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04-30-2015, 07:08 PM
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I think Archie should wait a year when the top 5 job opens up in Tallahassee.
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04-30-2015, 07:16 PM
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No joke. Something needs to be said by Tim.
Seems as though right this hour would be the time that Tim issues the final dagger statement. Archie Miller has asked that his name be withdrawn from any job opening discussions at this time. Contract signed, simple. Right?
The silence will be getting louder now that the Thunder/Billy cards are on the table.
Who's watching the airport?
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04-30-2015, 07:23 PM
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That's what I said in post #370. Just end the speculation. The longer the delay, the more steam that the Rumor mill will gain.
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04-30-2015, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MDFlyer
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict most people on this board did not grow up on East Third Street and attend Dayton Public Schools
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Pretty safe bet when you mention a specific street, but I attended Dayton Public Schools. I do suspect I'm in the minority.
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04-30-2015, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2
That's what I said in post #370. Just end the speculation. The longer the delay, the more steam that the Rumor mill will gain.
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Thats fine but Donovan just committed to OKC so officially Fla has only been on the lookout for a new coach one day. Until things were official doubt there was much dialog with any decision makers. Most talk was done behind the scenes feeling out the options. Can't make an offer before the job is officially open.
Now having said that, its been 4 hours TW whats up!
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04-30-2015, 09:00 PM
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Does anybody have any knowledge of buyout verbiage in Archie's contract? I ask this because I feel most people, including the so called experts who are all over Twitter neglect to acknowledge that Florida just paid a record $7 million dollars to Colorado St. for their football coach. I have seen things on this board that hint that Archie's buyout clause is up in the high millions, meaning between $5 and $10 million. If this is true, UD and Wabler need to play hard ball with Florida like CSU did. McElwain's contract called for a $10 million dollar buyout. Even though McElwain really wanted the Florida job, CSU still demanded $5 million dollars up front and a $2 million "buy" game at Florida. If I'm Wabler, I say pay us $5 million and a home and home and you can have Archie, if he wants Florida.
Most schools cave and don't play hard ball like CSU did. I have a hard time believing Foley can go back to his President and Board of Trustees and ask for $5 million more dollars for a basketball coach when just three months ago he got approval for $7 million for the fan bases' darling and beloved football program.
Because of these economics, I believe Pelphrey and Grant are serious candidates as they would cost the school nothing other than the salary. Does Florida want Archie enough where the Board and President will okay another large buyout and pay Archie in excess of $4 million a year? That is a very large commitment for a sport that is far behind football in popularity.
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04-30-2015, 09:13 PM
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We all know that the back rooms and boardrooms are where business gets done. Florida wasn't blindsided by this change. They've been preparing for this for a while now. They're short list is probably VERY short.
Here at Dayton, Wabs has to have the pulse of these situations if he wants UD to be a legitimate player on the national scene. With that being said, silence speaks volumes for a nervous and long suffering fan base that has finally felt the sunshine of the NCAA tournament.
I believe that UD is at a very fragile stage. Archie is the linchpin. He "withdraws" his name from consideration early and Dayton is back in the spotlight as a place in the national discussion that maybe a great coach wants to be. If the process is drawn out, it will give more and more media outlets ammo to tell the sports consuming public why Dayton is not worth keeping a top flight coach.
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04-30-2015, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The definition of a 'major' program starts with the salary and (realistic) expectations of the head coach. UF pays a ton, expects a ton and achieves a what they've pay for.
Therefore, UF is a major job. No amount of spinning will change that.
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Then Dayton is a 'major' job using your self imposed definition. Please explain to me why a 'major' program has its fans outnumbered at least 3 to 1 in an elite 8 tourney game. You would certainly think a 'major' program would have a fan base that would travel in decent numbers to a big game.
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04-30-2015, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2
I believe that UD is at a very fragile stage. Archie is the linchpin. He "withdraws" his name from consideration early and Dayton is back in the spotlight as a place in the national discussion that maybe a great coach wants to be. If the process is drawn out, it will give more and more media outlets ammo to tell the sports consuming public why Dayton is not worth keeping a top flight coach.
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I understand your concern but I think Dayton can compete with Gainesville. Don't be afraid to let him talk with them. If he hears their sales pitch and turns it down, it speaks volumes. If he takes it, wish him well. I will!
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04-30-2015, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Look at what Bo Ryan has done at Wisconsin with a bunch of no-names and little history of basketball success. It is almost all about the coach, a great coach can have great success almost anywhere.
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Dick Bennett got them to a Final Four just prior to Ryan. Bennett's teams played stingy defense and really worked the ball around for a good shot on offense.
I loved watching Bennett's teams play, I'm not sure that I've seen a team play like them in a long while, their defense was awesome. They usually only gave you one shot, they gave up few offensive rebounds. So, whatever shot you took against them had better been a good shot because you weren't going to get a second chance. They would really frustrate opposing offenses.
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04-30-2015, 10:42 PM
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I hated watching Bennetts teams. I remember them scoring 32 in an NCAA tourney game.
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04-30-2015, 11:00 PM
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Get on the phone with Clay and get support for a cost plus 10 percent agreement.
Tell Archie we want him and will pay him above what UF offers. Emphasize we are basketball first (as if he needs reminding).
Let Archie decide. Play hardball with the Gators if he wants to go.
At the end of the day, every UD coach since Blackburn has gotten us to the NCAA tourney; all but Purnell won a game. Archie is important, but not paramount to UD Basketball success.
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04-30-2015, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2
I believe that UD is at a very fragile stage. Archie is the linchpin. He "withdraws" his name from consideration early and Dayton is back in the spotlight as a place in the national discussion that maybe a great coach wants to be. If the process is drawn out, it will give more and more media outlets ammo to tell the sports consuming public why Dayton is not worth keeping a top flight coach.
