its A10 membership.

And for sure, there is plenty of FB potential in the likes of UH, SMU and UCF....those schools will open the financial floodgates if they wind up in a new BE.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:47 PM
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if appetites for that kind of football are insatiable, then people have lost me. The only team in this new BE scenario I would ever consider watching would be Boise St....and that's because they have had a sustained history of success. To me, his looks like the Horizon league of the BCS. And college football is not like the NFL, with free agency and a draft, or college basketball where inequities can realistically be addressed with an individual player or good, solid teamwork. Especially in an area of the country that does not prioritize local college football. Ironic that it is that very geography that contributes to the BE never being able to attain the level of play of some of the other conferences is the same georgrphy that gives people the delusion that they should be part of it.

And, as far as Boise St is concerned, it is a travesty that college football's system forces a school that has shown continued excellence to make this kind of decision as a desparate attempt to finally get their foot in the door.

And people wonder why i'm not a big college footbal fan.....
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:30 PM
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`91

Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
if appetites for that kind of football are insatiable, then people have lost me. The only team in this new BE scenario I would ever consider watching would be Boise St....and that's because they have had a sustained history of success. To me, his looks like the Horizon league of the BCS. And college football is not like the NFL, with free agency and a draft, or college basketball where inequities can realistically be addressed with an individual player or good, solid teamwork. Especially in an area of the country that does not prioritize local college football. Ironic that it is that very geography that contributes to the BE never being able to attain the level of play of some of the other conferences is the same georgrphy that gives people the delusion that they should be part of it.

And, as far as Boise St is concerned, it is a travesty that college football's system forces a school that has shown continued excellence to make this kind of decision as a desparate attempt to finally get their foot in the door.

And people wonder why i'm not a big college footbal fan.....
The way you have described the FB BE is exactly the way the Big East Catholics and the rest of college BB thinks of Dayton and the A10.

It is doubtful that the NE will ever think of college FB the way the SE and mid-west do. (That might not be a bad thing!) But, a "new" BE would be comprised of teams that are in the hot bed of college FB, i.e., two in Fla and two in TX....plus two in the mid-west and two in the mountain region. There would be only three or four of the 11/12 schools in the NE. Thinking about it that way, maybe that's just what the "BE" has needed all along.
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:38 PM
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I like Boise. I like what theyve done to screw up the BCS as the BCS continually attempts to keep them out of a #1-#2 matchup with skewed polls and re-worked computer programs.

That said, if Boise goes to the Big East in football, I hope they fall off the football planet. Boise is in a great position right now. They dont need the Big East. They are still making BCS games because they are finishing in the Top-8. When was the last time Boise didnt win 11 games?? They win 11 every season. They are near locks for BCS games as long as they win their one marquee non-con matchup a season -- even if the computers hate Boise.

Joining the Big East is like joining an IV drug user's club. Looking for the quick fix, with dire consequences. About the only thing the BE BCS bid offers that Boise doesnt already have is a possible national championship game if they go undefeated in a BCS league. Judging by what Ive seen however and the names of schools mentioned, the Big East aint gonna get any street cred in that regard. The voters will take a #3 team out of the SEC West over an undefeated Boise out of the Big East.

Im not convinced Boise's current league and schedule isnt nearly as good as the Big East anyway. East Carolina, Memphis, SMU, UCF, etc are not going to generate a tingle up too many voters' legs.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:39 PM
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The prolblem is that Boise doesn't get a full BCS share when they do make a BCS bowl.

Boise has been BCS eligible twice in the last three years (2008, 2010), and not been invited. Had they played in the Big East those two years, they almost certainly would have won the league and gone. They would have also gotten a full share for being there. As it stands now, they have to hope that a big opponent is willing to play them, beat them, and win the rest of their games. Half the time that isn't even enough.

Going to the Big East is a no-brainer for Boise, especially if they can join as a football only member. The door will be much more wide open for them than it is now. Perhaps they could lose a game, maybe to, and still have a great chance of playing in a BCS game.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
The prolblem is that Boise doesn't get a full BCS share when they do make a BCS bowl.

