Dayton not Going to a Depleted Big East with Limited NCAA Bids in 2014!

[Fan4allUDSports]

Two questions.

1. Is the Big East the new conference or is it the America 12?
2. If the Big East is the new conference, is it possible for the old conference to collect tournament credits for deeds if none of the members of the 'original' conference. I wonder because if in 2 years there are no teams left would the America 12 collect the credits? Also, what happens to tournament credits if a conference dissolves?

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports Two questions. 1. Is the Big East the new conference or is it the America 12? 2. If the Big East is the new conference, is it possible for the old conference to collect tournament credits for deeds if none of the members of the 'original' conference. I wonder because if in 2 years there are no teams left would the America 12 collect the credits? Also, what happens to tournament credits if a conference dissolves?

In a way, they're both the new conference. The Big East is keeping the tournament credits, yet they're paying through the nose on exit fees and walking away from the exit fees that Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia owe the league.

If a conference dissolves, the NCAA absorbes the remaining fees. I guess they worked out the technicalities so the Big East is still the Big East and the America Twelve is a new league as far as the NCAA is concerned, but that the America East is the old league as far as the exit fees are concerned.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Nobody? mon·ey noun 1. any circulating medium of exchange, including coins, paper money, and demand deposits. 2. paper money 3. gold, silver, or other metal in pieces of convenient form stamped by public authority and issued as a medium of exchange and measure of value. 4. any article or substance used as a medium of exchange, measure of wealth, or means of payment, as checks on demand deposit or cowrie. 5. a particular form or denomination of currency. What would "real money" be then? You prefer bartering one nearly useless item (gold) over a different nearly useless item (paper/linen)?

There is such a thing as paper money. The dollar is not paper "money," it is paper "currency." You are correct that gold is money and can also be currency.

If you think there is no difference between paper and gold, I have lots of paper and I would love to trade with you

[ud2]

I'm wondering what are the chances of Gonzaga joining the c7 for basketball only?

Gonzaga would be the one doing almost all of the travelling. The other teams would only have to travel to Spokane at most once per year, and that would not be much of a hardship. If Gonzaga was fine with doing all that travelling, maybe that could happen.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ud2 I'm wondering what are the chances of Gonzaga joining the c7 for basketball only? Gonzaga would be the one doing almost all of the traveling. The other teams would only have to travel to Spokane at most once per year, and that would not be much of a hardship. If Gonzaga was fine with doing all that traveling, maybe that could happen.

You're bringing this up now at this late date??? You really know how to put a downer on things. Besides, I believe it has already been discussed.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by xubrew In a way, they're both the new conference. The Big East is keeping the tournament credits, yet they're paying through the nose on exit fees and walking away from the exit fees that Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia owe the league.

I thought the c7 didn't pay any exit fees?

Perhaps one of the reasons why the c7 gave in to Cincinnati, Connecticut, and South Florida on their share of the exit fee money was because the c7 themselves did not have to pay any exit fees?

Originally Posted by longtimefan You're bringing this up now at this late date??? You really know how to put a downer on things. Besides, I believe it has already been discussed.

Sorry, I don't remember this particular angle being discussed.

Unfortunately, Gonzaga to the c7 for basketball only seems like a somewhat realistic scenario to me, especially now that there isn't really any penalty for going to 12 teams. The posters on the Marquette board really want Gonzaga.

If Gonzaga is in play, that is bad news for UD.

Man, if UD gets in this league, this $600 million deal could mean around $4 million/year for UD, that would be a huge increase for UD.


Edit: and BTW, this link says that Creighton's exit fee is $50k, which will obviously not be a problem for them. $50k? Almost seems silly, like why would you set the exit fee at $50k? Why bother with even having an exit fee then?

http://holylandofhoops.com/viewtopic...2&p=2694#p2700

[The Gem]

From my "insider" sources the announcement of who is in the new league won't be made until after the A-10 tournament is over. I have no idea if UD is in or out.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by The Gem From my "insider" sources the announcement of who is in the new league won't be made until after the A-10 tournament is over. I have no idea if UD is in or out.

Is that when it is over for UD, or when the entire A-10 tournament is over? Ouch, did I just say that?

[FlyerFanatic08]

Originally Posted by The Gem From my "insider" sources the announcement of who is in the new league won't be made until after the A-10 tournament is over. I have no idea if UD is in or out.

you didnt ask...or they didnt know?