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Xavier couldn't keep Matta or Sean. Butler couldn't keep Stevens. VCU couldn't keep Smart . It's not unique to Dayton that a coach moves on. For any coach it's about advancing their career. If the fit is right and AM likes what he hears, he's leaving. I think it will be tough and awkward for AM to retain Pelphrey and Grant assuming he gets the HC gig. That said, I'm sure Billy wants Grant or Pelphrey to get the job. In the end, our program is better now than it has been in a decade. If AM moves on his replacement is inheriting a solid program that should bring some great candidates to the table.
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04-30-2015, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I think Archie should wait a year when the top 5 job opens up in Tallahassee.
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Your responses are great. Please, we want more. Moar!
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05-01-2015, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
I hated watching Bennetts teams. I remember them scoring 32 in an NCAA tourney game.
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I checked out Bennett's Wikipedia page and found this:
In 2014 NCAA Tournament, Bennett's influence as a defensive coach brought him fame; four teams in the Sweet Sixteen (Arizona, Dayton, Virginia and Wisconsin) focused on the Bennett designed Pack Line Man for Man defense.[18]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bennett#Legacy
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05-01-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111
Then Dayton is a 'major' job using your self imposed definition. Please explain to me why a 'major' program has its fans outnumbered at least 3 to 1 in an elite 8 tourney game. You would certainly think a 'major' program would have a fan base that would travel in decent numbers to a big game.
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By my criteria, UD is NOT a major job...Archie's salary is up there, but not in the stratosphere of UF...nor are our expectations as we're still trying to win the A10 this decade.
As for fans, you're confusing a passionate fan base with whether or not a program is 'major' or not. Western Ky fans travel like it's their business...so do Marshall football fans...neither fact makes them a major program in their sport.
Many fans of major basketball programs stay home during basketball season because the football season is their passion. tOSU is the closest and best example I can give as the Sugar Bowl and National Championship following demonstrates. Send tOSU to Portland for March Madness, and my son - who was at both FB games and Portland - will tell you there were very few Buckeye fans at the bball game. For the record, tOSU is a major bball team.
I don't put 'passionate fans' and 'major' program together although I understand your argument and agree its a factor.
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05-01-2015, 08:08 AM
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I tried to tell San Diego Flyer...
Florida fan: "I don't think Foley's done much to build up a program around Billy D to help attract a big time head coach to replace him either. The O'Dome is a piece of ****. Our basketball facilities are run of the mill."
Florida fan #2: "Well, please throw in that there are hardly any fans and it is pathetic that a team ranked #1 in the country cannot sell out that little POS O'dome. This is not a basketball school, nor will it ever be one. Billy was this program, so arguing over the next coach is pointless"
Florida fan #3: "He's a great overall athletic director. But he seems to have lost sight of just how disproportionately more important football is relative to every other sport the gators play."
Florida fan #4: "Actually, the current football situation has a higher stake in the claim than anything else. To argue otherwise is asinine and anyone with any sense whatsoever understands why. Football matters most. The rest of the sports don't operate without it. That fact alone backs my point and that's before you consider that football is by far the most popular sport in Florida and the most passionate fandom comes out of the football program at UF. ( generally speaking ) Interest in other sports is even affected by football success.
People are questioning why UF slipped so far infrastructure wise and how it's happened. Hell, our own new football coach came in and more or less told us we are in the Stone Age. Our departing coach said the same thing."
- florida.247sports.com "Jeremy Foley" thread
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05-01-2015, 08:10 AM
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Bennett was a great coach ... hated watching his teams play. I know he made the pack-line defense popular and attempted to turn games into rugby scrums.
I remember his name coming up as a possibility to replace JOB as he was still as UW-GB at the time.
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05-01-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The definition of a 'major' program starts with the salary and (realistic) expectations of the head coach. UF pays a ton, expects a ton and achieves a what they've pay for.
Therefore, UF is a major job. No amount of spinning will change that.
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Probably regarding UF, but it doesn't make it a GOOD major job. See UCLA.
http://www.businessinsider.com/highe...--97-million-1
Top 20 highest paid:
Duke
Louisville
UK
Kansas
Florida
Michigan St.
UCLA
tOSU
Memphis
Arizona
Texas
Michigan
Villanova
Oklahoma St.
Pitt
Wisconsin
Virginia
Oklahoma
Baylor
NC St.
So either Memphis, NC State, Pitt, Oklahoma State, and Baylor are major programs, or the difference in pay between #5 and #20 is so great that #20 isn't "really" trying, or their administration / fan base just likes spending $ with no realistic expectation of contending for a national title. I don't think AM would leave for any of these 5 schools with the possible exception of the one his extended family could attend by taking a city bus.
Interesting that Oklahoma is such a hotbed of major college hoops with 2 coaches making the top 20 list. The last time a team from the state of OK made it to the national championship game was 1988, before that 1946, 1947, and 1949. Yet their coaches make #14 and #18 on the list of top paid.
Also, #20 on this list makes $2.0M. What does AM make again based on his new extension? Is he very far off of that?
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05-01-2015, 08:49 AM
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I remember talking to Adam Waleskowski once...he said at his first FSU vs. Florida game, at Florida I believe, and the Florida fans all started doing the Gator Chomp thing with their arms and hands...that was when he knew this was big time...or he said something like that.
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05-01-2015, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Probably regarding UF, but it doesn't make it a GOOD major job. See UCLA.
http://www.businessinsider.com/highe...--97-million-1
Top 20 highest paid:
Duke
Louisville
UK
Kansas
Florida
Michigan St.
UCLA
tOSU
Memphis
Arizona
Texas
Michigan
Villanova
Oklahoma St.
Pitt
Wisconsin
Virginia
Oklahoma
Baylor
NC St.
So either Memphis, NC State, Pitt, Oklahoma State, and Baylor are major programs, or the difference in pay between #5 and #20 is so great that #20 isn't "really" trying, or their administration / fan base just likes spending $ with no realistic expectation of contending for a national title. I don't think AM would leave for any of these 5 schools with the possible exception of the one his extended family could attend by taking a city bus.
