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09-24-2015, 05:13 PM
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OT, but I just read an article about the Wells case with some details that I never heard about.
There was a group of people playing truth or dare, the alleged victim took off most of her clothes, she gave Wells a lap dance and then kissed him. I never heard all those details before, sounds like she pursued him at least initially.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...wsuit/8111709/
Last edited by ud2; 09-24-2015 at 05:19 PM..
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09-24-2015, 05:55 PM
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Explain, please,...
Originally Posted by Flyer69ers
I am 100% in DP's corner and hope he is 100% exonerated.
But I cannot fault the University for erring on the side of "the law" (???)
and the University's "image"
while this is being sorted out.
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Did I miss something? If there is a sexual encounter between two people...no one else present...one says it was consensual and one says it was not,....and there no physical evidence, e.g., bruises, torn clothing.....isn't that a classic "he said she said" which is not resolvable?
If the DP sistuation is of that type, how can he be disciplined in any way by the U....unless he was violating a rule by even being with the person or being in the location, e.g., something like that? There must be some other evidence or knowledge that the U has that warrants suspension.
Whatever...this appears like a lose-lose matter....sort of like suing the company you work for while you're still employed. **** shame this had to happen.
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09-24-2015, 06:04 PM
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Actually her inital statements even to her friends and police were that she did not consider it rape but after it happened she felt it was inappropriate. It was her friends who contacted authroities not her and considered it a sexual assault. It is human to have second thoughts about something we've done, but to turn it into an allegation is another thing altogether.
We have all experienced this one time or another when we were young. Seemed like a great idea at the time then the next morning have second thoughts.
Heck I remember waking up and looking at her while she looked at me and we both were asking the same question......did we or didn't we????
Or whats worse yet, waking to see what you thought was a 10 the night before and was barely a 5.
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09-24-2015, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
It was her friends who contacted authroities not her and considered it a sexual assault.
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The report states that the information regarding the incident made it's way to the coaching staff of the sport that the "victim" plays...they then contacted the Title IX staffer...who in turn contacted UDPD:
"The complainant said the information about the offense made its way to her coaches . They
met with the complainant and told her that, in terms of following up on the complaint, she could make
up her own mind; however, they had an obligation to forward the information to the athletic department
and to the Title IX coordinator.
The complainant said that by the time the Title IX coordinator contacted her , she had decided that she
wished to pursue the complaint through the university. She said she did not, at this time, wish to file
criminal charges against the suspect. Neither did she wish to see him go unsanctioned completely.
She said she was satisfied at the moment knowing that the university would pursue things and she
said she would cooperate in our investigation in whatever manner was needed."
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09-24-2015, 06:21 PM
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She probably "felt" it was inappropriate because she felt bad about cheating on her boyfriend. She may have gotten screwed that night but DP is getting royally (no pun intended) screwed at the moment.
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09-24-2015, 07:39 PM
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So it seems according to Title IX that if a female has one drink she is incapable of making any rational decision. Sometimes she doesn't even need the drink as displayed by the hosts of programs like the View, etc.
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09-24-2015, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
The report states that the information regarding the incident made it's way to the coaching staff of the sport that the "victim" plays...they then contacted the Title IX staffer...who in turn contacted UDPD:
"The complainant said the information about the offense made its way to her coaches . They
met with the complainant and told her that, in terms of following up on the complaint, she could make
up her own mind; however, they had an obligation to forward the information to the athletic department
and to the Title IX coordinator.
The complainant said that by the time the Title IX coordinator contacted her , she had decided that she
wished to pursue the complaint through the university. She said she did not, at this time, wish to file
criminal charges against the suspect. Neither did she wish to see him go unsanctioned completely.
She said she was satisfied at the moment knowing that the university would pursue things and she
said she would cooperate in our investigation in whatever manner was needed."
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So this girl is an athlete, checking known female athletic program rosters I don't notice anyone missing. And if not then she was not given the same punishment as DP for drinking etc. Of course I don't know what her particular sport was/is.
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09-24-2015, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
So this girl is an athlete, checking known female athletic program rosters I don't notice anyone missing. And if not then she was not given the same punishment as DP for drinking etc. Of course I don't know what her particular sport was/is.
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Then she is still at school, DP ex plays on the woman s basketball team
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09-24-2015, 09:25 PM
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I think the thread should stop.
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09-24-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
I see his hiring of an attorney as a sign of two things
1) He is not planning on returning to UD
2) He wants his name cleared
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And he wants financial restitution for the damage UD did to him...and I dont blame him as this is exactly what I'd do if I were him. I hope he not only clears his name but also makes making the NBA a pay cut. How stupid of UD to do this. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Why does it always seem like nobody at the top of the U of D administration has no common sense?
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09-24-2015, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NovaFlyer
I think the thread should stop.
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I think the allegations should stop and he should be reinstated lacking any real evidence. But thats just me.
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09-24-2015, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
And he wants financial restitution for the damage UD did to him...and I dont blame him as this is exactly what I'd do if I were him. I hope he not only clears his name but also makes making the NBA a pay cut. How stupid of UD to do this. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Why does it always seem like nobody at the top of the U of D administration has no common sense?
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Peter Principle at work
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09-24-2015, 10:26 PM
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Where is this police report Shocka? Is it available online? The heavy handed Title IX policies are where I lay most of the blame for this unjust situation. I note the fact that the Coach of the complainant said that she HAD to report it up the chain.
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09-24-2015, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
Where is this police report Shocka? Is it available online? The heavy handed Title IX policies are where I lay most of the blame for this unjust situation. I note the fact that the Coach of the complainant said that she HAD to report it up the chain.
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What do you mean she "had" to? There was a gun to her head? She didn't have to do anything.
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09-24-2015, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Then she is still at school, DP ex plays on the woman s basketball team
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Or, she went to UD last year, and is not at UD this year, for whatever reason (graduation, transfer, etc.). Given that she, too, was on a team last year, and it seems she's not on a team this year (IIRC, initial reports stated she was no longer a UD student), it seems as if the list of potential accusers would contain @ 30 or so names, give or take.
