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  #1  
Old 03-31-2015, 08:03 PM
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Out Of Conference Schedule

According to Greg Doyle, Butler and UC agreed to home and home with 2015-2016 at UC and 2016-2017 at Butler.

I would have thought UD would have been a more natural fit for both schools.

Lack of top 50 wins almost doomed UD in 2014-2015, would love to see UD upgrade its non-con schedule. I understand loss of revenue, but with NCAA credits, I am hopeful we can take one less home game th next years (while still paying Archie).

Yes, I realize still need other top 50 schools to agree. Yes, Arkansas and Ole Miss a good start.

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Old 03-31-2015, 08:13 PM
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Should try to get a home and home with NC State. Because NC State can't say no, or they'll risk ****ing Archie off. And sooner or later, they know Archie is going to be their first call when they need a coach. May as we'll take advantage of the situation.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:34 PM
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Hope they really ramp it up. If there ever was a year to get some quality teams on the list it is this year. I know we should be seeing Arkansas make a return trip tot he arena and I believe Miami will be as well (can't contain my excitement :/) Not sure if we have any home-and-homes that we have to return? I know Ole miss was a return game and so was Georgia Tech I believe. I would love to see NC State and maybe some higher Mid Majors like Wichita (Orlando), UNI, Murray State, Gonzaga. The Orlando Tournament looks good as well as long as we don't draw Monmouth or USC.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:04 PM
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Another thing that I think that UD should do is stop scheduling regular 300+ RPI teams. If I recall correctly, we had Alabama A&M and another school that escapes me who were on our schedule who had a 300+ RPIs at the end of the year. If you see any analysis on how badly those schools effect a school's SOS it is crazy.

On the subject of scheduling more quality opponents, we should schedule schools that are looking for an increase in strength of schedule. Most of these schools reside in the AAC, WCC and Mountain West schools due to the P5 and BE schools having a lot of opportunities in conference to boost. These schools that immediately come to mind are Temple, Memphis, Tulsa, WSU, New Mexico, SDSU, and SMU.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:26 PM
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With Xavier and Dayton both being in the same exempt tournament, they could play each other within fourteen days of the tournament and count it as one of the four exempt games they're allowed to play. It isn't likely to happen, but I'm just pointing that out.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
With Xavier and Dayton both being in the same exempt tournament, they could play each other within fourteen days of the tournament and count it as one of the four exempt games they're allowed to play. It isn't likely to happen, but I'm just pointing that out.
I am hoping UD parlays this extra game into a top 50 home and home or 2:1 series. Don't care which top 50 program.

We were not able to get WVA, Texas A&M, Uconn, etc to bite last year.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dillomernda View Post
. . . If I recall correctly, we had Alabama A&M and another school that escapes me who were on our schedule who had a 300+ RPIs at the end of the year. . .

Totally agree, but only one team was below 300 . . .

Final RPIs:

Alabama A&M - 330
Illinois-Chicago - 298
St Louis* - 271
Wright State - 257 (for argument's sake}
Fordham* - 240
Miami (OH) - 231
George Mason* - 223
Duquesne* - 221
Boston U - 190
St Joe's* - 182
Boston College - 161
Georgia Tech - 151
Eastern Michigan - 137
St Bonaventure* - 116
Bowling Green - 110
La Salle* - 97
George Washington* - 83
UMass* - 80
UConn - 70
Texas A&M 68
Rhode Island* - 65
Richmond* - 59
Ole Miss - 57
Boise State - 44
Davidson* - 33
Providence - 23
Arkansas - 19
Oklahoma - 18
VCU* - 14

* A-10 teams

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Old 03-31-2015, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1995 View Post
Hope they really ramp it up. If there ever was a year to get some quality teams on the list it is this year. I know we should be seeing Arkansas make a return trip tot he arena and I believe Miami will be as well (can't contain my excitement :/) Not sure if we have any home-and-homes that we have to return? I know Ole miss was a return game and so was Georgia Tech I believe. I would love to see NC State and maybe some higher Mid Majors like Wichita (Orlando), UNI, Murray State, Gonzaga. The Orlando Tournament looks good as well as long as we don't draw Monmouth or USC.
The key to these tournaments is winning the first game. If we get an easy team in the first round I'll take it, because that almost guarantees a first round win and two quality opponents after. Losing the first game and falling into loser bracket is killer in these things.

Just look at what happened to us vs Texas A&M this year in the first round in Puerto Rico -- a game separated by 2 points. We won and got defending champs Uconn and BCS Boston College. They lost and got New Mexico (finished 15-16) and College of a Charleston (9-24).

The overall talent pool wasn't great in Puerto Rico but that example will be magnified in Orlando. Dayton, X, Iowa, ND and Wichita all have a chance to win the tournament. One team won't win round 1. Whichever two teams play each other, the loser is playing Monmouth in round 2 and USC/Bama in round 3.
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2015, 12:34 AM
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Like it was said. .... with UIC AT 298....... 2 300 RPI teams.

Not acceptable going fwd. And I'm sure Archie & Staff know this
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Like it was said. .... with UIC AT 298....... 2 300 RPI teams.

Not acceptable going fwd. And I'm sure Archie & Staff know this
Alabama A&M, UIC, and Miami = OOC over 200 RPI. We can afford none of these games going forward. BU at 190 was even unintentionally a marginal game.

But RPI not as important as top 50 RPI wins so need to load the schedule even on the road with top 50/100 teams OOC. UCLA won like 2 road games the entire season, but also won 3 top 50 games (all at home) despite losing like 12 versus top 50 teams. Committee clearly said top 50/100 wins key.

We need to schedule up.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
But RPI not as important as top 50 RPI wins so need to load the schedule even on the road with top 50/100 teams OOC.
That was this season - who knows what the committee will choose to focus on next year
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:36 AM
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It would also help a lot if some A10 teams don't stink as bad next year.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
It would also help a lot if some A10 teams don't stink as bad next year.

Of the seven teams on UD's schedule with RPIs south of 200, four were in the A-10 (and we played three of them twice).
Couple that with P5 opponents stinking up the joint and you get some frowns from the selection committee . . .

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Old 04-01-2015, 10:07 AM
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I'll let TW and AM make the schedule they need for competition, $$$$$, etc....
and I'll let the team win them......
And then Selection Sunday will not be stressful.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Lack of top 50 wins almost doomed UD in 2014-2015, would love to see UD upgrade its non-con schedule. I understand loss of revenue, but with NCAA credits, I am hopeful we can take one less home game th next years (while still paying Archie).
.
This loss of revenue thing has to be seriously addressed. When you just squeezed into the Tournament at #68 out of 68, that's a wakeup call. How much money would you have lost if you were #69??. We were only a few points away from a Sweet Sixteen. In business you have to spend money to make money. Our poor SOS almost solely sank a really really good ship. We gave a Selection Committee too much SOS ammo to exclude us.