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by oRed the other thing the best exec asst know...what they know isn't to be divulged.

At the present stage of negotiations between the C7 and candidate schools, I see no reason why any exec assts need to know anything. Again, at the current stage I see no reason why any/all communication between C7 officials and schools could not be verbal alone.

All a school like UD needs to know is if they will be issued an invitation or not. Such info could be transmitted to Curran or Wabler verbally. Where is the need for any "assistance", executive or otherwise?

After an announcement is made is when work involving others comes into play. In my opinion, nothing else is required at this stage.

I still believe that only 1-3 people at UD know our U's situation.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[UDGutter2]

The question with Gonzaga isn't if they would take them for basketball only, but who would take them for non-revenue sports only? Would they have to pay the other league to participate in the non-rev sports?

[hawkoooo]

I think it would be a very bad sign for UD if the whole Gonzaga/St. Mary's idea is still under consideration at this point. Unless of course they already expect to add more than 12.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer College sports today bears little resemblance to sports of that era....probably, almost none. In those days the notion that Nebraska and A&M would leave the Big 12 (or was it the SWC) for the Big Ten and SEC, respectively, was unthinkable....as was Maryland and Rutgers joining the Big Ten,....or Colorado in the PAC8/10/12....as well as the complete reshuffling of conference alignments that has occurred...all driven by FB money.....amounts or money that would have been unimaginable at the time. Money has changed everything about college sports. The reason why the "Great Midwest situation" was not of comparable significance to the C7+ situation is because the former hardly mattered. Dayton going from being an independent...to joining the MCC,...to joining the GMW....was hardly a major newsworthy story even in Dayton. Today, it can be argued that if we are not included in the C7+ conference UD athletics will suffer a setback from which it will not recover. We will be permanently relegated to some form of low-mid-major status that will make recruiting suffer, will financially disadvantage us, etc. Please understand, I am not making these arguments. I am just repeating them as a means of illustrating the difference between the C7+ situation and UD's jump to the GMW. Money....money...money is what's different

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the money involved today seems to be much greater, but I also disagree because getting into the GMW represented increased prestige and exposure(short-lived), led to better recruiting(again short-lived), and would have given UD access to a better tv deal later on when more games started to be covered on cable tv.

Getting into the GMW was absolutely a newsworthy item/a big deal at the time.

Any time you change leagues it is a very big deal. Had UD been left out of the A10, for example, that would have been a huge blow to UD.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 I agree and disagree. I agree that the money involved today seems to be much greater, but I also disagree because getting into the GMW represented increased prestige and exposure(short-lived), led to better recruiting(again short-lived), and would have given UD access to a better tv deal later on when more games started to be covered on cable tv. Getting into the GMW was absolutely a newsworthy item/a big deal at the time. Any time you change leagues it is a very big deal. Had UD been left out of the A10, for example, that would have been a huge blow to UD.

ud, the points you raised re UD and the GMW were of local interest only. The new Big East/C7 has been a boiling national media topic for many weeks.

As for specifics of the GMW conference birth....at the time UD did not have a Div I sports program.....we didn't have a credible Div III program. Yet, that was not an obstacle to admission at the time...in that era.

The pathetic condition of UD sports at the time would not get us into any Div I conference today.

What is different now is, in a word, everything.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo There is such a thing as paper money. The dollar is not paper "money," it is paper "currency." You are correct that gold is money and can also be currency. If you think there is no difference between paper and gold, I have lots of paper and I would love to trade with you

I'm in. I'll trade you an unlimited number of piles of US $2,000 paper per ounce of gold. Where shall we meet to begin doing business?

Try to eat that gold when you're starving to death. Moon rocks are also rare. And also have very limited practical use.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I'm in. I'll trade you an unlimited number of piles of US $2,000 paper per ounce of gold. Where shall we meet to begin doing business? Try to eat that gold when you're starving to death. Moon rocks are also rare. And also have very limited practical use.

Why would I eat the gold? I figure in that situation I would trade it for food and then eat the food. Gold has been used as money successfully for thousands of years without fail. On the contrary, every single fiat currency in the history of man has failed (i.e. returned to $0).

I can't tell if you are joking or not when you say that gold has "no practical use." Unless you are suggesting that the myriad of consumer products containing gold are all impractical? You should probably throw your cell phone away!

At any rate I reject your offer, as $2,000 is about $500 above the current price of gold.