Interesting that Oklahoma is such a hotbed of major college hoops with 2 coaches making the top 20 list. The last time a team from the state of OK made it to the national championship game was 1988, before that 1946, 1947, and 1949. Yet their coaches make #14 and #18 on the list of top paid.
Also, #20 on this list makes $2.0M. What does AM make again based on his new extension? Is he very far off of that?
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2+ mill
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05-01-2015, 10:02 AM
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4/2/2015: "Donovan's base salary for the 2014-15 season was $4.2 million....The bonus structure of Donovan's contract will remain the same. He will earn $50,000 for winning an SEC regular season title, $25,000 for winning the SEC Tournament and $37,500 for reaching the NCAA Tournament, which can increase to $75,000 for reaching the Sweet 16, $100,000 for reaching the Final Four and $150,000 for winning a national title. Donovan's base salary from the university will remain $220,000, with the majority of his yearly salary coming from television, speaking and apparel deals."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...eases-to-4067m
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05-01-2015, 10:10 AM
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From Jon Rothstein:
"You never want to be the guy who follows The Guy and that's exactly what the next coach of Florida is going to be. The Gators' program had pockets of success prior to Donovan's arrival, highlighted by a trip to the 1994 Final Four under Lon Kruger, but several people in college basketball believe this job has been more about Donovan over the last two decades than about Florida itself. ith Donovan accepting the head coaching post with the Oklahoma City Thunder on Thursday, the prognosis is murky at best for the person who next coaches the Gators. Florida's talent base isn't nearly what it was during the height of Donovan's two-decade tenure at the school. In addition to Kentucky, schools such as LSU, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Mississippi State and Auburn have all shown a knack for regularly securing commitments from Top 100 prospects. Expectations are going to be sky high because Donovan led this program to four Final Fours in 19 years and a pair of national titles in 2006 and 2007. Reflecting that level of production isn't a likely reality for the next head coach."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ome-lucky-team
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05-01-2015, 10:34 AM
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Major General
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Stay
The Archie Miller era as head basketball coach of the University of Dayton Men's team is the best in the history of the school. His record is 90-47 (66%). He averages 22 wins per year. In his first four years at the helm he has produced two NCAA appearances and owns a 5-2 tournament record (71%). His recruits have been better players than those brought in by his predecessors. He has developed talent and expanded the player's skills and abilities. He is considered by his profession as one of the best offensive minds in college basketball and has the Ken/Pom data to support that belief. For Dayton Flyer Fans these are The Good Old Days. The Flyer Faithful prayers have finally been answered. As we view the 2015-16 season we see six new scholarship players being added to the roster which loses a future Flyer Hall of Fame caliber starter in Jordan Sibert. We must wear sun glasses when we view the upcoming season. While being shunned by the so-called media experts in the pre-season polls the Dayton Partisans who follow college basketball very closely just know that Archie and
the team will provide the next chapter of Flyer success.
To Archie we all sing in voices as loud as we can muster the words of Jackson Brown and the Four Seasons... STAY...Just a little bit longer!
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05-01-2015, 10:59 AM
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Florida was paying BD 4 million a year because he brought 4 final fours and two national titles to UF and they wanted to keep him there. That's not the same as what the job will pay then next hire. AM has done great things for UD the last
2 seasons but the question is what would UF offer him if they choose to offer.
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05-01-2015, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
Pretty safe bet when you mention a specific street, but I attended Dayton Public Schools. I do suspect I'm in the minority.
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Yeah, I was referring to the East Third Street area. I specifically grew up on Monmonth St., which was a nightmare in the 80s.
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05-01-2015, 11:29 AM
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folks are using the term "candidate" a bit loosely. until florida asks permission, UD grants it, and Archie confirms interest, he is simply a target ... willfully under contract at the University of Dayton.
worst case scenario, if he were to leave, would the incoming class be released from their LOI's?
let's be optimistic and take Archie at his word. GO FLYERS
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05-01-2015, 11:32 AM
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Caught between rock and hard place.
We have had minor successful HC's and most of the time they left for someplace else as a surprise or gently with little previous discussion in the media.
We have had a HC who we would of liked someone to take off our hands.
Now we have a HC that seems to always be in the media spotlight as a prime candidate. This is caused by the notoriety said HC and program generate during very successful seasons.
So what would you prefer?
High levels of success or not so much?
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05-01-2015, 11:56 AM
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General
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I don't think anyone here is saying we would prefer bad coaches so we can keep them forever. It doesn't make the pain any less when they leave.
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05-01-2015, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue
worst case scenario, if he were to leave, would the incoming class be released from their LOI's?
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I would not blame Archie if he decides to go to UF, but my fear is the effect that it would have on UD's team roster. If all the incoming freshmen decide to go elsewhere (and are released from their LOIs), UD could be in a world of hurt and not recover fully for several seasons. Usually, new college coaches are named at the beginning of April -- if we have to replace Archie now, the new coach will be behind schedule from all his peers on recruiting. We could be short on the number of people playing on the team next year if new freshmen decide to leave.
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05-01-2015, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ud86
I would not blame Archie if he decides to go to UF, but my fear is the effect that it would have on UD's team roster. If all the incoming freshmen decide to go elsewhere (and are released from their LOIs), UD could be in a world of hurt and not recover fully for several seasons. Usually, new college coaches are named at the beginning of April -- if we have to replace Archie now, the new coach will be behind schedule from all his peers on recruiting. We could be short on the number of people playing on the team next year if new freshmen decide to leave.
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Yes, but at this late date, most rosters for next year are full, so recruits that leave UD may not have many options, AM leaving this late is a two way street.