Boise has been BCS eligible twice in the last three years (2008, 2010), and not been invited. Had they played in the Big East those two years, they almost certainly would have won the league and gone. They would have also gotten a full share for being there. As it stands now, they have to hope that a big opponent is willing to play them, beat them, and win the rest of their games. Half the time that isn't even enough.

Going to the Big East is a no-brainer for Boise, especially if they can join as a football only member. The door will be much more wide open for them than it is now. Perhaps they could lose a game, maybe to, and still have a great chance of playing in a BCS game.
Not quite, the Big East would have gotten a full share for Boise being there as their BCS rep. How the Big East distributes those funds is another story, but i doubt Boise gets to keep the full share as part of the Big East.

However, you're right, just getting to a BCS game will theoretically be easier, assuming the Big East retains its automatic bid. They'll be able to with stand 1 or 2 losses as long as they win the conference, heck some seasons in the Big East they could have had 3-4 losses and still been the Big East champ.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Going to the Big East is a no-brainer for Boise, especially if they can join as a football only member. The door will be much more wide open for them than it is now. Perhaps they could lose a game, maybe two, and still have a great chance of playing in a BCS game.
Or maybe even four, like UConn did last year.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
The prolblem is that Boise doesn't get a full BCS share when they do make a BCS bowl.

Boise has been BCS eligible twice in the last three years (2008, 2010), and not been invited. Had they played in the Big East those two years, they almost certainly would have won the league and gone. They would have also gotten a full share for being there. As it stands now, they have to hope that a big opponent is willing to play them, beat them, and win the rest of their games. Half the time that isn't even enough.

Going to the Big East is a no-brainer for Boise, especially if they can join as a football only member. The door will be much more wide open for them than it is now. Perhaps they could lose a game, maybe to, and still have a great chance of playing in a BCS game.
Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Not quite, the Big East would have gotten a full share for Boise being there as their BCS rep. How the Big East distributes those funds is another story, but i doubt Boise gets to keep the full share as part of the Big East.

However, you're right, just getting to a BCS game will theoretically be easier, assuming the Big East retains its automatic bid. They'll be able to with stand 1 or 2 losses as long as they win the conference, heck some seasons in the Big East they could have had 3-4 losses and still been the Big East champ.

Guys, what's important to remember is that the administrators/lawyers et al at Boise are smart, knowledgeable people. The Big East opportunity is not something that has been suddenly sprung on them. They have had a long time to consider and evaluate all aspects of a move to the Big East. They would not make such a move if the benefits were just borderline or probable. Indeed, they have crunched the numbers every which way.....and, if they move to the Big East it will be because the move is overwhelmingly positive for the school.

They have yet to be invited....and have yet to accept an invitation. If/when they do it will be because they are sure the move is clearly in the best interests of the Boise State.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:30 PM
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I don't believe the BE has any choice but to invite Boise and hope they accept; heck, Boise may be able to write their own ticket into the BE. From what I understand the situation to be, the BE needs Boise's record and rankings over the past several years to have any hope of legitimately laying claim to remain an AQ Conference. The rump schools in the BE FB Conference have pretty weak resumes and just won't make the cut without Boise. As for Houston's success this year, that may help the BE's profile, but there is no reason to believe (at this point) that this is anything but an anomaly and UH could revert to FB mediocrity.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:44 PM
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Talking That took exactly 5 days and nights...

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Finally! Someone decided to throw out the first sword. With this suit a lot of the ugliness that has been going on will go public. What a smorgasbord of reading this will be. Nasty letters to follow. Never has a conference gone up in flames like this.

Watch for the counter-suit. This is simply a negotiation.

Kind of a record for a countersuit, but nonetheless here it is:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...waiting-period

Let the trash talk begin through the media, then we can get to the negotiaions.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Not quite, the Big East would have gotten a full share for Boise being there as their BCS rep. How the Big East distributes those funds is another story, but i doubt Boise gets to keep the full share as part of the Big East.

However, you're right, just getting to a BCS game will theoretically be easier, assuming the Big East retains its automatic bid. They'll be able to with stand 1 or 2 losses as long as they win the conference, heck some seasons in the Big East they could have had 3-4 losses and still been the Big East champ.
Okay, it's been awhile since I read Death to the BCS, but I believe Boise gets a smaller share and must split it 40+ ways. The Big East gets a full share and splits it eight ways.