We need to look at not what $$ we are losing if we drop some of the dweebs on our schedule, but what $$ we gain at the end by dropping them and enhancing our schedule with some meaty road games.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
This loss of revenue thing has to be seriously addressed. When you just squeezed into the Tournament at #68 out of 68, that's a wakeup call. How much money would you have lost if you were #69??. We were only a few points away from a Sweet Sixteen. In business you have to spend money to make money. Our poor SOS almost solely sank a really really good ship. We gave a Selection Committee too much SOS ammo to exclude us.

We need to look at not what $$ we are losing if we drop some of the dweebs on our schedule, but what $$ we gain at the end by dropping them and enhancing our schedule with some meaty road games.


I don't see why we can't schedule some teams from further west. It increases travel costs slightly but c'mon, the guys in the east clearly don't want to play us and the teams out west face the same bias. They may even be thinking we're part of the bias.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:57 AM
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Scheduling a home and home with a plus 200 RPI team cannot happen. Adding a quality opponent, instead of a Miami team that was obviously in a rebuild mode, would have bumped the SOS up enough I think that it wouldn't have almost kept us out.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:11 AM
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Wink

Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
That was this season - who knows what the committee will choose to focus on next year
I heard they are going to factor in success of women's bball program. We should be in good shape.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
This loss of revenue thing has to be seriously addressed. When you just squeezed into the Tournament at #68 out of 68, that's a wakeup call. How much money would you have lost if you were #69??. We were only a few points away from a Sweet Sixteen. In business you have to spend money to make money. Our poor SOS almost solely sank a really really good ship. We gave a Selection Committee too much SOS ammo to exclude us.

We need to look at not what $$ we are losing if we drop some of the dweebs on our schedule, but what $$ we gain at the end by dropping them and enhancing our schedule with some meaty road games.
IMHO, the only way we can address the problems that this year’s selection committee had with UD would be to magically become a member of a power 5 conference (not the Big Least). They will find another way to keep us out.... It all started last year when the DOOOOK coach dared to openly criticize the “committee” for putting 6 teams in from the A10… like that was the stupidest thing that ever could be done. The media backlash at him felt good for us, but…. there is no doubt in my mind that it all began that day …. when the venerable, arrogant, coach K likely vowed “that will never happen again”…. immediately campaigning all the power 5 brotherhood to make sure it doesn’t happen….. and voila …magically the Power 5 scrap teams not only make the tournament, but get high seeds (like UCLA, Indiana, and others). IMHO the whole NCAA basketball tournament has lost all credibility and fairness. It’s purpose is only to maximize the $ take for the power 5.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:19 AM
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someone posted a link to a John Fienstien article that was like 5 or 6 years old. I think the article concentrated on what the field looked like the year after George Mason squeeked in as the last team in the field. John explained how the Big 10 or some other power conference put pressure on the NCAA committee for the prior season's field that they felt left out too many power teams, and sure enough the next season the field was littered with questionable .500 in conference play power team in the field while mid majors (Drexel was his prime example) were left hanging in the NIT despite solid credentials.

It amazed me how similar this season's field look like the field that John was lambasting (the field was 65 back then vs the 68 today) half a decade ago. Of course, just making the field wasn't good enough for Texas despite a sub .500 record in the B12, so I guess they'll have to push harder and give teams like that a double bye next season
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 224 View Post
The key to these tournaments is winning the first game. If we get an easy team in the first round I'll take it, because that almost guarantees a first round win and two quality opponents after. Losing the first game and falling into loser bracket is killer in these things.

Just look at what happened to us vs Texas A&M this year in the first round in Puerto Rico -- a game separated by 2 points. We won and got defending champs Uconn and BCS Boston College. They lost and got New Mexico (finished 15-16) and College of a Charleston (9-24).

The overall talent pool wasn't great in Puerto Rico but that example will be magnified in Orlando. Dayton, X, Iowa, ND and Wichita all have a chance to win the tournament. One team won't win round 1. Whichever two teams play each other, the loser is playing Monmouth in round 2 and USC/Bama in round 3.
I know I've been a real a** on here about this, but it feels like the first game in these tournaments is just so very important, like if UD loses the opener, then the SOS gets really screwed up.

Almost feels like the whole season sort of rides on winning that opener, and that's a problem IMO.

This year, it felt like winning the TAMU game was tremendously important for the SOS.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
That was this season - who knows what the committee will choose to focus on next year
They actually are pretty consistent (not perfect) and dance card shows this. Huge value on top 50 (and 100) wins every year which is advantage to P5 because they get so many chances at home.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:53 AM
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Don't really see what the worry is. All we have to do is "gather steam" and pass an eye exam. I don't believe the OOC needs a major overhaul, just an adjustment of 2 or three teams out and a couple of additions. Our bigger problem is, and has been, the overall strength of the A-10. This year our pod was a disaster as far as power ratings go and that was 10 games, throw in a weak SJU and we were euchred. Didn't help that we bombed in the state of PA. Even that didn't justify a playin game for the Flyers. But even that turned out ok.
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
They actually are pretty consistent (not perfect) and dance card shows this. Huge value on top 50 (and 100) wins every year which is advantage to P5 because they get so many chances at home.
But they weren't consistent this year. Go read Patrick Stevens and some others, they will all say the same thing- this year's committee was the most inconsistent in the last 8-10 years. Dancecard missed 3 teams this year, which is more than they missed the prior 2 years combined.
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:40 PM
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Do the A10 vs. ACC games start next year, or the year after? How will that work in terms of number of years will it run, which teams are involved, number of games, etc. That should help SOS in a big way.
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Do the A10 vs. ACC games start next year, or the year after? How will that work in terms of number of years will it run, which teams are involved, number of games, etc. That should help SOS in a big way.
Not if it means Georgia Tech...
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:15 PM
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Does anyone know we have lined up for next year, other than the Orlando Classic?

Arkansas. Ole Miss again or is that done?
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:31 PM
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I think Ole Miss is done. But I beleive we get Miami to visit us next year.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
But they weren't consistent this year. Go read Patrick Stevens and some others, they will all say the same thing- this year's committee was the most inconsistent in the last 8-10 years. Dancecard missed 3 teams this year, which is more than they missed the prior 2 years combined.
You do realize one of Dance Card's misses was Dayton. So if the committee acted as in the past, we would not have made it. Dayton and Boise St were 1 and 2 below the line. Colorado St and Miami were 1 and 2 above it. So there are 2 of the 3 misses and I would not say they were significant.