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05-01-2015, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
From Jon Rothstein:
"You never want to be the guy who follows The Guy and that's exactly what the next coach of Florida is going to be. The Gators' program had pockets of success prior to Donovan's arrival, highlighted by a trip to the 1994 Final Four under Lon Kruger, but several people in college basketball believe this job has been more about Donovan over the last two decades than about Florida itself. ith Donovan accepting the head coaching post with the Oklahoma City Thunder on Thursday, the prognosis is murky at best for the person who next coaches the Gators. Florida's talent base isn't nearly what it was during the height of Donovan's two-decade tenure at the school. In addition to Kentucky, schools such as LSU, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Mississippi State and Auburn have all shown a knack for regularly securing commitments from Top 100 prospects. Expectations are going to be sky high because Donovan led this program to four Final Fours in 19 years and a pair of national titles in 2006 and 2007. Reflecting that level of production isn't a likely reality for the next head coach."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ome-lucky-team
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Good points. Obviously Kentucky is the cream of the conference. Auburn will be a program to really watch. But any of the other programs mentioned above would have the same type issues with a coaching change and there are other SEC programs capable of moving up quickly with the right coach.
We will also be faced with finding the right guy to follow The Guy if Archie leaves. Fortunately it would be a better job now than it has been in the lifetime of many of the posters on this board. But it's no guarantee. The timeframe of our recent success is still short but clearly the potential can be seen.
FWIW Archie was discussed quite a bit on the radio down here this morning. Obviously the host and co-host had to have differing opinions because it's in the handbook. But the overall tenor was positive toward Archie and the resistance probably token. The guy that follows The Guy discussion was the primary topic. Hosts and callers seemed to feel that Donovan made it a good job but that it would be very attractive because the overall sustained success of the program. They did allude to Jeremy Foley and Donovan not being overly tight which I don't recall hearing previously. (For the X haters... neither were enamored with Mack).
Hopefully, Archie is approached. Politely declines and we can all exhale comfortably.
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05-01-2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Yes, but at this late date, most rosters for next year are full, so recruits that leave UD may not have many options, AM leaving this late is a two way street.
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most teams have no problem opening a roster spot if they don't have one.
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05-01-2015, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Yes, but at this late date, most rosters for next year are full, so recruits that leave UD may not have many options, AM leaving this late is a two way street.
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I think we would be surprised at how many schools have scholarships unfilled.
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05-01-2015, 12:48 PM
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If Archie declines, I doubt we ever hear anything. No reason to embarass Florida with a public rebuke, and no reason for them to let it be known they were rejected. My guess is if Archie says thanks but no thanks, you will just stop hearing his name rumored with the job.
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05-01-2015, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MDFlyer
Yeah, I was referring to the East Third Street area. I specifically grew up on Monmonth St., which was a nightmare in the 80s.
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Funny thing...I grew up on Sperling Ave and went to Holy Family in the 80's...sounds like we chewed some of the same dirt. I didn't realize how bad it was back then until we moved my senior year at CJ to the Burgess Ave. area of Dayton. And then after I met my future wife we lived in Englewood to this day.
I still go back that way every now and then to remind myself that while I might not have as much as others, I ain't doin' too bad! You thought it was bad then....at least we could safely walk to WW Mac for candy without being part of a gang initiation ritual unlike now....
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05-01-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
I think we would be surprised at how many schools have scholarships unfilled.
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
most teams have no problem opening a roster spot if they don't have one.
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I guess...maybe it is more accurate to say that they won't have as many options vs. AM leaving earlier.
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05-01-2015, 01:07 PM
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Not wanting to be presumptious or pessimistic which of the assistant coaches on UD would likely to be considered as head coach if Archie would leave? )By the way I bet he stays).
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05-01-2015, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud86
I would not blame Archie if he decides to go to UF, but my fear is the effect that it would have on UD's team roster. If all the incoming freshmen decide to go elsewhere (and are released from their LOIs), UD could be in a world of hurt and not recover fully for several seasons. Usually, new college coaches are named at the beginning of April -- if we have to replace Archie now, the new coach will be behind schedule from all his peers on recruiting. We could be short on the number of people playing on the team next year if new freshmen decide to leave.
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Agree with this. The timing would be unfortunate since UD is reliant on a large incoming class to get the numbers to where they should be. If you're going to lose a coach you don't want to lose, it's better to lose him during a year when you have a small-ish incoming recruiting class.
The reality is that no matter who would replace Archie if he left, some of the class will go elsewhere. A new coach might find some guys to take those spots even this late in the recruiting cycle, but it'll be a scramble, and when you scramble, you're more likely to add to the roster with a guy who quite frankly isn't good enough.
Plenty of time for 2016 recruiting still, but I would expect Dayton to have a very thin roster again next year if, heaven forbid, Archie left.
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05-01-2015, 01:46 PM
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05-01-2015, 01:58 PM
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The silence from the university is deafening.
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05-01-2015, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
The silence from the university is deafening.
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It's an interesting situation for Wabler and Miller.
If this were about a freshman stud who was considering a jump to the NBA, it's Miller's responsibility to make sure that the player understands his options/position in the NBA draft and, if it's obvious he's going to be a Top 10 pick, recommend he leave UD for the draft as it's in his best interest (tOSU and Matta just went thru this with De'Angelo Russell...and encouraged him to go pro...which was the right decision for Russell but not at all for tOSU).
Does Wabler take the same stance with Miller? Would Wabler stand in Miller's way of moving up knowing that when Miller was hired he would in all likelihood move up? Or does Wabler have to do everything in his power to hold back Miller's 'corporate ladder climb' in the name of UD's best interests.
Holding back a player would be bad for recruiting.
Would doing all you can to hold back Miller be bad for UD's hunt for it's next coach?
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05-01-2015, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
The silence from the university is deafening.
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If Wabler talks to Archie and is told he is not interested in Florida, what do you expect him to do with that information? Hold a press conference that your coach is still your coach? There is no benefit to taking a public shot at another school by announcing your guy isn't interested in a job that hasn't been publicly offered to your guy, especially if you know your guy is staying. Just sit on it until they hire somebody else. The only people who need to know are the team and recruits, and Archie can communicate with them himself.