Either way, they're better off in the Big East.

Speaking of the BE and of WVU, they are not doing a very good job of proving their case that the league is not competitive enough for them. They lost at home to Louisville today to drop to 2-2 in the conference. They did not win the conference last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. That doesn't exactly fall into the category of being undermatched and held back.

Last edited by xubrew; 11-05-2011 at 04:48 PM..
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:59 PM
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BE needs Boise, but,....

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
I don't believe the BE has any choice but to invite Boise and hope they accept; heck, Boise may be able to write their own ticket into the BE. From what I understand the situation to be, the BE needs Boise's record and rankings over the past several years to have any hope of legitimately laying claim to remain an AQ Conference. The rump schools in the BE FB Conference have pretty weak resumes and just won't make the cut without Boise. As for Houston's success this year, that may help the BE's profile, but there is no reason to believe (at this point) that this is anything but an anomaly and UH could revert to FB mediocrity.
..there are other matters, issues, considerations that you seem to be overlooking Bat.

AQ status is important...and the BE is assured of having it for two more seasons. But many think that the realignment saga will significantly alter the BCS and may even eliminate it altogether.

Second, not to imply that Cincinnatti and Louisville are Alabama and LSU...but recall what happened when they joined the Big East. Both schools started pouring money into their FB programs and are are far better today than they were in `05 when they joined. And a few million more each year from the "new" BE's next TV contract won't hurt.
In contrast, Houston, UCF and SMU are quite a bit better right now than either UC or UL were when they entered the BE. The new BE schools are joining because they feel they are elevating their programs. They will increase spending significantly and. the fact is, money means a lot. There is reason to think that UCF, SMU and UH will improve consistently as "new" BE members.

True, BSU is positioned to dictate terms to the BE. One is that BSU insists on formation of a BE "west", meaning, it seems, that addition of Air Force or other "western" school is needed for combination with SMU, UH, UC and UL.
That may be what is holding up the invtitations. Conferences don't invite schools until they are sure the invitation will be accepted. When BSU is invited it will be because they have told the BE they will accept.

I see no reason why the formal BE invitations have not gone out other than BSU's conditions have yet to be fully satisfied. All the other schools are chomping at the bit to join (except for the service academies which seem unsure.)
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:32 PM
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It still escapes me why anybody wants to join a conference that others are paying to get out of. The BCS AQ stuff will be totally revamped in the next revision - so that should not even be a consideration.
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
It still escapes me why anybody wants to join a conference that others are paying to get out of. The BCS AQ stuff will be totally revamped in the next revision - so that should not even be a consideration.
`69, the schools that want out of the BE want in to a better conference...the schools that want in to the BE want in to a better conference. All schools want the same thing...an upgrade.
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
`69, the schools that want out of the BE want in to a better conference...the schools that want in to the BE want in to a better conference. All schools want the same thing...an upgrade.

I just don't see the eventual BE as a better football conference than what many of those schools already have.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:38 PM
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In their last year in CUSA, Louisville's football team actually finished the season ranked #6. Their only loss was to #3 (at the time) Miami in a game that saw four lead changes in the fourth quarter. It's hard to believe now, but they were a pretty hot team, and were actually favored to win the league their first season, and some were talking about them being a dark horse for the national title game.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
In their last year in CUSA, Louisville's football team actually finished the season ranked #6. Their only loss was to #3 (at the time) Miami in a game that saw four lead changes in the fourth quarter. It's hard to believe now, but they were a pretty hot team, and were actually favored to win the league their first season, and some were talking about them being a dark horse for the national title game.
They also beat undefeated Boise State in their bowl game that year, I believe. I remember watching the Miami game, boy was that a great game to watch.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:07 AM
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Well, with news that Mizzu is officially leaving the Big XII for the SEC (http://stats.nypost.com/cbk/front.asp) can an invite to Louisville be far behind? If BYU takes a "pass" on joining the Big XII, it looks like Louisville would be the next logical choice for the Big XII. If this pans out, the relevancy of BE football will surely take a major hit even with the additions of Boise and the other invitees. If you add SMU, Houston and UCF as full members of the Conference, the BB side of the ledger will also take a step down in quality, so everyone involved is likely to be reaching for the Pepto.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....but recall what happened when they joined the Big East. Both schools started pouring money into their FB programs and are are far better today than they were in `05 when they joined.
UAC, I don't know where UC stood prior to 2005, but as of last year, they had one of the smallest budgets amongst BCS programs. Louisville on the other hands spends pretty big in athletics.