The only big miss was UCLA in and Temple out. I think that was the only real head scratcher. I have not seen any analysis regarding seeding.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
You do realize one of Dance Card's misses was Dayton. So if the committee acted as in the past, we would not have made it. Dayton and Boise St were 1 and 2 below the line. Colorado St and Miami were 1 and 2 above it. So there are 2 of the 3 misses and I would not say they were significant.

The only big miss was UCLA in and Temple out. I think that was the only real head scratcher. I have not seen any analysis regarding seeding.
Agree only head-scratcher was Temple out (100% chance based upon past criteria) and UCLA (.07% chance so less than 1% chance based upon past criteria). Dayton was a 67% chance so if the committee acted like they did in the past, we were more likely than not to make it. Just more teams had higher percentages than in the past.

Anyway, 1 more top 50 win and we likely would have been at 100%.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
But they weren't consistent this year. Go read Patrick Stevens and some others, they will all say the same thing- this year's committee was the most inconsistent in the last 8-10 years. Dancecard missed 3 teams this year, which is more than they missed the prior 2 years combined.
But Temple out and UCLA was only head-scratcher. Temple 38 and UCLA 58.

Colorado St. was 46 and Miami 47 whereas Boise State was 48 and Dayton 49. Not much a difference.

The seeding was where most bracketologists were surprised along with UCLA.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Do the A10 vs. ACC games start next year, or the year after? How will that work in terms of number of years will it run, which teams are involved, number of games, etc. That should help SOS in a big way.
Rumor is GW and Fordham versus BC and Wake Forest for 2015-2016 A-10/ACC Challenge. Ugh.

See http://www.basketballforum.com/atlan...ys-center.html
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:43 PM
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The problem with the UD SOS last year was not Alabama State, UIC and Miami.

It was playing 6 games against Duquesne, St Louis and Fordham. And how bad Ga Tech and Boston College were.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:58 PM
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We can't do anything about the weak A10 teams. We can upgrade A-State, Chi-town, Miami, G-Tech, and BC. We can get proactive about the things we have control over. The lesser conferences tend to have repeat champions, or at least teams that tend to finish in the upper 1/4 of their conference. Go after them.

Toledo, Winthrop, Buffalo, UC Davis, Iona, and many more are not a lock, but their tendencies are mostly on the success side of the equation.

Drop a few buy games and go on the road like SMU did. They missed the field last season due to SOS and went out fixed that issue.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:22 PM
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San Diego Flyer has it right here. The A10 schedule is what the A10 schedule is. Drop a buy game or two if you need to. Don't schedule home and homes with teams that you know are going to be horrible. Aggressively pursue "mid-majors" and non-power conference teams who are good. Let's start a series with Boise State on the road this year since they had to play us at UD arena in the play-in game. Get Buffalo and Murray State on the schedule. Bowling Green was a good game this year. AAC schools are good targets: SMU, Tulsa, Temple.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
San Diego Flyer has it right here. The A10 schedule is what the A10 schedule is. Drop a buy game or two if you need to. Don't schedule home and homes with teams that you know are going to be horrible. Aggressively pursue "mid-majors" and non-power conference teams who are good. Let's start a series with Boise State on the road this year since they had to play us at UD arena in the play-in game. Get Buffalo and Murray State on the schedule. Bowling Green was a good game this year. AAC schools are good targets: SMU, Tulsa, Temple.
Agree focus on OOC which UD can control.

UD should also go to A-10 and "ask" for 2 games versus VCU, RI, Davidson, GW, and Richmond. All 5 teams should be top 100 so 10 top 100 games. Please dump home ans home with Fordham, St Louis, St Bonnie's, Dukes, and LaSalle. I do not caee about winning the A-10, want to make NCAA with a 4 to 7.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:33 PM
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And UD has proven over and over going back many years that they can beat tough OOC opponents on the road and at home, I don't think UD should be afraid to beef up the schedule. I think the fear factor is being overplayed.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:09 PM
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Anyone who has read Chris' scheduling posts on Pride+ knows how hard UD works to get a good schedule. They really try to get good home-and-homes, and they study the teams they sign for buy games very carefully. They try to get buy games with teams expected to finish near the top of their conference. Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way they thought it would. I'm sure they don't schedule 250+ RPI buy games on purpose. Also, they played 16 home games and 14 road/neutral games this season. Playing more road games would mean playing more road/neutral games than home games, a risky philosophy. The additional road game in conference caused by the expansion to 18 conference games has caused a bit of a problem with non-conference scheduling.

This year the committee seemed to concentrate on SOS because teams like UCLA, Indiana, and Texas had poor RPI's but good SOS's. Next year that could change. The committee seems to emphasize the positive aspects of the power teams' resumes while emphasizing the negative aspects of the non-power teams resumes. A power team could be 4-14 on the road or 2-12 against the top 50 but if they had a good SOS they were in. I agree we shouldn't be playing Miami home-and-home, but I don't know how you could complain about Arkansas, Ole' Miss, or Georgia Tech. What were we supposed to do, turn down the opportunity to play an ACC team home-and-home. They simply need to try to get better home-and-homes, which they try to do every season. And they could possibly get one more home-and-home or road-only game.

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Old 04-01-2015, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And UD has proven over and over going back many years that they can beat tough OOC opponents on the road and at home, I don't think UD should be afraid to beef up the schedule. I think the fear factor is being overplayed.
In addition, while there are no guarantees, I think we are well positioned to dominate in the regular season as well as win the A10 tournament multiple times over the next few years. And winning the A10 tournament assures us of a ticket to the dance and makes OOC and SOS only valuable for the "crazy" seeding process. Hell, just give us an automatic 11 seed, we know what to do from there. Unless you are a 4 or higher, you are still going to play tough teams in the early rounds.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:32 PM
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Longtime, you say that you agree that Dayton shouldn't be doing a home and home with Miami. But you also say that Dayton would not schedule a 250+ RPI series on purpose. But I don't think you can say that the Miami decision was an accident. Miami has been down for quite a few years, and no one in their right mind should have expected them to be a decent team. I have no doubt a lot of hard work goes into the scheduling, but that decision in particular flew in the face of logic and the end goal so much that it really made me wonder.

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Old 04-01-2015, 08:03 PM
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I don't like the Miami, OH series anymore. It's not working out for us. Hasn't for several years. Good grief, we might as well play (gasp) Wright State.
Surely after the last couple years we've had, we can do better than that.
But I'm sure that AM has something cooking.