[FlyerinChicago]

Could you two get a room? Sheez.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by ud2 I'm wondering what are the chances of Gonzaga joining the c7 for basketball only? Gonzaga would be the one doing almost all of the travelling. The other teams would only have to travel to Spokane at most once per year, and that would not be much of a hardship. If Gonzaga was fine with doing all that travelling, maybe that could happen.

About zero. Logistically, who wants to make a mid week trip to the middle of no where washington, 3 time zones away on a Wednesday? How many games would Gonaga drop that they'd otherwise win b/c they're traveling 2 or 3 time zones away for all conference games.

If we ever live in a vaccum, Gonzaga makes a ton of sense. Until engineers figure that Gonzaga is only talked about on interenet message boards.

[xubrew]

Here is something that makes zero sense to me....

The Mountain West will have 11 full members, and Hawaii will be an affiliate member for football.

Hmmmm. Who would a logical choice be to get to a twelve team format in all sports?? Since Hawaii is already an affiliate member for football, they could look in to adding a school without a football team.

Who would a good choice be??


Now, what makes no sense at all is why they're not doing it. Gonzaga has been very candid about wanting into a more competitive basketball conference. It seems as obvious as anything could possibly be.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by xubrew Here is something that makes zero sense to me.... The Mountain West will have 11 full members, and Hawaii will be an affiliate member for football. Hmmmm. Who would a logical choice be to get to a twelve team format in all sports?? Since Hawaii is already an affiliate member for football, they could look in to adding a school without a football team. Who would a good choice be?? Now, what makes no sense at all is why they're not doing it. Gonzaga has been very candid about wanting into a more competitive basketball conference. It seems as obvious as anything could possibly be.

Why would Gonzaga, the #1 ranked team in the country, a nationally recognized power, a NCAA regular,....a school with BB success that we can't even dream of,....want for a second to do anything differently?....to make any changes in their situation?

That seems as obvious to me as anything could possibly be.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Why would Gonzaga, the #1 ranked team in the country, a nationally recognized power, a NCAA regular,....a school with BB success that we can't even dream of,....want for a second to do anything differently?....to make any changes in their situation? That seems as obvious to me as anything could possibly be.

Same reason Butler did last year?

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Why would Gonzaga, the #1 ranked team in the country, a nationally recognized power, a NCAA regular,....a school with BB success that we can't even dream of,....want for a second to do anything differently?....to make any changes in their situation? That seems as obvious to me as anything could possibly be.

Are you being serious??

Well, for starters they're probably not too keen on playing Pacific twice a year every year instead of a stronger OOC opponent. That was kind of rammed down their throats. They had to cancel the series with Memphis, and will probably need to drop another one now. So, it's not as if all has remained the same.

Secondly, it's stronger competition, which they've said they wanted. It's the same reason Butler looked to leave the Horizon League even though they were already spending most of their time in the rankings and had been the national runner up in back to back years.

Thirdly, the deal the Mountain West just signed with ESPN is ever so slightly better than the one the WCC has. Gonzaga would enhance it even more.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Why would I eat the gold? I figure in that situation I would trade it for food and then eat the food. Gold has been used as money successfully for thousands of years without fail. On the contrary, every single fiat currency in the history of man has failed (i.e. returned to $0). I can't tell if you are joking or not when you say that gold has "no practical use." Unless you are suggesting that the myriad of consumer products containing gold are all impractical? You should probably throw your cell phone away! At any rate I reject your offer, as $2,000 is about $500 above the current price of gold.

I didn't say "no practical use" I said "limited practical use". Only a fraction is used for practical purposes (11% industrial consumption).

"Gold has been used as money successfully for thousands of years without fail." Why does it have value? No one ever answers that--the response is always "because it always has." Not a logical response.

PM me.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer College sports today bears little resemblance to sports of that era....probably, almost none. In those days the notion that Nebraska and A&M would leave the Big 12 (or was it the SWC) for the Big Ten and SEC, respectively, was unthinkable....as was Maryland and Rutgers joining the Big Ten,....or Colorado in the PAC8/10/12....as well as the complete reshuffling of conference alignments that has occurred...all driven by FB money.....amounts or money that would have been unimaginable at the time. Money has changed everything about college sports. The reason why the "Great Midwest situation" was not of comparable significance to the C7+ situation is because the former hardly mattered. Dayton going from being an independent...to joining the MCC,...to joining the GMW....was hardly a major newsworthy story even in Dayton. Today, it can be argued that if we are not included in the C7+ conference UD athletics will suffer a setback from which it will not recover. We will be permanently relegated to some form of low-mid-major status that will make recruiting suffer, will financially disadvantage us, etc. Please understand, I am not making these arguments. I am just repeating them as a means of illustrating the difference between the C7+ situation and UD's jump to the GMW. Money....money...money is what's different

Arkansas left the SWC for the SEC at some point during that era. I can't remember why, though.