But, if "Miss X" doesn't recant, it would seem her name will become public knowledge soon enough, anyway.
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09-24-2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
But, if "Miss X" doesn't recant, it would seem her name will become public knowledge soon enough, anyway.
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Why is that? She could remain anonymous forever.
She was a current student IIRC, she withdrew I thought.
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09-24-2015, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
What do you mean she "had" to? There was a gun to her head? She didn't have to do anything.
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The Clery Act requires reporting any allegation up the chain.
But they didn't have to suspend him.
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09-24-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
What do you mean she "had" to? There was a gun to her head? She didn't have to do anything.
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The decision on whether to report or pursue a sexual assault allegation should not rest with ANY coach. One doesn't ever want to be the senior person with a secret.
Remember the whole Penn State thing?
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09-24-2015, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Or, she went to UD last year, and is not at UD this year, for whatever reason (graduation, transfer, etc.). Given that she, too, was on a team last year, and it seems she's not on a team this year (IIRC, initial reports stated she was no longer a UD student), it seems as if the list of potential accusers would contain @ 30 or so names, give or take.
But, if "Miss X" doesn't recant, it would seem her name will become public knowledge soon enough, anyway.
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Kinda late to say nevermind...I take it all back. If thats the situation now she is liable to have further lawsuits against her
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09-24-2015, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
The Clery Act requires reporting any allegation up the chain.
But they didn't have to suspend him.
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Ah okay. So she did in fact have a gun to her head, the federal variety.
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09-24-2015, 11:03 PM
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Attorney representing the woman accusing Patrick Kane just withdrew in a hastily arranged press conference. Seems clear he figured out the girl was bat**** crazy.
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09-24-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Why is that? She could remain anonymous forever.
She was a current student IIRC, she withdrew I thought.
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Not sure of all the details. I thought I remembered reading that she was no longer on campus. I could be wrong about that.
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09-24-2015, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
Kinda late to say nevermind...I take it all back. If thats the situation now she is liable to have further lawsuits against her
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Could be looking at Slander and/or Defamation of Character, depending on where the situation goes from here.
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09-24-2015, 11:41 PM
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I'm also troubled by one other detail I read somewhere since this whole, sorry, sordid affair came to light. I saw somewhere that Title IX disciplinary committees (of 3-5 members, IIRC) typically have high %s of students on them.
Please tell me that UD did not suspend the star player of its marquee athletic program, for an offense that was deemed by legal authorities to not be a crime, based on a decision reached by a group of 21-year-olds!
If that is the case, then IMHO the inmates truly are running the asylum!
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09-24-2015, 11:46 PM
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There is no reason for anyone to become online sleuth's trying to determine who the complainant is. That is silly and could very easily shine the spotlight on the wrong person. For that matter, the complainant should not become public either.
I'm frustrated mostly with the environment on college campuses that fosters these type of proceedings. Unfortunately, this is not a UD problem. It is pandemic and, frankly, is the direct result of an overzealous and politically correct Federal Dept. of Education.
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09-24-2015, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
The Clery Act requires reporting any allegation up the chain.
But they didn't have to suspend him.
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Clery reporting is only as good as the crime stats given to UD. It includes part I crimes and a couple others to include drug offenses.
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09-24-2015, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
Where is this police report Shocka? Is it available online? The heavy handed Title IX policies are where I lay most of the blame for this unjust situation. I note the fact that the Coach of the complainant said that she HAD to report it up the chain.
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here you go
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09-25-2015, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
I'm also troubled by one other detail I read somewhere since this whole, sorry, sordid affair came to light. I saw somewhere that Title IX disciplinary committees (of 3-5 members, IIRC) typically have high %s of students on them.
Please tell me that UD did not suspend the star player of its marquee athletic program, for an offense that was deemed by legal authorities to not be a crime, based on a decision reached by a group of 21-year-olds!
If that is the case, then IMHO the inmates truly are running the asylum!
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You can always thank the people of my generation for poor decision making skills and lack of common sense. Talking to my peers over the years, it is well deserved. When ever I see stuff like that going down I
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09-25-2015, 03:28 AM
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I read the entire report. Based solely on the report, I do not understand how UD can justify suspending Pierre. Nor do I understand how any tribunal could meet a preponderance of the evidence standard (if that is what the standard is). I feel bad for Pierre and for the alleged victim.
But one thing is clear after reading the incident report, I have serious questions about how UD has handled the case, the adjudication process, and standards used to suspend Pierre.
Btw, I supported the Matt K suspension and had serious qualms about even re-admitting him.
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09-25-2015, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
I read the entire report. Based solely on the report, I do not understand how UD can justify suspending Pierre. Nor do I understand how any tribunal could meet a preponderance of the evidence standard (if that is what the standard is). I feel bad for Pierre and for the alleged victim.
But one thing is clear after reading the incident report, I have serious questions about how UD has handled the case, the adjudication process, and standards used to suspend Pierre.
Btw, I supported the Matt K suspension and had serious qualms about even re-admitting him.
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I think the decision to suspend in light of an absence of a preponderance of evidence is what's leading many to describe the adjudication body as a "kangaroo court". And they're probably right. That's why it's upsetting to me that such a decision could have been left largely in the hands of Dyshawn's fellow students, without some serious and thoughtful oversight on the part of faculty and/or administration. H@!!, UD has a law school! Bring that portion of the University into this process.
Also, I don't know how much influence the threat of Federal pressure had on this specific decision, but I know it does play a part in decisions universities make. Case in point: I had applied for 2 lower-level positions in UD administration back in the mid-80s. I had graduated *** Laude in '84, and had a number of on-campus family connections (including my mom, who was active faculty at the time, and a recently-deceased aunt, who had been very active in alumni relations). I had thought the interview process went well, and given all the circumstances (2 open positions, me being a UD grad with honors, faculty & staff connections), I thought, how could they turn me down? Well, they did. Shortly thereafter, my mom told me the hirees were both female, with 1 being white and the other black. Mom's response was simply that the "equal opportunity" pressure on UD as a recipient of Federal research monies for UDRI was very high, and that the U had to achieve gender and racial balance wherever it could. So, UD did, and I was left on the outside looking in.