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Old 04-01-2015, 08:05 PM
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Heard X was going to be on the schedule after next year.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
Heard X was going to be on the schedule after next year.
Wow. I LOVE that. This isn't an April Fools thing?
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Anyone who has read Chris' scheduling posts on Pride+ knows how hard UD works to get a good schedule. They really try to get good home-and-homes, and they study the teams they sign for buy games very carefully. They try to get buy games with teams expected to finish near the top of their conference. Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way they thought it would. I'm sure they don't schedule 250+ RPI buy games on purpose. Also, they played 16 home games and 14 road/neutral games this season. Playing more road games would mean playing more road/neutral games than home games, a risky philosophy. The additional road game in conference caused by the expansion to 18 conference games has caused a bit of a problem with non-conference scheduling.

This year the committee seemed to concentrate on SOS because teams like UCLA, Indiana, and Texas had poor RPI's but good SOS's. Next year that could change. The committee seems to emphasize the positive aspects of the power teams' resumes while emphasizing the negative aspects of the non-power teams resumes. A power team could be 4-14 on the road or 2-12 against the top 50 but if they had a good SOS they were in. I agree we shouldn't be playing Miami home-and-home, but I don't know how you could complain about Arkansas, Ole' Miss, or Georgia Tech. What were we supposed to do, turn down the opportunity to play an ACC team home-and-home. They simply need to try to get better home-and-homes, which they try to do every season. And they could possibly get one more home-and-home or road-only game.
This is a very nice summary. Our non-conference SOS has NEVER been the thing that has kept us out of the tournament. Until this year's committee did a horrid job, it was never really even close to an issue. It was always our conference performance that did us in/kept us out. And of course I think we got hosed this year by the selection committee but we still made it in and still advanced to the third round (certainly playing the extra game was not advantageous but one could make the argument that the poor job the committee did helped us some - got to play an overrated, overseeded 6 out of the nBE).

At any rate, I don't think we should scrap the scheduling philosophy we have had for years just because of one bad year by the selection committee.

However, a lot of us have been thinking/saying we ought to improve the schedule for years. I'm one who argued that it's more difficult to improve the schedule where UD was - we were good enough to win games (especially at home) but not quite good enough to be considered a "good loss" if a so-called "high-major" team lost to us. So we needed to improve the schedule in order to make it more likely to get in the tournament, but we had to get in the tournament in order to improve the schedule. It's the age-old need to get a job to get experience but need experience to get the job thing. Applies to recruits too: you need to be good in order to get better recruits, but you need better recruits in order to be good! Or, you hire a fantastic young coach with great skills who does a fabulous job with player development and makes the players you already have a lot better so you can get in the tournament and win games in the tournament and then attract better recruits and get back to the tournament and go farther in the tournament and get even better recruits and then be able to get better non-conference games because you're no longer a bad loss.

That said, I'm in favor of dropping one home game and trying to add either a good home-and-home or a good road/neutral game. We've always said we would do that if we could get on TV against someone good, although it's not always easy to do. There aren't all that many neutral site opportunities outside of the exempt tournaments. We're not really a team that most top power 5 schools want to play as a one way game at this point, even a straight road game. But I expect to see us have probably one fewer home game this coming season. The extra $$ from NCAA units, as well as sales, exposure, etc. ought to more than offset the revenue from a loss of a home game. I'd look to see if we could get home and homes with upper/middle power 5 teams - Illinois, Purdue, maybe Northwestern. Arkansas is a great series for us. Ole Miss has been great too (cause we keep beating them!). It's worth calling Cincy, Memphis, Temple, Pitt, maybe Tennessee, Auburn, etc.

That said, it's been rightly pointed out elsewhere that to help your SOS, you're actually better off playing teams that will win a bunch of games, hopefully win their conference. We got pretty unlucky, in my opinion, with this year's non-con schedule. A lot of the teams we played were projected to be better than they ended up. Alabama State was never gonna be good, but most of the other squads underachieved. Miami is kind of it's own discussion with them being a local, historical rival. Word is that series won't be continuing anyway.

The exempt tournaments are great for us, and we'll continue to play in them as long as we can. We typically get two or three good opponents every year at a neutral site which is perfect.

So, I think really we just need to tweak things a bit, and play maybe one more road/neutral game, hopefully against a good opponent. We'll need to start a couple new home and home series to replace GT and Ole Miss. We've played First Four teams before, maybe call up BYU? I'd love to play Boise again. Then honestly I don't really think we need to tweak too much. The overall schedule was worse because the A-10 was way down this year. Lots of teams missed opportunities for good nonconference wins and it really hurt the conference as a whole. But I think that last year was more the exception than the norm. I don't think as many teams will be as bad every year going forward. And we won't likely play ALL the bad teams in our pod every season. So we can wager that the conference schedule won't hurt is as much, while making a couple minor tweaks to the non-conference portion. Again, for 8 years or so it was NOT the non conference schedule which kept us out, and even in a wonky, stupid year by the selection committee where tons of stuff broke against us, it STILL didn't keep us out (though it was dangerously close).

We don't need a major overhaul. Just a couple good home and homes to start and then maybe one more quality road/neutral team. Don't overlook the quality of the Orlando tourney, too. Ought to be much better than Texas A&M/UConn/BC. Right there you have a good jump in SOS/RPI.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:35 PM
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I am also on the side that we do not need to make major changes to the way we schedule. The Miami series was a bad series, but hopefully that is done after this year. We had bad luck with our exempt tourney this year. BC did no help, we lost to UConn because we were playing 8-5, and Texas A&M lost some bad games that they should have won. Our potential opponents in our exempt this year should be MUCH MUCH better.

Like others have said, I like the idea of targeting AAC, MVC, and MWC teams for home and home games. I want nothing to do with MAC schools for H&H. I worked in the MAC for 2 years and learned that any team in the MAC can lose to any other team in the MAC on any given night. They might have a couple teams pop in the top 100 in the RPI, but for the most part you are looking at the 125-175 range for the better MAC teams and 200+ for the bad MAC teams. People keep mentioning Buffalo, but they are not a consistently good team. Toledo is either a 20 win team or a 10 win or less team with nothing in between. MAC schools are good for buy games, especially if you pick the right MAC school, but please no more H&H with MAC schools.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:49 PM
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Heard it when I said it.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I am also on the side that we do not need to make major changes to the way we schedule. The Miami series was a bad series, but hopefully that is done after this year. We had bad luck with our exempt tourney this year. BC did no help, we lost to UConn because we were playing 8-5, and Texas A&M lost some bad games that they should have won. Our potential opponents in our exempt this year should be MUCH MUCH better.

