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  #601  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
My post was directed at the possibility that the c7 are still debating on who they are going to invite, but I agree with your post, it is in everyone's best interests to get this over with ASAP.

So, if the c7 know who they are going to invite, then what's the holdup?

I say it is primarily about money. Splitting the 1 year revenue between fewer teams will prop up those programs. Secondly it is about recruiting. All the buz with the new Basketball focused league will create a recruiting advantage over those who might be added later. The C7 & whomever they add their first year will have a better pick of recruits than the ones entering down the road.

UD has to stay within itself and continue to recruit the type of players that will excel at this level. If they try to move up to the C7/New Big East before they are members it will be a disaster. Those recruits will look at UD, but ultimately move to a school already in.
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  #602  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:45 AM
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This jersey guy site is suggesting that the additional teams regarding expansion are still to be discussed with slu, ud, and Richmond the leading candidates. Three players. Two chairs. Who will be left standing when the music stops?

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5608#more-5608

The thing I can't figure out is how creighton became the number 3 team to add along with butler and x in year 1? When this whole thing started I thought they had an outside shot just due to geography. Now they are sitting pretty.
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  #603  
Old 03-09-2013, 04:33 AM
BRob2Perryman3 BRob2Perryman3 is offline
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Hey Rollo,

Since i have joined this site, my chest has gone to 54" and my biceps to 24"

All ive done is eat hot pockets and drink mt. dew.

Ive lifted no weights

I am in tip top shape from READING your posts
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  #604  
Old 03-09-2013, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
This jersey guy site is suggesting that the additional teams regarding expansion are still to be discussed with slu, ud, and Richmond the leading candidates. Three players. Two chairs. Who will be left standing when the music stops?

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5608#more-5608

The thing I can't figure out is how creighton became the number 3 team to add along with butler and x in year 1? When this whole thing started I thought they had an outside shot just due to geography. Now they are sitting pretty.
Besides Creighton I'm still trying to figure out how Richmond got into the mix except for maybe geography, its not about attendance, facilities, tradition or eyes to tv sets we kick tail there

Then again there are a lot of things I'm trying to figure out, Leonard Cohen, Honey Boo Boo, KPop amongst other things so I'll add it to the list
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  #605  
Old 03-09-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Hey Rollo,

Since i have joined this site, my chest has gone to 54" and my biceps to 24"

All ive done is eat hot pockets and drink mt. dew.

Ive lifted no weights

I am in tip top shape from READING your posts
Maybe a new name is in order perhaps "Rollo Jr." or "Little Rollo" or maybe even dare we say it "Biggerer Rollo"
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  #606  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:26 AM
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Completely different spin in Connecticut...

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ut-America-12-

How would you like to be a UC fan right about now?
Nothing remotely like this in the CT media....approach is along the lines, "You play with the hand you are dealt, make the best of it, try as hard as you can to improve.

Now, there is no doubt that UConn would jump to the ACC in a heart beat. But, that doesn't mean UC won't give a 110% effort where they are....and the CT media seems to me to be quite understanding and responsible in its reporting of the circumstances. Certainly no, "the sky is falling, we're doomed".

Additionally, respect is being shown as regards discussion of the new schools that UC will be competing against.
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  #607  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
This jersey guy site is suggesting that the additional teams regarding expansion are still to be discussed with slu, ud, and Richmond the leading candidates. Three players. Two chairs. Who will be left standing when the music stops?

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5608#more-5608

The thing I can't figure out is how creighton became the number 3 team to add along with butler and x in year 1? When this whole thing started I thought they had an outside shot just due to geography. Now they are sitting pretty.
We finally get the Richmond name to go away and now...they're baaaccckk!! Marquette got their way with Creighton...Georgetown is still fighting for Richmond? With a TV package in place, how can all the teams (markets) involved not be in place? Doesn't make sense.
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  #608  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago View Post
We finally get the Richmond name to go away and now...they're baaaccckk!! Marquette got their way with Creighton...Georgetown is still fighting for Richmond? With a TV package in place, how can all the teams (markets) involved not be in place? Doesn't make sense.
Exactly. Anyone who thinks this isn't already a done deal is drinking or smoking something funny. I said it above, but it bears repeating- TV networks don't commit to tens of millions of dollars without knowing what they're getting. Now it's just a matter of a few logistical matters.
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  #609  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Exactly. Anyone who thinks this isn't already a done deal is drinking or smoking something funny. I said it above, but it bears repeating- TV networks don't commit to tens of millions of dollars without knowing what they're getting. Now it's just a matter of a few logistical matters.
I tend to agree, and I think they already know who the teams are, but what if the BE-7 had said to Fox: "We are going to add Xavier, Butler, and Creighton this year, and next year we will add two of the following three, St Louis, Dayton, and Richmond. We have a few details to work out on which two we want." Or they could even have said they will add St Louis and either Richmond or Dayton. I think that would have been enough to negotiate the TV contract.

Last edited by longtimefan; 03-09-2013 at 12:09 PM..
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  #610  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I tend to agree, and I think they already know who the teams are, but what if the BE-7 had said to Fox: "We are going to add Xavier, Butler, and Creighton this year, and next year we will add two of the following three, St Louis, Dayton, and Richmond. We have a few details to work out on which two we want." Or they could even have said they will add St Louis and either Richmond or Dayton. I think that would have been enough to negotiate the TV contract.
I would think they have had ample time to argue their points and come to a consensus. I am not sure 3 months is going to make it any easier to come to a decision. That is why I tend to agree with TA111- it's a done deal.
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  #611  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:46 PM
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Guys, Fox is using real money here. Not play money.

When they put down tens of millions of dollars, they don't do it without knowing EXACTLY what they are getting and EXACTLY when they are getting it. It is frustrating to have to wait, but this is a complicated situation and the t's have to be crossed and the i's dotted before an announcement.

The trolls keep bringing up Richmond because they are empty-headed trolls and only want to stir the pot. And Jersey Mike keeps mentioning Richmond because he's noticed every time he inserts a little uncertainty into the mix the traffic on his blog zooms. And he likes that.

Are you going to believe the trolls and a blogger, or the major media and connected sources like the fellow, Boston Friar, from Providence?

Is there a chance we are on the outside? Yes. But it is a very, very slight one. My instincts tell be Fox knows what it is doing.
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  #612  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:15 PM
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Bobber, I think and hope you are right. I still would have an intermediary try to go strike a deal with St. Louis (now that Creighton appears to be the 10th) that we go to Big East together or stay in A-10 together or form new conference together. This would be a peson with no connection to UD who would go to St. Louis and UD and propose this. This would isolate Richmond.