FWIW, I saw on the ESPN scroll this morning, that there is some sort of mention of San Diego State and the Big East (only caught part of it, so not sure where its coming from). Perhaps the pioneer league was ahead of its time having a team from San Diego playing conference games in ohio.

If Louisville leaves for the Big 12, don't know if those rumors are still out there or not, gotta feel bad for UC. They'd lose their 3 regional conference rivals and would spend a good chunk of their conference schedule playing in Cali, Idaho & Texas.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
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http://www.gazette.com/sports/names-...-thompson.html

Air Force may not be a sure thing to the Big East. I guess we'll see, seems the longer this stretches out, the more question marks start popping up. Need to call in Phineas & Ferb to see if this monster is half dead or half alive.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:00 PM
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With the loss of Mizzou, the Big Twelve's membership is still at ten. If they look to add Louisville, I would think they'd also want to add one other team. UC seems to make as much sense as anybody.

B12 NORTH: Louisville, UC, WVU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State,

B12 SOUTH: Texas, Texas Tech, Texas, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State



Or, don't add Louisville and just stay at ten teams.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:09 PM
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i've heard that uc is still in the big xii discussion. a couple of weeks ago, i was told by a media member that louisville and uc were soon to received big xii invites. they were calling it imminent. now, i know it didn't happen. but, this could have been some smoke from the fire. maybe...
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:11 PM
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Is anyone else confused about why none of the official invitees have accepted yet? I understand why Boise/Air Force/Navy are taking their time, but I assumed UCF/UH/SMU would have accepted instantly.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:11 PM
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Count me as a grumpy taxpayer (no, I am not a Tea Party member) but the Service academies have no business making a very risky jaunt into a football conference that is shaky at best. If the academies join the BE, I would hope there would be Congressional hearings on what the military is doing with our tax dollars.

Expensive hammers and toilet seats are one thing, but $30 million in exit fees is quite another matter.
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  #878  
Old 11-07-2011, 02:22 PM
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If UC and Louisville leave the Big East...

If they both leave, I don't see how the Big East survives as both a FB conference along with 7-8 non FB schools joining together to make a BB conference.

The BB conference would have lost Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Louisville, and UC. You are not replacing those schools with anything close to it in terms of competitive basketball.

I don't see how G-Town and Villanova (who seem to be the drivers on the non FB side) would accept trading out those schools for UCF, SMU, Houston, & Boise State & the academies. Wouldn't they be better off by going their own way and adding XU, and a few others that we've all bantered about?

From a FB perspective, it is not as bad and could see why the remaining FB schools (Rutgers, USF, and UConn) would want to align with these schools to give them the best chance at maintaining AQ status.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Is anyone else confused about why none of the official invitees have accepted yet? I understand why Boise/Air Force/Navy are taking their time, but I assumed UCF/UH/SMU would have accepted instantly.
I thought along the same lines, but it did take a month+ before aTm & Missouri were all but members of the SEC to become officially names future SEC partners, so it could take another couple of weeks for the legal behind the scene type stuff to work its way thru and for SMU, UCF & UH to be officially named future Big East partners.

Probably the biggest sticking point in all of this, aside from the Automatic qualifying spot in the BCS, is what will the TV contract look like? I imagine that could take several weeks to work out the details of the next TV deal with potential future partners. If they can't get a significant bump in their TV deal, that would give many pause.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
If they both leave, I don't see how the Big East survives as both a FB conference along with 7-8 non FB schools joining together to make a BB conference.

The BB conference would have lost Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, Louisville, and UC. You are not replacing those schools with anything close to it in terms of competitive basketball.