Like others have said, I like the idea of targeting AAC, MVC, and MWC teams for home and home games. I want nothing to do with MAC schools for H&H. I worked in the MAC for 2 years and learned that any team in the MAC can lose to any other team in the MAC on any given night. They might have a couple teams pop in the top 100 in the RPI, but for the most part you are looking at the 125-175 range for the better MAC teams and 200+ for the bad MAC teams. People keep mentioning Buffalo, but they are not a consistently good team. Toledo is either a 20 win team or a 10 win or less team with nothing in between. MAC schools are good for buy games, especially if you pick the right MAC school, but please no more H&H with MAC schools.
Good post. I'm a little torn on this one. There just are not too many schools that are driveable distance, willing to play us, and very winnable road games. MAC schools and maybe a couple Missouri Valley schools fit this description. There's value to having a close winnable road game that doesn't include any taxing travel. The RPI sure likes road wins.

But you're right of course that there is no guarantee a MAC school any given year is going to be top-50, top-100, or sub-150. Aside from Miami though, we've only had a couple MAC series that I can think of. Toledo several years back... That's about the only one I can think of. We've played Eastern Michigan, BGSU, Akron, Buffalo, Central Michigan, but all at home. I actually would not mind a home and home with Ohio. I know they were awful last year but the Flyer Faithful would fill up Athens I'd think.

Anyway, there just are not that many decent teams that are relatively close and willing to play us outside of the MAC schools.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:48 PM
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I would do a home and home with Buffalo if Hurley stays and start it on the road because A) they're a good team and B) it would be nice to give Kevin Kuwik and especially our lone senior Dyshawn Pierrre a game in front of or at least close driving distance to friends and family.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:53 PM
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Well, ok, I guess we did as well as we could this season if we have been working hard at improving the ooc for so long.

So maybe we just try zen or prayer for the future in hopes these same teams turn themselves around.

UIC = miserably below .500 for the last 10 years. Below .400 for the last 5 years.

Alabama A&M = At least 6 straight seasons of losing records. Stopped counting. Below .400.

So tell me how hard we worked to book those.

Dump those games and go on the road against the good teams where a loss actually helps our SOS and doesn't kill our RPI. And a win is money in the bank.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Well, ok, I guess we did as well as we could this season if we have been working hard at improving the ooc for so long.

So maybe we just try zen or prayer for the future in hopes these same teams turn themselves around.

UIC = miserably below .500 for the last 10 years. Below .400 for the last 5 years.

Alabama A&M = At least 6 straight seasons of losing records. Stopped counting. Below .400.

So tell me how hard we worked to book those.

Dump those games and go on the road against the good teams where a loss actually helps our SOS and doesn't kill our RPI. And a win is money in the bank.
To be fair, the Alabama A&M game was the first game of the year, and UIC was the first game after the Puerto Rico tourney. The year prior, we needed a miracle to beat a tough IPFW team, and the year prior, we got creamed by a decent Buffalo team coming back from our tourney (was that Charleston?). So I think we deliberately scheduled a couple easier games in those slots.

Every team plays a couple of games like those. Sure, we could have picked some slightly better squads, but those two games I'm pretty sure were weaker opponents on purpose.

In my opinion, what hurt us last year was Ole Miss and A&M missing the top 50, and Georgia Tech being horrid. I'd have guessed all 3 of those would be RPI top 100, and probably two of them top 50. I'd also have wagered that the defending champs would at least have been RPI top 50. There's 4 games that were supposed to be a lot better than they ended up being. Nobody suspected Ala A&M or UIC were going to be top 100 RPI wins.
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  #51  
Old 04-01-2015, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Longtime, you say that you agree that Dayton shouldn't be doing a home and home with Miami. But you also say that Dayton would not schedule a 250+ RPI series on purpose. But I don't think you can say that the Miami decision was an accident.
Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Miami is kind of it's own discussion with them being a local, historical rival. Word is that series won't be continuing anyway.
Dallas, that's not what I said. I was talking about the buy games. As THirt points out, the Miami series is a separate discussion since it is a local, historical rival. Let's hope that series is over.
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  #52  
Old 04-01-2015, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Rumor is GW and Fordham versus BC and Wake Forest for 2015-2016 A-10/ACC Challenge. Ugh.

See http://www.basketballforum.com/atlan...ys-center.html
If that's the lineup, then the only "challenge" will be in who has the stomach to watch every minute of each game.
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  #53  
Old 04-01-2015, 11:37 PM
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I would be all for preserving a local, historical rivalry, but not if it is hurting Dayton's resume. If you want to play the buy games, then you really need to maximize the series games. Dayton can't afford to just punt a home and home to preserve a rivalry no one cares about anyway. Unless we are tired of all these NCAA wins and want to go back and play in the NIT again.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:53 PM
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I can believe that they are doing their best to find good opponents.

If they replaced one buy game for two years with one home and home series, they would lose one home game every other year.

The one year there would be 16 home and 14 away, the next year would be 15 and 15.

If they aren't willing to ever do 15 and 15, then I agree that there isn't anything that can be done to toughen the SOS other than what they are already doing.



Some other teams do 15 and 15.

VCU this year did 16 and 15.

But, for 2013-2014, VCU actually played 16 away/neutral games with 15 home games. They played 31 games in 2013-2014.


http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_214_Men.html

http://realtimerpi.com/2013-2014/rpi_214_Men.html

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Old 04-02-2015, 01:54 AM
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So we'll get a tougher SOS next year. Of course, then our RPI will suffer.

And guess what? The Selection Committee may -- surprise, surprise -- decide in 2016 that RPI is an important indicator and SOS doesn't really carry all that much water. As long as the big money boys own the show, they'll decide who gets in and who gets the good seeding and the placements. See, they change the conditions for selection as needed to suit their purposes.

Haven't we learned this yet? Do any of you think this process isn't rigged? With this much money on the line and you don't see any funny business?

If so, you better take an uncle with you the next time you buy a car. Or re-finance your home.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
So we'll get a tougher SOS next year. Of course, then our RPI will suffer.

And guess what? The Selection Committee may -- surprise, surprise -- decide in 2016 that RPI is an important indicator and SOS doesn't really carry all that much water. As long as the big money boys own the show, they'll decide who gets in and who gets the good seeding and the placements. See, they change the conditions for selection as needed to suit their purposes.

Haven't we learned this yet? Do any of you think this process isn't rigged? With this much money on the line and you don't see any funny business?