I also would really focus on advocates that are non-Jesuit like Depaul, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Villanova. I also would try to woo Creighton and Xaiver. I think Georgetown and Marquette are the schools not sure about Dayton. I really think Marquette massively went to bat for Creighton. Looking at the 2 schools, really no material advantages for Creighton and if anything, location should have been plus for Dayton, but Marquette insisted on Dayton. We need that "inside game" for UD.

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 year NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 year NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Geoergetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:37 PM
BRob2Perryman3 BRob2Perryman3 is offline
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Bobber, I think and hope you are right. I still would have an intermediary try to go strike a deal with St. Louis (now that Creighton appears to be the 10th) that we go to Big East together or stay in A-10 together or form new conference together. This would be a peson with no connection to UD who would go to St. Louis and UD and propose this. This would isolate Richmond.

I also would really focus on advocates that are non-Jesuit like Depaul, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Villanova. I also would try to woo Creighton and Xaiver. I think Georgetown and Marquette are the schools not sure about Dayton. I really think Marquette massively went to bat for Creighton. Looking at the 2 schools, really no material advantages for Creighton and if anything, location should have been plus for Dayton, but Marquette insisted on Dayton. We need that "inside game" for UD.

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 year NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 year NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Geoergetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.
Great post. i can answer it with two words: League footprint
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  #614  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:39 PM
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With as much money as there is at stake in this BE deal, no matter how declaritive the rumors/leaks appear, the lobbying by a number of the participants will go on until the new BE is etched in stone. Someone might be knowledgeable unough to put some odds on the likely/unlikely success of that lobbying (as an example VCU at 10% chance vs New Mexico at 2%), but that won't stop the talking heads and rags from throwing out some low probability option for the BE just to make print and stir the pot.

Bottom line, those of us on the outside looking in are going to have our emotions jerked around until it's over. That would be when the BE makes an official announcement. Hopefully a poster will have enough mercy to start a new thread titiled "THIS JUST RELEASED FROM THE BIG EAST.."
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  #615  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:52 PM
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The MVC is supposedly looking at Belmont, Denver, Loyola(Chicago), and Oral Roberts as candidates to replace Creighton if Creighton leaves for the Big East.

I would want Belmont for the A10 if UD ends up in the A10.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...enver/1973937/
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  #616  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:02 PM
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Pretty sure UC on this board tends to mean Cincy, not Conn.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:54 PM
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Can someone please help me better understand what it is about "The Holy Land of Basketball" that shows its dislike of UD fans from this board? Follow this post:

http://holylandofhoops.com/viewtopic...27eea6b717bd95

Unread postby ChiFlyer ť Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:08 pm

I am a huge Dayton fan and I concur that UD has more than its fair share of completely disillusion fans. If UDPride were a cult it would be right in between Mormons and the Manson Family. My only explanation is that Dayton is the only show in town in Dayton. One of our strengths is that the whole community embraces the basketball team. One of the weaknesses is that the community extends way beyond the university and these nut jobs orbit around UDPride. I would guess that the demographic at UDPride is significantly older and less educated then most boards that follow college basketball. I quit years ago trying to reason with these knuckleheads. They are just awful and have very little perspective on the world. The scary part is that these idiots get to vote too.

I hope Dayton gets in. They have a ton of money (BTW, nice work on your endowment Richmond.), the fan base and facilities to compete. If I had to pick between Creighton, Richmond, SLU, and Dayton, I think Creighton is the best choice, but barely. Omaha is a cool little town. They have great facilities, Olympic sports, and fan base. The other three programs all have strengths and weaknesses, but I don't think there is a clear choice and depending how the decision makers prioritize these strengths and weaknesses, they will choose two teams.

The best thing to do is just ignore the trolls. The vast majority of Flyer fans understand the situation and are anxiously awaiting a decision like the SLU and Richmond fans. Unfortunately, a very small but vocal group of Flyers fans give the rest of us a bad name. I'm pretty sure they were given Mountain Dew instead of baby formula as babies. If Dayton doesn't get in, make sure and go to UDPride.com. Hilarity will ensue. Your jaw draw will drop at the theories and conspiracies that are presented. It will be a nice consolation prize if we don't get in.

BTW, pretty certain Dayton is in from everything I have heard as long as they go to 12.
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  #618  
Old 03-09-2013, 07:30 PM
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Norm said on the post game show that UD has been spending a lot of time in Washington (insinuating that the U is having discussions with the C7). He also said that the Richmond rumor is cooling. I am wondering if anyone knows anything substantive related to these comments.
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  #619  
Old 03-09-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
Norm said on the post game show that UD has been spending a lot of time in Washington (insinuating that the U is having discussions with the C7). He also said that the Richmond rumor is cooling. I am wondering if anyone knows anything substantive related to these comments.
Norm was a very nice player and an outstanding shooter, but his over-enthusiasm for "next year's players coming in" has been occurring for 20 years, to no avail. He has a slanted view of the program and fails to see how ****ed weak this program has become.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:35 PM
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norm

Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Norm was a very nice player and an outstanding shooter, but his over-enthusiasm for "next year's players coming in" has been occurring for 20 years, to no avail. He has a slanted view of the program and fails to see how ****ed weak this program has become.
Tommy, not sure what promped your short rant about norm, and your entitled to your opinion---just not sure if you have a hard on for only Norm because your comment makes it sound like you have serious concerns about UD hoops? Nonetheless, why quote someone if your response has nothing to do with the "quote"---other than giving you an opportunity to hate on Norm and the Flyers?
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:55 AM
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You completely misread my statement. I love Norman Grevey as a player and as a host of the post-game show. I have listened to him for years and have nothing but complete respect for him. However, Norm has rose-colored glasses when it comes to "the future of the program and its recruits." I have heard it too many times over the years about this recruit and that recruit and how they will elevate the program. However, the program never gets elevated. So I have learned not to take Norm's or any other prognosticator's views on these recruits very seriously until I see them on the court. Now, maybe Norm is 100% correct about his claims on next year's recruits, but I have heard it before many times and here we are battling for the last spot in the A-10 tournament. This team just seems stuck in the mud of mediocrity...that is my point.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan View Post
Tommy, not sure what promped your short rant about norm, and your entitled to your opinion---just not sure if you have a hard on for only Norm because your comment makes it sound like you have serious concerns about UD hoops? Nonetheless, why quote someone if your response has nothing to do with the "quote"---other than giving you an opportunity to hate on Norm and the Flyers?
College B-Ball Fan: What I hate is mediocrity...not the Flyers nor Norm. I love the Flyers and I love Norm and it sickens me to see where this team ends up every year in the A-10 standings.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:46 AM
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UD and norm

Few if any of us like "mediocrity". Thanks for clarifying--makes better sense now and I understand your entitled to your opinion on the state of the program.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:29 PM
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Far be it for me to make any kind of a case for Creighton's inclusion in the new Big East, but if we, as UD fans, believe that our Olympic sports programs deserve consideration than we must remember that Creighton is also very strong in that area as well. Creighton plays baseball and soccer in great new facilities and has been historically strong and recently successful in both of these highly regarded and often televised sports.