I don't see how G-Town and Villanova (who seem to be the drivers on the non FB side) would accept trading out those schools for UCF, SMU, Houston, & Boise State & the academies. Wouldn't they be better off by going their own way and adding XU, and a few others that we've all bantered about?

From a FB perspective, it is not as bad and could see why the remaining FB schools (Rutgers, USF, and UConn) would want to align with these schools to give them the best chance at maintaining AQ status.
I think the best move for the non-football schools is to not make a move at all. Just sit tight, collect all the exit fees, collect all the past tournament revenue, retain the Big East name and allow everyone else to be full members in basketball and do whatever it is they decide to do with football.

I don't entirely understand why the basketball schools would vote to include a team like SMU. UCF makes a little bit of sense. I could make a case for including them if I had to. However, if I were in a debate class, and the assignment was to argue in favor of SMU and convince the basketball schools to go along with it...I really got nothing. It's a weak team that plays in front of small crowds.

Having said that, it's only about 15th most illogical thing that league has done over the past several months.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:54 PM
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No invitations offered yet...

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I thought along the same lines, but it did take a month+ before aTm & Missouri were all but members of the SEC to become officially names future SEC partners, so it could take another couple of weeks for the legal behind the scene type stuff to work its way thru and for SMU, UCF & UH to be officially named future Big East partners.

Probably the biggest sticking point in all of this, aside from the Automatic qualifying spot in the BCS, is what will the TV contract look like? I imagine that could take several weeks to work out the details of the next TV deal with potential future partners. If they can't get a significant bump in their TV deal, that would give many pause.
As far as I know the BE has not issued formal invitations to any school. The BE has a plan for 11 FB schools. Whether or not a school accepts an invitation may depend on the viability of the plan. Thus, it seems reasonable that the BE will not issue invitations to the proposed schools until it has a firm indication from each one that the invitation will be accepted. I think that's the hold up.

While UCF, UH and SMU are anxious to join, Navy is cautious, the AF may be wavering...and Boise is waiting to see that all the pieces are in place to its liking. There is no reason to delay this except for all the pieces not being in place. I don't think they are.

Personally, I'd love to see a conference with all three service adademies as members. They may not be Top 10 or Top 25 schools; but they're special and have national interest.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
As far as I know the BE has not issued formal invitations to any school. The BE has a plan for 11 FB schools. Whether or not a school accepts an invitation may depend on the viability of the plan. Thus, it seems reasonable that the BE will not issue invitations to the proposed schools until it has a firm indication from each one that the invitation will be accepted. I think that's the hold up.

While UCF, UH and SMU are anxious to join, Navy is cautious, the AF may be wavering...and Boise is waiting to see that all the pieces are in place to its liking. There is no reason to delay this except for all the pieces not being in place. I don't think they are.

Personally, I'd love to see a conference with all three service adademies as members. They may not be Top 10 or Top 25 schools; but they're special and have national interest.
That makes sense, I always wondered why the basketball schools would willingly join themselves to UCF, SMU & Houston w/o the football side shoaring up, I guess that would be an indication of such.

I do have a question, why would you "love" to see a conference w/ the 3 service acadamies? They already play each other every season, don't they? They play for the Commander in Chief Trophy, I'm not sure why a conference affiliation would elevate that.

My other question, and I see it mentioned often in regards to the acadamies, how much of a true national following do they have? Sure there are a ton of retired/active service men that probably root for their branch when its convienent, but is it more of a secondary following, or a following when its convienant? Not exactly the same, but I'm a graduate of UD. I "support" the women's basketball program, I want the girls to do well, but I don't actually go out of my way to pay much attention. If I happen to catch them on TV, I may watch a few minutes, or I may pass on by to a game I have more interest in. If there is a headline in the paper that catches my eye, I'll be sure to read it.

I stumbled across a web page that had the ratings for all the bowl games the last 2 seasons (I believe it was the last 2) Navy was in 2 bowl games, Air Force was in 1 during the period covered. All 3 games received a low 2's rating. It wasn't the low mark of bowl ratings (0.7 was the low IIRC) but in a brief look, the 3 games basically rated out on the lower middle portion of bowl ratings. There was also a bunch of notes regarding big increases in the ratings/attendance of any bowl game. Neither of the Navy Bowl games, nor the Air Force bowl game got a special note of a huge ratings jump over the prior season, makes me think they pretty much did the number they always do for which ever game they were involved in any season.