At any rate, what we have here is a case of 2 students who did things they should not have done, but there's neither evidence nor undisputed testimony to prove that one student was more "wrong" than the other, yet one student has faced harsh University sanctions while the other has apparently faced no disciplinary action whatsoever. Seems to me to be a serious miscarriage of justice here. I hope that can be rectified quickly.
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09-25-2015, 08:32 AM
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Generally one looks to see who provides more details. You read the statement from the "complainant" it is hard to determine what was going on. DPs statement has a lot more detail and you get a picture of what occurred from his point of view.
Nothing good happens after midnight.
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09-25-2015, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
She probably "felt" it was inappropriate because she felt bad about cheating on her boyfriend.
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First thing I thought after reading the entire report
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09-25-2015, 08:50 AM
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Pierre certainly isn't blameless here but it is pretty clear he committed no crime worthy of a suspension for a semester.
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09-25-2015, 08:59 AM
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The report to me was just a bunch of 1/2 truths... just like any other type of "he said, she said" incident.
My question after reading this is - what did the UD "kangaroo court" deem as a breach of the school's code of conduct?
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09-25-2015, 09:13 AM
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So I read the report, and it was interesting, to say the least.
But, I realized you are all looking at this at the wrong angle.
He didn't get suspended for relations with a drunk female.
He made his beds into a loft! That's against school policy! The girl could have fallen at anytime and gotten hurt! Shame on him.
(Note: This post is sarcasm. None of this is true.)
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09-25-2015, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
So I read the report, and it was interesting, to say the least.
But, I realized you are all looking at this at the wrong angle.
He didn't get suspended for relations with a drunk female.
He made his beds into a loft! That's against school policy! The girl could have fallen at anytime and gotten hurt! Shame on him.
(Note: This post is sarcasm. None of this is true.)
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With the wussification of man these days, they are probably required to have those toddler bed rails on elevated beds....I think you are on to something!!!!
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09-25-2015, 10:48 AM
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IMO, everyone should read that entire incident report in order to get both sides of this story.
I'm very conflicted after reading that.
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09-25-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
IMO, everyone should read that entire incident report in order to get both sides of this story.
I'm very conflicted after reading that.
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Even conflicted, how does the school hand down a punishment in the fashion they did? That's the kicker. If all of us are conflicted on the report, that simply means there are less concrete facts to use in making a determination to remove a kid from campus.
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09-25-2015, 11:31 AM
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the "complainant" had a bunch of opportunities to remove herself from the situation long before the sex. She took none of them. In addition her actions after the fact don't seem like those of a person who has been assaulted. All of her actions are those a person who made a number of poor choices which led to an event that she regretted.
Her name is going to come out and if you do a little digging it is likely not to hard to find out who the person is given the clues in the police report.
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09-25-2015, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
the "complainant" had a bunch of opportunities to remove herself from the situation long before the sex. She took none of them. In addition her actions after the fact don't seem like those of a person who has been assaulted. All of her actions are those a person who made a number of poor choices which led to an event that she regretted.
Her name is going to come out and if you do a little digging it is likely not to hard to find out who the person is given the clues in the police report.
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I just think she was frightened of him, paralyzed by fear, and so she was too scared to leave, fearful of what might happen if she left/tried to leave.
He was too aggressive with her.
And what do you mean by her actions being inconsistent with being assaulted? She went out of her way to avoid him on campus after the encounter, and she even withdrew from school, presumably to get away from him.
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09-25-2015, 12:57 PM
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I was totally 50/50 until the text messages. And those are documented.
I get that people act differently when they're in this situation, but it's hard to understand how someone who was as violated as she claims was so amicable later. I'm sure it happens, can't say I understand since I've never been there.
If there are witnesses to the hugs given days later around campus as well, this is a total BS case to me.
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09-25-2015, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
and she even withdrew from school, presumably to get away from him.
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" I then said to her, why didn't you tell me, if you would have told me this would never have happened if I (n)ew you had a boyfriend. I asked her if she ever cheated on him before and she said no. She then told me that he is the one who gave her the necklace that I complimented her on earlier. She then told me that she was planning to leave the University of Dayton because she was not getting enough playing time in XXXXXX."
Read the report!
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I shaved my balls for this?
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09-25-2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I was totally 50/50 until the text messages. And those are documented.
I get that people act differently when they're in this situation, but it's hard to understand how someone who was as violated as she claims was so amicable later. I'm sure it happens, can't say I understand since I've never been there.
If there are witnesses to the hugs given days later around campus as well, this is a total BS case to me.
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This is the determining point in my view as well. Documented texts to and from the accuser after the alleged incident. Sounds like bs to me. After reading the entire report, Dyshawn is getting SCREWED.
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09-25-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode
This is the determining point in my view as well. Documented texts to and from the accuser after the alleged incident. Sounds like bs to me. After reading the entire report, Dyshawn is getting SCREWED.
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State of mind and timing of state of mind is so important here. How can anybody say that state of mind a month or so later, trumps the state of mind from the time of the event through the following two weeks.
She wasn't upset enough to think she was a victim the day of the event. She was comfortable having friendly texts for at least a week or two after the event. I'm guessing state of mind was there was an event that happened that might not have been a good idea, or, was even an enjoyable event but she felt guilty.
Then, 8 weeks later, she's going back through it in her head and thinking she was forced or taken advantage of into this event. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE and as Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make sense, it didn't happen."
BTW, did anyone see the transcripts of the texts? I didn't see it in the link but I guess I'm just assuming that if the lawyer/DP put it in the report, they would be able to produce it.
Okay, so here's my theory just prior to her being interviewed.
"victim": I'm so afraid my boyfriend will find out and I'm scared I'm going to lose him. I knew I shouldn't
have gone through with it at the time.
"victim"'s friends: So you didn't want to do it?
"victim": Well kind of and kind of not.