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05-01-2015, 02:29 PM
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last year and this year when Archies name has been associated with other openings there has been no statement from either one of them, I would expect this to be the same. If a meeting or interview were to take place between UF and Archie I am sure we would hear about it.
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05-01-2015, 02:30 PM
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My Gator tennis partner confirmed this morning that Arch is their #1 target. That infers nothing about whether Florida is Archie's #1 target. The fact that the airwaves are quiet is not a coincidence. Smart minds are thinking this out.
I agree with the post that said if Florida and Miller don't connect for whatever reason, you likely won't hear anything. The next sound you hear will probably be Florida announcing the new coach, whomever that will be.
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05-01-2015, 02:48 PM
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we will most likely hear about it when they meet with someone. Almost impossible to keep this stuff under wraps.
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05-01-2015, 02:55 PM
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If you really want to start biting your fingernails over this one you can periodically check the flight tracking sites like flightaware for flights between Gainesville and Dayton. Once you find a private flight between Gainesville and Dayton then everyone can go into full on nuclear melt down mode.
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05-01-2015, 03:12 PM
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05-01-2015, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
It's an interesting situation for Wabler and Miller.
If this were about a freshman stud who was considering a jump to the NBA, it's Miller's responsibility to make sure that the player understands his options/position in the NBA draft and, if it's obvious he's going to be a Top 10 pick, recommend he leave UD for the draft as it's in his best interest (tOSU and Matta just went thru this with De'Angelo Russell...and encouraged him to go pro...which was the right decision for Russell but not at all for tOSU).
Does Wabler take the same stance with Miller? Would Wabler stand in Miller's way of moving up knowing that when Miller was hired he would in all likelihood move up? Or does Wabler have to do everything in his power to hold back Miller's 'corporate ladder climb' in the name of UD's best interests.
Holding back a player would be bad for recruiting.
Would doing all you can to hold back Miller be bad for UD's hunt for it's next coach?
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I've been in this situation before and the answer is rarely this clear. You do a disservice to the coach if you don't openly discuss the pros and cons, but let's make no mistake about it there are cons to taking the job. If AM was coaching at some community college that's just about to cut funding for the basketball program it's clear cut, but UD to UF -- while there are certainly pros -- is not that clear cut.
In the end you are a poor manager (and human being) if you stand in the way of someone's career who has sound reasoning to go in a different direction.
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05-01-2015, 03:29 PM
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The last football coach search conducted by Florida was not very discreet. This is much more in line with an OSU search than with a UD search.
I don't think the basketball search will be discreet either. I suspect that if they come after Archie it will leak out on the Florida side. If he declines, it will likely be passed off as just due diligence unless he considers then declines then I think it will leak. I think the only way it happens discreetly is if it happens very quickly. That wasn't the expectation I heard today on the radio... which was taken with the customary grain of salt.
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05-01-2015, 03:35 PM
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If Florida pursues Archie and he says "No thanks", the Gators will have to move lower on the basketball food chain and talk to Chris Mack at Xavier. How 'bout them apples?
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05-01-2015, 03:46 PM
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I checked Morgan Millers Twitter and she is currently somewhere on the beach. I know Gainesville isn't on the coast, but the coast isn't far. She posted a picture of 'Hidy Holler South' wherever that is?
I got nervous.
I check Archie's Twitter. Archie tweeted a picture about 30m ago of his daughter eating Bill's Donuts. So we know he isn't (currently) in Florida.
I got less nervous. But I'm still nervous.
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05-01-2015, 03:52 PM
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AM has to do what is best for AM. 2 scenarios with a future AM departure...
AM leaves...no one in house to carry on what he started. CTRL+ALT+DEL. I would be severely ****ed off.
AM leaves...the program is primed for future success...in house candidate takes the opening...recruits stay committed...success carries on. I am happy.
This isn't just something that AM needs to be focused on, this needs to be something that the powers of UD need to demand. UD can't afford to start over and potentially fall on their face due to poor preparation for the future.
Maybe we can just hope that AM is as happy as what he says he is, the pay is right, he doesn't want to ship his kids to another school, and he stays for a long, long time...
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05-01-2015, 04:17 PM
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Here's what the Gator Faithful think, so far:
Who do you prefer as our next basketball coach?
John Pelphrey 5 vote(s) 3.9%
Anthony Grant, UF 6 vote(s) 4.7%
Richard Pitino, Minnesota 2 vote(s) 1.6%
Greg Marshall, Wichita State 20 vote(s) 15.7%
Archie Miller, Dayton 76 vote(s) 59.8%
Chris Mack, Xavier 6 vote(s) 4.7%
Fred Hoiberg, Iowa State 1 vote(s) 0.8%
Larry Krystowiak, Utah 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Scott Drew, Baylor 2 vote(s) 1.6%
Other 9 vote(s) 7.1%
From: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...-coach.316212/
Michael White from LA Tech is also being mentioned.
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05-01-2015, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
It's an interesting situation for Wabler and Miller.
Does Wabler take the same stance with Miller? Would Wabler stand in Miller's way of moving up knowing that when Miller was hired he would in all likelihood move up? Or does Wabler have to do everything in his power to hold back Miller's 'corporate ladder climb' in the name of UD's best interests.
Holding back a player would be bad for recruiting.
Would doing all you can to hold back Miller be bad for UD's hunt for it's next coach?
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I honestly do not know how Wabler could stand in Miller's way. Do you mean refusing to allow him to break the contract with UD without the requisite compensation being paid? or a lesser amount? What else could he do?
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05-01-2015, 05:22 PM
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not sure I would characterize Wabler getting in Archie's way but UD and Archie have a contract and it was just extended and I'm sure it has something in it like Harbaugh's contract and someone has to pay it. Both sides negotiate but from UD's side I would have to think if they're paying Archie the kind of $'s we've heard reported then the buyout is probably a hefty 1. But UD won't stand in the way of Archie, the buyout will be negotiated to something everyone finds acceptable but this 1 would definitely be slanted in favor of UD. Just renewed a contract and a big state school pursuing so it will be cash and games.