Small sample size for sure, but at the end of the day, all any TV exec is going to care about is the actual number of eye balls any team brings to the screen. I question how many eye balls Navy, Air Force and Army actually generate. Army v Navy gets a unique time slot in college football, its typically up against little, if any football at the time, and is given ample time for all the pomp and circumstance. What kind of ratings does that draw? What kind of ratings would it draw if it was forced into the middle of a typical B10, SEC, etc.. weekend? What kind of ratings do the other games amongst these 3 teams get when they are up against a typical college football weekend?

I suspect, there are a lot of people that grew up in Ohio, Alabama, Pennsylvania, California, etc.. that enlisted into the Army, Navy or Air Force. When it comes time to watch and devote attention to college football, they devote their passion to Ohio State, Alabama, Penn State, USC, etc... and follow Navy, Army & Air Force from afar. Similar to my support for UD wome's basketball, its great when they win, but it doesn't break my weekend whent hey lose the way that UD basketball has done from time to time.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:39 PM
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I've asked myself for a while why the non-FBS schools, that have the power to block any lame additions just to salvage a pathetic football conference, would vote to accept SMU and UCF and Boise State, all of whom are virtually worthless from a basketball standpoint.

Why shouldn't they just sit back, collect exit fees, keep shares of NCAA tournament revenue that have been earned but not paid, keep the Big East name, keep the MSG tie-in, etc.

There is only one sensible answer: cash. The rumored Big East deal with ESPN is for football and basketball combined, and is probably weighted too heavily to the basketball side (2:1 ratio) as a payoff. I'm certain that the legacy members of the conference wanted any new members to require several years before they are fully vested in any TV revenue splits.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:54 PM
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Medford, I do see your point that the Service Academies may not provide compelling, must-see football, but why limit your remarks to them? BE football, by and large, can't draw flies. With the exception perhaps of WVa and Pitt that had a natural rivalry and a history of solid smash-mouth football (and Pitt/Syracuse years ago), not too many people care about the BE teams outside the respective schools. Even Louisville, which has had some success and has a rabid fan base, plays second fiddle in it's own state to UK. What compelling match-ups can the BE provide if all of the prospective invitees join the conference and the BE manages to hang onto the reluctant core of remaining FB schools...Cincinatti/SMU or UofL/UCF or Navy/USF or that famous rivalry Rutgers/UConn? These games will be relegated to Wednesday or Thursday evenings along with the MAC and C-USA games. I don't think Boise will be much better off in the BE than where it is in the MTW, but I guess time will tell. I also don't know why anyone thinks that suddenly UCF or SMU will dramatically improve their BB programs by simply being in the BE...USF still hasn't gained much traction in the BE, DePaul has slipped (and they actually a BB school) and Houston...who knows? The SEC pretty much dominates the Florida market (even Miami has difficulty recruiting) and the state of Texas is dominated by the Big XII. I really don't think this newly configured hodge-podge of a Conference is going to be very attractive for anybody.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:29 PM
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Bat, the schools involved...

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Medford, I do see your point that the Service Academies may not provide compelling, must-see football, but why limit your remarks to them? BE football, by and large, can't draw flies. With the exception perhaps of WVa and Pitt that had a natural rivalry and a history of solid smash-mouth football (and Pitt/Syracuse years ago), not too many people care about the BE teams outside the respective schools. Even Louisville, which has had some success and has a rabid fan base, plays second fiddle in it's own state to UK. What compelling match-ups can the BE provide if all of the prospective invitees join the conference and the BE manages to hang onto the reluctant core of remaining FB schools...Cincinatti/SMU or UofL/UCF or Navy/USF or that famous rivalry Rutgers/UConn? These games will be relegated to Wednesday or Thursday evenings along with the MAC and C-USA games. I don't think Boise will be much better off in the BE than where it is in the MTW, but I guess time will tell. I also don't know why anyone thinks that suddenly UCF or SMU will dramatically improve their BB programs by simply being in the BE...USF still hasn't gained much traction in the BE, DePaul has slipped (and they actually a BB school) and Houston...who knows? The SEC pretty much dominates the Florida market (even Miami has difficulty recruiting) and the state of Texas is dominated by the Big XII. I really don't think this newly configured hodge-podge of a Conference is going to be very attractive for anybody.