"victim"'s friends: Did he make the move on you? Because I know he's a flirt and very touchy feely.
"victim": Yes, he initiated the physical contact.
"victim"s friends: Did you tell him "no"?
"victim": Well, I did kind of tell him that it wasn't a good idea.
"victim"'s friends: And he continued to put the move on you?
"victim": Well, yeah, yeah he did.
"victim"'s friends: Honey, you didn't cheat, you were forced. You better report it and hopefully
your boyfriend is a stand up guy and will understand there was nothing you could
do about it.
"victim": Wow, you're right, thanks ladies for talking this out with me, you always make me see things clearer
feel better. But, I don't know, I just can't see reporting it this late.
"victim"'s friends: Well, don't worry about it, we'll do it since we're obligated to.
Last edited by Smitty10; 09-25-2015 at 03:40 PM..
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09-25-2015, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Then, 8 weeks later, she's going back through it in her head and thinking she was forced or taken advantage of into this event. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE and as Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make sense, it didn't happen."
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I'm not trying to minimize your thoughts here, but it wasn't 8 weeks. The incident occurred on 4/22-23, she told friends on 4/29, and talked to UDPD on 5/5. So, we're talking less than 2 weeks total between incident and UDPD investigation.
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09-25-2015, 03:52 PM
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It appears that majority agree that Pierre did not get a fair trial. I have also heard many current students being frustrated with the outcome. What would the board do if players, coaches, students, fans, other faculty protest their decision?
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09-25-2015, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerNation23
It appears that majority agree that Pierre did not get a fair trial. I have also heard many current students being frustrated with the outcome. What would the board do if players, coaches, students, fans, other faculty protest their decision?
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Nothing you can do, otherwise you undermine the credibility of the process in general. Involve a star athlete and you complicate the process even further. Unfortunately, Dyshawn's course of action is the only viable way to alter the outcome and or change the procedure going forward. Unfortunately time is not on his side as it pertains to playing basketball at the beginning of the season.
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09-25-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R
Nothing you can do, otherwise you undermine the credibility of the process in general. Involve a star athlete and you complicate the process even further. Unfortunately, Dyshawn's course of action is the only viable way to alter the outcome and or change the procedure going forward. Unfortunately time is not on his side as it pertains to playing basketball at the beginning of the season.
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I wonder how many "regular" students have been involved in something like this in the last 4 years?
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09-25-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerNation23
It appears that majority agree that Pierre did not get a fair trial. I have also heard many current students being frustrated with the outcome. What would the board do if players, coaches, students, fans, other faculty protest their decision?
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THIS. Stage some sit-ins. Organize some marches with signs and what not. FREE PIERRE. Get the news involved. If you make a big enough stink the school will do what it has to do to save face.
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09-25-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
I'm not trying to minimize your thoughts here, but it wasn't 8 weeks. The incident occurred on 4/22-23, she told friends on 4/29, and talked to UDPD on 5/5. So, we're talking less than 2 weeks total between incident and UDPD investigation.
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Yes, you're correct. I think with all the dates thrown out there I got confused. Not as long of gap from when her perspective changed. But still, as with the post I was responding to, if those text messages exist that show no ill feelings and actually show some type of positive feelings toward DP, then I say nothing to see here and case closed.
I really hope that the school is working day and night on a resolution here because justice delayed is justice denied, especially in this case where time is of the essence. I'm so afraid though that they are going to stick to their guns on this as long as they can and let the civil courts make the decision for them and the damage will be permanent for them and for DP.
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09-25-2015, 05:02 PM
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Everyone go to your windows, open them up, and shout, "I am as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore."
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09-25-2015, 05:05 PM
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Wow, after reading that report Pierre is the real victim here. Where is the due process? What a crock.....
Here is what I just read.......A young girl feels guilty for cheating on her boyfriend of five years and is afraid he will find out. Like too many in this generation she claims to be a victim rather than taking responsibility for her own actions and decisions.
She climbed up into a lofted bed not just once but twice. If she felt uncomfortible she had many opportunities to leave but again and again she decided to stay the night in his bed.
I think she felt remorse and her "friend" helped to convince her she was some kind of victim. The truth is that she has now ruined a reputation and set back a young man's financial future. How about taking some responsibility for your own decisions and actions?
Last edited by Gem City; 09-25-2015 at 05:40 PM..
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09-25-2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfever
Everyone go to your windows, open them up, and shout, "I am as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore."
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I am mad as hell and will be withholding my annual $1.98 contribution to the "U".
Speak up everyone, right is right and wrong is wrong, but this is ludicrous.
This kind of event and allegation does grave damage to those who truly are victims. Activist will convince all females that they are always victims and not responsible for what happens. Again this waters down claims that are truly legit.
Many are getting their eyes opened for the first time on these type of situations. This is headed down the wrong path....a no win situation for all involved.
Last edited by Avid Flyer; 09-25-2015 at 05:30 PM..
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09-25-2015, 05:29 PM
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FREE WILLY, I mean PIERRE
The more I read the more ****ed I am. Step up UD, do the right thing. At minimum, explain in detail why DyShawn is not on campus and why action such as this was taken. Either fill in the blanks or grow a pair ASAP, as this has the potential to spiral out of control and get super ugly quick!
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09-25-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
I am mad as hell and will be withholding my annual $1.98 contribution to the "U".
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I am drinking water out of the fountain at games this year and smuggling in my own snacks. No beer money from me!
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09-25-2015, 05:38 PM
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Apparently all you need to do to ruin a young man's future is to file an accusation. Where is the evidence? Where is the due process? Can you really be declare guilty of violating some kind of honor code based on the word of one person? The Gestapo think this is a show trial. Guilty till proven innocent....
Last edited by Gem City; 09-25-2015 at 05:52 PM..
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09-25-2015, 06:21 PM
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All of us season ticket holders could make a stink asbwell.
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09-25-2015, 06:26 PM
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Where do I leave a pile?
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09-25-2015, 09:03 PM
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I know of attorneys familiar with the college title ix tribunals who tell their sons to get a signed statement and a cell phone video giving consent before proceeding.