If so, you better take an uncle with you the next time you buy a car. Or re-finance your home.
RPI will not go down when Dayton beats the snot out of better teams next year!
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:42 AM
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With Archie at the helm and the toughness we showed this season, I no longer fear the Road for our Flyers. I vote we take a page from Temple's old "How to win the A-10" book and go on the road against formidable foes early in the OOC schedule. I always admired how strong those teams were in conference play after already having played many tougher teams OOC.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post

Every team plays a couple of games like those. Sure, we could have picked some slightly better squads, but those two games I'm pretty sure were weaker opponents on purpose.
I agree, and we always have done that. But when the SC puts us at #68, we shouldn't just sit back and hope for better showings with the same scheduling formula. We can't just replace A A&M and UIC with Coppin and Stetson. We have to think out of the box.

Now is the time. I suppose it's true that no one saw Gregory, Ole Miss and T A&M affecting our RPI & SOS to that degree. But honestly, they could have been even worse. I don't really have a problem with scheduling them again, it's the buyins that are in my crosshairs and the reluctance to go on the road.

Reactive is to schedule the same way and hope others help us out. Proactive is to change up the scheduling philosophy and at least attempt to control your own fate.

And I agree with Terry K67 about the bias. What that says is probably the best thing we could do is get an A10 rep on the Selection Committee. That would probably trump anything we can do with our ooc schedule.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:40 AM
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Strengthening our OOS is important. Playing against some competition that is a potential crash and burn is the danger.

If you look at some of the lower conferences we have played against in the past and some conferences we could schedule buy games against if you select 'last years front runners' you are playing with fire.

Look at some of these conferences. The number of teams in each league and this years RPI (from UDPRIDE) you can see that selecting a 'front runner' in almost all of these conferences is a good gamble that your 'buy' game will be a losing proposition for building your RPI.

Just looking at the numbers: The first number is the total teams in conference, Green are the # of teams in conference that have an RPI < 100 and Red are the # of teams that have an RPI >150.
Conference
Mid Ameri 12 4 4
Patriot 10 0 7
Ohio Valley 12 1 8
Sun Belt 11 1 7
Colonial 10 2 8
Summit 9 2 7
Southern 10 1 8
Metro Altantic 11 1 9
Big South 11 1 8

Based on this your chances of selecting any team in these conferences that will have an RPI lower than 100 are slim. Now I know the numbers are just from one data point for this year, but I bet if you looked at these team conferences over the last few years the number of teams in each conference that had an RPI less than 100 has been very similar to this years outcome.

Your buy game is a money maker but an RPI loser. Don't pretend to think this has a great chance to enhance your RPI.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:41 AM
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the part of the schedule that hurt that Flyers last year was the A10 pod. All 5 teams they played twice were sub 100 RPI.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
the part of the schedule that hurt that Flyers last year was the A10 pod. All 5 teams they played twice were sub 100 RPI.
Sure, but as others have said, there's nothing you can do about that. What Dayton controls is their OOC scheduling. Other than the Miami series I don't have much problem with it, but it would be ludicrous to ignore the message the NCAA selection committee sent. Dayton has to make an adjustment to the OOC and I trust they will.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Sure, but as others have said, there's nothing you can do about that. What Dayton controls is their OOC scheduling.
not sure how much control individual teams have over that. Sure they could have scheduled teams better than Ala A&M and UIC but there is little they can do about the fact that it is tough to schedule good home and home series.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:08 AM
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This page lists every d1 team with home record, away record, and overall record.

You have to look at every team's record in order to figure out who is doing what in terms of their home/away schedule setup.

Another complicating factor is that not evey team plays 30 games. The number of games seems to vary from 29-31.

Suffice it to say though, that I see many teams either doing a 50/50 split, 15/15, or playing more road games than home games.


http://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/standings/
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
With Archie at the helm and the toughness we showed this season, I no longer fear the Road for our Flyers. I vote we take a page from Temple's old "How to win the A-10" book and go on the road against formidable foes early in the OOC schedule. I always admired how strong those teams were in conference play after already having played many tougher teams OOC.
I agree that many have looked at Temple's approach. Temple went 26-11, had an RPI of 33 and an SOS of 46. Nice. Got a date with the NIT. Lost a couple too many in ooc. If they were a power 5 team they were in the NCAA's. It's not a level playing field.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:23 AM
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Maybe we shouldn't have lost to Duquesne (RPI 223) on the road?
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:23 AM
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8
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Suffice it to say though, that I see many teams either doing a 50/50 split, 15/15, or playing more road games than home games.

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/standings/
But it seems most of those teams are from one bid conferences where their only road to the tourney is to win the conference tournament.

So they can sacrifice themselves out of conference, go on the road and pile up losses as buy game victims, and not have to worry about that impacting their chances of a bid
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
8

But it seems most of those teams are from one bid conferences where their only road to the tourney is to win the conference tournament.

So they can sacrifice themselves out of conference, go on the road and pile up losses as buy game victims, and not have to worry about that impacting their chances of a bid
You beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
I agree that many have looked at Temple's approach. Temple went 26-11, had an RPI of 33 and an SOS of 46. Nice. Got a date with the NIT. Lost a couple too many in ooc. If they were a power 5 team they were in the NCAA's. It's not a level playing field.
Rpiforecast is showing their SOS as 62, and they were 2-8 vs. the top 50.

But, Dance Card did have them in, and they should've been in.

Last edited by ud2; 04-02-2015 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:42 AM
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As has been said before, it is not that easy to get quality home and home games and picking the "right" buy opponent a year or 2 in advance, all with limited dates to achieve what many other teams are also trying to achieve. Even this year when a lot of things went wrong - bad A10 pod, power 5 opponents that didn't play up to expectations, we made the tourney.

I think it is safe to say that our schedulers know what needs to be done and have done a pretty good job in the past.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
the part of the schedule that hurt that Flyers last year was the A10 pod. All 5 teams they played twice were sub 100 RPI.
Amen Sea Bass, Pod was a killer, 10 games against the lower half of the league plus a weakened SJU and we were in the trick bag. OCC just needs a tweak, drop a couple of the buy games and schedule a couple mid range P5 schools or top rung mid-majors. Agree the Miami game doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore. Sounds easy but I'm sure the admin is probably having difficulty doing that. Past two years performance should help though.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:46 AM
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The schedule can afford two buy games against bad teams. Would it be better if those teams were closer to the top of their league? Yeah, it would. But a couple of those games are not the deal breaker. You could go on the road and end up with DePaul, Wake, USC.

I agree with adding one more home and home. Or even one way road. But then you could also come up empty and end up with Miami after what seems like a couple final deals fall through, like this year.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
8

But it seems most of those teams are from one bid conferences where their only road to the tourney is to win the conference tournament.

So they can sacrifice themselves out of conference, go on the road and pile up losses as buy game victims, and not have to worry about that impacting their chances of a bid
Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
You beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.
Just looking at the A10 alone, I find 4 teams that either played a 50/50 split, 1 team, or played more road/neutral games than home games, 3 teams.