...in the proposed hodge-podge conference are convinced their new conference is going to have no trouble at all getting a TV contract that will pay each school millions more each year than they are now getting.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:15 PM
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Big East After BYU

Can Marinatto convince BYU that the Big East is better than independent status, or membership in the Big 12, or possibly even the PAC-10? Wow, I wonder what they are offering as incentives.......keep all of your bowl winnings, waive the exit fee, double dip of conference TV income?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...endenhall-says
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:25 PM
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BYU would do it...

.....that is, be enough to persuade the other "on the fence" schools to join a "new" Big East,.....in my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:09 AM
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I wonder how much of this conference realignment madness is driven by "ego" on the part of Conference and College Administrators and how much is motivated by financial reward at this point. Once you take into account the loss of academic integrity (the schools in question have very little in common), the geographic disparity and the lack of any competitive history among the proposed constituents, it would all seem to boil down to the bucks. But, what type of money are we actually talking about here, relative to what these schools already rake in and the cost of participation in a new conference? When you toss in the uncertainty of the BE FB retaining its AQ status two years hence and the possibility (though probably remote) of D-1 going to some form of playoff format, the "risk" factor for any type of capital budgeting has to rise...so what type of "return on investment" are these schools counting on in deciding whether or not to join the BE? It's starting to look more and more like ego or a false sense of institutional "pride"is driving this realignment bus now and not necessarily the promise of a big cash reward.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:51 AM
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They know things that we don't.

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
I wonder how much of this conference realignment madness is driven by "ego" on the part of Conference and College Administrators and how much is motivated by financial reward at this point. Once you take into account the loss of academic integrity (the schools in question have very little in common), the geographic disparity and the lack of any competitive history among the proposed constituents, it would all seem to boil down to the bucks. But, what type of money are we actually talking about here, relative to what these schools already rake in and the cost of participation in a new conference? When you toss in the uncertainty of the BE FB retaining its AQ status two years hence and the possibility (though probably remote) of D-1 going to some form of playoff format, the "risk" factor for any type of capital budgeting has to rise...so what type of "return on investment" are these schools counting on in deciding whether or not to join the BE? It's starting to look more and more like ego or a false sense of institutional "pride"is driving this realignment bus now and not necessarily the promise of a big cash reward.

Since humans are involved, no doubt some of what you suspect, Bat, is in play. But, there are other factors, financial in particular, that guys like us can't fully appreciate because we don't have the facts.

Watching BYU will be interesting. Here we have a school that after presumably careful study decided to make a significant step...FB independence. If, after only one year, BYU can be persuaded to abandon that decision...one that must have been contemplated for years,....and join the Big East, with all its uncertainty,.....that tells me that BYU sees things in BE membership that we simply can't understand because we don't have the facts.

BYU may well stay put. But if they join the Big East, surely you'll agree that is a very big step for BYU and a very significant development for the Big East. The resulting 12 FB team conference, assuming the service academies buy in, looks to have some very attractive features,....in my opinion.

On another matter entirely, I said that I'd love to see the three academies in the same conference. Someone questioned that since they play each other now. I was referring to the benefits of the other schools in the conference. I have attended games in which Army and Navy played UConn. Those are special games from a fans perspective....fans in attendence. The academies send hundreds of cadets, midshipmen, airmen, which swarm all over the area. It's a special atmosphere and the fans know it and appreciate it. And they also know that the kids on the field aren't planning on the NFL as their next gig.