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09-26-2015, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
....I had graduated *** Laude in '84....[/i][/size]
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It stinks that you got treated like that but I must point out the hilarious auto-censoring.
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09-26-2015, 02:44 AM
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Who do we send out complaints to? Let's unify!
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09-26-2015, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
It stinks that you got treated like that but I must point out the hilarious auto-censoring.
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Yeah, when I posted it and went back to check it, I saw that and said "WHAT THE...oh, yeah..." 😄
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09-26-2015, 01:16 PM
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I propose that upset fans boycott the first exhibition game in protest and support of Pierre. Would enjoy the look on folks faces when they see an empty arena.
I think Pierre is the victim here . . by the accuser and by the University and I am appalled.
And, UDPriders, to many of you who might be surprised, I am a woman. And this type of false accusation based on remorse for a bad decision in life hurts all women who are truly rape victims.
Last edited by GoFlyer; 09-26-2015 at 01:38 PM..
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09-26-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
I propose that upset fans boycott the first exhibition game in protest and support of Pierre. Would enjoy the look on folks faces when they see an empty arena.
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The other options is to chant We want Pierre during every timeout.
I sure hope more FACTS come out between now and the first exhibition game, and hopefully this entire issue has been resolved (and DP is back with the team and playing)
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09-26-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
The other options is to chant We want Pierre during every timeout.
I sure hope more FACTS come out between now and the first exhibition game, and hopefully this entire issue has been resolved (and DP is back with the team and playing)
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You know, it just occurred to me that I have been opening this topic everyday hoping there's some progress in the exoneration of DP. It also just occurred to me that there's probably no wheels in motion to even progress with. The members of this site seem to have progressed in their knowledge of the situation and swung to almost 100 percent support of DP. But this board is a very small percentage of the UD fan base. Most aren't trying to dig up the report. Most are probably taking the position that the U suspended him and they must have good reason to.
So, with that, I'm now back to the reality that the University plans on doing nothing other than prepare for and wait for the conclusion of the civil lawsuit and have no interest in expediting the situation. And they may actually fight tooth and nail to justify the suspension.
When the story first broke, I had no hope for DP. When I watched the progression of this site, my hope had risen. Now with my realization that it's just us, who've taken the time try and dig up the facts of the case, my hope is about gone. Is there anyone who knows for a fact that the university is open to reverse their position anytime soon or if the civil lawsuit might be quickly resolved in time for DP to have a chance to play prior to December 22?
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09-26-2015, 04:03 PM
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Most administrators are far more worried about being politically correct than doing the right thing. That was how this happened in the first place.
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09-26-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
The members of this site seem to have progressed in their knowledge of the situation and swung to almost 100 percent support of DP. But this board is a very small percentage of the UD fan base. Most aren't trying to dig up the report. Most are probably taking the position that the U suspended him and they must have good reason to.
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I understand your point, but this board is a pretty good representation of UD fans...if you were to survey this board and most active members participated, it would be a very significant statistical survey. That being said, UDP is a pretty good barometer.
I also state this as I ran across a handful of fans at my kids ballgame today...none of which are on UDP or vocal on any other "blog". They had the same opinions of many on here, and there information was taken from other reports...not blogs or boards.
The average fan also doesn't have the insight that a handful of people on here do...with insider information, etc...UD doesn't have a fence built around it where information stays put between involved parties. There are tons of leaks, and some people happen to come across that info at a pretty good pace. I received calls from people not on boards that had plenty of info...I wouldn't get too confident that the opinions on here don't represent a good portion of the fanbase.
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09-26-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I understand your point, but this board is a pretty good representation of UD fans...if you were to survey this board and most active members participated, it would be a very significant statistical survey. That being said, UDP is a pretty good barometer.
I also state this as I ran across a handful of fans at my kids ballgame today...none of which are on UDP or vocal on any other "blog". They had the same opinions of many on here, and there information was taken from other reports...not blogs or boards.
The average fan also doesn't have the insight that a handful of people on here do...with insider information, etc...UD doesn't have a fence built around it where information stays put between involved parties. There are tons of leaks, and some people happen to come across that info at a pretty good pace. I received calls from people not on boards that had plenty of info...I wouldn't get too confident that the opinions on here don't represent a good portion of the fanbase.
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That's good to know. Do you think it represents significant pressure that will fall on the school to do the right thing and to do it quickly? From what you know do you think there's a chance that the school is still looking at this and might reverse their decision anytime soon? That's really where I was going with this. Nothing I've seen indicates there's hope other than there doesn't seem to be a significant split on whether the decision was the correct one with the fans of this site. You've now told me that it goes beyond this site. Does that mean there's significant reason for hope?
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09-26-2015, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Most administrators are far more worried about being politically correct than doing the right thing. That was how this happened in the first place.
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I doubt many on here would ever think about turning it on but South Park did an episode two Wednesdays ago about this exact topic and was spot on. Everyone trying to be PC and missing the bigger picture, ie. everyone having a different opinion or in this case right vs wrong
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09-26-2015, 04:43 PM
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How is Peirre case any different that Dez Weels, Rasheed Sulaimon? Seems like Maryland might be the early favorite to land Peirre? Looks like they love to absorb Sexual Assualt players from other schools...
http://www.sbnation.com/college-bask...ng-to-maryland
I bet Jalen Reynolds was involved in something very simliair to Peirre. Only difference is that X learned from Dez and kept this issue in house. Jalen is still on the team and will be playing for X. http://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2...report-assault
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09-26-2015, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Most administrators are far more worried about being politically correct than doing the right thing. That was how this happened in the first place.
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Okay, I agree with this. However, what happens when what someone deems politically correct turns out to not be politically correct? What is the definition of "politically correct" when it comes to the administrators in this situation? What group are they trying to be politically correct to? I would think it would be to their supporters right? If their supporters that feel that this was the correct thing to do is under 50 percent, how can that be politically correct?
I'm not saying being politically correct is the right thing to do, I'm saying that if that's what they were shooting for, they might have missed terribly anyway. So do they now make another conflicting politically correct decision?