It may or may not even matter, but I would be interested in seeing a rundown of the respective candidate schools and the strength of their mens and womens Olympic sports programs. I don't know that anyone cares about rowing or cross-country, but I do think that success in higher-profile sports like baseball, soccer, lacrosse, and volleyball would be of most interest (if the new Big East even cares).
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Guys, Fox is using real money here. Not play money.
Technically that is incorrect. The dollar (or more accurately Federal Reserve Note) is not real money. It actually isn't money at all. It is currency. Sorry to nitpick, but I couldn't resist.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Larymike View Post
One of the weaknesses is that the community extends way beyond the university and these nut jobs orbit around UDPride. I would guess that the demographic at UDPride is significantly older and less educated then most boards that follow college basketball.
"Troll" does not even begin to describe the type of stupidity associated with this kind of garbage. I think anyone outside of the UD community that came to UDPride would be very impressed by the loyalty and knowledge possessed by the majority of posters.

In fact, when it comes to college basketball in general I come to this forum FIRST. I consider the Dayton fan base to be one of the most educated out there.

"ChiFlyer" sounds like a bitter moron with nothing better to do than bash people from a forum he doesn't agree with on a completely different forum. Not the type of guy (or gal) most UD folks would want to hang out with.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago View Post
We finally get the Richmond name to go away and now...they're baaaccckk!! Marquette got their way with Creighton...Georgetown is still fighting for Richmond? With a TV package in place, how can all the teams (markets) involved not be in place? Doesn't make sense.
The networks and schools aren't always on the same page. In fact, not all the schools are always on the same page.

TV deals typically have three tiers. I'm guessing that in a conference like this, it will break down like this....

1st tier games - those that go national

2nd tier games - those that are involved in the entire conference footprint. In other words, if Nova is playing Providence, it's on in Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, etc. HOwever they define the "market." I'm guessing they'll define it as any city that has a team in the league.

3rd tier games - are only on the affiliates that are based in the citiies of where the game is being played. (IE FSN Ohio for Xavier).


FSN Midwest already has a deal with the MVC. I don't think Fox really wanted Creighton, because they've already got them and the programming for FSN Midwest is already in good shape.

They have Xavier, but only in a series of OOC games. The conference games that they broadcast they actually have to buy. They don't have a deal with Dayton either. I think Fox really wanted Dayton because they knew that FSN Ohio would get big ratings whenever Xavier or Dayton played, regardless of what tier the game was. It adds something they don't have.

I don't think Marquette wanted Dayton because Creighton's president just happens to be on Marquette's Board of Trustees.

I'm not entirely sure why Georgetown would want Richmond, but I'm sure it has more to do with politics than it does anything else.

So, I don't think everyone is on the same page, and I don't think everything is an entirely done deal.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The MVC is supposedly looking at Belmont, Denver, Loyola(Chicago), and Oral Roberts as candidates to replace Creighton if Creighton leaves for the Big East.

I would want Belmont for the A10 if UD ends up in the A10.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...enver/1973937/
If Dayton gets frozen out of the basketball BE, I'd like to see them bolt what's left of the A10 and apply for membership in the MVC. What would be the difference between being the easternmost school in the MVC or the westernmost school in the A10?
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UD Dave View Post
If Dayton gets frozen out of the basketball BE, I'd like to see them bolt what's left of the A10 and apply for membership in the MVC. What would be the difference between being the easternmost school in the MVC or the westernmost school in the A10?
I'm sure UD is considering all their options.

When you remove as many as 7 teams(X, Butler, SLU, Richmond or VCU, Charlotte, Temple, and UMass)from the A10, the A10 is about on the same level as the MVC. That new version of the A10 might be worse than the MVC.

We'll just have to wait and see how this all shakes out.



RPI Rk Atlantic 10 Conf All RPI SOS Rk SOS
21 Butler 11-5 23-7 0.6141 42 0.5626
26 VA Commonwealth 12-3 24-6 0.6092 66 0.5525
27 Saint Louis 13-3 24-6 0.6068 71 0.5499
41 La Salle 11-5 21-8 0.5961 78 0.5455
44 Temple 10-5 22-8 0.5934 72 0.5496
57 Massachusetts 9-7 19-10 0.5727 75 0.5468
71 Charlotte 8-8 20-10 0.5584 113 0.5274
77 Xavier 9-7 17-13 0.5549 52 0.5578
85 Richmond 8-8 18-13 0.5519 80 0.5446
87 St. Joseph's 8-8 17-12 0.5503 95 0.5359
107 Dayton 7-9 17-13 0.5341 93 0.5372
138 St. Bonaventure 7-9 14-15 0.5197 102 0.5326
140 Geo. Washington 7-9 13-16 0.5187 83 0.5431
196 Rhode Island 3-13 8-21 0.4826 50 0.5595
219 Duquesne 1-15 8-22 0.4666 82 0.5437
224 Fordham 3-13 7-24 0.4655 74 0.5479

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html




MVC would probably be without Creighton.

34 Creighton 15-5 26-7 0.6032 89 0.5404
38 Wichita St. 14-6 26-7 0.5997 96 0.5358
65 Indiana St. 10-10 17-14 0.5610 56 0.5571
86 Northern Iowa 11-8 17-14 0.5508 45 0.5616
109 Evansville 10-9 17-14 0.5339 100 0.5333
113 Illinois St. 9-11 18-15 0.5316 112 0.5274
139 Drake 8-12 14-17 0.5194 79 0.5454
190 Southern Ill. 6-13 13-17 0.4880 147 0.4998
191 Bradley 7-12 16-16 0.4869 164 0.4924
209 Missouri State 8-12 9-22 0.4752 76 0.5459


http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_mvc_Men.html
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UD Dave View Post
If Dayton gets frozen out of the basketball BE, I'd like to see them bolt what's left of the A10 and apply for membership in the MVC. What would be the difference between being the easternmost school in the MVC or the westernmost school in the A10?
The East Coast is more prestigious, has more alums, bigger markets, better exposure and is closer than a lot of the far-flung outposts in the MVC.