UMass 31 total/15home, more road/neutral than home

LaSalle 31 total/15 home, more road/neutral than home

St. Joe's 30 total/14home, more road/neutral than home

George Mason 30 total/15home, even 50/50 split

Last edited by ud2; 04-02-2015 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Just looking at the A10 alone, I find 4 teams that either played a 50/50 split, 1 team, or played more road/neutral games than home games, 3 teams.


UMass 31 total/15home, more road/neutral than home

LaSalle 31 total/15 home, more road/neutral than home

St. Joe's 30 total/14home, more road/neutral than home

George Mason 30 total/15home, even 50/50 split
and UMass had the best record of the four at 17-15
Not the best scheduling philosophy if you want an at-large bid
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
and UMass had the best record of the four at 17-15
Not the best scheduling philosophy if you want an at-large bid
2013-2014, VCU played 16 road/neutral and 15 home and got an at-large bid.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Moving the goal posts now...2013-2014, VCU played 16 road/neutral and 15 home and got an at-large bid.
I'm not saying it will never work but that same season UD didn't and got an at-large bid
Even VCU that year didn't play a lot of true road games OCC (only 3)
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:19 AM
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3 more, Boise State, Wichita State, and Northern Iowa, I think that's it for this year, for non power 5 teams.

WSU 15/15
BSU 17 an/14h
NI 15/15
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
Even VCU that year didn't play a lot of true road games OCC (only 3)
3 is greater than UD's 2 this year, Miami and Arkansas.

If UD played 3 true road games plus 3 neutral games every year from now on, then I would probably shut my trap and never complain about this ever again, I promise.

Last edited by ud2; 04-02-2015 at 11:51 AM..
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:31 PM
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I'd like three road games but I could live with two.

Biggest thing for me is that Miami gets ended as a series. If it looked they were moving back into solid territory RPI wise I'd be all for it but doesn't look like they'll be competitive any time soon.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:37 PM
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Mountain West and Missouri Valley announce a challenge. A10 needs to find a partner.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'd like three road games but I could live with two.

Biggest thing for me is that Miami gets ended as a series. If it looked they were moving back into solid territory RPI wise I'd be all for it but doesn't look like they'll be competitive any time soon.
Miami recently was mentioned as part of a story in the DDN about 'sports' fees that students are charged. The dollar level of student fee's for Miami (going to their athletic department) was significant dollar wise. More than almost all other state schools. It mentioned their POOR attendance at most of the major sports games (i.e. BB and FB). Their most impressive athletic program? ...... Hockey!

Now I know there is some interest in hockey in the US but really? That's the best you got at Miami?

So No their BB program is not gonna be anything real soon nor will it achieve like it did years ago ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE.

It's a waste of a game no matter the 'history' ... just like we can't live in the UD 50's and 60's we can't pretend that this 'history' between us is worth much in today's dollars.
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Just looking at the A10 alone, I find 4 teams that either played a 50/50 split, 1 team, or played more road/neutral games than home games, 3 teams.


UMass 31 total/15home, more road/neutral than home

LaSalle 31 total/15 home, more road/neutral than home

St. Joe's 30 total/14home, more road/neutral than home

George Mason 30 total/15home, even 50/50 split
And how many of those teams made the NCAA Tournament?
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Amen Sea Bass, Pod was a killer, 10 games against the lower half of the league plus a weakened SJU and we were in the trick bag. OCC just needs a tweak, drop a couple of the buy games and schedule a couple mid range P5 schools or top rung mid-majors. Agree the Miami game doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore. Sounds easy but I'm sure the admin is probably having difficulty doing that. Past two years performance should help though.
I think it would benefit the A-10 as a conference to evaluate the pod system scheduling. It doesn't make sense that the top teams in the conference should play H&H against the weaker siblings. They should focus on making sure that the teams projected to do well play each other H&H (VCU, UD, UMass, Davidson, Richmond, URI). Not only does this help bolster the SOS resumes of those schools, it creates more TV friendly matchups. Nobody watches Fordham vs. anybody, so why have them get beat twice by the upper half of the league?
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
As has been said before, it is not that easy to get quality home and home games and picking the "right" buy opponent a year or 2 in advance, all with limited dates to achieve what many other teams are also trying to achieve. Even this year when a lot of things went wrong - bad A10 pod, power 5 opponents that didn't play up to expectations, we made the tourney.

I think it is safe to say that our schedulers know what needs to be done and have done a pretty good job in the past.
Both points appear to be correct. And picking the perfect ones would be an art. But,
it's not difficult to avoid the "wrong" buy in teams. We knew this much when we booked them:

UIC = miserably below .500 for the last 10 years. Below .400 for the last 5 years.

Alabama A&M = At least 6 straight seasons of losing records. Stopped counting. Below .400.

I'm guessing it won't happen again because it could be the difference in the current selection trend between 68 and 69.
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And how many of those teams made the NCAA Tournament?
Yes, 0/4 on those four.

But, what about these four that did make the tourney?

VCU, 31 games, 16 of those were away/neutral

Boise, 31 games, 17 were away/neutral

Wichita State, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

Northern Iowa, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

It's a tie. 4 in, 4 out.
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yes, 0/4 on those four.

But, what about these four that did make the tourney?

VCU, 31 games, 16 of those were away/neutral

Boise, 31 games, 17 were away/neutral

Wichita State, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

Northern Iowa, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

It's a tie. 4 in, 4 out.
Look at the percentage of teams getting at large bids the past few seasons and I bet a small percentage play this type of schedule
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:19 PM
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I would guess the other factor to consider RE: buy games is the window of availability scheduling wise and the price it takes to bring some of these teams to town.

Syracuse, Louisville & some of the other teams can offer better TV exposure and probably more money to get a top from a lower league to show up
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
Look at the percentage of teams getting at large bids the past few seasons and I bet a small percentage play this type of schedule
Agree - most probable play more home buy games. Remember, the number of at larges that are going to the power 5 conferences.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Miami recently was mentioned as part of a story in the DDN about 'sports' fees that students are charged. The dollar level of student fee's for Miami (going to their athletic department) was significant dollar wise. More than almost all other state schools. It mentioned their POOR attendance at most of the major sports games (i.e. BB and FB). Their most impressive athletic program? ...... Hockey!

Now I know there is some interest in hockey in the US but really? That's the best you got at Miami?

So No their BB program is not gonna be anything real soon nor will it achieve like it did years ago ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE.

It's a waste of a game no matter the 'history' ... just like we can't live in the UD 50's and 60's we can't pretend that this 'history' between us is worth much in today's dollars.
Hockey at Miami OH is a very big deal. They are top 10 nationally every year and compete for national titles each year. Their hockey facility is brand new and 1 of the best in the country. So yes hockey is the best they got.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yes, 0/4 on those four.