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09-26-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
That's good to know. Do you think it represents significant pressure that will fall on the school to do the right thing and to do it quickly? From what you know do you think there's a chance that the school is still looking at this and might reverse their decision anytime soon? That's really where I was going with this. Nothing I've seen indicates there's hope other than there doesn't seem to be a significant split on whether the decision was the correct one with the fans of this site. You've now told me that it goes beyond this site. Does that mean there's significant reason for hope?
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I think that DP's legal team will be the one to turn up the pressure. I also agree that UD will stand ground. The statement was made to me today regarding the Dez Wells incident and him getting paid. Not to say that Dez got enough money to retire on...but if you were to tell a kid that he is going to get a pretty decent chunk of change...and you can go elsewhere and get a full season to play and still get a degree...I think he beats feet.
I hope I am wrong, as I think DP is a fine player and I have had positive contacts with him. But I just can't see him willing to give up an 1/8 of a college career on a bad decision by an administration. He can sit out a year and get an entire 4 years...or leave and get an entire 4 years...
Unfortunately the pressure that the average season ticket holder and moderate donor can place on a university is minuscule. If the important folks make waves...who knows. UD is pot committed right now...no way they pull back the reigns. You can't call re-do when the national media has a story....I think the basketball team moves on without him...and UD is in a position where they need to be careful not to alienate AM.
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09-26-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I think that DP's legal team will be the one to turn up the pressure. I also agree that UD will stand ground. The statement was made to me today regarding the Dez Wells incident and him getting paid. Not to say that Dez got enough money to retire on...but if you were to tell a kid that he is going to get a pretty decent chunk of change...and you can go elsewhere and get a full season to play and still get a degree...I think he beats feet.
I hope I am wrong, as I think DP is a fine player and I have had positive contacts with him. But I just can't see him willing to give up an 1/8 of a college career on a bad decision by an administration. He can sit out a year and get an entire 4 years...or leave and get an entire 4 years...
Unfortunately the pressure that the average season ticket holder and moderate donor can place on a university is minuscule. If the important folks make waves...who knows. UD is pot committed right now...no way they pull back the reigns. You can't call re-do when the national media has a story....I think the basketball team moves on without him...and UD is in a position where they need to be careful not to alienate AM.
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Thanks for that. Everything you said is what I was afraid of. And as you said that you cant' see DP giving up 1/8 of a year on a bad decision, I'm afraid I can't see Archie giving up more than one more year of not moving up the ranks of basketball programs due to the same bad decision. I think the alienation of our great coach has already taken place. And because of the possible loss of AM and not so much DP, is where my hope that the more significant donors would jump in. But that would include only those that take men's basketball program seriously enough.
Last edited by Smitty10; 09-26-2015 at 05:51 PM..
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09-26-2015, 05:50 PM
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when DP lawyered up I saw two outcomes
1) UD caves and he comes back immediately
2) UD does not cave and he finished his career elsewhere
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09-26-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
when DP lawyered up I saw two outcomes
1) UD caves and he comes back immediately
2) UD does not cave and he finished his career elsewhere
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Can you make those compound outcomes and add "... and Archie Miller decides to ..." onto each?
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09-26-2015, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
when DP lawyered up I saw two outcomes
1) UD caves and he comes back immediately
2) UD does not cave and he finished his career elsewhere
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Now we have to define "immediately"...
UD reneges...
1. Everyone is a happy camper sans the "victim"...she files a civil suit?
2. Nothing happens as it is civil and victim voluntarily left...UD assumes no liability in protecting a "victim"
3. Victim advocates lose their mind and UD has to deal with the fallout?
UD stands firm..
1. DP moves forward with appeal and possible civil suit...reinstated...too late...he leaves
2. DP packs his bags and the courts figure it out...he gets paid
3. DP takes it and comes back in December
Fill in the blanks...way too many variables...but I don't see a big dog attorney taking a case only for UD to cave without getting paid...
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09-26-2015, 06:02 PM
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I really don't think UD is worried about a civil suit. They are worried about the Feds showing up on campus and investigating they university like they did at XU.
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09-26-2015, 06:10 PM
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I posted this elsewhere, but I don't see retaining the attorney as a bad thing. Realistically, there is just no practical way UD could "cave" and retain any shred of remaining credibility (meaning for all future and past disciplinary hearings - if they were to go back, every single ruling ever is up for scrutiny/review/etc and it would be a total free for all rather than one high profile total screwup). I'd guess UD is secretly hoping for a court to rule in favor of Dyshawn with some emergency injunction. That way, it's as close to a win-win as could be salvaged from this cluster-f.
So it depends on how you view retaining the attorney. I don't see it as a bad thing. I haven't seen anywhere that he is suing UD, just that he's trying to get back on the court. I think Pierre wants to clear his name and return to UD. Along those lines, it isn't actually 1/8 of his career. I'm not minimizing the damage this has done and may continue to do, but it's closer to 1/12 or 1/13 when you take 10 games away. It's about 1/3 of this season, maybe less if you add in postseason games. Again, not to minimize it, but 1/8 isn't really accurate.
My optimistic prediction: emergency injunction granted on Wed. Pierre back in school Thursday. Couple admins lose their jobs. Archie is still going to be (rightfully) angry, but he knows it's the university, not the athletic department, at fault here. Pierre comes back fired up and leads us to the NCAA tournament.
Pessimistic prediction: nothing is able to be done in time, but Pierre comes back on 12/22, attorneys essentially clear him, he gets some restitution from UD, and he ends up only missing 10 games. Remember that Dez Wells had three more years; Pierre has one so he isn't looking to leave.
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09-26-2015, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
Along those lines, it isn't actually 1/8 of his career. I'm not minimizing the damage this has done and may continue to do, but it's closer to 1/12 or 1/13 when you take 10 games away. It's about 1/3 of this season, maybe less if you add in postseason games. Again, not to minimize it, but 1/8 isn't really accurate
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4 out of 3 people are bad at math.