Also Nebraska was never in the SWC...they were in the Big 8 along with the Kansas schools, Oklahoma schools, Colorado, Missouri, and Iowa State. I'm not sure if they ever would have left that group for the Big Ten. Probably not, at least not back then.

[UD_NY]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Why would Gonzaga, the #1 ranked team in the country, a nationally recognized power, a NCAA regular,....a school with BB success that we can't even dream of,....want for a second to do anything differently?....to make any changes in their situation? That seems as obvious to me as anything could possibly be.

Said the lazy squirrel in the middle of summer. No reason to try and stock pile, look at everything I got now!

[Field of 64]

1) Today's Star-Ledger article describing the official formal split today, with UD and SLU (again) mentioned as the likely 11/12th teams:

http://www.nj.com/college-basketball...c_7_split.html

2) Today's open letter from the Villanova President announcing the formal split, and among other things, stating that details regarding "additional members of the new conference will be announced in the near future".

http://www.vuhoops.com/catholic-7-ne...lic-7-big-east

I have no connections or inside information, whatsoever. That being said, if I was in charge of either the conference or Fox Sports 1, I would absolutely bring together the Presidents/AD's of the 12 schools (hopefully including UD!) and announce the new members (staging them however they want for 2013 and 2014) at some point during the Big East tournament. Do it while all the Presidents/AD's are in New York for the Big East and A10 tournaments (with Creighton flying in since they're off this week), and do it when interest is highest (during the final "old" Big East tournament and with interest still running high from all the recent news).

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bobber]

From the Chicago paper.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colle...efections.html

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by bobber From the Chicago paper. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colle...efections.html

Another mention of Creighton, St Louis, and Dayton, although they say St Louis is in the MVC.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Field of 64 I have no connections or inside information, whatsoever. That being said, if I was in charge of either the conference or Fox Sports 1, I would absolutely bring together the Presidents/AD's of the 12 schools (hopefully including UD!) and announce the new members (staging them however they want for 2013 and 2014) at some point during the Big East tournament. Do it while all the Presidents/AD's are in New York for the Big East and A10 tournaments (with Creighton flying in since they're off this week), and do it when interest is highest (during the final "old" Big East tournament and with interest still running high from all the recent news).

That would be the perfect time to make the announcement. Then every time the brackets are discussed on Selection Sunday and throughout the Tournament the subject would most likely come up when any of those teams are discussed. Great publicity.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Another mention of Creighton, St Louis, and Dayton, although they say St Louis is in the MVC.

Yes, a rare slip up by Toni Ginnetti. Usually she doesn't make mistakes like that.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Field of 64 I have no connections or inside information, whatsoever. That being said, if I was in charge of either the conference or Fox Sports 1, I would absolutely bring together the Presidents/AD's of the 12 schools (hopefully including UD!) and announce the new members (staging them however they want for 2013 and 2014) at some point during the Big East tournament.

Basically the presidents and ADs are who's in charge of running the conference. I don't think they have agreed on exactly what they want to do yet. If they had, they'd be doing it.

[ruechalgrin]

Brett McMurphy from ESPN responding on twitter saying Dayton and St. Louis are solid as 11 and 12. See exchange below.

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
It's an oldie but … if it's white smoke Catholic 7 adding Butler, Xavier & Creighton; if gray smoke it's pulled pork
Expand
14 hrs Christian Gerard ‏@banditFFX
@McMurphyESPN Are Dayton and St.Louis solid as 11 & 12? That would mean Xavier ends up in East? Or could they go to 14 with VCU/Richmond/BU
Expand
14 hrs Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
@banditFFX Yes. And doubtful they would go past 12
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ruechalgrin]

Another exchange that is a little more murkey.