But, what about these four that did make the tourney?

VCU, 31 games, 16 of those were away/neutral

Boise, 31 games, 17 were away/neutral

Wichita State, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

Northern Iowa, 30 games, 15 were away/neutral

It's a tie. 4 in, 4 out.
Not all of those were at-large bids (I believe only 2 were at-large). We're talking about at-large bids.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:40 PM
THirt THirt is offline
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Not all of those were at-large bids (I believe only 2 were at-large). We're talking about at-large bids.
Realistically though, all 4 of those teams would have been at-large. The real question is: had Dayton beaten VCU, would the Rams have played Boise in Dayton while we got the OSU rematch? I read that the A10 was told the conference tourney champ would get a 7 seed.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Realistically though, all 4 of those teams would have been at-large. The real question is: had Dayton beaten VCU, would the Rams have played Boise in Dayton while we got the OSU rematch? I read that the A10 was told the conference tourney champ would get a 7 seed.
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Probably, but Colorado State and Temple thought they were getting at-large bids too. Temple had an SOS of 60 - a lot of good that did them. They scheduled up but lost too many games. The same could happen to us. (Richmond had an SOS of 32 but also lost too many games.) Of course, you and I have both said we would be willing to have one more road/neutral game to make it 15/15. I just wouldn't want to go any further than that. The key is making sure the home-and-homes we get are good ones, which UD attempts to do every year. We had bad luck this year because the exempt tourney teams were weaker than last year and our A-10 POD was terrible. As you said, I just don't see any reason to make major changes to a scheduling philosophy that has worked simply because the committee members had their heads up their butts this year.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:12 PM
THirt THirt is offline
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Probably, but Colorado State and Temple thought they were getting at-large bids too. Temple had an SOS of 60 - a lot of good that did them. They scheduled up but lost too many games. The same could happen to us. (Richmond had an SOS of 32 but also lost too many games.) Of course, you and I have both said we would be willing to have one more road/neutral game to make it 15/15. I just wouldn't want to go any further than that. The key is making sure the home-and-homes we get are good ones, which UD attempts to do every year. We had bad luck this year because the exempt tourney teams were weaker than last year and our A-10 POD was terrible. As you said, I just don't see any reason to make major changes to a scheduling philosophy that has worked simply because the committee members had their heads up their butts this year.
Agreed. 5 or 6 teams we played were weaker than anticipated, and I'm not sure anyone we played in the non-conference was better than anticipated. Doesn't mean we messed up scheduling and doesn't mean we need wholesale changes to the scheduling philosophy.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Hockey at Miami OH is a very big deal. They are top 10 nationally every year and compete for national titles each year. Their hockey facility is brand new and 1 of the best in the country. So yes hockey is the best they got.
Redhawks were ranked 4th on 3-23-15. Got upset in the NCAA tourney by our friends, the Providence Friars, or is that Cryers
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:09 PM
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Maybe even worse, our UDPride has Temple at SOS of 49. Still not good enough.

Dayton has a lot of SOS ground to make up next year. Would like to know Wabler's thoughts on that. I imagine he is plotting to do something rather than hope our opponents have a better year.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:50 PM
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Kind of unrelated, but just hypothetically speaking, what if three or four games on everyone's schedule were set aside to be assigned by the selection committee??

They used to do the Bracket Buster, which was a great event because it matched teams up late in the year, but it was just one game. This would be the same idea, but it would be three or four games instead of one. They could either create round robin tournaments of four teams, bracketed tournaments of eight teams with winners and losers brackets, or just have four dates set aside where two are home games, two are away games, and the committee matches up the teams.

I think the committee would like it, because it would give them a chance to evaluate the teams they're looking at as they face off against each other.

I think TV would like it, for obvious reasons. You'd see good games.

I think the good teams from weak leagues would like it, because it would manufacture a chance for them to get decent wins.

I think the only people who wouldn't like it are the only ones who could make it happen, though.

In college basketball, it seems as though no one wants to play the teams that want to play them, and everyone wants to play the teams that don't want to play them. As a result, your typical OOC schedule of 11-13 games will feature maybe two or three that are actually worth watching. And people wonder why college basketball isn't that big of a deal for the first half of the year....
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:04 PM
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Miami series is done from what I have heard.

Regarding the A10/ACC games...it seems as though barring a breach of contract between the A10 and Barclays, that the ball was in the A10's court in terms of this A10/ACC deal.

I mentioned elsewhere...the A10 should have made it to where the top two teams from each conference play each other, each year...with no team playing twice...so in theory...is the top 6 stay the same in each conference each year, the top 6 teams play. This rules out the bottom feeders for 3 years...that is unless one of them jumps into the top 6 where the teams above them have already played...
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Kind of unrelated, but just hypothetically speaking, what if three or four games on everyone's schedule were set aside to be assigned by the selection committee??

They used to do the Bracket Buster, which was a great event because it matched teams up late in the year, but it was just one game. This would be the same idea, but it would be three or four games instead of one. They could either create round robin tournaments of four teams, bracketed tournaments of eight teams with winners and losers brackets, or just have four dates set aside where two are home games, two are away games, and the committee matches up the teams.

I think the committee would like it, because it would give them a chance to evaluate the teams they're looking at as they face off against each other.

I think TV would like it, for obvious reasons. You'd see good games.

I think the good teams from weak leagues would like it, because it would manufacture a chance for them to get decent wins.

I think the only people who wouldn't like it are the only ones who could make it happen, though.

In college basketball, it seems as though no one wants to play the teams that want to play them, and everyone wants to play the teams that don't want to play them. As a result, your typical OOC schedule of 11-13 games will feature maybe two or three that are actually worth watching. And people wonder why college basketball isn't that big of a deal for the first half of the year....
You would actually trust the committee to provide a fair shake to the so called mid-majors. You are way more trusting than I.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Mountain West and Missouri Valley announce a challenge. A10 needs to find a partner.
The Big East?

Oops - sorry. That would have been a better answer yesterday.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
You would actually trust the committee to provide a fair shake to the so called mid-majors. You are way more trusting than I.
More than half of the committee come from outside the Power Five, and even if you don't trust them it can't be any harder for those teams to get good games on equal terms that what it already is.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
More than half of the committee come from outside the Power Five, and even if you don't trust them it can't be any harder for those teams to get good games on equal terms that what it already is.
Not buying that! The power 5 coaches are calling the shots, and if the non-power 5 coaches don't go along with it, then they will be ostracized. The "good old boy" network is very powerful.
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