Pittsburgh, Washington DC, New York City and Philadelphia or Wichita, Cedar Falls, Des Moines and Normal?

That's like Kentucky vs. Slippery Rock ... in Rupp Arena.

Last edited by flyers/avs; 03-10-2013 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by UD Dave View Post
If Dayton gets frozen out of the basketball BE, I'd like to see them bolt what's left of the A10 and apply for membership in the MVC. What would be the difference between being the easternmost school in the MVC or the westernmost school in the A10?
East coast alumni and prospective students from the eastern seaboard make the MVC untenable.
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  #632  
Old 03-10-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by flyers/avs View Post
The East Coast is more prestigious, has more alums, bigger markets, better exposure and is closer than some of the far-flung outposts in the MVC.

Pittsburgh, Washington DC, New York City and Philadelphia vs. Wichita, Cedar Falls, Des Moines and Normal?

That's like Kentucky vs. Slippery Rock ... in Rupp Arena.
I'm not sure the A10 gets more exposure than the MVC. What are you basing that claim upon? The A10 being in bigger markets, or the A10 having a better tv package? I'm not sure that the A10 has a better tv package than the MVC. The A10 tv package, minus as many as 7 teams that might leave, might not be so great.

And does anybody in Philly, NYC, DC, etc. care about A10 basketball?
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by flyers/avs View Post
The East Coast is more prestigious, has more alums, bigger markets, better exposure and is closer than a lot of the far-flung outposts in the MVC.

Pittsburgh, Washington DC, New York City and Philadelphia or Wichita, Cedar Falls, Des Moines and Normal?

That's like Kentucky vs. Slippery Rock ... in Rupp Arena.
You make some good points -- especially regarding the alumni base and market size.

Still, the MVC is well regarded. I don't know much about their facilities, but I do know that I'm not too thrilled with the facilities of those schools that will be left in the A10. Band box after band box. That's long been a complaint of many on this board.

Time will tell how it all plays out. Here's hoping that UD will take whatever happens and make the most of it -- both as an institution and as a team.
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  #634  
Old 03-10-2013, 05:50 PM
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MVC Average attendance

Creighton 16,667
Wichita State 10,428
Bradley 8,447
Missouri State 7,595
Indiana State 5,602
Evansville 4,910
Northern Iowa 4,767
Illinois State 4,636
Drake 4,230
Southern Illinois 2,519

MVC Arena sizes


Bradley 11,164
Creighton 17,260
Drake 7,152
Evansville 11,000
Illinois State 10,200
Indiana St 10,200
Missouri St 11,000
Northern Iowa 7,018
Southern Illinois 8,339
Wichita State 10,500

The MVC has a big advantage in gametime atmosphere
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  #635  
Old 03-10-2013, 09:51 PM
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If UD gets frozen out (which I'm betting against happening, but just in case), perhaps we should grab Duquesne and maybe one other school (Detroit? Loyola? Valpo?) and make for the MVC. While I understand that UD has ties to the East Coast, I'm not sure they're as strong as the school's Midwest ties, or if the A10 is really doing much of anything to further those East Coast ties.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by westchesterflyer View Post
East coast alumni and prospective students from the eastern seaboard make the MVC untenable.
untenable? My understanding is UD's target growth area for prospective students is west and southwest...right in MVC wheel house...and by target I don't mean only future it's been their target for a couple of years with the population shift. MVC would be a great option if UD is not included in Big East.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:49 AM
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Assuming Creighton is #10 this year, I don't see how SLU and UD could both be adds for 2014. That would put 7 teams in the "west" and 5 teams in the east and defeat the purpose of the two division conference.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:35 AM
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There w won't be divisions.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by westchesterflyer View Post
East coast alumni and prospective students from the eastern seaboard make the MVC untenable.
While I was at UD, just 2 years ago, there were not many east coast students. Most of the students were from Ohio, Chicago, and Michigan. Kids from Ohio, Chicago, and Michigan would feel they relate better to those in MVC states than those on the east coast. I know many of the older generations of alums have a strong east coast presence, but that is not the case anymore. UD seems to be much more Midwestern.

Last edited by m21eagle45; 03-11-2013 at 08:35 AM..
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
There w won't be divisions.
And you know this how?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
While I was at UD, just 2 years ago, there were not many east coast students. Most of the students were from Ohio, Chicago, and Michigan. Kids from Ohio, Chicago, and Michigan would feel they relate better to those in MVC states than those on the east coast. I know many of the older generations of alums have a strong east coast presence, but that is not the case anymore. UD seems to be much more Midwestern.
As a convert from the east to Ohio, I don't disagree with you but I don't think the admin will give up on east coast recruitment and that is probably wise. While applications and freshman class size keep going up, I think that bubble is going to burst at some point and a whole lot of schools are going to be scrambling to keep feeding the machines they built.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ParkerUD09 View Post
Assuming Creighton is #10 this year, I don't see how SLU and UD could both be adds for 2014. That would put 7 teams in the "west" and 5 teams in the east and defeat the purpose of the two division conference.
That's easy, Marquette ( maybe even DePaul) may want to be with their friends, if not we could be in the east, seeing as we are the most eastern school in the mid-west. But it is all guesswork at this point.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
As a convert from the east to Ohio, I don't disagree with you but I don't think the admin will give up on east coast recruitment and that is probably wise. While applications and freshman class size keep going up, I think that bubble is going to burst at some point and a whole lot of schools are going to be scrambling to keep feeding the machines they built.

You are correct, sir! When the demographic bubble does get stretched or actually bursts, the traditional markets of NY/NJ, Philly, D.C., Pittsburgh, Rochester, etc. will be important to have maintained. Those areas will be important to helping pay off the debt incurred to build out today's campus.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
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From the Philly media. I don't think this was posted before. It's at least the second piece I've seen that laments the Temple situation.

http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-1...ootball-league
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:01 PM
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I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.