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
It's an oldie but … if it's white smoke Catholic 7 adding Butler, Xavier & Creighton; if gray smoke it's pulled pork
Expand
14 hrs K_Boy ‏@K_Boy
@McMurphyESPN Any news on Dayton and SLU for 12? Chance of that happening?
Expand
14 hrs Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
@K_Boy Most likely not until 2014
Hide conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More
7:41 AM - Mar 12, 2013 · Details

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 you didnt ask...or they didnt know?

They don't know. Pretty reliable about the announcement though.

[Medford]

posted w/o comment:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...cf0a0rZSxkf8IM

[Flyer11]

Holy crap (if true)!

Flyer11

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by Medford posted w/o comment: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...cf0a0rZSxkf8IM

I could get behind this.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hyde Park Flyer]

i think what shocks me the most is that it's definitive. nothing about rumors. nothing about a reliable source. it's just "here's the deal." gives me hope.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer i think what shocks me the most is that it's definitive. nothing about rumors. nothing about a reliable source. it's just "here's the deal." gives me hope.

Not "a source reports", or a blog,....just reported as factual.

Fercryinoutloud,.....C7 make the announcement already!

[zmz723]

Not sure why Creighton would wait when the MVC supposedly has no exit fees. Not buying it.

[Medford]

From a "what makes sense" point of view, I always found Creighton a little bit courios as the 10 member for a season, if the plan was always to get to 12 in 2 seasons. Sure they're strong in basketball, but they were already the outlier in terms of geography, even more so if they're one of 10, that was going to make travel for non revenue sports even more of a pain in the but for 1 season.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by zmz723 Not sure why Creighton would wait when the MVC supposedly has no exit fees. Not buying it.

It would make sense geographically for Creighton and SLU to join at the same time.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Radar]

My reaction is the author got his wires crossed between Creighton and Dayton regarding who joins next year and who joins 14-15. But I hope not!

[UD_Earl]

Wow - if so - I take everything back I have said about Wabler and UD on Twitter! WOW! UD Earl

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by zmz723 Not sure why Creighton would wait when the MVC supposedly has no exit fees. Not buying it.

Exit fees, no matter if its the 2 mil to get out of the A-10 or $50k to get out of the MVC should matter considering the reported $4mil+ per team in TV revenue. I'm not sure what the MVC makes on TV, but the increase in TV money for 1 season well offsets the A-10 exit fee.

If Creighton (or anyone for that matter) is waiting, even for 1 season, its not because it is their choice, but rather the choice of the C7.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by zmz723 Not sure why Creighton would wait when the MVC supposedly has no exit fees. Not buying it.

maybe they want to bring the two westernmost schools in at the same time? sort of as geographical partners? or maybe i have no clue?

[The Gem]

I question the veracity of UD joins X and Butler. It is an unattributed statement not even mentioning and unnamed source. It wouldn't surprise me that he got Creighton and Dayton confused. Since most of the article focuses on the Big East football school shake out, the reporter may well just have made a factual error due to laziness. I hope it's true though.

I emailed the reporter the following:

We here in Flyer Nation have been sweating this out for weeks. All the information we hear is that X, Butler ,and Creighton join next year and SLU and either Dayton or Richmond or Gonzaga join the following year. Can you provide any further insight as you are reporting Dayton is in as a matter of fact and haven't attributed it to even an unnamed source. I hope you are right. Thanks.

I will post any replies I get.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[flyerfanatic86]

For what it's worth, Pete Thamel did tweet this 4 days ago

@SIPeteThamel: Perhaps the biggest remaining question for Catholic 7 is 9 or 10 teams next year. As of now, not decided. Creighton/Dayton on edge.

Not sure if that was posted here previously, but this isn't the first time UD was rumored to join next season.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UD_Earl]

Geographically it makes complete sense. SLU and Creighton are pretty far west.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 It would make sense geographically for Creighton and SLU to join at the same time.

IMHO, it would make geographic sense to exclude Creighton.

For perspective and with rivalries in mind....

St. Louis to Creighton = 435 miles....
Dayton to Georgetown is only an extra 36 miles or 471 total.
Dayton to Marquette is 50 miles shorter than St. Louis to Creighton...385 miles...I've done the Marquette drive....it's long...and painful!
But a better comparison would be Dayton to Madison, WI which is only 8 miles further than St. Louis to Creighton...443 miles. Anyone here feel like roadtripping to Madison? Me, neither.

Creighton's closest rival isn't even within reasonable driving distance of them...which kinda makes them non-rivals.