New football coach Jim Harbaugh's seven-year contract with the Michigan, obtained by the Free Press on Friday, could be worth significantly more than $5.7million in annual average and is almost fully guaranteed.
Perhaps of most interest to Michigan fans is Harbaugh's buyout. If Harbaugh were to leave early to, say, go back to the NFL, he would be responsible for the prorated amount of his signing bonus ($2 million). So if he were to leave after three years, he would owe four-sevenths of the $2 million ($1.14 million).
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05-01-2015, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan
I honestly do not know how Wabler could stand in Miller's way. Do you mean refusing to allow him to break the contract with UD without the requisite compensation being paid? or a lesser amount? What else could he do?
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He could deny Archie the interview....unless it's one of the stipulated U's he's identified in his contract as a deal-breaker.
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05-01-2015, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
My Gator tennis partner confirmed this morning that Arch is their #1 target. That infers nothing about whether Florida is Archie's #1 target. The fact that the airwaves are quiet is not a coincidence. Smart minds are thinking this out.
I agree with the post that said if Florida and Miller don't connect for whatever reason, you likely won't hear anything. The next sound you hear will probably be Florida announcing the new coach, whomever that will be.
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If Fl announces someone other than AM as their next coach you can be assured that he turned them down. You don't need an announcement to figure that one out.
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05-01-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
So here is what Archie said:
“It’s very humbling. It’s a privilege to coach at a place like this,” Miller said in March about his new contract. “Me and my family feel really grateful. (Athletic Director) Tim (Wabler) has been outstanding to work with. There’s not a day that’s gone by that we haven’t had everything we need to be successful. One of the big reasons we are successful is because of our administration. When you add that up, it always feels good to be at a place that wants you. That’s how we feel.”
Where in that paragraph did he say," I would not leave Dayton even if one of the top 5 basketball programs offered me a huge contract".
All you do is change "It's very humbling" to "It has been very humbling". Every thing else in that paragraph could be an exit speech.
Just pray it isn't now.
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How about the following: "I plan on being here a long time. That's my goal. I love what we're doing."
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05-01-2015, 08:14 PM
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If you are successful at this level this is what happens. If your program is successful you move on and keep winning.
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05-01-2015, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 224
I checked Morgan Millers Twitter and she is currently somewhere on the beach. I know Gainesville isn't on the coast, but the coast isn't far. She posted a picture of 'Hidy Holler South' wherever that is?
I got nervous.
I check Archie's Twitter. Archie tweeted a picture about 30m ago of his daughter eating Bill's Donuts. So we know he isn't (currently) in Florida.
I got less nervous. But I'm still nervous.
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Heidi's Hollow is an ice cream shop in Hanson, MA. That is a thousand miles from Gainesville!
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05-01-2015, 09:42 PM
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First things first...I love having AM as our coach. But if I am Florida I look at his resume and am concerned that he hasn't won anything. No conference regular season titles, no conference tournament titles. Yes he has made an elite 8 run but aren't there coaches that Florida could attracts hat have won something?
Don't take this as sour grapes about our Flyers because I hope AM stays here for a long long time.
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05-01-2015, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
How about the following: "I plan on being here a long time. That's my goal. I love what we're doing."
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Goals change. We see it every day in business and sports. I want him to stay like everyone else. But I'm not going to demean him for what he has said just because a P5 program offers him something we can't.
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05-01-2015, 10:36 PM
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Archie has had quite a few issues off the court. (Kav, Scott, jalen etc). How much does that factor into Florida's decision? You can bet those three kids would have made national headlines at a place like Florida. Here at UD it's just a local story with a very friendly press at Florida you're under a bigger microscope.
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05-01-2015, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
The silence from the university is deafening.
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What would you have the university do?
They could:
A) Acknowledge the rumors and interest and further add fuel to the flame
B) Avoid public announcements altogether in order to somewhat insulate the university and program during the process, no matter the outcome
C) Publicly proclaim "We have not been contacted" just to see Miller agree to the UF job a week later
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05-01-2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gem City
Archie has had quite a few issues off the court. (Kav, Scott, jalen etc). How much does that factor into Florida's decision? You can bet those three kids would have made national headlines at a place like Florida. Here at UD it's just a local story with a very friendly press at Florida you're under a bigger microscope.
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No they wouldn't. UF had basketball players routinely get into trouble under Donovan.
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05-01-2015, 11:13 PM
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UF recruits high character guys like Aaron Hernandez. Character is strictly secondary in the SEC.. Come to think of it, that is a solid negative if I think I know Archie's integrity and character. He's not going to UF. He's not going to the SEC. I will eat my hat. Feels better the more I think this through. I think we're fine. I really do.
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05-02-2015, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem City
Archie has had quite a few issues off the court. (Kav, Scott, jalen etc). How much does that factor into Florida's decision? You can bet those three kids would have made national headlines at a place like Florida. Here at UD it's just a local story with a very friendly press at Florida you're under a bigger microscope.
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Kav was a BG recruit and was out of control well before Archie got to UD.
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05-02-2015, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago92
First things first...I love having AM as our coach. But if I am Florida I look at his resume and am concerned that he hasn't won anything. No conference regular season titles, no conference tournament titles. Yes he has made an elite 8 run but aren't there coaches that Florida could attracts hat have won something?
Don't take this as sour grapes about our Flyers because I hope AM stays here for a long long time.
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Nobody remembers who won conference titles, etc. People remember what you do in the NCAA tournament, when it counts.
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05-02-2015, 08:09 AM
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According to Matt Schwade at FlyerHoops.net the UF Rivals site says that Chris Mack has been contacted. Went to the site and saw a thread with that title but it was premium content.