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Old 03-11-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I got PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.
I hope he/she is right!
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.
Hope he's right. Anyone know this guy's track record on "sourced" information?
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer2003 View Post
Hope he's right. Anyone know this guy's track record on "sourced" information?
Originally Posted by SHQCKEY View Post
I hope he/she is right!
Ditto.
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  #649  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer2003 View Post
Hope he's right. Anyone know this guy's track record on "sourced" information?
He's only been wrong once. I think he's Mayan.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.
if anything...its always nice to hear more and more that we're in.

can i ask if what they said is the same as we've been hearing? meaning we wont be joining until '14? or did you not press for anymore info?
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:25 PM
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Sources.....

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.
As far as a "source" is concerned.....assuming it's a Dayton source,...I would only believe Curran, Wabler,....probably Mike Kelly,....as knowing the facts.

About a week ago I had occasion to speak with a very well positioned senior level person within the UD athletics division administration. The conversation had a specific purpose...but, I was itching to inquire (pump the guy) about the status of the new C7+ conference.

I think you can usually tell quite a bit from a person's demeanor....what he/she does or does not say,...and/or how they do/don't say it. There was nothing whatsoever suggesting that this person knew a thing about the C7+ issue and/or UD's situation. Nothing.

So, I'm left with the opinion that if anyone at UD really knows anything...and maybe no one does,...knowledge is limited to the two or three people I've mentioned..and they are not confiding in anyone else.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer2003 View Post
Hope he's right. Anyone know this guy's track record on "sourced" information?
Can't speak about m21eagle45, other than to say I've never noticed a problem with him/her in the past. As far as quoted sources go on this forum, there have been a few people mention once or twice, that people that they are close to at UD and are in the know are confident UD is in. Of the few posters that have done this, none of them have been the "hey look at me" type of poster that could potentially be screaming for attention. The other common trait they have, after they've mentioned it, they haven't talked about it aftewords (A guy looking for attention would scream for more attention, typically anyways).

there are very few people on this board that claim to have "sources in UD" for much of anything. From recruiting, conference affliliation, scheduling, etc... this site just doesn't get into unreported rumors, for better or worse. I don't think I've read one poster anywhere say that Richmond is definently in, I've only read one poster (XU) anywhere state that UD is less than in from their "trusted source".

We'll see how it plays out, but to date, I can think of 1 Butler guy, an X guy, the providence guy on the Big East board, and several UD "guys" state that their sources have UD & SLU in the Big East moving forward.
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  #653  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:41 PM
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I believe that

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.
this poster does in fact have some good connections to UD. I doubt most of us will be comfortable until it is actually a done deal, but I think this is a pretty good source.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
As far as a "source" is concerned.....assuming it's a Dayton source,...I would only believe Curran, Wabler,....probably Mike Kelly,....as knowing the facts.

About a week ago I had occasion to speak with a very well positioned senior level person within the UD athletics division administration. The conversation had a specific purpose...but, I was itching to inquire (pump the guy) about the status of the new C7+ conference.

I think you can usually tell quite a bit from a person's demeanor....what he/she does or does not say,...and/or how they do/don't say it. There was nothing whatsoever suggesting that this person knew a thing about the C7+ issue and/or UD's situation. Nothing.

So, I'm left with the opinion that if anyone at UD really knows anything...and maybe no one does,...knowledge is limited to the two or three people I've mentioned..and they are not confiding in anyone else.
It goes beyond those 3, as far as who in UD knows where they stand.

I'll give an example, though obviously not as "hush-hush" critical. A few years back, I forget which game this was prior to, BG had a boxing robe made up for him for a pre-game speech to the team. There was a brief blurb about it in the paper the next day or two, but otherwise it wasn't mentioned much. however, my wife knew the neighbor of the girl who was contacted by BG's secetary to make the robe for him, and was told about it prior to the game.

So, with that said, neither curran nor wabler make their flight arrangements, very schedules, take minute meetings, etc.. The information is going to leake out beyond those 3. The volleyball coach, soccer coaches, tennis coach, basketball coaches, etc.. have presumably been contacting recruits who have presumably asked the question, what conference are you going to. I doubt any of them want to tell a potential recruit "I have no idea, I'm kept out of such discussions". Things this big can't stay hush-hush forever. Not everyone knows for sure, they're probably told not to discuss it, so if you're not directly involved w/ Curran or Wabler.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:05 PM
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The bottom line is that SOMEBODY knows the answers.

Unfortunately that SOMEBODY is holding onto the information to drag us along through so much broken glass.

I wonder if that/those SOMEBODY/SOMEBODYS knew just how much extra internet traffic and emotional drainage would ensue just by not making a definitive announcement.

To be sure, they know now and are going to milk this for all it's worth to them, while the hundreds of thousands of Players/Coaches/Fans/Donors/Alumni/etc... of each of these "prospective" invitees blister their clicking and typing fingers to find out one new shred of evidence that their beloved institution will be taking the next step.

SOMEBODY PLEASE JUST END THE UNCERTAINTY!!!

ps...Wow, being a fan is exhausting...
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I know many of you do not take people quoting sources seriously...and that is fine, so take this for what it's worth. But a very good source has told me UD will be in the new Big East. I trust this source greatly and would be very surprised if he is wrong. But for those of you who are skeptical I totally understand. And before I get PM's I can't give up my source. But they are a person who is in the know.

I have heard the same from a very very connected source. Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 View Post
The bottom line is that SOMEBODY knows the answers.

Unfortunately that SOMEBODY is holding onto the information to drag us along through so much broken glass.

I wonder if that/those SOMEBODY/SOMEBODYS knew just how much extra internet traffic and emotional drainage would ensue just by not making a definitive announcement.
AHA! BUSTED! Chris R KNOWS and is withholding the information to generate page views!
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:29 PM
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I spoke to a UD Insider Today

Spoke to him on Friday and Today. Both times he said both times that "UD has not been asked by the C7". He said the Wabler is playing his hand very close to his vest. He stated that Wabler knows his politics and would never do anything to upset either the C7 or the A-10. He said that UD is very very well positioned for this. But he would not go any further than this. This guy is definitely a UD insider, but I have no idea if he knows anything or would know. He obviously would not tell me if he knew. That's is my two cents. UD Earl
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:36 PM
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Smile Purgatory

We Catholics are very familier with the concept of purgatory. Joining the "Catholic League"
aka/the Big East and waiting a year is far better than an indefinite stay in purgatory to enter heaven. While we live in an age of instant gratification, Catholics can appreciate wisdom of waiting with grace.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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Will the d@mn C7 just send the white smoke up the chimney already?!?!!!
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:44 PM
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C'mon Med!