Are there no quality teams east of Dayton that would be a better fit geographically and financially than Creighton???

[UACFlyer]

It makes sense to me for the C7 to make its announcement after the Big East and A10 tournaments...perhaps even after the NCAAs end.

I think that the C7 group doesn't want to do/say anything that interferes with or upsets/upstages in any way other conference's events/affairs, most notably, the A10.

The C7 decision will have a major impact on the A10 as is. Seems to me the "priests" will make every effort to avoid causing additional A10 angst.

[priceg75]

Let's all remember this is the New York Post talking here, too. I guess they're a paper and all, but they are a couple of alien stories away from being the National Enquirer. I wouldn't trust them as a source if they are the only source.

[dcflyer]

Although Lenn Robbins, the article's author, is certainly a well-known sports journalist.

[Radar]

He meant to report that a new pope has been elected?

[rollo]

Pope Fitz I ?

[Flyer69ers]

Maybe the UD / Xavier rivalry is so legendary they don't want it separated even for a year

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Let's all remember this is the New York Post talking here, too. I guess they're a paper and all, but they are a couple of alien stories away from being the National Enquirer. I wouldn't trust them as a source if they are the only source.

Actually, for the front half of the paper you're not far off the mark, but the sports section has always been a good one.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Flyer69ers Maybe the UD / Xavier rivalry is so legendary they don't want it separated even for a year

That did occur to me.

If this story is true, then it looks like the Dayton/Xavier rivalry will continue as a home and home next year.



The exit fees make me question the veracity of this story. It is going to cost $6 million to get Butler, Dayton, and Xavier in the c7 league next year.

zmz723 pointed out that Creighton's exit fee is very small, if not entirely nonexistent, compared to the A10 exit fee.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Let's all remember this is the New York Post talking here, too. I guess they're a paper and all, but they are a couple of alien stories away from being the National Enquirer. I wouldn't trust them as a source if they are the only source.

Take a guess who owns the NY Post? Rupert Murdoch.

Who owns Fox? Rupert Murdoch.

Normally I would agree with you, the Post isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but in this case they proabbaly have gotten the scoop first.

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by ud2 That did occur to me. If this story is true, then it looks like the Dayton/Xavier rivalry will continue as a home and home next year. The exit fees make me question the veracity of this story. It is going to cost $6 million to get Butler, Dayton, and Xavier in the c7 league next year. zmz723 pointed out that Creighton's exit fee is very small, if not entirely nonexistent, compared to the A10 exit fee.

But Dayton could volunteer to cover the 2 million themselves, when you figure the extra TV money, plus the extra fans this conference would put in seats, and extra concessions because season ticket holders and students would actually use their seats.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[sopaw10]

I'll take the Post over the Times any day of the week.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Take a guess who owns the NY Post? Rupert Murdoch. Who owns Fox? Rupert Murdoch.

You're right, I didn't consider that connection.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Take a guess who owns the NY Post? Rupert Murdoch. Who owns Fox? Rupert Murdoch. Normally I would agree with you, the Post isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but in this case they proabbaly have gotten the scoop first.

Does any Prider have sufficient media creds to call the Post writer to ensure that the names "Dayton" and "Creighton" were not inadvertently swicthed.....without insulting the guy?

Mistakes like that occurred in past reporting of this matter.

Just asking.

[31770]

Funny, NBC sports is reporting the Robbins story

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...xavier-dayton/

[djmark54]

IS this true

http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/college...cf0a0rZSxkf8IM

[udscott]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...cf0a0rZSxkf8IM

[FlyerFanatic08]

@ESPNAndyKatz: Departing new Big East presidents briefing ADs today in NYC about exit terms, expansion, commish & other plans


its getting real...

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer It makes sense to me for the C7 to make its announcement after the Big East and A10 tournaments...perhaps even after the NCAAs end.

I don't think it would make much sense to make the announcement AFTER the NCAA Tournament. They would miss out on a lot of free publicity that would take place during the tournament. There will be several BE-12 teams in the tournament. The new conference would probably be mentioned/discussed every time one of those teams played (unless the announcers were directed not to discuss it since it will be on a different network).

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Dayton to Marquette is 50 miles shorter than St. Louis to Creighton...385 miles...I've done the Marquette drive....it's long...and painful!

I've done the drive to Marquette too, that's probably about a 6 hour drive?