It's special.....a privilege to play the academies.... just an opinion.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Medford, I do see your point that the Service Academies may not provide compelling, must-see football, but why limit your remarks to them?
I wasn't trying to knock the service acadamies, but I see it constantly mentioned how they have a "national" following. While their fan base is likely spread across the country fairly evenly, I question how strong that fan base is, ie how that fan base translates into eyeballs on TV. At the end of the day, that's all TV execs will care about. As I mentioned before, I think the service acadamy football fans are likely get 2nd and 3rd tier rooting interest amongst their fans. I know how I treat my 2nd & 3rd favorite teams in sports, they're great to watch when they fit my schedule, but they don't make me adjust my schedule the same way UD basketball, OSU football, the Bengals, the Bulls or the Reds have at different points in my life.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:02 PM
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BYU has a very good academic reputation and great football tradition. It is no secret that the Big 12 wants them. They have also been rumored as a prime PAC-10 target in the next round of conference expansion. Like Notre Dame they have a big following of subway alumni and their own TV network. There aren't too many "step ups" for them academically or athletically.

What could possibly entice them to join the Big East at this point in time?

It's a little like watching Boardwalk Empire. What, I wonder, does Nucky have up his sleeve?
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:40 PM
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Add San Diego State to the Mix

No. I am not kidding. Next expect the University of Phoenix (great stadium), LaSalle Extension University, and DeVry.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,5910780.story
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:50 PM
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Next round of expansion...

Boy if I were the Big12 I would really be trying to lock up a couple more teams before this hypothetical becomes a reality. This potential further expansion (no matter who starts it) leads me to believe that the BE will never survive this. I think I understand why the basketball schools are waiting though.

Has Villanova given up its FBS dreams?
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:54 PM
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Presented without comment.

http://www.gazette.com/sports/names-...-thompson.html
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Boy if I were the Big12 I would really be trying to lock up a couple more teams before this hypothetical becomes a reality. This potential further expansion (no matter who starts it) leads me to believe that the BE will never survive this. I think I understand why the basketball schools are waiting though.

Has Villanova given up its FBS dreams?
I think they have, although I have not seen anything official.
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
No. I am not kidding. Next expect the University of Phoenix (great stadium), LaSalle Extension University, and DeVry.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,5910780.story
Mo Egger had a comment on his blog friday while predicting the scores for the UD-San Diego game as well as other area schools this weekend.

something along the lines of the Pioneer league being ahead of its time having a school in San Diego making a conference road trip in November to take on a school in Ohio.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:38 PM
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Well, after viewing bobber's links, the Big East looks more and more like the Big Least when it comes to football. If they do indeed invite San Diego State to pacify Boise State, will they change their name to the Big USA (or perhaps the Big Transcontinental) and will anybody care? If ESPN offers this amalgamation of FB misfits a contract that exceeds that of the MAC, I'd like to get a pack of whatever it is they're smokin' up there in Bristol.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Boy if I were the Big12 I would really be trying to lock up a couple more teams before this hypothetical becomes a reality.
Agree. I don't know why the Big 12 would stop at 10 now with all that is going on. They could lose another team to the SEC and fall below 10 again. I don't know why they wouldn't go to 12 now before some of the teams they might want (BYU, Boise?) go to the Big East or elsewhere - or just take UC and Louisville. They might be assuming that UC and Louisville will always be available if they want to expand in the future.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:20 PM
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Probably right....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Agree. I don't know why the Big 12 would stop at 10 now with all that is going on. They could lose another team to the SEC and fall below 10 again. I don't know why they wouldn't go to 12 now before some of the teams they might want (BYU, Boise?) go to the Big East or elsewhere - or just take UC and Louisville. They might be assuming that UC and Louisville will always be available if they want to expand in the future.

....that the Big 12 may feel sure that UC and UL will always be available to them....just as the ACC probably feels that Rutgers and UConn will always be available.

Most likely, that's a safe bet for the Big 12 and ACC....but one never knows.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, after viewing bobber's links, the Big East looks more and more like the Big Least when it comes to football. If they do indeed invite San Diego State to pacify Boise State, will they change their name to the Big USA (or perhaps the Big Transcontinental) and will anybody care? If ESPN offers this amalgamation of FB misfits a contract that exceeds that of the MAC, I'd like to get a pack of whatever it is they're smokin' up there in Bristol.
I suggested a few weeks ago that the Big East be renamed the Really Big East
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