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09-26-2015, 07:54 PM
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Flyers have played 104 games in DP's first 3 years. Assume that we play 33 games this year. Losing 10 games would be 7.29927 per cent of his career, Give or take a 100,000th percent. close enough for government work.
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09-26-2015, 08:32 PM
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I want to make clear WHY I am appalled . . . .and it is not because the basketball team might lose some games or not make a tournament. It is that this is an absolute injustice to a young man which has tarnished his name and has a grave impact on his future. Because two people caused the situation and only one is being punished, and because the University abdicated its responsibility to a student body who did not have the training, experience, wisdom or appropriate power and in a process that was at best seriously flawed. I do not think Pierre will come back to UD ever again. I think the university is going to pay out a lot of money for damage done to this young man without appropriate due process.
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09-26-2015, 09:04 PM
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One problem I have not seen mentioned is the number of classes DP has missed already. Isn't there still a rule that says if you miss more than a certain number of classes in a semester it means a mandatory F? The max used to be twice the number of times the class meets per week.
Can DP be enrolled this semester, say a month from now, and qualify for the first 10 games but get mandatory F's this semester and then not be eligible for next semester due to grades?
Seems like if he is going to play this semester this needs to be resolved soon and he has to be back in the classroom within a week.
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09-26-2015, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter
One problem I have not seen mentioned is the number of classes DP has missed already. Isn't there still a rule that says if you miss more than a certain number of classes in a semester it means a mandatory F? The max used to be twice the number of times the class meets per week.
Can DP be enrolled this semester, say a month from now, and qualify for the first 10 games but get mandatory F's this semester and then not be eligible for next semester due to grades?
Seems like if he is going to play this semester this needs to be resolved soon and he has to be back in the classroom within a week.
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He was on campus two weeks ago today....so if he was on campus... I don't know when he was removed...if he was removed...he wouldn't have been there two weekends ago...
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09-26-2015, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter
One problem I have not seen mentioned is the number of classes DP has missed already. Isn't there still a rule that says if you miss more than a certain number of classes in a semester it means a mandatory F? The max used to be twice the number of times the class meets per week.
Can DP be enrolled this semester, say a month from now, and qualify for the first 10 games but get mandatory F's this semester and then not be eligible for next semester due to grades?
Seems like if he is going to play this semester this needs to be resolved soon and he has to be back in the classroom within a week.
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There were some classes I only showed up to take a test or turn a paper in. If he hasn't missed required coursework he would be fine
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09-26-2015, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
I want to make clear WHY I am appalled . . . .and it is not because the basketball team might lose some games or not make a tournament. It is that this is an absolute injustice to a young man which has tarnished his name and has a grave impact on his future. Because two people caused the situation and only one is being punished, and because the University abdicated its responsibility to a student body who did not have the training, experience, wisdom or appropriate power and in a process that was at best seriously flawed. I do not think Pierre will come back to UD ever again. I think the university is going to pay out a lot of money for damage done to this young man without appropriate due process.
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GoFlyer, I know I'm not alone in saying that I hope your prediction regarding Pierre's return to UD is wrong. That said, I agree with every other part of this post.
2 people showed extremely poor judgment. One left school voluntarily, and the other is getting twice the punishment that the two of them combined deserved.
And I think your phrase " the University abdicated its responsibility" is a great choice of words. I've gotten more and more appalled since the news surfaced, that a body comprised largely of students could take such a rash step against someone who had been, as far as I know, in no great trouble, for ANY reason, since setting foot on campus 3 years ago. Add-in the high profile of the men's basketball program, and this was a case that certainly deserved a high level of University oversight. Instead, we get an "executive" decision that is reminiscent of the old west ("We're gonna give you a fair trial, and then we're gonna execute you.").
I usually reserve my prayers for those who are truly suffering in life (the sick, the poor, the hungry), but I am praying that justice will truly be done (and be done swiftly) in this case. This is a travesty of "justice".
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09-27-2015, 12:04 AM
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One thing I might have missed in all this - do we know for sure whether DP was expelled for the semester by UD or did he leave on his own in disgust? All I read was that he is "no longer enrolled".
If the charges are dropped, can the school reverse the expulsion, or would they have to beg him to please come back?
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09-27-2015, 12:54 AM
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Anyone mentioning names on here or suggesting names by process of elimination prior to affected parties publicly releasing names or the courts releasing names will be booted from the site. No passing Go. No collecting $200.
Free sites at www.blogger.com if you want to risk your own liability.
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09-27-2015, 08:02 AM
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As alluded to in several Posts, UD's decision to suspend or expel DP for a semester may in large part reflect the current obsession among Academicians, the Media and the Federal Government of a pervasive "rape culture" on college campuses. A timely Op Ed on this subject appears in today's NY Post and references a "sexual conduct study" by Harvard that sheds some light on how these "surveys" are compiled and progressive thinking on this matter.
http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/the-myt...-rape-culture/
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09-27-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt
I posted this elsewhere, but I don't see retaining the attorney as a bad thing. Realistically, there is just no practical way UD could "cave" and retain any shred of remaining credibility (meaning for all future and past disciplinary hearings - if they were to go back, every single ruling ever is up for scrutiny/review/etc and it would be a total free for all rather than one high profile total screwup). I'd guess UD is secretly hoping for a court to rule in favor of Dyshawn with some emergency injunction. That way, it's as close to a win-win as could be salvaged from this cluster-f.
So it depends on how you view retaining the attorney. I don't see it as a bad thing. I haven't seen anywhere that he is suing UD, just that he's trying to get back on the court. I think Pierre wants to clear his name and return to UD. Along those lines, it isn't actually 1/8 of his career. I'm not minimizing the damage this has done and may continue to do, but it's closer to 1/12 or 1/13 when you take 10 games away. It's about 1/3 of this season, maybe less if you add in postseason games. Again, not to minimize it, but 1/8 isn't really accurate.
My optimistic prediction: emergency injunction granted on Wed. Pierre back in school Thursday. Couple admins lose their jobs. Archie is still going to be (rightfully) angry, but he knows it's the university, not the athletic department, at fault here. Pierre comes back fired up and leads us to the NCAA tournament.