Did not see an "Archie Miller has been contacted" thread.
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05-02-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
UF recruits high character guys like Aaron Hernandez. Character is strictly secondary in the SEC.. Come to think of it, that is a solid negative if I think I know Archie's integrity and character. He's not going to UF. He's not going to the SEC. I will eat my hat. Feels better the more I think this through. I think we're fine. I really do.
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Please tell me that you are on Ohio State football fan.
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05-02-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
Nobody remembers who won conference titles, etc. People remember what you do in the NCAA tournament, when it counts.
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There is no clearer example of that than the seasons we just had. We finished second in league play and second in the A10 Championship Tournament. And couldn't even buy a vote in the polls. Everything fueling our rise to national awareness was our E8 and our 5 wins in the NCAA's in 2 years. League play is very important, as are the year-end tournaments. But they are merely speed bumps you have to navigate to get the real national respect-- simply because you have to beat teams from other conferences who are often more revered by the press. And I would add, those are usually teams that won't schedule you in the regular season. Makes the wins doubly important.
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05-02-2015, 10:05 AM
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I would have the U handle this just like they are. Handle it discreetly with class, and don't release anything until the part that affects UD has reached a definite conclusion. Above all, don't read Message Board Threads (which I would imagine they don't). They are not in the business of tending to our anxiety.
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05-02-2015, 10:34 AM
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http://247sports.com/Article/Jerry-M...Frank-37061118
Let's have this happen. Lawrence Frank would be an excellent hire for the Gators.
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05-02-2015, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Goals change.
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In five weeks?
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05-02-2015, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows
According to Matt Schwade at FlyerHoops.net the UF Rivals site says that Chris Mack has been contacted. Went to the site and saw a thread with that title but it was premium content.
Did not see an "Archie Miller has been contacted" thread.
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http://florida.forums.rivals.com/for...gator-alley.8/
http://florida.forums.rivals.com/thr...ontacted.9951/
I just can't see Mack uprooting his young family, and I'm sure his kids don't want to move, plus both he and his wife are from this area I think, but you never know I guess.
Last edited by ud2; 05-02-2015 at 03:34 PM..
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05-02-2015, 04:09 PM
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Colonel
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I saw that picture of Lawrence Frank and I thought: I do believe that this is what Neil Patrick Harris might look like in 10 years if he becomes follicly challenged. Surely I'm not alone in this observation? (Yes, I'm trying to take our minds off of possibly losing Archie).
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05-02-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
In five weeks?
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Sorry, but in 5 days. More than ever, it's a bidness. Who would have thought Billy Donovan would get an opportunity to work with an ally like Sam Presti. That the Thunder would not make the playoffs. That Billy would change HIS mind with Florida. I really don't want Arch to go, but I think he will if the whole scenario feels right to him---and not just the money.
Right now, as we speak, Dayton is closer to a Final Four than Florida. Florida is a heck of a draw, but there is work to be done.
As far as Mack, I think he will run like a scalded dog to Gainesville if given the option.
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05-02-2015, 07:22 PM
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I have a theory. I think the high buy - out was Archie's idea. He doesn't want to be bothered with these rumors of other jobs while he is working on the important task of bringing championships to Dayton. In return he has the security of a good paycheck for as long as he wants it.
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05-02-2015, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
I have a theory. I think the high buy - out was Archie's idea. He doesn't want to be bothered with these rumors of other jobs while he is working on the important task of bringing championships to Dayton. In return he has the security of a good paycheck for as long as he wants it.
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Archie has no agent,this is all his own
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05-02-2015, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
I have a theory. I think the high buy - out was Archie's idea. He doesn't want to be bothered with these rumors of other jobs while he is working on the important task of bringing championships to Dayton. In return he has the security of a good paycheck for as long as he wants it.
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This is my hope as well. I am just so scared of the alternative. All speculation, of course, but do you really think VCU continues as they did under Shaka with this coach? It's the loss of momentum that comes with the loss of recruits and transfers that frightens me most.
I was 7 when in 84. That makes the '14 elite 8 my 30th season watching the Flyers. This is the best time I've had as an adult at the games...I don't want to give that up just yet.
Archie is a man with a wife and family. He must do what he thinks is best for he and his. But my selfish heart isn't willing to take a step back. I've seen the mountainto, an I like the view.
Please Arch, give us a decade and see where we are...then make your decision.
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05-02-2015, 08:42 PM
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I think it's almost inevitable that Archie moves on at some point. Guys like Mark Few are very rare. But I feel it's too soon for him to leave because he can still do more here. Florida is a great opportunity, but something better will come along for him and perhaps more in line with his roots (OSU for instance). Until that happens, I hope that he continues to build on what he's started, turns the program into a consistent contender, and most importantly puts into place a strong succession plan for when he departs.
And to continue on that pipe dream, it would be great if Florida was able to snag Mack from Xavier.
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05-02-2015, 09:27 PM
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If UF want's AM he is gone. PERIOD!
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05-02-2015, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7
If UF want's AM he is gone. PERIOD!
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so much for human agency
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05-02-2015, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05
I think it's almost inevitable that Archie moves on at some point. Guys like Mark Few are very rare. But I feel it's too soon for him to leave because he can still do more here. Florida is a great opportunity, but something better will come along for him and perhaps more in line with his roots (OSU for instance). Until that happens, I hope that he continues to build on what he's started, turns the program into a consistent contender, and most importantly puts into place a strong succession plan for when he departs.
And to continue on that pipe dream, it would be great if Florida was able to snag Mack from Xavier.
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Something better than Florida, like OSU? Maybe for you, but Archie is from Pittsburgh and his wife is from North Carolina. Not much difference in the success of those two programs. For Archie they are both big football schools.
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05-02-2015, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7
If UF want's AM he is gone. PERIOD!