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
It goes beyond those 3, as far as who in UD knows where they stand.

I'll give an example, though obviously not as "hush-hush" critical. A few years back, I forget which game this was prior to, BG had a boxing robe made up for him for a pre-game speech to the team. There was a brief blurb about it in the paper the next day or two, but otherwise it wasn't mentioned much. however, my wife knew the neighbor of the girl who was contacted by BG's secetary to make the robe for him, and was told about it prior to the game.

So, with that said, neither curran nor wabler make their flight arrangements, very schedules, take minute meetings, etc.. The information is going to leake out beyond those 3. The volleyball coach, soccer coaches, tennis coach, basketball coaches, etc.. have presumably been contacting recruits who have presumably asked the question, what conference are you going to. I doubt any of them want to tell a potential recruit "I have no idea, I'm kept out of such discussions". Things this big can't stay hush-hush forever. Not everyone knows for sure, they're probably told not to discuss it, so if you're not directly involved w/ Curran or Wabler.
Suppose the president of Georgetown or his deputy tells Curran ( or Wabler) that "UD will be invited...but, that information is to be strictly confidential,....or risk jeopardinzing the invitation....we (the C7) will make the announcement, no leaks....repeat, do not jeopardize your position".

In such a circumstance do you think that Curran would inform anyone other than Wabler? There is no way such information would shared beyond those two...I don't think they would tell their wives...I mean that.

To suggest that executive assistants, secretaries, coaches, etc, would become privy to such information under those circumstances is to guarantee a leak. It is impossible to protect information when many people are in the loop.

That being the case, I don't see why a coach would hesitate to explain the facts to a recruit...simply saying, "we do not know". You tell a recruit and you might as well issue a press release.

I think the C7 leaders would go berserk if information like that was revealed by a school in advance of the C7 announcement. To me, that means, at UD only two or three people know...and maybe no one knows. Curran may have been told by a C7 president of representative that a decision has been made and will be revealed when the C7 feels it appropriate. What would Curran then say, "Aw, please tell me, we're dying to know".

C'mon. Either no one at UD knows or two or three know.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Suppose the president of Georgetown or his deputy tells Curran ( or Wabler) that "UD will be invited...but, that information is to be strictly confidential,....or risk jeopardinzing the invitation....we (the C7) will make the announcement, no leaks....repeat, do not jeopardize your position".

In such a circumstance do you think that Curran would inform anyone other than Wabler? There is no way such information would shared beyond those two...I don't think they would tell their wives...I mean that.

To suggest that executive assistants, secretaries, coaches, etc, would become privy to such information under those circumstances is to guarantee a leak. It is impossible to protect information when many people are in the loop.

That being the case, I don't see why a coach would hesitate to explain the facts to a recruit...simply saying, "we do not know". You tell a recruit and you might as well issue a press release.

I think the C7 leaders would go berserk if information like that was revealed by a school in advance of the C7 announcement. To me, that means, at UD only two or three people know...and maybe no one knows. Curran may have been told by a C7 president of representative that a decision has been made and will be revealed when the C7 feels it appropriate. What would Curran then say, "Aw, please tell me, we're dying to know".

C'mon. Either no one at UD knows or two or three know.

Executive assistants know, trust me. They type and proof essentially all correspondence (and in some cases most all emails) these guys have. I worked in Wabler's (was head of Advancement then) office AND in Brother Ray's office when I was there 20 years ago.

Executive assistants know everything..........
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:51 PM
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Highly doubtful the admin doesn't know what's going on. The admin also knows the fastest way to get fired is to flap their gums.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:55 PM
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Do not believe it...

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Executive assistants know, trust me. They type and proof essentially all correspondence (and in some cases most all emails) these guys have. I worked in Wabler's (was head of Advancement then) office AND in Brother Ray's office when I was there 20 years ago.

Executive assistants know everything..........
When something really is important and highly sensitive exec assistants don't know. The risk is too great.

I recall reading recently about communications re a corporate merger. The article included little retails such as the fact that documents that had to be faxed were done so by a member of the Board of Directors with another board member standing by the fax machine at the other end....wouldn't dare let anyone but a director handle the info.

Other times you learn of insider trading evidence reflecting the fact that info was leaked.

If you want to protect info, no underlings "know".
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:35 PM
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FWIW...I spoke with a mens assistant with St. Joes last week. We spoke regarding the conference and when I was apprehensive to be optimistic until the ink is dry, he stated, "Trust me, you guys are in." He went on and made it clear that he thought we were in. He has been around the scene for some time, and maybe he does know something, maybe not. But I found it interesting that the certainty was more than speculation on his part.

It is what it is, and he could have been full of hot air too...but there are more than 30 or so people that know exactly what is going on. And to think that none of those 30 or so have leaked the info to others is crazy.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:38 PM
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Respectfully disagree.

Insider trading, with legal ramifications, compared to college conference affiliation.

I was aware before it was released to the public in 1993 about joining the Great Midwest. And the executive assistant knew weeks before that.

I was aware of the accounting firm merger months before it was announced when I wasn't even a partner, just a director running the consulting group.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:47 PM
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this info isn't gov't classified info.

keeping it quiet i would imagine is to simply not make any statements to the media and not to be openly talking about it to the public.

i'm sure more than a handful of people within the admin know whats happening already.

combine that with 11 other universities admins...stuff is bound to leak.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:11 PM
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Not quite the same...

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Respectfully disagree.

Insider trading, with legal ramifications, compared to college conference affiliation.

I was aware before it was released to the public in 1993 about joining the Great Midwest. And the executive assistant knew weeks before that.

I was aware of the accounting firm merger months before it was announced when I wasn't even a partner, just a director running the consulting group.
Knowledge of the Great Midwest issue was of little or no significance.

What accounting firm merger? Was the firm a publically traded company? If not, it doesn't matter.

If knowledge of the C7+ decision is so relatively unimportant, why hasn't an official of one of the 12+ schools involved spoken out about it? And if so many know among the 12 schools, why hasn't a low level person leaked the information?

In my opinion, UD Earl's post makes the most sense of any re this matter.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:30 PM
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I have been assured by everyone I've talked to that we are definitely in....my concern is....what are we in
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Knowledge of the Great Midwest issue was of little or no significance.
Really? Why is that? The Great Midwest situation would seem to have been of the same level of significance as the c7 situation.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
If knowledge of the C7+ decision is so relatively unimportant, why hasn't an official of one of the 12+ schools involved spoken out about it? And if so many know among the 12 schools, why hasn't a low level person leaked the information?
Isn't that what an 'unnamed source' usually is?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:15 PM
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Wow, check this out.