And there is no direct route from St. Louis to Omaha. I think that drive is around 7 or 7.5 hours.

Originally Posted by rollo Are there no quality teams east of Dayton that would be a better fit geographically and financially than Creighton???

Other than the schools that have already been mentioned, such as Richmond, VCU, and maybe George Mason and Siena, I can't think of any, can you?

IMO, there are only a small number of quality, non-BCS schools that fit the geographic profile that the c7 are looking for.

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 But Dayton could volunteer to cover the 2 million themselves, when you figure the extra TV money, plus the extra fans this conference would put in seats, and extra concessions because season ticket holders and students would actually use their seats.

I agree, if they can buy their way in right now by paying the $2 million fee themselves, then IMO, they should definitely do that. IMO, the $2 million fee would be a small price to pay over the longer term.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by 31770 Funny, NBC sports is reporting the Robbins story http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...xavier-dayton/

You gotta love how it almost appears as though NBC is stunned that Dayton is mentioned for 2013.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I don't think it would make much sense to make the announcement AFTER the NCAA Tournament. They would miss out on a lot of free publicity that would take place during the tournament. There will be several BE-12 teams in the tournament. The new conference would probably be mentioned/discussed every time one of those teams played (unless the announcers were directed not to discuss it since it will be on a different network).

I'd be shocked if they waited beyond final 4 weekend. I kind of thought they'd do it yesterday prior to the Big East tournament, but since that has happened, next tuesday is making a lot of sense. They hype surrounding selection sunday and bracket monday will have died down a bit. If Dayton is included as part of the announcement, you get an immediate showcase for the new conference.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Does any Prider have sufficient media creds to call the Post writer to ensure that the names "Dayton" and "Creighton" were not inadvertently swicthed.....without insulting the guy? Mistakes like that occurred in past reporting of this matter. Just asking.

I have zero cred...not even on this board, but I sent him an email anyway! Didn't insult him, just wondered how the speculation of Creighton being #10 changed to him reporting that Dayton IS #10.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by Radar You gotta love how it almost appears as though NBC is stunned that Dayton is mentioned for 2013.

Almost like you could hear him choking back vomit.

[udstevied_D87]

Listening to 660 in NY and Vin Parise from NBC Sports Net still reporting Xavier, butler creighton in first then dayton and st. louis to follow.

Who knows the truth

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD_Earl]

The Post article has been updated several times since it was first posted. I am sure if the Creighton/Dayton was a Typo - it would have been fixed by now. NY Post is reporting that it is UD - so it probably is. UD Eearl

[UD_Earl]

Irony is a funny thing. UC being left kind of high and dry. UD going to the Big East. Ha. Love it! UD Earl

[sheg]

Ud arena will be on TV 10 times next week. They can talk about the big east expansion many times. The color guy can draw in a big east logo over the a10 with the teleprompter. I've got to believe that if the report I'd true the announcement will happen right after this weekend.

[UD_Earl]

If this is true - for those of you that do not have season tix - you better get them now. They will probably add 1,000 new season ticket holders between now and next season. This would be an absolute boon to the University in many different ways.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Let's all remember this is the New York Post talking here, too. I guess they're a paper and all, but they are a couple of alien stories away from being the National Enquirer. I wouldn't trust them as a source if they are the only source.

i have said this same thing (well, i didn't mention an alien story) about the new york post. they certainly take privileges with "facts."

[FlyerFanatic08]

maybe robbins is trolling for page hits?

[TA111]

There is no reason for the post to "make" up the facts here. Why would they put a headline together with UD in it if they didn't have good reason? They have since updated the article and kept the headline the same. My guess is that adding Creighton by its lonesome way out in Omaha didn't make financial or geographic sense. There would be a lot of money spent on all the other Olympic sports to make one long distance trip.

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Almost like you could hear him choking back vomit.

I know we have been snake-bitten as a program but we need to curb the "small man's complex". I didn't sense this at all in the NBC article

[Hyde Park Flyer]

the ny post has quite an incentive to run a story first...money. their advertisers are motivated by the number of people who visit their website. breaking a story creates a lot of internet traffic. i'm not sure that they'll have a significant increase in newspaper sales, but clicks do equal cash.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by TA111 There is no reason for the post to "make" up the facts here. Why would they put a headline together with UD in it if they didn't have good reason? They have since updated the article and kept the headline the same. My guess is that adding Creighton by its lonesome way out in Omaha didn't make financial or geographic sense. There would be a lot of money spent on all the other Olympic sports to make one long distance trip.