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Not how it works. UF offers. Archie has the last say if he even chooses to listen. Now maybe if it were you. If UF offers, You would be gone. Archie still gets to choose
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05-02-2015, 10:08 PM
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05-02-2015, 10:33 PM
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Nice..Finally an article without his name mentioned. If that just came out things are seeming to trend toward the good on the UF front. If so, on to the next battle.
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05-02-2015, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by chicago92
First things first...I love having AM as our coach. But if I am Florida I look at his resume and am concerned that he hasn't won anything. No conference regular season titles, no conference tournament titles. Yes he has made an elite 8 run but aren't there coaches that Florida could attracts hat have won something?
Don't take this as sour grapes about our Flyers because I hope AM stays here for a long long time.
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Archie has had the best 2 year run in the last 50 years of UD basketball-- since the late 1960s. 5 NCAA games in 2 years -- one of the top 10-15 NCAA win totals over the last years.
All about NCAA appearances and wins.
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05-02-2015, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon7
If UF want's AM he is gone. PERIOD!
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Archie may very well go with a UF offer, but not a foregone conclusion. He may wait for a top 10 program -- UF is top 20, but not top 10. I would be surprised if he doesn't leave over the next 5 years, but hoping he stays a few more.
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05-03-2015, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
Pretty safe bet when you mention a specific street, but I attended Dayton Public Schools. I do suspect I'm in the minority.
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I taught and coached there for 35 years
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05-03-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cralford
Not how it works. UF offers. Archie has the last say if he even chooses to listen. Now maybe if it were you. If UF offers, You would be gone. Archie still gets to choose
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To save face, no coach gets an offer unless the school knows they will accept. Post-interview, after some small talk, it goes something like this:
UF AD: So Coach 1, if offered the job as our head coach would you accept?
Coach 1: No I wouldn't as my school is just too important to me as well as the commitment I've made. But thanks for the interview and good luck.
UF AD: So Coach 2, if offered the job as our head coach, would you accept?
Coach 2: Yuuup.
UF AD: GREAT! Becasue after much consideration we are offering you the job....Congratulations, you're our first and only offer! Sign here.
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05-03-2015, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
To save face, no coach gets an offer unless the school knows they will accept. Post-interview, after some small talk, it goes something like this:
UF AD: So Coach 1, if offered the job as our head coach would you accept?
Coach 1: No I wouldn't as my school is just too important to me as well as the commitment I've made. But thanks for the interview and good luck.
UF AD: So Coach 2, if offered the job as our head coach, would you accept?
Coach 2: Yuuup.
UF AD: GREAT! Becasue after much consideration we are offering you the job....Congratulations, you're our first and only offer! Sign here.
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That's true in the majority of cases, but there have been MANY instances where it was known Coach A or B spurned an offer. Everyone here knows Mike Deane was offered the top spot at UD but then said no to take the job at Marquette. Enter Oliver Purnell. It happened in the reverse last year when Marquette lost Buzz Williams and was publicly rejected a time or two before tapping the Duke tree. There's a difference between "saving face" and the reality of what is known.
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05-03-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisSFlyer
Funny thing...I grew up on Sperling Ave and went to Holy Family in the 80's...sounds like we chewed some of the same dirt. I didn't realize how bad it was back then until we moved my senior year at CJ to the Burgess Ave. area of Dayton. And then after I met my future wife we lived in Englewood to this day.
I still go back that way every now and then to remind myself that while I might not have as much as others, I ain't doin' too bad! You thought it was bad then....at least we could safely walk to WW Mac for candy without being part of a gang initiation ritual unlike now....
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ChrisSFlyer, I hear ya. I live near Burgess now, and I grew up in the 70's down around the Santa Clara area. And while the Burgess area is showing some signs of change, it's nothing like my old neighborhood, which is now truly The 'Hood. I went Dayton Public for K-8, then went to CJ for HS. My cousin & I used to walk to each other's houses (he lived in the Grafton area) for our games of whiffle ball, and then we'd go to a local convenience store to blow our allowance on baseball cards & Slurpees. No way you'd let a couple of 10 year olds do that down there today.
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05-03-2015, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Something better than Florida, like OSU? Maybe for you, but Archie is from Pittsburgh and his wife is from North Carolina. Not much difference in the success of those two programs. For Archie they are both big football schools.
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Not sure what this has to do with me Jack. I cited Ohio State as a potentially better fit for Archie not because the Buckeyes' program is superior to Florida, but that the two schools are very similar, Archie has coached at OSU before, and it would offer him the opportunity to not have to make a huge change in leaving the Midwest.
I'm fully aware of his ties to Pittsburgh (the city) and North Carolina (particularly NC State), but none of the options in those areas are as similar to Florida as Ohio State is (in terms of being extremely deep-pocketed schools that have high levels of success in both football and basketball).
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05-03-2015, 09:05 AM
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Interesting in that both archie miller and chris mack dropped from
Goodmans list from 4 days previous which was posted on twitter
espncbb
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05-03-2015, 09:34 AM
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I spent part of a beautiful Saturday afternoon reading a Florida message board. The overwhelming majority want Archie, but they believe he is making from 350,000 to 750,000. With very few exceptions, they believe 3 mil is out of the question (and 2mil too high):
-It would put him on par with the football coach,
-No one without a final four on their resume would/should get "Donovan territory" money.
-Texas set the bar with Shaka at 1.7mil
-It is more than his "more accomplished" brother gets at Arizona, etc. etc.
I hope the Florida athletic director is thinking like these fans, because if he is, Archie won't be leaving because of money.
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05-03-2015, 12:16 PM
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Goodman on ESPN just said that Miller and Mack are the frontrunners.
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05-03-2015, 03:23 PM
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One layup made and then one missed vs OSU, and one more loss this past season and AM is not on the list for any "Big Job".
And he's exactly the same coach, gnat's a$$ of just being the little brother of Sean, and maybe being a pretty good coach one day.
UD could miss the dance the next few year's and he will be pretty much off the radar.
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