Pessimistic prediction: nothing is able to be done in time, but Pierre comes back on 12/22, attorneys essentially clear him, he gets some restitution from UD, and he ends up only missing 10 games. Remember that Dez Wells had three more years; Pierre has one so he isn't looking to leave.
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SPOT ON!
I do not think DP wants to gain financially from this. He wants to clear his name and play basketball. That said, Ginsberg may feel (in his professional opinion) that some form of a lawsuit with a dollar figure attached to it is the prudent course of action in this situation - we'll see. I see at least 2 ways DP gets to play from day one.
- All parties get in a conference room, discuss what is involved in proceeding in a public forum and the complainant decides to reverse previous claims and UD has an out to reinstate DP. No lawsuits filed.
- Ginsberg looks at all similar previous incidents and determines that DP was treated differently and gets a temporary injunction from UD while matter is reviewed. No lawsuits filed at this point.
I'm guessing that we will have new details or decisions from either UD or Ginsberg by next Friday that are good for another 150+ posts.
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09-27-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
"I then said to her, why didn't you tell me, if you would have told me this would never have happened if I (n)ew you had a boyfriend. I asked her if she ever cheated on him before and she said no. She then told me that he is the one who gave her the necklace that I complimented her on earlier. She then told me that she was planning to leave the University of Dayton because she was not getting enough playing time in XXXXXX."
Read the report!
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That could be part of it, but I am guessing that part of it is also wanting to get away from him/get away from the situation/UD.
People that are sexually assaulted don't always behave rationally before, after, or during the incident.
Well, I see that I seem to be in the extreme minority here defending the woman.
That is just my honest opinion. After I read the incident report, I just honestly found her side of the story to be more believable than his side of the story. Although, I agree that her behavior at times did seem illogical and/or irrational.
Her friends calling him too touchy/grabby/hands-on IMO alludes to his over-aggressiveness.
The fact that she lived in the same building with him made this a difficult situation for her IMO.
I just think she was frightened of him and paralyzed by fear.
I wouldn't be upset if DP never played for UD again.
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09-27-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
As alluded to in several Posts, UD's decision to suspend or expel DP for a semester may in large part reflect the current obsession among Academicians, the Media and the Federal Government of a pervasive "rape culture" on college campuses. A timely Op Ed on this subject appears in today's NY Post and references a "sexual conduct study" by Harvard that sheds some light on how these "surveys" are compiled and progressive thinking on this matter.
http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/the-myt...-rape-culture/
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The military has gone 100% bat schise crazy on this.
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09-27-2015, 11:13 AM
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How about the texting back and forth and her response, come on . I read the report not once but twice. I have heard that some students think DP was setup
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09-27-2015, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick
The military has gone 100% bat schise crazy on this.
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I've taken 3 lectures and 2 YouTube videos on sexual assault the past 3-4 months because they are going crazy. Almost everytime the one common denominator is drinking. Maybe we should tell people if they cant handle alcohol dont drink
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09-27-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
...The heavy handed Title IX policies are where I lay most of the blame for this unjust situation. I note the fact that the Coach of the complainant said that she HAD to report it up the chain.
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Agree completely, UDEE79. Let's just suppose the young woman wanted merely to give Pierre "a slight correction" by reporting the incident to University authorities. She might have been thinking Pierrre would get something along the lines of University probation and a 2-3 game suspension. Then, along comes Title IX, with a predominantly-student review board, and the next thing you know, Pierre gets the equivalent of a 10-year sentence. She may not have meant for the punishment to be that severe, but once it came under the auspices of Title IX...
Just a possibility.
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09-27-2015, 12:19 PM
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There are two things at play here. Was a crime committed - well no charges will be brought. Was the student code of conduct violated? That answer is unequivocally yes as the code has been explained to me. Set up, not set up, consensual - it doesn't matter. ANY alcohol consumption AND sexual relations in combination IS a violation of the code of conduct. The code presumes ANY alcohol consumption makes informed consent impossible.
So, arguing code of conduct, or the process to convict on code of conduct, is pretty much impossible to litigate. Both parties public statement in the police report freely admit violating the code of conduct.
Question is whether the punushment is proportionate to the violation.
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09-27-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
There are two things at play here. Was a crime committed - well no charges will be brought. Was the student code of conduct violated? That answer is unequivocally yes as the code has been explained to me. Set up, not set up, consensual - it doesn't matter. ANY alcohol consumption AND sexual relations in combination IS a violation of the code of conduct. The code presumes ANY alcohol consumption makes informed consent impossible.
So, arguing code of conduct, or the process to convict on code of conduct, is pretty much impossible to litigate. Both parties public statement in the police report freely admit violating the code of conduct.
Question is whether the punushment is proportionate to the violation.
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I understand what you are saying, so if true, was the female also punished?
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09-27-2015, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
I understand what you are saying, so if true, was the female also punished?
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As I understand it she left UD by choice, no punishment as she left before the student board could do their thing.
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09-27-2015, 03:14 PM
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Correct. She apparently is no longer a student so she wouldn't be subject to such discipline.
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09-27-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
ANY alcohol consumption AND sexual relations in combination IS a violation of the code of conduct. The code presumes ANY alcohol consumption makes informed consent impossible.
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Not saying it is right, but this is 2015, and from stories I hear from my son, nephew, and a few of their college age friends, if this code is enforced for everyone, 90% of the students at most colleges would be kicked off campus.
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09-27-2015, 03:47 PM
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I am sure that is true. But they are not going out looking for offenses but reacting to what is reported.
But I have had several tell me, including current students, tell me the code says any alcohol nullifies the ability to consent. If so both parties freely admitted violations of the code of conduct. The suspension is based on that violation, not whether or not a crime was committed.
Given the likely frequency of the violation one can question the severity of punishment. But are there other factors influencing the severity - zero tolerance for basketball, prior offenses, preponderance of witnesses, etc. I have no idea.
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