You're right.

But, see if Creighton's inclusion makes any more sense to you after seeing this....

http://www.creighton.edu/office-of-the-president

http://www.marquette.edu/about/leadership/lannon.shtml


If for whatever reason the links aren't working. Creighton's current president is also currently on Marquette's board of trustees.

Marquette is pushing hard for Creighton. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

[udstevied_D87]

He was stating it as fact on the radio show, but it's just his call i guess.

Vin Parise ‏@VinParise
@SteveDevcich @JoeandEvan -- between those 2 for that slot. Both are very much still in play. Should be interesting....

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Radar You gotta love how it almost appears as though NBC is stunned that Dayton is mentioned for 2013.

Aren't we all?
This is a significant departure from conventional wisdom. Let's just hope it's true.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer the ny post has quite an incentive to run a story first...money. their advertisers are motivated by the number of people who visit their website. breaking a story creates a lot of internet traffic. i'm not sure that they'll have a significant increase in newspaper sales, but clicks do equal cash.

Not really. They have more digital inventory than they can sell as it is. Nearly all mass media sites do. More traffic just creates more ad inventory they can't sell. The incremental dollars for something like this would be virtually meaningless to an organization the size of The Post. And in the long run damage to reputation does far more harm - although in the larger picture this story isn't big enough to do that much damage.
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[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by Flyer69ers Maybe the UD / Xavier rivalry is so legendary they don't want it separated even for a year

Bingo----will FOX get more out of X playing Creighton or UD 2X's next year!

[bobber]

On the Marquette board a poster had an interesting insight. He said MU and Creighton are both booked into the same exempt tournament next year, and NCAA rules don't allow two teams from the same conference to participate in the same exempt event. Likely they have both signed the contract already.

Just a thought.

[FlyingArrow]

What about us or Xavier? Or Butler?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDDoug]

If they know the 12 there are many reasons they could change the order.

Bobber just noted one. Another is the C7 was willing to help with 2M of extra exit feed and not 3M. UD said they would pay all of their 2M. Geographic proximity. Creighton is really far for most of the schools without SLU. And another, perhaps the biggest is Fox. They need programming. They already have full rights to Creighton games. Getting UD instead gets them in control of the rights to more games.

If true, in reality it is probably all if that and more.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TA111]

Good find Bobber. You're right 2 schools can't compete from same conf. This along with many other factors may set Creighton back until 2014.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by bobber On the Marquette board a poster had an interesting insight. He said MU and Creighton are both booked into the same exempt tournament next year, and NCAA rules don't allow two teams from the same conference to participate in the same exempt event. Likely they have both signed the contract already. Just a thought.

If that is the reason why, that is as unlikely a scenario as Fordham winning its first road game since 2009 against St. Bonaventure last week...

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow What about us or Xavier? Or Butler?

No way. Those two are in based on court results. Fox probably says no deal without those two.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Medford]

No one from the future Big East is in Mauii next season (well except for hopefully Dayton) for whatever its worth.

[bcross]

Both West Virginia and Oklahoma were in the Old Spice Classic this year. Both are from the Big 12.

[FlyerGuyer]

Butler, Dayton, Xavier to join Big East next season.

Best. Headline. Ever.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by bcross Both West Virginia and Oklahoma were in the Old Spice Classic this year. Both are from the Big 12.

I doubt that participation in an exempt tournament is going to sway the decision on which teams to add when. What is the worst that could happen? What if the team reneges? Are the penalties/consequences anywhere near as severe as the exit fees teams have to pay to leave their current conferences?

Even though rules do exist to prohibit conference mates from participating, this is a unique chicken-and-egg circumstance where the decision to play preceded to decision to be in the same conference. I am sure the tournament organizers and the conference can work together to come up with a creative solution, like making it so that the game is not an official conference game (like X-BU earlier this year).

[ud2]

If true, it will be interesting to have Purnell back at UD Arena.

Has UD ever played against a former UD head coach? I don't think that has ever happened.

[UDGRIZZ2010]

Matthew Schwade @FlyerHoops had someone say that FOX owns the NY Post.
I don't know if this carries any weight, but one of the @FlyerHoops subscribers pointed out that the NY Post is owned by Fox.
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