This would seem like a strong impetus for the c7 to go to 12 teams next year.


Tom Timmermann‏@tomtimm St Louis Post

NY Times says Big East, Fox deal worth $500 million over 12 years, but goes to $600 million if 12 teams in league.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Wow, check this out.

This would seem like a strong impetus for the c7 to go to 12 teams next year.


Tom Timmermann‏@tomtimm St Louis Post

NY Times says Big East, Fox deal worth $500 million over 12 years, but goes to $600 million if 12 teams in league.
$500 / 10 equals $50

$600 / 12 equals $50
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
$500 / 10 equals $50

$600 / 12 equals $50
Good point.

Going to 12 teams seems like a win now for all 12 teams. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't go to 12 teams now next year right off the bat.


I wonder what happened to 10 next year and then 12 in 2014-2015?

https://twitter.com/tomtimm/status/311273465594388481

https://twitter.com/tomtimm/status/311273558456279040



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sp...-up.html?_r=1&

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Old 03-11-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
$500 / 10 equals $50

$600 / 12 equals $50
But if there's unequal distribution, as has been reported, this could be a powerful incentive to do Fox's bidding right away.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:43 PM
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All things being equal you want the larger conference because it insulates you from getting poached down the road and also guarantees a certain number of teams in the NCAA tournament.

A 10-team league will be a 3-5 big league. It will never get more than 5 bids because every conference win coincides with a conference loss. The greatest conference in the history of college basketball (Big East) got 11 bids one season -- a D-I record. The next best by any league? Eight bids. Again, all by the Big East. And this was a 17(?) team conference.

40% is usually the max any league will get in a season. In a 10-team league, thats 4 bids. We are getting 4-6 bids already in the existing A10.



If you want 4-6 teams in the NCAAs, you need 12 teams. Its purely a numbers game.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:06 PM
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Different era entirely....

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Really? Why is that? The Great Midwest situation would seem to have been of the same level of significance as the c7 situation.
College sports today bears little resemblance to sports of that era....probably, almost none.

In those days the notion that Nebraska and A&M would leave the Big 12 (or was it the SWC) for the Big Ten and SEC, respectively, was unthinkable....as was Maryland and Rutgers joining the Big Ten,....or Colorado in the PAC8/10/12....as well as the complete reshuffling of conference alignments that has occurred...all driven by FB money.....amounts or money that would have been unimaginable at the time.

Money has changed everything about college sports.

The reason why the "Great Midwest situation" was not of comparable significance to the C7+ situation is because the former hardly mattered.

Dayton going from being an independent...to joining the MCC,...to joining the GMW....was hardly a major newsworthy story even in Dayton. Today, it can be argued that if we are not included in the C7+ conference UD athletics will suffer a setback from which it will not recover. We will be permanently relegated to some form of low-mid-major status that will make recruiting suffer, will financially disadvantage us, etc.

Please understand, I am not making these arguments. I am just repeating them as a means of illustrating the difference between the C7+ situation and UD's jump to the GMW.

Money....money...money is what's different
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:01 AM
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Several weeks ago I posted that several TV networks were interested in bidding for the C7's rights. I mentioned that dozens of broadcast executives and their staff must have seen the schools who would be involved in order to crunch the numbers and come up with a calculated bid. I stand by that.

And I think the reports that all the schools involved have all been sworn to absolute secrecy are true. They are all quiet as can be.

But if Fox (the eventual bid winner) and NBC (just along for the ride) each got a peek under the tarpaulin at what the C7 was going to look like, doesn't it stand to reason that investigative reporters with a lot of pull would be able to coax out (or just buy) the information that so many must be privy to?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:04 AM
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Notre Dame to the ACC next year for basketball. That's absolutely huge for us.

http://college-basketball.si.com/201...acc-next-year/
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:13 AM
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So louisville is in the big east, er America twelve next season? I assumed they were getting out early as well and rutgers
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:19 AM
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Yep, they leave for their conferences in the 2014 season. I'm not sure why, but that's the deal. Louisville might try to leave earlier though.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:28 AM
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It is all because of Marylands dispute with the ACC on exit fees. They can't leave early without resolving that. B1G couldn't work up a schedule without both Maryland and Rutgers as they would have an odd number of teams. And with Maryland in the ACC so would they with Louisville. So the football schools sit pat for a year.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:45 AM
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Catholic 7 officially announces keeping Big East name; media deal, league tourney & additional members to be announced in "near future"
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:59 AM
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I think a good incentive for the BE to go to 12 teams would be the potential additional revenue from the 11th and 12th teams in terms of NCAA tournament units. How much is a NCAA tournament unit worth?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I think a good incentive for the BE to go to 12 teams would be the potential additional revenue from the 11th and 12th teams in terms of NCAA tournament units. How much is a NCAA tournament unit worth?
In addition, Fox needs content. 10 doesn't get them enough content. Also, keep in mind the other sports. Some of the schools don't even participate insome of the olympic sports-need at least 12 to make sense.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Several weeks ago I posted that several TV networks were interested in bidding for the C7's rights. I mentioned that dozens of broadcast executives and their staff must have seen the schools who would be involved in order to crunch the numbers and come up with a calculated bid. I stand by that.

And I think the reports that all the schools involved have all been sworn to absolute secrecy are true. They are all quiet as can be.

But if Fox (the eventual bid winner) and NBC (just along for the ride) each got a peek under the tarpaulin at what the C7 was going to look like, doesn't it stand to reason that investigative reporters with a lot of pull would be able to coax out (or just buy) the information that so many must be privy to?
Simple answer is "Yes". There have been "reports" for 6 weeks now about how this might play out - with enough source confidence for major news outlets to report it. Yet, there's been no official announcement. That itself is a "leak". There are many outside of Wabler, Curran and Kelly that are in the know. Thus, we have all of these leaks and reported "sources" - all of whom speak on the condition of anonynity.

I agree, the landscape of collegeiate athletics is much different now than it was in 1993, when we joined the Great Midwest. One thing that hasn't changed in those 20 years is the relationship and job duties of an executive assistant. They know. They always know everything.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:56 AM
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the other thing the best exec asst know...what they know isn't to be divulged.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I think a good incentive for the BE to go to 12 teams would be the potential additional revenue from the 11th and 12th teams in terms of NCAA tournament units. How much is a NCAA tournament unit worth?
Roughly $1.8 million per team per game.

The thing about going to twelve teams is that you have to split that money twelve ways, not nine or ten. The Mountain West may not be making as much money as some of the leagues that send six and seven teams, but last year they only had eight teams and four got in, so even though the total amount of money was less, what each school ended up getting afte they shared it was about the same.

I'm guessing that Fox will want a twelve team, single division conference. This means an unbalanced schedule. I know many have speculated about an East and West division, but the reality is if Fox is forking out that money, and they want to broadcast two Marquette vs Georgetown games, then they are going to get two Marquette vs Georgetown games. Most major basketball conferences have gotten away from divisions in basketball for this very reason.

They also want teams that are not currently involved with Fox affiliates. The MVC already has a deal with FSN Midwest, so Creighton isn't nearly as attractive to Fox because they already have Creighton. The problem is that some of the other schools (and one in particular) want Creighton anyway.

I honestly have no idea what the final lineup will look like. I don't think everyone is in complete agreement about what it should be, and it is impossible to determine with any certainty how it will play out.

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:03 AM
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Take out $150M for startup costs, exit fees, reimbursed lost NCAA units, etc.

$600 - 150 / 12 teams = $37.5M per
$500 - 150 / 10 teams = $35 per

If a 10 team league gets (best case) half its members in, that's 5 (duh). If the 12 team league does, that's one more team, do an incrementally Better chance of someone making a deep run.

Two arguments in favor of 12
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:27 AM
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Another argument in favor of 12 would be more advertising revenue for Fox due to being able to charge higher advertising rates due to a bigger league footprint.


Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Roughly $1.8 million per team per game.
Your $1.8 million/team/game figure contradicts the below $250k figure, which figure is correct?


Under the current system, one game played in the tournament (unit)=$250,000. The team keeps half?, and the rest is divided equally among the conference members?

Here’s a base case: Say the Big East adopts the same system. In a 10 team league, we will say 5 teams play a total of 10 NCAA games, $1,250,000 is split among the other 9 members=$138,889 per team. In a 12 team league, we will say 6 teams play a total of 12 games. The revenue split then decreases to
125,000x12=1,500,000/11=$136,364. There are arguments that can be made that more teams=more potential. But at the same time, an argument can be made that more teams water down the conference more. In turn, the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th team may end up dropping a seed line, decreasing the likelihood of more games/units.

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:37 AM
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Hard to believe that the new BE will draw like the old BE. Basketball has trouble getting tv viewers to watch anyway. It ain't football. Also hard to believe a UD-Creighton game , or worse yet UD/Depaul, would have much drawing power outside the school's immediate areas. 600M is a lot of money, will the BE be able to deliver the goods? that is an open question. Move to the BE would be good for the Flyers and increased schedule strength should be met by increased talent for the Flyers. Could be rough for a year or two, especially if we go next year.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Another argument in favor of 12 would be more advertising revenue for Fox due to being able to charge higher advertising rates due to a bigger league footprint.




Your $1.8 million/team/game figure contradicts the below $250k figure, which figure is correct?
Multiply that figure by six. The conferences don't get the money in one lump sum. It's paid out over six years. In other words, the Horizon League's payout this year will include Butler's tournament runs even though Butler isn't in the league anymore.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Multiply that figure by six. The conferences don't get the money in one lump sum. It's paid out over six years. In other words, the Horizon League's payout this year will include Butler's tournament runs even though Butler isn't in the league anymore.
To clarify xubrew's point here, is that the Horizon League will get the payout for previous year's tournament runs for Butler, not this year.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Multiply that figure by six. The conferences don't get the money in one lump sum. It's paid out over six years. In other words, the Horizon League's payout this year will include Butler's tournament runs even though Butler isn't in the league anymore.
Ok. 250,000x6=1,500,000.

So, around $1.5 to $1.8 million per team per game paid out over 6 years.

Any idea why they pay this out over 6 years?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:11 PM
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:14 PM
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Ok. 250,000x6=1,500,000.

So, around $1.5 to $1.8 million per team per game paid out over 6 years.

Any idea why they pay this out over 6 years?
I have no idea at all. I've often wondered that myself. Since every year a conference is getting money for the previous five years as well, it oftentimes comes out to about the same, so why not just dish it out in one lump sum??

It does suck for realignment because if Xavier and Butler go to the new league, it will be six years before they get a full share. Maybe that has soemthing to do with it, but I really don't know.

I guess it's a little less than $1.8 million. I guess my math failed me when I tried to figure up what it would be with the new CBS/Turner deal.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:25 PM
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It might just be so that everyone can have some predictable income. If you go from 6 teams to 3 teams in one year, that's a big swing in cash for everyone. Smoothing it out over 5 years lets schools do a better job of planning their budget in advance.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Technically that is incorrect. The dollar (or more accurately Federal Reserve Note) is not real money. It actually isn't money at all. It is currency. Sorry to nitpick, but I couldn't resist.
Nobody?

monˇey noun
1. any circulating medium of exchange, including coins, paper money, and demand deposits.
2. paper money
3. gold, silver, or other metal in pieces of convenient form stamped by public authority and issued as a medium of exchange and measure of value.
4. any article or substance used as a medium of exchange, measure of wealth, or means of payment, as checks on demand deposit or cowrie.
5. a particular form or denomination of currency.



What would "real money" be then? You prefer bartering one nearly useless item (gold) over a different nearly useless item (paper/linen)?

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Executive assistants know, trust me. They type and proof essentially all correspondence (and in some cases most all emails) these guys have. I worked in Wabler's (was head of Advancement then) office AND in Brother Ray's office when I was there 20 years ago.
It's not 1980 anymore. Executive assistants surely type a few memo's to the GP and build PowerPoints for the exec's, but it's not like the CEO of today's company (or president of a university) doesn't send his / her own e-mails.

"Margaret, can you come in here and show me how to add paper to this newfangled lithiograph machine?"
"Mr. CEO, that's the laser copier."
"Why do we need copies of lasers? I need a lithiograph!!"

Of course, you can find exceptions, holdover dinosaurs who can't manage for themselves but generally speaking these people are no longer dictating e-mails to Ms. Crabtree and her steno paper.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I'm guessing that Fox will want a twelve team, single division conference. This means an unbalanced schedule.
I will take this opportunity to (a) assume UD's in the new conference so (b) I can pre-emptively complain about UD's pod being the most difficult.
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